Barkley at 8, Trading for Flynn, Kolb, Palmer......seriously?

[OpIv37]

This board has lost its' collective mind. The desperation for a QB has led to insanity.

Does anyone REALLY think that any of these moves would solve our QB problems? Flynn is a back-up who had a handful of decent starts. Rob Johnson anyone? We only have 6 draft picks and we'd have to give one up to get him, assuming Seattle is even willing to part with him.

Palmer is talented but well past his prime. At this point, he's a carbon copy of Fitz.

Kolb flat out sucks. Az ditched him presumably so they can take Geno. Then, since we can't take Geno, we take the guy that AZ ditched in favor of Geno. Sure, that makes sense.

Barkley at 8? Well, I can't guarantee that it won't work, but it's a long shot at best. California QB's have not fared well in Buffalo. And USC QB's, with the exception of Palmer, haven't fared well in the NFL recently (Leinart, Sanchez, Cassell). IMO, they are so used to having so much more talent than the competition at USC that they can't hack it when they have to face top level competition every week in the parity situation that exists in today's NFL. And Barkley specifically is coming off a season where his numbers dropped before getting hurt. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I know, I know, what's the alternative? What's my solution if none of these guys are right? The sad thing is, I don't have one. We need to just accept the reality that the QB we want/need simply available right now. It sucks, but it's the way things are. The only wise thing to do at this point is use our 2nd round pick on the best QB left (hopefully Nassib or Wilson are still there) and hope for the best. It's a long shot, but smarter than Barkley, Flynn, Kolb or Palmer.

[jdaltroy5]

My solution is Nassib at 8.

[The King]

We still need 2 QB's Brian, that's a huge issue, we can't go into the season assuming a guy who didnt get practice reps last year is a viable starter or back-up or whatever. So two moves are necessary, there will be more cuts and 100 more threads like this. The right move is signing a FA and drafting a QB but until both moves have been made this is what you're going to see.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

OP, you should take up motivational speaking. I fel so motivated after reading your post.

[sukie]

What about David Carr? or a 7th rounder for Clausen?

[Generalissimus Gibby]

What about David Carr? or a 7th rounder for Clausen?

Tim Couch perhaps?

[sukie]

See? Solutions abound. No worries.

[Mr. Pink]

Palmer would be like how we went out and got Bledsoe a decade ago, to be honest.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Palmer would be like how we went out and got Bledsoe a decade ago, to be honest.

Yeah, that signing turned us into world beaters. . . . Oh, wait. . . .

[OpIv37]

We still need 2 QB's Brian, that's a huge issue, we can't go into the season assuming a guy who didnt get practice reps last year is a viable starter or back-up or whatever. So two moves are necessary, there will be more cuts and 100 more threads like this. The right move is signing a FA and drafting a QB but until both moves have been made this is what you're going to see.

If that's what has to happen, fine, but we shouldn't even be entertaining they idea of a trade for someone like Flynn. We just don't have the draft picks to spare.

[jdaltroy5]

If that's what has to happen, fine, but we shouldn't even be entertaining they idea of a trade for someone like Flynn. We just don't have the draft picks to spare.
IMO we can pretty much spare any and all picks after the first round.

I think Buddy has drafted one starter in rounds 2-7 in the last three years.

[psubills62]

I would think Barkley is the only one anyone has touted as a solution. The others are seat-warmers, which is fine with me. Unless you get an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning, I'd prefer to sit a rookie QB for a season.

We need some sort of numbers at the position, wherever they come from. I personally don't see a real solution in this draft.

[Mahdi]

I put no stock into the history of the school he came from.

Flacco was a Blue Hen I believe. Also, one of the reasons Aaron Rodgers stock dropped was that he was perceived as a "Tedford effect" QB and wouldn't be as good in the NFL. Another angle is that he was a California QB and he handles the weather in GB just fine.

Every player needs to be evaluated on his own merit. I see a guy in Barkley who took a ton of snaps at USC, had a great JR. year and followed it up with a SR. year that was a drop-off but for different reasons.

The kid has talent, a good arm and he's smart.

[DraftBoy]

I put no stock into the history of the school he came from.

Flacco was a Blue Hen I believe. Also, one of the reasons Aaron Rodgers stock dropped was that he was perceived as a "Tedford effect" QB and wouldn't be as good in the NFL. Another angle is that he was a California QB and he handles the weather in GB just fine.

Every player needs to be evaluated on his own merit. I see a guy in Barkley who took a ton of snaps at USC, had a great JR. year and followed it up with a SR. year that was a drop-off but for different reasons.

The kid has talent, a good arm and he's smart.

Flacco was a Pitt Panther too for what is worth.

What are the different reasons you say Barkley had a drop off?

[Albany,n.y.]

The solution is to be honest with the fans. Let us know that the team realizes that it will not be able to solve the QB problem this year and that the best thing for their long term goals is to start Tarvaris Jackson and let the chips fall where they may. Draft the best available players and continue to build, knowing that they can't adequately fill the QB spot this year and there are enough holes at other positions that will need to be filled no matter who the QB is.
Then, after not over-reaching for a QB in this draft, in 2014 promise us that the team will do everything possible to get a top QB, either a veteran or a rookie in for the 2014 season. Go big in free agency in 2014.
Will it help sell tickets & calm fans down in 2013? Hell, no! But I'd rather wait a year than set the team back by drafting a QB who will never justify his drafting in the 1st place. Like it or not, this team is a mess & will either have to be the luckiest team in the NFL & find the next Russell Wilson in the 2nd or 3rd round, or be really bad next year. They could have continued on the path to 5-8 wins by keeping Fitz, but instead they decided to blow it up. It's time to accept that when you blow it up, you have to rebuild from the foundation up.

[jwenger]

My solution is Nassib at 8.

My solution is E.J.Manuel at 8. Why? Because he is >>> Nassib.

How about getting Johnny Manziel next year or more realistically Aaron Murray

Murray will hold ALL the passing records for a QB in the SEC and IS better then Nassib.

[Mahdi]

Flacco was a Pitt Panther too for what is worth.

What are the different reasons you say Barkley had a drop off?

He was hurried a lot more as a SR. Often was having to make throws under pressure. And his defense wasn't too good which was forcing him to make plays.

Matt Ryan had same issues coming out. Although Matt Ryan didn't have much of a WR corp.

[sukie]

Kelly Holcombe would be cheap and servicable

[X-Era]

Barkley at 8? Well, I can't guarantee that it won't work, but it's a long shot at best. California QB's have not fared well in Buffalo. And USC QB's, with the exception of Palmer, haven't fared well in the NFL recently (Leinart, Sanchez, Cassell).Agree on this. But, the same can be said for lots of schools. Florida, ND, Alabama, Ohio State... pretty much most of the top teams have had no recently successful NFL QB's.

Auburn- Newton- but who before that?
Baylor- RG3- Who before that?
Stanford- Luck- Who before that?
Florida State- Ponder- Same
Nevada- Kaep- Same
TCU- Dalton- Same

Where's the college that we should be drafting from? I really can't single one out.

QB is such a difficult position to evaluate how a prospect will fare.

[jdaltroy5]

My solution is E.J.Manuel at 8. Why? Because he is >>> Nassib.

How about getting Johnny Manziel next year or more realistically Aaron Murray

Murray will hold ALL the passing records for a QB in the SEC and IS better then Nassib.

So Aaron Murray and Johnny Manziel are going to be these super fantastic franchise changing prospects right?

So what are the odds that we have one of the top two picks to nab one of them?

[better days]

I put no stock into the history of the school he came from.

Flacco was a Blue Hen I believe. Also, one of the reasons Aaron Rodgers stock dropped was that he was perceived as a "Tedford effect" QB and wouldn't be as good in the NFL. Another angle is that he was a California QB and he handles the weather in GB just fine.

Every player needs to be evaluated on his own merit. I see a guy in Barkley who took a ton of snaps at USC, had a great JR. year and followed it up with a SR. year that was a drop-off but for different reasons.

The kid has talent, a good arm and he's smart.

Barkley proved at his pro day, he does NOT have a good arm. MEDIOCRE arm at best.

[OpIv37]

Agree on this. But, the same can be said for lots of schools. Florida, ND, Alabama, Ohio State... pretty much most of the top teams have had no recently successful NFL QB's.

