Bills have discussed Matt Flynn Trade

[mrbojanglezs]

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 1m
Jags, Bills, Raiders have discussed Matt Flynn trade. Could go down by the draft -

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/ja...-qb-matt-flynn (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/21953816/jaguars-bills-raiders-in-mix-for-seahawks-backup-qb-matt-flynn)


Jaguars, Bills, Raiders in mix for Seahawks backup QB Matt Flynn
March 26, 2013 9:21 pm ET

Several NFL sources have identified Jacksonville as the most likely destination for Seattle backup quarterback Matt Flynn, and the Jaguars are among the teams to talk to the Seahawks about a deal. Buffalo and Oakland are also in the mix, and though things have progressed slowly, sources said a trade could materialize before the draft.

Flynn was signed to a lucrative free-agent deal in Seattle a year ago but barely played last season while Russell Wilson emerged as a rookie sensation. The Seahawks have not hidden their desire to find value for Flynn and give him the opportunity to play elsewhere. Jags coach Gus Bradley knows Flynn from his time as Seattle's defensive coordinator. The Jags are looking for someone to push starter Blaine Gabbert, who has looked like a first-round bust to this point, and though they have veteran Chad Henne on the roster, the Jags are exploring other options, sources said. The Jags have abundant cap space.

All three of these teams could end up drafting a quarterback high next month, but they do have at least some interest in making a deal. The Seahawks might not be able to get more than a fourth- or fifth-round pick for Flynn, but after parting with a bounty in a trade for receiver Percy Harvin, they would obviously like to replenish some. However, the team won't give Flynn away as it prepares for what it hopes is a Super Bowl season.

The Raiders still could part ways with starter Carson Palmer, and, as I have long reported, will not pay him his scheduled $13 million for 2013. The Bills recently released former starter Ryan Fitzpatrick. Contact between the teams is expected to continue.

The market for available free-agent quarterbacks has largely dried up, with Jason Campbell, Kevin Kolb and Tyler Thigpen (whose athleticism leads some to believe he could be a fit for the Seahawks if/when they deal Flynn) among those still out there, but to this point the Bills, Raiders and Jaguars have not moved for any of them.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Perfect another backup qb who will doubtlessly be proclaimed as the next Jim Kelly, I hate this franchise right now.

[YardRat]

Pass.

[cookie G]

For a 5th, that would be fine for now.

Tavaris Jackson would be thinking..."what the frig do I need to do to get away from this guy?"

[clumping platelets]

Get Palmer as a FA and draft a QB of the future

[Parzival]

Didnt we already trade draft picks for Seattle's back up?

[mrbojanglezs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C8F0cWvAfo

[feldspar]

Due diligence...

Any sort of trade would have to include a restructuring of his contract, I would think.

I really think the Bills would be wise to pick up TWO more quarterbacks this offseason.

[feldspar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C8F0cWvAfo

I watched this game. Flynn played very well.

Now post the game that made the Bills give up a 1st and a 4th for Rob Johnson.

The point is that the sample size is WAY too small.

[mrbojanglezs]

I watched this game. Flynn played very well.

Now post the game that made the Bills give up a 1st and a 4th for Rob Johnson.

The point is that the sample size is WAY too small.

I agree.

[fluteflakes]

If it's our 6th, sure, WTF not. He's at least slightly more proven than any other QB on the market and might be a good stop gap.

That said, if it's anything more than a 6th we got screwed.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I watched this game. Flynn played very well.

Now post the game that made the Bills give up a 1st and a 4th for Rob Johnson.

The point is that the sample size is WAY too small.

And remember Ryan Fitzpatrick beat the pats in 2011.

[theanswer74]

I watched this game. Flynn played very well.

Now post the game that made the Bills give up a 1st and a 4th for Rob Johnson.

The point is that the sample size is WAY too small.
Big difference in getting Flynn for a mid round pick or lower. IMO the Bills would be stupid not getting Flynn for a mid-low round pick. It doesnt mean they pass on the QBs this year either.

[Mouldsie]

He is similar to Fitz IMO. Might as well add Barkely to the mix too! :(

[jamze132]

I'd trade a 5th to get Flynn and still draft a QB in RD1 or RD2.

Would love Carson Palmer as a stop gap until we can find a truly worthy QB of taking in RD1 or RD2.

[The King]

I like Flynn, as a starter? Not sure. But certainly as a back-up. The problem is the Bills do not want to part with draft picks.

SO they're really not in this mix unless his stock has dropped tremendously.

[streetkings01]

Trade a 5th for Flynn and draft Barkley #8. Both QBs fit the west coast offense perfectly...........let all 3 battle it out in a real QB competition and let the best man win. This team has one major hole and one major hole only........no QB! Every team with a franchise QB has holes........but they always have a chance at the playoffs because of the QB.

[don137]

Trading a 5th rounder for him would help from the stand point that they could either trade down in round one for more picks or get a stud player in round one and pick up QB like Manuel or Nassib in round two.

[DraftBoy]

I would of rather made a run at Drew Stanton who was a Free Agent.

[better days]

If the Bills could get Flynn for a 5th, I would be happy. About time the Bills got the better end of a trade with the Seahawks.

- - - Updated - - -


I would of rather made a run at Drew Stanton who was a Free Agent.

Well, TOO LATE for that.

[Jaybird]

I'll take Palmer over FLynn and draft a Qb as well (not in the first)

[coastal]

If Ryan Nassib, who played for Syracuse University, is worth a 2nd round pick... why isn't Flynn?

serious question.

