Matt Barkley: Should be the Pick at 8

[Mahdi]

I have been watching everything I can on this kid and from what I have seen there is no reason why the Bills shouldn't pick Barkley at 8 if they want to turn this franchise around.

We need a QB, he has a lot of talent, good size and a good enough arm. Everyone said Drew Brees and Matt Ryan also had weak arms but that has certainly not been the case.

This is what I see from Barkley:


Basically he is for me the most talented thrower in the QB class. His accuracy is just one of the things I love about his throws, he can put the football anywhere he wants and often puts the ball in the perfect spot to allow his receiver to run after the catch. His throws to his RBs are flawless and puts the perfect touch on his swing passes his RB needs to explode forward and never has to worry about reaching for the pass. He throws very receiver friendly passes.

That brings me to his touch, I don't think you can be a much better touch thrower than Barkley. The guy uses his touch and accuracy to drop the ball over the correct shoulder of his receivers downfield easily. This is what I like about him most, his receivers don't even have to win with speed because his throws can be placed only where the receiver can catch it. Probably the best red zone thrower in this class which is another huge plus as making throws in compressed red zone situations is often the hardest thing for a young QB.

Arm strength --- Barkley has more than enough. I have seen him on several occasions just flick his wrist and the ball travels 40 yards downfield. I really don't think there is a throw Barkley can't make. I would have liked to see more seem throws from him but I think that has more to do with the offense Kiffin calls than Barkley not being able to hit it. Still, he hit enough of them for me to know he can if he wants.

Barkley is not a runner, that is obvious, but he has great mobility. He moves well in the pocket and has great feel for pressure. Will step up and to the side when needed and keep his eyes downfield. Will also stand in and make the throw in the face of pressure. Can use different release points to create the completion, that is another think I like about him.

Lastly, Barkley is just a natural QB. He has been playing the position a long time at top programs and has a ton of experience. He is extremely smart, makes checks at the line and will often put his team in a good play. The kid just knows football and knows how to play QB. I think he is the closest thing to Drew Brees in this draft.

If Buffalo passes on this kid they are dumb. You cannot bank on the idea that someone as talented as him will be available in Rd. 2 or next year.

I would have loved to take guys like Austin, Mingo, Jones, Jordan or Ogletree at 8 but we need a QB and somehow Barkley, who we all would have loved to have 1 year ago, is available at 8 and we MUST take him.

People who think Nassib is anywhere near Barkley are insane to me or just throwing up smokescreens. Nassib has a nice release, quick and with lots of intent, but his touch is terrible. I like that he has a gun but I don't like his downfield accuracy. I think he can be a good QB but I don't think he is as talented as Barkley and won't be able to do the things Barkley can at the NFL level.

[Thurmal]

Agree 100%. Love his accuracy, demeanor, and pedigree.

[BertSquirtgum]

Agreed. I want Barkley at 8. He's very comparable to Drew Brees.

[Night Train]

If Buffalo passes on this kid they are dumb

:rolleyes: OK

His stats facing pressure aren't the greatest and despite many saying he's the most ready NFL guy, he isn't without concerns. (health,size,decision making and more) Of all the QB's mentioned at 8 (and I DON'T want a QB at 8 ) he's probably the one guy that wouldn't cause me to yell " reach "... but passing on a top OT,OG and waiting a year for a far better QB class isn't the worst idea.

I'd rather develop a guy with more natural talent,size etc. than try to build a 6 million dollar man out of a Fitz.

[Mahdi]

:rolleyes: OK

His stats facing pressure aren't the greatest and despite many saying he's the most ready NFL guy, he isn't without concerns. (health,size,decision making and more) Of all the QB's mentioned at 8 (and I DON'T want a QB at 8 ) he's probably the one guy that wouldn't cause me to yell " reach "... but passing on a top OT,OG and waiting a year for a far better QB class isn't the worst idea.

I'd rather develop a guy with more natural talent,size etc. than try to build a 6 million dollar man out of a Fitz.

Natural talent? This kid is loaded with natural talent. Just watch him play. His throws are impeccable. And as for his size, he's like 6'2 1/2 225... not everyone has to be Joe Flacco.

