McKelvin resigns with Buffalo

[Skooby]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/09/bills-keep-leodis-mckelvin-with-four-year-20-million-deal/

[kingJofNYC]

Contracts don't mean anything in this league, so the amount he's getting doesn't bother me, but what message does it send when you reward fringe starters but let go of your best players.

[bigbub2352]

horrible horrible horrible...we keep spinning our wheels resignin bums...benched for two seasons apparently gets you 5 mil a season with this winning franchise...thro in bryan scott and we have two players back from one of the worst defenses in bills history...way to take that step forward russ whaley and nix you are so much smarter than the rest of the teams in the NFL....man we suck

[Skooby]

horrible horrible horrible...we keep spinning our wheels resignin bums...benched for two seasons apparently gets you 5 mil a season with this winning franchise...thro in bryan scott and we have two players back from one of the worst defenses in bills history...way to take that step forward russ whaley and nix you are so much smarter than the rest of the teams in the NFL....man we suck

We don't know the terms, so step away from the ledge.

[Mahdi]

wow. I'm very surprised to see Leodis pick up 5 mil per. Either the Bills have a very high opinion of him or the other CBs on the market are going to be getting 8-9 mil per and they got a bargain.

[bigbub2352]

4 years 20 mil is being reported...for a punt returner and a player who was benched for two years then viewed as the startin cb this year by the same GM....sad it really is

[BuffaloBlakely14]

4 years 20 mil is being reported...for a punt returner and a player who was benched for two years then viewed as the startin cb this year by the same GM....sad it really is

If you think McKelvin was the problem with this defense last year, you may need to rewatch some of the games.

[Jaybird]

4 years 20 mil is being reported...for a punt returner and a player who was benched for two years then viewed as the startin cb this year by the same GM....sad it really is

The Coach makes the decision on who sits and starts. Not the GM.

[Bone]

horrible horrible horrible...we keep spinning our wheels resignin bums...benched for two seasons apparently gets you 5 mil a season with this winning franchise...thro in bryan scott and we have two players back from one of the worst defenses in bills history...way to take that step forward russ whaley and nix you are so much smarter than the rest of the teams in the NFL....man we suck

How the hell are you going to ***** about resigning a playmaker? Contracts don't mean anything these days, let's see how much is guaranteed first. He is the best special teamer other than Jacoby Jones. Yeah let's not resign him so we have 3 corners on our roster and no playmaker on ST.....

[kingJofNYC]

This dude can't cover at all too, just goes to show how ****ing pathetic Nix is. Keeps around complete bums like Kelsay and Scott, do nothing players, add McKelvin to the list now. Don't talk to me about his returns skills either, you can put Justin Rogers back there and get production. KR are devalued with the kickoff rules, so it basically comes down to PR, teams can stay away from him on punts.

Resources continued to be wasted on below average talent, or one trick ponies. How is this signing different than the Brad Smith signing? One can't play WR, the other can't play CB, both can return kicks.

Hurrah, another kick returner, exactly what we were lacking.

Edit: LOL @ calling McKelvin a playmaker. The dude can't ****ing cover, he can't make any plays in coverage. Some of you guys don't give up. McKelvin has started 10 games in the last 32, a third of his games. Pathetic CB play, good returner. Is the return game what's holding this team back or our inability to cover anyone?

[YardRat]

Hopefully about 8-10mil is signing bonus and the salaries for first three seasons are minimal.

[scartown]

Like the resigning. We'll see what the guaranteed money is.

[The Jokeman]

4 years 20 mil is being reported...for a punt returner and a player who was benched for two years then viewed as the startin cb this year by the same GM....sad it really is

I'm guessing Buddy wanted Leodis' contract to cover Brian Hartline's :err:

[bigbub2352]

wow really? you forget what this bust has done here for five seasons the reason another coaching staff benched him at cb and returner cause of how smart this guy is on the field...Brady sure loves to throw in his direction rewatch those games...he is part of a defense that was horrible just like scott yet resign them to contribute to what? Losing...sorry better talent was out there in fa

Nix sure does have a say on who is on this roster and he keeps bring back bums who other teams pick on in the passing game which is just has horrible as our run defense so yes mckelvin contributes to that....when he is actually on the field and not being benched for another horrible miss in the draft by Nix in Williams

Not to mention he was benched for a rookie in brooks as well as a former 7th rd pick in Rodgers

Spin it anyway you like this signing sucks!

[YardRat]

Just in case anybody is interested, I believe his rookie contract was 5 years for 19.4mil, if he hit all of the incentives (which I seriously doubt he did).

[YardRat]

7.5mil guaranteed according to NFLN

[X-Era]

Hopefully about 8-10mil is signing bonus and the salaries for first three seasons are minimal.easily could be. I'm guess a 3 mill cap hit or less

[cookie G]

I love this plan!!

Now let's go and get Caison for about 8-10 million!

[X-Era]

7.5mil guaranteed according to NFLNit will be very interesting to see how this structured. I admit I had sticker shock.

[psubills62]

Have to believe part of this is because we have no CB's. Desperate to re-sign.

Not really what I wanted to see, but whatever.

[kingJofNYC]

"But whatever" should be the official slogan of the Buffalo Bills.

It's what we all think when they make a move.

[DraftBoy]

Very good signing.

Cribbs got an almost identical deal two years ago from Cleveland. For a premier return guy this is below market rate and he was at times one of our best CB's in the slot. He's never going to quite live up to draft status but he's come a very long way.

[BuffaloBlakely14]

it will be very interesting to see how this structured. I admit I had sticker shock.

X how long until we see a breakdown you think? Remember last year the Mark Anderson contract initial figures were way off.

[DraftBoy]

For comp sake;
Hester-4yrs, 40.975 million, 15 million guaranteed in 2008
Cribbs-3 yrs, 20 Million, 7.5 Million guaranteed in 2010

[X-Era]

X how long until we see a breakdown you think? Remember last year the Mark Anderson contract initial figures were way off.usually will send something in a day or two

[YardRat]

I love this plan!!

