For those of you who dislike Kevin Kolb

[BertSquirtgum]

For those of you who dislike Kevin Kolb and don't think he should be here. It looks like he wants the starting job and believes he will be the starter.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/08/kevin-kolb-im-in-buffalo-to-win-a-super-bowl-period/

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Bills-officially-sign-QB-Kevin-Kolb/6ee5db53-7df1-4664-83e3-695014bd8483

[MidnightVoice]

I don't think he is good enough to get us to the playoffs.

I don't think he is bad enough to get us a high draft pick next year

[Joe Fo Sho]

I think the people who like Kevin Kolb also deserve the right to read this article. So I'll invite them.

[BertSquirtgum]

I personally like the signing. There was so much crying on here throughout the last 9 days over a guy who will be much better than Putzputrid.

[OpIv37]

of course he wants to start and of course he thinks he can do it.

He's not gonna say "I hope the Bills draft a QB because I'm not good enough to start. I just want to ride the pine for two years, collect my $13 million and hope some other team is stupid enough to give me the same deal when I'm done here."

[YardRat]

If he's riding the pine for two seasons, he isn't going to make anywhere near 13mil.

[Jaybird]

at this point and time, he is the best QB we have on the Roster. Let him start see whatwe've got, and hope the schmo we take int he draft turns out to be a star

[gebobs]

It looks like he wants the starting job and believes he will be the starter.Sounds like something I heard Fitz say too.

But I'm on board saying this is an upgrade. Not much of one, but an upgrade for sure.

[Meathead]

official jimmy the meathead©® starting qb odds:

76.9% kolbage
21.2% tjax
1.9% geno/matt/ryan/ej/tyler/mike/tyleragain/mattagain/landry/zac/sean/jeff/ryanagain/brad/jordan/colby/collin/dayne/alex/mattforthethirdtime/seth/jameshuhonlyoneofthose/marqueisholycrap/nathan/mattagain?!?

[Meathead]

oh yeah ...

0.001% corpse

[PTI]

This team cannot be as bad as last year, and last year's team was picked by a majority of supposed smart guys with a crap QB in Fitz to make the playoffs. I expect them to compete for a playoff spot.

[gebobs]

This team cannot be as bad as last year, and last year's team was picked by a majority of supposed smart guys with a crap QB in Fitz to make the playoffs. I expect them to compete for a playoff spot.
I appreciate your optimism and if you don't want to be poisoned by my cynicism, look away

Every year we think the team can't be as bad as the previous year. Every year, the team shows us why we should never underestimate their incompetence. And it's been so long that we fans have seen real players in Bills unis that we get excited by the likes of Scott Chandler, Bryan Scott and Torell Troup. Management tops the team off with a bunch of retreads like Mark Anderson and Brad Smith, and you have your Bills roster.

This team is more holes than cheese. The only way they could beat the Pats is if Brady screws the pooch and Cornkolb pulls one out of his arse. Who knows what the Fish and the Jests will do this year, but competing with those schmucks for second in the division isn't likely to mean much more than that.

New QB. New coach. One decent receiver. Lousy linebackers and DBs. New punter. Aging kicker. The Bills will suck this year. They will suck mightily.

[OpIv37]

This team cannot be as bad as last year, and last year's team was picked by a majority of supposed smart guys with a crap QB in Fitz to make the playoffs. I expect them to compete for a playoff spot.

you are out of your mind.

We lost 6 starters. Granted, none of them were good except Levitre, but the only replacements for them that we've added are Kolb and Lawson. On paper, we are worse than we were last year. We only have 6 draft picks, and this team seems content to sit on their hands in FA while other guys sign. Plus, we have new systems on both sides of the ball. This team is at least 3 years from competing, and that's assuming they do things right, which they won't.

[PTI]

I appreciate your optimism and if you don't want to be poisoned by my cynicism, look away

Every year we think the team can't be as bad as the previous year. Every year, the team shows us why we should never underestimate their incompetence. And it's been so long that we fans have seen real players in Bills unis that we get excited by the likes of Scott Chandler, Bryan Scott and Torell Troup. Management tops the team off with a bunch of retreads like Mark Anderson and Brad Smith, and you have your Bills roster.

This team is more holes than cheese. The only way they could beat the Pats is if Brady screws the pooch and Cornkolb pulls one out of his arse. Who knows what the Fish and the Jests will do this year, but competing with those schmucks for second in the division isn't likely to mean much more than that.

New QB. New coach. One decent receiver. Lousy linebackers and DBs. New punter. Aging kicker. The Bills will suck this year. They will suck mightily.

Trust me, I picked them to have 2 wins 2 years ago and they won 6, and and thought they would win 6 last year, I am by no means an optimist. I thought that little of Chan Gailey and Fitz.

[better days]

of course he wants to start and of course he thinks he can do it.

He's not gonna say "I hope the Bills draft a QB because I'm not good enough to start. I just want to ride the pine for two years, collect my $13 million and hope some other team is stupid enough to give me the same deal when I'm done here."

CLASSIC Op.

[JoeMama]

Fitz and Kolb are sort of interchangeable to me.

They're both mediocre but in different ways.

Fitz has decent pocket awareness and a quick release, so he doesn't take many stupid sacks. But ultimately his undoing was his weak arm and lack of accuracy on anything beyond 10 yards.

Kolb has a better arm and nicer touch on the deep ball. But he has poor pocket awareness and takes an unbearable amount of stupid sacks. The ceiling is probably higher for Kolb but I'd be shocked if he survived more than 6 or 7 games given his style of play and our bush league offensive line.

Fitz and Kolb share a similar QB rating. Funny how they made their ascent to the top of Mt. Mediocre with such different styles.

[SpikedLemonade]

....our bush league offensive line...

A lot of posters here over estimated our OL last year and are in denial that our OL this year will take a step backwards.

Once our OL cannot open running lanes for Spiller, we will be in a lot of 2nd or 3rd and long forcing us to pass on obvious passing downs.

That is how 3 and outs occur and how your D is worn out by the 3rd quarter.

2-14.

[OpIv37]

A lot of posters here over estimated our OL last year and are in denial that our OL this year will take a step backwards.

Once our OL cannot open running lanes for Spiller, we will be in a lot of 2nd or 3rd and long forcing us to pass on obvious passing downs.

That is how 3 and outs occur and how your D is worn out by the 3rd quarter.

2-14.

not to mention we have a mediocre QB in Kolb and only one real receiving threat, so D's will be stacking the box daring us to throw in the first place.

[gebobs]

Trust me, I picked them to have 2 wins 2 years ago and they won 6, and and thought they would win 6 last year, I am by no means an optimist.
I figure about the same this year. Under 0.500 for sure. They haven't improved in free agency and forget about getting help in the draft.


I thought that little of Chan Gailey and Fitz.
Concur.

[SABURZFAN]

oh yeah ...

0.001% corpse


well..... Ralph Wilson IS the owner of this team so yeah..... :anvil:

[trapezeus]

I don't think he is good enough to get us to the playoffs.

I don't think he is bad enough to get us a high draft pick next year

I don't think he's durable enough to last a full season...or even 4 weeks behind another line that in process.

[EDS]

Did Kolb really say he came to Buffalo to win a Super Bowl?

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast

[Night Train]

If he doesn't show much in the spring or summer, he won't even make the opening day roster and collect that $$. So why worry ?

That applies to anyone trying to impress a 1st year coach. He has zero loyalties.

[BertSquirtgum]

you are out of your mind.

We lost 6 starters. Granted, none of them were good except Levitre, but the only replacements for them that we've added are Kolb and Lawson. On paper, we are worse than we were last year. We only have 6 draft picks, and this team seems content to sit on their hands in FA while other guys sign. Plus, we have new systems on both sides of the ball. This team is at least 3 years from competing, and that's assuming they do things right, which they won't.

No.

[swiper]

you are out of your mind.

We lost 6 starters. Granted, none of them were good except Levitre, but the only replacements for them that we've added are Kolb and Lawson. On paper, we are worse than we were last year. We only have 6 draft picks, and this team seems content to sit on their hands in FA while other guys sign. Plus, we have new systems on both sides of the ball. This team is at least 3 years from competing, and that's assuming they do things right, which they won't.

How long did it take Pete Carroll in Seattle again?

[BertSquirtgum]

A lot of posters here over estimated our OL last year and are in denial that our OL this year will take a step backwards.

Once our OL cannot open running lanes for Spiller, we will be in a lot of 2nd or 3rd and long forcing us to pass on obvious passing downs.

That is how 3 and outs occur and how your D is worn out by the 3rd quarter.

2-14.


not to mention we have a mediocre QB in Kolb and only one real receiving threat, so D's will be stacking the box daring us to throw in the first place.


What a bunch of pathetic losers. Already predicting a losing season before training camp has even begun. I've never seen something so ridiculous. Sad even.

[better days]

Kolb was on Sirius today. I liked what he had to say. He said this time it was HIS choice where to go & he had a few choices. He said he CHOSE Buffalo because he was impressed by the Bills coaching staff & the uptempo offense the Bills plan to run. He thinks it will suit him. He said he came to Buffalo to win & he knows this is his last chance to prove himself.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How long did it take Pete Carroll in Seattle again?

3 years and the best QB steal since Tom Brady. Unless you are foolishly counting the year where the entire NFC West collapsed and he went to the playoffs with a losing record.

[BillsFever21]

Wow he said he wants to win and be a starter. Well I'm sold now. No QB or any player signed would EVER make a statement like that.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

What a bunch of pathetic losers. Already predicting a losing season before training camp has even begun. What a bunch of pathetic losers. Already predicting a losing season before training camp has even begun. I've never seen something so ridiculous. Sad even. The only pathetic losers here are the Buffalo Bills, the only NFL team who has yet to make the playoffs this millennium. What has changed? Buddy Nix is still here. Russ Brandon is still here. We have a rookie head coach whose track record is a .500 record in one of the weakest conferences in major college football. We have a team that has not drafted a quarterback prior to round 7 since Trent Edwards. We have one of the worst draft classes in years ahead of us. We've lost free agents in what is also the worst free agent class in years and the team has no way to replace them with anything resembling NFL talent. Oh, and Tom Brady is still leading the Patriots to the playoffs every year he plays, meaning no spot for the Bills even if they do play well. Everything here is just as bad, if not worse, than the 13 non-playoff seasons up to this point, 11 of which were losing.

Absolutely nothing about this year's squad or the league environment gives the Bills any chance to improve.

By the way, Kolb got on his little soapbox today and says he's here to win a Super Bowl. This guy doesn't even have a grip on reality, let alone talent.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

How long did it take Pete Carroll in Seattle again? Carroll didn't have Tom Brady in his division, and there's no realignment in the near future, either.

[Don't Panic]

For those of you who dislike Kevin Kolb and don't think he should be here. It looks like he wants the starting job and believes he will be the starter.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/08/kevin-kolb-im-in-buffalo-to-win-a-super-bowl-period/

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Bills-officially-sign-QB-Kevin-Kolb/6ee5db53-7df1-4664-83e3-695014bd8483

Love the moxie... hell yeah, promise it big. Everyone and their mother thinks we're a lost cause for at least a year, so you might as well take advantage of the nothing to lose scenario and shoot for the moon.

[cookie G]

Like Kolb, I'd like to win a Super Bowl.
Like Kolb, I've never thrown for more than 10 TD's in a season.

[Don't Panic]

What a bunch of pathetic losers. Already predicting a losing season before training camp has even begun. I've never seen something so ridiculous. Sad even.

Dont sweat it... just be happy you're not someone who shows up daily at a website for a team you have absolutely no faith in. Now THAT would be pathetic.

[OpIv37]

What a bunch of pathetic losers. Already predicting a losing season before training camp has even begun. I've never seen something so ridiculous. Sad even.

Lmfao.

Every year, someone says this. Then when we look like **** in camp, it'll be "well wait til preseason." Then when we look like **** in preseason, it'll be "well preseason doesn't matter. Wait til the real games start." Then when we look like **** in the regular season, it'll be "wow, this team's ****ty."

And of course, next off season when the team looks like **** again, it won't stop people like you from saying the same nonsense.

[OpIv37]

Dont sweat it... just be happy you're not someone who shows up daily at a website for a team you have absolutely no faith in. Now THAT would be pathetic.

Being a fan means wanting the team to win. It has nothing to do with having faith that they actually will. I don't believe in things without reason and I see no good reason to expect this team to win.

But, unlike you, I can still be a fan without convincing myself that the team is better than they are and turning a blind eye to reality to cling to some ridiculous sense of having "faith" that the team will win. Posts like this imply that you wouldn't be a fan if you were capable of accepting the reality of how bad this team is.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and once again people have chosen to shoot the messenger. They can't refute my points so instead they make it about me.

[OpIv37]

How long did it take Pete Carroll in Seattle again?

Are we falling back on the exception to prove the rule already? The Seahawks had some talent in place and lucked into a rookie starting QB in the 2nd round. Plus, two of the other 3 teams in their div are absolute garbage.

[BertSquirtgum]

The only pathetic losers here are the Buffalo Bills, the only NFL team who has yet to make the playoffs this millennium. What has changed? Buddy Nix is still here. Russ Brandon is still here. We have a rookie head coach whose track record is a .500 record in one of the weakest conferences in major college football. We have a team that has not drafted a quarterback prior to round 7 since Trent Edwards. We have one of the worst draft classes in years ahead of us. We've lost free agents in what is also the worst free agent class in years and the team has no way to replace them with anything resembling NFL talent. Oh, and Tom Brady is still leading the Patriots to the playoffs every year he plays, meaning no spot for the Bills even if they do play well. Everything here is just as bad, if not worse, than the 13 non-playoff seasons up to this point, 11 of which were losing.

Absolutely nothing about this year's squad or the league environment gives the Bills any chance to improve.

By the way, Kolb got on his little soapbox today and says he's here to win a Super Bowl. This guy doesn't even have a grip on reality, let alone talent.

Why do you losers keep following this team? Give it up loser.

[BertSquirtgum]

3fan noun
Definition of FAN1
: an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator

2
: an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) <science-fiction fans>

Do you losers really consider yourselves fans of the Buffalo Bills? You wouldn't be considered a fan according to the definition of a fan. Losers.

[BertSquirtgum]

Being a fan means wanting the team to win. It has nothing to do with having faith that they actually will. I don't believe in things without reason and I see no good reason to expect this team to win.

But, unlike you, I can still be a fan without convincing myself that the team is better than they are and turning a blind eye to reality to cling to some ridiculous sense of having "faith" that the team will win. Posts like this imply that you wouldn't be a fan if you were capable of accepting the reality of how bad this team is.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and once again people have chosen to shoot the messenger. They can't refute my points so instead they make it about me.

Wrong LOSER. Fan = an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator 3fan noun
Definition of FAN1
: an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator


2
: an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) <science-fiction fans>





Lmfao.

Every year, someone says this. Then when we look like **** in camp, it'll be "well wait til preseason." Then when we look like **** in preseason, it'll be "well preseason doesn't matter. Wait til the real games start." Then when we look like **** in the regular season, it'll be "wow, this team's ****ty."

And of course, next off season when the team looks like **** again, it won't stop people like you from saying the same nonsense.

I don't care loser. Go find another team.

[BillsFever21]

It looks as if the same people can't decipher the difference from wanting a team to win and expecting them to win. Unless you think we're going to the Super Bowl every season then you're not a fan. You would think these guys would be embarrassed about their lousy predictions. They definitely lack any ability to correctly predict football games and talent. Don't ask them for any advise on your football pool.

[BertSquirtgum]

Are we falling back on the exception to prove the rule already? The Seahawks had some talent in place and lucked into a rookie starting QB in the 2nd round. Plus, two of the other 3 teams in their div are absolute garbage.

Garbage post from a loser.

[OpIv37]

3fan noun
Definition of FAN1
: an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator

2
: an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) <science-fiction fans>

Do you losers really consider yourselves fans of the Buffalo Bills? You wouldn't be considered a fan according to the definition of a fan. Losers.
Actually 1 describes me perfectly. Exactly what part of that definition says that fans have to defend every stupid decision the team makes and expect them to win no matter how bad they look?

Oh, and notice you are attacking us and saying we are "losers" and "not fans" rather than attempting to refute the points we made. Translation: you have no legitimate response and are attacking us rather than accepting the reality that this team still sucks.

[BertSquirtgum]

It looks as if the same people can't decipher the difference from wanting a team to win and expecting them to win. Unless you think we're going to the Super Bowl every season then you're not a fan. You would think these guys would be embarrassed about their lousy predictions. They definitely lack any ability to correctly predict football games and talent. Don't ask them for any advise on your football pool.

Yours and OPs definition of a fan must be different from the rest of the worlds.

[BertSquirtgum]

Actually 1 describes me perfectly. Exactly what part of that definition says that fans have to defend every stupid decision the team makes and expect them to win no matter how bad they look?

Oh, and notice you are attacking us and saying we are "losers" and "not fans" rather than attempting to refute the points we made. Translation: you have no legitimate response and are attacking us rather than accepting the reality that this team still sucks.

