Free Agent Contracts...

[mjt328]

I think most of us are finally coming to grips with the high probability that Andy Levitre will no longer be a Buffalo Bill in a couple weeks. Only a year after FINALLY stabalizing the offensive line, we will once again have a gaping hole that needs to be filled.

This is exactly why it's so important for us to draft well, and why it's a direct indictment of how poorly Nix has done in adding talent through the draft.


I have no problem with us being a big player in free agency, and I was a big supporter of the Mario Williams signing last year. But in today's NFL, a team absolutely CANNOT afford to pay for high-priced free agents year after year. A team can pay big for maybe 3 or 4 players, but after that, they MUST get cheap production out of young players who are still on their first contracts.

We did a great job of locking up Stevie and Fred last year. We paid big for Mario and Mark Anderson. But as one can see... we are already paying the price by creating holes elsewhere on the roster. Levitre is the first casualty. But he certaintly won't be the last. Before long, players like Wood, Spiller and Dareus will be free agents. Byrd is only on a franchise tag and still doesn't have a long term deal. Mario's contract continues to escalate every season, making it tougher and tougher to retain our other good players.

As I mentioned in another thread, Nix has only managed to add a starter or two through the draft each year. And NONE of them have been late round finds. Although finding positions like quarterback, cornerback and left tackle can be tough late in the draft - there are LOTS of starters found on the interior offensive line, at linebacker and safety in rounds 4-5. Nix hasn't managed to find even ONE decent player after the second or third round. That is extremely alarming. I can't blame our front office if they don't want to pay $7-9 million per year for a guard. But we SHOULD already have drafted a replacement for Levitre who was ready to play. Going into this draft, we already have holes at QB, WR, LB and S - at the very least. Next year, you can probably add C to that list.


I'm not saying all this as another criticism of Nix. I'm saying this as a warning to anyone who gets excited about potential progress being made with this team. We have a VERY LONG way to go. A team cannot have drafts like our last three and really expect to compete. Because eventually the salary cap catches up to us and we HAVE to let people walk. Unfortunately, we've done a terrible job at filling those spots with cheaper young talent.

[YardRat]

But we SHOULD already have drafted a replacement for Levitre who was ready to play.

Maybe that guy is Rhinehart, and they'll pick up a G in the draft or see if Snow is ready for regular duty.

[Night Train]

Or they'll draft one of those Blue chip LT's ( Fisher, Johnson, Joeckel ) and kick Glenn inside. They'll cost 1/3 of what Levitre will get and we can sign a couple vet FA starters with the savings.

I'd rather just keep Levitre all things being equal...but they're not & the Bills have far too many other holes.

Welcome to the salary cap. Other teams do the same thing. Honest.

[fluteflakes]

Or they'll draft one of those Blue chip LT's ( Fisher, Johnson, Joeckel ) and kick Glenn inside. They'll cost 1/3 of what Levitre will get and we can sign a couple vet FA starters with the savings.

I'd rather just keep Levitre all things being equal...but they're not & the Bills have far too many other holes.

Welcome to the salary cap. Other teams do the same thing. Honest.

The Ravens are soon to be sans a MLB with any NFL experience at all. The Falcons cut a couple of very key contributors because they couldn't fit them in the cap.

It sucks, but that's the way football is nowadays. Can't keep everybody.

[YardRat]

The Ravens are soon to be sans a MLB with any NFL experience at all. The Falcons cut a couple of very key contributors because they couldn't fit them in the cap.

It sucks, but that's the way football is nowadays. Can't keep everybody.

You don't think they'll make a hard effort to keep Ellerbe? Not a 'true' MLB I know, but...

[fluteflakes]

I think they make an effort. But reports are he's asking around the 25-30 million range. And I don't think Ozzie is willing to put that much down on him.

I think he stays, but I'm not 100% on that. He was more just a general example.

[EDS]

The Ravens are soon to be sans a MLB with any NFL experience at all. The Falcons cut a couple of very key contributors because they couldn't fit them in the cap.

It sucks, but that's the way football is nowadays. Can't keep everybody.

It is a lot easier to swallow that pill when your team is a winner; much different when your team sucks and you are forced to bleed talent.

[Buddo]

It's something all teams have to deal with. Doesn't matter whether you are a 'winner' or not.
Rinehart, assuming we re-sign him, is a very capable guard, and probably a superior run-blocker to Levitre.
At likely half the price.
Levitre is a very good pass protector, but if you don't have a decent QB to protect, then worrying overmuch about that, doesn't make so much sense.

The bottom line will be that what the Bills want to pay Levitre, will not be near enough what someone else can. Agents will always push for their clients to go where they will be paid most, as the agent gets the most out of it also.

