Levitre signs with Titans.

[BertSquirtgum]

Levitre signs with Titans.

[SquishDaFish]

Link? When you start threads that your saying the signing happened please include link

[Bangarang]

5 years $39million

That's a lot.

[Slim]

Give me Vasquez if he comes cheap. Or even Brandon Moore.

[BertSquirtgum]

It was just on ESPN, 5 years 39 million for a guard. Very stupid.

[SquishDaFish]

5 for 39 DAMN. Knew it would be 7-8 a year

[X-Era]

5 years $39million

That's a lot.It's way to much for US to spend on a G.

[don137]

Levitre is a very good player, reliable player but 5 yr 39MM for a player that never made the pro bowl is too much.

[X-Era]

5 for 39 DAMN. Knew it would be 7-8 a yearMany of us did

[SquishDaFish]

Def glad we didnt sign him for that deal

[BertSquirtgum]

Brandon Moore here we come.

[coastal]

Yeah!!!! Our best offensive lineman is gone!!! Yeah!!!!

idiots.

[Albany,n.y.]

Link? When you start threads that your saying the signing happened please include link
When you hear something on the radio or see it on TV, you don't always have a link. There are sources beyond the internet.

[Lefty2985]

Joe b sayin it's 6yrs for 46.8

[MikeInRoch]

Yeah!!!! Our best offensive lineman is gone!!! Yeah!!!!

idiots.

Woods left?

[coastal]

Woods left?
Lap it up mouth breather.

it doesn't matter... we will be competing for the top overall selection next year.

[HAMMER]

Woods left?

Who's Woods?

[Albany,n.y.]

Vasquez to Broncos as seen on NFL network.

[coastal]

Wake me up when Rinehart signs with the Giants.

[BertSquirtgum]

Yeah!!!! Our best offensive lineman is gone!!! Yeah!!!!

idiots.

Who is cheering idiot?

[coastal]

Who is cheering idiot?
Go sauce yourself and leave the intelligent discourse to the grown-ups.

[kishoph]

Wake me up when Rinehart signs with the Giants.

Why don't you just go join the Giants message board and wait for the news and stay there. :pest:

[JoeMama]

Yeah!!!! Our best offensive lineman is gone!!! Yeah!!!!

idiots.

For real.

I open this thread and it's nothing but sycophantic homers reveling in how AWESOME IT IS to lose our best lineman.

"I care more about Ralph Wilson's checking account than fielding a good team!" ~ every bozo on BFZ

It's like a cockroach voting for Raid.

[YardRat]

We are going to suck this year, even if Levitre was re-signed. Maybe even moreso if we kept him.

Waaaay too much money for a G, it's going to be interesting to follow how he pans out.

Really should get Rhinehart in the fold quickly, though...no reason they can't offer him a similar deal to Urbik, maybe a little bit less.

[coastal]

Why don't you just go join the Giants message board and wait for the news and stay there. :pest:
Because I love u.

[kishoph]

Because I love u.


I knew there had to be some kind reason why you stick around here.

[YardRat]

For real.

I open this thread and it's nothing but sycophantic homers reveling in how AWESOME IT IS to lose our best lineman.

"I care more about Ralph Wilson's checking account than fielding a good team!" ~ every bozo on BFZ

It's like a cockroach voting for Raid.

Well, just for me personally I care about fielding a good team, but that's harder to do when your paying a guard 8mil per.

IMO, I'd rather be able to upgrade multiple positions for the same of the money (LB, DE, CB, Wr....goodness knows we have enough holes) than pay through the nose for the status quo.

Why does everybody overlook the fact that we sucked the last four seasons with Levitre?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, just for me personally I care about fielding a good team, but that's harder to do when your paying a guard 8mil per.

IMO, I'd rather be able to upgrade multiple positions for the same of the money (LB, DE, CB, Wr....goodness knows we have enough holes) than pay through the nose for the status quo.

Why does everybody overlook the fact that we sucked the last four seasons with Levitre?

So what positions are we upgrading with this money? We're apparently using it to bring back Scott and McKelvin.

[Night Train]

IMO, I'd rather be able to upgrade multiple positions for the same of the money (LB, DE, CB, Wr....goodness knows we have enough holes) than pay through the nose for the status quo.

Why does everybody overlook the fact that we sucked the last four seasons with Levitre?

Stop talking sense. Set an agenda and defend the bunker at all costs.

[YardRat]

So what positions are we upgrading with this money? We're apparently using it to bring back Scott and McKelvin.

We're going to find out. TBH, I don't expect any huge splashes. Not to be a stickler for details, but Scott and McKelvin were already done and accounted for.

[mjt328]

So what positions are we upgrading with this money? We're apparently using it to bring back Scott and McKelvin.

Exactly.

We don't want to pay elite money to keep one of our best players, but we are willing to overpay for mediocre backups.

[DraftBoy]

So what positions are we upgrading with this money? We're apparently using it to bring back Scott and McKelvin.

Maybe nobody this year, maybe a QB next year. It's far too early to make any assumption about how that money will be used. Either way $8M a year is more than the Bills were ever going to pay Levitre. He got paid, good for him.

[YardRat]

Exactly.

We don't want to pay elite money to keep one of our best players, but we are willing to overpay for mediocre backups.

Wanna know a sure sign that your team sucks? One of the best players is a guard, and that's only because the punter got cut last season.

