Seriously now...Levitre's contract [Archive] - BillsZone.com

YardRat

03-12-2013, 08:14 PM

YardRat

03-12-2013, 08:17 PM

****. Could a mod fix the typo in the poll, please? Thanks in advance.

The Jokeman

03-12-2013, 08:17 PM

We all know that initial reports on contracts, more often than not, aren't necessarily the most accurate and it usually takes a few days (or even weeks) for the details to emerge, but from what we've seen so far with the two reports (5 years, $39mil and 6 years, $46.8mil), are those the kind of numbers that you think the Bills should have ponied up for Andy, or do you think Tennessee paid too much and the team was right to let him walk?

Until the Bills make some moves I can't make any complete comments but honestly at this point I would vote the Titans severely overpaid.

better days

03-12-2013, 08:21 PM

We all know that initial reports on contracts, more often than not, aren't necessarily the most accurate and it usually takes a few days (or even weeks) for the details to emerge, but from what we've seen so far with the two reports (5 years, $39mil and 6 years, $46.8mil), are those the kind of numbers that you think the Bills should have ponied up for Andy, or do you think Tennessee paid too much and the team was right to let him walk?

Well, we know where you stand on that issue. Now we get to see how easy it is to replace Levitre with someone CHEAP. And if his replacement is a draft pick, that is a WASTED pick that could have been used to fill a hole we already had.

venis2k1

03-12-2013, 08:21 PM

When you sign a Free agent in the first 5 minutes of the new league year, you generally overpay....

YardRat

03-12-2013, 08:24 PM

Well, we know where you stand on that issue. Now we get to see how easy it is to replace Levitre with someone CHEAP. And if his replacement is a draft pick, that is a WASTED pick that could have been used to fill a hole we already had.

Yes, my stance on the issue is well documented, but that's not the point. Let's see how the majority of the board feels.

better days

03-12-2013, 08:33 PM

Yes, my stance on the issue is well documented, but that's not the point. Let's see how the majority of the board feels.

Fine. I just can't wait to see how EASY & CHEAP it will be to replace Levitre as you have told us all.

elltrain22

03-12-2013, 08:34 PM

I was definetley a proponent for keeping Levitre. Good player, that is in the prime of his career. However, if the roles were reversed, and I heard the Bills resigned Levitre for that kind of insane money, I'd be very worried that we just spend way too much money on a position that isn't nearly as important as QB.

better days

03-12-2013, 08:37 PM

And If the Bills draft a Guard to replace Levitre, I can't wait until the end of the season so I can say we could have drafted so & so instead of that Guard if we had resigned Levitre.

BillsFever21

03-12-2013, 08:44 PM

And If the Bills draft a Guard to replace Levitre, I can't wait until the end of the season so I can say we could have drafted so & so instead of that Guard if we had resigned Levitre.

Nah that's a brilliant idea. Some people's strategy is just that. Let Levitre walk because it's easy to find good guards and then use a draft pick in the first two or three rounds to replace him. I've even heard some say we could draft one in the first round to replace him. Just repeat that and ask yourself if it makes any sense.

DraftBoy

03-12-2013, 08:49 PM

Don't Panic

03-12-2013, 08:52 PM

And If the Bills draft a Guard to replace Levitre, I can't wait until the end of the season so I can say we could have drafted so & so instead of that Guard if we had resigned Levitre.

What if the guard we draft is an improvement and a better fit than Levitre and the $$$ we save get used on other areas of need?

bills4ver

03-12-2013, 09:04 PM

doesn't that make Levitre the top paid OG in the league?

He sure as heck is not the Best or top 5, no way I pay him that kind of money that's for LT, QB, WR, RB, CB

better days

03-12-2013, 09:09 PM

What if the guard we draft is an improvement and a better fit than Levitre and the $$$ we save get used on other areas of need?

What round are you talking about? The first rnd? The second rnd? The higher the round a Guard is picked, the more players I can say see, we could have had this guy or that guy if the Bills resigned Levitre.

If the Bills draft a Guard in the 4th or 5th rnd that is better than Levitre, you will probably have a point.

better days

03-12-2013, 09:15 PM

Said it before but that is way too much money for any interior OL. I still think kicking Glenn inside is the best option, said it when he was drafted last year. Glenn has the potential to be better than Levitre in a short period of time.

Glenn had a very good rookie year at LT & outplayed every rookie LT in his class IMO. You have no way of knowing if a LT drafted this year will be as Good as Glenn at LT. There were a number of disapointments at OT last year that were drafted.

