"Rumor" Draft spoiler: Nassib is our pick in the 1st round

[Skooby]

We might trade back for an extra pick in the first round if we scare another team into a loss of a player and grab an extra second with a little gambling but the Bills need a player that knows the system & works now. Ralph is not long for this world and the team will do so much better with Nassib in a familiar system versus forcing other players into something they need to learn.


Nassib will be the starting QB come our first game, Kolb being a good back-up. Mark my words to this post, it's already over, it's been called already.

[EDS]

Unfortunately that sounds like something the Bills would do.

[SquishDaFish]

And you wonder why your posts end up in spam Skooby. Unreal

[OpIv37]

If we could somehow get Nassib in the 2nd, I'd be happy, but that doesn't seem likely.

Using the #8 on Nassib is just plain stupid though.

[Jaybird]

and the rumor comes from where???

[Skooby]

Why do I exactly need to post who calls me & tell you why this is the way it is? How about we can achieve a level of success with him now instead of waiting ? Can you expect Ralph to wait several years until every part comes together ? Maybe Spiller gets older & we don't have a way to get better now, think of that ?

Our owner waited longer than anyone for a chance, investing in a current program from front to back rings us something that works now. It's hard to force people to relearn the offense, outside of the knowledge that's already been provided. Your logic is based on future depth, the owner is here today & expects today's results.

[BertSquirtgum]

We might trade back for an extra pick in the first round if we scare another team into a loss of a player and grab an extra second with a little gambling but the Bills need a player that knows the system & works now. Ralph is not long for this world and the team will do so much better with Nassib in a familiar system versus forcing other players into something they need to learn.


Nassib will be the starting QB come our first game, Kolb being a good back-up. Mark my words to this post, it's already over, it's been called already.

Link? or did you pull this out of your arse?

[OpIv37]

Zero is a "level of success."

Just because Nassib played in Marrone's system doesn't mean he can come in and be successful immediately in the NFL. We have to play the Patriots and the Ravens, not Rutgers and Temple.

And what do you mean "our owner waited longer than anyone for a chance?" The reason this team sucks so bad is largely the owner's fault. It's been one bad decision after another with him.

[Lexwhat]

If we could somehow get Nassib in the 2nd, I'd be happy, but that doesn't seem likely.

Using the #8 on Nassib is just plain stupid though.

I am not for nor against drafting Nassib, but I'm curious as to why drafting him at #8 is "stupid" while drafting him in the 2nd round would make you "happy"?? If we spend a 2nd round pick on him, I assume you would be happy because you think he may turn out to be our franchise QB. In that case, who cares if we take him in the 1st or 2nd round?

If we don't draft a QB in the 1st round, we have exposed our hand, and everyone in the NFL world is gonna know that we'll be drafting a QB with our 2nd pick. We don't know what 31 other teams are going to do, or whether even one of them would trade up a few spots to grab him just before our pick in the 2nd round. In the long run, if Nassib turns out to be a great QB, no one will care that we spent a 1st rounder on him.

I am all for trading down, but it is not always that easy, as you know... If you are talking about from a "value" standpoint, I think QBs fall under a separate category. For example, it is not worth getting the "3rd best LT" when we can get the #1 OLB, even if LT is a need. That's the importance of value. But QB picks are the most unpredictable of all.

If a team thinks a QB is gonna be good, TAKE HIM. Period. I mean, the Redskins gave up draft picks out the ass for RGIII, and then went and drafted Kirk Cousins with their 3rd overall pick (a 4th rounder). You're from that area, you already know.

With all of RGIII's injuries, Cousins basically propelled them into the playoffs last year. They wouldn't have made it without him. It was a genius move to draft Cousins.

To be real, if we drafted 2 QBs this year, with both coming at or before the 4th round, I would not be upset.

[OpIv37]

I am not for nor against drafting Nassib, but I'm curious as to why drafting him at #8 is "stupid" while drafting him in the 2nd round would make you "happy"?? If we spend a 2nd round pick on him, I assume you would be happy because you think he may turn out to be our franchise QB. In that case, who cares if we take him in the 1st or 2nd round?

If we don't draft a QB in the 1st round, we have exposed our hand, and everyone in the NFL world is gonna know that we'll be drafting a QB with our 2nd pick. We don't know what 31 other teams are going to do, or whether even one of them would trade up a few spots to grab him just before our pick in the 2nd round. In the long run, if Nassib turns out to be a great QB, no one will care that we spent a 1st rounder on him.

I am all for trading down, but it is not always that easy, as you know... If you are talking about from a "value" standpoint, I think QBs fall under a separate category. For example, it is not worth getting the "3rd best LT" when we can get the #1 OLB, even if LT is a need. That's the importance of value. But QB picks are the most unpredictable of all.

If a team thinks a QB is gonna be good, TAKE HIM. Period. I mean, the Redskins gave up draft picks out the ass for RGIII, and then went and drafted Kirk Cousins with their 3rd overall pick (a 4th rounder). You're from that area, you already know.

With all of RGIII's injuries, Cousins basically propelled them into the playoffs last year. They wouldn't have made it without him. It was a genius move to draft Cousins.

To be real, if we drafted 2 QBs this year, with both coming at or before the 4th round, I would not be upset.

It's quite simple.

This team sucks. Our best chance to get better is the #8 overall draft pick. We absolutely need to take someone with that pick who makes the team significantly better. If we fail to do that, it's going to set this team back 2-3 years. And yes, I know there's a rookie cap and a bad first round draft pick doesn't hose the cap like it used to. It's not about the cap. It's about adding enough talent to win.

I'm not convinced that Nassib is going to be a successful NFL QB. But we're desperate for a QB. IMO he's worth the risk at 41. He's not worth the risk at 8. The opportunity cost to gamble on Nassib at 8 as opposed to taking a talented player is just too high. Add to that the fact that QB is notoriously the hardest position for judging whether college success will translate to NFL success, and the risk is just too high. We're not gambling house money. We're gambling our food and rent money for the next two months.

[OpIv37]

And I agree with you on trading down- that would be the ideal situation, especially with only 6 picks. But finding a partner for trading down in this draft is going to be very difficult.

[Lexwhat]

It's quite simple.

This team sucks. Our best chance to get better is the #8 overall draft pick. We absolutely need to take someone with that pick who makes the team significantly better. If we fail to do that, it's going to set this team back 2-3 years. And yes, I know there's a rookie cap and a bad first round draft pick doesn't hose the cap like it used to. It's not about the cap. It's about adding enough talent to win.

I'm not convinced that Nassib is going to be a successful NFL QB. But we're desperate for a QB. IMO he's worth the risk at 41. He's not worth the risk at 8. The opportunity cost to gamble on Nassib at 8 as opposed to taking a talented player is just too high. Add to that the fact that QB is notoriously the hardest position for judging whether college success will translate to NFL success, and the risk is just too high. We're not gambling house money. We're gambling our food and rent money for the next two months.

I know the team sucks -- and I realize that we should hit a "home run" with the 1st rounder. But a good draft depends more on getting 3-4 quality starters than hitting a home run with the 1st rounder and then missing on all the rest. IF the Bills think a QB is for real, and he's taken before our pick in the 2nd round, we will be stuck drafting another CB or Safety or whoever else Buddy Nix saw in his dreams the night before the Draft. We shouldn't wait for 32 picks to pass and hope a specific QB is still there.

Anyway, I think this discussion is all besides the point for 1 simple reason: Doug Marrone. He knows Nassib better that ANYONE in the entire NFL (including Buddy Nix, you, me, whoever). If Marrone wants to tie his coaching legacy to Nassib, he will most definitely 100% be drafted by the Bills with the 8th pick. If he doesn't think Nassib is that guy, I don't think we even draft him in the 2nd round!

From the moment Marrone was hired, I knew we would either take Nassib in the 1st or not at all. The Bills (obviously) have already made up their mind on him, a long time ago. IMHO, I think there are only 2 possibilities here:

(a) The Bills take a QB with the 8th pick, and they already know who it is going to be (more likely).
(b) The Bills find a trade partner, move back, pick up some extra picks, and draft their desired QB with this 1st rounder.

[Mr. Magoo]

Its easy give our 8th and 41st to the Rams for there 16th and 22nd. With the 16th take best WR/LB and at 22 take Nassib/Barkley.

[BertSquirtgum]

Nassib at #8 will make me puke.

[YardRat]

Geez, I hope not. And, MMD doesn't deserve all of the abuse he gets at times. His 'scoop' on Kolb is a helluva lot more viable than some others that have an inflated reputation for posting crap like 'Bills interested in Yadda Yadda'.

[swiper]

This thread is pure SPAM without any back-up.

[coastal]

Here's a rumor that's fact...

2-14.

[TacklingDummy]

I am not for nor against drafting Nassib, but I'm curious as to why drafting him at #8 is "stupid" while drafting him in the 2nd round would make you "happy"?? If we spend a 2nd round pick on him, I assume you would be happy because you think he may turn out to be our franchise QB. In that case, who cares if we take him in the 1st or 2nd round?