Auburn- Newton- but who before that?
Baylor- RG3- Who before that?
Stanford- Luck- Who before that?
Florida State- Ponder- Same
Nevada- Kaep- Same
TCU- Dalton- Same

Where's the college that we should be drafting from? I really can't single one out.

QB is such a difficult position to evaluate how a prospect will fare.
But USC gets a lot of publicity. They win far more often than not, and they play in a very large city that has no pro team. So, there is a lot of attention and hype surrounding their QB's that often has nothing to do with whether they are actually legit NFL prospects. People get enamored with the numbers without stopping to think about the level of competition compared to the guys on the USC squad.

Does this mean that no USC QB can ever be successful? Of course not. But it just means that when FO's are evaluating USC QB's, they have to take a step back and make sure they are looking objectively and aren't simply caught up in the hype.

[User Manuel]

OP, I agree with you all the way until Barkley. The man has been a stud at every level of competition, dominate even. This man is not Rob johnson a backup who parlayed one game into a big contract or Matt Cassell who was him squared. This is a guy who won and won and made all the throws.

I get your concerns about the last year at USC, but Lane Kiffin is running a train wreck there, I don't think it relects on Barkley at all.

I hate USC as much as any guy who loves ND, but I know, and I think you do too, that if Barkley plays that game USC wins by 14 this year.

The man can flat out play. If Marrone is the coach we hope he is there is no reason he cant and won't suceed here.


This board has lost its' collective mind. The desperation for a QB has led to insanity.

Does anyone REALLY think that any of these moves would solve our QB problems? Flynn is a back-up who had a handful of decent starts. Rob Johnson anyone? We only have 6 draft picks and we'd have to give one up to get him, assuming Seattle is even willing to part with him.

Palmer is talented but well past his prime. At this point, he's a carbon copy of Fitz.

Kolb flat out sucks. Az ditched him presumably so they can take Geno. Then, since we can't take Geno, we take the guy that AZ ditched in favor of Geno. Sure, that makes sense.

Barkley at 8? Well, I can't guarantee that it won't work, but it's a long shot at best. California QB's have not fared well in Buffalo. And USC QB's, with the exception of Palmer, haven't fared well in the NFL recently (Leinart, Sanchez, Cassell). IMO, they are so used to having so much more talent than the competition at USC that they can't hack it when they have to face top level competition every week in the parity situation that exists in today's NFL. And Barkley specifically is coming off a season where his numbers dropped before getting hurt. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I know, I know, what's the alternative? What's my solution if none of these guys are right? The sad thing is, I don't have one. We need to just accept the reality that the QB we want/need simply available right now. It sucks, but it's the way things are. The only wise thing to do at this point is use our 2nd round pick on the best QB left (hopefully Nassib or Wilson are still there) and hope for the best. It's a long shot, but smarter than Barkley, Flynn, Kolb or Palmer.

[Mahdi]

Barkley proved at his pro day, he does NOT have a good arm. MEDIOCRE arm at best.

Pro day proves nothing for any QB.

Watch him play. He can make any throw. Scouts said the exact same thing about Matt Ryan. That his arm was average and he doesn't make the big throws. He makes any and every throw in the NFL.

[Mr. Pink]

Barkley = Colt McCoy

[better days]

But USC gets a lot of publicity. They win far more often than not, and they play in a very large city that has no pro team. So, there is a lot of attention and hype surrounding their QB's that often has nothing to do with whether they are actually legit NFL prospects. People get enamored with the numbers without stopping to think about the level of competition compared to the guys on the USC squad.

Does this mean that no USC QB can ever be successful? Of course not. But it just means that when FO's are evaluating USC QB's, they have to take a step back and make sure they are looking objectively and aren't simply caught up in the hype.

USC pretty much gets its pick of all the west coast prospects. Therefore the QBs were highly thought of coming out of HS & the USC QBS play with elite talent.

It is therefore amazing the number of them that flop in the NFL.

And I would trade a 4th rnd pick for Flynn. I doubt the Bills could draft anyone better in the 4th rnd.

[X-Era]

But USC gets a lot of publicity. They win far more often than not, and they play in a very large city that has no pro team. So, there is a lot of attention and hype surrounding their QB's that often has nothing to do with whether they are actually legit NFL prospects. People get enamored with the numbers without stopping to think about the level of competition compared to the guys on the USC squad.

Does this mean that no USC QB can ever be successful? Of course not. But it just means that when FO's are evaluating USC QB's, they have to take a step back and make sure they are looking objectively and aren't simply caught up in the hype.
I think it's important to look at the body of work. Cassel was a no year wonder, Sanchez was basically one year wonder. Barkley has been successful for years. Leinart had success for years but didn't work out in the NFL.

Cassel:

<tbody>
Year
Lge
Team
Age
#
GP
Comp
Att
%
Yds
TD
INT
TD%
INT%
Y/G
Y/A
RAT


2001 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2001)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
19
10
6
1
2
50.0
5
0
0
0.0
0.0
0.8
2.5
71.0


2002 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2002)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
20
10
10
3
4
75.0
27
0
0
0.0
0.0
2.7
6.8
131.7


2003 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2003)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
21
10
7
6
13
46.2
63
0
0
0.0
0.0
9.0
4.8
86.9


2004 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2004)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
22
10
9
10
14
71.4
97
0
1
0.0
7.1
10.8
6.9
115.3

</tbody>

Sanchez:

<tbody>
Year
Lge
Team
Age
#
GP
Comp
Att
%
Yds
TD
INT
TD%
INT%
Y/G
Y/A
RAT


2006 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2006)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
20
6
6
3
7
42.9
63
0
1
0.0
14.3
10.5
9.0
89.9


2007 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2007)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
21
6
8
69
114
60.5
695
7
5
6.1
4.4
86.9
6.1
123.2


2008 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2008)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
22
6
13
241
366
65.8
3207
34
10
9.3
2.7
246.7
8.8
164.6

</tbody>

Leinart:

<thead>
Year
Lge
Team
Age
#
GP
Comp
Att
%
Yds
TD
INT
TD%
INT%
Y/G
Y/A
RAT

</thead><tbody>
2003 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2003)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
20
11
13
255
402
63.4
3556
38
9
9.5
2.2
273.5
8.8
164.5


2004 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2004)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
21
11
13
269
412
65.3
3322
33
6
8.0
1.5
255.5
8.1
156.5


2005 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2005)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
22
11
13
283
431
65.7
3815
28
8
6.5
1.9
293.5
8.9
157.7

</tbody>

Barkley:

<tbody>
Year
Lge
Team
Age
#
GP
Comp
Att
%
Yds
TD
INT
TD%
INT%
Y/G
Y/A
RAT


2009 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2009)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
19
7
12
211
352
59.9
2735
15
14
4.3
4.0
227.9
7.8
131.3


2010 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2010)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
20
7
12
236
377
62.6
2791
26
12
6.9
3.2
232.6
7.4
141.2


2011 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2011)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
21

12
308
446
69.1
3528
39
7
8.7
1.6
294.0
7.9
161.2


2012 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2012)
NCAA
USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)
22

11
246
387
63.6
3273
36
15
9.3
3.9
297.5
8.5
157.6

</tbody>

[Skooby]

We don't have to trade for Kolb but we do need a back-up.

[Mahdi]

I think it's important to look at the body of work. Cassel was a no year wonder, Sanchez was basically one year wonder. Barkley has been successful for years. Leinart had success for years but didn't work out in the NFL.

Exactly,

Barkley took a lot of snaps for USC and overall was an excellent QB. In his last two seasons he has 75 TDs and 22 INTs that is a very good ratio and especially considering he was hurried a lot as a senior.

[better days]

I think it's important to look at the body of work. Cassel was a no year wonder, Sanchez was basically one year wonder. Barkley has been successful for years. Leinart had success for years but didn't work out in the NFL.