What makes you think we will get a top ten pick next year anyway? Maybe next year we pick 13th and once again not get in position to take the top rated QBs. What then? Wait till next year?

[DraftBoy]

My concerns with Barkley are that I feel he's limited. I think he's a NFL quality starter, but I'm not sure he's more than what Matt Schaub is. He's without a doubt a natural leader and a fierce competitor but physically he's limited and I wonder if his will to win can continue to trump his talent in the NFL as it did in HS and college. I've never watched Barkley make a throw and just go "Wow, look at that throw". That's not to say he's never made some great throws but just never wowed me in the games I saw.

His shoulder injury does bother me, as does the system, and his lack of experience putting throws into tight windows. All of that can be taught/dealt with but its a lot of concerns for a Top 10 pick.

For the record I have nearly identical concerns about Nassib.

[BertSquirtgum]

I'd rather develop a guy with more natural talent,size etc. than try to build a 6 million dollar man out of a Fitz.

No.

[madness]

Does any other QB in this draft meet the criteria under Parcells' rules?

[BertSquirtgum]

My concerns with Barkley are that I feel he's limited. I think he's a NFL quality starter, but I'm not sure he's more than what Matt Schaub is. He's without a doubt a natural leader and a fierce competitor but physically he's limited and I wonder if his will to win can continue to trump his talent in the NFL as it did in HS and college. I've never watched Barkley make a throw and just go "Wow, look at that throw". That's not to say he's never made some great throws but just never wowed me in the games I saw.

His shoulder injury does bother me, as does the system, and his lack of experience putting throws into tight windows. All of that can be taught/dealt with but its a lot of concerns for a Top 10 pick.

For the record I have nearly identical concerns about Nassib.

The Bills weren't worried about Jim Kelly's shoulder injury when they drafted him.

[Mr. Miyagi]

My rankings based on talent, ability, leadership quality and demeanor:

1. Barkley
2. Smith
3. Nassib
4. Wilson
5. Manuel
6. Jones
7. Bray
8. Glennon

[DraftBoy]

The Bills weren't worried about Jim Kelly's shoulder injury when they drafted him.

True, but I think its a wee bit premature to compare Barkley to Kelly. Especially considering we don't know the grade of Kelly's separation in 82 but we do know that Barkley suffered a Grade 3 separation meaning that both his AC and CC ligaments were completely torn in his shoulder.

Also keep in mind the Bills saw Kelly come back from his injury before investing anything more than a draft pick in him. They easily could of seen him struggle in the USFL and cost their losses. They don't have the same luxury here.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'm on board. It's Barkley at 8 or bust.

Feeling the wind just 3 days before the draft, I'm not sensing the Bills taking any other position at 8 other than QB.

[Night Train]

Feeling the wind just 3 days before the draft

Sure it's not the broccoli alfredo you had for lunch ?

[k-oneputt]

Don't worry the Bills will screw it up.

They will end up taking Nassib at #8.

Nassib was a mid round pick four months ago and know the Bills will make him a top ten pick. I must have missed all those great games he played over these last couple of months.

I would take both Barkley and Wilson over Nassib for the offense they will be running. I think they do have interest in Barkley though and I'm hoping it is more then Nassib.

I'm pretty confident the pick at #8 Thursday will be Nassib or Barkley.

[DraftBoy]

Don't worry the Bills will screw it up.

They will end up taking Nassib at #8.

Nassib was a mid round pick four months ago and know the Bills will make him a top ten pick. I must have missed all those great games he played over these last couple of months.

I would take both Barkley and Wilson over Nassib for the offense they will be running. I think they do have interest in Barkley though and I'm hoping it is more then Nassib.

I'm pretty confident the pick at #8 Thursday will be Nassib or Barkley.

Slight caveat to your Nassib theory...he never visited OBD on a pre-draft visit. If Buddy holds true to his trend then Nassib will not be our pick.

[k-oneputt]

Why would they need to waste on of their visits on him ?

The coaching staff already knows him better then any play in the draft.

[DraftBoy]

Why would they need to waste on of their visits on him ?

The coaching staff already knows him better then any play in the draft.

The coaching staff is not the one making the decision. They have input but the pick in the end is the Front Offices. I'm not saying he won't be picked for that reason but Buddy's trend is that he always has the 1st Round pick visit.