And as I have said about drafting a Guard, If the Bills draft a Tackle, that is a pick that could have been used to fill a hole. There is NO hole now at LT.

The Jokeman

03-12-2013, 09:21 PM

Glenn had a very good rookie year at LT & outplayed every rookie LT in his class IMO. You have no way of knowing if a LT drafted this year will be as Good as Glenn at LT. There were a number of disapointments at OT last year that were drafted.

And as I have said about drafting a Guard, If the Bills draft a Tackle, that is a pick that could have been used to fill a hole. There is NO hole now at LT.

Leonard Davis started his career as a LT due to need but was eventually moved to LG and excelled so stop thinking so inside the box. As right now we have a hole at LG which could be filled by a guy who projected as a great G prospect in Glenn which then leads us a hole at LT and why not take a prospect the predicts to be above average if we can? I mean if we use your arguement we should never had drafted Glenn last year as we had a LT in Hairston and a RT in Pears already in place.

TedMock

03-12-2013, 09:28 PM

Drafting a guard doesn't necessarily mean we have to forego filling another hole. It's not a clean direct correlation that can be realistically implied at this moment. We really have to see how the roster looks after FA, draft and, if any, trades before we can talk about missed opportunities with the OLG spot. No matter what, it's hard to say $8 mil / year on a guard is a great move.

Pinkerton Security

03-12-2013, 09:28 PM

When whoever fills in for him is getting run over, you'll be wishing we overpaid for one our best o-lineman and another talent we let slip away from Buffalo.

better days

03-12-2013, 09:34 PM

Leonard Davis started his career as a LT due to need but was eventually moved to LG and excelled so stop thinking so inside the box. As right now we have a hole at LG which could be filled by a guy who projected as a great G prospect in Glenn which then leads us a hole at LT and why not take a prospect the predicts to be above average if we can? I mean if we use your arguement we should never had drafted Glenn last year as we had a LT in Hairston and a RT in Pears already in place.

Well, the difference is Glenn is a GOOD LT, Hairston is not. Drafting Glenn UPGRADED the LT position. I have been told Guard is an EASY & CHEAP position to fill, so why move a GOOD LT to Guard & draft someone that we have no Idea will be as good as Glenn let alone better.

We have far too many holes to waste VALUABLE draft picks on a position where we already have a GOOD player.

JoeMama

03-12-2013, 09:41 PM

Callously brushing Andy Levitre aside after four years of diligent, effective performance is more than a bad personnel decision. It's symptomatic of a broader lack of direction.

1) Nix said our plan was to build the team through the draft and retain homegrown talent. This was the blueprint for the re-emergence of the Buffalo Bills we were told. It sounded nice but would require some patience. Fine. Most Bills fans agreed this sounded nice and let's see what happens.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Nix handled this situation in exactly the opposite fashion.

Plus, letting Levitre walk uncontested sends a unmistakable, clairvoyant message to the players. "We don't care if you work hard, do whatever your coaches say, and play well. You're expendable."

You can't help but think players are just going to use Buffalo as a springboard to GET THE HELL OUT the second their rookie contracts are up.

Not a smart way to build a winning culture.

2) OBD knew this was the final year of Levitre's contract. They also knew he was going to command a decent salary (maybe not quite as high as early reports indicate). With this in mind, did OBD conjure up a contingency plan? Did they have anyone waiting in the wings? Did they set aside money to find a replacement?

The answer is "Sort of, but not really." OBD threw 15 mil at Kraig Urbick (who's bad at football, for anyone who's wondering) and re-signed David Snow. Then they called it a day. The drop in talent couldn't be more pronounced.

3) If OBD knew Levitre was as good as gone, why didn't they avoid the tag and just lock in Jairus Byrd with a good contract? The asking price is only going to go up by 2014 barring a severe injury.

And why did we throw 20 mil at a CB nobody wants? If McKelvin played for any other team he'd be labeled a gigantic bust. He's a 5th (almost 6th) year player who was drafted 11th overall. Despite this, he's spent the lion's share of his career as a backup. AS A BACKUP. On a roster as pathetic as ours, that's almost criminal.

There's just no thought involved in OBD's decisions. There's no plan. Every move they make is a desultory orgy of mismanagement. I'll be shocked if Buffalo even has an NFL team in three more years. It just gets worse and worse with these buffoons.

DraftBoy

03-12-2013, 09:43 PM

Glenn had a very good rookie year at LT & outplayed every rookie LT in his class IMO. You have no way of knowing if a LT drafted this year will be as Good as Glenn at LT. There were a number of disapointments at OT last year that were drafted.