Cassel:

<tbody>
Year

Lge

Team

Age

#

GP

Comp

Att

%

Yds

TD

INT

TD%

INT%

Y/G

Y/A

RAT



2001 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2001)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

19

10

6

1

2

50.0

5

0

0

0.0

0.0

0.8

2.5

71.0



2002 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2002)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

20

10

10

3

4

75.0

27

0

0

0.0

0.0

2.7

6.8

131.7



2003 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2003)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

21

10

7

6

13

46.2

63

0

0

0.0

0.0

9.0

4.8

86.9



2004 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2004)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

22

10

9

10

14

71.4

97

0

1

0.0

7.1

10.8

6.9

115.3


</tbody>

Sanchez:

<tbody>
Year

Lge

Team

Age

#

GP

Comp

Att

%

Yds

TD

INT

TD%

INT%

Y/G

Y/A

RAT



2006 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2006)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

20

6

6

3

7

42.9

63

0

1

0.0

14.3

10.5

9.0

89.9



2007 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2007)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

21

6

8

69

114

60.5

695

7

5

6.1

4.4

86.9

6.1

123.2



2008 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2008)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

22

6

13

241

366

65.8

3207

34

10

9.3

2.7

246.7

8.8

164.6


</tbody>

Leinart:

<tbody>
Year

Lge

Team

Age

#

GP

Comp

Att

%

Yds

TD

INT

TD%

INT%

Y/G

Y/A

RAT



2003 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2003)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

20

11

13

255

402

63.4

3556

38

9

9.5

2.2

273.5

8.8

164.5



2004 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2004)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

21

11

13

269

412

65.3

3322

33

6

8.0

1.5

255.5

8.1

156.5



2005 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2005)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

22

11

13

283

431

65.7

3815

28

8

6.5

1.9

293.5

8.9

157.7


</tbody>

Barkley:

<tbody>
Year

Lge

Team

Age

#

GP

Comp

Att

%

Yds

TD

INT

TD%

INT%

Y/G

Y/A

RAT



2009 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2009)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

19

7

12

211

352

59.9

2735

15

14

4.3

4.0

227.9

7.8

131.3



2010 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2010)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

20

7

12

236

377

62.6

2791

26

12

6.9

3.2

232.6

7.4

141.2



2011 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2011)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

21


12

308

446

69.1

3528

39

7

8.7

1.6

294.0

7.9

161.2



2012 (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/Team_College.asp?id=156&Season=2012)

NCAA

USC Trojans (http://www.totalfootballstats.com/USCTrojans.asp)

22


11

246

387

63.6

3273

36

15

9.3

3.9

297.5

8.5

157.6


</tbody>


The fact Barkley is better than Cassel & Sanchez is not saying much at all. If those two guys were GOOD & Barkley was better than them, that would say SOMETHING about him. But they BOTH SUCK, so to say Barkley is better than them = SO WHAT.

[DraftBoy]

He was hurried a lot more as a SR. Often was having to make throws under pressure. And his defense wasn't too good which was forcing him to make plays.

Matt Ryan had same issues coming out. Although Matt Ryan didn't have much of a WR corp.

Not that its the end all be all but USC's OL did give up the 26th least sacks per game last year at 1.31. Which was the second lowest rate of Barkley's entire career at USC.

[TigerJ]

I agree with you on several points, Op. I'm only lukewarm on Barkley. If Buffalo is interested in him, I think they should consider him only after trading down from #8. I also would not trade for any of the retread QBs you mentioned. As you say there might be, I think there is a sense of desperation on the part of the Bills, as well as their fans to get a QB who gives them some hope. I would not have any problem signing one of the veteran QBs you mention (whichever one the Bills think is the best of the three), but not trading for him. The Bills also need to draft some QB early (1st 2 rounds) in the 2013 even if they sign a veteran.

[X-Era]

The fact Barkley is better than Cassel & Sanchez is not saying much at all. If those two guys were GOOD & Barkley was better than them, that would say SOMETHING about him. But they BOTH SUCK, so to say Barkley is better than them = SO WHAT.
It was in response to the notion that we shouldn't draft a USC QB because other USC QB's have sucked.

However, the Jets weren't the only team that had a 1st round grade on Sanchez. They liked him so much they moved up to get him. No one really saw Cassel as a legit NFL QB coming out. NE's great team made him look viable as a starter.

[better days]

It was in response to the notion that we shouldn't draft a USC QB because other USC QB's have sucked.

However, the Jets weren't the only team that had a 1st round grade on Sanchez. They liked him so much they moved up to get him. No one really saw Cassel as a legit NFL QB coming out. NE's great team made him look viable as a starter.

The Jets also PAID Sanchez with a new contract before they had to, much like the Bills & Fitz only a much worse contract for the Jets. Between the Sanchez contract & the Revis contract, it is no wonder their GM was fired. He SCREWED that team.

[ThunderGun]

I agree 1000%

I don't want any of those guys....at least, not for what it would cost to get them.

[ThunderGun]

Oh, and don't forget about Colt McCoy. Let's trade for him!!!

Ryan Mallett too! Let them compete!

[X-Era]

The Jets also PAID Sanchez with a new contract before they had to, much like the Bills & Fitz only a much worse contract for the Jets. Between the Sanchez contract & the Revis contract, it is no wonder their GM was fired. He SCREWED that team.What does that have to do with whether the Bills should draft a USC QB or not?

[Mahdi]

Not that its the end all be all but USC's OL did give up the 26th least sacks per game last year at 1.31. Which was the second lowest rate of Barkley's entire career at USC.

Ya sack numbers weren't t that high but he was hurried a lot from what I saw.

[Mski]

what i am failing to comprehend is how Barkley went from being debated as the #2 or #3 best QB available for last years draft, to not even worth being considered in the 1st round?

FWIW i didnt watch much of his play this year, but by looking at the numbers Xera posted I dont see that big of a drop off to see how his draft stock could drop so much between a "great" QB draft, and a "weak" QB draft

[X-Era]

what i am failing to comprehend is how Barkley went from being debated as the #2 or #3 best QB available for last years draft, to not even worth being considered in the 1st round?

FWIW i didnt watch much of his play this year, but by looking at the numbers Xera posted I dont see that big of a drop off to see how his draft stock could drop so much between a "great" QB draft, and a "weak" QB draft
I think he didn't look as good this year as he did last. But most of these guys have had good numbers for years.

I think the on the field inconsistencies are the main concern across the top 6 or 7 guys.

[JoeMama]

Does anyone REALLY think that any of these moves would solve our QB problems? Flynn is a back-up who had a handful of decent starts. Rob Johnson anyone? We only have 6 draft picks and we'd have to give one up to get him, assuming Seattle is even willing to part with him.

I don't think that's very fair.

Plenty of good QBs were buried on another team's roster before finding success. Immediate ones that come to mind: Kurt Warner, Mark Brunell, Tim Hasselbeck, Matt Schaub, Trent Green, Brett Favre, Drew Brees (sort of), etc etc.

I'm skeptical that Seattle would accept a 4th and/or 5th round pick for Flynn, but that's a wager worth taking.

[jdaltroy5]

what i am failing to comprehend is how Barkley went from being debated as the #2 or #3 best QB available for last years draft, to not even worth being considered in the 1st round?

FWIW i didnt watch much of his play this year, but by looking at the numbers Xera posted I dont see that big of a drop off to see how his draft stock could drop so much between a "great" QB draft, and a "weak" QB draft
They're the same people that want to wait until "next year" because that year's draft is loaded and nothing will change from now until then.

[OpIv37]

I don't think that's very fair.

Plenty of good QBs were buried on another team's roster before finding success. Immediate ones that come to mind: Kurt Warner, Mark Brunell, Tim Hasselbeck, Matt Schaub, Trent Green, Brett Favre, Drew Brees (sort of), etc etc.

I'm skeptical that Seattle would accept a 4th and/or 5th round pick for Flynn, but that's a wager worth taking.

I disagree. We have 5 major holes and six draft picks. Spending one on Flynn is a huge gamble.

[swiper]

My solution is Nassib at 8.

Why don't you just flush the pick down the toilet. It would be just the same.

[jdaltroy5]

I disagree. We have 5 major holes and six draft picks. Spending one on Flynn is a huge gamble.

Do you think we're going to be filling in major holes with mid and late round picks?

[swiper]

what i am failing to comprehend is how Barkley went from being debated as the #2 or #3 best QB available for last years draft, to not even worth being considered in the 1st round?



Cosell sees Barkley as a fourth-round talent (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/28/cosell-sees-barkley-as-a-fourth-round-talent/)

Waiting on the 13-year old from Canada to chime in with the ".... but Russ Lande says...." (so it must be).