Drafting him in the 1st round is only stupid if he turns out to be like Mark Sanchez.

If he turns out to be like Tom Brady then the 7 teams picking ahead of us were stupid.

[OpIv37]

I know the team sucks -- and I realize that we should hit a "home run" with the 1st rounder. But a good draft depends more on getting 3-4 quality starters than hitting a home run with the 1st rounder and then missing on all the rest. IF the Bills think a QB is for real, and he's taken before our pick in the 2nd round, we will be stuck drafting another CB or Safety or whoever else Buddy Nix saw in his dreams the night before the Draft. We shouldn't wait for 32 picks to pass and hope a specific QB is still there.

Anyway, I think this discussion is all besides the point for 1 simple reason: Doug Marrone. He knows Nassib better that ANYONE in the entire NFL (including Buddy Nix, you, me, whoever). If Marrone wants to tie his coaching legacy to Nassib, he will most definitely 100% be drafted by the Bills with the 8th pick. If he doesn't think Nassib is that guy, I don't think we even draft him in the 2nd round!

From the moment Marrone was hired, I knew we would either take Nassib in the 1st or not at all. The Bills (obviously) have already made up their mind on him, a long time ago. IMHO, I think there are only 2 possibilities here:

(a) The Bills take a QB with the 8th pick, and they already know who it is going to be (more likely).
(b) The Bills find a trade partner, move back, pick up some extra picks, and draft their desired QB with this 1st rounder.

I think your logic is a bit flawed. Yes, a good draft involves finding 3-4 players and not just one big splash with the first rounder. But it's NEVER a good draft if you miss on your first rounder. The Bills have proven this several times. I understand that if we don't take a QB at 8, we risk not getting one at all, but I've said it before and I'll say it again: our need for a QB doesn't make the right one available. If there was ever a draft to miss out on a QB, it's this one.

[Historian]

It's quite simple.

This team sucks. Our best chance to get better is the #8 overall draft pick. We absolutely need to take someone with that pick who makes the team significantly better. If we fail to do that, it's going to set this team back 2-3 years. And yes, I know there's a rookie cap and a bad first round draft pick doesn't hose the cap like it used to. It's not about the cap. It's about adding enough talent to win.

I'm not convinced that Nassib is going to be a successful NFL QB. But we're desperate for a QB. IMO he's worth the risk at 41. He's not worth the risk at 8. The opportunity cost to gamble on Nassib at 8 as opposed to taking a talented player is just too high. Add to that the fact that QB is notoriously the hardest position for judging whether college success will translate to NFL success, and the risk is just too high. We're not gambling house money. We're gambling our food and rent money for the next two months.

All good points, OP.

But I still think that you take him at 8. I think you make a statement with the pick, especially now that we have Kolb to take the initial beatings.

[OpIv37]

Nassib at #8 will make me puke.

well how do you like that? We finally agree on something.

[The King]

Nassib will be the starting QB come our first game, Kolb being a good back-up. Mark my words to this post, it's already over, it's been called already.

This isnt a rumor, this is hypothetical situation #3.

Since you're so sure Mitch would you be willing to stake your username on it?

[Skooby]

This isnt a rumor, this is hypothetical situation #3.

Since you're so sure Mitch would you be willing to stake your username on it?

It's a rumor, I heard it from an outside source. I believe none of what I hear & half of what I see. Same source Kolb me was coming to town a few Thursday's ago. I posted it & you moved it to spam based on not hearing it from a "reliable" source at the time, 2 days later you heard the news from Schef. I won't be right all the time & things do change but Nassib is the most likely draft QB to make us a winner this season, his learning curve is nil. It's like getting a 4 year starter's experience, which has some logic to it. Don't shoot the messenger or throw me into a pit (like the 300 movie guy).

[THATHURMANATOR]

If we could somehow get Nassib in the 2nd, I'd be happy, but that doesn't seem likely.

Using the #8 on Nassib is just plain stupid though.

If they have him ranked as their best QB prospect and feel Nassib can be a franchise QB for this team why would picking him at 8 be stupid? Especially when there is absolutely no guarantee they would get him in round two or even by trading back into the first round.

What is stupid is continuing to not address the most important position on the team going on decades.

I am sick of hear the "this will set the team back years BS comment". Set us back to where???? We are already ****. We already STINK. Why not try to get a FREAKING QB ALREADY????

[Historian]

That's exactly why I think they're drafting him with their first pick, be it 8...15...22....whatever.

marrone's been grooming him for years.

[justasportsfan]

If they think Nassib is their guy, I don't care if they reach. Grab him. Don't want another situation where they end up settling like they did with JP instead of grabbing Ben Roth.

[EDS]

If they have him ranked as their best QB prospect and feel Nassib can be a franchise QB for this team why would picking him at 8 be stupid? Especially when there is absolutely no guarantee they would get him in round two or even by trading back into the first round.

What is stupid is continuing to not address the most important position on the team going on decades.

I am sick of hear the "this will set the team back years BS comment". Set us back to where???? We are already ****. We already STINK. Why not try to get a FREAKING QB ALREADY????

I generally agree with your sentiment (i.e., got to get a franchise QB), but do not agree that Nassib is the guy.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I generally agree with your sentiment (i.e., got to get a franchise QB), but do not agree that Nassib is the guy.

Well I can't argue with your opinion on the matter.

I am mixed. I am no expert so I can only go on what so called experts say, and what I have watched on the TV. He seems to me to have leadership, Strong arm, Ability to play in Buffalo weather down.

[The King]

I think taking Nassib is too risky for Marrone. It's a no-win for him. If he selects him and sits him, everyone is going to go nuts... why did we take a guy at 8 who can't contribute... if he drafts him and starts him he's going to struggle and he's always going to be Marrone's guy so the blame with fall on him. It's very rare a coach keeps that college connection and this is exactly why.

[K-Gun]

If we take Nassib at 8 does the #12 jersey come out of retirement? Think of the PR that would be generated having Jimbo crown Nassib as the heir apparent during some cheesy preseason ceremony. I bet Brandon's already thought of this, and is working on getting Jimbo **** faced one night before getting him to sign the contract.

[Joe Fo Sho]

If they think Nassib is their guy, I don't care if they reach. Grab him. Don't want another situation where they end up settling like they did with JP instead of grabbing Ben Roth.

When did we have a chance to grab Roethlisberger?

[Skooby]

When did we have a chance to grab Roethlisberger?

Quiet, he's on a roll here.

[Pinkerton Security]

My source has confirmed, that this is indeed a rumor, and has no credence whatsoever. Mitch - was this rumor brought up in a convo between you and drunk friends? Congrats on being an "insider"!

[OpIv37]

If they have him ranked as their best QB prospect and feel Nassib can be a franchise QB for this team why would picking him at 8 be stupid? Especially when there is absolutely no guarantee they would get him in round two or even by trading back into the first round.

What is stupid is continuing to not address the most important position on the team going on decades.

I am sick of hear the "this will set the team back years BS comment". Set us back to where???? We are already ****. We already STINK. Why not try to get a FREAKING QB ALREADY????
Trying and failing accomplishes nothing. Simply picking a guy at 8 doesn't make him an NFL starter.

It sets us back in the sense that it keeps us from moving forward. This team has too many holes to desperately pick a QB at 8 and hope it works out because Russell Wilson was a 2nd round pick who started as a rookie. There are far less risky ways to use the pick that are more likely to make the team better.

I don't know why some of you can't comprehend this simple fact: our need for a franchise QB doesn't automatically make one available.

[OpIv37]

Nassib will be the starting QB come our first game, Kolb being a good back-up. Mark my words to this post, it's already over, it's been called already.

I'm not going to react to this too much since it's completely unconfirmed. But if this part is true, we are officially the dumbest team in the history of the NFL. Naming a starter that a) we don't even know if we will get to draft and b) we have never seen on an NFL practice field, let alone a game is just plain stupid on an epic scale. And, if he's not ready, it's a good way to shell-shock a rookie like we did to Edwards and Losman.

If we take Nassib or any other QB, there has to be a camp competition between him and Kolb.

[Historian]

My source has confirmed, that this is indeed a rumor, and has no credence whatsoever. Mitch - was this rumor brought up in a convo between you and drunk friends? Congrats on being an "insider"!

You guys can laugh it up all you want....but I still want to know how Skooby got a field pass to take pictures with the team down in Miami a few years back?

:scratch:

[Skooby]

I'm not going to react to this too much since it's completely unconfirmed. But if this part is true, we are officially the dumbest team in the history of the NFL. Naming a starter that a) we don't even know if we will get to draft and b) we have never seen on an NFL practice field, let alone a game is just plain stupid on an epic scale. And, if he's not ready, it's a good way to shell-shock a rookie like we did to Edwards and Losman.

