when exactly is the right time to pick a qb when you suck for 15 years?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

so we keep picking in the top 10 for almost 15 years...

we dont have a qb

there are solid qbs to choose from

so if not now, when the hell are we supposed to?

we wont get the top pick, so an elway/luck situation will never happen.

and if you miss, dont you still have to take a qb again?

SO again, if not now, when the hell are we supposed to?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

people that dont agree with this, ask yourself this...

is it realistically possible to get a big time qb if you never pick one high in the 1st?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Just because we need a QB doesn't mean there's automatically a franchise QB worthy of the pick.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Just because we need a QB doesn't mean there's automatically a franchise QB worthy of the pick.

there is never an automatic franchise qb, just guys that are rated super high like luck or rg3, and then guys rated lower but solid qbs who could be a top 10 qb or late 1st qb... but that value is relative to need...

ie, matt ryan, jay cutler, drew brees, andy dalton, kaepernick, wilson, etc etc etc... many of those qbs are in that area, so why not take one. the argument of, well, hes not a " franchise qb" and lets wait till next year or the 2nd are not working man

[NOT THE DUDE...]

people keep saying these qbs are not worthy, why? i mean, form a real substance standpoint, what is so different about matt barkley and andy dalton or matt ryan? or even matt stafford....?

stafford was not the blue chip luck qb, and many many lions fans didnt want him. yet they bit the bullett and took him....

i see this as very similar.

miami paid a huge price for not taking " the sure fire franchise qb matt ryan"

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this is a media line, and in the end, i bet 4 qbs go rd 1...

[SpikedLemonade]

VALUE buddy VALUE.

If you can get a piece of dog **** at the 28th pick rather than the 8th pick, you just know that the dog **** will taste better.

[Joe Fo Sho]

there is never an automatic franchise qb, just guys that are rated super high like luck or rg3, and then guys rated lower but solid qbs who could be a top 10 qb or late 1st qb... but that value is relative to need...

ie, matt ryan, jay cutler, drew brees, andy dalton, kaepernick, wilson, etc etc etc... many of those qbs are in that area, so why not take one. the argument of, well, hes not a " franchise qb" and lets wait till next year or the 2nd are not working man

Of the QBs you just names...Brees, Dalton, Kaepernick, and Wilson weren't 1st round picks.

In the 1999 NFL Draft - Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown were all taken within the 1st 12 picks. There's just as many busts as there are studs in the 1st round, if not more. It's all about getting value out of your draft picks, that's what the good teams do.

[SpikedLemonade]

It's all about getting value out of your draft picks, that's what the good teams do.

I just came.

[swiper]

so we keep picking in the top 10 for almost 15 years...

we dont have a qb

there are solid qbs to choose from

so if not now, when the hell are we supposed to?

we wont get the top pick, so an elway/luck situation will never happen.

and if you miss, dont you still have to take a qb again?



No there aren't. Worst QB draft in years. There have been multiple drafts in the past where no QB is taken in round 1. This might be one. Or, perhaps, you want a Tony Eason?

You don't just take a bad QB for the sake of taking any QB.

[BillsFever21]

If they take a QB at #8 I won't be thrilled but I won't be pissed either. If they think he can be a franchise QB then I can live with it. If they had a chance to trade down a little bit and pick up an extra pick in the process and still get one of them then I would be pissed. Unfortunately we wouldn't know what kind of calls or offers was going on in the war room.

I'm not sold on Geno Smith but he is the consensus top rated QB in the draft. If he is still available at #8 and/or there isn't any other QB's off the board and they have first dibs they have to take one. It would be worse to pass on one and see them become a star then draft one and see him become a bust while you're still looking for a QB. Especially if you didn't get a good one in the second round.

With the Jets trading Revis I see them almost surely taking a QB now with the one of them picks in the draft. After the Top 10 there isn't really any teams that need a QB the rest of the first round. You could maybe get a surprise team like the Texans or MAYBE even the Chargers if the new coach isn't sold on him for the long-term but that would be it unless some other teams in the early second round trades up into the first round.