[coastal]

I knew there had to be some kind reason why you stick around here.
Zonerz (to coastal): I knew u were trouble when u walked in, so shame on me now! Flew me to places I've never been. Now Im lying on the cold hard ground. Oh, oh trouble, trouble trouble!


http://youtu.be/v7PNRKpMYKQ

[YardRat]

Zonerz (to coastal): I knew u were trouble when u walked in, so shame on me now! Flew me to places I've never been. Now Im lying on the cold hard ground. Oh, oh trouble, trouble trouble!


http://youtu.be/v7PNRKpMYKQ

Speaking of sucking. Ewwww...

[BillsFever21]

Well, just for me personally I care about fielding a good team, but that's harder to do when your paying a guard 8mil per.

IMO, I'd rather be able to upgrade multiple positions for the same of the money (LB, DE, CB, Wr....goodness knows we have enough holes) than pay through the nose for the status quo.

Why does everybody overlook the fact that we sucked the last four seasons with Levitre?

I guess there isn't any sense in keeping Byrd either with that logic. Our defense has been the worse in the league and in the HISTORY of the Bills with him as our starting FS. We have sucked for the past 4 years with him so I guess he is expendable too.

No instead we gave McKelvin 5 million a year and will use the other 3 million for another average at best player that won't make an impact with the money. In the end none of our other positions were upgraded and we downgrade one other position. That's the Bills for the past 5 years or so. Then we will draft a guard in the first few rounds to replace Levitre and hope he is decent instead of using that draft pick to try and upgrade other positions.

[fluteflakes]

Lap it up mouth breather.

it doesn't matter... we will be competing for the top overall selection next year.

Because we lost a Guard?

He wanted WAY too much money. You don't pay a guard 8 mil a year, you just don't.

[JoeMama]

Well, just for me personally I care about fielding a good team, but that's harder to do when your paying a guard 8mil per.

IMO, I'd rather be able to upgrade multiple positions for the same of the money (LB, DE, CB, Wr....goodness knows we have enough holes) than pay through the nose for the status quo.

Why does everybody overlook the fact that we sucked the last four seasons with Levitre?

Do you read the inane stuff you put on your screen before you hit post?

Just because a team sucks doesn't mean every player on the team sucks.

That's like saying OJ Simpson sucked because we were terrible in the 70s.

Letting your biggest asset on the offensive line go uncontested is stupid.

And you keep saying that it's a money issue. It's not a money issue RIGHT NOW. We had the cap space to keep Levitre but chose not to exercise that option. The way deals are structured nowadays we could have made it less cost prohibitive to release him year two or year three of his deal if we needed the cap space.

For 2013, we just got worse.

And the only reason why is that we're worried we'll be too awesome in a few years and cap hell will force us to purge our winning.

Fans are getting WAY too far ahead of themselves, fussing over the cap. Get real.

[coastal]

Speaking of sucking. Ewwww...
Taylor's dysfunctional brand of crazy is so ****ing hot.

its probably part of the reason I like u people so much.

- - - Updated - - -


Because we lost a Guard?

He wanted WAY too much money. You don't pay a guard 8 mil a year, you just don't.
By u pay a never was DE $10 million?

mkay.

[DraftBoy]

Do you read the inane stuff you put on your screen before you hit post?

Just because a team sucks doesn't mean every player on the team sucks.

That's like saying OJ Simpson sucked because we were terrible in the 70s.

Letting your biggest asset on the offensive line go uncontested is stupid.

And you keep saying that it's a money issue. It's not a money issue RIGHT NOW. We had the cap space to keep Levitre but chose not to exercise that option. The way deals are structured nowadays we could have made it less cost prohibitive to release him year two or year three of his deal if we needed the cap space.

For 2013, we just got worse.

And the only reason why is that we're worried we'll be too awesome in a few years and cap hell will force us to purge our winning.

Fans are getting WAY too far ahead of themselves, fussing over the cap. Get real.

If they kick Glenn inside I doubt you see much of a fall off. I really think you're over reacting to the situation. Just let it play out and see what happens.

[MikeInRoch]

Who's Woods?

Heh. Oops.

[gloveus]

Why does everybody overlook the fact that we sucked the last four seasons with Levitre?

You make it sound as if Levitre was part of the problem. Football is a team sport, and when you get enough good pieces, that's when you start winning. Are you going to tell me that it would be ok for the Lions to let Calvin Johnson leave because they've sucked for most of the years he's been there?

Other than that, I completely agree with you. That is too much money to pay a guard. Guard isn't enough of an impact position to sacrifice quality at other positions. Still, I am sad to let go of the talent, versatility and personality of Levitre.

[fluteflakes]

Taylor's dysfunctional brand of crazy is so ****ing hot.

its probably part of the reason I like u people so much.

- - - Updated - - -


By u pay a never was DE $10 million?

mkay.

Defensive end has a much more tangible impact to the game than the left guard.

That's just how it is. The Titans overpayed for him. Steve Hutchenson was an AMAZING guard. And he was still on quite a few crappy teams and never won a super bowl. I don't care if he's "our best player" (which he's not) you do not, pay a guard, 8 million dollars a season.

[JoeMama]

If they kick Glenn inside I doubt you see much of a fall off. I really think you're over reacting to the situation. Just let it play out and see what happens.

It's not like I have a choice in the matter.

Mostly I just get agitated by fans who can't repress their sycophantic urge to rationalize every dumb decision OBD makes, even for 5 seconds.

"Oh cool, Andy Levitre is gone! Thank God we got rid of our best lineman! Another brilliant move by the wizards at OBD! Love those guys!"

[jimmifli]

Why does everybody overlook the fact that we sucked the last four seasons with Levitre?
Because we suck more without him. And haven't been able to upgrade multiple positions through any method ever in the last decade. So your plan sounds great, spread the money around and upgrade multiple positions. In reality we will sign our backup CB/PR for an inflated deal and convince a few old scrubs to come to town on overpriced deals. The O line will be worse and the "upgrades" will be Drayton Florenceesque. No thanks.