[The King]

If Ryan Nassib, who played for Syracuse University, is worth a 2nd round pick... why isn't Flynn?

serious question.

Because the still need to draft a QB as well.

[better days]

If Ryan Nassib, who played for Syracuse University, is worth a 2nd round pick... why isn't Flynn?

serious question.

The contract, MONEY. Nassib or any other QB drafted even if drafted in the 1st rnd will make MUCH less than Flynn the next 4 or 5 years. Flynn is set to earn over $7 Million next season.

[Albany,n.y.]

If trading a mid-round pick for Flynn keeps the Bills from reaching for a QB in the 1st or 2nd round of this draft, I'm all for it.

I still think that this year's group is too weak to expect the Bills to come up with the 1 possible gem & get it right. A better plan would be bring in Flynn with the idea that next year is his tryout season. If he plays well the team will win games & he'll be the starter for years to come. If he falls flat on his face, the Bills will be drafting pretty high next year & stand a much better chance of getting a real franchise QB than their current status at pick 8. There are too many question marks in this years QB class to risk setting the franchise back another 3 years just because management feels pressured to draft a QB early to satisfy some fans desire for something new.

[trapezeus]

agreed with cookie....hilarious for TJax to think he finally has his chance to have to compete with the same guy brought in to replace him...again.

And no to flynn. he's not a sure thing. he didn't beat out a rookie....he is brohm. learned in a good environment and without the tools of coaching and WR, he won't be anything but a decent backup/frustrating starter.

I'd rather see us take two QB's in the draft.

[DraftBoy]

If Ryan Nassib, who played for Syracuse University, is worth a 2nd round pick... why isn't Flynn?

serious question.

One is better.

Serious answer.

[Albany,n.y.]

agreed with cookie....hilarious for TJax to think he finally has his chance to have to compete with the same guy brought in to replace him...again.

And no to flynn. he's not a sure thing. he didn't beat out a rookie....he is brohm. learned in a good environment and without the tools of coaching and WR, he won't be anything but a decent backup/frustrating starter.

I'd rather see us take two QB's in the draft.
Flynn is not Brian Brohm. Brohm was horrible in pre-season games & the 2 regular season games he started. I recall that in all the games he played, including pre-season, he never threw even 1 TD pass. Flynn has lit it up both in preseason & regular season games.
If the QB class is weak to begin with, why would anyone want to take 2 of them in a bad draft? I don't even want 1 of them.

[coastal]

One is better.

Serious answer.
Nassib is better than Flynn?

how so?

[mjt328]

Nassib is better than Flynn?

how so?

Because he played for our current head coach...

Don't you pay attention to this board?

[Night Train]

Flynn is due 7.5 Mil this year.

The Bills have to take a 3 Mil cap hit on Fitz this year, then another dead cap hit of 7 Mil next year. That burns up a lot of space for signing other positions of need.

So I'm not getting the Flynn idea at all. He was a 7th round pick and had 1 good mop up meaningless game in 2011 for Green Bay. Seattle found out a 3rd round rookie was a better option after they overpaid, but now he's 24K gold for us...


Got it..

[PTI]

Thigpen as primary backup for the Seahawks!! Wow. Actually I never thought he was as terrible as people said.

[Figster]

Flynn is due 7.5 Mil this year.

The Bills have to take a 3 Mil cap hit on Fitz this year, then another dead cap hit of 7 Mil next year. That burns up a lot of space for signing other positions of need.

So I'm not getting the Flynn idea at all. He was a 7th round pick and had 1 good mop up meaningless game in 2011 for Green Bay. Seattle found out a 3rd round rookie was a better option after they overpaid, but now he's 24K gold for us...


Got it..


I agree Night Train,


just say no to Flynn...

[Lexwhat]

The reality is we need TWO potential options at QB for the future. Flynn is really an unknown. While I don't think Flynn has as much potential as some of the rookie QBs coming out, I think he's worth a 6th round pick. If we draft some rookie QB with a 6th or 7th rounder, that guy is likely to be worse than Flynn.

Even with a Flynn trade, I think we need to draft a QB in either of the first 2 rounds this year (depending on availability).

I am not opposed to using 2 draft picks on 2 QBs.

[SpikedLemonade]

Taking on his salary via trade makes no sense.

If they release him, well that is a different story.

[Bill Cody]

Flynn is due 7.5 Mil this year.

The Bills have to take a 3 Mil cap hit on Fitz this year, then another dead cap hit of 7 Mil next year. That burns up a lot of space for signing other positions of need.

So I'm not getting the Flynn idea at all. He was a 7th round pick and had 1 good mop up meaningless game in 2011 for Green Bay. Seattle found out a 3rd round rookie was a better option after they overpaid, but now he's 24K gold for us...


Got it..

I'm not sure the cap situation is a big issue for us. And what Flynn gives you is a guy who is ready to play next year. It's not the end of the world if we draft a QB high, he looks ready to go and Flynn has a deja vu experience (oops sorry matt you're watching AGAIN).

But he gives you some valuable insurance at the most important position on the field. There is a very substantial chance that whatever QB we take will either not be ready or bust, folks need to accept this. And you could make a case that Manuel has the most upside of any QB in this draft. But is Manuel ready to play next year? hell no. Philadelphia is looking hard at Manuel in the early 2nd. You sign Flynn you could grab some extra picks and trade down to the bottom of the first. That's the value spot for QB's in this draft. I'd still take Geno at 8 but he may not be there.

[OpIv37]

I'm not sure the cap situation is a big issue for us. And what Flynn gives you is a guy who is ready to play next year. It's not the end of the world if we draft a QB high, he looks ready to go and Flynn has a deja vu experience (oops sorry matt you're watching AGAIN).