If a player actually truly wants to stay with a team, they can do all sorts of things to make that happen. Levitre might only get, for example, $5 million a year from the Bills, but he could, if he was sensible about it, try and get the majority of it guaranteed, hence giving the Bills a 'discount', while also ensuring his own future. 5 years, $25 million, with $20 million guaranteed.

Tbh, I don't know why more guys don't actually go down that route, as much of the time, they don't end up getting half of what the deal supposedly was for in the first place. Seems to me as though these professional athletes, can't see beyond having the biggest numbers, rather than what actually will constitute the best deal for their futures.

[BillsFever21]

I think most of us are finally coming to grips with the high probability that Andy Levitre will no longer be a Buffalo Bill in a couple weeks. Only a year after FINALLY stabalizing the offensive line, we will once again have a gaping hole that needs to be filled.

This is exactly why it's so important for us to draft well, and why it's a direct indictment of how poorly Nix has done in adding talent through the draft.


I have no problem with us being a big player in free agency, and I was a big supporter of the Mario Williams signing last year. But in today's NFL, a team absolutely CANNOT afford to pay for high-priced free agents year after year. A team can pay big for maybe 3 or 4 players, but after that, they MUST get cheap production out of young players who are still on their first contracts.

We did a great job of locking up Stevie and Fred last year. We paid big for Mario and Mark Anderson. But as one can see... we are already paying the price by creating holes elsewhere on the roster. Levitre is the first casualty. But he certaintly won't be the last. Before long, players like Wood, Spiller and Dareus will be free agents. Byrd is only on a franchise tag and still doesn't have a long term deal. Mario's contract continues to escalate every season, making it tougher and tougher to retain our other good players.

As I mentioned in another thread, Nix has only managed to add a starter or two through the draft each year. And NONE of them have been late round finds. Although finding positions like quarterback, cornerback and left tackle can be tough late in the draft - there are LOTS of starters found on the interior offensive line, at linebacker and safety in rounds 4-5. Nix hasn't managed to find even ONE decent player after the second or third round. That is extremely alarming. I can't blame our front office if they don't want to pay $7-9 million per year for a guard. But we SHOULD already have drafted a replacement for Levitre who was ready to play. Going into this draft, we already have holes at QB, WR, LB and S - at the very least. Next year, you can probably add C to that list.


I'm not saying all this as another criticism of Nix. I'm saying this as a warning to anyone who gets excited about potential progress being made with this team. We have a VERY LONG way to go. A team cannot have drafts like our last three and really expect to compete. Because eventually the salary cap catches up to us and we HAVE to let people walk. Unfortunately, we've done a terrible job at filling those spots with cheaper young talent.

I agree with everything except for the extension of Fred Jackson being a great move. There wasn't any urgency or really any need to give him a raise with Spiller on the roster after just proving that he can be the lead back. Basically the 7 million dollars a year we are paying Jackson who hasn't been able to finish a season in two years would've paid to be able to keep Levitre AND Byrd around. One could've had an extension and then the other one could've been franchise tagged. Jackson was still under contract till after this season and they jumped the gun coming off an injury nonetheless.

Spiller is and should be the main guy so that means we are paying 7 million dollars a year for a compliment to him. That was a horrible extension and was mostly done out of courtesy. Would you rather have Levitre or a 32 year old Jackson right now? That answer is so easy from most people's perspective that is should be a rhetorical question.

Our line was stabilized and the strength of the team last year. Spiller had gaping holes to run through and even proved he could run between the tackles. A lot of that success was from the job Levitre was doing inside opening up holes and giving Spiller room to run. Sure guards can be replaced but if it was that easy then everybody would have a good guard and there would hardly be any guards being drafted in the 1st or 2nd round and getting contract extensions. Everybody would just wait until the middle rounds and they wouldn't resign them unless the top price was 5 million a year.

Especially with a rookie QB being drafted in the 1st or 2nd round this season his best friend would be a great running game and good pass protection ahead of him. Now all we did is create one more hole on a team that already has a ton of holes and whoever we replace him with won't be as good. Then once Woods goes down for his yearly injury our OL will definitely have a gaping hole in it and before you know it Cordy Glenn will be the only real starting caliber player on the OL.

We finally draft some good players and then the Bills let them walk. For years we were always wishing that we had good draftees that we could re-sign and build a team around. When we finally get one who has been one of our best and most consistent players who have also stayed healthy his entire career we just let him walk. That means we end up having to draft a replacement that could've went to one of our other holes or adding depth and that player still won't be as good as Levitre was.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I agree with everything except for the extension of Fred Jackson being a great move. There wasn't any urgency or really any need to give him a raise with Spiller on the roster after just proving that he can be the lead back. Basically the 7 million dollars a year we are paying Jackson who hasn't been able to finish a season in two years would've paid to be able to keep Levitre AND Byrd around. One could've had an extension and then the other one could've been franchise tagged. Jackson was still under contract till after this season and they jumped the gun coming off an injury nonetheless.