My guess is there will be two QB's taken in the first round with maybe three at the very most. After that you will probably see one or two of them taking in the second round. If we could trade down and pick up an extra pick and still get a QB you would be crazy not to. Since we need a QB as bad as we do I won't be pissed if they take one at #8 though. I just don't trust this front office making the right decision. I guess we'll find out in 4 days.

[ServoBillieves]

It's always 50/50. There will always be sides to every argument and one will eventually get louder 3 years down the road.

As the Bills, the SECOND you make a selection, there will be over 50% of the fans angry about it at the 8th pick.

If you draft a sure fire hit at 8 with a QB, you're golden and look like a genius. If not, you're told we should have waited til later rounds for the talent it was there.
If you wait to draft a QB and he turns out great, you're golden and look like a genius. If not, you're told we should have taken the sure fire hit at 8 overall.

[swiper]

Of the QBs you just names...Brees, Dalton, Kaepernick, and Wilson weren't 1st round picks.

In the 1999 NFL Draft - Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown were all taken within the 1st 12 picks. There's just as many busts as there are studs in the 1st round, if not more. It's all about getting value out of your draft picks, that's what the good teams do.

There's more busts. Again.... Tony Eason was supposed to be can't miss. Like Luck. Much better than any of the garbage in this draft. He became nothing. Ryan Leaf. Akili Smith. DeMarcus Russell. All supposed to be franchise QBs. None of the QBs coming out this year are being heralded like ANY of those busts.

[swiper]

It's always 50/50. There will always be sides to every argument and one will eventually get louder 3 years down the road.

As the Bills, the SECOND you make a selection, there will be over 50% of the fans angry about it at the 8th pick.

If you draft a sure fire hit at 8 with a QB, you're golden and look like a genius. If not, you're told we should have waited til later rounds for the talent it was there.
If you wait to draft a QB and he turns out great, you're golden and look like a genius. If not, you're told we should have taken the sure fire hit at 8 overall.

IDK. I won't be happy, most likely, if they take a QB at #8. But... I'm expecting it.

I remember when everyone thought the Bills got such a great deal getting Trent Edwards where they did. All the write-ups liked the pick. That was in the beginning. Until he sucked it up.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Of the QBs you just names...Brees, Dalton, Kaepernick, and Wilson weren't 1st round picks.

In the 1999 NFL Draft - Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown were all taken within the 1st 12 picks. There's just as many busts as there are studs in the 1st round, if not more. It's all about getting value out of your draft picks, that's what the good teams do.

supply and demand, and just because you take a chance on cade mcnown, and he busts, that doesnt mean you stop taking chances... i dont get this. from a real substantive point of view, i see literally no difference between barkley and matt ryan. and even if you value him less, like a andy dalton, i think given our situation( supply and demand), you have to take him at 8... i mean, why risk it and then end up with nobody...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Of the QBs you just names...Brees, Dalton, Kaepernick, and Wilson weren't 1st round picks.

In the 1999 NFL Draft - Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper and Cade McNown were all taken within the 1st 12 picks. There's just as many busts as there are studs in the 1st round, if not more. It's all about getting value out of your draft picks, that's what the good teams do.


but the nfl has changed, and qbs with that grade, like a ponder for example or locker/tannehill, are going higher... which gives more reason to take a qb at 8

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No there aren't. Worst QB draft in years. There have been multiple drafts in the past where no QB is taken in round 1. This might be one. Or, perhaps, you want a Tony Eason?

You don't just take a bad QB for the sake of taking any QB.

why is geno and barkley or even glennon " bad"...lol was flacco bad???

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I just came.

all of that value stuff does matter, but doesnt matter until you get the qb position fixed.... sad but true

[NOT THE DUDE...]