You're not enthusiastic about anything except posting loser comments. Every time something bad happens we see 10x the amount of post from you that we normally do. You're a loser.

[OpIv37]

Garbage post from a loser.

Once again, no argument or attempt to refute my point. Just more childish insults.

[BertSquirtgum]

Once again, no argument or attempt to refute my point. Just more childish insults.

Loser

[OpIv37]

You're not enthusiastic about anything except posting loser comments. Every time something bad happens we see 10x the amount of post from you that we normally do. You're a loser.

Have you ever met me? Have we watched a game together?

You have no idea if I'm enthusiastic or not. Oh, and you're contradicting yourself. The anger I espouse in those post when things go wrong are testament to my enthusiasm. If I didn't care about the team there would be no reason to complain when things go wrong. If you don't want to hear it, then go follow another team where less things go wrong.

- - - Updated - - -


Loser

Coming from the guy with the dead bleeding Bills logo in his sig? Yeah, ok.

[feldspar]

Once again, no argument or attempt to refute my point. Just more childish insults.

You don't really have a point other than to *****, *****, *****.

Your point revolves around your belief that the Bills are doomed this year no matter what they do at this point. There is no way to refute this opinion because the roster is not set and a game hasn't been played...and you take the fun out of any sort of one-sided debate, anyway.

[OpIv37]

You don't really have a point other than to *****, *****, *****.

Your point revolves around your belief that the Bills are doomed this year no matter what they do at this point. There is no way to refute this opinion because the roster is not set and a game hasn't been played...and you take the fun out of any sort of one-sided debate, anyway.

Lmao.

"You're *****ing because I lack the mental capacity to refute your point."

Of course the roster is not set. But this team has five major holes plus needs overall depth. Do you REALLY think there is that much opportunity to fix this team? We only have 6 draft picks and it's damn near impossible to draft for need after the first round or two anyway. FA's are signing every day, and if there are FA's who can help us, why the hell aren't we signing them?

Sorry but if you think we are going to find enough talent in the existing FA's and post-draft cuts, you are kidding yourself.

It's a cop out to say "well the roster's not set." There is no fixing this roster in one off-season, period.

[BillsFever21]

re·al·ism

[ree-uh-liz-uhhttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] Show IPA
noun
1. interest in or concern for the actual or real, as distinguished from the abstract, speculative, etc.

2. the tendency to view or represent things as they really are.

[BertSquirtgum]

re·al·ism

[ree-uh-liz-uhhttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] Show IPA
noun
1. interest in or concern for the actual or real, as distinguished from the abstract, speculative, etc.

2. the tendency to view or represent things as they really are.

Doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't be considered a fan of this team.

[BillsFever21]

Doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't be considered a fan of this team.

Yep all because I don't believe the Bills will win 10 games and challenge for the Super Bowl every season. The 10 years of season tickets and over 100 live games at RWS doesn't count. Damn you really are a joke of a "fan" when it comes to this team. You're the type of "fan" that fans from other teams laugh at when they read your posts. Same as you would if you went over to the Jets or Jaguars message boards and heard the same type of delusional talk.

A fan is somebody who roots for a team and wants them to win. A delusional and unrealistic fan is somebody who thinks every person within the organization is better then they really are. Then as soon as they are no longer on the team they automatically sucked to begin with.

[BillsFever21]

de·lu·sion·al

[dih-loo-zhuh-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1. having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions: Senators who think they will (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/will) get agreement on a comprehensive tax bill are delusional.

2. Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mental+illness): He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him

[BertSquirtgum]

More loser posts.

[BillsFever21]

The only loser I see is the type of person who sits on a message board all day/night stalking everyone else who doesn't believe in the same fairy tales while replying "loser" to them all without stating any reasoning themselves.

I wonder how much money and how many games all of these "real fans" have been to. My guess it's not nearly as many as those "non-fans" have spent or been to.

[feldspar]

Lmao.

"You're *****ing because I lack the mental capacity to refute your point."

Who said that?

[BertSquirtgum]

The only loser I see is the type of person who sits on a message board all day/night stalking everyone else who doesn't believe in the same fairy tales while replying "loser" to them all without stating any reasoning themselves.

I wonder how much money and how many games all of these "real fans" have been to. My guess it's not nearly as many as those "non-fans" have spent or been to.

You're in my thread loser. I'm not stalking anyone. Post something positive once in awhile instead of posting so many realistically negative post and I won't consider you a loser with a loser mentality.

[EDS]

Kolb was on Sirius today. I liked what he had to say. He said this time it was HIS choice where to go & he had a few choices. He said he CHOSE Buffalo because he was impressed by the Bills coaching staff & the uptempo offense the Bills plan to run. He thinks it will suit him. He said he came to Buffalo to win & he knows this is his last chance to prove himself.

Where else was he going to go if he wanted a realistic shot at starting?

[BillsFever21]

You're in my thread loser. I'm not stalking anyone. Post something positive once in awhile instead of posting so many realistically negative post and I won't consider you a loser with a loser mentality.

Oh no I'm so upset you don't consider myself or others who doesn't believe in the tooth fairy as not being real fans. My guess is you fall a little under both the # 1 and #2 definition of delusional.

[BertSquirtgum]

Oh no I'm so upset you don't consider myself or others who doesn't believe in the tooth fairy as not being real fans. My guess is you fall a little under both the # 1 and #2 definition of delusional.

My guess is that you're a loser.

[JoeMama]

I didn't know Kevin Kolb inspired such militant zeal among the loyal.

Kolb has some upside if he stays healthy. Probably has a higher ceiling than Fitz talent wise.

But why act so outraged just because a Meh quarterback inspires Meh enthusiasm?

Cheer up. If you guys are right about Kolb, we all win.

[Joe Fo Sho]

My guess is that you're a loser.

The Bills of late are perennial 'losers' though, too. If being critical of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 13 years makes you a loser, then thinking that the signing of Kevin Kolb is going to change things makes you a homer. Pick one.

[BertSquirtgum]

The Bills of late are perennial 'losers' though, too. If being critical of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 13 years makes you a loser, then thinking that the signing of Kevin Kolb is going to change things makes you a homer. Pick one.

So what. New season, new coaches, same loser so called fans.

[BillsFever21]

I hear Prozac works very well for your condition.

[BertSquirtgum]

So does marijuana.

[gebobs]

What a bunch of pathetic losers. Already predicting a losing season before training camp has even begun. I've never seen something so ridiculous. Sad even.
What's your take? Or are you going to hide behind "it's too early to tell"? It will always be too early to tell for some folks here even going into the bye week. We know that. But who's going to be the big brain and predict playoffs and back it up with something...anything? You?

[BillsFever21]

So does marijuana.

Maybe you should cut back then. You must be taking too many bong hits.

[BillsFever21]

What's your take? Or are you going to hide behind "it's too early to tell"? It will always be too early to tell for some folks here even going into the bye week. We know that. But who's going to be the big brain and predict playoffs and back it up with something...anything? You?

No at the bye week it will be that we're only one more year away. Then when the time finally comes that we do make the playoffs it will be I told you so and knew it all along. Most likely by then most of the realist will see that we're improving anyway. If not then I would love for their predictions to come true once in 13+ years of predictions.

[Joe Fo Sho]

So what. New season, new coaches, same loser so called fans.

So because someone doesn't blindly agree with everything that a new coaching staff does, he's a loser? Did you say the same thing with Jauron? Gailey?

People have the right to think critically about teams that they are fans of.

[gebobs]

Doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't be considered a fan of this team.
Man, that is the lamest response ever. Every time I hear it. Self-righteous, self-appointed super fan can't stand valid criticisms of a team that would be considered to be in free fall had it not crashed and burned half a dozen years ago.

Your problem is you can't distinguish between the team and what makes up the team at any given time. To you, it's love 'em all or leave 'em. To us, it's the Bills and what the hell have these jackalopes done to our team?

Anyone that invests time here to read and write posts is a fan by anyone's measure. The fact that we can't stand how the old man has mismanaged the team for 50+ years and has made the franchise the laughing stock of the league (yeah, you better believe it's true) is lost on you.

[BillsFever21]

So because someone doesn't blindly agree with everything that a new coaching staff does, he's a loser? Did you say the same thing with Jauron? Gailey?

People have the right to think critically about teams that they are fans of.

My bet is yes. He probably thought we were a better team at first because we had Jauron instead of Williams and then Gailey instead of Jauron. It's just in their DNA. Then when they are fired after nothing but losing seasons it's because they sucked even though they claimed how much better the coach/player was for years leading up to then.

I'm indifferent on the Marrone hire. I'm not for or against it like I was when Jauron and Gailey were hired. I'm optimistic he will be better but he has to prove it first. I don't have any confidence in Buddy Nix though. At least he is leaving and somebody else is going to be taking over. The same failed guy running the show in Russ Brandon is still there though.

[BillsFever21]

Man, that is the lamest response ever. Every time I hear it. Self-righteous, self-appointed super fan can't stand valid criticisms of a team that would be considered to be in free fall had it not crashed and burned half a dozen years ago.

Your problem is you can't distinguish between the team and what makes up the team at any given time. To you, it's love 'em all or leave 'em. To us, it's the Bills and what the hell have these jackalopes done to our team?

Anyone that invests time here to read and write posts is a fan by anyone's measure. The fact that we can't stand how the old man has mismanaged the team for 50+ years and has made the franchise the laughing stock of the league (yeah, you better believe it's true) is lost on you.

I'm willing to bet if his girlfriend/boyfriend(if has either) was a whore and cheated on him all of the time he would believe them whenever they said they didn't do it or that they never will again. It wouldn't matter if you had photographs it would just mean that somebody altered them.

[BertSquirtgum]

What's your take? Or are you going to hide behind "it's too early to tell"? It will always be too early to tell for some folks here even going into the bye week. We know that. But who's going to be the big brain and predict playoffs and back it up with something...anything? You?

My take is people need to quite crying like a bunch of *****es until the Bills actually start to show us they suck. I'll call a spade a spade when it's right in front of me. Right now, we don't know **** and it gets old seeing the same ******* crying about the team every year.

- - - Updated - - -

Here comes the realistic loser train.

[BertSquirtgum]

So because someone doesn't blindly agree with everything that a new coaching staff does, he's a loser? Did you say the same thing with Jauron? Gailey?

People have the right to think critically about teams that they are fans of.

People can think whatever they want but it's the same realistic losers that cry all year around. This is a time for faith and hope that this team can turn the corner and not suck for once. So I will continue to call all the negative realist losers until the Bills prove them right. Then, I will be right next to them *****ing. I get tired of *****ing and moaning so every year around this time I switch back a hopeful homer. Losers be damned by Jesus.

[BertSquirtgum]

Man, that is the lamest response ever. Every time I hear it. Self-righteous, self-appointed super fan can't stand valid criticisms of a team that would be considered to be in free fall had it not crashed and burned half a dozen years ago.

Your problem is you can't distinguish between the team and what makes up the team at any given time. To you, it's love 'em all or leave 'em. To us, it's the Bills and what the hell have these jackalopes done to our team?

Anyone that invests time here to read and write posts is a fan by anyone's measure. The fact that we can't stand how the old man has mismanaged the team for 50+ years and has made the franchise the laughing stock of the league (yeah, you better believe it's true) is lost on you.

I don't understand this. If Ralph has ruined your life then why do you continue to follow this team and bring other people down? Why not choose another team in your area to follow? It always seems like it's mainly out of staters that are the year round realist. No optimism what so ever. I was as critical as anyone else about this team over the past two years. New coach, and this coach doesn't seem like a complete senile ****** from the start like Gailey was. If you have no faith in this team and it gives you no joy to follow and hope they win, why on earth would you continue to follow them? Seems really stupid to me.

[BLeonard]

hat
You're in my thread loser. I'm not stalking anyone. Post something positive once in awhile instead of posting so many realistically negative post and I won't consider you a loser with a loser mentality.

Well, I'm POSITIVE that the Bills are gonna suck in the 2013 season... Is that better for you?

-Bill

[BLeonard]

My take is people need to quite crying like a bunch of *****es until the Bills actually start to show us they suck.

Becuase, 13 years of proof isn't enough for you...?

My take is, when the Bills actually start to show us that they don't suck, then I'll stop saying that they do.

-Bill

[BLeonard]

People can think whatever they want but it's the same realistic losers that cry all year around. This is a time for faith and hope that this team can turn the corner and not suck for once. So I will continue to call all the negative realist losers until the Bills prove them right. Then, I will be right next to them *****ing. I get tired of *****ing and moaning so every year around this time I switch back a hopeful homer. Losers be damned by Jesus.

So, people who think that the Bills will suck now are "losers" now, but "when the Bills prove them right, I will be right next to them *****ing."

How would that not make you a loser? We're the losers, because we said the Bills would suck in March and April, yet it took you until October/November to see it?

-Bill

[Night Train]

Where else was he going to go if he wanted a realistic shot at starting?
The Bills or the Hamilton Ti-Cats. :up:

[pmoon6]

So what. New season, new coaches, same loser so called fans.Bills' Fans like to *****. They cry like little girls because of 13 years of no playoffs, but after 2 or 3 years of a new regime they call for the coaches head..

They even took the unprecedented action of spending their own hard earned cash on a billboard to get the HC and entire front office fired thus insuring that no top flight coach would ever come there. They then blame Wilson and some even wish his death. Not to mention vandalizing players homes if they fumble and berating a coach's children.

I guess they think if they jump up and down and throw a tantrum, things will change.

Best fanbase in the league!!!!!

Bwhahahahahahaha.

[gebobs]

I don't understand this. If Ralph has ruined your life
I'm not at all so dramatic that I think anything has "ruined my life". When people make fun of the Bills here in Atlanta, I just roll with it and laugh along. What else is there to do? It's true. The Bills are pathetic.


then why do you continue to follow this team and bring other people down? Why not choose another team in your area to follow?
Awwww...I'm bringing you down. So sorry. Well I hope you don't live in another NFL city or you would be truly miserable.

As for why I stay a fan...it's not a choice for most fans. I mean real fans. You're given your team by your father or your older brother. It's as much part of the fabric of my life as Buffalo itself is. Though I haven't lived there for nearly 20 years, I consider myself a Buffalonian first. A Bills and Sabres fan forever.

Like I tried to explain, we are fans of the team first. Whatever makes up that team at any particular time - coaches, players, management - are just that which burnishes or tarnishes the brass. There's been too much tarnishing for too long.


It always seems like it's mainly out of staters that are the year round realist. No optimism what so ever.
It seems like you paint a pretty broad swath without any clue. Just ask OpIv if I'm optimistic at all. I was hopeful the Sabres might pull it all together this year. Even now, I'm more optimistic about the Sabres


I was as critical as anyone else about this team over the past two years. New coach, and this coach doesn't seem like a complete senile ****** from the start like Gailey was. If you have no faith in this team and it gives you no joy to follow and hope they win, why on earth would you continue to follow them? Seems really stupid to me.
Who's the real fan then if you would consider abandoning the ship?

[gebobs]

Am I hopeful Marrone will be the next coming of Vince Lombardi? Sure. Am I hopeful that Kolb will light it up and drive Brady into retirement? Of course. Am I hopeful Buddy Nix will somehow pull off a draft reminiscent of those we had from '85-88? You betcha.

[trapezeus]

hurkey must have fallen off his meds. he was the most vocal anti-fitz guy last season.i guess he isn't a true fan.

and this team that we all love in all our own ways removed more pieces that puts the pressure on to find 6 starters for about 7 weak spots. and let's presume they find those 6 starters in key positions, they don't have depth. and last year was the first time they actually survived the injury bug to some extent because everyone on defense sucked (like one of the worst bills defenses in 50 years) so it didn't matter who came in. And the offense was decent even with a crappy qb and a stud rb who never got the ball.

now you have a new scheme, no qb, a weakened interior line, contract year for spiller, no WR, no TE, perhaps asking a guy who gets concussed sneezing as qb, and you are telling us to just get on board with them not being a 2-14 team?

I think you are delusional hurkey. and if your stance is so much about being about faith and asking us who know next year will suck regardless of if the rebuild is being done correctly, then you aren't allowed to have any venting time in week 10 when they literally aren't even in the same category of the playoff caliber teams.

[pmoon6]

It has occurred to me that Buffalo Children's Hospital might have started removing baby's testicles while doing the circumcision from 1980 forward.

At least if these boards are any indication.

[gebobs]

It has occurred to me that Buffalo Children's Hospital might have started removing baby's testicles while doing the circumcision from 1980 forward.

At least if these boards are any indication.
Good one, Gallagher! Keep that day job.

[OpIv37]

It has occurred to me that Buffalo Children's Hospital might have started removing baby's testicles while doing the circumcision from 1980 forward.

At least if these boards are any indication.
If you are referring to me, I was born before 1980 (not by much though) and it wasn't in Buffalo.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It has occurred to me that Buffalo Children's Hospital might have started removing baby's testicles while doing the circumcision from 1980 forward.

At least if these boards are any indication.