[k-oneputt]

So you are telling me if Marone and Hackett stand on the table and yell they want Nassib that Buddy will overrule them and take another qb ????

In Nassib's special situation I don't think the visit thing will even be a factor. In other years probably so.

[DraftBoy]

So you are telling me if Marone and Hackett stand on the table and yell they want Nassib that Buddy will overrule them and take another qb ????

In Nassib's special situation I don't think the visit thing will even be a factor. In other years probably so.

No what I'm saying is that Marrone and Hackett have input but in the end only one man makes the call and its not them. They get to give input just as Whaley does. How much Nix weighs it into his decision is something we just don't know.

[DraftBoy]

On the topic of Barkley from today on ESPN:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9192964/nfl-draft-matt-barkley-embraces-all

[MikeInRoch]

It will be a mistake to take Barkley at 8. I don't believe in his ability to perform under pressure.

The Bills, however, probably will do it. And he'll be just good enough to keep getting second chances instead of just dropping him and getting someone else.

[k-oneputt]

All I know is if Marone wants his college qb he had better be right for his sake or he will be looking for another job in 3 yrs.

[OpIv37]

It will be a mistake to take Barkley at 8. I don't believe in his ability to perform under pressure.

The Bills, however, probably will do it. And he'll be just good enough to keep getting second chances instead of just dropping him and getting someone else.

Well then he's perfect for Buffalo. We're never good enough for there to be any big games with pressure.

[Mahdi]

Don't worry the Bills will screw it up.

They will end up taking Nassib at #8.

Nassib was a mid round pick four months ago and know the Bills will make him a top ten pick. I must have missed all those great games he played over these last couple of months.

I would take both Barkley and Wilson over Nassib for the offense they will be running. I think they do have interest in Barkley though and I'm hoping it is more then Nassib.

I'm pretty confident the pick at #8 Thursday will be Nassib or Barkley.


I think they are deciding or have decided between two choices.

1. Pick Barkley at 8 and Woods or Hopkins at 41.


2. Pick Eifert or Austin at 8 and Nassib at 41.

[PTI]

Just hope to heck whoever they pick either beats out Kolb or does not play 1 game.

[DraftBoy]

All I know is if Marone wants his college qb he had better be right for his sake or he will be looking for another job in 3 yrs.

Very true, this is the very definition of putting all your eggs into one basket.

[trapezeus]

i like barkely at 8...mostly if the bills have traded out of the 8 spot.

this guy is going to make blaine gabbert look like a hall of famer.

[Historian]

How about Barkley at 8 and Nassib at 41.

Then field offers.

:D

[Mahdi]

On the topic of Barkley from today on ESPN:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9192964/nfl-draft-matt-barkley-embraces-all

Good read!

[trapezeus]

with the jets having two first rounders, i really don't think nassib will be there at 41. if there are still round 1 qb's after the jet's second pick, then i like our chances of getting our guy in the second

[Bill Cody]

yesterday Kolb reminded a poster of Aaron Rodgers, today it's Barkley is like Drew Brees. I need to head down to the pain clinic and get me some of that Columbian Gold so I can see these connections

[TacklingDummy]

Barkley is the only QB that's worth the gamble at #8.

[PTI]

Jets can't afford to take a QB early.

[ct bills fan]

Hopefully they find a trade partner in the first, trade down and egt Barkley later. Btw, do we know Barkley's wonderlic score? I see Nassib's is 41 (very high) but can't find Barkleys??

[trapezeus]

nassib just looks more and more the part on paper. if marrone wants him, i think i might be ok reaching for him at 8. the other guys all have a major knock in size, durability, competition played, winning percentage in big games. nassib is kind of ok in all these categories.

[ct bills fan]

Draftboy - I like reading your expertise on these players - you seem to do a ridiculous amount of research. Question for you: Wouldn't it make more sense for the Bills to draft a player like Tavon at #8 and see who's available in rd 2 at qb, or trade back into rd 1? What's your opinion on Tavon? Wouldn't having him and Spiller on the field together be a nightmare for opposing teams in the West Coast Offense, or would their skill sets be too redundant?