[YardRat]

Do you read the inane stuff you put on your screen before you hit post?

Just because a team sucks doesn't mean every player on the team sucks.

I'll reiterate, just because it's such an appropriate comment..."Wanna know a sure sign that your team sucks? One of the best players is a guard, and that's only because the punter got cut last season."



Letting your biggest asset on the offensive line go uncontested is stupid.

That's debatable.


And you keep saying that it's a money issue. It's not a money issue RIGHT NOW. We had the cap space to keep Levitre but chose not to exercise that option. The way deals are structured nowadays we could have made it less cost prohibitive to release him year two or year three of his deal if we needed the cap space.


Of course it's a money issue. $39mil for a single guard takes that money out of the pot for other player acquisitions. You know, like Bill Clinton said..."It's arithmetic".


For 2013, we just got worse.

Speculation...do you know Levitre wouldn't pull a Fitz and turtle up under Marrone and the new offense? No, you don't. Let's see how Levitre pans out in Tennessee, shall we?


Fans are getting WAY too far ahead of themselves, fussing over the cap. Get real.

Yes, because the salary cap is totally irrelevant. Completely. And the current roster is just so stacked with talent from top to bottom that it makes sense to shoot an 8mil $ wad per season on a guard.

[coastal]

Defensive end has a much more tangible impact to the game than the left guard.


That's just how it is. The Titans overpayed for him. Steve Hutchenson was an AMAZING guard. And he was still on quite a few crappy teams and never won a super bowl. I don't care if he's "our best player" (which he's not) you do not, pay a guard, 8 million dollars a season.


If u say so Capt. Commander...

[fluteflakes]

The god damn Patriots shoot through guards like hot cakes and never miss a freaking beat. The Saints brought in TWO top tier guards last year and STILL sucked.

A guard doesn't make a giant god damn impact on the team. A great guard is a nice thing to have, but you do not, you DO NOT, cripple the long term stability of the team to pay one 8 million god damn dollars.

[jimmifli]

The god damn Patriots shoot through guards like hot cakes and never miss a freaking beat. The Saints brought in TWO top tier guards last year and STILL sucked.

A guard doesn't make a giant god damn impact on the team. A great guard is a nice thing to have, but you do not, you DO NOT, cripple the long term stability of the team to pay one 8 million god damn dollars.
The Saints offense was awful.

[trapezeus]

bills fans have totally forgotten how maddening the jauron bills were with their crap OL's.

Having a running threat was having good running backs, but also getting good blocking. how is it possible that fred jackson was pretty good with jauron and crappy lines, but then was on record pace two years ago with a solidfied and gelled unit.

This has the makings of a new line that can't get it done and a rookie getting thrown in too early because he isn't a day 1 starter.

I hated losman by the end, but at times, i could say "he probably wasn't a day 1 starter and could have blossomed with sitting on bench with proper guidance. he didn't get that. got hit routinely, and never found a groove. we are getting set up for this 2005-2009 bills all over again. it's disgusting.

[fluteflakes]

Their passing offense was fine, but they barely had any run game, and yes, tying up all that money on two guards crippled the amount they could pay for defensive players, and they only had the worst defense in NFL history...

[coastal]

Since when has my point been that guards win Superbowls?

My point is and has always been that you build successful organizations by paying the people that perform and lopping off those that don't.

have you ever the heard the 10-80-10 ratio of business mgmt? It goes like this... 10% of your organization pull the train, 80% do their jobs and are along for the ride, and the other 10% drag the train.

a good manager rewards the 10% that's pulling the train, incentivizes the 80% who are along for the ride and lop off the 10% who are dragging the train.

letting Levitre goes is the opposite of that. Signing Mario is the opposite of that. Paying Chris Kelsay is the opposite of that... and on and on and on!

But keep pretending like this is Madden franchise mode and enjoy the team you all deserve!

like I said... idiots.

[DynaPaul]

Would have loved to have kept him but we just can't justify that sort of money. I wish him well. He's rich biiiiitttccchh!

[MikeInRoch]

"Oh cool, Andy Levitre is gone! Thank God we got rid of our best lineman! Another brilliant move by the wizards at OBD! Love those guys!"

Find me one person who is happy Levitre is gone.

[MikeInRoch]

Since when has my point been that guards win Superbowls?

My point is and has always been that you build successful organizations by paying the people that perform and lopping off those that don't.

have you ever the heard the 10-80-10 ratio of business mgmt? It goes like this... 10% of your organization pull the train, 80% do their jobs and are along for the ride, and the other 10% drag the train.

a good manager rewards the 10% that's pulling the train, incentivizes the 80% who are along for the ride and lop off the 10% who are dragging the train.

letting Levitre goes is the opposite of that. Signing Mario is the opposite of that. Paying Chris Kelsay is the opposite of that... and on and on and on!

But keep pretending like this is Madden franchise mode and enjoy the team you all deserve!

like I said... idiots.

I see. So because someone doesn't happen to agree with you - that means they'll get a team that's less good. Ummm, no. None of our opinions actually change that one way or another. Thinking it does makes you the idiot.

[YardRat]

have you ever the heard the 10-80-10 ratio of business mgmt? It goes like this... 10% of your organization pull the train, 80% do their jobs and are along for the ride, and the other 10% drag the train.

a good manager rewards the 10% that's pulling the train, incentivizes the 80% who are along for the ride and lop off the 10% who are dragging the train.

letting Levitre goes is the opposite of that. Signing Mario is the opposite of that. Paying Chris Kelsay is the opposite of that... and on and on and on!