[jdaltroy5]

Why don't you just flush the pick down the toilet. It would be just the same.
Based on?

Oh right Mel Kiper said he isn't very good. Forget about what Cosell, Lande, and Gruden said. Mel Kiper said he sucks.

Approximately how many Syracuse games have you watched in the last 4 years?

Or are you basing your opinion of him on the ten throws you heard about in the Senior Bowl?

[OpIv37]

Do you think we're going to be filling in major holes with mid and late round picks?

It's our only shot to fill them since this team won't do anything in FA.

[jdaltroy5]

Cosell sees Barkley as a fourth-round talent (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/28/cosell-sees-barkley-as-a-fourth-round-talent/)

Waiting on the 13-year old from Canada to chime in with the ".... but Russ Lande says...." (so it must be).

As opposed to, "But Mel Kiper says!"

Who else are you going to use? Todd McShay?

- - - Updated - - -


It's our only shot to fill them since this team won't do anything in FA.
Well as sad as that sounds, you're probably right.

[X-Era]

Cosell sees Barkley as a fourth-round talent (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/28/cosell-sees-barkley-as-a-fourth-round-talent/)

Waiting on the 13-year old from Canada to chime in with the ".... but Russ Lande says...." (so it must be).That is the only time I have seen anyone rank him that low. Most have him as a late 1st or early 2nd rounder based solely on rank. Let's not hen pick data points here.

[swiper]

Let's bring back this thread when he falls into the 2nd round.

[X-Era]

Let's bring back this thread when he falls into the 2nd round.
I'll bet you all of your current 3.5K ZB's that he will be drafted in the 1st round. And I'm not 100% sold on that happening. But I think it's very likely.

Deal?

[swiper]

Based on?

Oh right Mel Kiper said he isn't very good. Forget about what Cosell, Lande, and Gruden said. Mel Kiper said he sucks.

Approximately how many Syracuse games have you watched in the last 4 years?

Or are you basing your opinion of him on the ten throws you heard about in the Senior Bowl?

How can you say that when I just cited Cosell?

[swiper]

I'll bet you all of your current 3.5K ZB's that he will be drafted in the 1st round. And I'm not 100% sold on that happening. But I think it's very likely.

Deal?


I wouldn't be fully surprised if I'm wrong, however let's call it a bet.

[mjt328]

Like I've said in other threads...

You have the starting quarterback.... and then you have the other 52 roster spots. Until we get the right guy under center, all the other player moves really don't mean squat.


Of course the ideal situation is for us to draft BPA every single year like the Packers, Ravens and Steelers, and hope the right guy falls in our lap at some point. But so far, that strategy has prompted Nix to pass on every single quarterback available over the last 3 seasons - and there have been some pretty good ones in that bunch. Let's say a 1st round prospect has a 75 percent chance of success and a 2nd round prospect has a 25 percent chance of success. Well, we have a ZERO percent chance of success if we never pull the trigger.

At this point, I'm ready for the Bills to start taking chances and do whatever it takes to fix the quarterback position -- even it means the rest of the team being weaker when we FINALLY get the guy. If it means trading a mid round pick for Flynn, then go for it. If it means reaching for a guy at #8 that you think can be the man, then go for it. If it means taking 2 guys this year or drafting a QB every season until we get it right, then so be it. In the long run, it will be worth it.

[jdaltroy5]

How can you say that when I just cited Cosell?
The same Cosell that says that Nassib is the best QB prospect in the draft?

Make up your mind.

[swiper]

Nassib's status also may be buoyed by Barkley's so-so pro day.

[swiper]

The same Cosell that says that Nassib is the best QB prospect in the draft?

Make up your mind.

If you can read.... I cited Cosell regarding Barkley - but the point you're missing is that you cannot take any one of these guys opinions alone. If several of them are saying the same thing then maybe there is something to it. And most of what you are reading is still saying the same thing - that most of these guys are not first round talent - they just may be drafted there.

A lot of how it will fall will be based on whether any of the teams in front of Buffalo take a QB.

[Mski]

Like I've said in other threads...

You have the starting quarterback.... and then you have the other 52 roster spots. Until we get the right guy under center, all the other player moves really don't mean squat.

for this reason alone, i would be okay with the bills using all 6 of their picks on a qb this year.... one of the 8 that would leave us with must be better than what we had last year

[X-Era]

And most of what you are reading is still saying the same thing - that most of these guys are not first round talent - they just may be drafted there.

A lot of how it will fall will be based on whether any of the teams in front of Buffalo take a QB.We agree.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/217681-The-draft-and-the-QB-s?highlight=

[OpIv37]

Like I've said in other threads...

You have the starting quarterback.... and then you have the other 52 roster spots. Until we get the right guy under center, all the other player moves really don't mean squat.


Of course the ideal situation is for us to draft BPA every single year like the Packers, Ravens and Steelers, and hope the right guy falls in our lap at some point. But so far, that strategy has prompted Nix to pass on every single quarterback available over the last 3 seasons - and there have been some pretty good ones in that bunch. Let's say a 1st round prospect has a 75 percent chance of success and a 2nd round prospect has a 25 percent chance of success. Well, we have a ZERO percent chance of success if we never pull the trigger.

At this point, I'm ready for the Bills to start taking chances and do whatever it takes to fix the quarterback position -- even it means the rest of the team being weaker when we FINALLY get the guy. If it means trading a mid round pick for Flynn, then go for it. If it means reaching for a guy at #8 that you think can be the man, then go for it. If it means taking 2 guys this year or drafting a QB every season until we get it right, then so be it. In the long run, it will be worth it.

I disagree with this. If you get a QB under center without the pieces around him, he is doomed to fail.

Look at Bledsoe. We knew he was slow but never put an OL in front of him. Not to make excuses because he made plenty of mistakes on his own, but we never gave him a real shot. Then, rather than fix the OL, the brilliant FO thought they could compensate with a "mobile" QB and brought in Losman. He spent his whole time in Buffalo running for his life. Would he have been better if he had a solid OL in front of him? Hard to say, but we never gave him a chance.

Look at Edwards. He was turning into a decent QB before getting taken out by our ****ty pass protection, and was never the same after that concussion.

If you can't protect your QB and give him decent receiving options, particularly with a young QB, he's screwed from day 1.

[justasportsfan]

I put no stock into the history of the school he came from.

Flacco was a Blue Hen I believe. Also, one of the reasons Aaron Rodgers stock dropped was that he was perceived as a "Tedford effect" QB and wouldn't be as good in the NFL. Another angle is that he was a California QB and he handles the weather in GB just fine.

Every player needs to be evaluated on his own merit. I see a guy in Barkley who took a ton of snaps at USC, had a great JR. year and followed it up with a SR. year that was a drop-off but for different reasons.

The kid has talent, a good arm and he's smart.
He was hurried a lot more as a SR. Often was having to make throws under pressure. And his defense wasn't too good which was forcing him to make plays.

Matt Ryan had same issues coming out. Although Matt Ryan didn't have much of a WR corp.

Replace USC with Arkansas and you're pretty much describing Wilson without the weapons Barkely had in his senior year.

[better days]

I disagree with this. If you get a QB under center without the pieces around him, he is doomed to fail.

Look at Bledsoe. We knew he was slow but never put an OL in front of him. Not to make excuses because he made plenty of mistakes on his own, but we never gave him a real shot. Then, rather than fix the OL, the brilliant FO thought they could compensate with a "mobile" QB and brought in Losman. He spent his whole time in Buffalo running for his life. Would he have been better if he had a solid OL in front of him? Hard to say, but we never gave him a chance.

Look at Edwards. He was turning into a decent QB before getting taken out by our ****ty pass protection, and was never the same after that concussion.

If you can't protect your QB and give him decent receiving options, particularly with a young QB, he's screwed from day 1.

Well, even with the loss of Levitre, the Bills have a much better OL today than they did when Bledsoe, Losman & Edwards were here. If they sign Davis, they will have TWO decent TEs. Stevie is a GOOD WR. CJ is an ELITE RB.

The only REAL NEED on this team is a QB. The rest of the needs can be filled even if not all this year. If the Bills draft a QB in the first Rnd, he will be in Buffalo for 5 years minimum if the Bills want to keep him. There is time to add pieces around him.