Now let's go and get Caison for about 8-10 million!

:rofl: I was waiting for your response.


it will be very interesting to see how this structured. I admit I had sticker shock.

Me also, but it depends on how it's structured. If the 7.5 is all signing bonus, we know the cap hit is going to be at least 1.875 + 715k min salary = 2.59 cap hit.

I can live with that for a couple of seasons.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well Pettine had better be working on a plan for this kid to be a starter, because that is WAY TOO MUCH for a kick returner. We already have two kick returners in fold (Rogers and Smith) and Graham returned kicks in college.

[YardRat]

Minimum salaries, if anybody is interested...

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/07/2011-2014-nfl-minimum-base-salaries/

[DraftBoy]

Well Pettine had better be working on a plan for this kid to be a starter, because that is WAY TOO MUCH for a kick returner. We already have two kick returners in fold (Rogers and Smith) and Graham returned kicks in college.

It's below market, how is that way too much?

[X-Era]

:rofl: I was waiting for your response.



Me also, but it depends on how it's structured. If the 7.5 is all signing bonus, we know the cap hit is going to be at least 1.875 + 715k min salary = 2.59 cap hit.

I can live with that for a couple of seasons.me too. I was thinking cap hit of 3

[The Jokeman]

Very good signing.

Cribbs got an almost identical deal two years ago from Cleveland. For a premier return guy this is below market rate and he was at times one of our best CB's in the slot. He's never going to quite live up to draft status but he's come a very long way.

Yes and no because two years ago the NFL kickoff rules weren't the same. I get Leodis was a dynamic punt returner too but come on we've had great returners the last few years but that's all we've had so it's possible we put too much of an emphasis on the position. I don't mind bringing Leodis back as he's a fringe guy it's just I hope it wasn't at the expense of getting an above average LB and/or TE.

[kingJofNYC]

Josh Cribbs was overpaid to begin with.

What has Josh Cribbs done since they changed the Kickoff spot? **** all, that's what. I love how we're comparing this move to what the Browns did. The Cleveland ****ing Brown, a team that traded down in perhaps the best top 10 draft in the last 10 years, then failed to move up the draft with their extra draft selection to take RG and ended up panicking and taking a 30 year old QB.

Cribbs does very little to improve the Brows, same with McKelvin. Cribbs and McKelvin are luxuries good teams can afford not basement dwellers like the Browns/Bills.

[DraftBoy]

Yes and no because two years ago the NFL kickoff rules weren't the same. I get Leodis was a dynamic punt returner too but come on we've had great returners the last few years but that's all we've had so it's possible we put too much of an emphasis on the position. I don't mind bringing Leodis back as he's a fringe guy it's just I hope it wasn't at the expense of getting an above average LB and/or TE.

He's your #3 CB as far as I can see, that's not exactly fringe in a defense that's going to routinely go with 6 or 7 DB's.

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Josh Cribbs was overpaid to begin with.

What has Josh Cribbs done since they changed the Kickoff spot? **** all, that's what. I love how we're comparing this move to what the Browns did. The Cleveland ****ing Brown, a team that traded down in perhaps the best top 10 draft in the last 10 years, then failed to move up the draft with their extra draft selection and ended up panicking and taking a 30 year old QB.

Cribbs is worthless.

Doesn't matter what he's done, it matters what the market is at. McKelvin's deal is below market.

[X-Era]

He's your #3 CB as far as I can see, that's not exactly fringe in a defense that's going to routinely go with 6 or 7 DB's.

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Doesn't matter what he's done, it matters what the market is at. McKelvin's deal is below market.I'm thinking they may give him a legit shot at #2 cb

[DraftBoy]

I'm thinking they may give him a legit shot at #2 cb

Possibly, though I think Brooks is better suited outside and let McKelvin do what he does best.

[better days]

Well Pettine had better be working on a plan for this kid to be a starter, because that is WAY TOO MUCH for a kick returner. We already have two kick returners in fold (Rogers and Smith) and Graham returned kicks in college.

With McKelvins speed, maybe Pettine uses him to blitz.

[ServoBillieves]

Very happy with the re-signing. Rather than leave another hole, fill it and do it with a competent player.

[ServoBillieves]

With McKelvins speed, maybe Pettine uses him to blitz.

What the hell is a blitz? Under Wannstedt that term is lost in my memory bank.

[The Jokeman]

He's your #3 CB as far as I can see, that's not exactly fringe in a defense that's going to routinely go with 6 or 7 DB's.

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Doesn't matter what he's done, it matters what the market is at. McKelvin's deal is below market.


I'm just bitter about Leodis as he drives me insane when I watch him. As he is great at covering a receiver downfield but then when the ball gets there Leodis has no clue what to do. It's just odd as you'd think he'd use his return skills to track the ball down and knock it down/or go for the INT. I've mentioned it in other thread as a CB he has no ball skills whatsoever. He's just a small example as to why this team has sucked every year because if he lived up to his draft billing we woujldn't had to taken Aaron Williams and arguably Gilmore last year. Not that I'm hating on Gilmore as thought he was solid last year but it's stuff like this that keeps holding this team back.

[DraftBoy]

I'm just bitter about Leodis as he drives me insane when I watch him. As he is great at covering a receiver downfield but then when the ball gets there Leodis has no clue what to do. It's just odd as you'd think he'd use his return skills to track the ball down and knock it down/or go for the INT. I've mentioned it in other thread as a CB he has no ball skills whatsoever. He's just a small example as to why this team has sucked every year because if he lived up to his draft billing we woujldn't had to taken Aaron Williams and arguably Gilmore last year. Not that I'm hating on Gilmore as thought he was solid last year but it's stuff like this that keeps holding this team back.

Oh trust me its the oddest thing in the world. He absolutely cannot turn his head and locate which is why he's so much better in the slot where he doesn't have to turn and run as much and doesn't lose the ball.

[coastal]

Ummm... the CB market is flooded this year.