Except in the NFL, where you could end up paying 1% pulling the train too much money and the cuts have to come from the other 9% pulling and upper part of 80% 'along for the ride'.

The Ravens Express has been derailed, ponying up for Flacco and already losing Ellerbe, Kruger and Boldin with many to follow. Glad they won the Super Bowl and they've got that in their pocket, but they are completely ****ed until they get out from under the Flacco contract, unless he can run the whole damn train by himself.

[coastal]

I see. So because someone doesn't happen to agree with you - that means they'll get a team that's less good. Ummm, no. None of our opinions actually change that one way or another. Thinking it does makes you the idiot.who pays the salaries of every employee of the Buffalo Bills?

[cookie G]

Their passing offense was fine, but they barely had any run game,

they were 6th in the league last year in rushing. 4th in ypc.



and yes, tying up all that money on two guards crippled the amount they could pay for defensive players, and they only had the worst defense in NFL history...

And yet they just franchised one player on that worst defense in NFL history...and gave a 2nd stringer/draft bust a 5 year contract.

I love this plan!

[MikeInRoch]

who pays the salaries of every employee of the Buffalo Bills?

TV networks.

[cookie G]

my prediction for his replacement...

Tori Mobley, G, Jacksonville St.

6'2" 285, rated 99th out of 221 guards

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69335&draftyear=2013&genpos=OG

[Crisis]

I think we'll end up regretting not extending him sooner but at this price tag it makes losing him a much easier pill to swallow.

Titan fans are already saying he can play G/C... they're in for a surprise if they think they're getting someone who can move over to center and play at the same level

[SABURZFAN]

:chuckle:

you ladies need to calm down. if the Bills draft a Guard to replace Levitre, they'll be just fine. instead of blowing big money on a Guard who isn't a perennial Pro Bowler, they can focus on other areas of the team that are weaker. there's plenty of time and players to get this team better.

[coastal]

Except in the NFL, where you could end up paying 1% pulling the train too much money and the cuts have to come from the other 9% pulling and upper part of 80% 'along for the ride'.

The Ravens Express has been derailed, ponying up for Flacco and already losing Ellerbe, Kruger and Boldin with many to follow. Glad they won the Super Bowl and they've got that in their pocket, but they are completely ****ed until they get out from under the Flacco contract, unless he can run the whole damn train by himself.
It's a valid point... the salary cap raises challenges but its not very different from having to operate from within a budget to achieve the organization's goal.

Funny u bring up the Ravens to validate your point however. I remember before they inked Flacco there were reports about them possibly tagging him, letting another team sign him, and then accepting the draft pick compensation.

The rationale behind this was their goal is to not just compete once a decade for a Bowl but to do so year in and year out.

in the end they realized that QBs almost certainly have to be a part of your pulling 10%, but even more than that... Flacco really was the guy that got them over the hump this year. He beat the Pats in the second half of the AFC Championship game and put the Ravens out from early on in the Superbowl.. and then sealed the deal.

flacco pulled the Ravens train to a Superbowl and was named MVP... he earned his contract.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Defensive end has a much more tangible impact to the game than the left guard.

That's just how it is. The Titans overpayed for him. Steve Hutchenson was an AMAZING guard. And he was still on quite a few crappy teams and never won a super bowl. I don't care if he's "our best player" (which he's not) you do not, pay a guard, 8 million dollars a season.


The god damn Patriots shoot through guards like hot cakes and never miss a freaking beat. The Saints brought in TWO top tier guards last year and STILL sucked.

A guard doesn't make a giant god damn impact on the team. A great guard is a nice thing to have, but you do not, you DO NOT, cripple the long term stability of the team to pay one 8 million god damn dollars.

At this point you are just throwing random crap at the wall to justify this decision. Hutchinson didn't make the refs botch Seattle's SB game and didn't make the Vikings turn over the NFCCG either. He was a dominant player on some of the most dominant OLines in NFL history. Chris Snee is listed as the highest paid guard in the NFL at the moment, and the guy has two rings, so there's a counter example.

And the Patriots "shoot through guards like hot cakes"? What? These are the Pats opening day OG starters since 2001

2001: Mike Compton & Joe Andruzzi
2002: Compton & Andruzzi
2003: Damien Woody & Andruzzi (Compton leaves as FA)
2004: Andruzzi & Steve Neal (Woody leaves as FA)
2005: Logan Mankins & Neal (Andruzzi leaves as FA)
2006: Mankins & Neal
2007: Mankins & Neal
2008: Mankins & Neal
2009: Mankins & Neal
2010: Mankins & Neal
2011: Mankins & Brian Waters (Neal retires)
2012: Mankins & Connelly (Waters holds out to demand a trade)

So that's, by my count, 7 different starters at OG in 12 full seasons with Mankins and Connolly under contract for the next two years at least. They haven't intentionally let a starting guard walk in seven years.

[X-Era]

Draft a guy like Brian Winters

[Crisis]

At this point you are just throwing random crap at the wall to justify this decision. Hutchinson didn't make the refs botch Seattle's SB game and didn't make the Vikings turn over the NFCCG either. He was a dominant player on some of the most dominant OLines in NFL history. Chris Snee is listed as the highest paid guard in the NFL at the moment, and the guy has two rings, so there's a counter example.