Spiller is and should be the main guy so that means we are paying 7 million dollars a year for a compliment to him. That was a horrible extension and was mostly done out of courtesy. Would you rather have Levitre or a 32 year old Jackson right now? That answer is so easy from most people's perspective that is should be a rhetorical question.

Our line was stabilized and the strength of the team last year. Spiller had gaping holes to run through and even proved he could run between the tackles. A lot of that success was from the job Levitre was doing inside opening up holes and giving Spiller room to run. Sure guards can be replaced but if it was that easy then everybody would have a good guard and there would hardly be any guards being drafted in the 1st or 2nd round and getting contract extensions. Everybody would just wait until the middle rounds and they wouldn't resign them unless the top price was 5 million a year.

Especially with a rookie QB being drafted in the 1st or 2nd round this season his best friend would be a great running game and good pass protection ahead of him. Now all we did is create one more hole on a team that already has a ton of holes and whoever we replace him with won't be as good. Then once Woods goes down for his yearly injury our OL will definitely have a gaping hole in it and before you know it Cordy Glenn will be the only real starting caliber player on the OL.

We finally draft some good players and then the Bills let them walk. For years we were always wishing that we had good draftees that we could re-sign and build a team around. When we finally get one who has been one of our best and most consistent players who have also stayed healthy his entire career we just let him walk. That means we end up having to draft a replacement that could've went to one of our other holes or adding depth and that player still won't be as good as Levitre was.

Woah woah woah Jackson's contract isn't even remotely close to seven million a year. If he gets cut next year (and he might), he'll barely have made 7 million total (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/fred-jackson/).

Now, I agree that Jackson's deal was not good a good risk from a strict $ for production sense, but he is a respected locker room guy and never had any real chance to earn on his previous deals. It was a good gesture to a classy player. I think we have to build a rep as a franchise that is good to their own, because we certainly don't have the market or the titles to treat players like New England and expect anyone to come here.

[BillsFever21]

Or they'll draft one of those Blue chip LT's ( Fisher, Johnson, Joeckel ) and kick Glenn inside. They'll cost 1/3 of what Levitre will get and we can sign a couple vet FA starters with the savings.

I'd rather just keep Levitre all things being equal...but they're not & the Bills have far too many other holes.

Welcome to the salary cap. Other teams do the same thing. Honest.

Sure every team has to make decisions but when you have a team like Buffalo who hasn't been good in years and hardly has any draftees that are on their second contract then it just goes to show how bad this front office and organization is if they can't even afford to keep one of the few good players they drafted.

Others comparing them to the Falcons, Ravens and others who had to make cap moves isn't a good comparison. They have been building a team for years and finally might have to let some of them go. In the case of the Falcons they are not going to miss Turner very much. He is getting old and his production wasn't nearly what is was a couple years ago. The Bills they give 3 year extensions for 7 million a year to 32 year old RB's when they already have a good one though.

The Bills are the only team not to make the playoffs this century and yet they have to make cap cutting moves and get rid of good players to achieve it. That's just horrible cap management and horrible contracts signed to players like Fitzpatrick, way overpaying for Williams, extensions to 32 year old RB's, 4 million a year for a guys like Brad Smith who sees a few snaps a game if he is lukcy and also giving extensions to marginal starters/backups like Urbik and Moats when they could've drafted guys in the 6th round to fill that spot.

The list of bad moves go on and on and by reports that I've seen around here the Bills are still in the Top 10 in salary cap space in the NFL. Bad signings like listed above and bad cap management have lead to this and we haven't even had a winning season.

[Ed]

It's something all teams have to deal with. Doesn't matter whether you are a 'winner' or not.
Rinehart, assuming we re-sign him, is a very capable guard, and probably a superior run-blocker to Levitre.
At likely half the price.
Levitre is a very good pass protector, but if you don't have a decent QB to protect, then worrying overmuch about that, doesn't make so much sense.

The bottom line will be that what the Bills want to pay Levitre, will not be near enough what someone else can. Agents will always push for their clients to go where they will be paid most, as the agent gets the most out of it also.

If a player actually truly wants to stay with a team, they can do all sorts of things to make that happen. Levitre might only get, for example, $5 million a year from the Bills, but he could, if he was sensible about it, try and get the majority of it guaranteed, hence giving the Bills a 'discount', while also ensuring his own future. 5 years, $25 million, with $20 million guaranteed.