[kingJofNYC]

He's your #3 CB as far as I can see, that's not exactly fringe in a defense that's going to routinely go with 6 or 7 DB's.

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Doesn't matter what he's done, it matters what the market is at. McKelvin's deal is below market.

The market has moved, when Cribbs signed that deal in 2010 he did it with the old KO rules in tact. In 2011 they changed them. Market value for KR drastically drops. Not sure why someone would compare a deal from 2010 with the old rules, vs 2013 with new rules in place.

And again, it's the Browns/Bills who do stupid **** all the ****ing time, see Brad Smith. These teams don't define the market, they're the exception.

[DraftBoy]

The market has moved, when Cribbs signed that deal in 2010 he did it with the old KO rules in tact. In 2011 they changed them. Market value for KR drastically drops. Not sure why someone would compare a deal from 2010 with the old rules, vs 2013 with new rules in place.

And again, it's the Browns/Bills who do stupid **** all the ****ing time, see Brad Smith. These teams don't define the market, they're the exception.

Find me the last elite KR to sign for a comp. You can't claim the market has moved without a comp to prove it.

[coastal]

Well I think this hopefully can end the Cordarelle Patterson stupidity.

Although u can never have enough return guys.

[DraftBoy]

Well I think this hopefully can end the Cordarelle Patterson stupidity.

Although u can never have enough return guys.

You watched Tennessee play football this season correct?

[SquishDaFish]

You watched Tennessee play football this season correct?

Prob not

[coastal]

You watched Tennessee play football this season correct?
What's your point?

[kishoph]

I like this resigning, McKevin was looking good in coverage as the season went on last year and he's never had a problem covering people, it's been his ball skills that have been poor and with the right coaching, maybe that can be corrected. As far as a punt returner, He led the league in in average per return for anyone with more than 10 returns and had 9 returns for over 20 yards. The quickest way to flip the field other than a turnover is a good punt return and I rather have him on the Bills than having to face him on Sundays.

[kingJofNYC]

Find me the last elite KR to sign for a comp. You can't claim the market has moved without a comp to prove it.

KR men have been castrated with the new rules, they hold little value going forward. Heck, we've heard rumblings they want to get rid of it entirely. Belichick said there's almost no point, they should just spot the ball on the 20. Now returns do happen, but sometimes it's the kickers fault or it's a ridiculous 107 yard return.

Only a fool would sign one for Cribbs type money. There are no more elite KR, that's why you won't see comp.

PR are a different story and it's where McKelvin brings the most value, but you can minimize him if the punter can kick away. But then you have to ask yourself is a PR man is worth this contract. I personally don't.

[ServoBillieves]

You watched Tennessee play football this season correct?

I'll take the $2000 question. No, he didn't.

[JoeMama]

$20 mil for a mediocre CB.

Meanwhile our best G in a decade is sent packing.

???

Typical Bills. Why did I expect anything different?

I have nothing nice to say about the god damn morons that run this team. They're not even fit to manage a Burger King.

[YardRat]

$20 mil for a mediocre CB.

Meanwhile our best G in a decade is sent packing.

???

Typical Bills. Why did I expect anything different?

I have nothing nice to say about the god damn morons that run this team. They're not even fit to manage a Burger King.

I would gladly give 20mil over 4 yrs for our mediocre guard, also.

[cookie G]

:rofl: I was waiting for your response.



Thought you'd like that.

I can just feel the culture change oozing from OBD right now.

But I'm happy for ya Yardie, you get your fetish fix.

Hey, who was that guy in the other thread who called McLovin the new Kelsay?

Dude nailed it.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It's below market, how is that way too much?

LMAO below market. It's only below market if you think he can be a starting DB. If he is a returnman exclusively, then it's a staggering overpayment.

Jacoby Jones - 2 years 6.5 million
Leon Washington - 4 years 12.5 million
Trindon Holliday - 2 years, 890k
Brad Smith - 4 years 15 million
Ted Ginn - 1 year, 1.375 million

[Skooby]

Since I don't know the terms, I can't get mad about the signing. It might be $5 M signing bonus & backloaded big time, which if spread out might be alright.

[X-Era]

LMAO below market. It's only below market if you think he can be a starting DB. If he is a returnman exclusively, then it's a staggering overpayment.

Jacoby Jones - 2 years 6.5 million
Leon Washington - 4 years 12.5 million
Trindon Holliday - 2 years, 890k
Brad Smith - 4 years 15 million
Ted Ginn - 1 year, 1.375 million
Did you just use WR salaries as your argument?

He's a #3 CB.

[Don't Panic]

If all he ends up being is a returner and a slot CB then it's probably a bit more than I would have hoped for, but not by a significant amount. The position needed help though and with Gilmore emerging as a true shutdown corner, we have one less need... so long as Aaron Williams can be at least average this year (or Rogers supplants him). I'm still pissed at who we should have had in that draft instead of him... no fault of his though.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Did you just use WR salaries as your argument?

He's a #3 CB.

Did you actually read the post? That's what I said, the contract only makes sense if he can be a starting DB. The #3 DB is basically a starter these days. But if we are going back to McKelvin being benched for guys like Rogers and Aaron Williams and trying to justify his contract because he returns kicks - then it's a horrible deal.

[coastal]

Select Xavier Rhodes and sign Landry and our journey toward the dark side will be complete.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

im positive pettine will turn him into a big time corner. dude is very talented! very happy with our young cbs!

[X-Era]

Did you actually read the post? That's what I said, the contract only makes sense if he can be a starting DB. The #3 DB is basically a starter these days. But if we are going back to McKelvin being benched for guys like Rogers and Aaron Williams and trying to justify his contract because he returns kicks - then it's a horrible deal.
I did read your post and no a #3 CB is not a conventional starter. McKelvin is a #3 CB and has been pretty much for the past several years here. Rogers and Brooks have played but not as much as McKelvin in, and certainly not as much on the #3 CB role. Williams has played recently as the #2 CB which McKelvin also fought for. You seem to be mixing #2 CB and #3 CB and now are calling both starting positions. He is a "starter" using your definition and has been.