And the Patriots "shoot through guards like hot cakes"? What? These are the Pats opening day OG starters since 2001

2001: Mike Compton & Joe Andruzzi
2002: Compton & Andruzzi
2003: Damien Woody & Andruzzi (Compton leaves as FA)
2004: Andruzzi & Steve Neal (Woody leaves as FA)
2005: Logan Mankins & Neal (Andruzzi leaves as FA)
2006: Mankins & Neal
2007: Mankins & Neal
2008: Mankins & Neal
2009: Mankins & Neal
2010: Mankins & Neal
2011: Mankins & Brian Waters (Neal retires)
2012: Mankins & Connelly (Waters holds out to demand a trade)

So that's, by my count, 7 different starters at OG in 12 full seasons with Mankins and Connolly under contract for the next two years at least. They haven't intentionally let a starting guard walk in seven years.

How much money are their guards making?

[cookie G]

How much money are their guards making?

Mankins gets around $10 million a year.

When Waters left last year, they offered him $4 million to come back.

[JoeMama]

That's debatable.

What planet do you live on that it's even remotely debatable?

Eric Wood is probably our most naturally gifted lineman, sure, but he gets catastrophically injured every year and winds up on the IR.

It's like the Trailblazers saying Greg Oden was their best player. He's not the best if he wasn't playing.


Of course it's a money issue. $39mil for a single guard takes that money out of the pot for other player acquisitions. You know, like Bill Clinton said..."It's arithmetic".

Yeah because it will be so easy to replace him.

You're running with the assumption that "We'll just grab another Levitre clone in the draft! No biggie!"

Of course it's a biggie. Our GM is borderline ****ing ******ed. Guys like Levitre don't grow on trees.


Speculation...do you know Levitre wouldn't pull a Fitz and turtle up under Marrone and the new offense? No, you don't. Let's see how Levitre pans out in Tennessee, shall we?

That assumes Fitz was "good" to begin with. So already your analogy is off to a sad start.

Levitre has 4 years of strong play under his belt. It's not like he's going to magically forget how to play football all of a sudden.

I think one can reasonably expect him to continue playing good football in Tennessee.


Yes, because the salary cap is totally irrelevant. Completely. And the current roster is just so stacked with talent from top to bottom that it makes sense to shoot an 8mil $ wad per season on a guard.

Please. Talk about false choices...

We have comparatively little money invested in the offensive line as a whole. We're banking on two young, mediocre prospects to shore up LT and/or RT (Glenn/Hairston). Both of whom are still under cheap rookie contracts for the next 2-3 years. Tackle is your "money" position and we don't need to pay our tackles with big bucks until much further down the road (assuming either guy turns out to be good, a long shot on this team).

We do have money to spend on the o-line without mortgaging the future. But it's moot now, isn't it?

You got your way. The YardRat strategy is sure to be a hit next season when Kraig Urbick and David Snow are stinking up the joint as our starting guards. Thank God we don't spend money on the offensive line! That would be terrible.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How much money are their guards making?

Mankins is making 6 years, 51 million with a $20 million signing bonus at the time, it made him the highest paid guard in the league. Connolly is on a 3 year 9.7 million dollar deal with 3.25 in bonus.

[YardRat]

What planet do you live on that it's even remotely debatable?

Tell you what...we'll just agree to disagree, and revisit this thread in the future and see how everything pans out.

I'm pretty comfortable with what my expectations are as far as Levitre ever attaining any post-season accolades or the Titans becoming a powerhouse because they signed him.

Crash and burn, that's what I'm seeing in the crystal ball.

[JoeMama]

Find me one person who is happy Levitre is gone.

There are plenty of fans who are "happy" to rationalize and defend every stupid thing OBD says or does.

Fans who get screwed by the lousy product Ralph puts on the field are often the ones who, inexplicably, don't think we should pay good players good money.

???

It's like watching a crappy episode of Cops where a battered wife is pleading with the police NOT to arrest her abusive husband.

[MikeInRoch]

There are plenty of fans who are "happy" to rationalize and defend every stupid thing OBD says or does.

Fans who get screwed by the lousy product Ralph puts on the field are often the ones who, inexplicably, don't think we should pay good players good money.

It's like watching a crappy episode of Cops where a battered wife is pleading with the police NOT to arrest her abusive husband.

That's not what I asked. No one is happy he is gone.

[jimbohastle51]

Now that we lost him, if we do not add some talent to both sides of the ball it will be ridiculous. I totally understand not paying him because we are signing other solid players but if we only bring in a couple second and third tier guys and don't spend money then I will be upset. Either pay your top lineman or use the money to get better not just to have bodies on the team.

[coastal]

TV networks.
Follow the bouncing ball.

[BillsFever21]

Tell you what...we'll just agree to disagree, and revisit this thread in the future and see how everything pans out.

I'm pretty comfortable with what my expectations are as far as Levitre ever attaining any post-season accolades or the Titans becoming a powerhouse because they signed him.

Crash and burn, that's what I'm seeing in the crystal ball.

Unless it's a big time elite franchise QB then not any one player is going to turn a team into a powerhouse or even make a huge impact just by themselves alone. You know it and so does everybody else but you're trying to be naive so if the Titans aren't 10 game winners next year you can try and use that to prove a flawed point just like you tried to with the one bad seasons from the Saints, Steelers and Giants even though they have 5 SB titles between them in the past 9 seasons.

It takes good coaching and an assembly of good players which is your core mixed in with some cheap good players on rookie contracts along with compliments to make up a good contending team. Name me a team filled with a bunch of backup level players as the core of their team that has won one Super Bowl let alone multiple ones. You can't because there isn't any.

It takes a core of good players playing together for continuity and leadership mixed in with the others listed above. You hope that your backup level players aren't starting or making around 5 million dollars a year like the Bills pay theirs. Good teams use middle or late round draft picks to fill them spots for 500k-1 million dollars instead of signing them to extensions or as FA's. They sign and keep their good young core around instead of having to keep replacing them in the draft and instead use their draft picks to fill in the holes with upgrades or cheaper players.