If we take Nassib or any other QB, there has to be a camp competition between him and Kolb.

Who's more likely to understand the entire system day 1 ?? Well there you go.

[Extremebillsfan247]

If they think Nassib is their guy, I don't care if they reach. Grab him. Don't want another situation where they end up settling like they did with JP instead of grabbing Ben Roth.

I tend to agree. There's nothing worse than waiting to draft your guy because you think he will make it to your next pick just to watch another team draft him. I'll bet that mistake is quite common with the NFL draft. If they feel that confident about him, they need to get him whether he's a picture perfect looking first rounder or not. But that's my opinion.

[YardRat]

That's exactly why I think they're drafting him with their first pick, be it 8...15...22....whatever.

marrone's been grooming him for years.

IMO it won't be at 8. Those who continually want the team to trade down may actually get their wish this year. Drop back into the late teens/early 20's, pick up an extra couple of picks, and grab Nassib before the late-first early-second run on QB's hits the fan.

[THATHURMANATOR]

When did we have a chance to grab Roethlisberger?

the Year Ben came out the Steelers took him 1 pick before us.

I still remember watching that at my buddies to this day. I badly wanted Big Ben.

I was distraught when we just missed on him. I was even more angered when they traded back up for JP.

[EDS]

Simple question: If the Bills have any coach other than Marrone is Nassib a viable option at 8?

If the answer is no, then the idea of picking Nassib at 8 just because of his familiarity with the system is a flawed idea, in my opinion.

[Joe Fo Sho]

the Year Ben came out the Steelers took him 1 pick before us.

I still remember watching that at my buddies to this day. I badly wanted Big Ben.

I was distraught when we just missed on him. I was even more angered when they traded back up for JP.

Right, we didn't have a chance at him. I guess we could've traded up...but then we can say we missed out on any good pick that was taken before us. Plus, it always takes 2 to tango, maybe we did try to trade up?

[TacklingDummy]

With the Bills luck they won't draft Nassib and the Jets will.

For the next 12+ years the decision will haunt the Bills when Nassib turns out to be great.

[Historian]

Simple question: If the Bills have any coach other than Marrone is Nassib a viable option at 8?

If the answer is no, then the idea of picking Nassib at 8 just because of his familiarity with the system is a flawed idea, in my opinion.

Maybe...maybe not.

There are collossal egos at play here.

And if I had to point to one main reason why the 'bad' team are always 'bad' and the 'good' teams are always 'good', I would say it's ego.

I mean...look at Gregg Williams.

JMO.

[mjt328]

Mark my words, Nassib will be a worse NFL QB by going to the same team as his college head coach and OC.

Consider this.

Everything that Marrone and Hackett know about football, they have already taught him!! While the other rookie quarterbacks are discovering new formations, plays and packages from veteran coaches - Nassib will have already hit his learning ceiling with this group. If Nassib has mechanic problems that Marrone/Hackett never picked up on, they will never get corrected. His entire knowledge of offense, defense and basically the entire game of football will basically be confined to what he picked up at Syracuse University - from two guys with little to no experience at the pro level.


The assumption by many Bills fans is that Nassib will start quicker and have less of a learning curve, because he doesn't have the pressure of learning a new offense. But the thing is, many players NEED that pressure in order to push themselves to become better players. He may start quicker, but he will also hit his ceiling quicker.

[Novacane]

and the rumor comes from where???


His sisters friend knows a guy who has a friend who knows a guy who knows the guy who cleans Buddy Nix's bathroom.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Mark my words, Nassib will be a worse NFL QB by going to the same team as his college head coach and OC.

Consider this.

Everything that Marrone and Hackett know about football, they have already taught him!! While the other rookie quarterbacks are discovering new formations, plays and packages from veteran coaches - Nassib will have already hit his learning ceiling with this group. If Nassib has mechanic problems that Marrone/Hackett never picked up on, they will never get corrected. His entire knowledge of offense, defense and basically the entire game of football will basically be confined to what he picked up at Syracuse University - from two guys with little to no experience at the pro level.


The assumption by many Bills fans is that Nassib will start quicker and have less of a learning curve, because he doesn't have the pressure of learning a new offense. But the thing is, many players NEED that pressure in order to push themselves to become better players. He may start quicker, but he will also hit his ceiling quicker.

I don't agree with this at all.

How does Marrone have little to no NFL experience again???

[Skooby]

Mark my words, Nassib will be a worse NFL QB by going to the same team as his college head coach and OC.

Consider this.

Everything that Marrone and Hackett know about football, they have already taught him!! While the other rookie quarterbacks are discovering new formations, plays and packages from veteran coaches - Nassib will have already hit his learning ceiling with this group. If Nassib has mechanic problems that Marrone/Hackett never picked up on, they will never get corrected. His entire knowledge of offense, defense and basically the entire game of football will basically be confined to what he picked up at Syracuse University - from two guys with little to no experience at the pro level.


The assumption by many Bills fans is that Nassib will start quicker and have less of a learning curve, because he doesn't have the pressure of learning a new offense. But the thing is, many players NEED that pressure in order to push themselves to become better players. He may start quicker, but he will also hit his ceiling quicker.

A hugely more talented surrounding cast wouldn't help at all, with it being obvious that college players are the end of the line for football talent.

[justasportsfan]

Simple question: If the Bills have any coach other than Marrone is Nassib a viable option at 8?

If the answer is no, then the idea of picking Nassib at 8 just because of his familiarity with the system is a flawed idea, in my opinion.


It's not just about the familiarity in the system, it's about Marrone knowing Nassib like the back of his hand. He knows NAssib in and out. Not a lot of coaches have that kind of first hand insight. Marrone has been around Drew Brees . If he thinks Nassib can be as good, then we go for it.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It's not just about the familiarity in the system, it's about Marrone knowing Nassib like the back of his hand. He knows NAssib in and out. Not a lot of coaches have that kind of first hand insight. Marrone has been around Drew Brees . If he thinks Nassib can be as good, then we go for it.

What if he thinks he can only be as good as...Trent Dilfer? Or someone like that? An average starter, but not someone who you rely on to win a championship. Do you still take him at 8?

[justasportsfan]

What if he thinks he can only be as good as...Trent Dilfer? Or someone like that? An average starter, but not someone who you rely on to win a championship. Do you still take him at 8?

Hell no! They already signed Kolb who could to a Dilferish job .

I doubt Marrone is stupid enough to draft a qb who's ceiling is nothing more than a ball manager at 8.Then again, we don't know what Marrone thinks about Nassib. Only time will tell.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Plus do you really think a rookie head coach looking to make a good first impression would really be willing to endorse a guy that he didnt' think he could win with?

Wouldn't happen. What ever QB we take we will at least know is the guy the team thinks they could best win with.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What if he thinks he can only be as good as...Trent Dilfer? Or someone like that? An average starter, but not someone who you rely on to win a championship. Do you still take him at 8?

Think about this question for a second.

If Marrone's estimate is that Nassib = Dilfer, why on earth would he endorse Nix and company drafting him?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Think about this question for a second.

If Marrone's estimate is that Nassib = Dilfer, why on earth would he endorse Nix and company drafting him?

Probably for the same reason people want to draft Nassib at 8. Which is a reason I can't figure out either.

[justasportsfan]

skoob, is this where you got your sources from?

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Draftniks-keep-linking-Nassib-to-Bills/c7c0d505-bd2d-44b9-910d-cc7db608fe8b

[OpIv37]

Who's more likely to understand the entire system day 1 ?? Well there you go.

Yeah well Syracuse's 3rd string C is more likely to understand the system than Wood. By that logic, let's just pick him up as a UDFA and name him the starter over Wood.

[SpikedLemonade]

Simple question: If the Bills have any coach other than Marrone is Nassib a viable option at 8?

If the answer is no, then the idea of picking Nassib at 8 just because of his familiarity with the system is a flawed idea, in my opinion.

I agree.

The Brandon and Marrone Syracuse connection seemed too lazy for me to start with and to now add Nassib is just plain stupid.

On the other hand, if it all does not work, Russ Brandon needs to go with Marrone.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Probably for the same reason people want to draft Nassib at 8. Which is a reason I can't figure out either.

Doesn't sound like you are thinking.

[Bill Cody]

With the Bills luck they won't draft Nassib and the Jets will.

For the next 12+ years the decision will haunt the Bills when Nassib turns out to be great.

So we have to reach because the Jets might reach? That kind of thinking is why the Bills have been doormats for over a decade

[justasportsfan]

Probably for the same reason people want to draft Nassib at 8. Which is a reason I can't figure out either.

If people want him due to familiarity with the system ONLY thats not right. There has to be a high ceiling as well.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah well Syracuse's 3rd string C is more likely to understand the system than Wood. By that logic, let's just pick him up as a UDFA and name him the starter over Wood.

Op why are you so argumentative all the time?

