Buscaglia makes a case for the Bills taking Vaccaro

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Posted: Friday, 12 April 2013 1:42PM


Bills picking safety at 8 makes a lot of sense


By Joe Buscaglia


JoeB@wgr550.com



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(WGR 550) -- Stop. Hold it right there. I already know your ammunition for even the title of this article.

"What is this? Donte Whitner all over again?!"

You can have that line of thinking back, just as long as you read through why the Buffalo Bills drafting a safety at 8th overall might make more sense than you'd think.

Deal? Okay, great. Here goes nothing:

When you look at the Bills roster as it's constructed, there are plenty of glaring needs that jump out at you. Whether it be quarterback, wide receiver, tight end, guard, pass rusher, linebacker, cornerback or safety, there will be no shortage of players in this year's draft that the Bills could use.

When talking about eighth overall, assuming that quarterback may be more of a second-round option with this year's group, safety would rank near the top of positions they have a need for. Factoring out quarterbacks, here is why I'd discredit some of the other positions before I would with safety:


Tight End - Unless you're getting a lock solid tight end that will be a Pro Bowl player for years, selecting a tight end with as many needs as they have at eighth overall makes little sense.



Guard - I honestly believe that the Bills would have made more of an effort early on to re-sign Andy Levitre if they valued the guard position all that much. They found Kraig Urbik and Chad Rinehart off the waiver wire. Urbik is a solid starter and Rinehart served as the top backup. You can find guards in the middle rounds.



Pass Rusher - With the signing of Manny Lawson to a four-year contract, where does a versatile pass rusher fit in to this defense right away? Lawson, Mario Williams and Mark Anderson are already there. If you draft a guy like Dion Jordan or Jarvis Jones, that's the same role you just signed Lawson to do.



Linebacker - First of all, who's to say they've given up on Kelvin Sheppard and Nigel Bradham yet? Sheppard is entering his third season, and Bradham showed flashes during his rookie season. They certainly aren't All-Pro players at this point, but you could do far worse. Secondly, is there someone worthy of the eigth overall pick that plays either middle or weakside linebacker? It doesn't appear so.



Cornerback - This would have been a much stronger consideration had the Bills not re-signed Leodis McKelvin. Since they did, they'll have a full-scale competition between him, Aaron Williams and Ron Brooks to see who comes out victorious. Also, if you believe the Buddy Nix principles (which you should by this point), they will select a cornerback at some point of the draft -- likely within rounds two through four. They'll compete for the job as well.

So where does that leave us? Wide receiver and safety. The two most logical positions, outside of quarterback, that the Bills could address early in this draft. There are many reasons why safety at eight overall makes more sense than taking a wide receiver there.

First and foremost, the value of the wide receivers. With Lance Zierlein's report (https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein/status/322049447452364800) that Tennessee wide receiver Cordarrelle Patterson is slipping on draft boards and could even be available in the second round, that means that the Bills have not invited the top two receivers (Tavon Austin and DeAndre Hopkins) in for draft visits this year.

If you don't view that to be significant, then recall what Buddy Nix said about the type of wide receiver they would be looking for. In so many words, Nix said they want a receiver who is open even when he is not. To interpret, that would mean the player has to possess either superior size, physicality or a combination of the two. That is not Tavon Austin, and eighth overall is a bit too early for DeAndre Hopkins.

Let's get in to more of the case for safety now. Of course, there is the hold steady at the position. Former fourth-round pick Da'Norris Searcy worked his way in to the rotation last season, even taking reps away from starter George Wilson at strong safety. Searcy is said to have a good presence against the run, but he may not be fully developed when opponents fight through the air.

Searcy was also a favorite of the last coaching staff, mind you. And that coaching staff, with the presence of Searcy, Wilson and even Jairus Byrd, was enamored by Alabama safety Mark Barron in the 2012 NFL Draft. If he were on the board at tenth overall, I've been told that Barron would have been in a Bills uniform.

Now, with Wilson out of the equation and a new coaching staff and a brand new defense, Searcy starts off from sqaure one.

The looming situation involving Jairus Byrd's contract needs to be considered as well. Byrd, franchised by the Bills this off-season, is with Buffalo for one more year. Past that? Who really knows. The Bills could always franchise him for a second season, or they could even let him walk if they can't agree on a fair price.

One day, Byrd will get paid with a large free agent contract. Whether or not it's with the Bills will be the big question. Even if they do re-sign Byrd to let's say... $7.5 million per season, Buffalo won't have to commit a monster contract to their young safety and have him locked up for the next four seasons. Last year's eighth overall pick, Ryan Tannehill, signed a four-year deal worth $12.668 million. That comes out to $3.167 million per season, which is an extremely manageable contract.