The one constant on our OL even as it has suffered multiple injuries over the years along with new players around him has been Levitre. Sure Levitre isn't the difference between winning or losing a SB but it's one of the good stable core players that teams need to become successful. You are trying to make it sound like he should be the difference in a Super Bowl victory or being a bad team. I don't think you drink the Kool-Aid that much to really believe that but who knows.

The Bills have been trying this method for years now without any success. Even a great QB can't turn a team into a powerhouse on their own. It takes great players and a great coaching staff around them too. The Bills seem to think a team of average veterans mixed in with some younger players is the key to success and that strategy hasn't even produced more then 6 wins. Judging by the Bills success I would think it's safe to say that EVERY other team in the NFL is better at building a team then Buffalo considering we're the worse team in the league this decade and beyond.

[BillsFever21]

Now that we lost him, if we do not add some talent to both sides of the ball it will be ridiculous. I totally understand not paying him because we are signing other solid players but if we only bring in a couple second and third tier guys and don't spend money then I will be upset. Either pay your top lineman or use the money to get better not just to have bodies on the team.

That's what the Bills will do with it. They think a couple dime a dozen veterans is better then one good player. Then we will use a draft pick to replace Levitre as usual since the Bills weren't smart enough to plan ahead. We just keep treading water.

[JoeMama]

That's not what I asked. No one is happy he is gone.

You responded to a fictitious quote and now you want a serious answer?

Fine I'll give you one.

If the homers on this forum are willing to rationalize or equivocate on behalf of OBD today, then they must be "happy" on some level.

Besides, it's a forum. It's not like I can see homers like you spitting up your Lucky Charms and doing a celebratory dance now that the looming salary cap crisis has been averted.

Whew, close call. For a second there I thought we were attempting to field a good team.

[Buddo]

Bah, **** happens.
Especially when you have to deal in finite numbers.
Ask the Ravens. They'll tell you.
Levitre is a very good player, but he's not a great player. Great players get $8 million a year. Very good ones, should be getting about $6 million. Levitre has lucked out, and the Bills haven't.
As soon as it was announced that Hutchinson was retiring, it was obvious that Levitre was going to end up a Titan, as their interest had already been noted. The Bills were never going to compete to the same level on the $ the Titans are going to pay him.
Nix and Whaley have shown they can find decent guards, with the pick ups of Urbik and Rinehart previously, I see no real reason to lose much sleep over this. It's just part of the way the NFL works.
You don't want to lose your 'very good' players, but it happens. What you don't do, is lose your 'great' ones. Imho, Levitre isn't, and will never quite qualify, as 'great'.

[YardRat]

Unless it's a big time elite franchise QB then not any one player is going to turn a team into a powerhouse or even make a huge impact just by themselves alone. You know it and so does everybody else but you're trying to be naive so if the Titans aren't 10 game winners next year you can try and use that to prove a flawed point just like you tried to with the one bad seasons from the Saints, Steelers and Giants even though they have 5 SB titles between them in the past 9 seasons.

The logic is flawed. When did they win the Super Bowl, when did they throw big money at guards, when did they miss the playoffs?


It takes good coaching and an assembly of good players which is your core mixed in with some cheap good players on rookie contracts along with compliments to make up a good contending team. Name me a team filled with a bunch of backup level players as the core of their team that has won one Super Bowl let alone multiple ones. You can't because there isn't any.

Granted, but there are a plethora of examples of teams that after a coaching switch have taken similar rosters and turned around from losers to winners. Most recently, San Fran was a scrap heap...until the under-achieving 'back-up' players ended up being the core of the team that has gone to two conference championship games and a Super Bowl appearance.


It takes a core of good players playing together for continuity and leadership mixed in with the others listed above. You hope that your backup level players aren't starting or making around 5 million dollars a year like the Bills pay theirs. Good teams use middle or late round draft picks to fill them spots for 500k-1 million dollars instead of signing them to extensions or as FA's. They sign and keep their good young core around instead of having to keep replacing them in the draft and instead use their draft picks to fill in the holes with upgrades or cheaper players.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If everybody kept re-signing their 'good, young core', than the market for good, young FA's wouldn't be what it is.


The one constant on our OL even as it has suffered multiple injuries over the years along with new players around him has been Levitre. Sure Levitre isn't the difference between winning or losing a SB but it's one of the good stable core players that teams need to become successful. You are trying to make it sound like he should be the difference in a Super Bowl victory or being a bad team. I don't think you drink the Kool-Aid that much to really believe that but who knows.

Granted, and no....I know Levitre isn't the difference between a bad team and a Super Bowl victory...that's exactly why he isn't worth 8mil per year.


The Bills have been trying this method for years now without any success. Even a great QB can't turn a team into a powerhouse on their own. It takes great players and a great coaching staff around them too. The Bills seem to think a team of average veterans mixed in with some younger players is the key to success and that strategy hasn't even produced more then 6 wins. Judging by the Bills success I would think it's safe to say that EVERY other team in the NFL is better at building a team then Buffalo considering we're the worse team in the league this decade and beyond.

Debatable. They've tried the other routes (Walker, Dockery et al) and they didn't work...if there's one thing we all know from the last 13 or so seasons, it's not like the Bills front office has actually drafted too many players that are worth re-signing after their rookie contracts, but that doesn't automatically make Levitre worth being overpaid.