And as I have said about drafting a Guard, If the Bills draft a Tackle, that is a pick that could have been used to fill a hole. There is NO hole now at LT.

1. He didn't outplay Kalil or come even close to doing so. Schwartz also has to be in that conversation. It was a really bad OT class overall.
2. No just as you don't have any way of knowing Glenn will be as good as he was this year, which was not great by any extent.
3. I disagree, I don't think Glenn is a long term answer at LT, never have and many people agree. Glenn at RT or inside at OG makes the most sense for him.

TacklingDummy

03-12-2013, 09:50 PM

8 million for a guard is laughable.

better days

03-12-2013, 10:06 PM

1. He didn't outplay Kalil or come even close to doing so. Schwartz also has to be in that conversation. It was a really bad OT class overall.
2. No just as you don't have any way of knowing Glenn will be as good as he was this year, which was not great by any extent.
3. I disagree, I don't think Glenn is a long term answer at LT, never have and many people agree. Glenn at RT or inside at OG makes the most sense for him.

1. Kalil is the only OT drafted that has played as well as Glenn & he was expected to be the stud tackle in the class. MANY others that were rated ahead of Glenn did not play as well.
2. Glenn had a good not great ROOKIE year at LT. But then how many LTs have GREAT years as a ROOKIE? Very few.
3. Time will tell, but I think Glenn has the quickness & athleticism to play LT in the NFL for a long time.

And as I said, with all the holes the Bills have, it is a waste of a draft pick to use it on a position already filled by a GOOD player.

BillsFever21

03-12-2013, 10:28 PM

8 million for a guard is laughable.

5 million for a backup #3 at best CB is even more laughable. A CB that has proven since he was drafted that he isn't any good and was continuously moved down the pathetic roster we already have. William Gay signed for 3 years and 4.5 million. Throw in McKelvin's return abilities and that shouldn't have gotten him anymore then 2.5-3 million a year on average. Not his first year salary but on average. Every contract starts off with a low first year salary.

Mike

03-13-2013, 02:42 AM

Fine. I just can't wait to see how EASY & CHEAP it will be to replace Levitre as you have told us all.

It won't be easy. At one point the Bills paid mega $$$ for the redskins guard! They should never have drafted Livitre on the first day! Why? If your not going to resign a player if he reaches such success as to be a top 5 highest paid in his position might as well never bother a player that will leave in 3 years.

If he is a QB, LT, DE, CB you will pay it. So it's worth a day1 pick. A guard apparently not. They better not take Warmack @ 8

Mike

03-13-2013, 02:48 AM

Fine. I just can't wait to see how EASY & CHEAP it will be to replace Levitre as you have told us all.

doesn't that make Levitre the top paid OG in the league?

He sure as heck is not the Best or top 5, no way I pay him that kind of money that's for LT, QB, WR, RB, CB

No it's not!!! Top QB: $20M/yr, Top DE $17M+/yr, WR/CB: $15M+/yr,
You get the idea!

Buddo

03-13-2013, 05:37 AM

Paying Levitre $8 million a year, is elite money. Levitre isn't elite. Simple as.
He's very good, especially in pass protection, but he doesn't shift bodies out of the way like an elite guard does. Watch some of Mankins play late on in the last couple of seasons, and you can see the difference.
Overpaying gets teams into all sorts of sh1t. We've recently done it with Fitz, and have to suffer some consequences of that. What you don't do is compound the problem.
Once we start letting our truly great players go, then we have a problem. Levitre isn't, or even about to become a 'great' of the game.

BertSquirtgum

03-13-2013, 05:44 AM

Fixxxer

03-13-2013, 06:00 AM

And If the Bills draft a Guard to replace Levitre, I can't wait until the end of the season so I can say we could have drafted so & so instead of that Guard if we had resigned Levitre.

If we draft a guard it won't be early and it will be an OT with maybe poor measurables. Given his draft philosophy, Nix will never draft a guard with a premium draft pick.

Buddo

03-13-2013, 06:15 AM

There's a lot of talk about kicking Glenn inside, but I'd be more interested in doing that with Hairston, tbh. I don't know if that's a viable option, but we do still have the kid who was stashed on IR, to possibly become the swing tackle backup. There's also a lot of good OT prospects in the draft.