If they take a QB at #8 I won't be thrilled but I won't be pissed either. If they think he can be a franchise QB then I can live with it. If they had a chance to trade down a little bit and pick up an extra pick in the process and still get one of them then I would be pissed. Unfortunately we wouldn't know what kind of calls or offers was going on in the war room.

I'm not sold on Geno Smith but he is the consensus top rated QB in the draft. If he is still available at #8 and/or there isn't any other QB's off the board and they have first dibs they have to take one. It would be worse to pass on one and see them become a star then draft one and see him become a bust while you're still looking for a QB. Especially if you didn't get a good one in the second round.

With the Jets trading Revis I see them almost surely taking a QB now with the one of them picks in the draft. After the Top 10 there isn't really any teams that need a QB the rest of the first round. You could maybe get a surprise team like the Texans or MAYBE even the Chargers if the new coach isn't sold on him for the long-term but that would be it unless some other teams in the early second round trades up into the first round.

My guess is there will be two QB's taken in the first round with maybe three at the very most. After that you will probably see one or two of them taking in the second round. If we could trade down and pick up an extra pick and still get a QB you would be crazy not to. Since we need a QB as bad as we do I won't be pissed if they take one at #8 though. I just don't trust this front office making the right decision. I guess we'll find out in 4 days.

since we have kolb, who has shown nice flashes, would you trade down say 10-15 spots or w/e and pick nassib/glennon/jones? assuming geno, barkley and manuel are gone by the 25th pick? that could be a solid plan... you are still getting a qb to develop and you get a couple extra high picks...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

but, imo barkley is a franchise type qb, and i would be really upset if they pass on a good qb yet again....

[Joe Fo Sho]

but the nfl has changed, and qbs with that grade, like a ponder for example or locker/tannehill, are going higher... which gives more reason to take a qb at 8

Just because crappy QBs are being taken higher in the draft doesn't mean we should be the ones to take them that high. There are QBs that can be had later in the draft.

In no way am I trying to say that we shouldn't draft a QB high. I'm just saying that if we do, he better damn well be worth it. It's the same thing I say for any position that we draft high. So far, very few of our picks have been worth it, and that's why we've sucked out loud for the last 13 years.

[BillsFever21]

since we have kolb, who has shown nice flashes, would you trade down say 10-15 spots or w/e and pick nassib/glennon/jones? assuming geno, barkley and manuel are gone by the 25th pick? that could be a solid plan... you are still getting a qb to develop and you get a couple extra high picks...

Kolb isn't even in my thinking on QB strategy and he shouldn't be. At the best he shouldn't be anymore then a 1 year plan or somebody to keep the seat warm till he gets injured in a month or two and then the rookie can take over if he's ready. He is lousy injury prone QB that may have shown flashes for a couple games. That may be alright if we were talking about a young QB in his 2nd year or so but this guy has been in the league for 6 years now.

Back to the original question. None of these QB's have separated themselves as blue chip prospects that you can't pass on. Even having the discussion that we could have first dibs of the QB's at #8 answers that question. If any of them were blue chip prospects then teams would be looking to trade up to #1 and grab them if KC didn't have any interest in them.

I would gladly trade down 10-15 spots and get some extra high draft picks to try and build a semblance of a competitive NFL roster for the future. The order these guys get drafted in is going to depend on the team. It's not like in the years past when everyone would've had Luck/RG3 as the top two QB's, etc. Some teams who have Smith/Barkley as their top two QB's may only be the 3rd choice for many other teams. It's such a wash with this group of QB's it will depend on what the team is looking for.

Then considering who is drafting after the Jets there aren't any teams in a desperate need of a QB. We could probably easily trade back to around 20 and get one of our top two guys. Unless the Bills felt there was only that one QB on the board who could be a good NFL QB then it would be insane not to take the draft picks.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Kolb isn't even in my thinking on QB strategy and he shouldn't be. At the best he shouldn't be anymore then a 1 year plan or somebody to keep the seat warm till he gets injured in a month or two and then the rookie can take over if he's ready. He is lousy injury prone QB that may have shown flashes for a couple games. That may be alright if we were talking about a young QB in his 2nd year or so but this guy has been in the league for 6 years now.