[Parzival]

Bah, **** happens.
Especially when you have to deal in finite numbers.
Ask the Ravens. They'll tell you.
Levitre is a very good player, but he's not a great player. Great players get $8 million a year. Very good ones, should be getting about $6 million. Levitre has lucked out, and the Bills haven't.
As soon as it was announced that Hutchinson was retiring, it was obvious that Levitre was going to end up a Titan, as their interest had already been noted. The Bills were never going to compete to the same level on the $ the Titans are going to pay him.
Nix and Whaley have shown they can find decent guards, with the pick ups of Urbik and Rinehart previously, I see no real reason to lose much sleep over this. It's just part of the way the NFL works.
You don't want to lose your 'very good' players, but it happens. What you don't do, is lose your 'great' ones. Imho, Levitre isn't, and will never quite qualify, as 'great'.

Just to piggy back a little on your post, I too have been impressed with the play of guys like Urbik, Reinhardt and Pears. I hate losing Levitre, I just feel like if you draft a guy and he actually plays well you have to keep a guy like that. But with the fact that he is gone I feel like we can find a guard to step in, Doug Marrone's played oline and coached oline for a long time as well so I trust in him fielding a good OLine during his tenure here.

[BillsFever21]

Except in the NFL, where you could end up paying 1% pulling the train too much money and the cuts have to come from the other 9% pulling and upper part of 80% 'along for the ride'.

The Ravens Express has been derailed, ponying up for Flacco and already losing Ellerbe, Kruger and Boldin with many to follow. Glad they won the Super Bowl and they've got that in their pocket, but they are completely ****ed until they get out from under the Flacco contract, unless he can run the whole damn train by himself.

Great example to use when it's the Super Bowl champions that have been in the hunt for the past 5 years or so. So I guess not even signing a QB to big money is worth it even though it was a ton for him. I suppose having a bunch of average players will do that job then.

I'd much rather be in their shape then ours. If you never spend the money to keep your good homegrown players you will never be successful. Any great team has their window of opportunity before it needs to be dismantled due to aging players or cap reasons. Unless you're a team like the Patriots that can continue to find players AHEAD of time that can step in and fill the voids.

I know it must suck to be them. Poor bastards only won the Super Bowl and been to three AFC Championship games in the past 5 years. I'm sure they would most definitely rather be the Bills right now. This has to be one of the worse examples you could possibly use.

Any team who has a successful QB eventually has to pay them and that time came for the Ravens. I suppose they should've let him walk for Ryan Fitzpatrick or somebody like that. As long as their front office can prove to be able to continue bringing in successful draft picks to fill the voids then they will still be a good team. They won the Super Bowl at the end of their window and now they need to go through transition. A good managed team will be able to do it and a bad one like the Bills won't even get off the ground to begin with.

Ellerby and Kruger are good players but they are not at the top of their position where a good front office wouldn't be able to find somebody to take their place. There are many Ellerby's and Kruger's in the NFL. I guess the better idea would've been to get rid of Flacco and keep Kruger and Ellerby instead and then sign Fitzpatrick or draft another QB. That would've definitely kept them on top.

[fluteflakes]

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora
Levitre's deal with TEN, 6yrs $46.8M. Whopping $13M in 2013, $19.5M o er 1st 2 yrs of deal ...

[better days]

If they kick Glenn inside I doubt you see much of a fall off. I really think you're over reacting to the situation. Just let it play out and see what happens.


If they kick Glenn inside I doubt you see much of a fall off...............................well, except at LT.

[YardRat]

Any team who has a successful QB eventually has to pay them and that time came for the Ravens. I suppose they should've let him walk for Ryan Fitzpatrick or somebody like that. As long as their front office can prove to be able to continue bringing in successful draft picks to fill the voids then they will still be a good team. They won the Super Bowl at the end of their window and now they need to go through transition. A good managed team will be able to do it and a bad one like the Bills won't even get off the ground to begin with.

Ellerby and Kruger are good players but they are not at the top of their position where a good front office wouldn't be able to find somebody to take their place. There are many Ellerby's and Kruger's in the NFL. I guess the better idea would've been to get rid of Flacco and keep Kruger and Ellerby instead and then sign Fitzpatrick or draft another QB. That would've definitely kept them on top.

At any cost?

Hell, they still might not be done losing players. Anybody that thinks Flacco would have an MVP trophy and Super Bowl ring without Boldin, Ellerbe, Kruger, Ed Reed etc just isn't thinking straight.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

At any cost?

Hell, they still might not be done losing players. Anybody that thinks Flacco would have an MVP trophy and Super Bowl ring without Boldin, Ellerbe, Kruger, Ed Reed etc just isn't thinking straight.

Do you think the Ravens sniff the Super Bowl with a random QB at the helm? They never would have made it out of Denver if Flacco's arm-cannon didn't keep shelling Denver's pass defense.

This isn't 2000. The Ravens did not win that bowl with defense and run game.

[YardRat]

Do you think the Ravens sniff the Super Bowl with a random QB at the helm? They never would have made it out of Denver if Flacco's arm-cannon didn't keep shelling Denver's pass defense.

This isn't 2000. The Ravens did not win that bowl with defense and run game.

Don't know, that would be pure speculation on both of our parts, and I don't want to diminish Flacco's play because he did have an excellent post-season but on the other hand he certainly didn't do it on his own either.

I could play that game with a single player, also...if it weren't for Boldin completely manning-up in the post season and making the opposing secondaries his little *****es every time Flacco just threw one up for grabs in his direction, Flacco wouldn't have a ring, a trophy, and would probably be shopping his huge contract around the league while the Ravens waited to see if it was worth the money to keep him or not.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Don't know, that would be pure speculation on both of our parts, and I don't want to diminish Flacco's play because he did have an excellent post-season but on the other hand he certainly didn't do it on his own either.