[Mahdi]

Draftboy - I like reading your expertise on these players - you seem to do a ridiculous amount of research. Question for you: Wouldn't it make more sense for the Bills to draft a player like Tavon at #8 and see who's available in rd 2 at qb, or trade back into rd 1? What's your opinion on Tavon? Wouldn't having him and Spiller on the field together be a nightmare for opposing teams in the West Coast Offense, or would their skill sets be too redundant?

Im not DB but I think having Spiller and Tavon is not redundant. One is in the backfield and the other is in the slot or outside. That means you have to key on both. Not to mention Johnson and Chandler.

That's the problem with defending the Pats. You have to bracket Welker and also bracket Gronk as both are nightmares inside. They are complimentary though not supplementary.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Does any other QB in this draft meet the criteria under Parcells' rules?

*Shameless thread pimpin*

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/216475-QB-drafting-quot-rules-quot

To answer your question, yes: Smith, Nassib, Jones, Manuel, and Scott.

[DraftBoy]

Draftboy - I like reading your expertise on these players - you seem to do a ridiculous amount of research. Question for you: Wouldn't it make more sense for the Bills to draft a player like Tavon at #8 and see who's available in rd 2 at qb, or trade back into rd 1? What's your opinion on Tavon? Wouldn't having him and Spiller on the field together be a nightmare for opposing teams in the West Coast Offense, or would their skill sets be too redundant?

I don't think you take Tavon Austin at 8 because you're adding to what you supposedly already have. While an offense can never have too many playmakers we still need a way to get them the ball or stop the other team. Austin is a matchup nightmare but didnt we take Graham for the same reason last year? I think there are other players you could add at positions like TE, and FB who create as many matchup issues with Spiller on the field as Austin does.

I think Tavon Austin has All-Pro ability I just don't see a good reason to pick him because he's not going to be another Steve Smith or Desean Jackson that's just not his game.

[Mahdi]

I don't think you take Tavon Austin at 8 because you're adding to what you supposedly already have. While an offense can never have too many playmakers we still need a way to get them the ball or stop the other team. Austin is a matchup nightmare but didnt we take Graham for the same reason last year? I think there are other players you could add at positions like TE, and FB who create as many matchup issues with Spiller on the field as Austin does.

I think Tavon Austin has All-Pro ability I just don't see a good reason to pick him because he's not going to be another Steve Smith or Desean Jackson that's just not his game.

Don't understand this to TBH.

Austin on his own is a matchup nightmare. How is it redundant to have him and Spiller on the field at the same time.

If I'm a DC I have a problem when the Bills go playaction and pull my LBs to one side to respect Spiller's speed. That leaves more than enough space in the middle for Austin to find a passing lane and take off running.

Yes you could do the same thing with Eifert which is why I wouldn't mind seeing Eifert drafted at 8. I think he is that good.

[kingJofNYC]

My concerns with Barkley are that I feel he's limited. I think he's a NFL quality starter, but I'm not sure he's more than what Matt Schaub is. He's without a doubt a natural leader and a fierce competitor but physically he's limited and I wonder if his will to win can continue to trump his talent in the NFL as it did in HS and college. I've never watched Barkley make a throw and just go "Wow, look at that throw". That's not to say he's never made some great throws but just never wowed me in the games I saw.

His shoulder injury does bother me, as does the system, and his lack of experience putting throws into tight windows. All of that can be taught/dealt with but its a lot of concerns for a Top 10 pick.

For the record I have nearly identical concerns about Nassib.

Pretty much nailed it. His arm is a big negative for me, doesn't drive the ball downfield. Shows flashes but for anyone who wants to get idea of what this kid can expect in the bigs go watch the Stanford game. Dared him to go deep, tight press man with a lot of single high, and Barkley refused to take the deep shot. Knew he wouldn't get the time or fit the throw with coverage being tight.

Personally like Nassib more, but don't think he's a top flight talent either, needs work, his deep game is non-existent. Like the intermediate and short throws, his quick compact release. Lots to work with, to me he has a much higher ceiling but possibly a lower floor.

Would hate the Barkley pick.