So then why does taking a safety, outside of a quarterback, with the eighth overall pick make the most sense for the Bills?

Simply put, look at the way the NFL is trending. Tight ends are taking over the league and a premium has to be put on finding players to stop them. Having a strong safety alongside Byrd that has those capabilities to disrupt the game of those players is very important to what the Bills want to do on defense.

Look at the Ravens and Jets since Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine has been in the league. They've all had superb play from their safeties, really putting a premium on having that position be able to hold their own and help set the tone to make the opposing offense more one-dimensional. Ed Reed, Dawan Landry, Jim Leonhard, Kerry Rhodes, LaRon Landry, Yeremiah Bell... all have been added either through the draft or free agency to make sure they have legitimate and responsible playmakers in the deep defensive secondary.

Not convinced that safeties are worth it in the first round? Getting a player in to the correct scheme is important at any position and safety is no exception. With that said, take a look at safeties taken in the first round over the past 10 years:

2012: Mark Barron, Harrison Smith
2011: None
2010: Eric Berry, Earl Thomas
2009: None
2008: Kenny Phillips
2007: LaRon Landry, Reggie Nelson, Brandon Meriweather
2006: Michael Huff, Donte Whitner, Jason Allen
2005: None
2004: Sean Taylor
2003: Troy Polamalu

Out of that group, who have been complete misses? Jason Allen, most definitely. Kenny Phillips has struggled with injuries but remains intriguing to teams every year for his talent alone. Outside of them, you have Pro Bowl players and people that are still starting to this very day.

Say what you want about Donte Whitner, but he was in the wrong defensive scheme in Buffalo. To me, he is a solid player that many in the area resented because of what Haloti Ngata turned out to be in Baltimore. Any player that is used improperly is going to struggle some. Would you ask Chad Pennington to throw fly patterns 24 times a game? You get my drift.

If you look at the position from an historical perspective, the safety spot in the first round hits quite frequently -- maybe even more so than most positions. And if you believe the pre-draft visits could be an indicator, the Bills brought in five safeties for visits, ranging from a first round prospect, to a middle rounder, to a trio of late round safeties. Through that logic, the Bills are definitely looking to add.

Assuming I've held your attention for this long, perhaps you're intrigued by the possibilities of adding a top-flight safety to the mix. The next question is inevitable:

Who is a safety worthy of the eighth overall pick?

Meet Kenny Vaccaro from Texas. A safety with great size (6-feet, 214-pounds), physicality, hips and coverage abilities. Vaccaro was used all over the field at Texas, even dabbling at nickel when teams went in those sets. Having someone with Vaccaro's versatility can not only put Searcy on the field in situations, but also serves as a two-in-one type of pick that can help the secondary overall.

Also be mindful of what the Bills had planned for Barron had he been the pick in 2012. Instead of seeing Bryan Scott on the field in countless nickel situations, that would have been Barron's role. Covering up the tight ends will be his job, because to this point he has showed he is darn good at it. With Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Dustin Keller and whoever the Jets add in the division, you better be sure you have someone to help keep those players at bay.

While by many accounts, he will need to get better at tackling and not be overly aggressive, these are virtues that can be fixed with the proper coaching. Buffalo's secondary coach? The very experienced Donnie Henderson, who has even led a defense himself.

So I ask once again, does a safety make sense to you at 8th overall?

If it didn't before, I hope it does now.

http://www.wgr550.com/Buscaglia-Bills-picking-safety-at-8-makes-a-lot-of/16036692

Decent article. I don't agree with all of it, but he makes some decent points. Basically he is agruing that Vaccaro will likely be the BPA when the Bills pick. And while it might not be the biggest area of need - it is an area of need. He may end up being right. I just can't get the bad Donte Whitner thoughts outta my head.</article>

[JoeMama]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/NO-1.gif (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/JoeMama025/media/NO-1.gif.html)

It serves no rational purpose to draft a safety that high. When I watched the train wreck that was the 2012 Buffalo Bills, I didn't sit there and think to myself, "Wow, I wish we had a better safety. That would put us over the edge!"

If we honestly find ourselves in a position where Kenny Vaccaro is the BPA at #8, then I think we should consider moving back and getting another draft pick. Taking Vaccaro is stupid any way you dice it.

[Raptor]

B B B B B But you're crazy thinking that Vaccaro is a legit option at #8 lololol

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/218088-So-how-bad-are-Bills-fans-going-to-lose-their-s***-when-Safety-K-Vaccaro-is-the-pick

[Mr. Pink]

Well last year Mark Barron was highly thought of at OBD allegedly.

So Vaccaro being the pick wouldn't be too surprising.

[coastal]

Christ.