Ooooooohhhh, a Date of Birth Burn...nice. Well old people are stupid sometimes!

[pmoon6]

If you are referring to me, I was born before 1980 (not by much though) and it wasn't in Buffalo.General observation.

[pmoon6]

Ooooooohhhh, a Date of Birth Burn...nice. Well old people are stupid sometimes!Ooooooh. Old people smack.

Keep crying, bozo. It makes me laugh endlessly.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Ooooooh. Old people smack.

Keep crying, bozo. It makes me laugh endlessly.

It's just as funny as young people smack.

[pmoon6]

Good one, Gallagher! Keep that day job.I was going more for a Lewis Black thing.

If I was doing Gallagher, I'd have a big mallet and smash your small melons.

[pmoon6]

It's just as funny as young people smack.You don't even have to try to be funny. Your pissing and moaning supply endless laughs.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You don't even have to try to be funny. Your pissing and moaning supply endless laughs.

If you consider me someone who 'pisses and moans', then maybe you also had one of those specialty circumcisions you were speaking of earlier.

[Mr. Pink]

Of course he's gonna be the starter...for one season if we don't draft anyone.

TJax isn't gonna beat him out.

[BertSquirtgum]

Who's the real fan then if you would consider abandoning the ship?

When did I consider abandoning ship?

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't know how anyone can't have any faith and hope this time of year. It re-energizes me every year but I've only been a fan for 23 years. 13 years of no playoffs? It sucks but to not get excited about a season would really suck. I don't know how any of you do it. If I didn't ever get excited about a season then I would have stopped following the Bills a long time ago.

[justasportsfan]

Oh, and once again people have chosen to shoot the messenger. They can't refute my points so instead they make it about me.


You need to stop this . When you want to talk about the state of the team, that's fine . It's not about you, it's about the team. But once you put yourself out there and start making predictions good or bad, it becomes about you. Your predictions are about you.

[gebobs]

When did I consider abandoning ship?
You thought I should. That's some consideration.

For me, there is no consideration. I don't understand how anyone could switch teams. Unlike you, I wouldn't wonder why any fan would stay with any particular team through thick and thin. It just doesn't occur to me. Real fans stay. They may complain bitterly, but it's their right.

[OpIv37]

I don't know how anyone can't have any faith and hope this time of year. It re-energizes me every year but I've only been a fan for 23 years. 13 years of no playoffs? It sucks but to not get excited about a season would really suck. I don't know how any of you do it. If I didn't ever get excited about a season then I would have stopped following the Bills a long time ago.

Here's the problem: you're getting excited for the season for the sake of getting excited about the season.

I'll get excited about a season when there's reason to be excited. Right now, I just don't see it for the reasons I've already stated. I'm not going to get my hopes up thinking "well, if at least 15 of these 20 things go perfectly right in our favor then we'll have a good season, so maybe...." If the reality is that the team looks like it's going to suck, oh well. It sucks and it's not what I want, but it's reality. Hopefully someday the team will have a decent season and follow it up with some quality off-season moves, and then I can get excited about the upcoming season. Until then, it is what it is.

And one more thing about hope: I ALWAYS hope the team is going to win. That's different from actually expecting them to win.

[gebobs]

I don't know how anyone can't have any faith and hope this time of year.

There's always hope. Faith? Not so much.


I don't know how any of you do it. If I didn't ever get excited about a season then I would have stopped following the Bills a long time ago.
LOL...riiiiiight. The Bills have sucked for 13 straight years, more than half the time you've been a fan, and you haven't quit on them yet. Sorry, mate, you're stuck with the rest of us.

[OpIv37]

You need to stop this . When you want to talk about the state of the team, that's fine . It's not about you, it's about the team. But once you put yourself out there and start making predictions good or bad, it becomes about you. Your predictions are about you.
no, my predictions are about predictions.

If someone disagrees, fine- tell me what their prediction is and why they think my prediction is wrong and let's have a discussion ABOUT THE TEAM. But instead, it always comes back to "Op's *****ing again" or "Op has a loser mentality." That's how these threads always get sidetracked into becoming the old "realist vs homer" debate instead of discussing the topic at hand.

[pmoon6]

If you consider me someone who 'pisses and moans', then maybe you also had one of those specialty circumcisions you were speaking of earlier.How original. "I know you are but what am I"

:rofl:

[justasportsfan]

no, my predictions are about predictions.

If someone disagrees, fine- tell me what their prediction is and why they think my prediction is wrong and let's have a discussion ABOUT THE TEAM. But instead, it always comes back to "Op's *****ing again" or "Op has a loser mentality." That's how these threads always get sidetracked into becoming the old "realist vs homer" debate instead of discussing the topic at hand.

when you keep beating the dead horse and are repetitive, it's about you.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm just excited about football.

If the Bills or Browns actually become relevant, great!

If not, football is football and it's fun to watch.

[justasportsfan]

I'm just excited about football.

If the Bills or Browns actually become relevant, great!

If not, football is football and it's fun to watch.

you're not being logical according to OP.

[Mr. Pink]

you're not being logical according to OP.

Eh, I have no illusions that either the Bills or Browns will be competitive this year.

It would be great if they were, but I'll still enjoy watching games around the league either way.

[OpIv37]

when you keep beating the dead horse and are repetitive, it's about you.

lmao, the people disagreeing with me are beating a dead horse too.

And the horse isn't dead when people refuse to see the actual point and keep trying to make it about my attitude/mentality. And the horse isn't dead when the team keeps making the same stupid mistakes over and over, and keeps losing.

[trapezeus]

it's clear to me that tjax and kolb will split time. i have no faith that kolb will survive a full season. and the bills, if they really are trying to get better, will not send a rookie into the fire unless he's a natural born leader and has the locker-room's faith in full.

And if that guy really was a natural born leader, he'll be a russell wilson clone and able to show that before the season even starts.

[trapezeus]

when you keep beating the dead horse and are repetitive, it's about you.


what is repetitive about it? it's the same thing from OBD for 13 years and they just expect everyone to accept it. yeah, i love the bills. yeah, i would like them to be a lot better or at least competitive once in my adult life. but that's not really their goal. their goal is to take my money and provide no entertainment.

honestly i thought the chan gailey years were light years ahead of the jauron years even though the record said otherwise. at least these games were entertaining.

if the bills use kolb and tjax to shore up other parts of need, then i'll be a little hopeful that they are going the right way. if they draft a qb in round one and start him in week 1, they will be losmaning another person who didn't need that.

[BertSquirtgum]

lmao, the people disagreeing with me are beating a dead horse too.

And the horse isn't dead when people refuse to see the actual point and keep trying to make it about my attitude/mentality. And the horse isn't dead when the team keeps making the same stupid mistakes over and over, and keeps losing.

No.

[better days]

no, my predictions are about predictions.

If someone disagrees, fine- tell me what their prediction is and why they think my prediction is wrong and let's have a discussion ABOUT THE TEAM. But instead, it always comes back to "Op's *****ing again" or "Op has a loser mentality." That's how these threads always get sidetracked into becoming the old "realist vs homer" debate instead of discussing the topic at hand.

Get yourself a dictionary Op, pessimist & realist are two different words with two different meanings. And yes the Bills have lost for the last 13 years, but you would still be a pessimist even if they had won.

[OpIv37]

Get yourself a dictionary Op, pessimist & realist are two different words with two different meanings. And yes the Bills have lost for the last 13 years, but you would still be a pessimist even if they had won.

The Bills haven't won since this website has been in existence, so you have no idea how I will react if the team ever wins.

And as far as pessimist vs realist, well, the team sucks. The reality right now is very, very negative. Acknowledging that makes someone a realist, not a pessimist. If you don't want to hear the reality because it's negative, go to a website for a better team and call out the pessimists.

[BertSquirtgum]

The Bills haven't won since this website has been in existence, so you have no idea how I will react if the team ever wins.

And as far as pessimist vs realist, well, the team sucks. The reality right now is very, very negative. Acknowledging that makes someone a realist, not a pessimist. If you don't want to hear the reality because it's negative, go to a website for a better team and call out the pessimists.

Nope. It makes them a loser with a loser mentality. Fresh start.

[BertSquirtgum]

I have a feeling this constantly plays in OPs head.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmXWZFPvCAU

[better days]

The Bills haven't won since this website has been in existence, so you have no idea how I will react if the team ever wins.

And as far as pessimist vs realist, well, the team sucks. The reality right now is very, very negative. Acknowledging that makes someone a realist, not a pessimist. If you don't want to hear the reality because it's negative, go to a website for a better team and call out the pessimists.

There are pessimists on every board of every team, but this is the only board I post on. Acknowledging past failure is reality. To project that PAST failure to future results is PESSIMISM, NOT realism.

[OpIv37]

There are pessimists on every board of every team, but this is the only board I post on. Acknowledging past failure is reality. To project that PAST failure to future results is PESSIMISM, NOT realism.

Past results are not a perfect indicator of future results but they are the best indicator we have.

All you can do is look at the past results and see what changes- if any- have been made and if those changes make the team better or worse.

There is simply no objective way to say that this team got better this off-season.

[OpIv37]

Nope. It makes them a loser with a loser mentality. Fresh start.

once again the guy with the bleeding buffalo in his sig has nothing better to add than "loser loser loser loser loser...."

[better days]

Past results are not a perfect indicator of future results but they are the best indicator we have.

All you can do is look at the past results and see what changes- if any- have been made and if those changes make the team better or worse.

There is simply no objective way to say that this team got better this off-season.

OK Op, looking at the changes made, you have said you think the Bills have only gotten worse, cutting 6 starters etc. BUT that is PESSIMISM not realisim. None of us know if the Change of Coaching staff makes no difference or a HUGE difference. we will have to wait & see.

But as I said the argument is between pessimists & optimists, NOT realists & homers.

[Joe Fo Sho]

How original. "I know you are but what am I"

:rofl:

I guess I should've gone with the 'you started it' argument.

[OpIv37]

OK Op, looking at the changes made, you have said you think the Bills have only gotten worse, cutting 6 starters etc. BUT that is PESSIMISM not realisim. None of us know if the Change of Coaching staff makes no difference or a HUGE difference. we will have to wait & see.

But as I said the argument is between pessimists & optimists, NOT realists & homers.

Um no.

We lost six starters. We added Kolb, who is only marginally better than Fitz, and Lawson. The other 4 positions only have the back-ups who weren't good enough to start over our mediocre starters last year. And at LG we lost our back-up too so now we are down to 3rd string. Where is the improvement? Where are the talent additions?

We were 6-10 last year. We lost Levitre, McGee, Wilson, Barnett, Fitz, Kelsay and Rhinehardt. We added Kolb, Lawson and Branch. Do you REALLY think those 3 additions are enough to make a 6-10 team competitive, or even make up for the guys that we lost? Forget talent- that isn't even enough bodies to make up what we lost.

And the change in coaching staff, good or bad in the long term, pretty much always results in struggles in the short term as the players learn the new system.

Saying "we don't know" is a cop out. Obviously I don't know what's going to happen either, but I'm willing to take a look at what the team has done, and put myself out there with a prediction of what I think will happen. And btw, for all the **** I take in the off-season about my predictions being premature, they've been right a hell of a lot more than they've been wrong.

So, if you think I'm wrong and you have some reason to believe this team has improved, come out with it. Instead, all you have is "well the roster isn't final" and "we don't know how the coaching changes will affect the team."

[trapezeus]

while i find it a little stunning that 13 years later people are optimistic, i find it even more stunning that people are stunned that people are at "this probably isn't going to look good for this coming season" when we signed Kevin Kolb. Again, KEVIN KOLB. he wasn't anything at his prime. he is a below 60% completion QB. He hasn't stayed healthy, and he got cut from a bad arizona team

it's not like OP and myself are being sad sally's after we signed brees or brady. "you know they'll just suck once they get in a bills uni!" kevin kolb has blown two chances.

also, for what it's worth, if the bills avoid a qb in this first round, i'm going to actually drink the kool-aid and say that i have a little hope that the rebuilding is being done correctly.

i'll watch all the games like last year. i'm just not going to spend $1,000's of dollars doing so this year.

[justasportsfan]

lmao, the people disagreeing with me are beating a dead horse too.



see, you just made it about yourself again. Stop *****ing about people making it about you because you make it about you.

[OpIv37]

while i find it a little stunning that 13 years later people are optimistic, i find it even more stunning that people are stunned that people are at "this probably isn't going to look good for this coming season" when we signed Kevin Kolb. Again, KEVIN KOLB. he wasn't anything at his prime. he is a below 60% completion QB. He hasn't stayed healthy, and he got cut from a bad arizona team

it's not like OP and myself are being sad sally's after we signed brees or brady. "you know they'll just suck once they get in a bills uni!" kevin kolb has blown two chances.

also, for what it's worth, if the bills avoid a qb in this first round, i'm going to actually drink the kool-aid and say that i have a little hope that the rebuilding is being done correctly.

i'll watch all the games like last year. i'm just not going to spend $1,000's of dollars doing so this year.

yeah, I'll talk a big game about not spending money or time watching the team this year, but when the time comes I'll shell out for the Ticket and I'll be sitting on my couch watching every game.

I haven't lived in WNY for a football season since 2000 so I've had to jump through hoops just to watch the games on TV. And I did it (and continue to do it) through the most miserable period for a team with a pretty miserable history.

Yet, some people still have the audacity to challenge whether or not I'm a fan.....

[justasportsfan]

Yet, some people still have the audacity to challenge whether or not I'm a fan..... stop making it about them.

[OpIv37]

stop making it about them.

your attempts to get me going are much more thinly veiled than they used to be.

[justasportsfan]

your attempts to get me going are much more thinly veiled than they used to be.

wasn't trying to get you going. Just pointing it out to you .

[PTI]

while i find it a little stunning that 13 years later people are optimistic, i find it even more stunning that people are stunned that people are at "this probably isn't going to look good for this coming season" when we signed Kevin Kolb. Again, KEVIN KOLB. he wasn't anything at his prime. he is a below 60% completion QB. He hasn't stayed healthy, and he got cut from a bad arizona team

it's not like OP and myself are being sad sally's after we signed brees or brady. "you know they'll just suck once they get in a bills uni!" kevin kolb has blown two chances.

also, for what it's worth, if the bills avoid a qb in this first round, i'm going to actually drink the kool-aid and say that i have a little hope that the rebuilding is being done correctly.

i'll watch all the games like last year. i'm just not going to spend $1,000's of dollars doing so this year.

OK, this coach seems different to me is the thing. I though Greg Williams was just not prepared and overmatched, though Mularkey looked like a doofus, we all know Jauron was not going to work, and I never for one second believed Gailey was anything but a stubborn SOB who is just an offensive version of Jauron with little ability to get his team motivated.

To me Marrone is different than all those guys.

I will once again get Sunday Ticket, I will fly to Buffalo for a September game, and I will likely take the Bills Backers of Atlanta trip to Tampa Bay whenever that game is.

That is what has me more optimistic. Not saying we win the Super Bowl, or the division, but that the Bills to me will still be playing some meaningful games in December.

[Ginger Vitis]

I though Greg Williams was just not prepared



Greg Williams supposedly worked 20 hour days but you're right overall he just wasn't a good coach. Mike Mularkey being a doofus. It didn't sit well with me when word got out he was asking Mike Shanahan for advice on how to approach preseason games and the whole "hamburger" thing with Mike Holmgren advising Mularkey he should feed his team hamburgers I thought was very strange

[SABURZFAN]

I have a feeling this constantly plays in OPs head.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmXWZFPvCAU


it's been correct for the last 13 seasons.

[trapezeus]

OK, this coach seems different to me is the thing. I though Greg Williams was just not prepared and overmatched, though Mularkey looked like a doofus, we all know Jauron was not going to work, and I never for one second believed Gailey was anything but a stubborn SOB who is just an offensive version of Jauron with little ability to get his team motivated.

To me Marrone is different than all those guys.

I will once again get Sunday Ticket, I will fly to Buffalo for a September game, and I will likely take the Bills Backers of Atlanta trip to Tampa Bay whenever that game is.

That is what has me more optimistic. Not saying we win the Super Bowl, or the division, but that the Bills to me will still be playing some meaningful games in December.


no doubt marrone has a little edge over the last two guys. but aren't you concerned that the guys who picked the corpse and gailey, guys the fanbase didn't want from the get go are the ones making this decision.

Marrone seems like he's got a plan and he gets players ears. but as syracuse shows, you need talent. and he currently has to defer to a talent guy who has routinely missed in rounds 2-7 for last 3 years....And he's doing so on a team they partially gutted. I fear they are setting marrone up for failure.

and at the end of hte day if marrone fails, i won't really blame him. it will be on Russ's head as its always been.
and if he succeeds, i will hail marrone as one of hte greatest men to overcome not just the general curse of buffalo, but the meddling and useless power structure in the bills organization. success will entirely be his, failure will be handed to someone else.

i think next year will be brutal. and if winning now was the cure, the bills should have stuck it out with gailey and tried a new qb. if trying a new approach is the goal, they need to build it carefully and avoid throwing a QB into the fire.