DraftBoy

03-13-2013, 06:21 AM

1. Kalil is the only OT drafted that has played as well as Glenn & he was expected to be the stud tackle in the class. MANY others that were rated ahead of Glenn did not play as well.
2. Glenn had a good not great ROOKIE year at LT. But then how many LTs have GREAT years as a ROOKIE? Very few.
3. Time will tell, but I think Glenn has the quickness & athleticism to play LT in the NFL for a long time.

And as I said, with all the holes the Bills have, it is a waste of a draft pick to use it on a position already filled by a GOOD player.

1. Well you're first point was that no other rookie OT played better so whether Kalil was expected to or not he did
2. I don't want good, I want great, who wouldn't? Also Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Ryan Clady just to name a few more recent OT's who were drafted and were great in Year 1.
3. I think we are wasting his potential and hurting ourselves long term.

I think the idea that putting just good players in positions and considering them set is settling and how you become a team that can't win the big game. You get too comfortable with being ok and not dead set on being the best. Pats model is the best model.

- - - Updated - - -

There's a lot of talk about kicking Glenn inside, but I'd be more interested in doing that with Hairston, tbh. I don't know if that's a viable option, but we do still have the kid who was stashed on IR, to possibly become the swing tackle backup. There's also a lot of good OT prospects in the draft.

Not sure he has the functional strength to play inside.

better days

03-13-2013, 07:54 AM

1. Well you're first point was that no other rookie OT played better so whether Kalil was expected to or not he did
2. I don't want good, I want great, who wouldn't? Also Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Ryan Clady just to name a few more recent OT's who were drafted and were great in Year 1.
3. I think we are wasting his potential and hurting ourselves long term.

I think the idea that putting just good players in positions and considering them set is settling and how you become a team that can't win the big game. You get too comfortable with being ok and not dead set on being the best. Pats model is the best model.

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure he has the functional strength to play inside.

To move Glenn inside would be to waste his potential even if he plays Great there because he could have developed into a very good if not great LT & a LT is harder to find than a Guard. So yeah, move him to guard then in 3 years the Bills will have to replace him.

BertSquirtgum

03-13-2013, 08:41 AM

To move Glenn inside would be to waste his potential even if he plays Great there because he could have developed into a very good if not great LT & a LT is harder to find than a Guard. So yeah, move him to guard then in 3 years the Bills will have to replace him.

He was serviceable at LT last year. He could be great at guard.

better days

03-13-2013, 08:46 AM

He was serviceable at LT last year. He could be great at guard.

He was a ROOKIE last year. He should be much better at LT this year with a years experience under his belt. And if he is moved inside to Guard, if he is great there, he will be gone in 3 short years as a FA.

BertSquirtgum

03-13-2013, 08:53 AM

better days

03-13-2013, 09:09 AM

Not necessarily. He would be a power guard. Levitre was more of a finesse guard. Not really good at the run game but great at pass protection. Marrone runs the ball right up the gut and needs strong lineman in the middle.

If he is moved to Guard, he will be gone in 3 years in FA & you guys will say good riddance, no need to overpay a Guard.

BillsFever21

03-13-2013, 04:22 PM

It won't be easy. At one point the Bills paid mega $$$ for the redskins guard! They should never have drafted Livitre on the first day! Why? If your not going to resign a player if he reaches such success as to be a top 5 highest paid in his position might as well never bother a player that will leave in 3 years.

If he is a QB, LT, DE, CB you will pay it. So it's worth a day1 pick. A guard apparently not. They better not take Warmack @ 8

Especially if you're still a crappy team with many other holes and are trying to build a team. You might as well save them top draft picks for other positions. Unless we're ever in the position that we're a contending team and we're set at many of the other positions but we need to upgrade areas like guard, etc, then we better not draft any in the higher rounds. We might as well try and good some highly skilled positions players out of it.

YardRat

03-13-2013, 04:24 PM

Pretty over-whelming results so far.

Generalissimus Gibby

03-13-2013, 04:30 PM

Yet another stupid FA decision regarding our linemen. Oh well, at least we have a history of **** moves regarding the OL

1994: Let House go so we can have Condo
2003: Let Ruben Brown go for not liking losing and being critical of manboobs
2007: Address the OL by signing the worst possible free agents
2009: Let Jason Peters go
2013: Let Levitre go so we can resign a guy with brittle knees.

jimmifli

03-13-2013, 04:33 PM

Pretty over-whelming results so far.
80% of fans have agreed with everything the Bills have done for the last 15 years.

Mr. Pink

03-13-2013, 04:34 PM

You kick Glenn inside and sign or draft a tackle.

Doesn't necessarily mean with the 8th overall pick to draft a tackle either.