Back to the original question. None of these QB's have separated themselves as blue chip prospects that you can't pass on. Even having the discussion that we could have first dibs of the QB's at #8 answers that question. If any of them were blue chip prospects then teams would be looking to trade up to #1 and grab them if KC didn't have any interest in them.

I would gladly trade down 10-15 spots and get some extra high draft picks to try and build a semblance of a competitive NFL roster for the future. The order these guys get drafted in is going to depend on the team. It's not like in the years past when everyone would've had Luck/RG3 as the top two QB's, etc. Some teams who have Smith/Barkley as their top two QB's may only be the 3rd choice for many other teams. It's such a wash with this group of QB's it will depend on what the team is looking for.

Then considering who is drafting after the Jets there aren't any teams in a desperate need of a QB. We could probably easily trade back to around 20 and get one of our top two guys. Unless the Bills felt there was only that one QB on the board who could be a good NFL QB then it would be insane not to take the draft picks.

why is geno not as good as rg3 and barkley not as good as say matt ryan? is it just different because mayock says so?

[jimbohastle51]

When you have a top 10 pick already and there are two sure fire passers coming out in the same year. What you do is trade your top 10 pick and your following years first round pick and move up to the 1st or 2nd spot and take one.

Then again the redskins did that last year and really who wants RG3 over stefon Gilmore? And obviously in this "deep" draft the redskins are wishing they still had that second 1st round pick instead of RG3. (SARCASM!)

[YardRat]

Sucking for 15 years has nothing to do with timing and picking a QB.

[better days]

Sucking for 15 years has nothing to do with timing and picking a QB.

Sucking for 15 years has EVERYTHING to do with NOT having a GOOD QB. The lack of a GOOD QB is the BIGGEST failure of Nix IMO.

[trapezeus]

a good time to take a qb is when:

1/ there is a good qb to take
2/ you aren't starting with the entire team learning a new system.

[pmoon6]

Sucking for 15 years has EVERYTHING to do with NOT having a GOOD QB. The lack of a GOOD QB is the BIGGEST failure of Nix IMO.Drew Bledsoe was a good QB, but Buffalo fans didn't like him either. That was back when both lines were neglected.

I also marvel at the timeline going from 13 to 14 and now 15 years. Also is "sucking" going 2-14 or just not making the playoffs? Seems to be an arbitrary word, so is "good QB". Is a quarterback who is better than half the league, at least statistically a "Bad" QB? Because that's what Fitzpatrick was. Did he need to go, sure. A new coach usually means a new QB and starting fresh. I also don't put last years failure on his shoulders. It's on Gailey and the coaching staff. They lost the team around the 9th game. They seemed to just be going through the motions, no passion or drive.

At the end of the day, I think a lot of Bills' Nation have become so jaded and now have a defeatist attitude. I mean, the doom and gloom has set in even before the draft. Some even WANT us to go in the toilet this season so we can draft in the top three.

Dark days in Buffalo.

[better days]

Drew Bledsoe was a good QB, but Buffalo fans didn't like him either. That was back when both lines were neglected.

I also marvel at the timeline going from 13 to 14 and now 15 years. Also is "sucking" going 2-14 or just not making the playoffs? Seems to be an arbitrary word, so is "good QB". Is a quarterback who is better than half the league, at least statistically a "Bad" QB? Because that's what Fitzpatrick was. Did he need to go, sure. A new coach usually means a new QB and starting fresh. I also don't put last years failure on his shoulders. It's on Gailey and the coaching staff. They lost the team around the 9th game. They seemed to just be going through the motions, no passion or drive.

At the end of the day, I think a lot of Bills' Nation have become so jaded and now have a defeatist attitude. I mean, the doom and gloom has set in even before the draft. Some even WANT us to go in the toilet this season so we can draft in the top three.

Dark days in Buffalo.