Wouldn't it be fair to say that the QB position has BY FAR the most to learn and understand? A position that takes most years to fully master the offense? With that said wouldn't this scenario where Nassib has 4 years of knowledge of said system carry more weight than you are giving it credit?

[OpIv37]

Op why are you so argumentative all the time?

Wouldn't it be fair to say that the QB position has BY FAR the most to learn and understand? A position that takes most years to fully master the offense? With that said wouldn't this scenario where Nassib has 4 years of knowledge of said system carry more weight than you are giving it credit?

Nassib also has zero time adjusting to the speed and the nuances of the NFL. ZERO. Lots of people have knowledge of a system. That doesn't make them capable starters in said system.

Does knowledge of the system help? Sure. But being in the same system doesn't automatically make him a Day 1 starter as MMD is claiming. In recent years, there have been more and more Day 1 starters at QB, but it's still uncommon. It takes a QB with the right skill set on a team with the right talent around him.

If we do draft Nassib and he wins a QB competition over Kolb, at least he will have proven that he can outplay a QB with some NFL experience. As of this minute, he's proven nothing in the NFL. Knowledge of the system is not enough to name a guy we don't even have yet as the starter.

[Bangarang]

If we do draft Nassib and he wins a QB competition over Kolb, at least he will have proven that he can outplay a QB with some NFL experience. As of this minute, he's proven nothing in the NFL. Knowledge of the system is not enough to name a guy we don't even have yet as the starter.

Breaking news: Ryan Nassib hasn't proven anything in the NFL.

Coincidentally, he's yet to even start his NFL career.

This level of thinking is too advanced for me.

[Skooby]

Nassib also has zero time adjusting to the speed and the nuances of the NFL. ZERO. Lots of people have knowledge of a system. That doesn't make them capable starters in said system.

Does knowledge of the system help? Sure. But being in the same system doesn't automatically make him a Day 1 starter as MMD is claiming. In recent years, there have been more and more Day 1 starters at QB, but it's still uncommon. It takes a QB with the right skill set on a team with the right talent around him.

If we do draft Nassib and he wins a QB competition over Kolb, at least he will have proven that he can outplay a QB with some NFL experience. As of this minute, he's proven nothing in the NFL. Knowledge of the system is not enough to name a guy we don't even have yet as the starter.

There is so many things wrong here, where do I start. Hmmm..:

1.) Any player just drafted has 0 (zero) NFL experience & hasn't had a chance to prove anything.

2.) If we draft Nassib, the coaches would obviously feel the he has the right set of skills for the system. Debating that is impossible at this point.

3.) Knowledge of a system is one thing, experience in the system is the bigger help. College level play is not NFL, we all get that but if you know where everyone is supposed to be, it helps quite a bit.

4.) QB is the hardest position to learn in the NFL. Every other player has limited things they need to do & the QB has to know & assess everything that's happening in a quick fashion, Nassib is 4 years ahead of all our starting QB's in playing in this system.




Wouldn't it be fair to say that the QB position has BY FAR the most to learn and understand? A position that takes most years to fully master the offense? With that said wouldn't this scenario where Nassib has 4 years of knowledge of said system carry more weight than you are giving it credit?

It carries huge weight.

[OpIv37]

There is so many things wrong here, where do I start. Hmmm..:

1.) Any player just drafted has 0 (zero) NFL experience & hasn't had a chance to prove anything.

2.) If we draft Nassib, the coaches would obviously feel the he has the right set of skills for the system. Debating that is impossible at this point.

3.) Knowledge of a system is one thing, experience in the system is the bigger help. College level play is not NFL, we all get that but if you know where everyone is supposed to be, it helps quite a bit.

4.) QB is the hardest position to learn in the NFL. Every other player has limited things they need to do & the QB has to know & assess everything that's happening in a quick fashion, Nassib is 4 years ahead of all our starting QB's in playing in this system.

1) Yes, no one is debating that all draft picks have zero NFL experience. The difference is that you claimed Nassib has been named the starter. No other draft pick with zero NFL experience has already been named a starter.

2) Yes, if they draft him they BELIEVE he has the skill set. That's different than actually SEEING him demonstrate that skill set on the field. The coaches would be stupid to name a starter based on beliefs rather than based on what they actually see.

3) Yes, experience helps, but it STILL doesn't make him a day 1 NFL starter. College experience, not NFL experience.

4) Knowing the system gives Nassib an advantage over other QB's. 4 years of knowledge in the system doesn't give him any advantage as far as adjusting to the speed of the game or assessing what's happening. He may have played in the system before. He hasn't seen how an NFL D responds to that system.

I'm not arguing that knowing the system is an advantage for Nassib over any other rookie. It is. But to think that means he should be the starter without even a camp competition? That's absolutely ridiculous. Make him prove that he's ready, just like any other player.

[Lexwhat]

I think your logic is a bit flawed. Yes, a good draft involves finding 3-4 players and not just one big splash with the first rounder. But it's NEVER a good draft if you miss on your first rounder. The Bills have proven this several times. I understand that if we don't take a QB at 8, we risk not getting one at all, but I've said it before and I'll say it again: our need for a QB doesn't make the right one available. If there was ever a draft to miss out on a QB, it's this one.

I think your logic is okay, but your conclusion "if there ever was a draft to miss out on a QB, it's this one" makes no sense. Consider this:

I think the Media consensus is that no *particular* QB sticks out above the rest in this draft class. Does that mean the same thing as "none of them are going to be good"?
No, it doesn't.

Let's take the 2011 NFL draft for example... I like Mayock and all, but this is the same guy who was on Blaine Gabbert's jock 2 years ago and said he would be the best QB in the class. Well, he turned out to be the WORST QB of the first six taken (Cam Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Andy Dalton, and Kaepernick). Half the world thought Cam Newton was a diva and was gonna flame out. No one in the Media even paid attention to Kaepernick... Looks like Kaepernick and Newton will likely be the best ones from that class. QBs in every single draft are the toughest to evaluate.

Again, I am not for nor against any particular QB in this draft class. I don't pretend to be a talent evaluator, and don't claim to watch "game film" by opening up a 10 minute YouTube clip of someone.

Are you a talent evaluator, or are you like me in that you just read a few articles online and get a general idea of what other people think?

My trust in the Bills organization is a separate issue, but let's not change the argument and start talking about how they're gonna mess up the pick anyway. Then we are going in circles with our argument... This is Doug Marrone's chance to shine and the QB that he "wants" in this draft will make or break his time with the Bills. I am willing to give Marrone a chance since he (along with e.g. Chip Kelly) have the most in-depth knowledge of all the QBs coming out this year.

[Ginger Vitis]

In recent years, there have been more and more Day 1 starters at QB, but it's still uncommon.


WTF? you are saying there are more Day 1 starters at QB but it is uncommon that doesnt make any sense

[Bangarang]

WTF? you are saying there are more Day 1 starters at QB but it is uncommon that doesnt make any sense

Apparently, the more times things happen, the more uncommon it becomes.

[Oaf]

It's quite simple.

This team sucks. Our best chance to get better is the #8 overall draft pick. We absolutely need to take someone with that pick who makes the team significantly better. If we fail to do that, it's going to set this team back 2-3 years. And yes, I know there's a rookie cap and a bad first round draft pick doesn't hose the cap like it used to. It's not about the cap. It's about adding enough talent to win.

I'm not convinced that Nassib is going to be a successful NFL QB. But we're desperate for a QB. IMO he's worth the risk at 41. He's not worth the risk at 8. The opportunity cost to gamble on Nassib at 8 as opposed to taking a talented player is just too high. Add to that the fact that QB is notoriously the hardest position for judging whether college success will translate to NFL success, and the risk is just too high. We're not gambling house money. We're gambling our food and rent money for the next two months.

So by your line of reasoning, if BFO has a different opinion on Nassib than you, which may or may not be possible, namely that he is very talented and probably will be a success (which may or may not be right), then taking him at 8 is justified. Lower the "opportunity cost" and there's no problem taking him.

[Skooby]

No other draft pick with zero NFL experience has already been named a starter.


How about Luck / RG III ?? Was there any legitimate chance they might not start last season ??

[justasportsfan]

This is Doug Marrone's chance to shine and the QB that he "wants" in this draft will make or break his time with the Bills. I am willing to give Marrone a chance since he (along with e.g. Chip Kelly) have the most in-depth knowledge of all the QBs coming out this year.

Meh. Marrone has already busted because Russ is still on the team. If you haven't paid any attention, Marrone is responsible for the last 13 years.

[Skooby]

I think your logic is okay, but your conclusion "if there ever was a draft to miss out on a QB, it's this one" makes no sense. Consider this:

I think the Media consensus is that no *particular* QB sticks out above the rest in this draft class. Does that mean the same thing as "none of them are going to be good"?
No, it doesn't.