[Mahdi]

Pretty much nailed it. His arm is a big negative for me, doesn't drive the ball downfield. Shows flashes but for anyone who wants to get idea of what this kid can expect in the bigs go watch the Stanford game. Dared him to go deep, tight press man with a lot of single high, and Barkley refused to take the deep shot. Knew he wouldn't get the time or fit the throw with coverage being tight.

Personally like Nassib more, but don't think he's a top flight talent either, needs work, his deep game is non-existent. Like the intermediate and short throws, his quick compact release. Lots to work with, to me he has a much higher ceiling but possibly a lower floor.

Would hate the Barkley pick.

I highly doubt Barkley is afraid of or incapable of hitting deep throws. Kiffin's offense is just built to hit short and intermediate stuff to Lee and Woods and let them run.

When he did throw deep it was plenty of arm and more important he was pinpoint accurate.

[ct bills fan]

Per topics discussed here, this is the most fascinating Bills draft in years. My guess is they get spooked by the Jets and take Nassib at #8, but I'm holding out hope they take Tavon (or a top D player) at #8 and take their QB in rd 2 or 3, or try and trade back into Rd 1. If somehow we got Tavon at #8 and traded back into th first to get whomever they favor at Qb, It would be outstanding.

[HAMMER]

Barkley or bust, he will be a good one.

[ct bills fan]

I want to love him as a prospect but not sure??

[CoolBreeze]

I think I'm getting sick to my stomach... California, USC, Weaker Arm...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I cannot express enough how much of a mistake I believe taking Barkley would be. IMO we'd be better off with Kolb this year and waiting for next year to draft a QB, if we're picking Barkley. Yuck Sanchez 2.0

[trapezeus]

more like sanchez 1.6. He will be worse.

[DraftBoy]

Don't understand this to TBH.

Austin on his own is a matchup nightmare. How is it redundant to have him and Spiller on the field at the same time.

If I'm a DC I have a problem when the Bills go playaction and pull my LBs to one side to respect Spiller's speed. That leaves more than enough space in the middle for Austin to find a passing lane and take off running.

Yes you could do the same thing with Eifert which is why I wouldn't mind seeing Eifert drafted at 8. I think he is that good.

Two guys who do the same thing in the same zone.

Not every LB is going to bite on the PA fake, you still have 1-2 to deal with in the middle, not to mention the SAF most teams will probably walk up against our OL.

Eifert at 8 is far too rich for me, rather Otten in Round 6 and a guy like Wingo as a UDFA who offer just as much matchup issues as Austin does. Austin is an amazing athlete but his routes are an issue and his ability to get open down the field is something many question. There is no better WR at running around under 10 yards, but there are quite a few who are better after 10 yards than he is. To me that's an issue.

[DraftBoy]

I highly doubt Barkley is afraid of or incapable of hitting deep throws. Kiffin's offense is just built to hit short and intermediate stuff to Lee and Woods and let them run.

When he did throw deep it was plenty of arm and more important he was pinpoint accurate.

That's a bit of a misnomer while Kiffin's offense was conservative it had plenty of deep routes called. Wittek's game v. ND showed that. The routes were run but the ball wasn't delivered by Barkley and that could be for any number of reasons.

[Mahdi]

That's a bit of a misnomer while Kiffin's offense was conservative it had plenty of deep routes called. Wittek's game v. ND showed that. The routes were run but the ball wasn't delivered by Barkley and that could be for any number of reasons.

One of them being his OL not being too good this year.

[cookie G]

That's a bit of a misnomer while Kiffin's offense was conservative it had plenty of deep routes called. Wittek's game v. ND showed that. The routes were run but the ball wasn't delivered by Barkley and that could be for any number of reasons.

He had some criticism for Kiffin today.

“Kiff kind of suited the play-calling toward Marqise,” Barkley said. “It was rough at times, because defenses kinda knew what was coming. It was sort of predictive. Robert Woods is a great player. . . . You want to be respectful of your coaches, because they are your elders, but when it falls on your shoulders, you probably should get involved.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/22/barkleys-comments-on-usc-leadership-dont-speak-well-for-kiffin/

[TacklingDummy]

I'm ok with the Bills passing on all QBs this year and sucking for Johnny.

[mjt328]

I've settled on Geno Smith and Matt Barkley (in that order) as my top two QBs in the draft.