[justasportsfan]

but aren't you concerned that the guys who picked the corpse and gailey, guys the fanbase didn't want from the get go are the ones making this decision.

The difference back then was that Nix was in a way limited to choosing from coaches that no one wanted and the only ones willing to coach the bills when he hired Gailey. This time around , teams were interested in Marrone. Thats the only reason for my optimism with Marrone.

[BillsFever21]

I don't know how anyone can't have any faith and hope this time of year. It re-energizes me every year but I've only been a fan for 23 years. 13 years of no playoffs? It sucks but to not get excited about a season would really suck. I don't know how any of you do it. If I didn't ever get excited about a season then I would have stopped following the Bills a long time ago.

I'm willing to bet that most everybody looks forward for the season to start. I know I am. They just look at the front office track record and roster compared to the rest of the AFC and NFL and it's obvious it won't be a winning season. Just because you don't expect somebody to be good doesn't mean you're not looking forward to the season or the games. I'm throwing and punching things around every game when they can't pull out a win.

Your type reminds me of Tim Tebow fans. It doesn't matter how bad he plays or that he only had a few completions in a game they will look at that one good pass and think he is one of the best in the league if he only got another shot. At least Tebow has won some games in a season even though he is a horrible passer and NFL QB. Even we can't say that for most of the Bills existence.

[BillsFever21]

Um no.

We lost six starters. We added Kolb, who is only marginally better than Fitz, and Lawson. The other 4 positions only have the back-ups who weren't good enough to start over our mediocre starters last year. And at LG we lost our back-up too so now we are down to 3rd string. Where is the improvement? Where are the talent additions?

We were 6-10 last year. We lost Levitre, McGee, Wilson, Barnett, Fitz, Kelsay and Rhinehardt. We added Kolb, Lawson and Branch. Do you REALLY think those 3 additions are enough to make a 6-10 team competitive, or even make up for the guys that we lost? Forget talent- that isn't even enough bodies to make up what we lost.

And the change in coaching staff, good or bad in the long term, pretty much always results in struggles in the short term as the players learn the new system.

Saying "we don't know" is a cop out. Obviously I don't know what's going to happen either, but I'm willing to take a look at what the team has done, and put myself out there with a prediction of what I think will happen. And btw, for all the **** I take in the off-season about my predictions being premature, they've been right a hell of a lot more than they've been wrong.

So, if you think I'm wrong and you have some reason to believe this team has improved, come out with it. Instead, all you have is "well the roster isn't final" and "we don't know how the coaching changes will affect the team."

Come on OpIv you know the drill. Any players we lose were awful to begin with and any players we bring in are viable NFL starters that could start on almost any team in the NFL. If the original 2nd or 3rd string backups are now that starters then that also automatically means that they are good players and a couple levels above the players they're replacing.

You also know that we still have the NFL draft too and that will make up for the rest of the holes and improve our chances against everyone else. We all know that no other NFL team gets to draft anybody and if they do they're not any good anyways. At least that's how some of them act when they talk about it. They sound like we're the only NFL team who gets to draft any players in a couple weeks.

[OpIv37]

Greg Williams supposedly worked 20 hour days but you're right overall he just wasn't a good coach. Mike Mularkey being a doofus. It didn't sit well with me when word got out he was asking Mike Shanahan for advice on how to approach preseason games and the whole "hamburger" thing with Mike Holmgren advising Mularkey he should feed his team hamburgers I thought was very strange

Manboobs worked 20 hour days? Maybe that was the problem. He sucked at what he was doing. If he had done less of it and worked only 12 or even the standard 8 hour day, he would have had far less opportunity to screw up and he might have skated by for a few more seasons and we would have been able to skip the Jauron era. At least Williams had a nasty D when he was here. Jauron's teams had no fire or attitude whatsoever.

[BillsFever21]

I had high hopes for Gregg Williams when he took over. He was one of the best DC's in the NFL and we always had a good defense while he was here. We couldn't find a QB and eventually his demeanor lead to him losing the locker room. Once you lose your players for good then it's time to go.

He definitely didn't lose from a lack of effort. If he could've gotten more out his offense we may have been a decent team. The Jauron hire and era was just horrible to watch. Even as bad as that was he still won more games then Gailey. That was another horrible hire by the front office.

[OpIv37]

Come on OpIv you know the drill. Any players we lose were awful to begin with and any players we bring in are viable NFL starters that could start on almost any team in the NFL. If the original 2nd or 3rd string backups are now that starters then that also automatically means that they are good players and a couple levels above the players they're replacing.

You also know that we still have the NFL draft too and that will make up for the rest of the holes and improve our chances against everyone else. We all know that no other NFL team gets to draft anybody and if they do they're not any good anyways. At least that's how some of them act when they talk about it. They sound like we're the only NFL team who gets to draft any players in a couple weeks.

Yeah, that always cracks me up about the draft. Most of the other teams in the league are already better than us (all but 7 based on the final standings and draft order). Somehow we have to close the talent gap. Drafting before all the teams that finish before us helps, but a) we have less picks than most of them and b) they still get to draft. The difference between the guy we draft at 8 and the guy NE drafts 20 picks or so later isn't going to make up the extra 6 wins they had over us.

So, we lose 6 starters and our backup to one of them and bring in 2, maybe 3 starters (depending on the D) through FA, and one of them is pretty mediocre in his own right. We have 6 draft picks, and other teams draft too.

So, how are we going to close the talent gap? How are we going to improve our team at a greater rate than the teams that are already better than us improve theirs, especially when we already took a step backwards?

I just don't see it.

Now, if someone wants to say that they think the new coaching staff is good and they think that things will be different in a couple of years when they have their system fully implemented and their right players, that I could understand. I don't entirely buy it because of the inexperience from Marrone and the OC, but I could at least understand the thought process. But for this year, it doesn't matter if Marrone is the best HC in the history of the NFL or the worst. We're screwed. We just don't have the talent and there isn't sufficient opportunity to make it up in one off-season.

[Ginger Vitis]

Manboobs was terrible at game management and wasted timeouts challenging plays that had no chance of being overturned. And punting at the opponents 32 yard line.. By Sundays he was so sleep deprived he couldn't think straight

[trapezeus]

Yeah, that always cracks me up about the draft. Most of the other teams in the league are already better than us (all but 7 based on the final standings and draft order). Somehow we have to close the talent gap. Drafting before all the teams that finish before us helps, but a) we have less picks than most of them and b) they still get to draft. The difference between the guy we draft at 8 and the guy NE drafts 20 picks or so later isn't going to make up the extra 6 wins they had over us.

So, we lose 6 starters and our backup to one of them and bring in 2, maybe 3 starters (depending on the D) through FA, and one of them is pretty mediocre in his own right. We have 6 draft picks, and other teams draft too.

So, how are we going to close the talent gap? How are we going to improve our team at a greater rate than the teams that are already better than us improve theirs, especially when we already took a step backwards?

I just don't see it.

Now, if someone wants to say that they think the new coaching staff is good and they think that things will be different in a couple of years when they have their system fully implemented and their right players, that I could understand. I don't entirely buy it because of the inexperience from Marrone and the OC, but I could at least understand the thought process. But for this year, it doesn't matter if Marrone is the best HC in the history of the NFL or the worst. We're screwed. We just don't have the talent and there isn't sufficient opportunity to make it up in one off-season.


this is what i'm hoping for. even if they aren't the play callers in previous gigs, i'm hoping they work out the kinks in this bad season, but stay bad enough to get a high pick next year. if the bills cna just pick the non-sexy positions right this year and get those guys into the rotation, they can suck pretty bad during 2013, and get a high pick to go WR, QB, CB and TE and bring those guys up to speed fast. and supplement with a couple FA here and there. it could have them on track to be a break out team in 2014. but it'll require complete excellence in an orgazination that has the most dysfunctional front office of has beens that have never left. that in and of itself makes buying that they'll get it right really just an exercise of faith. and frankly after 30+ years of faith, i just want some ****ing proof.

[feldspar]

Come on OpIv you know the drill. Any players we lose were awful to begin with and any players we bring in are viable NFL starters that could start on almost any team in the NFL. If the original 2nd or 3rd string backups are now that starters then that also automatically means that they are good players and a couple levels above the players they're replacing.

You also know that we still have the NFL draft too and that will make up for the rest of the holes and improve our chances against everyone else. We all know that no other NFL team gets to draft anybody and if they do they're not any good anyways. At least that's how some of them act when they talk about it. They sound like we're the only NFL team who gets to draft any players in a couple weeks.


Yeah, and according to some *****es, just because our last coach sucked, it should logically follow that our next one does too. And that goes for the 15 or whatever new coaches too. They all suck based on what somebody completely unrelated did, even before a down is played.

Of course, the Bills sucked last year, yet cutting bait or losing poor-to-mediocre players is somehow supposed to be a huge deal because they were starters...like we needed these players. Who did the Bills lose?

1) Nick Barnett - was good the first year he was here, yet sucked the next year. Failed his phyiscal and was released. He's STILL available. You guys complain about everything, but you complain as if there is nobody good out there anymore in the market...well, Nick Barnett is available. See any irony?
2) Donald Jones.
3) David Nelson
4) George Wilson
5) Ryan Fitzpatrick
6) Chris Kelsay
7) Andy Levitre

Besides Levitre, who else is that good? Tell me this: if these players were never Bills and were available in free agency, how psyched would you be if the Bills had signed any of these guys for the first time on the market this year? Lots of you *****es would complain that the Bills signed them, I would bet. Of course, being *****es by nature, the *****es can also complain, whine, and moan that we've let them go, acting like their departures leave huge gaping holes. Nice how the *****es can ***** either way, whether the the EXACT same player is coming in the door or going out. Based on their level of play, NONE of these guys will be hard to replace with players that are at least as good...except Levitre. NONE of them.

For Chirst's sake, these players are the same variety that you complain about when we pick them up. Now it's a big deal that we let them go.

And, of course, there is the Kolb signing, which was absolutely unacceptable to certain people around here. *****ed, cried, wailed, and moaned about it for days on end...didn't even try to wait to see what the details of the contract were. I suppose the *****es STILL feel vindicated for their crying fit, even though the contract itself was a great move.

Finally, other people act like we can pick some starters up in the draft, rather than whining about how bad our draft was before it has even happened.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, and according to some *****es, just because our last coach sucked, it should logically follow that our next one does too. And that goes for the 15 or whatever new coaches too. They all suck based on what somebody completely unrelated did, even before a down is played.

Of course, the Bills sucked last year, yet cutting bait or losing poor-to-mediocre players is somehow supposed to be a huge deal because they were starters...like we needed these players. Who did the Bills lose?

1) Nick Barnett - was good the first year he was here, yet sucked the next year. Failed his phyiscal and was released. He's STILL available. You guys complain about everything, but you complain as if there is nobody good out there anymore in the market...well, Nick Barnett is available. See any irony?
2) Donald Jones.
3) David Nelson
4) George Wilson
5) Ryan Fitzpatrick
6) Chris Kelsay
7) Andy Levitre

Besides Levitre, who else is that good? Tell me this: if these players were never Bills and were available in free agency, how psyched would you be if the Bills had signed any of these guys for the first time on the market this year? Lots of you *****es would complain that the Bills signed them, I would bet. Of course, being *****es by nature, the *****es can also complain, whine, and moan that we've let them go, acting like their departures leave huge gaping holes. Nice how the *****es can ***** either way, whether the the EXACT same player is coming in the door or going out. Based on their level of play, NONE of these guys will be hard to replace with players that are at least as good...except Levitre. NONE of them.

For Chirst's sake, these players are the same variety that you complain about when we pick them up. Now it's a big deal that we let them go.

And, of course, there is the Kolb signing, which was absolutely unacceptable to certain people around here. *****ed, cried, wailed, and moaned about it for days on end...didn't even try to wait to see what the details of the contract were. I suppose the *****es STILL feel vindicated for their crying fit, even though the contract itself was a great move.

Finally, other people act like we can pick some starters up in the draft, rather than whining about how bad our draft was before it has even happened.

If they are so easy to replace, why haven't we done it yet?

This team has been pretty good at getting rid of trash over the years. They've been really bad at replacing it with people equal or better. People ***** when we sign bad players, and people ***** when we let players go and don't replace them with someone equal or better. It makes perfect sense to anyone who actually wants the team to win.

The "starters" that we can pick up after the draft are the Nick Barnett/George Wilson types. They're the guys that other teams think they can easily replace with rookies. If you think we are going to win by cutting six starters, waiting for other teams to clean house, then replacing them with guys other teams don't want, you're out of your mind.

[better days]

If they are so easy to replace, why haven't we done it yet?

This team has been pretty good at getting rid of trash over the years. They've been really bad at replacing it with people equal or better. People ***** when we sign bad players, and people ***** when we let players go and don't replace them with someone equal or better. It makes perfect sense to anyone who actually wants the team to win.

The "starters" that we can pick up after the draft are the Nick Barnett/George Wilson types. They're the guys that other teams think they can easily replace with rookies. If you think we are going to win by cutting six starters, waiting for other teams to clean house, then replacing them with guys other teams don't want, you're out of your mind.

Well, maybe we haven't replaced anyone ELSE yet because the draft has not been held YET. AFTER the draft, the Bills will sign aaaitional players based on need

[OpIv37]

Well, maybe we haven't replaced anyone ELSE yet because the draft has not been held YET. AFTER the draft, the Bills will sign aaaitional players based on need

This team isn't going to fill all their holes in the draft. If there are players available who fill holes, it's stupid to sit back and wait until after the draft and give other teams a chance to sign them.

Going into the draft with less holes is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.

[BLeonard]

If they are so easy to replace, why haven't we done it yet?

This team has been pretty good at getting rid of trash over the years. They've been really bad at replacing it with people equal or better. People ***** when we sign bad players, and people ***** when we let players go and don't replace them with someone equal or better. It makes perfect sense to anyone who actually wants the team to win.

The "starters" that we can pick up after the draft are the Nick Barnett/George Wilson types. They're the guys that other teams think they can easily replace with rookies. If you think we are going to win by cutting six starters, waiting for other teams to clean house, then replacing them with guys other teams don't want, you're out of your mind.

Bingo.

Feldspar's list included seven players... To date, how many have the Bills replaced with players that are EQUAL or BETTER than the ones they lost? Even the most optomistic fan can only say two (Kolb and Lawson)... Even those two signings are questionable at whether or not they are BETTER than Fitz and Barnett.

So, even if you're the most optomistic Bills fan in the world, the Bills have lost 7 players and have (maybe) adequately replaced 2 of the 7. That's 5 holes still to fill.

With 6 draft picks, I don't see them all being filled by players that are EQUAL or BETTER than the ones that the Bills lost. If the Bills are super lucky, 3 of the 5 holes might be filled by the draft.

For those who say "they'll be players after the draft to fill the rest of the holes," those are gonna be either the same players that are out there right now, or players that get bumped off of their current team, due to that team actually upgrading.

THAT, in a nutshell, is the problem. The Bills 2013 roster will again be nothing more than a mish-mash of draft picks and free agents that nobody else wanted. It might be a cute story for a Hollywood movie, but in the real world, it doesn't win football games.

And, my bet is, next year, we'll be doing pretty much the exact same thing again, just with losing different players, drafting different players and signing another crop of lower to mid-tier free agents that no other team in the NFL wants.

-Bill

[BillsFever21]

Yeah, and according to some *****es, just because our last coach sucked, it should logically follow that our next one does too. And that goes for the 15 or whatever new coaches too. They all suck based on what somebody completely unrelated did, even before a down is played.

Of course, the Bills sucked last year, yet cutting bait or losing poor-to-mediocre players is somehow supposed to be a huge deal because they were starters...like we needed these players. Who did the Bills lose?

1) Nick Barnett - was good the first year he was here, yet sucked the next year. Failed his phyiscal and was released. He's STILL available. You guys complain about everything, but you complain as if there is nobody good out there anymore in the market...well, Nick Barnett is available. See any irony?
2) Donald Jones.
3) David Nelson
4) George Wilson
5) Ryan Fitzpatrick
6) Chris Kelsay
7) Andy Levitre

Besides Levitre, who else is that good? Tell me this: if these players were never Bills and were available in free agency, how psyched would you be if the Bills had signed any of these guys for the first time on the market this year? Lots of you *****es would complain that the Bills signed them, I would bet. Of course, being *****es by nature, the *****es can also complain, whine, and moan that we've let them go, acting like their departures leave huge gaping holes. Nice how the *****es can ***** either way, whether the the EXACT same player is coming in the door or going out. Based on their level of play, NONE of these guys will be hard to replace with players that are at least as good...except Levitre. NONE of them.

For Chirst's sake, these players are the same variety that you complain about when we pick them up. Now it's a big deal that we let them go.

And, of course, there is the Kolb signing, which was absolutely unacceptable to certain people around here. *****ed, cried, wailed, and moaned about it for days on end...didn't even try to wait to see what the details of the contract were. I suppose the *****es STILL feel vindicated for their crying fit, even though the contract itself was a great move.