Let's take the 2011 NFL draft for example... I like Mayock and all, but this is the same guy who was on Blaine Gabbert's jock 2 years ago and said he would be the best QB in the class. Well, he turned out to be the WORST QB of the first six taken (Cam Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Andy Dalton, and Kaepernick). Half the world thought Cam Newton was a diva and was gonna flame out. No one in the Media even paid attention to Kaepernick... Looks like Kaepernick and Newton will likely be the best ones from that class. QBs in every single draft are the toughest to evaluate.

Again, I am not for nor against any particular QB in this draft class. I don't pretend to be a talent evaluator, and don't claim to watch "game film" by opening up a 10 minute YouTube clip of someone.

Are you a talent evaluator, or are you like me in that you just read a few articles online and get a general idea of what other people think?

My trust in the Bills organization is a separate issue, but let's not change the argument and start talking about how they're gonna mess up the pick anyway. Then we are going in circles with our argument... This is Doug Marrone's chance to shine and the QB that he "wants" in this draft will make or break his time with the Bills. I am willing to give Marrone a chance since he (along with e.g. Chip Kelly) have the most in-depth knowledge of all the QBs coming out this year.

I'm a great parking lot QB, I get even better as I down more booze.

[fluteflakes]

And I agree with you on trading down- that would be the ideal situation, especially with only 6 picks. But finding a partner for trading down in this draft is going to be very difficult.

Someone will want Lane Johnson, and either the Fish or the Chargers will jump in front to beat the other. We can court both and only slide back a few slots and hopefully pick up 2-3 extra picks.

[Captain Obvious]

How about Luck / RG III ?? Was there any legitimate chance they might not start last season ??

Dont stop at Andrew Luck and RGIII you can very easily come up with a few more names.

[Skooby]

Someone will want Lane Johnson, and either the Fish or the Chargers will jump in front to beat the other. We can court both and only slide back a few slots and hopefully pick up 2-3 extra picks.

That would be a great scenario.

[Skooby]

I could but :deadhorse:deadhorse
Dont stop at Andrew Luck and RGIII you can very easily come up with a few more names.

[fluteflakes]

That would be a great scenario.

It's fairly realistic. All we need to do is court the Chargers, heavily, to jump the Fish and we could pick up #11, a 2nd, and hopefully 1-2 day 3 picks. And hell, even if we do that and slide back to #10-#11, who would the Jets take? Surely not someone we value with the pick, most likely they'll go PR and take Barkevious Mingo. That STILL allows us to get the prospect we would have taken at #8 more than likely.

[OpIv37]

WTF? you are saying there are more Day 1 starters at QB but it is uncommon that doesnt make any sense

I said there are more than there used to be but they are still uncommon.

Let's say it used to be that 1 out of 10 QB's is a day 1 starter.

Now, 3 out of 10 QB's are day 1 starters. The number of day one starters tripled- hence, more than there used to be. However, 7 out of 10 QB's are STILL not day one starters, so day 1 starters are still uncommon.

Get it?


And I have no idea if those 1 out of 10 and 3 out of 10 numbers are accurate. They're just random numbers I picked to make the point.

[OpIv37]

How about Luck / RG III ?? Was there any legitimate chance they might not start last season ??

were they named starters BEFORE the draft? Did their coaches name them starters BEFORE seeing them in practice?

Realistically, everyone knew they would be the starters, but the coaches still didn't say that until AFTER they had a chance to see them on the field with other NFL players.

[Skooby]

were they named starters BEFORE the draft? Did their coaches name them starters BEFORE seeing them in practice?

Realistically, everyone knew they would be the starters, but the coaches still didn't say that until AFTER they had a chance to see them on the field with other NFL players.

Barring injury, they were the starter instantly after getting drafted. How often does a QB go #1 / #2 pick in the draft & not start ?

[OpIv37]

Barring injury, they were the starter instantly after getting drafted. How often does a QB go #1 / #2 pick in the draft & not start ?

a lot of QB's have been picked high and didn't start right away.

[Skooby]

a lot of QB's have been picked high and didn't start right away.

How about picked #1 or #2 ? When were they they not the starter immediately barring injury if picked that high ??

[OpIv37]

Barring injury, they were the starter instantly after getting drafted. How often does a QB go #1 / #2 pick in the draft & not start ?

oh, and more importantly, it depends on the specific player and the talent of the team he's on. You can't just say "well because Luck and RGIII were drafted high and started from day 1, then Nassib can be drafted high and start from day 1."

No one in their right mind thinks Nassib is on the caliber of Luck and RGIII.

[Skooby]

oh, and more importantly, it depends on the specific player and the talent of the team he's on. You can't just say "well because Luck and RGIII were drafted high and started from day 1, then Nassib can be drafted high and start from day 1."

No one in their right mind thinks Nassib is on the caliber of Luck and RGIII.

No one in their right mind drafts a QB #1 / #2 in the draft & doesn't plan on them being the immediate starter. If you're drafting anyone that high, they better be ready to put on the field or you made the wrong pick.

[OpIv37]

How about picked #1 or #2 ? When were they they not the starter immediately barring injury if picked that high ??

Jamarcus Russell in 2007. But since then, there have only been 6 guys at QB that high.

Plus, we got off topic. We're talking about picking Nassib at 8, not at 1 or 2. And, all those guys who went 1 and 2 were pretty much consensus high picks. Nassib is a consensus 2nd rounder.

[OpIv37]

This just wreaks of a Tom Donahoe "I'm smarter than everyone else and I'll prove it" pick.

[mjt328]

A hugely more talented surrounding cast wouldn't help at all, with it being obvious that college players are the end of the line for football talent.

You are missing my point.

People are saying we should draft Nassib because he will have a smaller learning curve than the other prospects. But is that a good thing? "Comfort" is not always a good thing. Especially when you are talking about a professional athlete, where success is directly related to determination and hard work.

In my opinion, a rookie quarterback needs to learn the value of spending hours in a film room. Does he get that when he walks into the pros and the system is EXACTLY the same as his last 2-3 years in college? I would be skeptical.

In my opinion (and in the opinion of many experts), Nassib also has some issues with his mechanics. Those issues have a direct impact on his deep ball accuracy. During their time with him in college, Marrone and Hackett either didn't pick up on those issues - or they didn't know how to help him improve them. Nassib needs another set of eyes and another voice to point out his flaws.

Unless Marrone and Hackett are experts in every aspect of football, there is only so much they can teach Nassib. Other rookie quarterbacks will be getting taught new ideas and concepts from a new set of coaches, with different backgrounds in the sport. Nassib gets the same head coach and same offensive coordinator. And by the way, Hackett is also the quarterbacks coach.


Think about it. In life, a person learns valuable things from parents, teachers, friends, employers, etc. Personally, I wouldn't know the things I know today, if I learned everything from my mom and dad. I needed those additional opinions and perspectives. I believe it's similar in football. I was against the hiring of Hackett, because I felt like Marrone needed another experienced voice to help him. Not a familiar face.

[justasportsfan]

This just wreaks of a Tom Donahoe "I'm smarter than everyone else and I'll prove it" pick.

Huh? No matter who Marrone picks, that would be the case. If he drafts anyone with the 8h pick thats because he believes in their potential. That goes for ANY GM in the league. They all have to prove their pick is the right choice.

[Night Train]

Will he be throwing to Darrius Hayward-Bey, the WR you said the Bills were signing last week ? :rolleyes:

You have more stories than mother goose..

LOOK AT ME ! LOOK AT ME !

[Historian]

You guys can laugh it up all you want....but I still want to know how Skooby got a field pass to take pictures with the team down in Miami a few years back?

:scratch:

Not just Skoobs but his whole family as well!!!

[OpIv37]

Not just Skoobs but his whole family as well!!!

I got one of those in 2007 for the Fins game in Buffalo with credit card points. They didn't let me take pics with the players, but all it takes is one person in his family having some connection with one player.

[Historian]

Well, that would be an "in" would it not?

:D

[Ginger Vitis]

To be fair to Skooby he was right about the Bills signing Kevin Kolb

[mikemac2001]

Opiv37 which qb do you want and who do you want in the first

[BertSquirtgum]

Here's a rumor that's fact...

2-14.

If it's a rumor how could it be fact?

[Mski]

How about picked #1 or #2 ? When were they they not the starter immediately barring injury if picked that high ??Eli and Rivers come to mind

[DraftBoy]

Two weeks out and any rumor or whisper of a team WILL TAKE PLAYER X is pointless. So much discussion still to take place and trades change everything.

Does this mean that the Bills aren't currently leaning toward Nassib or including him the discussion? No, but they certainly haven't settled on one player yet despite what anybody claims or thinks they know.

[Mski]

Well, that would be an "in" would it not?