The two qualities that I consider the most important in a QB are accuracy and decision-making. In my opinion, Barkley possesses the best accuracy BY FAR of the QBs in the draft. Although he does miss some throws, he's the only 2013 prospect that I see consistently hitting receivers in stride at all levels of the field.

Now to be honest, I was greatly disappointed in his overall decision-making this past year. But after listening to some interviews and getting a peek inside his thought-process, I can see that he started forcing things when USC's season started crumbling. He realizes that and believes he can grow from his mistakes. If scouts are right about his intelligence and work ethic, Barkley just might become the best prospect in that area as well.


There are legitimate concerns about Barkley, but many of the arguments against drafting this guy are ******ed.

For instance: arm strength. Plenty of quarterbacks don't have cannons, and the winds of the Ralph are overrated. Barkley's arm is plenty strong enough and I've seen him make more long/deep NFL throws than Nassib.

Also, the failures of Leinart and Sanchez mean absolutely NOTHING to Matt Barkley's NFL future. Just like the failure of Heath Shuler wasn't a reason to pass on Peyton Manning. On top of that, USC probably has more quarterbacks on NFL rosters than any other school right now. Did any other schools have 3 starters last year (Sanchez, Palmer, Cassel)? So if anything, I would call them a very successful school for producing NFL quarterbacks.

[tampabay25690]

I think Barkley is the pick!!!
Shows me everything I need to see.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

there is nothing wrong with taking matt barkley at 8... its a solid pick and worth the risk. cant get mad at them for that pick...

[Mr. Pink]

If we draft Barkley Thursday get ready for 2-3 more years of suckitude and looking for another QB come 2015 - 2016.

Let us not be the team that makes the mistake of drafting that guy.

[tampabay25690]

If we draft Barkley Thursday get ready for 2-3 more years of suckitude and looking for another QB come 2015 - 2016.

Let us not be the team that makes the mistake of drafting that guy.


I think he is worth the pick.

[better days]

Pretty much nailed it. His arm is a big negative for me, doesn't drive the ball downfield. Shows flashes but for anyone who wants to get idea of what this kid can expect in the bigs go watch the Stanford game. Dared him to go deep, tight press man with a lot of single high, and Barkley refused to take the deep shot. Knew he wouldn't get the time or fit the throw with coverage being tight.

Personally like Nassib more, but don't think he's a top flight talent either, needs work, his deep game is non-existent. Like the intermediate and short throws, his quick compact release. Lots to work with, to me he has a much higher ceiling but possibly a lower floor.

Would hate the Barkley pick.

I think Barkley would be Fitz 2.0, smart guy without the physical ability to get er done.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

If we draft Barkley Thursday get ready for 2-3 more years of suckitude and looking for another QB come 2015 - 2016.

Let us not be the team that makes the mistake of drafting that guy.

same thing was said about matt ryan, who was viewed as not worthy of a top 10 qb

- - - Updated - - -


If we draft Barkley Thursday get ready for 2-3 more years of suckitude and looking for another QB come 2015 - 2016.

Let us not be the team that makes the mistake of drafting that guy.

as much as we keep passing on solid qb prospects, no lucks, but solid, you want us, yet again, to pass on a qb....

good lord, are you a secret pats fan?

[Mr. Pink]

same thing was said about matt ryan, who was viewed as not worthy of a top 10 qb

- - - Updated - - -



as much as we keep passing on solid qb prospects, no lucks, but solid, you want us, yet again, to pass on a qb....

good lord, are you a secret pats fan?

I want to pass on a weak armed QB with a bum shoulder who was using underinflated college balls to make him look better than he really is.

If you want to think he's solid, then by all means, but he'll flame out.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I want to pass on a weak armed QB with a bum shoulder who was using underinflated college balls to make him look better than he really is.

If you want to think he's solid, then by all means, but he'll flame out.

so a guy who doesnt have a jeff george arm and was rated with luck last year is not a solid pick??? like i said, if you dont want to take barkley, then you will never want to take a qb... WE ARE NOT PICKING 1ST NEXT YEAR MAN

- - - Updated - - -

Why fans of this club want to keep neglecting the qb spot is almost self loathing on some sick level... i dont get it.