Finally, other people act like we can pick some starters up in the draft, rather than whining about how bad our draft was before it has even happened.

I haven't made one comment on if Marrone will suck or be good and neither has many other people. Most are looking at the current ROSTER in general and the horrible guys still running the show. It's not like Jauron or Gailey where they had a previous track record of failing coaching stints. With Marrone it's too hard to tell and it remains to be seen.

He was the OC for Sean Payton but it's not like it was his offense and he called the plays. It was all on Payton and hopefully Marrone learned a lot from him that he can bring here. Then he went on to Syracuse as the Head Coach and took over a horrible program and had a couple average 8 win seasons inbetween a couple bad seasons. I'm optimistic he will be a good coach but this roster needs a ton of work and improvement before we can even think about contending.

As far as the players you listed I could give two sheets about any of them except Levitre and maybe Nelson as a slot receiver. They were all mostly junk and especially on defense and that's one of the reasons why we had the worst defense in the history of our franchise. It's not like we have replaced them with anyone good though. Just because it's a new player doesn't automatically make them a better player. The roster was crap with them and just as bad or worse without them unless their 2nd and 3rd string replacements are that much better.

I'm also willing to bet that yourself and the majority of the people who think every season is the one where we turn it around probably touted about how good all of them bad players were either when we signed them or at some point throughout their time here. It's just the norm with many that when they are a Bill they are good or have a ton of potential and when they are no longer a Bill then they were the worse players at their position in the NFL.

I remember many of the same people thinking that Fitzpatrick was the answer, that Barnett was a great signing that was going to help our defense, that George Wilson was plenty good enough and even better then Whitner when he took over for him, Nelson and Donald Jones were good receivers that could be a #2 on many teams and that Levitre was one of the best in the league. Of course now that they're gone the same people act like they knew they sucked all along, they were never good to begin with or they're not as good as the contract they got and they're a big reason as to why we sucked again.

Hell I remember just before last season many around here talking like we had one of the best WR corps in the league with Stevie, Nelson, Jones, Graham and even Marcus freaking Easley who was finally going to break out and maybe be our #2 WR.

If you and the others want to think everyone on the roster is better then they really are and when they prove they suck then act like you knew it all along and they are the main weaknesses on the team then that's your choice. Use you own judgement and think for yourself for once instead of just being a delusional fan that drinks the Kool-Aid at OBD.

[BillsFever21]

Bingo.

Feldspar's list included seven players... To date, how many have the Bills replaced with players that are EQUAL or BETTER than the ones they lost? Even the most optomistic fan can only say two (Kolb and Lawson)... Even those two signings are questionable at whether or not they are BETTER than Fitz and Barnett.

So, even if you're the most optomistic Bills fan in the world, the Bills have lost 7 players and have (maybe) adequately replaced 2 of the 7. That's 5 holes still to fill.

With 6 draft picks, I don't see them all being filled by players that are EQUAL or BETTER than the ones that the Bills lost. If the Bills are super lucky, 3 of the 5 holes might be filled by the draft.

For those who say "they'll be players after the draft to fill the rest of the holes," those are gonna be either the same players that are out there right now, or players that get bumped off of their current team, due to that team actually upgrading.

THAT, in a nutshell, is the problem. The Bills 2013 roster will again be nothing more than a mish-mash of draft picks and free agents that nobody else wanted. It might be a cute story for a Hollywood movie, but in the real world, it doesn't win football games.

And, my bet is, next year, we'll be doing pretty much the exact same thing again, just with losing different players, drafting different players and signing another crop of lower to mid-tier free agents that no other team in the NFL wants.

-Bill

It's just another example of the same people thinking that just because you get rid of your junk players that automatically makes you better. If that was the case then we would be a dynasty by now since we've had tons of them over the past 5-10 years. The sad part is that most of them were probably talking about how much better they were when they replaced their predecessor so of course we were going to be better. They just can't rarely think for themselves and come to a conclusion based on them assumptions.

And of course EVERY season we're going to catch up with everyone else and improve our team because we have the NFL draft. Once again it's like we're the only team with that luxury. Also like you and others have said it isn't possible to find 6 good players to replace the 7+ you got rid of not to mention the many weak spots already all over the roster. But hey once again we're the only ones with the luxury of drafting and we will catch up with everyone else in a couple weeks.

[feldspar]

Who is to say there are holes where you say? Do you REALLY think that TJ Graham doesn't have the potential to match friggin' Donald Jones' production? That's an example of potential. Donald Jones' leaving doesn't really leave a whole...get real. He'll probably look better with Tom Brady throwing him the ball this year, though...

The point is that there ARE guys on this team already that can put into better situations. Hell, Stevie Johnson did nothing his first two years in Buffalo. Do the *****es take these types of things into account? I doubt it. Players emerge under certain schemes if put into positions to succeed. Do you disagree?

We added Alan Branch to the d-line. Would you prefer Chris Kelsay? I wouldn't. Time for him to go.

Do you think that Aaron Williams might play better than George Wilson if we put him in at Strong Safety...another example.

We've already replaced Fitzpatrick. Kolb is at least as good IMO, and his potential ceiling is higher. The contract details are excellent, although the *****es don't want to admit they were wrong and overreacted AGAIN! The biggest thing, as always, is QB, and we'll do something about that in the draft. Of course, the *****es will complain that we didn't get Joe Montana instead of looking at who is available, if they even do that.

David Nelson. Really? This guy was nothing, really. I have zero doubt he can be replaced easily...upgraded pretty easily.

We need a Guard to replace Levitre, granted.

No team fills ALL of their holes, either. The Bills, with the change of the regime, are evaluating the current roster and figuring how they can use the players on it. That's what they are doing. They have certain systems in mind that they are wise not to share with everyone. You don't just go out and get "a linebacker" if he won't fit your system. You plug guys into roles that fit your purposes like that...you don't build your team through free agency because guys played fairly well in other systems.

After the draft, lots of teams will release players, including the Bills. The "build through the draft" philosophy itself is a sound one. The market will be a lot different after the draft.

Of course, if we spend ALL of our money, it will make it a lot harder to sign Byrd and Wood during the season too...in that case the *****es will complain. There is no satisfying *****es...EVER. Would you rather have a BS free agency signing to satisfy you for a second, or do you want to resign Byrd? Wood?

The *****es will never say anything positive, such as "I think Mike Pettine can turn this defense around. The talent on the line is very good." Or "if we can harness the talent on that line, it will benefit the rest of the defense greatly." *****es ***** above all else. Lots of *****es were calling CJ Spiller a bust before last year...lots and lots of *****es.

[OpIv37]

Yeah here we go again... MAYBE Graham can be good and MAYBE Wiliams can be good at S even though he sucks at CB... It's all based on people doing things they have never proven they can do. No facts to back it up.

And has anyone affiliated with the team actually said Williams is moving to S? And if he does, what do we do about our already thin CB situation?

As far as Graham, this myth about player improvement from year 1 to year 2? Someone says it every single year since this board has been in existence and it has yet to happen. Keep saying it though. Eventually you'll be right and I'm sure you'll ignore 10 years of it not happening and pull the "I told you so" card.

Oh and Graham still has Kolb throwing to him, who may be better than Fitx, but better than Fitz doesn't mean good enough.

[feldspar]

Yeah here we go again... MAYBE Graham can be good and MAYBE Wiliams can be good at S even though he sucks at CB... It's all based on people doing things they have never proven they can do. No facts to back it up.

And has anyone affiliated with the team actually said Williams is moving to S? And if he does, what do we do about our already thin CB situation?

As far as Graham, this myth about player improvement from year 1 to year 2? Someone says it every single year since this board has been in existence and it has yet to happen. Keep saying it though. Eventually you'll be right and I'm sure you'll ignore 10 years of it not happening and pull the "I told you so" card.

Oh and Graham still has Kolb throwing to him, who may be better than Fitx, but better than Fitz doesn't mean good enough.

Enter the queen *****, stage left. The biggest ***** of them all. Humungous *****. Always trying to find the most negative aspects of anything.

Tell you what, why don't you explain to us the specific things that the Bills should have done through this free agency period so far that would have stopped the flow of blood from your vagina? You simply CANNOT do that, because you really have zero idea of the particulars of player transactions in the NFL. Admit it. You have zero clue. You just *****, *****, and ***** some more without having any real CONCRETE suggestions as to what would ever stop your incessant *****ing.

Explain to me your ideal scenario as to what the Bills should have done in this free agency period so far, citing specific players. You can't do it, as you've already demonstrated. So, if you are honest with yourself, you are really just *****ing into a vacuum. *****ing blindly into a black hole of non-reason. You are like a little girl in distress that wants her daddy to do something...ANYTHING.

And you'll be the first ass-wipe to say "I told you so" later, even though the only thing you said was that the Bills suck, they have sucked, and they will continue to suck...said the same thing a million times...way to go out on a limb there, Champ.

[BLeonard]

And you'll be the first ass-wipe to say "I told you so" later, even though the only thing you said was that the Bills suck, they have sucked, and they will continue to suck...said the same thing a million times...way to go out on a limb there, Champ.

Last I checked, for the past 13 years, he's been right. For some of us, the Bills have done nothing to show us that things will be different in year 14.

I've said this to you in other threads and have no problem saying it again.... Bookmark this and when the Bills make the playoffs, I'll be more than happy to have you throw every single comment I've made back in my face.

It's real simple: Until the Bills actually prove it on the football field, after 13 seasons, people are more than justified to say that the Bills suck and will continue to suck, regardless of which chairs are rearranged on the Titanic to dupe fans into thinking that it'll really be different this time.

-Bill

[feldspar]

Last I checked, for the past 13 years, he's been right. For some of us, the Bills have done nothing to show us that things will be different in year 14.

I've said this to you in other threads and have no problem saying it again.... Bookmark this and when the Bills make the playoffs, I'll be more than happy to have you throw every single comment I've made back in my face.

It's real simple: Until the Bills actually prove it on the football field, after 13 seasons, people are more than justified to say that the Bills suck and will continue to suck, regardless of which chairs are rearranged on the Titanic to dupe fans into thinking that it'll really be different this time.

-Bill

But what you *****es do not realize is that you are incredibly boring at best.

Instead of discussing particulars on their individual merit, you just expect the worst and endlessly complain about the same things. I don't think the real *****es even think things through a lot of times. Take Opie for example...since he won't accept mediocrity, he demands so much out of this free agent period so far. Complains endlessly, but he really doesn't even know what he's complaining about anymore, if he ever did. His banter is useless because there is no substance to it.

WE NEED TO PICK SOMEBODY UP IN FREE AGENCY!!!!
Yeah, that's very interesting to the rest of us...who exactly?
...crickets.

You guys just need to say Ralph, Brandon, and "fill-in-the-blank" sucks and then just shut up, because that's all you're really saying. Instead, we have 69,000 posts of repetition.

OPIE, tell me WHO we should have picked up in free agency so far, then we'll actually have something to talk about. Just Levitre, right? Expand your horizons and actually THINK about these things.

[OpIv37]

Enter the queen *****, stage left. The biggest ***** of them all. Humungous *****. Always trying to find the most negative aspects of anything.

Tell you what, why don't you explain to us the specific things that the Bills should have done through this free agency period so far that would have stopped the flow of blood from your vagina? You simply CANNOT do that, because you really have zero idea of the particulars of player transactions in the NFL. Admit it. You have zero clue. You just *****, *****, and ***** some more without having any real CONCRETE suggestions as to what would ever stop your incessant *****ing.

Explain to me your ideal scenario as to what the Bills should have done in this free agency period so far, citing specific players. You can't do it, as you've already demonstrated. So, if you are honest with yourself, you are really just *****ing into a vacuum. *****ing blindly into a black hole of non-reason. You are like a little girl in distress that wants her daddy to do something...ANYTHING.

And you'll be the first ass-wipe to say "I told you so" later, even though the only thing you said was that the Bills suck, they have sucked, and they will continue to suck...said the same thing a million times...way to go out on a limb there, Champ.
Lmao.

I never said I knew what the Bills should have or could have done.

What's done is done. I'm simply doing the best I can to make a prediction for the season based on how things look right now. You are changing the topic and attacking me for "*****ing" because you can't refute what I said. The team has gotten worse and your suggestion that they might not have holes is based on nothing but blind hope that players can do things that they have yet to prove they are capable of.

[OpIv37]

But what you *****es do not realize is that you are incredibly boring at best.

Instead of discussing particulars on their individual merit, you just expect the worst and endlessly complain about the same things. I don't think the real *****es even think things through a lot of times. Take Opie for example...since he won't accept mediocrity, he demands so much out of this free agent period so far. Complains endlessly, but he really doesn't even know what he's complaining about anymore, if he ever did. His banter is useless because there is no substance to it.

WE NEED TO PICK SOMEBODY UP IN FREE AGENCY!!!!
Yeah, that's very interesting to the rest of us...who exactly?
...crickets.


So, you expect fans who have lives and jobs and follow football in their spare time to be able to find free agents.

But you get frustrated when people like me try to hold the FO (read: people making 6 and 7 figures working for the Bills full time) to that same standard.

Hmmmm.......

[feldspar]

Lmao.

I never said I knew what the Bills should have or could have done

Yeah, I know, Opie. That's the problem...you didn't say much of any at all in particular.

Not really saying anything doesn't keep you from talking though, does it?

[BLeonard]

But what you *****es do not realize is that you are incredibly boring at best.

Seems we're keeping you busy... You keep replying.


Instead of discussing particulars on their individual merit, you just expect the worst and endlessly complain about the same things.

Because, for the most part, the problems are the same as they have been for years:

Needed a QB 3 years ago... Still need one.
Needed good LB's 3 years ago... Still need them.
Needed a better OLine 3 years ago... Had one, then let probably the best member of that line go, along with his backup and have yet to replace either.



I don't think the real *****es even think things through a lot of times. Take Opie for example...since he won't accept mediocrity, he demands so much out of this free agent period so far. Complains endlessly, but he really doesn't even know what he's complaining about anymore, if he ever did. His banter is useless because there is no substance to it.

WE NEED TO PICK SOMEBODY UP IN FREE AGENCY!!!!
Yeah, that's very interesting to the rest of us...who exactly?

Plenty of suggestions have been made...

Tendering Donald Jones would have, at the very least, kept him off of the Patriots roster, where he likley will end up burning the Bills next season.
Keep Andy Levitre. If you're gonna let him go, keep Chad Rinehart.
Anquan Bolden was traded to San Francisco for a 6th round pick...

X-Era posted a thread with 7 players that he felt would be "upgrades": http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/217534-We-should-be-looking-for-upgrades



James Harrison- Right now is better than any current OLB
Dannel Ellerbe- Better than any current ILB
Erin Henderson- More proven than any other OLB
Paul Kruger- See Harrison
LaRon Landry- Better than George Wilson
Brandon Gibson- More established than Donald Jones and has better upside IMO
Dustin Keller- Better than Caussin or Lee which he likely will be replacing


Here was my reply:



That's all well and good... Now, let's see how many of these "upgrades" the Bills are actually able to sign...

That's been a big part of the issue. The Bills' idea of "upgrade" has been the following:

1: Let good player go in Free Agency, while continuosly preaching "draft, develop and retain."
2: Promote the former player's backup to a starting role, claiming that "there isn't much of a dropoff" and "he just needs playing time."
3: Draft a rookie to fill the backup role, again preaching "draft, develop and retain."


I can't speak for others, but this is what pisses me off, personally. The Bills cut all these players, but fail to actually upgrade the positions. Then, when the season starts, we end up playing a rookie or a former backup as a starter and then some are wondering why the Bills are out of the playoffs again before Thanksgiving.

My philosophy is pretty simple: If you're gonna cut a guy, or let them go vis Free Agency, at least get a guy that's as good, if not better, than the guy that's leaving.

Unfortunately, the Bills rarely do that, instead relying on rookies or former backups to magically just be better than they ever have been before.

Hell, look no further than the Quarterback position currently... Tavaris Jackson, who wasn't even deemed good enough to dress ahead of Tyler Thigpen last season, could very well be the Bills starter on Opening Day this year.

I certainly won't claim to have all of the answers when it comes to who exactly the Bills should or shouldn't get in Free Agency, but I do know that simply doing nothing to fill holes in the roster (again, the same holes that have been there for over 3 seasons now) isn't a formula for success.... The past 13 seasons have shown me that.

-Bill

[OpIv37]

Yeah, I know, Opie. That's the problem...you didn't say much of any at all in particular.

Not really saying anything doesn't keep you from talking though, does it?
I think I've proven over the years that I know a hell of a lot more than most people on this site.

You are attempting to hold me accountable for not knowing something that I never claimed to know. But some things will never change. I will always take crap from people like you as long as I am willing to state the unpopular truth.

[feldspar]

So, you expect fans who have lives and jobs and follow football in their spare time to be able to find free agents.

But you get frustrated when people like me try to hold the FO (read: people making 6 and 7 figures working for the Bills full time) to that same standard.

Hmmmm.......

Yeah, hmmmmm. Right.