:D
i have an "in" that allows me full "official" access [no restrictions, press box, locker rooms, sidelines] to the stadium atleast once a year. that doesnt mean my "in" can give any insider info, or would even know any insider info

[OpIv37]

Opiv37 which qb do you want and who do you want in the first

I don't want any QB in the first. In a perfect world I'd take Nassib, Geno Smith or (gulp- I can't believe I'm going to say this) Barkley in the second, although I'm fully aware that in the real world, Nassib is the only one who MAY be there that late and even that's a long shot. If we miss out on all of them, I'm ok with that. This team has far too many holes to fill in one off-season. Fix what we can now instead of grasping to find a franchise QB who isn't there.

[better days]

I don't want any QB in the first. In a perfect world I'd take Nassib, Geno Smith or (gulp- I can't believe I'm going to say this) Barkley in the second, although I'm fully aware that in the real world, Nassib is the only one who MAY be there that late and even that's a long shot. If we miss out on all of them, I'm ok with that. This team has far too many holes to fill in one off-season. Fix what we can now instead of grasping to find a franchise QB who isn't there.

I guess the BIG question is do the Bills agree with you that there is no franchise QB in this draft? If so, they probably don't draft a QB until the 2nd or 3rd rnd. If they don't agree with you, then they probably draft one in the first rnd.

[trapezeus]

i really like this thread. this is the kind of mid season "start tjax....f' off, start kolb" type debates right here in April, pre draft!

i think this all keeps us sharp for the season.

[SquishDaFish]

If it's a rumor how could it be fact?


:roflmao:

[SquishDaFish]

I don't want any QB in the first. In a perfect world I'd take Nassib, Geno Smith or (gulp- I can't believe I'm going to say this) Barkley in the second, although I'm fully aware that in the real world, Nassib is the only one who MAY be there that late and even that's a long shot. If we miss out on all of them, I'm ok with that. This team has far too many holes to fill in one off-season. Fix what we can now instead of grasping to find a franchise QB who isn't there.

I agree with you BUT if there is 1 or 2 QBs they LOVE I wouldnt be upset if they picked them #8 only because of the fact we would have another year with him contract wise seeing its a 1st rd pick

[Mahdi]

Op why are you so argumentative all the time?

Wouldn't it be fair to say that the QB position has BY FAR the most to learn and understand? A position that takes most years to fully master the offense? With that said wouldn't this scenario where Nassib has 4 years of knowledge of said system carry more weight than you are giving it credit?

I get what you're saying, and its a point many have made, however, experience in the system is a very small factor and would only come into play if they feel Nassib and another QB are graded equally.

If for example they decide they want to take a QB at 8 and they have Barkley ranked ahead of Nassib then the experience in the system stuff is moot. Because you simply have to take the better player no matter what.

If however they have Nassib and Barkley ranked exactly the same or close to it then yeah, experience and familiarity will factor in.

[mikemac2001]

I don't want any QB in the first. In a perfect world I'd take Nassib, Geno Smith or (gulp- I can't believe I'm going to say this) Barkley in the second, although I'm fully aware that in the real world, Nassib is the only one who MAY be there that late and even that's a long shot. If we miss out on all of them, I'm ok with that. This team has far too many holes to fill in one off-season. Fix what we can now instead of grasping to find a franchise QB who isn't there.

Honesty we see eye to eye

I want our qb I Rd 2 but I Al know we need one bad

Now what happens if the bills follow your plan and get stuck with no 1

And use Kolb all year

[BillsFever21]

I'm not saying Nassib won't be any good but thinking that he could just step right in because he played for Marrone in college is like Steve Spurrier thinking that he could be successful in Washington with his past QB's at Florida like Danny Weurffel and Shane Matthews.

Like I said I'm not comparing Nassib to them bums but just because he played for Marrone doesn't mean that he can step in and be successful in the NFL running his system. He is levels about them guys as far as a prospect goes but it's an example that it doesn't guarantee a successful QB. If possible I want the best QB out of the group for the long haul and not just the guy who would be more familiar with the current HC's offensive system.

[OpIv37]

Honesty we see eye to eye

I want our qb I Rd 2 but I Al know we need one bad

Now what happens if the bills follow your plan and get stuck with no 1

And use Kolb all year

In terms of 2013 results, nothing. TJax, Kolb, a rookie- I think 2013 is a waste with any of them. We just don't have the talent right now. I think we'd be lucky to win 4 games with any of those QB's. The only thing we lose if we can't draft a QB this year is a year of development/evaluation in a season that probably isn't going to be very good anyway. But, it'll be worth it if we can use those 1st and 2nd round draft picks to address G, WR, LB or CB. In terms of a QB, I'd be happier if we could fix the G situation and get another target besides Stevie at WR before throwing him to the wolves anyway. It would make his job that much easier.

[Skooby]

Eli and Rivers come to mind


Eli was drafted & traded, so he never was going to play for the team.

[trapezeus]

whatever QB the bills take will be asked to play behind a patchwork OL and will be called by the fans when the other two can't perform well. ruining a QB is a real possibility.

That's why i'd like to see marrone work his OL skill with his guys and get depth so everyone is on the same page. if kolb can't get any better and tjax sucks as wlel, at least the line is getting it together in the meantime. then you let the qb come in.

and that learning process for th eOL will still result in a crap year.

If the bills go all skill position and avoid the trenches, this will be an impossible rebuild.

[EDS]

Honesty we see eye to eye

I want our qb I Rd 2 but I Al know we need one bad

Now what happens if the bills follow your plan and get stuck with no 1

And use Kolb all year

That might not be horrible because it will mean, or should mean, Buddy will be gone and a new hopefully more competent GM gets to select the new franchise QB. Obviously that is not going to help matters in 2013.

[better days]

In terms of 2013 results, nothing. TJax, Kolb, a rookie- I think 2013 is a waste with any of them. We just don't have the talent right now. I think we'd be lucky to win 4 games with any of those QB's. The only thing we lose if we can't draft a QB this year is a year of development/evaluation in a season that probably isn't going to be very good anyway. But, it'll be worth it if we can use those 1st and 2nd round draft picks to address G, WR, LB or CB. In terms of a QB, I'd be happier if we could fix the G situation and get another target besides Stevie at WR before throwing him to the wolves anyway. It would make his job that much easier.

Well what was the point of getting rid of Chan then? He got the Bills to 6 wins two years in a row, I'm sure he could have done that again.

[BillsFever21]

Well what was the point of getting rid of Chan then? He got the Bills to 6 wins two years in a row, I'm sure he could have done that again.

Because it's about the future and long-term and not just this season. Chan had proved that he was worthless and would never be the answer. There was no reason sticking with a lemon. Hopefully Marrone will be a good coach. I'm reserving judgement until I see him on the field. I just don't like the fact we still have the same incompetent people running the show in the front office. It all starts up top.

[better days]

Because it's about the future and long-term and not just this season. Chan had proved that he was worthless and would never be the answer. There was no reason sticking with a lemon. Hopefully Marrone will be a good coach. I'm reserving judgement until I see him on the field. I just don't like the fact we still have the same incompetent people running the show in the front office. It all starts up top.

Well, if Marrone can not at least match what Chan would have done, he will also need to go after the season ends. No point in keeping a HC that is WORSE than Chan.

[Skooby]

Well, if Marrone can not at least match what Chan would have done, he will also need to go after the season ends. No point in keeping a HC that is WORSE than Chan.

We won't know until it's too late, lol.

[BillsFever21]

Well, if Marrone can not at least match what Chan would have done, he will also need to go after the season ends. No point in keeping a HC that is WORSE than Chan.

Unless a younger first time NFL HC looks completely clueless you have to give them two years at the very least and most likely three years. His situation is different then Chan's. Chan had already have a track record for decades with mostly failures on his resume outside of his success as an OC a decade before we hired him. He also proved his incompetence the three years he was in Buffalo. Marrone also has first time coordinators in reality which will take a while. Pettine was the DC for the Jets but it wasn't his defense and he only called the plays for one season. He still has to prove that he can do it with his defense and him totally in charge of it.

It's not like this is a loaded roster where anybody could step in and do the job. They have a much tougher schedule this year and will have at least 1/3 of the starting roster with new guys and many of them rookies or starting for the first time. If they don't win at least 6 games it doesn't automatically mean he's a worse coach then Gailey. Year number two will definitely be the year where you really start judging his talents as a HC.

[Skooby]

Unless a younger first time NFL HC looks completely clueless you have to give them two years at the very least and most likely three years. His situation is different then Chan's. Chan had already have a track record for decades with mostly failures on his resume outside of his success as an OC a decade before we hired him. He also proved his incompetence the three years he was in Buffalo. Marrone also has first time coordinators in reality which will take a while. Pettine was the DC for the Jets but it wasn't his defense and he only called the plays for one season. He still has to prove that he can do it with his defense and him totally in charge of it.

It's not like this is a loaded roster where anybody could step in and do the job. They have a much tougher schedule this year and will have at least 1/3 of the starting roster with new guys and many of them rookies or starting for the first time. If they don't win at least 6 games it doesn't automatically mean he's a worse coach then Gailey. Year number two will definitely be the year where you really start judging his talents as a HC.