[kingJofNYC]

This is almost a no brainer story for anyone paying attention the last couple of years. Vaccaro's a better cover safety than Barron, no depth for the Bills at S, best S is half way out the door, trouble covering TE, **** run support by Safeties, and a D Co who uses 3 safeties quite often.

That said, the draft is deep at S so it's no lock. A similar argument can be made for DE, Lawson is a stop gap, no depth behind Williams, Anderson and Lawson are not difference makers and can't be relied upon, very inconsistent players.

I think DE/S/LT position is higher on their list than QB/WR/G, heck I think they might take a DT.

[whkfc]

I feel like the Bills have drafted more dbs in the first two rounds than any other team in the world over the last two decades. I'm done with the high dbs. It hasn't gotten us anywhere. You win games in the trenches and with good qbs. We don't regularly draft those positions high so we continue to lose.

[Syderick]

Who makes a case for who?

[JoeMama]

I feel like the Bills have drafted more dbs in the first two rounds than any other team in the world over the last two decades. I'm done with the high dbs. It hasn't gotten us anywhere. You win games in the trenches and with good qbs. We don't regularly draft those positions high so we continue to lose.

Exactly!

If drafting DBs in the top two rounds was the way to build a good team, we'd be superbowl winners 20 times over.

The pattern is very clear. We'd be idiots to repeat it.

Fool me once...

[BertSquirtgum]

Actually, it makes no ****ing sense at all. This ****** needs to shut up.

[Parzival]

Actually, it makes no ****ing sense at all. This ****** needs to shut up.

dunno why, but this made me laugh my ass off.

[kingJofNYC]

Actually, it makes no ****ing sense at all. This ****** needs to shut up.
Does anything they do make sense?

Look at the predraft visits so far. 4 safeties, 4 WR, Every QB, and a few edge rushers. They're taking a S, and it might be higher than most of us are willing to accept.

Mathieu was supposed to visit as well, they are all over the safeties.

[SUPERBOWLBILLS]

If we take a safety we literally name Kevin Kolb the starter in ****ing April! And I'm going to **** on my own face if that happens.

[Night Train]

It only makes sense if Byrd is traded for multiple picks, due to the Bills wanting to fill several holes now.

http://sports.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981869074

[swiper]

B B B B B But you're crazy thinking that Vaccaro is a legit option at #8 lololol

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/218088-So-how-bad-are-Bills-fans-going-to-lose-their-s***-when-Safety-K-Vaccaro-is-the-pick

I posted this article specifically to support my opinion in that thread. If the Bills tak him they will explain it away as "Vaccaro was the BPA at a position of need." The problem is that SS is like 4 or 5 spots down the list of need. And, again, there were some free agent options they could have pursued and they didn't to fill that need and they didn't. So no "lolololol."

[mayotm]

dunno why, but this made me laugh my ass off.Perhaps you have the sense of humor of a six year old.

[Buddo]

Not too sure if trading Byrd makes sense tbh. Not so much from the Bills pov, as they do need the picks, but from anyone wanting to trade for him, when this draft is supposedly deep at the position.
Note - I'm not advocating trading Byrd, at all, ever.
The bills would be better off trading back with someone, to get more picks, but only if they can come out of it ahead. There are a few players other teams might be interested in at the #8 pick, that could get us a decent trade done.

[coastal]

Letting our best offensive linemen go... Check!

letting our best defensive player go... Processing!

Turning 2-14 into 1-15... Roger!

[swiper]

Letting our best offensive linemen go... Check!

letting our best defensive player go... Processing!

Turning 2-14 into 1-15... Roger!

You know if it happend one time and they successfully turned the team around it would be one thing, but....

[Extremebillsfan247]

On paper, Vaccaro does fit in a pattern of recent Bills draft selections. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to see him selected at 8. On whether or not he will be the selection, I wouldn't bet money on it, but He definitely shouldn't be overlooked. JMO

[coastal]

You know if it happend one time and they successfully turned the team around it would be one thing, but....
Letting the best players we draft never get past their rookie contracts?

I'm actually down with this plan... Lets draft a safety 8th overall, let our other safety to for two second round picks... We can kick Aaron Williams into guar... errr... the safety spot vacated by Byrd.

if that doesn't scream how to build a contender... I don't know what does.

[SCBILLFAN1]

Didn't Scott cost us a couple of games with late dropped interceptions? The D coach comes from two teams that had great SS play.
I don't want a safety but it's that or a guard or overdrafting a QB.

[swiper]

Letting the best players we draft never get past their rookie contracts?

I'm actually down with this plan... Lets draft a safety 8th overall, let our other safety to for two second round picks... We can kick Aaron Williams into guar... errr... the safety spot vacated by Byrd.

if that doesn't scream how to build a contender... I don't know what does.

You're crying over spilled milk with complaining about Levitre. He commanded way too much money for a guard with his second contract. Tennessee wanted to pay it. The Bills were smart not to.