But he gives you some valuable insurance at the most important position on the field. There is a very substantial chance that whatever QB we take will either not be ready or bust, folks need to accept this. And you could make a case that Manuel has the most upside of any QB in this draft. But is Manuel ready to play next year? hell no. Philadelphia is looking hard at Manuel in the early 2nd. You sign Flynn you could grab some extra picks and trade down to the bottom of the first. That's the value spot for QB's in this draft. I'd still take Geno at 8 but he may not be there.

You don't think the cap issue is a big deal? If those numbers are right, it means we'll have $14.5 million in cap space tied up in the QB position to have Matt ****ing Flynn as the starter.

That's a pretty big deal. You can have a QB eating $14.5 million in cap if his name is Brady or Manning or Brees, not if it's Flynn.

[better days]

Thigpen as primary backup for the Seahawks!! Wow. Actually I never thought he was as terrible as people said.


Thigpen will NOT be a back up in Seattle & yes, he is TERRIBLE.

[Bill Cody]

You don't think the cap issue is a big deal? If those numbers are right, it means we'll have $14.5 million in cap space tied up in the QB position to have Matt ****ing Flynn as the starter.

That's a pretty big deal. You can have a QB eating $14.5 million in cap if his name is Brady or Manning or Brees, not if it's Flynn.

Time out. Fitz had to go and his dead money is what it is, period end of story. Now SOMEONE has to play the position, right? Or are you saying, "well we ate money on Fitz so let's go cheap on the QB to save cap space". That's crazy talk. And Flynn's contract is NOT ridiculous for a starting QB, far from it. My eyes tell me Flynn is better than Carson Palmer and Palmer will demand a lot more money. You can let Jackson play and we'll win 4 games. Or you can let a rookie play and he may not be ready but you have to play him because otherwise it's TJ. We are not in bad shape for the cap. Think this through. If you're saying you think Flynn is a bum that's one thing but this is a problem with no easy solutions. If you have one I'm listening. You've heard my take.

[DraftBoy]

Nassib is better than Flynn?

how so?

Age, Contract, ability...just about every way. What argument could you make that tells you Flynn is better? A single game in a vacuum?

[mightysimi]

I'll take Palmer over FLynn and draft a Qb as well (not in the first)

Why all this talk about Palmer. If we wanted an expensive QB to throw lots of picks, we could've kept Fitzpatrick.

[trapezeus]

Flynn is not Brian Brohm. Brohm was horrible in pre-season games & the 2 regular season games he started. I recall that in all the games he played, including pre-season, he never threw even 1 TD pass. Flynn has lit it up both in preseason & regular season games.
If the QB class is weak to begin with, why would anyone want to take 2 of them in a bad draft? I don't even want 1 of them.


flynn had a couple decent games. brohm never had that. agreed.

and agreed, not a great class, why go for two.

my first preference is to get OL and LB in the draft. however, if the bills take one qb, i wouldn't mind them taking two to send the message. "we don't have a great anything for you, but the other guy might just be hungrier, so perform or be replaced. there are no excuses. We suck, find a way to make it better."

one qb might not do well in that environment, but 1 of 3 just might.

[GingerP]

Age, Contract, ability...just about every way. What argument could you make that tells you Flynn is better? A single game in a vacuum?

Age and contract I'll give you, but ability? How is that known? It isn't like Nassib is some can't-miss progress with talent off the charts, he is pretty close to Flynn athletically.

Say what you want about Flynn, but the guy had a very good college career and was highly thought of in Green Bay. He always played well in preseason there.

Career numbers in real games: 87-for-141 (61.7%), 1,083 Yds (7.7 YPA), 9 TD, 5 Int, 92.0 QB Rating.

Is he unproven? Yes, but he is far more proven than Nassib. He has actual NFL experience and has played well when called upon. As much as everyone likes the Syracuse connection, Nassib isn't Andrew Luck. It is hard to fault Flynn because he was stuck behind the best QB in the NFL, then going to a team that drafted a very good young QB in Wilson. That doesn't mean he sucks.

They could do worse than getting Flynn, and the money doesn't seem crazy considering what QBs are getting. They wouldn't be tied to him long-term if it doesn't work out.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Flynn isn't a terrible option. His contract is reasonable and he's had success when he's stepped in.

But I don't see why Seattle would unload him to us for such a pittance. They are a bonefide Super Bowl contender and they would only save 1.7 million against the cap by dealing him away. Meanwhile, Wilson is cheap as hell but also small too. I think it would be silly of them to unload their QB insurance for a throwaway pick.

[PTI]

Flynn isn't a terrible option. His contract is reasonable and he's had success when he's stepped in.

But I don't see why Seattle would unload him to us for such a pittance. They are a bonefide Super Bowl contender and they would only save 1.7 million against the cap by dealing him away. Meanwhile, Wilson is cheap as hell but also small too. I think it would be silly of them to unload their QB insurance for a throwaway pick.
I agree, they should keep him for a while, until they have to pay WIlson a lot. If Wilson gets them into the playoffs with a deep run they might eve re-do his contract next year.

[OpIv37]

Time out. Fitz had to go and his dead money is what it is, period end of story. Now SOMEONE has to play the position, right? Or are you saying, "well we ate money on Fitz so let's go cheap on the QB to save cap space". That's crazy talk. And Flynn's contract is NOT ridiculous for a starting QB, far from it. My eyes tell me Flynn is better than Carson Palmer and Palmer will demand a lot more money. You can let Jackson play and we'll win 4 games. Or you can let a rookie play and he may not be ready but you have to play him because otherwise it's TJ. We are not in bad shape for the cap. Think this through. If you're saying you think Flynn is a bum that's one thing but this is a problem with no easy solutions. If you have one I'm listening. You've heard my take.