[OpIv37]

Well, even with the loss of Levitre, the Bills have a much better OL today than they did when Bledsoe, Losman & Edwards were here. If they sign Davis, they will have TWO decent TEs. Stevie is a GOOD WR. CJ is an ELITE RB.

The only REAL NEED on this team is a QB. The rest of the needs can be filled even if not all this year. If the Bills draft a QB in the first Rnd, he will be in Buffalo for 5 years minimum if the Bills want to keep him. There is time to add pieces around him.
HUGE hole at G, IF they sign Davis we have one good TE and one good but injured TE. ONE good WR is NOT ENOUGH because other teams key on him, particularly for a young QB who is going to stare down his WR.

Did Edwards or Losman make it 5 years? They won't last that long if we get them shell-shocked in the first season, as this team tends to do. This team has at least 5 real needs: QB, G, WR, LB, CB. It's going to take far more than a QB to get this team winning.

[jdaltroy5]

If you can read.... I cited Cosell regarding Barkley - Yes, I can read.

I also have at least an ounce of logic in my brain.

You cite Cosell in stating that Barkley doesn't deserve to be a first round pick.

Then, you ALSO say that Nassib would be a waste of a pick at 8, but Cosell thinks that Nassib is actually the best QB in the draft class.

So you're using Cosell as a solid source in regards to Barkley, but not Nassib?


but the point you're missing is that you cannot take any one of these guys opinions alone. If several of them are saying the same thing then maybe there is something to it. Yeah, I'm not using Russ Lande's opinion on it's own. I also mentioned Gruden and Cosell. So several of these guys are saying the same thing; that Nassib is the best QB in the draft. Is there something to that?


And most of what you are reading is still saying the same thing - that most of these guys are not first round talent - they just may be drafted there.If they get drafted in the first round, they are first round talent. The analysts don't set the value level, the NFL GMs do.


A lot of how it will fall will be based on whether any of the teams in front of Buffalo take a QB.It could. Buffalo could have 3 QBs targeted in the first round. They could have one. We don't know.

[X-Era]

Yes, I can read.

I also have at least an ounce of logic in my brain.

You cite Cosell in stating that Barkley doesn't deserve to be a first round pick.

Then, you ALSO say that Nassib would be a waste of a pick at 8, but Cosell thinks that Nassib is actually the best QB in the draft class.

So you're using Cosell as a solid source in regards to Barkley, but not Nassib?

Yeah, I'm not using Russ Lande's opinion on it's own. I also mentioned Gruden and Cosell. So several of these guys are saying the same thing; that Nassib is the best QB in the draft. Is there something to that?

If they get drafted in the first round, they are first round talent. The analysts don't set the value level, the NFL GMs do.

It could. Buffalo could have 3 QBs targeted in the first round. They could have one. We don't know.
I think the easier way to look at this is it's very similar to the Locker/Ponder/Dalton/Kaep draft. It's a situation where you pick the guy you like most when several rank about the same.

[jdaltroy5]

I disagree with this. If you get a QB under center without the pieces around him, he is doomed to fail.

Look at Bledsoe. We knew he was slow but never put an OL in front of him. Not to make excuses because he made plenty of mistakes on his own, but we never gave him a real shot. Then, rather than fix the OL, the brilliant FO thought they could compensate with a "mobile" QB and brought in Losman. He spent his whole time in Buffalo running for his life. Would he have been better if he had a solid OL in front of him? Hard to say, but we never gave him a chance.

Look at Edwards. He was turning into a decent QB before getting taken out by our ****ty pass protection, and was never the same after that concussion.

If you can't protect your QB and give him decent receiving options, particularly with a young QB, he's screwed from day 1.
I think a great QB can succeed regardless of his circumstances. It looked like Indy and Washington had no talent in 2011, then the next year, Luck and RG3 took them to the playoffs.

I'm not saying any of these guys are as good as Luck or RG3, but a good QB can mask a lot of problems.

Also, in regards to Trent, he had the best game of his career AFTER he was knocked out by Adrian Wilson.

He was always a pussy, the league just found out about it and took away all the underneath stuff.

[better days]

HUGE hole at G, IF they sign Davis we have one good TE and one good but injured TE. ONE good WR is NOT ENOUGH because other teams key on him, particularly for a young QB who is going to stare down his WR.

Did Edwards or Losman make it 5 years? They won't last that long if we get them shell-shocked in the first season, as this team tends to do. This team has at least 5 real needs: QB, G, WR, LB, CB. It's going to take far more than a QB to get this team winning.

I disagree with that. Yes the Bills have the needs you named, BUT with a GOOD QB they can win with lesser talent at the other positions. As I said the OL is FINE even with the loss of Levitre & you did not dispute that in your reply.

The Bills will have better receivers this year than they had last year, even if only because guys already on the team have more experience.

The Bills won 6 games last year with Fitz & a poor WR group as well as TERRIBLE Coaching on defense.

With a GOOD DC & a GOOD QB, those two things alone should get them at least 2 more wins. Luck always plays a role in football & with a little of that the Bills could win some games they are not expected to win.

[jdaltroy5]

I think the easier way to look at this is it's very similar to the Locker/Ponder/Dalton/Kaep draft. It's a situation where you pick the guy you like most when several rank about the same.
I'm ok with that. If they have 3 guys ranked above the rest, take one of them in the first.

Taking a QB in the second could be the difference between the second best QB and the sixth best.

[X-Era]

I'm ok with that. If they have 3 guys ranked above the rest, take one of them in the first.

Taking a QB in the second could be the difference between the second best QB and the sixth best. Interesting take.

If they all rank about the same you can wait until the 2nd and take whomever is left. But you also may have to spend your 8 pick to get your favorite and even then it may not work.

And waiting until the 2nd could very well mean Smith, Barkley, Nassib, Wilson, and maybe even Manuel are all gone before our pick.

[OpIv37]

I disagree with that. Yes the Bills have the needs you named, BUT with a GOOD QB they can win with lesser talent at the other positions. As I said the OL is FINE even with the loss of Levitre & you did not dispute that in your reply.

The Bills will have better receivers this year than they had last year, even if only because guys already on the team have more experience.

The Bills won 6 games last year with Fitz & a poor WR group as well as TERRIBLE Coaching on defense.

With a GOOD DC & a GOOD QB, those two things alone should get them at least 2 more wins. Luck always plays a role in football & with a little of that the Bills could win some games they are not expected to win.

I don't think the OL is fine without Levitre and Rhinehardt. We're down one starter and have zero depth. We might get by without Levitre at G but one injury and we are screwed. And there will be an injury.

And please don't give me that "experience" argument for the WR's. I've heard that "player improvement through experience" argument every year since I've been on the board and it has yet to make a difference.

[Mr. Pink]

If more than Geno Smith is drafted in round 1 I'd be shocked.

None of the other QBs should even be considered in the first.

[Mahdi]

Replace USC with Arkansas and you're pretty much describing Wilson without the weapons Barkely had in his senior year.

No not at all. Barkley is way more polished and way more talented.

[OpIv37]

I think a great QB can succeed regardless of his circumstances. It looked like Indy and Washington had no talent in 2011, then the next year, Luck and RG3 took them to the playoffs.

I'm not saying any of these guys are as good as Luck or RG3, but a good QB can mask a lot of problems.

Also, in regards to Trent, he had the best game of his career AFTER he was knocked out by Adrian Wilson.

He was always a pussy, the league just found out about it and took away all the underneath stuff.

You have a point with Washington, not so much with Indy.

Indy was good with Manning. They lost Manning, they sucked for a year. They got Luck, and they were good again. The team was built around a top-notch QB. Luck had all the pieces in place already- pieces Buffalo doesn't have.

[mjt328]

I disagree with this. If you get a QB under center without the pieces around him, he is doomed to fail.

Look at Bledsoe. We knew he was slow but never put an OL in front of him. Not to make excuses because he made plenty of mistakes on his own, but we never gave him a real shot. Then, rather than fix the OL, the brilliant FO thought they could compensate with a "mobile" QB and brought in Losman. He spent his whole time in Buffalo running for his life. Would he have been better if he had a solid OL in front of him? Hard to say, but we never gave him a chance.

Look at Edwards. He was turning into a decent QB before getting taken out by our ****ty pass protection, and was never the same after that concussion.

If you can't protect your QB and give him decent receiving options, particularly with a young QB, he's screwed from day 1.