I could play that game with a single player, also...if it weren't for Boldin completely manning-up in the post season and making the opposing secondaries his little *****es every time Flacco just threw one up for grabs in his direction, Flacco wouldn't have a ring, a trophy, and would probably be shopping his huge contract around the league while the Ravens waited to see if it was worth the money to keep him or not.

It's a team sport, so yeah Boldin helped, as did Torrey Smith. But come on man, Flacco just put together one of the greatest runs in postseason history. 11 touchdowns to one turnover against TWO top 5 pass defenses? That's completely absurd.

Baltimore tried to sign Flacco last year and he turned them down, gambling on a big year. He won. They lost, and they paid up.

[YardRat]

It's a team sport, so yeah Boldin helped, as did Torrey Smith. But come on man, Flacco just put together one of the greatest runs in postseason history. 11 touchdowns to one turnover against TWO top 5 pass defenses? That's completely absurd.

Baltimore tried to sign Flacco last year and he turned them down, gambling on a big year. He won. They lost, and they paid up.

He had a great post season, not disputing that.

Do you think the Ravens go all of the way without all of the clutch catches Boldin made?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

He had a great post season, not disputing that.

Do you think the Ravens go all of the way without all of the clutch catches Boldin made?

No, but what's your point? Are you suggesting they let Flacco walk to keep guys like Boldin and Ellerbe?

[JoeMama]

Zonerz (to coastal): I knew u were trouble when u walked in, so shame on me now! Flew me to places I've never been. Now Im lying on the cold hard ground. Oh, oh trouble, trouble trouble!


http://youtu.be/v7PNRKpMYKQ

LULZ!

That's how Levitre broke the news to Nix that he wasn't coming back.

WEEEEE ARE NEVERRRRR NEVERRRRR GETTING BACK TOGETHER!!!

Taylor Swiftboaters for truth unite.

[justasportsfan]

we're all saying the same thing thing when we let Winfield, PAt Williams, etc. go. "they're not worth that much" and then 5-6 years from now we'll be saying " we should've kept them"

[BillsFever21]

The god damn Patriots shoot through guards like hot cakes and never miss a freaking beat. The Saints brought in TWO top tier guards last year and STILL sucked.

A guard doesn't make a giant god damn impact on the team. A great guard is a nice thing to have, but you do not, you DO NOT, cripple the long term stability of the team to pay one 8 million god damn dollars.

The Patriots shoot through guards like hotcakes? Logan Mankins have been the staple of their guard position for years. There hasn't been much turnover at all with their guard spot and there hasn't been ANY turnover with their main guard Logan Mankins. Do you look the information up before you make the assertions?

Outside of a QB not any one player makes a "giant god damn impact" on a team. It's about keeping your good homegrown players around and letting the rest walk. It's not like the Bills have had that many or have many of them under a contract extension.

If crippling the franchise paying one of the Top 5-10 guards in the NFL 8 million dollars a year but it's not crippling the franchise by paying 5 million dollars a year for a #3 CB who has never produced anything in the NFL outside of special teams. There are many CB's on the FA market and in the end we probably could've gotten either McKelvin back at a lowered price or an upgrade to him for around the same price.

And most likely if the Bills were a smart organization they either would've had Levitre locked up last year with an extension for a much cheaper price or drafted somebody to develop as his replacement. At the very least they probably could've worked out an extension with him before FA started at received a better price on the deal.

The entire issue isn't just about one guard position. It's about the Bills letting their good players go and using the money to sign a couple backup level players that wouldn't be starting with most of the other NFL teams outside of Buffalo and never making an impact. Players that could've easily been replaceable in the middle rounds of the draft or an upgrade in the higher rounds all at a cheaper price. They have been trying this method for years now and it hasn't worked yet.

With the 8 million dollars that Levitre signed for the savings from not re-signing him we used on McKelvin for 5 million dollars a year and Manny Lawson for 3 million dollars a year. Both are average at best players that hasn't made a big impact in the NFL that could've easily been replaceable in the draft at a much cheaper price and odds are they would've been better players. McKelvin is a #3 level CB and Lawon is at best a 3rd down pass rusher who only has 18 sacks in 7 years in the NFL. He's never had more then 51 solos tackles in the NFL and over the past two years he only has around 90 tackles with 61 of them solo. With that obviously his run support isn't very much and at best all you can hope for him to be is a pass rusher who averages less then 3 sacks a season.

We didn't even use that money to get Byrd to a contract extension yet. If he goes into the season playing on the franchise tag after they let Levitre walk over money that will be even more proof of what a joke this front office is. When all they would have to show for that money is a #3 CB and a LB that wouldn't start on most teams in the NFL.

The ones who says it's great to let him go to get more important impact players at more important positions hasn't developed yet. We have spent the 8 million dollars but we don't have any impact players to show for it. Just a couple dime a dozen players that easily replaceable in the draft. It's not like we went out and go an Ellerby, Kruger, Goldson, Wallace or some of the other better FA's with it.

Some will defend every move that OBD makes to the very end even though their track record for success is obviously proven to be a pathetic accomplishment and strategies used. So where is the impact player that we could use to upgrade the team with the money at a more important skilled position? It isn't there because the Bills have done what they are always known for. Sign a bunch of average at best players where they don't have to guarantee much money to and still be eating money after they are gone and hope for different results.

Eight million dollars in cap money is the same amount whether you spend it on one good homegrown talent or a couple backup level players on the majority of teams in the NFL. Now we are left having to draft an OL as a replacement and because they still didn't get any impact players at CB or LB we're still not improved any in them areas. That will mean we are still drafting LB's in the draft to try and find some high level starters not to mention other positions we didn't use the money to upgrade.