He was good, but he's replaceable at a much more reasonable salary. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Of course, it remains to be seen what they do to fill that spot. That and whether they can resign Byrd.

[Extremebillsfan247]

http://www.wgr550.com/Buscaglia-Bills-picking-safety-at-8-makes-a-lot-of/16036692

Decent article. I don't agree with all of it, but he makes some decent points. Basically he is agruing that Vaccaro will likely be the BPA when the Bills pick. And while it might not be the biggest area of need - it is an area of need. He may end up being right. I just can't get the bad Donte Whitner thoughts outta my head.
The funny thing about this article is that I asked Joe Buscaglia about this guy last Thursday when WGR550 put out the list of Bills pre draft visits. The next day this article comes out.

Here's my tweet to him: " ExtremeBillsFan247 ‏<s>@</s>ExtremeBillsFan (https://twitter.com/ExtremeBillsFan) <small class="time"> 11 Apr (https://twitter.com/ExtremeBillsFan/status/322379317201993731) </small> <s>@</s>JoeBuscaglia (https://twitter.com/JoeBuscaglia) How much do you know about Kenny Vaccaro, Safety out of Texas? Is he a possible 1st round target? <s>#</s>BillsDraft (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BillsDraft&src=hash) "

I'm sure it's probably just coincidence. But it's funny, at least to me.

[Novacane]

The funny thing about this article is that I asked Joe Buscaglia about this guy last Thursday when WGR550 put out the list of Bills pre draft visits. The next day this article comes out.

Here's my tweet to him: " ExtremeBillsFan247 ‏<s>@</s>ExtremeBillsFan (https://twitter.com/ExtremeBillsFan) <small class="time"> 11 Apr (https://twitter.com/ExtremeBillsFan/status/322379317201993731) </small> <s>@</s>JoeBuscaglia (https://twitter.com/JoeBuscaglia) How much do you know about Kenny Vaccaro, Safety out of Texas? Is he a possible 1st round target? <s>#</s>BillsDraft (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BillsDraft&src=hash) "

I'm sure it's probably just coincidence. But it's funny, at least to me.



Negged





J/K lol I'm sure he got the idea from you. wgr stooges don't come up with anything themselves

[YardRat]

I'd be OK with it. Vaccaro has a better shot of giving us our Polamalu, Reed, type player in the backfield than any WR or QB has of becoming our Johnson/Fitzgerald or Flacco/BigBen.

[coastal]

You're crying over spilled milk with complaining about Levitre. He commanded way too much money for a guard with his second contract. Tennessee wanted to pay it. The Bills were smart not to.

He was good, but he's replaceable at a much more reasonable salary. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Of course, it remains to be seen what they do to fill that spot. That and whether they can resign Byrd.spilt milk?

is that what u call 13 seasons of no playoffs?

[swiper]

I'd be OK with it. Vaccaro has a better shot of giving us our Polamalu, Reed, type player in the backfield than any WR or QB has of becoming our Johnson/Fitzgerald or Flacco/BigBen.

Exactly the argument being made by Buscaglia. Not sure I agree with it. How could any Bills fan be fully on board with it? After all the high secondary picks over the years, especially Donte Whitner?

[coastal]

I'd be OK with it. Vaccaro has a better shot of giving us our Polamalu, Reed, type player in the backfield than any WR or QB has of becoming our Johnson/Fitzgerald or Flacco/BigBen.
Wtf is wrong with you?

[swiper]

spilt milk?

is that what u call 13 seasons of no playoffs?

I was talking specifically about Levitre. You said something about letting our best players go after their rookie contract. I read that to be a complaint about letting Levitre walk.

[swiper]

Wtf is wrong with you?

Again, if people are trying to pimp a Vaccaro selection because he's BPA in an area of need, and the Bills could get one of the top OTs or LBs they have to go that route. Anyone trying to sell us on Vaccaro over Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher or Jordan, Jones, Minter, Mingo, Ogletree? Vaccaro would be a luxury pick for a team with fewer immediate needs.

[DraftBoy]

Vaccaro being drafted has nothing to do with Byrd.

People complaining about this pick don't understand just how vital the SS is to our new defense. Is it a little high? Yes, Is Vaccaro the top target at 8? Nope.

- - - Updated - - -


Again, if people are trying to pimp a Vaccaro selection because he's BPA in an area of need, and the Bills could get one of the top OTs or LBs they have to go that route. Anyone trying to sell us on Vaccaro over Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher or Jordan, Jones, Minter, Mingo, Ogletree? Vaccaro would be a luxury pick for a team with fewer immediate needs.

I'd take Vaccaro, his talent, and fit over Jones, Minter, and Ogletree in a heartbeat. So would almost every NFL team.