Um, if we have $14.5 million tied up in the QB position, how are we going to pay WR's to give the QB targets? How are we going to pay offensive linemen to protect him? Flynn is not the type of QB who can get it done on his own. He needs pieces around him to help him out, and we don't have those pieces. You put him back there with what we have now and he's a sitting duck. It means we wasted draft picks that we can't afford to give up in a trade.

You take that cap hit, and you are all but guaranteeing this team won't win until at least 2015, and that's assuming Flynn can actually play.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I agree, they should keep him for a while, until they have to pay WIlson a lot. If Wilson gets them into the playoffs with a deep run they might eve re-do his contract next year.

Apparently they aren't even allowed to re-do Wilson's contract until he's completed three seasons. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/20/report-russell-wilson-rep-asked-for-new-contract/) Which is when Flynn's contract expires. So it won't make sense IMO to deal Flynn or dump him until 2014 when the dead cap hit is minimal.

TJ Graham yayyyy

[The King]

At least they're exploring options...

[DraftBoy]

Age and contract I'll give you, but ability? How is that known? It isn't like Nassib is some can't-miss progress with talent off the charts, he is pretty close to Flynn athletically.

Say what you want about Flynn, but the guy had a very good college career and was highly thought of in Green Bay. He always played well in preseason there.

Career numbers in real games: 87-for-141 (61.7%), 1,083 Yds (7.7 YPA), 9 TD, 5 Int, 92.0 QB Rating.

Is he unproven? Yes, but he is far more proven than Nassib. He has actual NFL experience and has played well when called upon. As much as everyone likes the Syracuse connection, Nassib isn't Andrew Luck. It is hard to fault Flynn because he was stuck behind the best QB in the NFL, then going to a team that drafted a very good young QB in Wilson. That doesn't mean he sucks.

They could do worse than getting Flynn, and the money doesn't seem crazy considering what QBs are getting. They wouldn't be tied to him long-term if it doesn't work out.

Comparing their ability more to what Flynn was coming into the league v. what Nassib is. Edge Nassib imo.

[Mr. Pink]

Flynn being traded makes zero sense for the Seahawks.

Unless he's a locker room cancer and demands they move him out.

[PTI]

Apparently they aren't even allowed to re-do Wilson's contract until he's completed three seasons. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/20/report-russell-wilson-rep-asked-for-new-contract/) Which is when Flynn's contract expires. So it won't make sense IMO to deal Flynn or dump him until 2014 when the dead cap hit is minimal.

TJ Graham yayyyy

Did not know they had to wait 3 years to do this, thank you for the information.

[better days]

Apparently they aren't even allowed to re-do Wilson's contract until he's completed three seasons. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/20/report-russell-wilson-rep-asked-for-new-contract/) Which is when Flynn's contract expires. So it won't make sense IMO to deal Flynn or dump him until 2014 when the dead cap hit is minimal.

TJ Graham yayyyy

IF the Seahawks can TRADE Flynn, the money owed him will be off the Seahawks books & will be owed by the team that traded for him.

[TacklingDummy]

Didnt we already trade draft picks for Seattle's back up?

Seattle owes the Bills more for giving them Lynch for basically nothing.

[OpIv37]

Flynn being traded makes zero sense for the Seahawks.

Unless he's a locker room cancer and demands they move him out.

Well, if he's a locker room cancer, then the trade makes sense. Taking another team's back-up locker room cancer and using it as this team's starting locker room cancer would be consistent with what the Bills usually do.

[better days]

Well, if he's a locker room cancer, then the trade makes sense. Taking another team's back-up locker room cancer and using it as this team's starting locker room cancer would be consistent with what the Bills usually do.

I doubt Flynn is a cancer, BUT to have the back up QB make 10 times more money than the STARTING QB is a problem. And Wilson may not deal with that problem well. Aside from the Seahawks not having to pay out that money for a back up, it eliminates that problem as well.

[coastal]

Comparing their ability more to what Flynn was coming into the league v. what Nassib is. Edge Nassib imo.
So you're making **** up?

gotcha.

[The Jokeman]

The Raiders GM has ties to Green Bay hopefully he liked Flynn when he was there and they trade from him leaving one less time in the "Geno" Sweepstakes. Personally I don't like Flynn over any of the rookies and to be Travares Jackson is more proven than Flynn and a less riskier guy to go with as a starter in 2013 but ultimately I'd prefer the Bills get a guy like Coradelle Patterson in Round 1 of the draft and get a QB in Round 2 preferablye EJ Manuel.

[trapezeus]

don't forget that pete carroll is a blow hard and believes his luck is his magic.

i can see him not seeing seattle on a crash course to suckiness before RWilson. They made a number of odd trades for players who they subsequently cut. and they were running out of picks for drafts, but they hit it rich with wilson, and i can see him be like, "i can make 3rd round qb's good. let's trade flynn for picks and i'll pick up another one. and if injuries hit, i'll coach him to be just as good as i made wilson."

so yeah, i'm with you, flynn is a nice insurance option for seattle. i'm just saying, never under-estimate ego in the trade markets.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

IF the Seahawks can TRADE Flynn, the money owed him will be off the Seahawks books & will be owed by the team that traded for him.