I expect you to have something to say when you talk. "Ralph sucks, Brandon sucks, the Bills suck, and "fill in the blank" sucks is not compelling reading. There is no insight there whatsoever. You seem to have enough time to post SIXTY-NINE-THOUSAND times, though, don't you? I suggest you talk less and listen more. Spend your posting time finding out about things you just blindly assume.

Then you go around ambushing people that have the temerity to say something like "this was a good signing." Look no further than this thread as evidence of that. You actually seem to be motivated to eliminate positive things being said about this team at times, even when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

You don't know what you are talking about, and just fall back on the same old generalities. Talk about boring...annoying too, especially when you claim to be equivocally correct without even saying anything really. OK, so the Bills suck. Let me know when you have something else to say, *****.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, hmmmmm. Right.

I expect you to have something to say when you talk. "Ralph sucks, Brandon sucks, the Bills suck, and "fill in the blank" sucks is not compelling reading. There is no insight there whatsoever. You seem to have enough time to post SIXTY-NINE-THOUSAND times, though, don't you? Then you go around ambushing people that have the temerity to say something like "this was a good signing." Look no further than this thread as evidence of that.

You don't know what you are talking about, and just fall back on the same old generalities. Talk about boring...annoying too, especially when you claim to be equivocally correct without even saying anything really. OK, so the Bills suck. Let me know when you have something else to say, *****.
Really? If there is no insight, then why do people like you continue to argue with me and continue to be proven wrong time and time again?

I never said I had some incredible insight. All I'm doing is stating what should be incredibly obvious to anyone with the slightest degree of objectivity. Yet people like you continue to argue with me and continue to be proven wrong time and time again.

And yes, I just repeated myself twice in the same post. Nothing ever seems to get through to you the first time so I figured I'd try to get ahead of the game.

[OpIv37]

Just to recap this conversation:

feldspar: "I think this team will be good"
Op: "I think this team will be bad and here's why"
F: "well some players may do some things they've never proven they can do"
O: "that's not realistic- you'd making assumptions"
f: "you're just *****ing"
O: "it's not about me"
F: "well you never said what the team should have done"
O: "I never claimed I knew. I simply commented on the state of the team as it exists today"
F: "everything you say is boring and obvious."
O: "then why are you arguing with me?"
F: "uhhhhh...."

[feldspar]

Just to recap this conversation:

feldspar: "I think this team will be good"
Op: "I think this team will be bad and here's why"
F: "well some players may do some things they've never proven they can do"
O: "that's not realistic- you'd making assumptions"
f: "you're just *****ing"
O: "it's not about me"
F: "well you never said what the team should have done"
O: "I never claimed I knew. I simply commented on the state of the team as it exists today"
F: "everything you say is boring and obvious."
O: "then why are you arguing with me?"
F: "uhhhhh...."

Maybe you are not only too busy to research about the actual content of the conversations you've had 69,000 things to say about, but you are too dense to understand what I'm talking about as well. If this is your take on the dialogue, then you are just plain stupid. I really don't know how else to put it. This is just SOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong...in just about every way, this is wrong.

You have no substance, and you just talk in blind negative generalities. That's it. Please tell me where I said that I thought this team would be good...I could go on, but I don't suppose you'd get the point if I did.

You say that the Bills suck and you are proven right...way to go...nothing besides that generality, really though.

[BertSquirtgum]

LOSERS

[OpIv37]

Maybe you are not only too busy to research about the actual content of the conversations you've had 69,000 things to say about, but you are too dense to understand what I'm talking about as well. If this is your take on the dialogue, then you are just plain stupid. I really don't know how else to put it. This is just SOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong...in just about every way, this is wrong.

You have no substance, and you just talk in blind negative generalities. That's it. Please tell me where I said that I thought this team would be good...I could go on, but I don't suppose you'd get the point if I did.

You say that the Bills suck and you are proven right...way to go...nothing besides that generality, really though.
Yet you continue to argue with this supposed "generality".....

[Captain Obvious]

As far as Graham, this myth about player improvement from year 1 to year 2? Someone says it every single year since this board has been in existence and it has yet to happen.


Travis Henry..Aaron Shobel.. Nate Clements..Terrence McGee..Kyle Williams.. Marshawn Lynch.. Andy Levitre... Eric Wood..David Nelson.. CJ Spiller these players all improved from there 1st year to 2nd year.. For you to say no Buffalo Bill has never gotten better in Year 2 and that it has yet to happen is just not true

[better days]

This team isn't going to fill all their holes in the draft. If there are players available who fill holes, it's stupid to sit back and wait until after the draft and give other teams a chance to sign them.

Going into the draft with less holes is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.

WRONG Op. You don't know what holes you will have until AFTER the draft. Also, after the draft a number of teams will cut good vets to sign cheaper younger, not necessarily better draft picks so the number of FAs will INCREASE AFTER the draft.

[better days]

Bingo.

Feldspar's list included seven players... To date, how many have the Bills replaced with players that are EQUAL or BETTER than the ones they lost? Even the most optomistic fan can only say two (Kolb and Lawson)... Even those two signings are questionable at whether or not they are BETTER than Fitz and Barnett.

So, even if you're the most optomistic Bills fan in the world, the Bills have lost 7 players and have (maybe) adequately replaced 2 of the 7. That's 5 holes still to fill.

With 6 draft picks, I don't see them all being filled by players that are EQUAL or BETTER than the ones that the Bills lost. If the Bills are super lucky, 3 of the 5 holes might be filled by the draft.

For those who say "they'll be players after the draft to fill the rest of the holes," those are gonna be either the same players that are out there right now, or players that get bumped off of their current team, due to that team actually upgrading.

THAT, in a nutshell, is the problem. The Bills 2013 roster will again be nothing more than a mish-mash of draft picks and free agents that nobody else wanted. It might be a cute story for a Hollywood movie, but in the real world, it doesn't win football games.

And, my bet is, next year, we'll be doing pretty much the exact same thing again, just with losing different players, drafting different players and signing another crop of lower to mid-tier free agents that no other team in the NFL wants.

-Bill

Some of the holes will be filled by players already on the team. And it won't take much to fill their shoes. The only REAL hole is LG.

[OpIv37]

Kyle Williams.. Marshawn Lynch.. Andy Levitre... Eric Wood..David Nelson.. CJ Spiller these players all improved from there 1st year to 2nd year.. For you to say no Buffalo Bill has never gotten better in Year 2 and that it has yet to happen is just not true

Lmao- I guess we only had 6 rookies in the 10 years this board has been in existence. I could give you at least twice that many who didn't, starting with Dareus.

What I've said-and what has remained consistently true- is that the improvement of players from year one to year two has not significantly improved the team since this board was created. Yet, every year, someone mentions it as a reason why this team will get better.

And just for the record, Spiller didn't come on until this past year, his 3rd. In his second year, he just had a few good games filling in for Jackson at the end of an already spoiled season.

[OpIv37]

WRONG Op. You don't know what holes you will have until AFTER the draft. Also, after the draft a number of teams will cut good vets to sign cheaper younger, not necessarily better draft picks so the number of FAs will INCREASE AFTER the draft.

You can't be ****ing serious. Anyone with half a brain knows what this team's holes are. If there's an opportunity to fill one now, DO IT. Don't wait until after the draft and hope someone that could actually help is a) a cap casualty and b) willing to sign here. That's not a strategy for improvement. That'a desperation.

[feldspar]

Yet you continue to argue with this supposed "generality".....

Just trying to get through to you, buddy. Lost cause, I know. It's extremely hard to "argue" with somebody that doesn't listen. You still have no idea what I've been talking about...maybe your life and your job prevented you from understanding what I've said.

On the other hand, I'm happy to see that your life and your job does not prevent you from continuing this conversation at all hours as well...or posting 69,000 times...your life and your job just prevents you from spending time learning what your talking about...and preaching to others.

You must learn the concept of CONTEXT, my son. You speak in negative generalities with no substance, admit it. The first step is to admit it...Yeah, just tell me again one more time that the Bills suck SOOO much and this will continue, the reason being those couple of few guys with high-profile positions. This will hold true NO MATTER WHAT else happens, so you should prevent fans from seeing anything positive anywhere else. That's some good stuff, and I think that I need to hear is at least 69,000 more times before it really sinks in.

[OpIv37]

Just trying to get through to you, buddy. Lost cause, I know. It's extremely hard to "argue" with somebody that doesn't listen. You still have no idea what I've been talking about...maybe your life and your job prevented you from understanding what I've said.

On the other hand, I'm happy to see that your life and your job does not prevent you from continuing this conversation at all hours as well...or posting 69,000 times...your life and your job just prevents you from spending time learning what your talking about...and preaching to others.

You must learn the concept of CONTEXT, my son. You speak in negative generalities with no substance, admit it. The first step is to admit it...Yeah, just tell me again one more time that the Bills suck SOOO much and this will continue, the reason being those couple of few guys with high-profile positions. This will hold true NO MATTER WHAT else happens, so you should prevent fans from seeing anything positive anywhere else. That's some good stuff, and I think that I need to hear is at least 69,000 more times before it really sinks in.

No substance? Lmao. I told you why I thought the team would be bad. Your only response was "well maybe Graham will be good."

You're right. I have no idea what you're talking about because all you've said is idealistic assumptions that players will do things they've never proven they could do and that we will somehow magically find the guys to fill holes. The you have the gall to accuse me of lacking substance.

And I never said there were no positives. But when a team is as bad as the Bills, the negatives far outweigh the positives and define the outcome. That's just the unfortunate reality.

Then again, at this point I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you are arguing things I never actually said. You have yet to refute my points even as you accuse me of lacking substance.

[feldspar]

No substance? Lmao. I told you why I thought the team would be bad. Your only response was "well maybe Graham will be good."

You're right. I have no idea what you're talking about because all you've said is idealistic assumptions that players will do things they've never proven they could do and that we will somehow magically find the guys to fill holes. The you have the gall to accuse me of lacking substance.

And I never said there were no positives. But when a team is as bad as the Bills, the negatives far outweigh the positives and define the outcome. That's just the unfortunate reality.

Then again, at this point I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you are arguing things I never actually said. You have yet to refute my points even as you accuse me of lacking substance.

You are absolutely hopeless.

Have a good time.

Over and out, Champ.

[OpIv37]

Lose the debate, accuse me of being hopeless.

See you at 2-14. 3-13 if Graham improves.

[feldspar]

Lose the debate, accuse me of being hopeless.

See you at 2-14. 3-13 if Graham improves.

Aren't your life and job calling you yet?

Why fixate on what I said about Graham in particular? Do you think that it's not entirely possible that he'll eclipse Donald Jones' production? All I said about that. I said several other things. You said we are doomed NO MATTER WHAT in other threads. You say these things because you are incapable of speaking to particulars, with your life and job and everything taking up the majority of your time, outside of posting on this forum all day long.

LOL, you will win every debate in your own mind if you don't listen to the other side. If you don't know the details of the issues, you have no business being in the debate at all. You really are pathetic enough to think that you've "won" this "debate." Your mental process sucks more than the Bills. Did you ever even admit that your reaction to the Kolb signing was completely irrational?

I won't be responding to your next post. You'll strangely consider this some kind of half-assed victory on your part, and I would expect nothing less.

[OpIv37]

Aren't your life and job calling you yet?

Why fixate on what I said about Graham in particular? Do you think that it's not entirely possible that he'll eclipse Donald Jones' production? All I said about that. I said several other things. You said we are doomed NO MATTER WHAT in other threads. You say these things because you are incapable of speaking to particulars, with your life and job and everything taking up the majority of your time, outside of posting on this forum all day long.

LOL, you will win every debate in your own mind if you don't listen to the other side. If you don't know the details of the issues, you have no business being in the debate at all. You really are pathetic enough to think that you've "won" this "debate." Your mental process sucks more than the Bills. Did you ever even admit that your reaction to the Kolb signing was completely irrational?

I won't be responding to your next post. You'll strangely consider this some kind of half-assed victory on your part, and I would expect nothing less.

Lmao.

Not every side is equal.

No matter what you say, we lost 6 starters off a 6-10 team and only replaced two of them, one of them with Kolb. Nothing the "other side" can say changes that. It's not that I didn't listen. It's that the argument is invalid.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Travis Henry..Aaron Shobel.. Nate Clements..Terrence McGee..Kyle Williams.. Marshawn Lynch.. Andy Levitre... Eric Wood..David Nelson.. CJ Spiller these players all improved from there 1st year to 2nd year.. For you to say no Buffalo Bill has never gotten better in Year 2 and that it has yet to happen is just not true

LMFAO You listed ten players. Three of them left the Bills after their rookie deals expired, a fourth is entering his final rookie deal season without an extension, and two others were dealt away for pennies on the dollar. That sheds light on the other problem the Bills have with building from within.

[Captain Obvious]

LMFAO You listed ten players. Three of them left the Bills after their rookie deals expired, a fourth is entering his final rookie deal season without an extension, and two others were dealt away for pennies on the dollar. That sheds light on the other problem the Bills have with building from within.

Im fully aware that the Bills FO has sucked at drafting football players and the majority of the players they pick don't show any improvement after there rookie season.. OP implied NO..NONE..ZERO players have ever shown improvement after there rookie season in the last 10 years..And what is with this OPIAN logic arbitrarily dismissing Spiller having those very productive games when Fred Jackson got hurt in the 2nd half of the 2011 season. And what difference does it make if those games happened when the Bills were falling out of contention of a wild card spot.. In 2010 Spillers YPC was 3.8 in 2011 Spillers YPC was 5.2 Spiller was much improved his 2nd season compared to his rookie season

[OpIv37]

Im fully aware that the Bills FO has sucked at drafting football players and the majority of the players they pick don't show any improvement after there rookie season.. OP implied NO..NONE..ZERO players have ever shown improvement after there rookie season in the last 10 years..And what is with this OPIAN logic arbitrarily dismissing Spiller having those very productive games when Fred Jackson got hurt in the 2nd half of the 2011 season. And what difference does it make if those games happened when the Bills were falling out of contention of a wild card spot.. In 2010 Spillers YPC was 3.8 in 2011 Spillers YPC was 5.2 Spiller was much improved his 2nd season compared to his rookie season

My point wasn't that no player has ever improved from year 1 to year 2.

My point was, and remains, that player improvement from year 1 to year 2 has never been enough to actually make the team significantly better. Yet, every year, people on this site claim it as a reason why the team will be better than I am claiming.

Maybe they will eventually be right, but until it actually happens, then it's more grasping at straws.

And for the record, ypc isn't the only measure of a player's performance. You are cherry-picking stats yet again.

[justasportsfan]

Just to recap this conversation:

feldspar: "I think this team will be good"
Op: "I think this team will be bad and here's why"
F: "well some players may do some things they've never proven they can do"
O: "that's not realistic- you'd making assumptions"
f: "you're just *****ing"
O: "it's not about me"
F: "well you never said what the team should have done"
O: "I never claimed I knew. I simply commented on the state of the team as it exists today"
F: "everything you say is boring and obvious."
O: "then why are you arguing with me?"
F: "uhhhhh...."

stop making this about you.

[better days]

Lmao.

Not every side is equal.

No matter what you say, we lost 6 starters off a 6-10 team and only replaced two of them, one of them with Kolb. Nothing the "other side" can say changes that. It's not that I didn't listen. It's that the argument is invalid.

Your argument is FLAWED. The Bills have players on the team already to replace some of those 6 starters. Searcy split time with Wilson at Safery last year & played better than Wilson did. Also they may give Williams a shot at safety. So that is one hole they don't need to worry about fixing. There are other players at other positions already on the team that can replace the scrubs lost & more & better players will be added before the season starts. LG is the only REAL hole that needs to be filled & I'm sure it will be.

[OpIv37]

Your argument is FLAWED. The Bills have players on the team already to replace some of those 6 starters. Searcy split time with Wilson at Safery last year & played better than Wilson did. Also they may give Williams a shot at safety. So that is one hole they don't need to worry about fixing. There are other players at other positions already on the team that can replace the scrubs lost & more & better players will be added before the season starts. LG is the only REAL hole that needs to be filled & I'm sure it will be.

lmao if you think LG is the only real hole.

lmao if you think there are already players on the team who can replace the scrubs. If they can replace them, why were they riding the pine last year while the scrubs played? It's typical homer thinking- "well we got rid of a scrub so the guy behind him will be better for no other reason than he wears a Bills uniform."

lmao if you think that the assumption that they MAY give Aaron Williams a shot at S means anything. We don't even know if he'll get the shot and if he does we don't know how he'll do. That's not a replacement. It's more desperation.

As far as "better players will be added," please. Once again, that's an assumption that a) there are still better players out there and b) this FO will be capable of signing them. Neither of those two things are anywhere close to certain.

Seriously, I still can't believe that you accuse me of having a flawed argument as you say LG is the only real hole on this team. I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to respond because I'm sure there is no way to get through to someone who thinks that irrationally.