I'm not saying things like an offensive line and wide receivers aren't important and should be completely ignored. They are very important to the overall success of a quarterback. But other positions are completely worthless without a good quarterback.

Larry Fitzgerald is one of the best wide receivers I have ever watched play the game. Completely healthy, he didn't even crack 800 yards receiving last season. He was rendered completely worthless to the Cardinals because there was nobody there to get him the ball. Few would argue that Joe Thomas is among, if not the best left tackle in football. But what good is spectacular protection if your quarterback sucks? How many games has he won for the Browns?

On the other side of the coin, guys like Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger can make good things happen without a good offensive line. Drew Brees and Peyton Manning would still be spectacular, even with a bunch of backups as their receivers. Are those guys better with Pro Bowl linemen and Pro Bowl receivers around them? Of course!!! But you can't find a single lineman or a receiver that makes his team good without help from the quarterback position. You can find several quarterbacks in this league that win without much help.

[justasportsfan]

No not at all. Barkley is way more polished and way more talented.

i was talking about the circumstances you listed. Wilson had more problems than Barkley both cast and coaching. Yet Barkley's performance dropped just as significantly as Wilsons. Right now I would rather take Wilson.

[Mr. Pink]

You have a point with Washington, not so much with Indy.

Indy was good with Manning. They lost Manning, they sucked for a year. They got Luck, and they were good again. The team was built around a top-notch QB. Luck had all the pieces in place already- pieces Buffalo doesn't have.

Indy as a team is pretty weak...they just have a QB who elevated the team.

[OpIv37]

I'm not saying things like an offensive line and wide receivers aren't important and should be completely ignored. They are very important to the overall success of a quarterback. But other positions are completely worthless without a good quarterback.

Larry Fitzgerald is one of the best wide receivers I have ever watched play the game. Completely healthy, he didn't even crack 800 yards receiving last season. He was rendered completely worthless to the Cardinals because there was nobody there to get him the ball. Few would argue that Joe Thomas is among, if not the best left tackle in football. But what good is spectacular protection if your quarterback sucks? How many games has he won for the Browns?

On the other side of the coin, guys like Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger can make good things happen without a good offensive line. Drew Brees and Peyton Manning would still be spectacular, even with a bunch of backups as their receivers. Are those guys better with Pro Bowl linemen and Pro Bowl receivers around them? Of course!!! But you can't find a single lineman or a receiver that makes his team good without help from the quarterback position. You can find several quarterbacks in this league that win without much help.

Well, even if you are right, it goes back to my initial post. That QB simply isn't there right now.

[Mahdi]

i was talking about the circumstances you listed. Wilson had more problems than Barkley both cast and coaching. Yet Barkley's performance dropped just as significantly as Wilsons. Right now I would rather take Wilson.

Ok but my point is that circumstances are irrelevant here because Barkley is a more talented player.

[better days]

You have a point with Washington, not so much with Indy.

Indy was good with Manning. They lost Manning, they sucked for a year. They got Luck, and they were good again. The team was built around a top-notch QB. Luck had all the pieces in place already- pieces Buffalo doesn't have.

This is where your argument FAILS. The Bills have a NUMBER of pieces in place. they spent the last 3 years doing that. the time for a QB is NOW.

[Mahdi]

You have a point with Washington, not so much with Indy.

Indy was good with Manning. They lost Manning, they sucked for a year. They got Luck, and they were good again. The team was built around a top-notch QB. Luck had all the pieces in place already- pieces Buffalo doesn't have.

Buffalo has a solid OL -- LT, RG,C and RT. They have a #1 WR, they have an All-Pro RB, they have a defense that has several pieces in place including All-Pro safety, DE, DT as well as a solid young DT (who should bounce back), a future All-Pro CB in Gilmore and some decent young LBs that are ready to step up in a real defense.

This offseason we can fill the rest of the voids and get that young QB at the same time.

[jdaltroy5]

You have a point with Washington, not so much with Indy.

Indy was good with Manning. They lost Manning, they sucked for a year. They got Luck, and they were good again. The team was built around a top-notch QB. Luck had all the pieces in place already- pieces Buffalo doesn't have.

I think Indy was good about 5 or 6 years ago, but if you actually look at their roster, they have a lot of holes.

Wayne, Mathis, and Luck were the only ones that made the Pro Bowl last year.

Their top rusher only had 800 yards and 2 TDs and most people probably haven't even heard of him.

After Reggie Wayne, their best receiving option was a speedy undersized third round rookie.

Most people couldn't even name 3 or 4 players on their defense.

Their OL wasn't even that great either. They were 24th in sacks allowed and 23rd in avg. for rushing.

They just had a really good QB.

[OpIv37]

Buffalo has a solid OL -- LT, RG,C and RT. They have a #1 WR, they have an All-Pro RB, they have a defense that has several pieces in place including All-Pro safety, DE, DT as well as a solid young DT (who should bounce back), a future All-Pro CB in Gilmore and some decent young LBs that are ready to step up in a real defense.

This offseason we can fill the rest of the voids and get that young QB at the same time.

Stevie's not a #1 WR, and we need more than 1 WR to be successful anyway. Having a great RB is useless when you have 1 WR and a rookie QB and the D can stack the box.

The D is a paper tiger. They're not nearly that good when they actually attempt to play.

[better days]

Stevie's not a #1 WR, and we need more than 1 WR to be successful anyway. Having a great RB is useless when you have 1 WR and a rookie QB and the D can stack the box.

The D is a paper tiger. They're not nearly that good when they actually attempt to play.

Stevie has had TWO 1000 yd seasons in a row with a TERRIBLE QB throwing to him & has had better success against Revis than ANY other WR in the NFL, so IMO you are wrong saying Stevie is not a #1 receiver. And CJ is one of those pieces you say the Bills don't have any of.

[X-Era]

Stevie's not a #1 WR, and we need more than 1 WR to be successful anyway. Having a great RB is useless when you have 1 WR and a rookie QB and the D can stack the box.

The D is a paper tiger. They're not nearly that good when they actually attempt to play.Then why was Spiller so successful this year?

Afterall, All those things were true this year (in your mind).

[OpIv37]

Stevie has had TWO 1000 yd seasons in a row with a TERRIBLE QB throwing to him & has had better success against Revis than ANY other WR in the NFL, so IMO you are wrong saying Stevie is not a #1 receiver. And CJ is one of those pieces you say the Bills don't have any of.

Stevie's a headcase. And ok, we have CJ. That's one piece. We're still missing a G, OL depth, a healthy TE, and a #2 WR (if I give you that Stevie is a #1), to say nothing of the D. A rookie QB is a sitting duck in that situation.

[Bert102176]

My list and in this order goes EJ Manuel, tyler wilson, ryan nassib, and if we were to trade for a QB it would be for Flynn but would only give up a 4th next year that could possibly be a 3rd depending on his play, and we still draft one of those 3 QB's in the second not the first this year.

[better days]

Stevie's a headcase. And ok, we have CJ. That's one piece. We're still missing a G, OL depth, a healthy TE, and a #2 WR (if I give you that Stevie is a #1), to say nothing of the D. A rookie QB is a sitting duck in that situation.

The only time a QB is a sitting duck is if he has nobody on the OL protecting him. Whoever is behind Center will have a GOOD OL in front of him. And you can not play the game of football without a QB, so someone will be behind Center.

Our only difference of opinion is you would be happy to put another MEDIOCRE QB behind that line while most of us would prefer someone GOOD.

[OpIv37]

The only time a QB is a sitting duck is if he has nobody on the OL protecting him. Whoever is behind Center will have a GOOD OL in front of him. And you can not play the game of football without a QB, so someone will be behind Center.

Our only difference of opinion is you would be happy to put another MEDIOCRE QB behind that line while most of us would prefer someone GOOD.

ONE injury, just ONE, and our OL is pretty friggin mediocre. And an injury will happen.

And he still has no targets. It doesn't matter if the OL gives him 30 seconds if Stevie is double covered and no one else is capable of getting open.

And I certainly won't be happy putting another mediocre QB behind that OL. But all the QB's available right now- including the guys in the draft- are mediocre. Reality is what it is. So, if we're stuck with a mediocre QB, don't waste the #8 draft pick on him.