No, if you trade a guy away then you eat the same cap hit as if he was cut that year. Even though the Ravens dealt Boldin, they still have to eat his dead cap figure.

Now, when you add up the cost of eating Flynn's dead cap plus the cost of finding a replacement, why would they take on this headache for a 5th or 6th round pick? They are super bowl contenders - they need a backup QB who is able to come in off the bench and win a game or two if Wilson goes down. Flynn has certainly shown that ability.

[DraftBoy]

So you're making **** up?

gotcha.

Yes clearly, because it takes a degree in rocket science to watch QB's play and say hey I think this guy is better.

And I know you watched Flynn at LSU.

[better days]

No, if you trade a guy away then you eat the same cap hit as if he was cut that year. Even though the Ravens dealt Boldin, they still have to eat his dead cap figure.

Now, when you add up the cost of eating Flynn's dead cap plus the cost of finding a replacement, why would they take on this headache for a 5th or 6th round pick? They are super bowl contenders - they need a backup QB who is able to come in off the bench and win a game or two if Wilson goes down. Flynn has certainly shown that ability.

When you trade a player, you also trade his contract. A trade & a CUT are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

[BillsFever21]

If we could get him for a 5th round draft pick I would take a chance on it. It couldn't hurt to see what he has. He didn't win the starting job but it's not like the rookie QB that did was a flop. Russel Wilson played great football and that's the way it goes sometimes.

His salary is an issue but if he didn't work out there wouldn't be any cap hit on our part since his bonus was already paid by the Seahawks. It will probably take a 4th round pick though. If we could get him for a 5th I would take the chance and also draft a QB in the 2nd round and have them compete. If Flynn wasn't the best option then we lose his salary for this season and that's it. The way this team drafts it's not like they are finding viable players in the 5th round to begin with and that player would probably be a backup at best.

[better days]

If we could get him for a 5th round draft pick I would take a chance on it. It couldn't hurt to see what he has. He didn't win the starting job but it's not like the rookie QB that did was a flop. Russel Wilson played great football and that's the way it goes sometimes.

His salary is an issue but if he didn't work out there wouldn't be any cap hit on our part since his bonus was already paid by the Seahawks. It will probably take a 4th round pick though. If we could get him for a 5th I would take the chance and also draft a QB in the 2nd round and have them compete. If Flynn wasn't the best option then we lose his salary for this season and that's it. The way this team drafts it's not like they are finding viable players in the 5th round to begin with and that player would probably be a backup at best.

Very few players drafted in the 5th rnd or even the 4th rnd become true stars. Most are back up jags at best. I would be happy to trade a 4th for Flynn. The Bills could then take BPA at #8 & if a QB they like is still available in the 2nd rnd draft him. If all the QBs they like are gone, they could then wait until next year to draft a QB if need be.

[JoeMama]

I like Matt Flynn more than any QB in this year's sorry excuse for a draft.

I think it would be ideal if we could land him for a 4th and/or 5th.

We'd probably just waste it on 2013's equivalent for Tim Euhus anyway.

[BillsFever21]

Very few players drafted in the 5th rnd or even the 4th rnd become true stars. Most are back up jags at best. I would be happy to trade a 4th for Flynn. The Bills could then take BPA at #8 & if a QB they like is still available in the 2nd rnd draft him. If all the QBs they like are gone, they could then wait until next year to draft a QB if need be.

That's exactly my thinking too. Especially with the Bills drafting in the middle rounds. They have a hard enough time trying to find viable starters in the first two or three rounds let alone in the 5th. Whoever we drafted with that spot would end up being roster fodder or a lousy starter pushed into that role only because of injuries or because we don't have anybody else.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

When you trade a player, you also trade his contract. A trade & a CUT are ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

Nope.

http://www.pressboxonline.com/blog/5823/Ravens-Trade-Anquan-Boldin-To-San-Francisco-49ers

Boldin, who is currently in Africa along with former Cardinals teammate Larry Fitzgerald on a relief mission, was scheduled to make a $6 million base salary in 2013 with a $7.5 million salary-cap hit. He had said he would retire as a Raven if the team released him in a cap-dump move.
...

According to reports, not all of Boldin's money comes off the books, but the Ravens will reportedly gain $6 million in cap room with the move, with the remaining $1.5 million going against the cap in dead money.



http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2013/03/nfl_free_agency_2013_dead_mone.php

So when a player gets a $10 million signing bonus on a five year deal, it counts $2 million against the cap each of the next five years. Now, the kicker (in the balls) is that when that player is traded or cut during a contract, all of that prorated bonus money in future years gets accelerated into the present year's spending total.

Hence, the concept of "dead money."

When a team decides it's time to call it a day on a certain player (whether it's by trading him or releasing him), they accept the fact that money spent on signing bonuses in previous years will come back to roost on the present year's cap, a necessary cost of doing business in the NFL.

The dead money is exactly the same whether he's cut or traded.

[better days]

Nope.

http://www.pressboxonline.com/blog/5823/Ravens-Trade-Anquan-Boldin-To-San-Francisco-49ers


http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2013/03/nfl_free_agency_2013_dead_mone.php


The dead money is exactly the same whether he's cut or traded.

YEP, the only SURE dead money is bonus money paid out. I read Flynn had $10 Million Guaranteed in his contract & that $2 Million is guaranteed for this year. I'm not sure if he has any money guaranteed for next year, but if not it means that his bonus would have been for $8 Million spread over 3 years. If the Seahawks cut him, they will be on the hook for the extra $2 Million Guaranteed, but if he is traded, they will not take that $2 Million dollar hit.