[BertSquirtgum]

You can't be ****ing serious. Anyone with half a brain knows what this team's holes are. If there's an opportunity to fill one now, DO IT. Don't wait until after the draft and hope someone that could actually help is a) a cap casualty and b) willing to sign here. That's not a strategy for improvement. That'a desperation.

Why would you fill it NOW with a less talented older person when could sign someone after the draft who is more talented and could be younger? Very dumb OP.

[BertSquirtgum]

lmao if you think LG is the only real hole.

lmao if you think there are already players on the team who can replace the scrubs. If they can replace them, why were they riding the pine last year while the scrubs played? It's typical homer thinking- "well we got rid of a scrub so the guy behind him will be better for no other reason than he wears a Bills uniform."

lmao if you think that the assumption that they MAY give Aaron Williams a shot at S means anything. We don't even know if he'll get the shot and if he does we don't know how he'll do. That's not a replacement. It's more desperation.

As far as "better players will be added," please. Once again, that's an assumption that a) there are still better players out there and b) this FO will be capable of signing them. Neither of those two things are anywhere close to certain.

Seriously, I still can't believe that you accuse me of having a flawed argument as you say LG is the only real hole on this team. I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to respond because I'm sure there is no way to get through to someone who thinks that irrationally.

There are two positions that really need to be filled. That's LG and LB. The rest is debatable because the new coaches most likely think highly of the younger talent on the team, more so than arm chair GM OP.

[OpIv37]

Why would you fill it NOW with a less talented older person when could sign someone after the draft who is more talented and could be younger? Very dumb OP.

because you don't know if you'll have the opportunity to get a more talented younger person. Duh. Very dumb, Hurk. Not that I should have expected anything less from you.

[OpIv37]

There are two positions that really need to be filled. That's LG and LB. The rest is debatable because the new coaches most likely think highly of the younger talent on the team, more so than arm chair GM OP.

So it's debatable because you think you know what the new coaches most likely think?

Put another qualifier in there. Go ahead- you can do it!

[better days]

lmao if you think LG is the only real hole.

lmao if you think there are already players on the team who can replace the scrubs. If they can replace them, why were they riding the pine last year while the scrubs played? It's typical homer thinking- "well we got rid of a scrub so the guy behind him will be better for no other reason than he wears a Bills uniform."

lmao if you think that the assumption that they MAY give Aaron Williams a shot at S means anything. We don't even know if he'll get the shot and if he does we don't know how he'll do. That's not a replacement. It's more desperation.

As far as "better players will be added," please. Once again, that's an assumption that a) there are still better players out there and b) this FO will be capable of signing them. Neither of those two things are anywhere close to certain.

Seriously, I still can't believe that you accuse me of having a flawed argument as you say LG is the only real hole on this team. I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to respond because I'm sure there is no way to get through to someone who thinks that irrationally.

You are responding because you LOVE to argue. If you were told it was night & dark outside, you would insist the streetlights give off plenty of light.

I already said, Searcy played better than Wilson last year & split time with him about 50/50. I think there is a good chance Searcy & Williams split time there this year.

Wilson was not a real loss & nobody else was except for Levitre.

All those scrubs that are gone can be replaced by scrubs at least as good & some will be replaced by GOOD players.

[BertSquirtgum]

So it's debatable because you think you know what the new coaches most likely think?

Put another qualifier in there. Go ahead- you can do it!

You're so obtuse that it's pathetic. You just keep digging a deeper and deeper hole in this thread. I found the last two pages rather amusing.

[OpIv37]

You are responding because you LOVE to argue. If you were told it was night & dark outside, you would insist the streetlights give off plenty of light.

I already said, Searcy played better than Wilson last year & split time with him about 50/50. I think there is a good chance Searcy & Williams split time there this year.

Wilson was not a real loss & nobody else was except for Levitre.

All those scrubs that are gone can be replaced by scrubs at least as good & some will be replaced by GOOD players.
I am not debating that they can be replaced. Obviously they can be. The point is that they HAVEN'T been replaced.

Wilson was no real loss but we have nobody better. Williams has never played S in the NFL before and he is ****ty at CB, yet, you assume that Searcy and Williams splitting time is better than Searcy and Wilson splitting time. It's completely illogical.

[OpIv37]

You're so obtuse that it's pathetic. You just keep digging a deeper and deeper hole in this thread. I found the last two pages rather amusing.
lmao- you haven't had a single post with any substance in this thread but you say I'm digging myself deeper into a hole, even as you make yet another post to take a dig at me without adding any substance.

[BertSquirtgum]

because you don't know if you'll have the opportunity to get a more talented younger person. Duh. Very dumb, Hurk. Not that I should have expected anything less from you.

Please list the players who you think the Bills should sign right NOW to make them a better team and keep their cap low enough to sign others that may be released.

[better days]

I am not debating that they can be replaced. Obviously they can be. The point is that they HAVEN'T been replaced.

Wilson was no real loss but we have nobody better. Williams has never played S in the NFL before and he is ****ty at CB, yet, you assume that Searcy and Williams splitting time is better than Searcy and Wilson splitting time. It's completely illogical.

It is not illogical to think Williams can play better than Wilson. He is younger, bigger & faster than Wilson. Wilson is OLD & SLOW, he made FEW plays last year, EASILY replaced.

[BertSquirtgum]

lmao- you haven't had a single post with any substance in this thread but you say I'm digging myself deeper into a hole, even as you make yet another post to take a dig at me without adding any substance.

Checkmate.

[justasportsfan]

this is where you see the difference between Hurkey and OP. Hurkey is NOT optimistic about the team just like OP, but Op is just a debbie downer.

Sorry to make this about you two. :D

[BertSquirtgum]

If you have to research them before you post OP, then you must not know much about the guys you want the Bills to sign. Taking way too long here.

[OpIv37]

Please list the players who you think the Bills should sign right NOW to make them a better team and keep their cap low enough to sign others that may be released.

lmao.

Tell me who is going to be released that is worth waiting around for. Go ahead. Pull out your magic 8 ball and do it.

[OpIv37]

It is not illogical to think Williams can play better than Wilson. He is younger, bigger & faster than Wilson. Wilson is OLD & SLOW, he made FEW plays last year, EASILY replaced.

It's not illogical to think that Wilson can be replaced.

It's illogical to think the replacement is a guy who has never played S in the NFL and sucks at the position he has played in the NFL. That's typical homer thinking: "he's on our team now so he must be better."

[Captain Obvious]

If you don't know the details of the issues,


And that is why OPIAN logic is sometimes flawed.. He thinks YPC is a useless stat in determining how good a RB is or whether or not they are improving(Spiller 2010 3.8YPC..Spiller 2011 5.2YPC) but he cant provide any statistical or subjective evidence to prove his point that Spiller did not improve at all in his 2nd season compared to his rookie season

[OpIv37]

And that is why OPIAN logic is sometimes flawed.. He thinks YPC is a useless stat in determining how good a RB is or whether or not they are improving(Spiller 2010 3.8YPC..Spiller 2011 5.2YPC) but he cant provide any statistical or subjective evidence to prove his point that Spiller did not improve at all in his 2nd season compared to his rookie season

I never said it was a useless stat. I said it wasn't the only way to evaluate a player. Don't put words in my mouth.

[BertSquirtgum]

lmao.

Tell me who is going to be released that is worth waiting around for. Go ahead. Pull out your magic 8 ball and do it.

You got nothing. Like I said. Checkmate.

[BillsFever21]

Travis Henry..Aaron Shobel.. Nate Clements..Terrence McGee..Kyle Williams.. Marshawn Lynch.. Andy Levitre... Eric Wood..David Nelson.. CJ Spiller these players all improved from there 1st year to 2nd year.. For you to say no Buffalo Bill has never gotten better in Year 2 and that it has yet to happen is just not true

Of course some players are going to get better in their 2nd year and so forth. The difference is the same people think every season that EVERY player on the roster that we need to rely on is going to be a better player and reliable starter. They only need one more year for all of that to happen.

I remember Terrell Troupe, Marcus Easley, Nelson and Jones(who now all of a sudden are worthless players since they are gone), Aaron Williams, McKelvin and the list keeps on growing of horrible players who were going to be better in year two...and then year three...and then year four.

That is the exact reason why the Bills have been bad and why the team is still bad going into THIS SEASON. We draft far more busts then good players and then when we do find one like Levitre we let him walk. Now that he's gone all of a sudden he wasn't really that good anyway. If they play for the Bills then they're good or have potential and when they no longer play for the Bills then they were never very good to begin with. It's the same thing whenever we bring in a new HC or coordinator.

I guarantee you most of these guys all said at one point that Nelson and Jones were good players and were going to be substantial players for a while. Just last year most of these guys were saying we had one of the best WR corps in the entire NFL. Now that was a good one and perfect example of being delusional.

I also guarantee you and remember all of these guys who said Barnett was going to be a great player when we signed him and that George Wilson was a good safety and even better then Whitner(who wasn't good to begin with) so we weren't going to miss him at all. Before that they said Whitner was a great safety for a few years. Just about all of the same people also said that Fitzpatrick was a franchise type QB and our answer for many years to come and defended his contract. Now that he continued to bomb out and isn't here anymore then all of a sudden he is the worse QB in the league and they knew it all along.

The list goes on and on of players being way overvalued while they were here and once they were gone the same people said they were one of the worst problems on the team even though just a year or two before that they were one of our strong points.

Their only prediction is that we're going to be better every season because we got rid of some bad players who were previously called good players, we have a new HC or coordinator, we get to make draft picks and we signed some free agents, they have one more year in the system or that our other draftees are going to be better this season.

You guys need to think for your damn self sometime and look at the team compared to the rest of the NFL instead of just automatically thinking we're good every season and then complaining when others have been right every season that we're not.

I'm usually right on the money or within a game of our actual win/loss record every season. Even when we were 4-1 a couple years ago I said we still wouldn't win more then 7 games at best. Took a ton of heat for that and too bad I wasn't proved wrong. We were a GREAT team though because we had some close wins early in the season. Then after we bombed out the same homers said last year we would put it together because of the good start to 2011 that we had and that we just needed the previous year as a learning curve on how to win and that Fitzpatrick had bad ribs and would turn it around. It's the same theme over and over again.

[PTI]

The name of thread should be changed to "Are you happy or unhappy with the Bills chances next near"?

[BillsFever21]

It's not illogical to think that Wilson can be replaced.

It's illogical to think the replacement is a guy who has never played S in the NFL and sucks at the position he has played in the NFL. That's typical homer thinking: "he's on our team now so he must be better."

I thought when Wilson took over for Whitner a couple of years ago that he was an upgrade and we wouldn't miss a beat? Even during the past couple years of playing most of the same people said he wasn't that bad. Of course now that he no longer plays for the Bills he was a useless POS and they knew it all along. Now naturally the next player will be great.

They can't look at the team or player on an individual basis. If they play for the Bills then they are good and if they no longer play for us then they're not. We're automatically going to be better for all the same reasons every season.

This season we will have a losing record but they don't want to admit it. Depending on how the draft plays out, players develop and most importantly how well Marrone does that could change come 2014 and so would my opinion. With them every season is the year and they are always wrong.

We have the worse team and talent evaluators that I have ever seen when it comes to predicting how well our team is yet they love to say that everybody who does realize it doesn't have a clue. You would think after 13 straight years of being wrong you would eventually realize that you're just not very damn good at predicting teams in the NFL. Them same ones say every season is the year the Patriots are going in the tank too and laugh about the players they bring in or release. If you suck at evaluating teams then just admit it. Either that or say the same thing every season and eventually you will be right.

[OpIv37]

You got nothing. Like I said. Checkmate.

Lmao.

Checkmate?

Here's your problem: you think me not giving you a name makes our roster better. It doesn't. I could give you 100 names or 0 names- we still suck.

But hey, you just wait until other teams cut their trash after the draft. I'm sure other teams' trash will make this team so much better. After all, that strategy has worked so brilliantly for us in the past.

[trapezeus]

here you go...what the bills could have done cheaper and smarter.

1. keep levitre. overpay him so that the run game has a chance. Get the savings when the cap goes up during his 5 year deal and when fitz' contract rolls off.
2. offer jones a deal. he was a good receiver who caught passes from a bad qb.
3. d nelson, offer hima small contract and 1-2 yr deal. explain that he can test free agency, but that hte injury is something we are concerned about but like his skill.

This way the offense is in tact and can learn together to get new scheme.

4, release fitz...they did.
5. start tjax. they might.
6. tjax will get us to 2-14 just as good as kolb. don't sign kolb. This allows us to pick a qb next year and focus on a deep draft of trench players during this draft. These LB's and OL will get up to Marrone's speed and scheme during a down year.


but the bills have now created holes in WR, TE, OL, have had holes in LB and coverage and only have 6 picks. and they may very well be taking a QB this draft, so that's 5 picks for 5-7 positions on offense and defense.

and other than DL, there isn't a ton of depth for injuries. Yeah, TJ graham could be great with an accurate qb, but jones was decent with a bad one. Graham doesn't look like an over the middle receiver. He looks like a long ball burner. He's a piece. he isn't going to be a go to guy.

so now what, does Feldspar and hurkey want a bottle of milk and told that everything will be ok? Because you've got one team in the division signing guys after a decent year with continuity in coaching and QB. We've got another team that just steals signals and cheats their way to victory and one team that blows, but that team put up 48 points with one of the worst starting QB's in the league. SOOOOOO, where is the upside.

Also, name me one company valued at $700MM-$1BN that has underperformed estimates for 13 years straight and their company is run by the same people. That's the bills. Russ brandon has been a senior person for a long time. he has been smithers. so whatever his title has been is irrelevant. he's been ralph's number 2 for a while. he's sold games to toronto, he's taken the GM roll himself. He's talked about bringing in a top level coach and GM and came in with gailey and nix. Nix can't even operate a conference call. whaley we are told has just been twiddling his thumbs for the last couple years and has had no part in blowing rounds 2-7. What a gig. Get paid and do nothing to improve your workplace.

And your solution that a williams will be a safety. in round 2 we selected him ahead of many better players and we are now trying to salvage him to be a decent safety? he's a lemon. he won't be anything. but at least he has the leodis precendent now so in two years he can reup for $20MM.

Get real. this team can't even get to the playoffs when other crappy teams have gotten in. If you are so confident of your what ifs and maybes, we should bet on it. I guarantee you the bills won't make the playoffs for 2013 and willing to put money down on it.

[BertSquirtgum]

here you go...what the bills could have done cheaper and smarter.

1. keep levitre. overpay him so that the run game has a chance. Get the savings when the cap goes up during his 5 year deal and when fitz' contract rolls off.
2. offer jones a deal. he was a good receiver who caught passes from a bad qb.
3. d nelson, offer hima small contract and 1-2 yr deal. explain that he can test free agency, but that hte injury is something we are concerned about but like his skill.

This way the offense is in tact and can learn together to get new scheme.

4, release fitz...they did.
5. start tjax. they might.
6. tjax will get us to 2-14 just as good as kolb. don't sign kolb. This allows us to pick a qb next year and focus on a deep draft of trench players during this draft. These LB's and OL will get up to Marrone's speed and scheme during a down year.


but the bills have now created holes in WR, TE, OL, have had holes in LB and coverage and only have 6 picks. and they may very well be taking a QB this draft, so that's 5 picks for 5-7 positions on offense and defense.

and other than DL, there isn't a ton of depth for injuries. Yeah, TJ graham could be great with an accurate qb, but jones was decent with a bad one. Graham doesn't look like an over the middle receiver. He looks like a long ball burner. He's a piece. he isn't going to be a go to guy.

so now what, does Feldspar and hurkey want a bottle of milk and told that everything will be ok? Because you've got one team in the division signing guys after a decent year with continuity in coaching and QB. We've got another team that just steals signals and cheats their way to victory and one team that blows, but that team put up 48 points with one of the worst starting QB's in the league. SOOOOOO, where is the upside.

Also, name me one company valued at $700MM-$1BN that has underperformed estimates for 13 years straight and their company is run by the same people. That's the bills. Russ brandon has been a senior person for a long time. he has been smithers. so whatever his title has been is irrelevant. he's been ralph's number 2 for a while. he's sold games to toronto, he's taken the GM roll himself. He's talked about bringing in a top level coach and GM and came in with gailey and nix. Nix can't even operate a conference call. whaley we are told has just been twiddling his thumbs for the last couple years and has had no part in blowing rounds 2-7. What a gig. Get paid and do nothing to improve your workplace.

And your solution that a williams will be a safety. in round 2 we selected him ahead of many better players and we are now trying to salvage him to be a decent safety? he's a lemon. he won't be anything. but at least he has the leodis precendent now so in two years he can reup for $20MM.

Get real. this team can't even get to the playoffs when other crappy teams have gotten in. If you are so confident of your what ifs and maybes, we should bet on it. I guarantee you the bills won't make the playoffs for 2013 and willing to put money down on it.

Get real? What kind of ******* wants the team to go 2-14? That's disgusting.

[gebobs]

LOSERS
All you seem to do is hurl childish insults and question the fandom of anyone who expresses the least bit of dissatisfaction with the team. It's sooooo old.