One big thing to keep in mind is scheme. Pettine may see McKelvin as being able to play even better in his new scheme.

[YardRat]

He is a 2x All-Pro selection, which is 2x more than Levitre can lay claim to.

[OpIv37]

How the hell are you going to ***** about resigning a playmaker? Contracts don't mean anything these days, let's see how much is guaranteed first. He is the best special teamer other than Jacoby Jones. Yeah let's not resign him so we have 3 corners on our roster and no playmaker on ST.....

It pains me to see fellow Bills fans have such a lax definition of "playmaker."

And contracts don't mean anything but cap hits do. This contract better be backloaded with a small signing bonus because I'm gonna be pissed if we let Levitre walk while McKelvin is eating up $5 million in cap space.

[YardRat]

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130309/SPORTS/130309179/1002

He entered the 2012 season working mostly as a slot cornerback. Former defensive coordinator Dave Wannstedt thought the inside defensive position would allow McKelvin to be more instinctive without worrying so much about deep sideline balls. However, the Bills’ No. 2 corner, Aaron Williams, struggled early, allowing five TD passes in the Bills’ first five games.

McKelvin took over for Williams midway through the eight game of the season and then started four more games before going out with a groin injury. McKelvin didn’t allow any significant completions in those starts.

Whether Williams will get a chance to compete at corner is uncertain. Nix raised the prospect of shifting him to safety.

[OpIv37]

Wow, McKelvin is a better CB than Aaron Williams.

And I'm a better athlete than Roseanne.

Pretty impressive, right?

[Thurmal]

What was their other option? Starting Justin Rogers or Aaron Williams on the other side? Paying out the ass for another run-of-the-mill corner in free agency? We pay Brad Smith $4 million/year to run two four-yard draws a game; we can pay McKelvin $5 million.

[JoeMama]

I would gladly give 20mil over 4 yrs for our mediocre guard, also.

Mediocre?

If that's what you're bringing to the table, I'm out.

That's beyond stupid.

It's not even worth discussing.

[Don't Panic]

Wow, McKelvin is a better CB than Aaron Williams.

And I'm a better athlete than Roseanne.

Pretty impressive, right?

Debatable... I hear she's a terror on the mat.

[BillsFever21]

Unbelievable. We a new head coach which his success is still TBD but we still have the same old lousy front office running the show in Brandon, Nix, etc.

We can't afford to re-sign our best OL and one of the top 5-10 guards in the NFL who has never missed a game for around 7 million or so a season or come to a long-term agreement with Byrd yet but we can sign a run of the mill CB that hasn't produced anything in 5 years outside of ST's for 5 million a year. I hit that contract right on the other day when I said around 5 million per season. It just blows my mind. Now that Kelsay retired they must be taking his spot with McKelvin by giving average at best players that are lucky to even start on our team let alone any other teams contract extensions for 5+ million a season.

So many people here said we can't afford to sign Levitre for 7+ million a year and upgrade other parts of our team or re-sign other guys who will be coming up in the next couple years but many of the same people doesn't have a problem with giving a Nickel CB 5 million a year. This team will always be a joke as long as we have bums like this front office running the show and all of that falls on Ralph Wilson for keeping them around.

Would you rather have one of the best guards in football who is just entering his prime for 7-8 million a year or a #3 CB/ST player who has been so horrible on defense for 5 years after we spent a top pick on him that we still had to keep drafting CB's to make up for it for 5 million a year? For good front office and team the choice would be easy but this is the most pathetic franchise over the past 13 years in the NFL we're talking about.

[BillsFever21]

What was their other option? Starting Justin Rogers or Aaron Williams on the other side? Paying out the ass for another run-of-the-mill corner in free agency? We pay Brad Smith $4 million/year to run two four-yard draws a game; we can pay McKelvin $5 million.

Just because they gave Brad Smith a worthless contract doesn't mean is justifies signing more worthless players and letting good ones go.

Your other option is to keep you best players like Levitre with that money and use a draft pick to replace McKelvin instead of using a draft pick to replace Levitre. Either way you are creating another hole on the team that needs replaced. Average CB's are a dime a dozen and we could find a better one in the draft to replace him and at the very least one just as good. Chances are we won't find a better guard then Levitre when we draft his replacement.

Even if Levitre and letting him walk over money wasn't factored into the equation it's still a horrible signing. All these average at best players that the Bills keep re-signing for 4-6 million dollars a year over the past several years could be money used towards bringing in or keeping better players. Good teams pay their best players and use the draft to replace or try and upgrade their average players for a million dollars a year.

The Bills prove more that if you're an average player we will pay to keep you around but if you're a good player and one of the best at your position then we will let you walk. Same as the coaches and front office people over the years and some wonder why we're the laughing stock of the NFL over the past 13 years.

[kishoph]

I have a feeling that if they would of let him walk, you would of had some of the same people that are complaining about signing him, complaining about not resigning him. Some people just want to sit at the computer and ***** about any move the Bills make.

[kingJofNYC]

YardRat can't be taken seriously when he's calling Levitre mediocre.

Can understand that he doesn't want to pay a guard 8m per, but calling him mediocre is straight up cognitive dissonance. "He'll no longer be on my favorite team, so he sucks." I'll praise McKelvin because he will be, even though he's not even a mediocre CB and has started 10 games in 2 years. 10 starts with all the injuries the team has suffered at the CB position, tack on the atrocious play of a few and McKelvin still couldn't get on the field. AWFUL, so lets extend him!

Delusional. I love the advanced metric **** they touted in the offseason as well, by any advanced metric McKelvin is dog ****.

[BillsFever21]

I have a feeling that if they would of let him walk, you would of had some of the same people that are complaining about signing him, complaining about not resigning him. Some people just want to sit at the computer and ***** about any move the Bills make.