[DraftBoy]

Exactly the argument being made by Buscaglia. Not sure I agree with it. How could any Bills fan be fully on board with it? After all the high secondary picks over the years, especially Donte Whitner?

Because those people understand what the SS is in our new defensive scheme. He's basically gotta be a Bandit and that's not an easy fit. That's why you see OLB prospects like Collins and Jordan who can run or big SAF's who can run and tackle Vaccaro, Taylor, etc.

Also why a guy like Searcy, who is unbelievably overrated by this fan base, was never going to be a fit at SS.

[SpikedLemonade]

I would have thought we have enough invested on the D side of the ball.

Then again, it would appear Buddy Nix is still too chicken **** to draft a QB.

Oh well maybe next year.

[DraftBoy]

I would have thought we have enough invested on the D side of the ball.

Then again, it would appear Buddy Nix is still too chicken **** to draft a QB.

Oh well maybe next year.

How? We have a good DL but almost nothing else.

[coastal]

So we have to draft players to fit yet another new scheme?

John McCargo anyone?

- - - Updated - - -


How? We have a good DL.:rofl:

[SpikedLemonade]

How? We have a good DL but almost nothing else.

Our 1st round pick last year was a CB and our only franchised player is a S.

I bet we have over 2/3s of our salary expenditure on the D side of the ball.

[DraftBoy]

Our 1st round pick last year was a CB and our only franchised player is a S.

I bet we have over 2/3s of our salary expenditure on the D side of the ball.

A CB who has yet to show he's shutdown and our franchise player that is only tendered.

We could have 9/10 of our expenditures on the D side of the ball, doesn't mean its set or close to.

- - - Updated - - -


So we have to draft players to fit yet another new scheme?

What do you you think bringing in a new coach means?

[coastal]

What do you you think bringing in a new coach means?
another 3 year rebuild apparently.

[DraftBoy]

another 3 year rebuild apparently.

Ummm....yes, we have established that a long time ago.

[coastal]

Ummm....yes, we have established that a long time ago.
I'm sure "we" have...

carry on with the DB fetish thread.

[DraftBoy]

I'm sure "we" have...

carry on with the DB fetish thread.

I'm sorry you don't realize that new coaches, means new schemes, and new personnel that need to be found. You're welcome for the update.

[coastal]

I'm sorry you don't realize that new coaches, means new schemes, and new personnel that need to be found. You're welcome for the update.
Talk to you about hope and change in another 3 years.

[DraftBoy]

Talk to you about hope and change in another 3 years.

Could be, there are no guarantees.

[swiper]

I wonder if the Bills have "their" guy targeted for round one at this point. Assuming, of course, that player was still available.

Maybe better-worded: I wonder if they have their short list ready at this point.

[coastal]

Could be, there are no guarantees.
There isn't a safer bet in Vegas.

[Mr. Pink]

Because those people understand what the SS is in our new defensive scheme. He's basically gotta be a Bandit and that's not an easy fit. That's why you see OLB prospects like Collins and Jordan who can run or big SAF's who can run and tackle Vaccaro, Taylor, etc.

Also why a guy like Searcy, who is unbelievably overrated by this fan base, was never going to be a fit at SS.

Searcy is good against the run but a huge liability against the pass.

I really don't understand what the vitriol would be if we took Vaccaro to be honest. We play in division and league now where the tight ends are so talented/good you need guys that can cover them. Hernandez/Gronk would eat Searcy alive.

I'm pretty sure Barron would have been the pick last year if the Bucs didn't take him which is another part of the reason, on top of Searcy being garbage against the pass, that Vaccaro wouldn't shock me if picked.

[YardRat]

Wtf is wrong with you?

Nothing...I'm starting to zero in two guys at 8...Warmack or Vaccaro.

We signed DT Branch and DE's Williams/Anderson the last two FA periods, and we have a few others are versatile (KW and Dareus) so we're not going there. We signed Lawson and there isn't another LB in the draft that could be expected to make the kind of impact a #8 should. We drafted Gilmore/Brooks high last year and re-signed McKelvin so CB isn't going to be the pick. IMO that pretty much narrows the list down to one position on defense as a possibility, and that's safety.

Offensively there are a lot of needs but...the top 2, maybe 3, OT's are going to be gone before 8. TE and RB isn't happening that high. WR's a maybe, but like LBer I don't think there's a guy available that is going to contribute immediately and have major question marks that the team would be willing to risk the pick on. QB, obviously, but I'm hoping some sanity prevails and they don't get within 100 yards of one 8. That leaves guard, and if Warmack is on the board you have to at least consider him.

Warmack or Vaccaro in the first. QB in the second. BPA LBers, WR's, Oline and, yes, probably another CB sprinkled in for the rest of the draft.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm thinking Vaccaro or Cordarelle in the first myself.