[OpIv37]

Careful, trap. You should wait for us to pick up all kinds of quality players after other teams make their post-draft cuts before making any predictions or bets. We should be able to assemble a SB-caliber once the other teams cut all their good players in favor of draf picks.

[BertSquirtgum]

All you seem to do is hurl childish insults and question the fandom of anyone who expresses the least bit of dissatisfaction with the team. It's sooooo old.

So is the negativity and the crying.

[OpIv37]

Get real? What kind of ******* wants the team to go 2-14? That's disgusting.

He didn't say he wanted it to happen.

But you don't seem capable of understanding that what any of us want is inconsequential to the reality of how bad this team is. Just because some of us are able to accept the reality doesn't mean we like it or want it to be that way.

[BertSquirtgum]

Careful, trap. You should wait for us to pick up all kinds of quality players after other teams make their post-draft cuts before making any predictions or bets. We should be able to assemble a SB-caliber once the other teams cut all their good players in favor of draf picks.

Yeah, trap actually made a real good post instead of posting the same crap over and over again. You should thank him for making your argument for you.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, trap actually made a real good post instead of posting the same crap over and over again. You should thank him for making your argument for you.

Lmao at the guy who posted "LOSERS" at least 10x in this thread alone accusing others of posting the same crap over and over.

[better days]

here you go...what the bills could have done cheaper and smarter.

1. keep levitre. overpay him so that the run game has a chance. Get the savings when the cap goes up during his 5 year deal and when fitz' contract rolls off.
2. offer jones a deal. he was a good receiver who caught passes from a bad qb.
3. d nelson, offer hima small contract and 1-2 yr deal. explain that he can test free agency, but that hte injury is something we are concerned about but like his skill.

This way the offense is in tact and can learn together to get new scheme.

4, release fitz...they did.
5. start tjax. they might.
6. tjax will get us to 2-14 just as good as kolb. don't sign kolb. This allows us to pick a qb next year and focus on a deep draft of trench players during this draft. These LB's and OL will get up to Marrone's speed and scheme during a down year.


but the bills have now created holes in WR, TE, OL, have had holes in LB and coverage and only have 6 picks. and they may very well be taking a QB this draft, so that's 5 picks for 5-7 positions on offense and defense.

and other than DL, there isn't a ton of depth for injuries. Yeah, TJ graham could be great with an accurate qb, but jones was decent with a bad one. Graham doesn't look like an over the middle receiver. He looks like a long ball burner. He's a piece. he isn't going to be a go to guy.

so now what, does Feldspar and hurkey want a bottle of milk and told that everything will be ok? Because you've got one team in the division signing guys after a decent year with continuity in coaching and QB. We've got another team that just steals signals and cheats their way to victory and one team that blows, but that team put up 48 points with one of the worst starting QB's in the league. SOOOOOO, where is the upside.

Also, name me one company valued at $700MM-$1BN that has underperformed estimates for 13 years straight and their company is run by the same people. That's the bills. Russ brandon has been a senior person for a long time. he has been smithers. so whatever his title has been is irrelevant. he's been ralph's number 2 for a while. he's sold games to toronto, he's taken the GM roll himself. He's talked about bringing in a top level coach and GM and came in with gailey and nix. Nix can't even operate a conference call. whaley we are told has just been twiddling his thumbs for the last couple years and has had no part in blowing rounds 2-7. What a gig. Get paid and do nothing to improve your workplace.

And your solution that a williams will be a safety. in round 2 we selected him ahead of many better players and we are now trying to salvage him to be a decent safety? he's a lemon. he won't be anything. but at least he has the leodis precendent now so in two years he can reup for $20MM.

Get real. this team can't even get to the playoffs when other crappy teams have gotten in. If you are so confident of your what ifs and maybes, we should bet on it. I guarantee you the bills won't make the playoffs for 2013 and willing to put money down on it.

You make some good points IF you expect the Bills to go 2-14. I expect no such thing myself. If Marrone can not get at least 6 WINS next year, he should be FIRED after the last game, before the playoffs start.

And Graham is not an over the middle receiver, but Stevie & Chandler are. Someone needs to stretch the field & TJ is the guy for that.

And you have no idea how well or bad Williams could play at safety. He has all the physical tools to do so & would not be the first player to benefit from a change of position. See George Wilson as an example of that.

[OpIv37]

It is not illogical to think Williams can play better than Wilson. He is younger, bigger & faster than Wilson. Wilson is OLD & SLOW, he made FEW plays last year, EASILY replaced.



You make some good points IF you expect the Bills to go 2-14. I expect no such thing myself. If Marrone can not get at least 6 WINS next year, he should be FIRED after the last game, before the playoffs start.

And Graham is not an over the middle receiver, but Stevie & Chandler are. Someone needs to stretch the field & TJ is the guy for that.

And you have no idea how well or bad Williams could play at safety. He has all the physical tools to do so & would not be the first player to benefit from a change of position. See George Wilson as an example of that.

So at first Wilson is "easily replaced" but now Wilson is an "example" of a player who benefited from a change of position.

This is exactly what BillsFever21 has been talking about. When you want to feel good about the team's chances next year, Wilson is trash and losing him doesn't hurt. But when you want to believe that Williams can make a change of position, suddenly Wilson is a success story.

[BertSquirtgum]

Lmao at the guy who posted "LOSERS" at least 10x in this thread alone accusing others of posting the same crap over and over.

Get used to it

[better days]

So at first Wilson is "easily replaced" but now Wilson is an "example" of a player who benefited from a change of position.

This is exactly what BillsFever21 has been talking about. When you want to feel good about the team's chances next year, Wilson is trash and losing him doesn't hurt. But when you want to believe that Williams can make a change of position, suddenly Wilson is a success story.


Wilson WAS a success story. His time has come & GONE. Like Barnett, He had a terrible year last year. Before that he & Barnett both played WELL. BOTH are NOW OLD. What is so hard to understand about that?

[OpIv37]

Wilson WAS a success story. His time has come & GONE. Like Barnett, He had a terrible year last year. Before that he & Barnett both played WELL. BOTH are NOW OLD. What is so hard to understand about that?

Yup- they were good when they were on the Bills, they're bad now that they're gone. Got it.

[better days]

Yup- they were good when they were on the Bills, they're bad now that they're gone. Got it.

NO, you don't got it. BOTH Barnett & Wilson were NOT good ON the Bills LAST year. That is the reason BOTH are NO LONGER on the Bills. But if the Bills had kept them, YOU would have COMPLAINED about the Bills keeping OLD TRASH.

[OpIv37]

NO, you don't got it. BOTH Barnett & Wilson were NOT good ON the Bills LAST year. That is the reason BOTH are NO LONGER on the Bills. But if the Bills had kept them, YOU would have COMPLAINED about the Bills keeping OLD TRASH.

What? First, I never said the Bills should have kept Wilson and Barnett- I said they should REPLACE them. Cutting them is only half the job. So of course I would have been upset if they kept them.

Second, Barnett was NEVER good as a Bill. That's where you destroy your credibility. I liked the signing when it happened but it never worked out on the field. It's another case of you liking the guy while he was a Bill and saying that he's old and slow now that he's gone.

[better days]

What? First, I never said the Bills should have kept Wilson and Barnett- I said they should REPLACE them. Cutting them is only half the job. So of course I would have been upset if they kept them.

Second, Barnett was NEVER good as a Bill. That's where you destroy your credibility. I liked the signing when it happened but it never worked out on the field. It's another case of you liking the guy while he was a Bill and saying that he's old and slow now that he's gone.

BS. Barnett played VERY GOOD the year before last. I don't know if he was injured or he just did not play well in that stupid system of Wannys, but his play fell off SUBSTANTIALLY LAST year.

And I said the Bills have ALREADY replaced Wilson with Searcy

And Barnett was replaced as well

As was Fitz.

So that is 3 of 6 starters ALREADY replaced & we have not had the draft yet.

[gebobs]

So is the negativity and the crying.
I suppose you think the weatherman is negative when he predicts rain in April.

[better days]

I suppose you think the weatherman is negative when he predicts rain in April.

Well, DUH. Weathermen are WRONG 50% of the time. He might as well have predicted sunshine, he would have been just as likely to be right.

[OpIv37]

BS. Barnett played VERY GOOD the year before last. I don't know if he was injured or he just did not play well in that stupid system of Wannys, but his play fell off SUBSTANTIALLY LAST year.

And I said the Bills have ALREADY replaced Wilson with Searcy

And Barnett was replaced as well

As was Fitz.

So that is 3 of 6 starters ALREADY replaced & we have not had the draft yet.

So, we replaced Wilson with a guy we already had? Give me a ****ing break.

And we replaced Fitz with Kolb? Again, give me a ****ing break.

[better days]

So, we replaced Wilson with a guy we already had? Give me a ****ing break.

And we replaced Fitz with Kolb? Again, give me a ****ing break.

Give me a F****** break BOTH those players will be on the field opening day & play at least as well as the guys they replaced.

[OpIv37]

Give me a F****** break BOTH those players will be on the field opening day & play at least as well as the guys they replaced.

So, Searcy is better than Wilson but he had to share time with him last year? Yes, Searcy will be on the field, just like he was LAST year. Cutting a guy and filling the role with his back up is NOT a replacement. That's homer thinking.

And if you think Kolb is better than Fitz..... well, he's probably slightly better but slightly better is far from good enough. That's the whole problem with the Kolb signing. We STILL need a QB.

[BertSquirtgum]

5 pages of OPs nonsense. Mods please delete this thread.

[gebobs]

Well, DUH. Weathermen are WRONG 50% of the time. He might as well have predicted sunshine, he would have been just as likely to be right.
*whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh*

[IlluminatusUIUC]

5 pages of OPs nonsense. Mods please delete this thread.

What the hell? You started this thread specifically to call out OpIvy and people who share his opinion, and then want the thread closed because they showed up?

Lordy.

[BertSquirtgum]

What the hell? You started this thread specifically to call out OpIvy and people who share his opinion, and then want the thread closed because they showed up?

Lordy.

Wrong, when did I mention OP at all in the original post? I made this thread to show everyone who disliked Kolb that he was actually signed and that they needed to get over it. Then we started getting all the loser comments when the thread was to be about the official signing of kevin kolb. It's always the same few that turn threads into loser ***** fests.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Wrong, when did I mention OP at all in the original post? I made this thread to show everyone who disliked Kolb that he was actually signed and that they needed to get over it. Op turned this thread into a me me me thread. Such a waste of time.


I personally like the signing. There was so much crying on here throughout the last 9 days over a guy who will be much better than Putzputrid.

Yeah, sure. Of course you weren't calling people out.

[BertSquirtgum]

This thread should be deleted soon. Such a waste of time.

[BertSquirtgum]

Yeah, sure. Of course you weren't calling people out.

but you said I specifically called OP out.

[OpIv37]

but you said I specifically called OP out.

You didn't call me out initially.

You made it about me when you didn't like what I had to say and responded by calling me a "loser" rather than addressing the point.

[BertSquirtgum]

You didn't call me out initially.

You made it about me when you didn't like what I had to say and responded by calling me a "loser" rather than addressing the point.

I stand by that.

[feldspar]

I suppose you think the weatherman is negative when he predicts rain in April.

Personally, I have no problem with the weatherman. His predictions are INFORMED, and he really only tells us ONE TIME that he predicts rain.

[gebobs]

I stand by that.
You stand by pettiness. OK. Way to elevate the forum.

[gebobs]

Personally, I have no problem with the weatherman. His predictions are INFORMED, and he really only tells us ONE TIME that he predicts rain.
Just one time? You must live in Arizona.

[coastal]

It's always the same few that turn threads into loser ***** fests.you, Joefosho and some other mouth breather I can't remember.

[feldspar]

Jesus, football is about competition.

TONS of players come into this league that need development...I dare to say that most of them do. You see TONS of guys step up in their 2nd or 3rd years in an NFL program after learning the ropes. You generally get a couple of few guys that are NFL ready when they are drafted (if you are lucky), and even they usually have a learning curve. Some people act like a guy is a perennial backup just because he has never started on a regular basis yet or has growing pains. Developing a guy is a process, and that takes time.

These things play in.

[feldspar]

Just one time? You must live in Arizona.

Hardee-friggin'-har.

You know what I mean.

[BertSquirtgum]

you, Joefosho and some other mouth breather I can't remember.

Wow, King of the ******s shows why he is the king of the ******s. I like it.

[gebobs]

Hardee-friggin'-har.

You know what I mean.
I do. I hope you understand what I meant too.

[OpIv37]

Jesus, football is about competition.

TONS of players come into this league that need development...I dare to say that most of them do. You see TONS of guys step up in their 2nd or 3rd years in an NFL program after learning the ropes. You generally get a couple of few guys that are NFL ready when they are drafted (if you are lucky), and even they usually have a learning curve. Some people act like a guy is a perennial backup just because he has never started on a regular basis yet or has growing pains. Developing a guy is a process, and that takes time.

These things play in.

and every year, someone cites "player development" as the reason why the team will improve from the year before. And every year, it fails to materialize.

And that's not saying that no players on the team ever develop or improve. It's saying that it never happens on a scale large enough for the team to improve as a whole.

[trapezeus]

You make some good points IF you expect the Bills to go 2-14. I expect no such thing myself. If Marrone can not get at least 6 WINS next year, he should be FIRED after the last game, before the playoffs start.

And Graham is not an over the middle receiver, but Stevie & Chandler are. Someone needs to stretch the field & TJ is the guy for that.

And you have no idea how well or bad Williams could play at safety. He has all the physical tools to do so & would not be the first player to benefit from a change of position. See George Wilson as an example of that.


1. Marrone gets 3 years like everyone else. he just had a team stripped down. to turn it around in 1 year is unrealistic and will put you right back to buffalo being a place where no one wants to coach.

2. chandler is coming off a major knee injury, late in the season. you need a WR and a TE to run the 10-15 yard pattern so that spiller and jackson are the dump off options. having a burner that is open but never gets thrown to accurately isn't really a great option. granted i have no idea how kolb and tjax are on the long ball, but i'm assuming they are throwing off their back foot based on the current line and the projection of who we are going to get.

3. williams has the physical tools to be a CB. The position we drafted him for. now we are going to teach him a new position and have him play better there than what he has experience on?

and i am totally willing to make a small wager that the bills are closer to a 2-14 team than a playoff team.

in some ways i'd prefer them to be 2-14 if they are building the interior of both their O and D. IF they have a coach who schematically is good, one year where they are picking very high will restock their roster with high quality players. and QB's and WR will benefit

If they elect to make this year a playoff year and look for WR and QB in this draft without having a line or a rushing LB corp, they are going to get destroyed per usual.

[OpIv37]

and every year, someone cites "player development" as the reason why the team will improve from the year before. And every year, it fails to materialize.

And that's not saying that no players on the team ever develop or improve. It's saying that it never happens on a scale large enough for the team to improve as a whole.

And one more thing on this: players on other teams develop too.

Somehow, we have to reduce the talent gap between us and other teams. We can't rely solely on the draft and player development because other teams have those too. At some point we have to go out and get better players.

[Joe Fo Sho]

you, Joefosho and some other mouth breather I can't remember.

I turn threads into a ***** fest? Example?

[Ginger Vitis]

and look for WR and QB in this draft without having a line or a rushing LB corp, they are going to get destroyed per usual.
This does not make any sense they need additions at all 4 positions you mentioned.Drafting a QB and a WR is not a bad thing by any means

[trapezeus]

Personally, I have no problem with the weatherman. His predictions are INFORMED, and he really only tells us ONE TIME that he predicts rain.

to be fair, the weatherman doesn't have a bunch of people soaked in their bathing suits scream, "no this time it's going to be sunny. i feel it." and then the weatherman doesn't go into the actual science of the weather and why it most likely is clear that rain is clearly in the forecast. and the weatherman doesn't have to be yelled at repeatedly when he's right that he somehow is responsible for the crappy weather.

[PTI]

I think the lowest number of wins is 6.

[gebobs]

I think the lowest number of wins is 6.
I'm going to go with zero.

[BillsFever21]

to be fair, the weatherman doesn't have a bunch of people soaked in their bathing suits scream, "no this time it's going to be sunny. i feel it." and then the weatherman doesn't go into the actual science of the weather and why it most likely is clear that rain is clearly in the forecast. and the weatherman doesn't have to be yelled at repeatedly when he's right that he somehow is responsible for the crappy weather.

And at least the weatherman has a 50/50 chance of predicting the correct forecast. Unlike what he stated they have had a 0% prediction rate over the past decade. At the same time they are mad at the ones who have a 75%-100% prediction rate over that same period of time.

[pmoon6]

What the hell? You started this thread specifically to call out OpIvy and people who share his opinion, and then want the thread closed because they showed up?

Lordy.In the future, please refer to him as Opie. The little red head kid on Andy Griffith...or Richie Cunningham.

[feldspar]

In the future, please refer to him as Opie. The little red head kid on Andy Griffith...or Richie Cunningham.

That's what I've been doing. Opie AND the weatherman can suck it.