Most of the people *****ing about the moves the Bills make are *****ing because they are horrible moves and contracts for backup level players. We haven't had a winning record in years and the only high priced FA we have signed is Williams yet we're in the middle of the pack as far as cap space goes. All that and we still have a pathetic roster and a ton of holes.

You have teams like Green Bay, Atlanta, Baltimore and New England with just as much or more cap space then we do and they are good teams with loaded rosters and have stud QB's signed to big contracts along with it. Most of the other teams that has around our level of success(none) the past 3-5 years all have 30+ million in cap space.

This team is so bad at cap management and identifying players to give the money to that even if we had a top QB making 20 million a year we would have about 5 million in cap space left and a worthless roster around them. When you hire a bunch of the cheapest junk pansies who are far above their pay grade to run the team that's what you get.

[BillsFever21]

YardRat can't be taken seriously when he's calling Levitre mediocre.

Can understand that he doesn't want to pay a guard 8m per, but calling him mediocre is straight up cognitive dissonance. "He'll no longer be on my favorite team, so he sucks." I'll praise McKelvin because he will be, even though he's not even a mediocre CB and has started 10 games in 2 years, mostly due to injuries.

Delusional. I love the advanced metric **** they touted in the offseason as well, by any advanced metric McKelvin is dog ****.

There are many fans who think that if they play for the Bills they are good and if/when they no longer play for them they are just "mediocre" players that are easily replaceable. Since that's the case then it was a great move giving McKelvin 5 million a year instead of giving Levitre 2-3 more million a year since McKelvin will be hard to replace and you can find top guards anywhere but you can't find #3 CB's as easily. :rolleyes:

Some will just constantly wear the rose colored glasses and drink the Kool-Aid and think that every move(or non-move) the Bills make is the right decision even though it continues to be proven wrong. These are the same people who predict 10-6 records every year or that we're only another year and draft/FA class away from being contenders.

The same people saying paying 5 million a year for someone like McKelvin is a great deal are the same people that would have called it a great move if we would've let him walk. Many of them same people were probably talking about how much he sucks over the past several years too. But hey he has a few ST's touchdowns so he's worth it. He gives up way more points then that from his horrible coverage and playing the ball skills at his true position.

[coastal]

Who here is excited about the analytics of this situation?

[fluteflakes]

7.5mil guaranteed according to NFLN

That makes me feel much better.

It's not about the whole deal, it's guaranteed money is all that matters. I'm sure a lot of that 20 mil is in incentives.

And I really don't get some of you.

The sky is falling when we let some depth in our WR spot go, and yet when we retain our depth and get a quality slot corner and ace punt returner, you whinge and whinge.

I just don't get it.

Come up with an alternative solution to our CB issues, and, more importantly, do NOT look at his "base" salary, most likely he'll make around 15-16 of that, if that. It's not doubt incentive laden. But everybody sees 4/20$ and loses their ever loving monkey minds. That's NFL asking price for a solid slot guy.

[DraftBoy]

What's your point?

That anybody who tries to correlate Patterson being a draft pick and return duty must of not watched Tennessee.

[DraftBoy]

LMAO below market. It's only below market if you think he can be a starting DB. If he is a returnman exclusively, then it's a staggering overpayment.

Jacoby Jones - 2 years 6.5 million
Leon Washington - 4 years 12.5 million
Trindon Holliday - 2 years, 890k
Brad Smith - 4 years 15 million
Ted Ginn - 1 year, 1.375 million

Outside of Jones, who only blew up this year, none of those guys are elite return men. Maybe Holliday. Jones is due 3 Million but another million in roster bonus. So at 4 Million his contract is exactly in line with McKelvin's. So again what are you talking about in terms of saying we over paid?

[fluteflakes]

Holliday was cut by Huston and was lucky to get another NFL job, the fact that he isn't making elite money doesn't surprise me. None of those guys are top flight return men anymore, and even then, they're one dimensional players. Leodis CAN cover in the slot. And with some actually good defensive coaching, CAN be a good player for us. All people see is the failure he was as a #2 and write him and the organization off as "da same ole' Bills". He was a very solid nickle corner last year, and was by fa our best special teams player, both tackling and forcing fumbles, and returning kicks.

He's making slightly more than Brad Smith and gives us far more production.

[Mouldsie]

"But whatever" should be the official slogan of the Buffalo Bills.

It's what we all think when they make a move.
This

[Skooby]

$7.5 M was higher than I though he'd get guaranteed, by $2.5 M. It's all good though if he plays well & the $7.5 is broken up over a multi-year period.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I did read your post and no a #3 CB is not a conventional starter. McKelvin is a #3 CB and has been pretty much for the past several years here. Rogers and Brooks have played but not as much as McKelvin in, and certainly not as much on the #3 CB role. Williams has played recently as the #2 CB which McKelvin also fought for. You seem to be mixing #2 CB and #3 CB and now are calling both starting positions. He is a "starter" using your definition and has been.

Looking at Pettine's tendencies from 2011, the last year I have the chart for it, he uses a nickel back on nearly 60% of his plays. So whether or not you consider the #3 to be a "conventional" starter - that position sees the field a lot in Pettine's defense. And remember, McKelvin is not some late rounder who earned his way into the slot, he's a former top 15 pick who has fallen down the depth chart until he reached a job he could handle.

Now, I don't have any particular problem bringing McKelvin back, but at that price he needs to justify that salary on defense - returnman dont get $20 million deals. And for that matter, neither do slot corners, so ideally I'd like to see him either play at a dominant level inside or improve enough to take over the outside again.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Outside of Jones, who only blew up this year, none of those guys are elite return men. Maybe Holliday.

Define elite then. I threw out contracts of players that were signed for their return ability. That's why I excluded guys like Harvin and Hester, because they are (or were) expected to contribute heavily on offense. Every one of those players has as many return TDs as McKelvin, some of them several more. How can you throw out Cribbs contract to claim we're in line with it, when Cribbs's own production failed to back that up? He has one return touchdown since he signed that deal and his offense hasn't made up for it.