I don't see us going with anything else at this point.

We'll likely go QB in the second and take Nassib or Manuel.

[coastal]

I think we should go Vaccaro at 8 and trade backup for Rhodes when he starts to drop because he speaks the same dialect of marble mouth as Leodis.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

A CB who has yet to show he's shutdown and our franchise player that is only tendered.

We could have 9/10 of our expenditures on the D side of the ball, doesn't mean its set or close to.

But it does mean we've been throwing good money after bad for years. If any other competent franchise had spent this much money and draft value to produce a historically bad defense for three straight years, the GM would be chased out of town by an angry mob.

Cookie G broke it down a while back and it was scary. The players we've passed up because we needed players to fit our endless scheme changes (Cover 2 -> 3-4 -> Hybrid -> Conservative 4-3 -> 3-4) could have built one of the highest octane offenses in the league - and our defense couldn't have been much worse if we tried.

[cookie G]

Christ.

Oh now, you knew it was coming, dear.

The "hybnrid scheme" arguments.

The "SS is extremely important to the scheme" arguments.

The "He's a SS" arguments.

The "you have to take a rock solid prospect at 8 who is going to make your team better" routine.

Since someone decided to bring him up...

It's the perfect time to play Where in the World is Kenny Vaccaro?

He was spotted at Stillwater...

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TRY5wqDxNJE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

His run stopping abilities really showed here...he made Joe Randle look like Barry Sanders. Gained nearly 200 yards in that game.

Luckily for Texas, their offense showed up in that game and was able to overcome the 36 pts given up by Vaccaro's Wild Bunch.

[cookie G]

Move on to Austin and the meeting with the Mountaineers...and the pummeling of the Texas defense therein.

Was there an appearance?

His press agent claimed he was busy shutting down Tayvon Austin (who had 10 catches for 100 yards in the game).

But he can be spotted.

Watch the Donte Whitneresque tackle at .40 on Buie, who ran for 200 yards in the game.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JZIPVEgzBik?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Better yet at around 2:00...watch him battle it out with the 5'7" 115 lb. Tayvon Austin at the LOS on another 20 run by Buie.

Another Saturday afternoon embarassment for the Burnt Orange.

[SpikedLemonade]

another 3 year rebuild apparently.

Let's do it right this time.

2-14.

Do we really care if we beat the Jags, Dolphins and Chiefs in a 5-11 season?

Would you not much rather be staring at the 1st pick overall in 2014 with the hope of finally acquiring a franchise QB?

Franchise QB.

New owner.

New CEO and GM.

Now that gives me hope.

[cookie G]

The travels continue to Dallas...was he spotted as the Sooners pounded Texas into dust?

Yes he was!!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SRoDtn6TfjA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Watch the 95 yard run...he's got at least 7-8 yards of cushion as he watches a draw play...and STILL picks the wrong hole.

The rest of the game, in which Oklahoma put up an astounding 63 points and nearly 700 yards of offense...he can be seen chasing from behind.

I think he was still shutting down Tayvon Austin in the Oklahoma game.

[SpikedLemonade]

I think we should go Vaccaro at 8 and trade backup for Rhodes when he starts to drop because he speaks the same dialect of marble mouth as Leodis.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMADJcimnds

[cookie G]

On to Manhattan....Big 12 conference title is on the line.

To be fair, he showed up in the first half, in what was a close game...and held Kansas State to 7 points at the half.

But you knew it couldn't last.

Let's see if we can find him in the 2nd half.. where the Cats scored 35 points....

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/McT2kqflgyI?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Big players make big plays in big games.

Yep...that's the guy you want to use the 8th pick in the draft on....

-the run supporting big ass SS from a team that gave up 200 yards on the ground per game...and finished out of the top 100 in rush defense in the NCAA.

-the leader of a defense that was utterly embarassed by every decent Big 12 offense;

-the guy with big play abilities and a whopping 2 ints last year.

But at least he fits the scheme.

[DraftBoy]

But it does mean we've been throwing good money after bad for years. If any other competent franchise had spent this much money and draft value to produce a historically bad defense for three straight years, the GM would be chased out of town by an angry mob.

Cookie G broke it down a while back and it was scary. The players we've passed up because we needed players to fit our endless scheme changes (Cover 2 -> 3-4 -> Hybrid -> Conservative 4-3 -> 3-4) could have built one of the highest octane offenses in the league - and our defense couldn't have been much worse if we tried.

That doesn't change the point. Nobody is arguing we've been effective or efficient at spending money correctly.

[coastal]

Gil just mopped this thread up.

go home boys... its all over.

[DraftBoy]

Oh now, you knew it was coming, dear.

The "hybnrid scheme" arguments.