YardRat

03-13-2013, 04:39 PM

80% of fans have agreed with everything the Bills have done for the last 15 years.

Welcome to the BillsZone, Mr. Hyperbole.

Extremebillsfan247

03-13-2013, 04:43 PM

We all know that initial reports on contracts, more often than not, aren't necessarily the most accurate and it usually takes a few days (or even weeks) for the details to emerge, but from what we've seen so far with the two reports (5 years, $39mil and 6 years, $46.8mil), are those the kind of numbers that you think the Bills should have ponied up for Andy, or do you think Tennessee paid too much and the team was right to let him walk? Levitre while he was with the Bills was probably the most reliable interior lineman we had. But at the price Tennessee paid for him, it would have really hurt the Bills chances of improving the overall roster. I voted no.

better days

03-13-2013, 04:55 PM

Levitre while he was with the Bills was probably the most reliable interior lineman we had. But at the price Tennessee paid for him, it would have really hurt the Bills chances of improving the overall roster. I voted no.

Yeah, because the OL is not important at all. We can get by with scrubs there that will work for peanuts. The reality is OL is more dependent on CHEMISTRY between the players than any other unit in football. Levitre had an ability like no other, the ability to stay HEALTHY & on the field. No matter who the Bills get to replace him, I will bet they don't match that ability to NEVER miss a game.

BillsFever21

03-13-2013, 05:01 PM

Yeah, because the OL is not important at all. We can get by with scrubs there that will work for peanuts. The reality is OL is more dependent on CHEMISTRY between the players than any other unit in football. Levitre had an ability like no other, the ability to stay HEALTHY & on the field. No matter who the Bills get to replace him, I will bet they don't match that ability to NEVER miss a game.

I remember for years a lot of the people on this board acted that way with almost every position on the OL. It's was all about the QB or coaching making the OL look good and you could plug in any old scrub or late round draft pick.

After years of one of the WORST OL's in the NFL they finally *****ed for a couple years why we wouldn't invest any high draft picks into the OL. We finally did and created a good OL and then once they forgot about the past it was right back to just plugging anybody in. They will be the first to ***** if our OL goes to junk again.

YardRat

03-13-2013, 05:02 PM

His durability is a plus...pretty sure nobody is going to argue against that point.

jimmifli

03-13-2013, 06:26 PM

Welcome to the BillsZone, Mr. Hyperbole.

Thank you, nice to meet you, Mr. Argumentum Ad Populum.

cookie G

03-13-2013, 07:08 PM

I remember for years a lot of the people on this board acted that way with almost every position on the OL. It's was all about the QB or coaching making the OL look good and you could plug in any old scrub or late round draft pick.

After years of one of the WORST OL's in the NFL they finally *****ed for a couple years why we wouldn't invest any high draft picks into the OL. We finally did and created a good OL and then once they forgot about the past it was right back to just plugging anybody in. They will be the first to ***** if our OL goes to junk again.

No, those won't really *****. Well, they'll ***** about the OL, but will keep up with the "you can find anyone to play there" mantra.

What you'll see are things like this:

-when the The 7th round pick from Idaho St. Polytech JUCO rookie put into the starting line up can't block someone on his own, Wood will have to slide over to help. That's a problem, since Wood has to help Urbik. He has been for 2 years. Soo...when people start rushing through the middle, they are going to say "wow, Wood really sucks. There's no way you pay someone more than a million a year if he can't block 2 people at once"

-When Tenn. has a bad offensive day, you'll see someone bring up how bad they were, with the "wow, glad we didn't pay Levitre all that money, they only scored 14 points today."

You saw that a lot when Peters left...and the Bills had HOF'ers D. Bell and Kirk Chambers as our tackles. Someone would find an Eagles message board and say "see? Philly fans really hate the guy". Glad we have D. Bell!.

Of course, Peters went on to two more Pro Bowls, and the Eagles' line went to hell after he was injured. But there are still people who thought he sucked and Bell was better.

coastal

03-13-2013, 07:47 PM

Offensive linemen don't sell tickets

YardRat

03-13-2013, 07:55 PM

You saw that a lot when Peters left...and the Bills had HOF'ers D. Bell and Kirk Chambers as our tackles. Someone would find an Eagles message board and say "see? Philly fans really hate the guy". Glad we have D. Bell!.

Of course, Peters went on to two more Pro Bowls, and the Eagles' line went to hell after he was injured. But there are still people who thought he sucked and Bell was better.

Just for the record, I was in the minority that believed that Peters earned his pay day and should have gotten a commensurate LT contract from the team.