Our schedule is loaded with tough teams, we're in for a time of it.

[BillsFever21]

Our schedule is loaded with tough teams, we're in for a time of it.

I'd say so. We have games against teams that went deep in the playoffs like the Ravens, Patriots twice and the Falcons along with the Bengals who made the playoffs. We also have games against tough teams that are usually in the playoffs but had a set back year like the Steelers and the Saints. The Saints will be back to the playoffs this year now that Payton will be returning. Then we have games against tough younger teams like the Panthers and Bucs. Then we all know how we perform in our division. If we split with the Fins and Jets and won 2 of the games it would be considered good.

Basically the only games that are against bad teams from last year are the Chiefs, Browns and Jaguars. The Jaguars are terrible but the Chiefs will be much improved and the Browns are about the same level or maybe even slightly better then we are at his point in time.

[Tatonka]

wait.. so your predicting what every "analyst has been saying since the day we hired our coaching staff? way to go out on a limb there.

[OpIv37]

Well, if Marrone can not at least match what Chan would have done, he will also need to go after the season ends. No point in keeping a HC that is WORSE than Chan.

At the moment our roster is worse than what Chan had, plus we will have new systems on both sides of the ball that will come with learning curves. Marrone has the odds stacked against him this year. Not winning 6 games doesn't automatically mean Marrone is worse than Chan.

[Skooby]

At the moment our roster is worse than what Chan had, plus we will have new systems on both sides of the ball that will come with learning curves. Marrone has the odds stacked against him this year. Not winning 6 games doesn't automatically mean Marrone is worse than Chan.

Unless of course something odd happens, like our QB makes us successful.

[swiper]

If they think Nassib is their guy, I don't care if they reach. Grab him. Don't want another situation where they end up settling like they did with JP instead of grabbing Ben Roth.

If Nassib is their guy then they should all be fired.

[SpikedLemonade]

If Nassib is their guy then they should all be fired.

Well, you just know they are going to feel "comfortable" with Nassib.

Just like Ralph feels "comfortable" with Russ Brandon.

Just like Brandon feels "comfortable" with Marrone.

Just like Marrone feels "comfortable" with his OC.

It should be a really "comfortable" 2-14 season.

[Skooby]

Well, you just know they are going to feel "comfortable" with Nassib.

Just like Ralph feels "comfortable" with Russ Brandon.

Just like Brandon feels "comfortable" with Marrone.

Just like Marrone feels "comfortable" with his OC.

It should be a really "comfortable" 2-14 season.

Then we draft Johnny Football baby !!

[SpikedLemonade]

Then we draft Johnny Football baby !!

I am "comfortable" with that.

[BillsFever21]

Well, you just know they are going to feel "comfortable" with Nassib.

Just like Ralph feels "comfortable" with Russ Brandon.

Just like Brandon feels "comfortable" with Marrone.

Just like Marrone feels "comfortable" with his OC.

It should be a really "comfortable" 2-14 season.

Brandon definitely shouldn't be in his position. Unfortunately he is and I would hope they fell comfortable with each other. Lets hope he got lucky and made a good hire for once.

I don't like the choice of Hackett as the OC one bit though. That's young for an OC even for somebody who has spent years in the NFL working their way up through the ranks of positional coaches before they got the job title. The only experience he has was in college and now all of a sudden he is the OC at 33 years old.

I don't have a problem with him on the staff since he is familiar with Marrone and his system but it should've been more as a positional coach to start off his NFL career. I'm sure Marrone will be calling the plays but it's still important to have somebody with an NFL pedigree, experience and success at other positions to be in charge of the offense.

You would also think that Marrone would want somebody experienced in that position in his first year as an NFL HC. I don't know if he feels threatened by having somebody with NFL experience be in charge of the offense, if it's his ego or if he just wanted somebody he is familiar with but either way you don't see that very much. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it works out.

[Skooby]

We got a desirable coaching staff, hopefully they're better than their predecessors.

[SUPERBOWLBILLS]

Nassib is not going to go at 8. No one is going to risk a 8th pick in any draft in the history of the NFL for a guy like that. The Bills will take the best player available at that 1st rd slot and then fill needs later in the draft and through free agency.

[Historian]

You would also think that Marrone would want somebody experienced in that position in his first year as an NFL HC. I don't know if he feels threatened by having somebody with NFL experience be in charge of the offense, if it's his ego or if he just wanted somebody he is familiar with but either way you don't see that very much. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it works out.

Not having top flight coordinators is a Bills trend, and I'm not sure who is to blame for it.

Even in the glory years, after Marchibroda left.

[Mahdi]

whatever QB the bills take will be asked to play behind a patchwork OL and will be called by the fans when the other two can't perform well. ruining a QB is a real possibility.

That's why i'd like to see marrone work his OL skill with his guys and get depth so everyone is on the same page. if kolb can't get any better and tjax sucks as wlel, at least the line is getting it together in the meantime. then you let the qb come in.

and that learning process for th eOL will still result in a crap year.

If the bills go all skill position and avoid the trenches, this will be an impossible rebuild.

Patchwork OL?

We're only missing Levitre. The rest of the OL is intact. Levitre was good but he isn't Larry Allen. We need 1 OG to start and one more for depth.

[trapezeus]

regardless of the last 13 years, the guy hired is starting fresh. so while we as fans are fed up, he's starting over. he knows he has time. everyone gets three years. part of me thinks he got a longer contract (why else come to buffalo if everyone was knocking on his door).

from that perspective, i really don't care if the bills go 2-14. and if they avoid a qb one more year, it's no biggie. i don't see a QB being able to do a turnaround with an entire team in flux. it's one thing if the bills drafted a qb because chan was here and they had the continuity. they are starting over. so a draft of OL and LB's wouldnt be a bad thing. it creates a lot of compeition in the most important areas of the team. and when the best rise to the top and the worst end up servicable, a QB (even in a bad class), could step into a team with a good ol and find time and make the throws if they are accurate.

Look at fitz. He is wildly inaccurate on passes over 10 yards, yet he had put up several games with 24+points because he had time and the run game could work. imagine what an accurate qb could do.

[justasportsfan]

Brandon definitely shouldn't be in his position. Unfortunately he is and I would hope they fell comfortable with each other. Lets hope he got lucky and made a good hire for once.

I don't like the choice of Hackett as the OC one bit though. That's young for an OC even for somebody who has spent years in the NFL working their way up through the ranks of positional coaches before they got the job title. The only experience he has was in college and now all of a sudden he is the OC at 33 years old.

I don't have a problem with him on the staff since he is familiar with Marrone and his system but it should've been more as a positional coach to start off his NFL career. I'm sure Marrone will be calling the plays but it's still important to have somebody with an NFL pedigree, experience and success at other positions to be in charge of the offense.

You would also think that Marrone would want somebody experienced in that position in his first year as an NFL HC. I don't know if he feels threatened by having somebody with NFL experience be in charge of the offense, if it's his ego or if he just wanted somebody he is familiar with but either way you don't see that very much. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it works out.

while I agree with your concerns with regards to Hackett, on the flipside I can see how this might work. There is less of a learning curve in terms of the OC being on the same wave length or same page as Marrone. Marrone won't be stuck having to just concentrate on the offense like Gailey did. Since he and HAckett sat down and designed plays together, Marrone can overlook the other units of the team as he said he wanted to be in a CEO like position overlooking the entire team.This has worked for him at Syracuse.

I just hope that players will respond well to Hackett despite his age and lack of experience in the NFL. This is where MArrone can guide Hackett.

Gailey and Jauron could not do this and has led to their teams suffering on the opposite side of their expertise.

[better days]

regardless of the last 13 years, the guy hired is starting fresh. so while we as fans are fed up, he's starting over. he knows he has time. everyone gets three years. part of me thinks he got a longer contract (why else come to buffalo if everyone was knocking on his door).

from that perspective, i really don't care if the bills go 2-14. and if they avoid a qb one more year, it's no biggie. i don't see a QB being able to do a turnaround with an entire team in flux. it's one thing if the bills drafted a qb because chan was here and they had the continuity. they are starting over. so a draft of OL and LB's wouldnt be a bad thing. it creates a lot of compeition in the most important areas of the team. and when the best rise to the top and the worst end up servicable, a QB (even in a bad class), could step into a team with a good ol and find time and make the throws if they are accurate.

Look at fitz. He is wildly inaccurate on passes over 10 yards, yet he had put up several games with 24+points because he had time and the run game could work. imagine what an accurate qb could do.

NOT every Coach gets 3 years, See Mularkey as an example, fired from the Jags this year. He NEVER got 3 years in his career.

If Marrone goes 2-14 with the talent on the Bills, he should be FIRED after the season. We don't need a HC that is WORSE than Chan.

[BertSquirtgum]

Chanly was a really bad coach. If the Bills are worse than 8-8 I will be surprised.