The "SS is extremely important to the scheme" arguments.

The "He's a SS" arguments.

The "you have to take a rock solid prospect at 8 who is going to make your team better" routine.

Since someone decided to bring him up...

It's the perfect time to play Where in the World is Kenny Vaccaro?

He was spotted at Stillwater...

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TRY5wqDxNJE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

His run stopping abilities really showed here...he made Joe Randle look like Barry Sanders. Gained nearly 200 yards in that game.

Luckily for Texas, their offense showed up in that game and was able to overcome the 36 pts given up by Vaccaro's Wild Bunch.

Come on, you're better than this horribly flawed way of trying to make a point. How about the shed and TFL just earlier in this same drive when lined up as NB?

[DraftBoy]

On to Manhattan....Big 12 conference title is on the line.

To be fair, he showed up in the first half, in what was a close game...and held Kansas State to 7 points at the half.

But you knew it couldn't last.

Let's see if we can find him in the 2nd half.. where the Cats scored 35 points....

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/McT2kqflgyI?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Big players make big plays in big games.

Yep...that's the guy you want to use the 8th pick in the draft on....

-the run supporting big ass SS from a team that gave up 200 yards on the ground per game...and finished out of the top 100 in rush defense in the NCAA.

-the leader of a defense that was utterly embarassed by every decent Big 12 offense;

-the guy with big play abilities and a whopping 2 ints last year.

But at least he fits the scheme.

The stick off the option multiple times coming up from out of the box.

- - - Updated - - -


Move on to Austin and the meeting with the Mountaineers...and the pummeling of the Texas defense therein.

Was there an appearance?

His press agent claimed he was busy shutting down Tayvon Austin (who had 10 catches for 100 yards in the game).

But he can be spotted.

Watch the Donte Whitneresque tackle at .40 on Buie, who ran for 200 yards in the game.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JZIPVEgzBik?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Better yet at around 2:00...watch him battle it out with the 5'7" 115 lb. Tayvon Austin at the LOS on another 20 run by Buie.

Another Saturday afternoon embarassment for the Burnt Orange.

Chasing down Austin from the NB spot across the field on the sweep option.

[BertSquirtgum]

Id rather see the Bills take Eifert than Vaccaro at 8. Blah to both.

[DraftBoy]

My point being its both dishonest and ridiculous to cite single plays in a game (especially when using another players highlight tape) and then act like a team defensive failure is all on that one player.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That doesn't change the point. Nobody is arguing we've been effective or efficient at spending money correctly.

No, but the article in the OP is arguing that we should continue down the same road, which I think is folly.

[Mouldsie]

Didn't Texas have it's worst defense in school history last year? To me thats a problem for everyone that played on it.

[YardRat]

:rofl:

"Oh, look...Six plays on youtube that prove inconclusively that this guy sucks."

'Mopped up the thread' my ass...

[Mouldsie]

I think we should go Vaccaro at 8 and trade backup for Rhodes when he starts to drop because he speaks the same dialect of marble mouth as Leodis.
They say intelligence is overrated in a prospect..... but have you ever noticed that most of the leagues stars are pretty bright individuals?

And I'm not saying wonderlic = intelligence or even speaking ability = intelligene automatically.

But Darrelle Revis, Nnamdi Asomougha, Richard Sherman, Antoine Winfield, Charles Tillman, Ladarius Webb, Troy Polamalu, Ed Reed.... these are thoightful well spoken people. Even T.O. and Moss and Ocho Cinco the classic headcases were very smart just misguided


/ OT ramble

[Mouldsie]

All I know is, Safeties that can run 4.65 are rare. And it's well known that most dynasties began by selecting a S in the top 10 of the draft.

[kingJofNYC]

Didn't want a Barron last year, and I don't want Vaccaro this year, even though I like him a bit more than Barron, but I'm not going to pretend like the fools at 1 Bills Drive feel the same way. Few if any are advocating selecting a S with the 8th pick, some of us however realize that it's a distinct possibility.

Basically, don't kill the messenger.

[Raptor]

Didn't want a Barron last year, and I don't want Vaccaro this year, even though I like him a bit more than Barron, but I'm not going to pretend like the fools at 1 Bills Drive feel the same way. Few if any are advocating selecting a S with the 8th pick, some of us however realize that it's a distinct possibility.

Basically, don't kill the messenger.


+1

Like I said in the other thread what we want or think is going to happen is irrelevant. 11 days out its all about what this team is going to do and just like in my other thread, if you dont think Vaccaro has a very good shot at being the pick at 8 you really havent been paying attention to this team the past decade

[DraftBoy]

No, but the article in the OP is arguing that we should continue down the same road, which I think is folly.