I also read in the link you provided that the Seahawks are #29 on the list of dead cap money, so they can well afford to take a hit for a few Million.

[BillsFever21]

YEP, the only SURE dead money is bonus money paid out. I read Flynn had $10 Million Guaranteed in his contract & that $2 Million is guaranteed for this year. I'm not sure if he has any money guaranteed for next year, but if not it means that his bonus would have been for $8 Million spread over 3 years. If the Seahawks cut him, they will be on the hook for the extra $2 Million Guaranteed, but if he is traded, they will not take that $2 Million dollar hit.

I also read in the link you provided that the Seahawks are #29 on the list of dead cap money, so they can well afford to take a hit for a few Million.

Whatever teams signs a player to a signing bonus is the team that pays for it. Whether they are traded or released the dead cap in the signing bonus money stays with the team that signed him and not the team that traded for him. The signing bonus money was already paid upfront and then it's just spread out evenly through the length of the contract. The Bills or any other team would be on the hook for his actual salary and any guaranteed money outside of the bonus money.

Usually the signing bonus along with the first year or two contract is the guaranteed money for a deal that was only three years and most of that money is in signing bonus money. His first year and maybe part of his second year salary was probably guaranteed along with his signing bonus. Since he is in the 2nd year of the contract then we basically wouldn't be on the hook for anymore then his salary this season. If we released him after this year then there wouldn't be any dead cap implications.

[BillsFever21]

He signed a 3 year - 19.5 million dollar contract with a 6 million dollar signing bonus and 10 million guaranteed. His base salary in his first year was two million so that leaves two million of his 5.25 million dollar base salary as guaranteed for this year. Any team that traded for him would owe him 5.25 million for this year and 6.25 million for next year. If he didn't make the team after the trade then whoever traded for him would owe him the final two million dollars. The other 4 million in dead cap from the signing bonus would fall on Seattle's cap for this year.

If somebody felt he had some talent then 11.5 million over the next two years isn't that bad of a price if the draft pick was reasonable. Even proven losers signed to be a backup QB gets a few million a year or so.

[better days]

Whatever teams signs a player to a signing bonus is the team that pays for it. Whether they are traded or released the dead cap in the signing bonus money stays with the team that signed him and not the team that traded for him. The signing bonus money was already paid upfront and then it's just spread out evenly through the length of the contract. The Bills or any other team would be on the hook for his actual salary and any guaranteed money outside of the bonus money.

Usually the signing bonus along with the first year or two contract is the guaranteed money for a deal that was only three years and most of that money is in signing bonus money. His first year and maybe part of his second year salary was probably guaranteed along with his signing bonus. Since he is in the 2nd year of the contract then we basically wouldn't be on the hook for anymore then his salary this season. If we released him after this year then there wouldn't be any dead cap implications.

Agreed, unless he has guaranteed money for next year. I could not find anything about his bonus, but everything I saw said he signed a contract for $10 Million of guaranteed money. Since we know $2 Million is guaranteed for next season, if his salary is not guaranteed next year, that would mean he got an $8 Million Dollar Bonus. Or maybe a $6 Million dollar bonus with $2 Million of his salary guaranteed his first year.

In any event, neither the Seahawks or any team that trades for Flynn will have much dead money tied up in him. I think he is a good value, much better than Alex Smith.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

YEP, the only SURE dead money is bonus money paid out. I read Flynn had $10 Million Guaranteed in his contract & that $2 Million is guaranteed for this year. I'm not sure if he has any money guaranteed for next year, but if not it means that his bonus would have been for $8 Million spread over 3 years. If the Seahawks cut him, they will be on the hook for the extra $2 Million Guaranteed, but if he is traded, they will not take that $2 Million dollar hit.

I also read in the link you provided that the Seahawks are #29 on the list of dead cap money, so they can well afford to take a hit for a few Million.

Their 2013 "Dead Cap" figure for Matt Flynn on spotrac is $6 million - $4 million in the bonuses and $2 million for the guaranteed salary if he's moved. His actual cap figure is $7.5 million. So, even assuming the best case - that the guaranteed salary wouldn't count against Seattle - they'd only save $3.5 million because the signing bonus still acclerates. Then they would have to turn around spend 1-2 million on a backup QB and the FA pickings are pretty darn slim (http://espn.go.com/nfl/freeagency/?year=2013&position=8&status=1)

So at the end of the day they'd take a significant downgrade at backup QB to gain what? A 5th round pick and less than $2 million in room? They are serious contenders this year, if I was in their shoes I would prefer the security of Flynn.

[BillsFever21]

Agreed, unless he has guaranteed money for next year. I could not find anything about his bonus, but everything I saw said he signed a contract for $10 Million of guaranteed money. Since we know $2 Million is guaranteed for next season, if his salary is not guaranteed next year, that would mean he got an $8 Million Dollar Bonus. Or maybe a $6 Million dollar bonus with $2 Million of his salary guaranteed his first year.

In any event, neither the Seahawks or any team that trades for Flynn will have much dead money tied up in him. I think he is a good value, much better than Alex Smith.