[Mr. Pink]

so a guy who doesnt have a jeff george arm and was rated with luck last year is not a solid pick??? like i said, if you dont want to take barkley, then you will never want to take a qb... WE ARE NOT PICKING 1ST NEXT YEAR MAN

- - - Updated - - -

Why fans of this club want to keep neglecting the qb spot is almost self loathing on some sick level... i dont get it.

Weak armed QBs do NOT succeed at the NFL level.

And you want one of those?

[better days]

I think Barkley is the pick!!!
Shows me everything I need to see.

Did you watch his Pro day? It was TERRIBLE. Even his supporters jumped off his bandwagon after that.

[mayotm]

Did you watch his Pro day? It was TERRIBLE. Even his supporters jumped off his bandwagon after that.
I certainly I hope your opinion on Barkley is based on more than his pro day. It's such a small part of the entire process.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Weak armed QBs do NOT succeed at the NFL level.

And you want one of those?

I've never once heard Barkley's arm described as "weak" only that it was average. Where are you seeing that?

[DraftBoy]

I've never once heard Barkley's arm described as "weak" only that it was average. Where are you seeing that?

Not classified as "weak" but definitely scouts questioning its strength from PFT;
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/17/could-matt-barkleys-draft-stock-be-slipping/

[better days]

I certainly I hope your opinion on Barkley is based on more than his pro day. It's such a small part of the entire process.

No my opinion is also based on games I saw him play & the fact he was caught throwing an underinflated football in College as well. If a QB can't throw well at his Pro day against AIR in California, how can he perform against NFL defenses in the elements of the North East?

[Mahdi]

I want to pass on a weak armed QB with a bum shoulder who was using underinflated college balls to make him look better than he really is.

If you want to think he's solid, then by all means, but he'll flame out.

Barkley has the biggest hands in the class. He doesn't need underinflated footballs.

[DraftBoy]

Barkley has the biggest hands in the class. He doesn't need underinflated footballs.

But the fact is they did play with under inflated footballs at USC. Whether he needed them or not is a valid discussion.

[gebobs]

But the fact is they did play with under inflated footballs at USC. Whether he needed them or not is a valid discussion.
It was done by a student manager and it was just one game. He could have been put up to it by one of the receivers. Just as likely is he did it on his own. I wouldn't read anything into this as regards Barkley. The balls were all taken out by halftime and it didn't affect either teams offensive performance at all.

[DraftBoy]

It was done by a student manager and it was just one game. He could have been put up to it by one of the receivers. Just as likely is he did it on his own. I wouldn't read anything into this as regards Barkley. The balls were all taken out by halftime and it didn't affect either teams offensive performance at all.

Absolutely true, and we don't know that it was just one game. That was just the one game they got caught. However I would not just dismiss it either.

The last part is almost entirely speculation about the net affect on performance.

[gebobs]

Absolutely true, and we don't know that it was just one game. That was just the one game they got caught.
The refs check the pressure of every game ball every game. My guess is that Kiffen, snake that he is, was behind this.

[pmoon6]

Why fans of this club want to keep neglecting the qb spot is almost self loathing on some sick level... i dont get it.Taking a guy who may just be a back-up and might not be able to handle the wind in RWS at number 8 sets the team back on their rebuild. Barkley has bust written all over him.

Do we need a young QB to develop. Yes. I believe we would have taken Cousins last year had Washington not snapped him up a few picks before. I just don't want Buffalo to panic, like many fans seem to be, and take any of these QBs that high.

[mjt328]

Not classified as "weak" but definitely scouts questioning its strength from PFT;
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/17/could-matt-barkleys-draft-stock-be-slipping/

You know what is funny?

Scouts criticize Barkley for his arm strength, and say we should draft Nassib instead.

But even the most untrained eye can see that Barkley has a better, more accurate deep ball!!!!!

[DraftBoy]

The refs check the pressure of every game ball every game. My guess is that Kiffen, snake that he is, was behind this.

I have no doubt of that.

[DraftBoy]

You know what is funny?

Scouts criticize Barkley for his arm strength, and say we should draft Nassib instead.

But even the most untrained eye can see that Barkley has a better, more accurate deep ball!!!!!