[SpikedLemonade]

Chanly was a really bad coach. If the Bills are worse than 8-8 I will be surprised.

Get ready to be surprised.

[swiper]

We got a desirable coaching staff, hopefully they're better than their predecessors.

You'll rinse and repeat this statement in three more years.

[trapezeus]

NOT every Coach gets 3 years, See Mularkey as an example, fired from the Jags this year. He NEVER got 3 years in his career.

If Marrone goes 2-14 with the talent on the Bills, he should be FIRED after the season. We don't need a HC that is WORSE than Chan.


jags also have no front office identity and are running around in circles pretending to be a "pro" team. Mularkey was an idiotic hire at the time. and he's failed as a HC before. they wanted tebow, they didn't get tebow....they wanted gabbert, they can't win with gabbert. The whole team sucks. i wouldn't follow the jags.

If the bills can marrone after a 2-14 season after giving him nothing to work with, it's a huge mistake.

as for chan being a really bad coach and marrone should be better? chan cleaned up an atrocious OL for years. he got points put on the board. and at times, you felt like they could be in any game...but it fell apart. marrone is coming in against a tough schedule, putting in new schemes, with coordinators who haven't called plays before.

i know we always say, "it's been so bad, it can't get worse." But it does. it always gets worse. "it can't get worse than letting 50 points go up in canada against the QB we should have drafted."

But it will. we will give up 60pts to whatever QB we didn't take this year, and he'll get injured the following week and/or never play that well again.

Never be surprised by what hte buffalo bills will offer up when it comes the menu of ineptitude. they can make anything served to order.

[better days]

Chanly was a really bad coach. If the Bills are worse than 8-8 I will be surprised.

I think Chan was a good offensive coach, but he could not pick a DC to save his life or his job. Chan was clearly NOT HC material.

[better days]

jags also have no front office identity and are running around in circles pretending to be a "pro" team. Mularkey was an idiotic hire at the time. and he's failed as a HC before. they wanted tebow, they didn't get tebow....they wanted gabbert, they can't win with gabbert. The whole team sucks. i wouldn't follow the jags.

If the bills can marrone after a 2-14 season after giving him nothing to work with, it's a huge mistake.

as for chan being a really bad coach and marrone should be better? chan cleaned up an atrocious OL for years. he got points put on the board. and at times, you felt like they could be in any game...but it fell apart. marrone is coming in against a tough schedule, putting in new schemes, with coordinators who haven't called plays before.

i know we always say, "it's been so bad, it can't get worse." But it does. it always gets worse. "it can't get worse than letting 50 points go up in canada against the QB we should have drafted."

But it will. we will give up 60pts to whatever QB we didn't take this year, and he'll get injured the following week and/or never play that well again.

Never be surprised by what hte buffalo bills will offer up when it comes the menu of ineptitude. they can make anything served to order.

Well, I will say it again, if Marrone can't win at least 6 games he needs to be FIRED. There is NO EXCUSE to win less than 6 games with the talent on this team. There is PLENTY to work with on this team, the cupboard is NOT bare. This is a MUCH better team talent wise than when Chan was hired.

[justasportsfan]

Well, I will say it again, if Marrone can't win at least 6 games he needs to be FIRED. There is NO EXCUSE to win less than 6 games with the talent on this team. There is PLENTY to work with on this team, the cupboard is NOT bare. This is a MUCH better team talent wise than when Chan was hired.

BB went 5-11 in his first year with Pats. Just saying.

[Joe Fo Sho]

BB went 5-11 in his first year with Pats. Just saying.

He must not have had the Pro Bowl roster that the Bills have this year.

[better days]

BB went 5-11 in his first year with Pats. Just saying.

Yeah, and Jimmy Johnson only won 2 or 3 games his first year in Dallas. I don't care. The only player the Bills lost that mattered is Levitre. If Marrone can't coach this team to win at least 6 games his first year, I have no expectation that he will become Belicheck or Johnson in the future. And I will be screaming for his head on a long sharp stick.

[BertSquirtgum]

Get ready to be surprised.

Stop thanking every one of your post with your alias coastal.

[trapezeus]

Well, I will say it again, if Marrone can't win at least 6 games he needs to be FIRED. There is NO EXCUSE to win less than 6 games with the talent on this team. There is PLENTY to work with on this team, the cupboard is NOT bare. This is a MUCH better team talent wise than when Chan was hired.


what position on this team is better than all 3 AFC east team?

i disagree. there is close to no talent, and very little depth. and you need a bit of talent, and a lot of depth to be a good team.

[better days]

what position on this team is better than all 3 AFC east team?

i disagree. there is close to no talent, and very little depth. and you need a bit of talent, and a lot of depth to be a good team.

RB for one.

6 wins is NOT a GOOD team. It is a MEDIOCRE team.

If Marrone can not Coach the Bills to at least 6 wins, then he is not a mediocre HC, he is a TERRIBLE HC & will need to be fired.

[Figster]

All good points, OP.

But I still think that you take him at 8. I think you make a statement with the pick, especially now that we have Kolb to take the initial beatings.

I agree Historian, If you think a guy is right for your system/football team the difference between 1st round and 2nd becomes a mute point.

The Buffalo bills have been without a good QB for over a decade! Don't screw this up!!!

[Mski]

what position on this team is better than all 3 AFC east team?

i disagree. there is close to no talent, and very little depth. and you need a bit of talent, and a lot of depth to be a good team.RB and FS

[swiper]

Stop thanking every one of your post with your alias coastal.

Not only are they different people, living thousands of miles apart - they live in different countries.

They are alike in being Bills fans and in their opinion of you as a poster.

Why don't you try to stick to the post topic and stop antagonizing other posters for a change? Grow up.

[BertSquirtgum]

Not only are they different people, living thousands of miles apart - they live in different countries.

They are alike in being Bills fans and in their opinion of you as a poster.

Why don't you try to stick to the post topic and stop antagonizing other posters for a change? Grow up.

Incorrect.

[Skooby]

Not only are they different people, living thousands of miles apart - they live in different countries.

They are alike in being Bills fans and in their opinion of you as a poster.

Why don't you try to stick to the post topic and stop antagonizing other posters for a change? Grow up.

Coastal's posts are very unique, no other aliases detected on here.

[Albany,n.y.]

Yeah, and Jimmy Johnson only won 2 or 3 games his first year in Dallas. I don't care. The only player the Bills lost that mattered is Levitre. If Marrone can't coach this team to win at least 6 games his first year, I have no expectation that he will become Belicheck or Johnson in the future. And I will be screaming for his head on a long sharp stick.
what makes you think we haven't downgraded the most important position on the field? As erratic as Fitzpatrick was, he still is better than Kolb, Jackson or any rookie who has never taken an NFL snap. Kolb has an injury history similar to T. Edwards & R. Johnson. Last year the schedule was easier & they still only managed 6 wins .
A lot of great coaches got off to horrible starts as rookie head coaches. Parcells almost got fired by the Giants. You have to give a rookie coach two years to properly evaluate him unless he shows he's way over his head like Hank Bullough.

[Albany,n.y.]

Chanly was a really bad coach. If the Bills are worse than 8-8 I will be surprised.

A lot of people were saying the same thing after Chan got hired to replace Jauron (and Fewell).

When you are on restart, anything good or bad can happen in the 1st season. Right QB, good things, wrong QB bad things & possibly bad enough to set things up for the getting the right QB the following season.

I'll be more concerned with how 2014 looks next December than what their final W-L record is.

[jwenger]

How did we get off the subject??
Point is Manuel>>>Nassib, not even close. Work them out,
talk to them, watch tapes. Watch a rerun of the combine.
Manuel is the better QB period.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

How did we get off the subject??
Point is Manuel>>>Nassib, not even close. Work them out,
talk to them, watch tapes. Watch a rerun of the combine.
Manuel is the better QB period.
But both megasuck

[BertSquirtgum]

But both megasuck

Disagree. Manuel is going to be good. Reminds me a lot of Kaepernick.

[Dr. Lecter]

We might trade back for an extra pick in the first round if we scare another team into a loss of a player and grab an extra second with a little gambling but the Bills need a player that knows the system & works now. Ralph is not long for this world and the team will do so much better with Nassib in a familiar system versus forcing other players into something they need to learn.


Nassib will be the starting QB come our first game, Kolb being a good back-up. Mark my words to this post, it's already over, it's been called already.

I guess they could still draft Nassib and start him.

Is that your prediction?

[Skooby]

I guess they could still draft Nassib and start him.

Is that your prediction?

Word is that EJ is a great leader, a great man & a complete physical package. They need to work with him to get him ready but his upside is off the charts good, like potentially one of the best passers in the league. He also can run but isn't that good & throwing on the run right now.

We have 4 QB's now, I would safely say we won't draft another.

P.S. Something in the Nassib interviews (which was like ongoing) lead them away from him, like the feeling he thought that he was entitled to get the job.