Jones is due 3 Million but another million in roster bonus. So at 4 Million his contract is exactly in line with McKelvin's. So again what are you talking about in terms of saying we over paid?

Jacoby Jones is set to make $1 million less over the life of his deal than McKelvin will just in guaranteed money. And Jones will likely get an increased role on offense, since he scored those two unbelievable TDs in the playoffs this year.

[DraftBoy]

Define elite then. I threw out contracts of players that were signed for their return ability. That's why I excluded guys like Harvin and Hester, because they are (or were) expected to contribute heavily on offense. Every one of those players has as many return TDs as McKelvin, some of them several more. How can you throw out Cribbs contract to claim we're in line with it, when Cribbs's own production failed to back that up? He has one return touchdown since he signed that deal and his offense hasn't made up for it.



Jacoby Jones is set to make $1 million less over the life of his deal than McKelvin will just in guaranteed money. And Jones will likely get an increased role on offense, since he scored those two unbelievable TDs in the playoffs this year.

McKelvin is expected to contribute defensively, just as Hester and Cribbs were expected to contribute offensively.

Jones is currently a cut consideration by Baltimore.

[gr8slayer]

You know what, it won't be popular opinion, but I think that this is a good deal for both parties.

[The Jokeman]

That anybody who tries to correlate Patterson being a draft pick and return duty must of not watched Tennessee.

To be fair to coastal I think he was commenting on my offseason plan. As I vividly said that I would let McKelvin go for the sake of adding Patterson. As I felt Patterson as a rookie could replace McKelvin as our return specialist as a rookie and provide depth at the WR position and eventually be our #1 WR. As I'm realistic and understand that most WRs take a few years (usually 3) before can be truly counted on to be full time contributors. In fact I felt Patterson could be another Eric Moulds in terms of expectations on production etc. As yes I see Patterson as more than just a return man yet not sure coastal fully gets where I was coming from in drafting him.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

McKelvin is expected to contribute defensively, just as Hester and Cribbs were expected to contribute offensively.

Neither Hester nor Cribbs actually did contribute all that much offensively though. You can't say that either of them live up to their deals, can you?


Jones is currently a cut consideration by Baltimore.

Ok so Jones, despite making a fraction of what McKelvin is scheduled to, isn't worth his contract to Baltimore? How are we below market again?

[BillsFever21]

What I love about some fans are that probably most of the people who says that 4yr-20 million dollar contract for a #3 CB in McKelvin is a fair deal were the same ones saying that Donte Whitner wasn't worth the 4 million a year that he wanted and that the 3yr-11.5 million dollar deal that the 49ers paid him was obscene. Sure CB's get paid more then safeties but you would think a starting safety wouldn't be making more then 1 million a year less then a #3 CB.

I wasn't a fan of keeping Whitner around at the time either but it's just the perfect example of drinking the Kool-Aid at OBD and thinking anybody they sign must be good and anybody they let go wasn't worth the money. I guarantee you if we didn't sign McKelvin and the Dolphins or Jets gave him that same contract the same people would be laughing about how stupid they were for overpaying McKelvin and giving him 5 million a year.

[Night Train]

I bet after his bonus, his yearly cap hit isn't all that much.

[better days]

What I love about some fans are that probably most of the people who says that 4yr-20 million dollar contract for a #3 CB in McKelvin is a fair deal were the same ones saying that Donte Whitner wasn't worth the 4 million a year that he wanted and that the 3yr-11.5 million dollar deal that the 49ers paid him was obscene. Sure CB's get paid more then safeties but you would think a starting safety wouldn't be making more then 1 million a year less then a #3 CB.

I wasn't a fan of keeping Whitner around at the time either but it's just the perfect example of drinking the Kool-Aid at OBD and thinking anybody they sign must be good and anybody they let go wasn't worth the money. I guarantee you if we didn't sign McKelvin and the Dolphins or Jets gave him that same contract the same people would be laughing about how stupid they were for overpaying McKelvin and giving him 5 million a year.

Have you gone to the store lately or bought gas for your car? EVERYTHING has gone up in price the last few years. Whitner was OVERPAID by the 49ers at the time & not worth the money he signed for. The proof of that is the 49ers cut Whitner after the end of the first year of a 3 year contract. That means no other team wanted to trade for Whitner & that contract either. In addition, Whitner wanted out of Buffalo so it is doubtful he would have stayed even if Buffalo offered him a contract equal to the 49ers deal.

For me, I am happy the Bills resigned McKelvin & I am happy they did not resign Whitner.

[YardRat]

Mediocre?

If that's what you're bringing to the table, I'm out.

That's beyond stupid.

It's not even worth discussing.


YardRat can't be taken seriously when he's calling Levitre mediocre.

Can understand that he doesn't want to pay a guard 8m per, but calling him mediocre is straight up cognitive dissonance. "He'll no longer be on my favorite team, so he sucks."

OK, maybe 'mediocre' was admittedly a little bit harsh and 'slightly above average' would've been more accurate, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the quote above. Levitre is pretty athletic and does well on the move, but I'm not in the camp that believes he's irreplaceable by any means, or the camp that likes to look at sacks against stats and start chest-thumping over how good the o-line in general, or Levitre specifically, is.

Too often in the past he rarely gets push and often gets overpowered by bull rushers. He's a finesse blocker, not a mauler by any means, and that's only effective for about one third of the offensive plays. He'll probably make big bank in FA, but can a guy that's never even been close to sniffing a Pro Bowl or All Pro team live up to the contract? It depends on where he goes and what he's asked to do...if he lands on a team that runs a similar offense and (obviously) line scheme as Gailey, he'll probably do OK...if not, somebody's going to regret over-paying him.

[YardRat]

Now, I don't have any particular problem bringing McKelvin back, but at that price he needs to justify that salary on defense - returnman dont get $20 million deals. And for that matter, neither do slot corners, so ideally I'd like to see him either play at a dominant level inside or improve enough to take over the outside again.