[justasportsfan]

Buffalo has a solid OL -- LT, RG,C and RT. They have a #1 WR, they have an All-Pro RB, they have a defense that has several pieces in place including All-Pro safety, DE, DT as well as a solid young DT (who should bounce back), a future All-Pro CB in Gilmore and some decent young LBs that are ready to step up in a real defense.

This offseason we can fill the rest of the voids and get that young QB at the same time.

And I thought I was a homer. We have nothing at WR other than Stevie who isn't elite and no longer has a qb who knows him well. There is NO Luck either in this draft who will just be able to do what Luck did in Indy.

Who are our young linebackers who are ready to step up? I haven't seen any. If you're talking about Sheppard and Bradham, it's all hope on your part.

[Bert102176]

We need all the picks we have this year cause this team is in parrell with so many holes and with doing jackcrap in free agency ,

[justasportsfan]

Stevie has had TWO 1000 yd seasons in a row with a TERRIBLE QB throwing to him & has had better success against Revis than ANY other WR in the NFL, so IMO you are wrong saying Stevie is not a #1 receiver. And CJ is one of those pieces you say the Bills don't have any of.

I am not as critical as OP is with SJ or as high as some people are with him either. As bad as Fitz was, there is no guarantee that the next qb will have the same chemistry Fitz had with Stevie.

[better days]

ONE injury, just ONE, and our OL is pretty friggin mediocre. And an injury will happen.

And he still has no targets. It doesn't matter if the OL gives him 30 seconds if Stevie is double covered and no one else is capable of getting open.

And I certainly won't be happy putting another mediocre QB behind that OL. But all the QB's available right now- including the guys in the draft- are mediocre. Reality is what it is. So, if we're stuck with a mediocre QB, don't waste the #8 draft pick on him.


If an injury happens on the OL, it will most likely happen at Center. I hope the Bills draft a guard in the 3rd or 4th rnd that can slide over to Center when that happens.

Stevie got over 1000 yds the last two seasons while being double covered. He is more likely to make it 3 years in a row with a GOOD QB throwing him the ball.

Reality is that in the past people thought Kaepernick & Wilson were mediocre or they would have been drafted higher. NOBODY knows NOW, but there may be a few QBs in this draft that develop into better than mediocre QBs.

[better days]

I am not as critical as OP is with SJ or as high as some people are with him either. As bad as Fitz was, there is no guarantee that the next qb will have the same chemistry Fitz had with Stevie.

I agree about chemistry, but I am confident in Stevies ability as a #1 receiver. IMO if the Bills get a QB that can throw with accuracy, Stevie will have plenty of opportunities to catch the ball.

[justasportsfan]

I agree about chemistry, but I am confident in Stevies ability as a #1 receiver. IMO if the Bills get a QB that can throw with accuracy, Stevie will have plenty of opportunities to catch the ball.

let's hope so. I'm hoping that the new system would be a good fit for Stevie.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I think Barkley at 8 is a real possibility. First off, we already have USC QB Aaron/Andy MURDER INCORPORATED Corp on the team, so clearly Nix and Marrone don't have the same distaste for the program. Second, people have noted that Marrone coached against and beat Geno Smith several times over his college career. Well, Marrones team got completely carpet bombed by Barkley to the tune of 11 TDs in two games. If his college experience against or with these players is going to affect his decision, he has to be at least considering Barkley based on those whoopings alone.

[SABURZFAN]

wasting the 8th overall pick on a QB will keep this team the laughingstock it has been for the last 13 years.

[BillsFever21]

Trading a 5th round pick for Matt Flynn wouldn't be desperation. Do we even have any legit players drafted after the first few rounds in the Nix era? That's what I thought. Sure we're short on draft picks but a 5th is nothing if that's all it cost. I'm not saying he would work out but it would be worth a gamble.

As far as guys like Kolb and Palmer goes that is just crazy to want them guys. I remember a couple years ago all the people on this board who wanted to trade our first or second round draft pick for Kolb. We see how that worked out with him.

The desperation is the ones who want a rookie QB so much just for some hope and fun to watch the games again. They don't care if there are already 3-4 QB's off the board when our 1st round pick comes up(which there won't be but just saying) they are fine just picking the next one in line in fear that there wouldn't be anybody at all left in the 2nd round even if their guy was already drafted. It doesn't matter if that QB is only a 2nd round talent at best they are fine with just taking the next one in line and passing on a dominant LB, etc in his place.

If every team just thought like that then the Bengals would've passed on AJ Green and taken a QB then fearing that there wouldn't be anybody else around in the 2nd round. Damn I still wish we would've taken AJ Green instead of Dareus.

I won't be pissed if they take a QB at #8 but I don't trust Nix. They haven't done a very good job at determining player value in the draft or scouting the right talent. The worse thing they could do is take a QB at #8 that would be a second round pick afterwards and losing out on a player in the first round. If we do draft one that of course I'll support them and hope for the best.

[Novacane]

This board is going to implode when the Bills take either Wilson, Barkley, Manuel or Nassib at 8. I can't wait. It's gonna be hilarious.

[BillsFever21]

This board is going to implode when the Bills take either Wilson, Barkley, Manuel or Nassib at 8. I can't wait. It's gonna be hilarious.

I'm fine with that if we have second choice or whatever. If for some crazy reason there was already two or three of the QB's off the board then it may be a bit of a reach. I just don't want them taking somebody like Nassib just because he played for Marrone and feel comfortable with him. If their consensus was that he truly was better then the rest of them then that's a different story.

[OpIv37]

This board is going to implode when the Bills take either Wilson, Barkley, Manuel or Nassib at 8. I can't wait. It's gonna be hilarious.

Its not going to be so hilarious when that leads to 3 straight seasons of 4 wins or less, cutting the #8 pick in three years, firing the whole coaching staff and starting over yet again.

[OpIv37]

I'm fine with that if we have second choice or whatever. If for some crazy reason there was already two or three of the QB's off the board then it may be a bit of a reach. I just don't want them taking somebody like Nassib just because he played for Marrone and feel comfortable with him. If their consensus was that he truly was better then the rest of them then that's a different story.

Here's the problem: they're going to say the consensus was that the guy they pick is the best whether its true or not. If the first 7 teams take QB's and we are stuck taking the 8th QB because there are none left, they will say it was their intent all along and their smoke screen fooled everyone, even if the notes on him in Nix's yellow pad (no way that codger knows how to use a laptop or tablet) say "don't take before the 7th round."

So, we won't ever know what their consensus really was.

[jdaltroy5]

Its not going to be so hilarious when that leads to 3 straight seasons of 4 wins or less, cutting the #8 pick in three years, firing the whole coaching staff and starting over yet again.

At least we'll get a better pick than we would've at 8.

[acehole]

Alex smith looking better and better...



This board has lost its' collective mind. The desperation for a QB has led to insanity.

Does anyone REALLY think that any of these moves would solve our QB problems? Flynn is a back-up who had a handful of decent starts. Rob Johnson anyone? We only have 6 draft picks and we'd have to give one up to get him, assuming Seattle is even willing to part with him.

Palmer is talented but well past his prime. At this point, he's a carbon copy of Fitz.

Kolb flat out sucks. Az ditched him presumably so they can take Geno. Then, since we can't take Geno, we take the guy that AZ ditched in favor of Geno. Sure, that makes sense.

Barkley at 8? Well, I can't guarantee that it won't work, but it's a long shot at best. California QB's have not fared well in Buffalo. And USC QB's, with the exception of Palmer, haven't fared well in the NFL recently (Leinart, Sanchez, Cassell). IMO, they are so used to having so much more talent than the competition at USC that they can't hack it when they have to face top level competition every week in the parity situation that exists in today's NFL. And Barkley specifically is coming off a season where his numbers dropped before getting hurt. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

I know, I know, what's the alternative? What's my solution if none of these guys are right? The sad thing is, I don't have one. We need to just accept the reality that the QB we want/need simply available right now. It sucks, but it's the way things are. The only wise thing to do at this point is use our 2nd round pick on the best QB left (hopefully Nassib or Wilson are still there) and hope for the best. It's a long shot, but smarter than Barkley, Flynn, Kolb or Palmer.

[Bill Cody]

Its not going to be so hilarious when that leads to 3 straight seasons of 4 wins or less, cutting the #8 pick in three years, firing the whole coaching staff and starting over yet again.