I don't think its the same road considering how drastically this D is changing from what is was under Gailey and his many DC's. The D is changing far more than the Offense is and the SS in Pettine's D is vital.

[k-oneputt]

There are 3 guys that play at Georgia alone you can get in the middle of the draft to play safety.

Taking a safety at #8 is just plain stupid.

You draft in the top-10 you don't take a damn safety.

[DraftBoy]

There are 3 guys that play at Georgia alone you can get in the middle of the draft to play safety.

Taking a safety at #8 is just plain stupid.

You draft in the top-10 you don't take a damn safety.

Unfortunately only one of them fits in Williams.

[k-oneputt]

Take Williams then in the middle of the draft.

[DraftBoy]

Take Williams then in the middle of the draft.

I'd like him later but could live with that.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I don't think its the same road considering how drastically this D is changing from what is was under Gailey and his many DC's. The D is changing far more than the Offense is and the SS in Pettine's D is vital.

Right, the defense, which is where we have been investing a massive amount of picks and money, is changing dramatically so we have to keep spending picks and money just to tread water. Instead of building a defense around our other Top 15 picks or big dollar players, we are playing many of them out of position and likely drafting another Top 10 player to join them.

[cookie G]

Come on, you're better than this horribly flawed way of trying to make a point.

Yep...showing just how bad that defense was, and what he contributed to it's badness, is somehow flawed.

36
42
49
63

That's the points Texas gave up in those games. ( I didn't throw in the Baylor game, where they gave up 50). The highlights...and unfortunate for Texas are two fold....1) what did he do to prevent these massacres and 2) Did he contribute to them being massacres? There were answers to both, and neither was in his favor.




How about the shed and TFL just earlier in this same drive when lined up as NB?

You know what it means when a guy stops a RB for a 2 yard loss on one play and then misses him on a 76 yard TD on the next?

It means the RB has 2 carries for 74 yards and 1 TD, a 37 YPC average;
It means the offense had a 2 play, 76 yard scoring drive.

We have enough of those guys on our defense as it is.

[DraftBoy]

Yep...showing just how bad that defense was, and what he contributed to it's badness, is somehow flawed.

36
42
49
63

That's the points Texas gave up in those games. ( I didn't throw in the Baylor game, where they gave up 50). The highlights...and unfortunate for Texas are two fold....1) what did he do to prevent these massacres and 2) Did he contribute to them being massacres? There were answers to both, and neither was in his favor.

Are you really going to argue one player is responsible for a defense that lacked talent and one that you claimed lacked coaching? You can't have this both ways. He made plays, I'm sorry those plays weren't big enough for make up for 10 other players who couldn't. When you find that player, let us all know.




You know what it means when a guy stops a RB for a 2 yard loss on one play and then misses him on a 76 yard TD on the next?

Yea that your front seven suck ass, since when is it the SS's job to make a tackle on every running play? Does he miss some tackles? Sure, but let's not act like a single play matters in the terms of evaluating a player as a whole. Your entire premise is completely flawed and what's worse is that you know it.

[Fixxxer]

I think this is an article that was written to see the reaction among fans, everyone is talking QB or WR, so they do this to be different and get some interenet visits and there is nothing wrong with it. Just saying

[cookie G]

Are you really going to argue one player is responsible for a defense that lacked talent and one that you claimed lacked coaching? You can't have this both ways. He made plays, I'm sorry those plays weren't big enough for make up for 10 other players who couldn't. When you find that player, let us all know.

I'm not the one that said the they lacked talent....discipline and brains...there's a difference.

Any moron can hit a QB in the backfield when they aren't blocked. It doesn't matter when the QB pitches the ball for a TD before he gets there.

Being able to diagnose a play...understanding angles...being aware of misdirection...., that's a different area.

Tried to tell you that about Texas' defense last fall...they were bad because they weren't the brightest bulbs on the field. Sucked into misdirection, confused by audibles, not bright enough to recognise a draw play...that's how most big plays

And he fit right in with them. A major contributor in that regard.








Yea that your front seven suck ass, since when is it the SS's job to make a tackle on every running play? Does he miss some tackles? Sure, but let's not act like a single play matters in the terms of evaluating a player as a whole. Your entire premise is completely flawed and what's worse is that you know it.

Yep..when he runs in the backfield and hits someone...he's awesome. When his jock is left on the field by a RB, its everyone else's fault...gotcha.

Now...do you have anything besides "He's a SS and we need a SS" and "it's not HIS fault"?

I posted 4 games and said.."where is he?" I actually watched those games and am still waiting to see the "playmaker".

To which you've come back and said "Hey!, that's not fair!"


Well....?

Do you have anything of real value to show why he should be chosen over some 400 or so other college prospects at No. 8?

Something real...not some generic "he fits the scheme", routine.

[coastal]

He's Troy Polamureed?