I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation.


What I love about some fans are that probably most of the people who says that 4yr-20 million dollar contract for a #3 CB in McKelvin is a fair deal were the same ones saying that Donte Whitner wasn't worth the 4 million a year that he wanted and that the 3yr-11.5 million dollar deal that the 49ers paid him was obscene. Sure CB's get paid more then safeties but you would think a starting safety wouldn't be making more then 1 million a year less then a #3 CB.

Most people wanted Whitner gone because he sucks, and any amount of money would have been too much. Had nothing to do with the contract.

[X-Era]

As I said, some of you may not think he's a starter or even being considered as one but Nix does.

"His new $5 million-a-year contract, which includes $7.5 million in guaranteed money, signals the Bills’ regard for him as a worthy starter in the secondary opposite cornerback Stephon Gilmore.
Bills General Manager Buddy Nix said as much last month.
“Leodis has got to have some help, but he’s a big-time returner,” said Nix. “I think Leodis will be a candidate for that spot.”"

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130309/SPORTS/130309179/1082

[Yasgur's Farm]

$7.5 M was higher than I though he'd get guaranteed, by $2.5 M. It's all good though if he plays well & the $7.5 is broken up over a multi-year period.
My guess is that the contract looks something like...
$5M signing bonus
2013 - $1M salary guaranteed - $2.25M cap hit
2014 - $1.5M salary guaranteed - $2.75M cap hit
2015 - $5M salary - $6.25M cap hit
2016 - $7.5M salary - $8.75M cap hit

[DraftBoy]

Neither Hester nor Cribbs actually did contribute all that much offensively though. You can't say that either of them live up to their deals, can you?



Ok so Jones, despite making a fraction of what McKelvin is scheduled to, isn't worth his contract to Baltimore? How are we below market again?

And as I said it doesn't matter whether they did or not. For an elite return guy who is expected to play more than ST he got below market.

Jones will make almost identical to McKelvin this year, we've been over that. The Ravens cap situation is also very tight. Come on you know all of this.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And as I said it doesn't matter whether they did or not.

Of course it matters. If you are going to compare McKelvin's deal to Cribbs' to claim it was a good deal, then the fact that Cribbs' deal turned into a disaster is highly relevant.


For an elite return guy who is expected to play more than ST he got below market.

And it's his defense that will determine the worth of the contract, not his ST play.


Jones will make almost identical to McKelvin this year, we've been over that. The Ravens cap situation is also very tight. Come on you know all of this.

Right, their cap situation is tight so who's on the chopping black? The elite return guy. Because even elite return guys aren't that valuable.

Kick returning is crazy overvalued in Buffalo, maybe because our last playoff run ended on a kick return. But in the grand scheme of things, it takes an absolute eye-popping all-world guy like Hester or Hall to make any meaningful impact on your season. The difference between Buffalo's "elite" punt return game and the league average accounted for about 7 yards per game and 1 extra TD every two months last year. The difference between Buffalo's elite kick return game and the league average also accounted for about 7 yards per game and 1 extra td over the entire year.

Considering that even the most elite of elite return guys can be negated by something as simple as booting the ball through the end zone or out of bounds, it's really just not all that impactful in the modern NFL.

[kingJofNYC]

The fact Nix says he's a canindate for a starting CB spot says it all, trash depth. You can say that about a lot of the positions on this team. Someone needs to ask him what Brad Smith brings to the table. Passes up generational talents like Jones and Green in order to keep undrafted free agents on the roster that he cuts two years latter. "We're fine at the position, we might have too much depth," is what he said a couple of years ago. Now he has to scramble and find WRs. Hahahahahaha

McKelvin wouldn't sniff a starting spot on a competent tream. Why is Nix still running things? Fools from top to bottom.

what a joke.

[Extremebillsfan247]

This resigning was a bit odd for me. Not that I dislike Mckelvin as a player, but up until last year, he struggled a lot with the Bills. Other than his special teams play, I fail to see how he brings any type of value worthy of the contract he was given. The length is also puzzling. Why 4 years instead of 3? He's 27, a year or 2 from now and he will be in decline physically if not already. 3 years would have probably been a better fit in my opinion.

[BillsFever21]

Have you gone to the store lately or bought gas for your car? EVERYTHING has gone up in price the last few years. Whitner was OVERPAID by the 49ers at the time & not worth the money he signed for. The proof of that is the 49ers cut Whitner after the end of the first year of a 3 year contract. That means no other team wanted to trade for Whitner & that contract either. In addition, Whitner wanted out of Buffalo so it is doubtful he would have stayed even if Buffalo offered him a contract equal to the 49ers deal.

For me, I am happy the Bills resigned McKelvin & I am happy they did not resign Whitner.

What does gas and groceries have to do with an NFL player? No matter if gas was going down of course the salaries in the NFL go up every year. At least for the past 20 years. It still doesn't mean that 5 million a year for a #3 level CB is a good contract. William Gay just signed for 3 years and 4.5 million with a 500k bonus. Is McKelvin 3 times as better then William Gay? Outside of his return ability he's lucky to be even as good at CB as William Gay.

I didn't want Whitner back either and I'm glad we didn't re-sign him so I don't know where you are going with that. You lost all credibility on the subject with the above statement highlighted in bold. I may be wrong or my contacts might have needed changed but the last time I checked that was Donte Whitner playing safety for the 49ers in the Super Bowl and the past couple years :roflmao: I know he's not great so he may have been released after the first year so I will have check on that one and make sure my contacts are up to date or doesn't need changed. :rolleyes:

If you are going to drink the Kool-Aid and defend paying 5 million a year for a #3 CB who has only managed to start around half the games on a horrible team with a pathetic defense and defensive backfield then at least get your facts right. Unless he is another Chris Kelsay to the Bills then McKelvin will probably be the one released within a couple seasons. Who knows maybe you thought the Kelsay contract was also a smart move and maybe even the Fitzpatrick contract.