He got a 6 million dollar bonus and his salary was 2 million last year which was most likely all guaranteed so basically 2 million of his 5.25 million salary is guaranteed for this year whether he made the team or not. The rest of the dead cap from the signing bonus would be paid by Seattle which would be 4 million dollars.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/matt-flynn/


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[better days]

Their 2013 "Dead Cap" figure for Matt Flynn on spotrac is $6 million - $4 million in the bonuses and $2 million for the guaranteed salary if he's moved. His actual cap figure is $7.5 million. So, even assuming the best case - that the guaranteed salary wouldn't count against Seattle - they'd only save $3.5 million because the signing bonus still acclerates. Then they would have to turn around spend 1-2 million on a backup QB and the FA pickings are pretty darn slim (http://espn.go.com/nfl/freeagency/?year=2013&position=8&status=1)

So at the end of the day they'd take a significant downgrade at backup QB to gain what? A 5th round pick and less than $2 million in room? They are serious contenders this year, if I was in their shoes I would prefer the security of Flynn.

The bonus was $6 Million dollars, so that is the only money that counts as dead money for now. Of the $6 Million, $2 Million was paid LAST year. So the Seahawks owe $4 Million no matter what.

If the Seahawks trade Flynn, they would also trade his contract which the new team would assume. That team would have to pay him the $2 Million Guaranteed even if they cut him & his entire salary if they don't.

If the Seahawks cut him, They also would owe the $2 Million Guaranteed him, so they would owe $4 Million for the Bonus & $2 Million of the guaranteed salary.

The reason to TRADE him is Wilson is probably not too happy making so much less while he is the starter than his back up makes.

[The King]

Any trade for Flynn wont be happening until day 2 or 3 of the draft if at all.

[better days]

Any trade for Flynn wont be happening until day 2 or 3 of the draft if at all.

I read that SPECULATION as well.

[Bill Cody]

Um, if we have $14.5 million tied up in the QB position, how are we going to pay WR's to give the QB targets? How are we going to pay offensive linemen to protect him? Flynn is not the type of QB who can get it done on his own. He needs pieces around him to help him out, and we don't have those pieces. You put him back there with what we have now and he's a sitting duck. It means we wasted draft picks that we can't afford to give up in a trade.

You take that cap hit, and you are all but guaranteeing this team won't win until at least 2015, and that's assuming Flynn can actually play.

You have it backwards. if we have no QB we will lose. Still waiting on your solution. Or should we just field 10 guys on offense? That will free up even more money.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The bonus was $6 Million dollars, so that is the only money that counts as dead money for now. Of the $6 Million, $2 Million was paid LAST year. So the Seahawks owe $4 Million no matter what.

If the Seahawks trade Flynn, they would also trade his contract which the new team would assume. That team would have to pay him the $2 Million Guaranteed even if they cut him & his entire salary if they don't.

If the Seahawks cut him, They also would owe the $2 Million Guaranteed him, so they would owe $4 Million for the Bonus & $2 Million of the guaranteed salary.

The reason to TRADE him is Wilson is probably not too happy making so much less while he is the starter than his back up makes.

Wilson is a smart guy and not a prima donna. I'm sure he knows that the Seahawks' hands are tied under the new CBA - they cannot give him a raise by rule. It sucks that Flynn is making so much more money, but again if they dealt him the Hawks would be taking a significant downgrade at backup in a year where they are serious contenders for a title. Why would they do that? If Wilson goes down for 2-3 critical games, don't you think they'd want Flynn, a guy that's proven themselves as a spot starter and who would have two offseasons with the team under his belt vs. someone like Rex Grossman? They'd barely make any cap room from the move, so unless they were getting a major pick from the trade, I can't see why they'd do it.

And if the pick was good enough for Seattle to bite, it would be too high for me to want to take on that contract. I just don't see where there's room for a deal here.

[better days]

Wilson is a smart guy and not a prima donna. I'm sure he knows that the Seahawks' hands are tied under the new CBA - they cannot give him a raise by rule. It sucks that Flynn is making so much more money, but again if they dealt him the Hawks would be taking a significant downgrade at backup in a year where they are serious contenders for a title. Why would they do that? If Wilson goes down for 2-3 critical games, don't you think they'd want Flynn, a guy that's proven themselves as a spot starter and who would have two offseasons with the team under his belt vs. someone like Rex Grossman? They'd barely make any cap room from the move, so unless they were getting a major pick from the trade, I can't see why they'd do it.

And if the pick was good enough for Seattle to bite, it would be too high for me to want to take on that contract. I just don't see where there's room for a deal here.

Well, the contract may be too much for Seattle as well to pay for a BACK UP QB. And they could probably get a guy like Kolb much cheaper to back up Wilson. They don't have to go to the depths of Grossman.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, the contract may be too much for Seattle as well to pay for a BACK UP QB. And they could probably get a guy like Kolb much cheaper to back up Wilson. They don't have to go to the depths of Grossman.

Their owner is one of the richest men in human history so they don't need to worry about the actual cash, the issue is the cap room. They would save almost no cap by going to Kolb.

[better days]

Their owner is one of the richest men in human history so they don't need to worry about the actual cash, the issue is the cap room. They would save almost no cap by going to Kolb.

Well, they would save over $7 Million in cap space by trading Flynn this year. That is a lot of money that could be used on other players.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, they would save over $7 Million in cap space by trading Flynn this year. That is a lot of money that could be used on other players.

No, they wouldnt. Read the links I posted. The $4 million remaining in amortized signing bonus accelerates this year and counts against their cap regardless of whether they cut him or trade him. The $2 million in guaranteed salary I am not sure about. But even in the best case scenario for them they still are left with $4 million in dead cap, only $3.5 million in new space, and no backup QB.

[better days]

No, they wouldnt. Read the links I posted. The $4 million remaining in amortized signing bonus accelerates this year and counts against their cap regardless of whether they cut him or trade him. The $2 million in guaranteed salary I am not sure about. But even in the best case scenario for them they still are left with $4 million in dead cap, only $3.5 million in new space, and no backup QB.