I agree, the Bills losing is on the Coaching staff more than Fitz, BUT Fitz was & is nothing more than a BACKUP QB. He did not want to restructure his contract so he had to go. I blame Wanny & his defense for most of the failure last year, the players are MUCH better than they played in his system IMO.

I also agree about the defeatest attitude of many fans. IMO the Bills have the talent to win 8-9 games so if they win 6 or less, It will be the coaching more than anything to blame.

The Bills NEED to win to get the losing monkey off the backs of Bills fans.

Buffalo native & former Card, Ron Wolfley thinks Kolb can be a GOOD QB...................if he can stay healthy.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Drew Bledsoe was a good QB, but Buffalo fans didn't like him either. That was back when both lines were neglected.

I also marvel at the timeline going from 13 to 14 and now 15 years. Also is "sucking" going 2-14 or just not making the playoffs? Seems to be an arbitrary word, so is "good QB". Is a quarterback who is better than half the league, at least statistically a "Bad" QB? Because that's what Fitzpatrick was. Did he need to go, sure. A new coach usually means a new QB and starting fresh. I also don't put last years failure on his shoulders. It's on Gailey and the coaching staff. They lost the team around the 9th game. They seemed to just be going through the motions, no passion or drive.


At the end of the day, I think a lot of Bills' Nation have become so jaded and now have a defeatist attitude. I mean, the doom and gloom has set in even before the draft. Some even WANT us to go in the toilet this season so we can draft in the top three.

Dark days in Buffalo.

with good reason, we havent been to the playoffs since the 99 season....??? really? are we supposed to be delusional?

[pmoon6]

with good reason, we havent been to the playoffs since the 99 season....??? really? are we supposed to be delusional?No, but at least the bellyaching of supposedly grown men should be kept to a minimum.

[pmoon6]

I agree, the Bills losing is on the Coaching staff more than Fitz, BUT Fitz was & is nothing more than a BACKUP QB. He did not want to restructure his contract so he had to go. I blame Wanny & his defense for most of the failure last year, the players are MUCH better than they played in his system IMO.

I also agree about the defeatest attitude of many fans. IMO the Bills have the talent to win 8-9 games so if they win 6 or less, It will be the coaching more than anything to blame.

The Bills NEED to win to get the losing monkey off the backs of Bills fans.

Buffalo native & former Card, Ron Wolfley thinks Kolb can be a GOOD QB...................if he can stay healthy.Well, that's the whole question, isn't it. Kolb hasn't made it through a season without getting hurt.

[YardRat]

Sucking for 15 years has EVERYTHING to do with NOT having a GOOD QB. The lack of a GOOD QB is the BIGGEST failure of Nix IMO.

So what about the 12 seasons before Nix?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

No, but at least the bellyaching of supposedly grown men should be kept to a minimum.


i think its just frustration man. it adds to the fire when you see these 3-4 qbs the bills could have taken have great success.... i mean, if barkley and geno are on the board, and we dont take them, im not really sure what else we can do? we are not picking in the top 3 next year, so like i said, if not now, when?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

at some god damn point, you need to just take the qb... flacco, was a classic example of baltimore taking a risk, even after boller busted

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like i said, there is only 1 way to guarantee you never get a franchise qb, and thats by not taking one in the 1st rd ever...

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Always.

You can-- and SHOULD-- draft QBs in close proximity. Washington drafted both RG3 and Cousins, and it paid off. Carolina drafting Jimmy Clausen didn't stop them from taking Newton the next year. Compare that to Buffalo, where they've drafted three in the past decade: Losman, Edwards, and Levi Brown. Is it any wonder why they're having so much trouble? No talent is coming down the pipeline and being developed from scratch.

[Night Train]

http://cdn2.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/ClausenPunched_1.jpg

[NOT THE DUDE...]

http://cdn2.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/ClausenPunched_1.jpg

so when one qb busts or w/e this means we should never take a qb again... great, now we can suck for another 15 years...