[BillsFever21]

After some long and extensive research into the subject I was able to confirm that it was Donte Whitner playing with the 49ers last season and not just another safety that happened to have the same last name by coincidence.


http://l.yimg.com/iu/api/res/1.2/Frfqg1rnxXzDvi58lOUaKw--/YXBwaWQ9eXZpZGVvO2g9MTUwO3E9ODA7dz0xNTA-/http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/i/us/sp/v/nfl/players_l/20120913/7757.jpg Donte Whitner

<form name="select_player" id="select_player" action="#"> </form>

#31 Safety
San Francisco San Francisco (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sfo)



Height: 5-10
Weight: 208
Born: <time itemprop="birthDate" datetime="1985-07-24">Jul 24, 1985</time> - Cleveland, Ohio
College: Ohio State
Draft: 2006 - 1st round 8th pick by the Buffalo Bills


<tbody>







</tbody>


<tbody>
Season Outlook
Tackles*
Sacks
Interceptions
Misc


Week
Opp
G
Solo
Ast
Total
Sack
YdsL
Int
Yds
IntTD
DefTD
FFum
PD
Sfty


Last 4 Games
4
15
6
21
0.0
0
0
0
0
0
1
3
0


14 '12
MIA
1
2
2
4
0.0
0
0
0
0
-
0
1
-


15 '12
@NWE
1
5
2
7
0.0
0
0
0
0
-
1
1
-


16 '12
@SEA
1
4
1
5
0.0
0
0
0
0
-
0
1
-


17 '12
ARI
1
4
1
5
0.0
0
0
0
0
-
0
0
-


2012 Year to Date
16
61
21
82
0.0
0
1
42
1
1
2
5
0

</tbody>

Last updated through games completed on Feb 3, 2013




<tbody>
Career Stats
Tackles
Sacks
Interceptions
Misc


Season
Team
G
Solo
Ast
Total
Sack
YdsL
Int
Yds
IntTD
DefTD
FFum
PD
Sfty


2010-11
Buffalo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/buf)
16
96
44
140
1.0
2
1
37
0
0
1
7
0


2011-12
San Francisco (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sfo)
15
49
13
62
0.0
0
2
48
0
0
1
10
0


2012-13
San Francisco (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sfo)
16
61
21
82
0.0
0
1
42
1
1
2
5
0


Career Totals (Full (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7757/career))
100
433
163
596
2.0
15
8
270
2
2
6
34
0

</tbody>

Last updated through games completed on Feb 3, 2013

[coastal]

To be fair to coastal I think he was commenting on my offseason plan. As I vividly said that I would let McKelvin go for the sake of adding Patterson. As I felt Patterson as a rookie could replace McKelvin as our return specialist as a rookie and provide depth at the WR position and eventually be our #1 WR. As I'm realistic and understand that most WRs take a few years (usually 3) before can be truly counted on to be full time contributors. In fact I felt Patterson could be another Eric Moulds in terms of expectations on production etc. As yes I see Patterson as more than just a return man yet not sure coastal fully gets where I was coming from in drafting him.
I get it but just don't agree with it... and the Eric Moulds of this draft is the kid from Clemson.

[mjt328]

As I've said in other posts, the problem still comes down to poor drafting.

Nix spent a 1st rounder on Gilmore, a 2nd on Williams, a 4th on Brooks and a 7th on Rogers. Yet if the season started today, we NEED McKelvin as a starter.

[YardRat]

As I've said in other posts, the problem still comes down to poor drafting.

Nix spent a 1st rounder on Gilmore, a 2nd on Williams, a 4th on Brooks and a 7th on Rogers. Yet if the season started today, we NEED McKelvin as a starter.

That will turn out pretty sweet if Gilmore progresses to 'shutdown', Williams moves to safety, Brooks and McKelvin solidify #2 and #3, and Rogers can provide depth at CB and PR/KR.

[better days]

As I've said in other posts, the problem still comes down to poor drafting.

Nix spent a 1st rounder on Gilmore, a 2nd on Williams, a 4th on Brooks and a 7th on Rogers. Yet if the season started today, we NEED McKelvin as a starter.

How is that poor drafting?

Gilmore is a STUD.

Williams has potential to be a GOOD Safety.

Brooks a 4th rnd pick still on the team is GRAVY.

Rogers a 7th rnd pick still on the team is an extra side of GRAVY.

[Skooby]

I think Gilmore has the potential to be one of our best defensive players, wouldn't discount anything currently he's done.

[DraftBoy]

Of course it matters. If you are going to compare McKelvin's deal to Cribbs' to claim it was a good deal, then the fact that Cribbs' deal turned into a disaster is highly relevant.

No its not saying that because Cribb **** the bed when he got paid does not mean McKelvin will. That's a ridiculous leap.


And it's his defense that will determine the worth of the contract, not his ST play.

He maintains a Pro Bowl level return game and puts us in good field position, I could care less if he even sees the field as a CB.


Right, their cap situation is tight so who's on the chopping black? The elite return guy. Because even elite return guys aren't that valuable.

They are letting Kruger walk and are scrambling to find more money through cuts and renegotiation to keep Ellerbe and Reed. They basically hand cuffed themselves into having to re-do Flacco's deal in three years just to save some on the front end.

[justasportsfan]

I'm lukewarm about the signing. Hated McKelvin prior to the 2012 season but he played decently last year.

[trapezeus]

With Kelsay gone, someone had to step up and sign a large deal for absolutely no reason well after the fact he should be signed for much less and in a more limited role.

[X-Era]

In 2011, Drayton Florence was signed for 3 years 15 mill.

Personally I'd rather have McKelvin at the same price.

McKelvin has become just as good or better in coverage, without all the penalties, and is a very good returner.

I think we got good value personally.

[Yasgur's Farm]

You're right... Wait 'til the contract details emerge and we all find out that McKelvins contarct adds less than $3M to the cap the next 2 seasons. Of course the agenda guys will be adding the $1.6M dead money from his voided year.