If the Seahawks trade Flynn, they will have $4 Million in dead money which as I said they can well afford this year.

If they keep him, they will owe $2 Million for the bonus PLUS his salary of $7.25 Million for a total of $9.25 Million for the year. And they will still owe another $2 Million towards the bonus next year as well as his salary of $8.25 Million if they keep him next year.

So the savings would be $ 5.25 Million against the cap this year if the Seahawks trade him.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If the Seahawks trade Flynn, they will have $4 Million in dead money which as I said they can well afford this year.

If they keep him, they will owe $2 Million for the bonus PLUS his salary of $7.25 Million for a total of $9.25 Million for the year. And they will still owe another $2 Million towards the bonus next year as well as his salary of $8.25 Million if they keep him next year.

So the savings would be $ 5.25 Million against the cap this year if the Seahawks trade him.

You are a mile off. 7.25 and 8.25 are his respective cap hits, not his salary. Here's Flynn's cap figures (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/matt-flynn/)

He was paid a $6 million signing bonus. That money is already in his pocket. But the cap hit is spread over three years, so it counts $2 million this year and $2 million next year. If he's traded this year, than that whole $4 million accelerates and counts against the cap as dead money.

He's also getting $5.25 million in salary, of which $2 million is guaranteed. I believe that if he is cut, then Seattle pays the $2 million anyway and it counts against their cap, so the dead money is $6 million. If he's traded, I believe the new team inherits the guarantee and so it would come off Seattle's cap.

So if they keep him, he counts 7.25 million against their cap and earns 5.25 million in actual cash. If they trade him, he earns no actual cash from Seattle, but he still counts against their cap for $4 million (the amortized bonuses). Since the actual cash savings are basically meaningless to Paul Allen, the key element is the cap savings. 7.25 - 4 = 3.25 million. But then they have to go out and get another backup QB. If they go for any kind of quality at the backup QB position, they are looking at spending 1-2 million at minimum, cutting into the cap savings.

So why would they do it? There are only a handful of FAs left with even half a chance of cracking their starting roster, so they'd be trading away one backup at the most important position for another backup at a much less important position. And the pick would have even less of a chance of making the roster, unless it was a high pick.

[GingerP]

If the Seahawks trade Flynn, they will have $4 Million in dead money which as I said they can well afford this year.

If they keep him, they will owe $2 Million for the bonus PLUS his salary of $7.25 Million for a total of $9.25 Million for the year. And they will still owe another $2 Million towards the bonus next year as well as his salary of $8.25 Million if they keep him next year.

So the savings would be $ 5.25 Million against the cap this year if the Seahawks trade him.

His salary is $5.25M (not $7.25M), his cap number is $7.25M (salary + $2M bonus amortization).

If cut or traded he would count $4M in dead money (remaining uncharged SB amortization), so they would free up $3.25M in 2013 cap room.

[better days]

You are a mile off. 7.25 and 8.25 are his respective cap hits, not his salary. Here's Flynn's cap figures (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/matt-flynn/)

He was paid a $6 million signing bonus. That money is already in his pocket. But the cap hit is spread over three years, so it counts $2 million this year and $2 million next year. If he's traded this year, than that whole $4 million accelerates and counts against the cap as dead money.

He's also getting $5.25 million in salary, of which $2 million is guaranteed. I believe that if he is cut, then Seattle pays the $2 million anyway and it counts against their cap, so the dead money is $6 million. If he's traded, I believe the new team inherits the guarantee and so it would come off Seattle's cap.

So if they keep him, he counts 7.25 million against their cap and earns 5.25 million in actual cash. If they trade him, he earns no actual cash from Seattle, but he still counts against their cap for $4 million (the amortized bonuses). Since the actual cash savings are basically meaningless to Paul Allen, the key element is the cap savings. 7.25 - 4 = 3.25 million. But then they have to go out and get another backup QB. If they go for any kind of quality at the backup QB position, they are looking at spending 1-2 million at minimum, cutting into the cap savings.

So why would they do it? There are only a handful of FAs left with even half a chance of cracking their starting roster, so they'd be trading away one backup at the most important position for another backup at a much less important position. And the pick would have even less of a chance of making the roster, unless it was a high pick.

Yeah, my mistake you are right about the money. However, In REAL MONEY, the Seahawks would save $5.25 Million by trading him. If they cut him, they would have the $4 Million hit, plus another $2 Million hit for the guarantee on the salary this year so it would make zero sense to cut him. And I don't care how rich the owner is. The RICH do not like to give away their money. There is much speculation about his trade & when there is smoke there is usually fire. I quess we will see how this plays out.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Yeah, my mistake you are right about the money. However, In REAL MONEY, the Seahawks would save $5.25 Million by trading him. If they cut him, they would have the $4 Million hit, plus another $2 Million hit for the guarantee on the salary this year so it would make zero sense to cut him.

I agree they won't cut him, that would be insane.


And I don't care how rich the owner is. The RICH do not like to give away their money. There is much speculation about his trade & when there is smoke there is usually fire. I quess we will see how this plays out.

Oh I'm sure they are seeking offers, but I think they are hoping to get a high pick for him. I think it would take a 3rd, at least, to get them to take it seriously and at that price I don't know if I want him. People in this thread were saying we should toss them a 5th or 6th for Flynn and I cannot see why Seattle would go for that. The money they pay him this year isn't wasted, it's insurance. Flynn has demonstrated he's one of the best backups in the league. Why risk your title chances to save a few bucks? If I was Seattle, I wouldn't unless the payoff was really good.