How many wins do we get with no QB? Just asking.

[OpIv37]

How many wins do we get with no QB? Just asking.

This year? Not many.

But if we use the #8 pick on someone who will actually help the team and either luck into a QB in the 2nd or find one next year, then maybe this coaching staff and FO can save their asses and we can finally enjoy some football.

[Novacane]

Its not going to be so hilarious when that leads to 3 straight seasons of 4 wins or less, cutting the #8 pick in three years, firing the whole coaching staff and starting over yet again.



I think there's a good chance the consensus opinion that all these guys blow is wrong. I just hope the Bills get the right one.

[BillsFever21]

I think there's a good chance the consensus opinion that all these guys blow is wrong. I just hope the Bills get the right one.

It would be very rare that at least one of them wouldn't turn into a competent NFL starter. If not one of the top QB's in the league you would think at least one would be a competent starter that can help you win games. There is no way that all of them between Smith, Barkley, Nassib, Manuel, Wilson and some of the other guys are all going to be decent QB's. It's a stretch to think that even a few of them will be. If you're very lucky one of them might turn out to be a franchise style QB while another one turns out to be an above-average competent QB. At least a couple of them will be completely pathetic and there might be a decent sleeper in the middle or later rounds. That's just playing the odds in one of the better QB classes let alone one that is considered one of the weaker ones.

Unless they get lucky I just don't have faith in this front office identifying the one or two guys that might. This is the same front office who thought that Fitzpatrick was the QB of our foreseeable future after a good month of football and then gave him 20+ million dollars without hedging their bets one bit in case they were wrong. Anybody who would give Fitzpatrick that kind of money after a few good games to start the season and put all of their eggs into his basket I definitely don't trust very much to identify them one or two guys.

[Novacane]

It would be very rare that at least one of them wouldn't turn into a competent NFL starter. If not one of the top QB's in the league you would think at least one would be a competent starter that can help you win games. There is no way that all of them between Smith, Barkley, Nassib, Manuel, Wilson and some of the other guys are all going to be decent QB's. It's a stretch to think that even a few of them will be. If you're very lucky one of them might turn out to be a franchise style QB while another one turns out to be an above-average competent QB. At least a couple of them will be completely pathetic and there might be a decent sleeper in the middle or later rounds. That's just playing the odds in one of the better QB classes let alone one that is considered one of the weaker ones.

Unless they get lucky I just don't have faith in this front office identifying the one or two guys that might. This is the same front office who thought that Fitzpatrick was the QB of our foreseeable future after a good month of football and then gave him 20+ million dollars without hedging their bets one bit in case they were wrong. Anybody who would give Fitzpatrick that kind of money after a few good games to start the season and put all of their eggs into his basket I definitely don't trust very much to identify them one or two guys.


I don't have faith that they will draft a game changer regardless of the position he plays. I'll roll the dice with QB because if they happen to luck out he will make a real difference.

[better days]

It would be very rare that at least one of them wouldn't turn into a competent NFL starter. If not one of the top QB's in the league you would think at least one would be a competent starter that can help you win games. There is no way that all of them between Smith, Barkley, Nassib, Manuel, Wilson and some of the other guys are all going to be decent QB's. It's a stretch to think that even a few of them will be. If you're very lucky one of them might turn out to be a franchise style QB while another one turns out to be an above-average competent QB. At least a couple of them will be completely pathetic and there might be a decent sleeper in the middle or later rounds. That's just playing the odds in one of the better QB classes let alone one that is considered one of the weaker ones.

Unless they get lucky I just don't have faith in this front office identifying the one or two guys that might. This is the same front office who thought that Fitzpatrick was the QB of our foreseeable future after a good month of football and then gave him 20+ million dollars without hedging their bets one bit in case they were wrong. Anybody who would give Fitzpatrick that kind of money after a few good games to start the season and put all of their eggs into his basket I definitely don't trust very much to identify them one or two guys.

I think Chan played a big role in the contract of Fitz. He kept his wagon firmly hitched to Fitz until the Bitter end, cutting VY before the season started & refusing to play TJax to see what he had after the Bills were eliminated from the playoffs & EVERYONE in Bills nation knew Fitz would not be the Bills starter then next year.

I do trust Nix, his scouts & Marrone to target the right guy. But I heard on Sirius the other day even the best of the GMs at drafting are only right 50% of the time.

[BillsFever21]

I think Chan played a big role in the contract of Fitz. He kept his wagon firmly hitched to Fitz until the Bitter end, cutting VY before the season started & refusing to play TJax to see what he had after the Bills were eliminated from the playoffs & EVERYONE in Bills nation knew Fitz would not be the Bills starter then next year.

I do trust Nix, his scouts & Marrone to target the right guy. But I heard on Sirius the other day even the best of the GMs at drafting are only right 50% of the time.

I don't trust Nix one bit and only wished he was right anywhere close to 50% of the time. He has been here there years and his track record is completely pathetic up to this point. He hasn't found any starting caliber players outside of second round and in three years we only have one guy in Spiller who has proven himself. Glenn was decent last year but it's still no guarantee for the long term with him. Dareus hasn't lived up to the #3 pick draft status to this point especially considering some of the other great players like AJ Green that went after him. As far as Gilmore goes he is still a wait and see. Even if Dareus, Glenn and Gilmore turnout alright that's still only several decent players in 3 years.

Of course no GM nails every pick and it's not humanly possible. Your good GM's can consistently find good value and players that fit your system no matter where they are picking in the draft with some of them being at the top of their position. They are also able to find guys outside of the first couple rounds that can step in and be reliable starters with some of them being top players at their position. Nix hasn't proved he can do that yet.

Good GM's can also plan ahead of build their team for the future while still staying competitive. When they know they have an older guy who will be retiring or a player they probably won't keep they usually have somebody ready to step in ahead of the time. With Nix and the Bills it's usually always been drafting guys to replace the ones that have already left that year or trying to find somebody else at that certain position because you kept on draft busts.

[BillsFever21]

I think Chan played a big role in the contract of Fitz. He kept his wagon firmly hitched to Fitz until the Bitter end, cutting VY before the season started & refusing to play TJax to see what he had after the Bills were eliminated from the playoffs & EVERYONE in Bills nation knew Fitz would not be the Bills starter then next year.

I do trust Nix, his scouts & Marrone to target the right guy. But I heard on Sirius the other day even the best of the GMs at drafting are only right 50% of the time.

I'm sure Gailey played some part in it with his input but he wasn't the GM or an iconic proven coach where his wants would mostly be taken care of. Either way you look at the contract it still falls on Nix. He was the GM and even if Chan said that he wanted him it's up to Nix and the pro scouts to make sure that he is worth the contract you're going to give him. Even the best of coaches lose players that they wanted if the GM felt they didn't fit their long term plans or wasn't worth the money let alone a proven failure like Gailey.

Nix also didn't hedge his bets before or after the contract. We had chances to draft good QB's in 2011 and 2012 but Nix passed on all of them. He put all of his faith in Fitzpatrick even before the contract by not drafting one in 2011. Then after he gave him the horrible contract and Fitz bombed out after that he still didn't try and get one in 2012 in case Fitzpatrick stayed in the tank.

All of that falls on Nix. The GM decides and has the final say on who gets the contract and how much it's for and not Chan Gailey. Gailey could only give him his input. The GM also has the final say on any draft picks and can only take input from his scouts and coaches. Nix just isn't cut out to be a GM.

[BertSquirtgum]

I am not as critical as OP is with SJ or as high as some people are with him either. As bad as Fitz was, there is no guarantee that the next qb will have the same chemistry Fitz had with Stevie.

Chemistry is horse**** when the quarterback can't make the throw to the receiver.

[LtFinFan66]

What about David Carr? or a 7th rounder for Clausen?
DAUNTE CULPEPPER!!!!

[SABURZFAN]

Alex smith looking better and better...


if you think it is, it's definitely not.....

[better days]

Oh, and don't forget about Colt McCoy. Let's trade for him!!!

Ryan Mallett too! Let them compete!

Well, Colt McCoy was traded to the 49ers for a 5th rnd pick. The Same rnd pick the Seahawks got for Flynn. I seem to remember saying the Seahawks would trade him & not get much, BUT they did save a lot of cap space with that trade.