Tbh, I don't know why more guys don't actually go down that route, as much of the time, they don't end up getting half of what the deal supposedly was for in the first place. Seems to me as though these professional athletes, can't see beyond having the biggest numbers, rather than what actually will constitute the best deal for their futures.
That's not really true. Players and agents are always the ones trying to negotiate the most guaranteed money because that's the only number that really means anything at the end of the day. It's the teams that are reluctant to include more guaranteed money out of fear that the players will have less incentive to play hard and be stuck with a bad contract. With football being the violent game that it is, you are a lot less likely to get maximum effort from a guy if his contract is guaranteed. Believe me, players would happily take smaller overall deals if they included a high percentage of guaranteed money. You're unlikely to ever see contracts where 80+% is guaranteed because teams don't want to take that kind of risk.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The Bills they give 3 year extensions for 7 million a year to 32 year old RB's when they already have a good one though

So even after I posted a link to show you this was wrong, you're just gonna repeat this again? Jackson is not making 7 million a year. Not even Spiller is making 7 million a year.

[more cowbell]

VERY deep draft class for Guards and Tackles. Levitre is a good player, however, i doubt that there would be a major drop off if we were to bring in a guy like Brandon Moore, and let him, Rineheart, and a rookie compete for the starting spot.

I would love to see Levitre back, however, spending 9 million a year on a guard is beyond ridiculous.

[SABURZFAN]

let Levitre walk and draft Chance Warmack. he'll step in as a starter from Day 1. problem solved and money saved.

[BillsFever21]

So even after I posted a link to show you this was wrong, you're just gonna repeat this again? Jackson is not making 7 million a year. Not even Spiller is making 7 million a year.

By the times of the posts it looks like I was typing mine out as you were replying to the previous post. I meant with the raise added on to his 2012 contract and next year it cost us around 7 million dollars that we didn't need to pay him. Spiller can earn up to 7+ million with incentives but about 5+ million if he doesn't.

That extra money we spent on him wasn't wise. Would you spend almost 4 million dollars this year on a backup RB that hasn't finished a season in two years if you weren't already attached to him? You could have a compliment to Spiller for the rookie minimum especially when Jackson can't stay healthy anymore.

There wasn't any need to rush and sign him to a contract extension last year especially when coming off an injury and Spiller showing that he could perform. I love what Jackson has done but you pay players for what their future production is worth and not their past production. Especially when it poses a problem on us signing somebody else. The money they gave him would've went a long ways towards keeping Levitre and Byrd.

[Raptor]

You give a OG 8-9 million and you're going to lose players at far more important and harder positions to fill

[IlluminatusUIUC]

By the times of the posts it looks like I was typing mine out as you were replying to the previous post. I meant with the raise added on to his 2012 contract and next year it cost us around 7 million dollars that we didn't need to pay him. Spiller can earn up to 7+ million with incentives but about 5+ million if he doesn't.

7 million over two years is slightly different than 7 million a year, wouldn't you say? And Jackson doesn't need to see that final year if he's ineffective. His cap hit would be small if we cut him next year and this year he is still a valuable backup.


That extra money we spent on him wasn't wise. Would you spend almost 4 million dollars this year on a backup RB that hasn't finished a season in two years if you weren't already attached to him? You could have a compliment to Spiller for the rookie minimum especially when Jackson can't stay healthy anymore.

We signed Jackson's extension in 2012, before the season. In 2011, he was on a league-MVP pace. Do you remember how freakishly productive he was? Almost 1400 all purpose yards in less than 10 games.


There wasn't any need to rush and sign him to a contract extension last year especially when coming off an injury and Spiller showing that he could perform. I love what Jackson has done but you pay players for what their future production is worth and not their past production. Especially when it poses a problem on us signing somebody else. The money they gave him would've went a long ways towards keeping Levitre and Byrd.

That's great, but Jackson had clearly outperformed the deal we gave him as a UDFA and this was his last chance to actually make some money as a football player. I still have no problem with it. That cold emotional calculus has its uses, but this is not a franchise that can lure people with the chance of championships like New England. If you are going to screw over a locker room leader like Jackson, it's going to burn you. In the long run, I'd rather the team have a reputation as a franchise that will take care of you if you play hard and I think the few million Jackson earned will go farther than they would on some middling free agent. We still have enough to sign Levitre and Byrd.

[Scumbag College]

I'd be reluctant to pay a guard huge money after the whole Derrick Dockery disaster a few years back. Guard is one of those positions that can be found in the later rounds of the draft or later on in free agency. Not too many Guards have signed big free agent contracts and paid off with huge dividends recently.

Levitre has been versatile, durable, and played well in Buffalo. But, if the Bills are going to spend money in free agency and it comes to either signing Levitre and not getting any real help with their dismal, at best, WR and LB corps; or going with Urbik and Rhinehart and maybe bringing in some capable LBs and WRs, I'd go with bringing in a true starting WR and/or LB and letting Levitre walk.