Better is subjective and as for deep accuracy...Barkley had a 40.5 cmp rate and a 24-2 TD:INT ratio in 20+ yd throws. That was on 120 attempts.

Nassib meanwhile had a 62.5 cmp pct on 20+ throws. I dont have the TD:INT ratio though.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Taking a guy who may just be a back-up and might not be able to handle the wind in RWS at number 8 sets the team back on their rebuild. Barkley has bust written all over him.

Do we need a young QB to develop. Yes. I believe we would have taken Cousins last year had Washington not snapped him up a few picks before. I just don't want Buffalo to panic, like many fans seem to be, and take any of these QBs that high.

case and point, if you want a qb, you need to take them a rd higher... just the way it is man

[Mahdi]

Better is subjective and as for deep accuracy...Barkley had a 40.5 cmp rate and a 24-2 TD:INT ratio in 20+ yd throws. That was on 120 attempts.

Nassib meanwhile had a 62.5 cmp pct on 20+ throws. I dont have the TD:INT ratio though.

You only have to watch Barkley to know his deep accuracy is impressive.

[pmoon6]

case and point, if you want a qb, you need to take them a rd higher... just the way it is manJust a heads up. It's "Case in point".

And no, I wasn't criticizing and I'm not the grammar police.

[pmoon6]

case and point, if you want a qb, you need to take them a rd higher... just the way it is manCool, that means we can take one of the mediocre QB's in this years draft in the second round.

[gebobs]

Better is subjective and as for deep accuracy...Barkley had a 40.5 cmp rate and a 24-2 TD:INT ratio in 20+ yd throws. That was on 120 attempts.
40% is pretty good and 20% TD% is impressive.


Nassib meanwhile had a 62.5 cmp pct on 20+ throws. I dont have the TD:INT ratio though.
Or total attempts. 62% is good for overall completion and is unreal for long throws....unless the sample size is low. I found some splits on ESPN but none for pass yardage.

[DraftBoy]

40% is pretty good and 20% TD% is impressive.


Or total attempts. 62% is good for overall completion and is unreal for long throws....unless the sample size is low. I found some splits on ESPN but none for pass yardage.

According to the numbers I posted in the other thread he threw deep 10.32% of the time. Which equates to roughly 48 attempts last year to Barkley's 45 last year.

Here is the thread:
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/218358-Nassib-v-Barkley-Using-Metrics

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Not classified as "weak" but definitely scouts questioning its strength from PFT;
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/17/could-matt-barkleys-draft-stock-be-slipping/

That article is 6 months old. How have the reviews looked after his shoulder rehab?

[DraftBoy]

That article is 6 months old. How have the reviews looked after his shoulder rehab?

Not great.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/03/27/matt-barkley-pro-day-usc/2026329/

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Not great.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/03/27/matt-barkley-pro-day-usc/2026329/

It seemed like there was a split of opinion even there



Norv Turner, the Cleveland Browns offensive coordinator and former NFL head coach, didn't quibble.
"I really like him. I liked him on tape. He's had a great career here. He's seen the adversity of playing the quarterback position. He's obviously got the physical skills," Turner said.
"I mean, I'm not a doctor, but watching him throw, there's nothing wrong with him."
Some of the concern among scouts isn't about the injury, but arm strength even when healthy. Barkley was sharp on short routes, but had some wobbles on deeper throws, overthrowing some and leaving receivers to wait for others.

"If you watch the tape, you'll see he's got a strong arm and he can throw the ball deep," Turner said. "I think he showed that in this workout."

So some thought it was good, others thought it was questionable. I dunno, it doesn't really move the needle for me.



Other NFL personnel on hand included Jacksonville Jaguars coach Gus Bradley, Oakland Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie and New York Jets quarterbacks coach David Lee.

I did note that the Bills weren't present though.

[DraftBoy]

It seemed like there was a split of opinion even there



So some thought it was good, others thought it was questionable. I dunno, it doesn't really move the needle for me.




I did note that the Bills weren't present though.

Always been the way with Barkley. I talked to two different NFL scouts about them both said the same thing. From a physical standpoint he's just okay. He can make all the NFL throws, but he doesn't do well with anything beyond 10 yards in terms of zip. Lots of passes floated on him and they didn't think it was a mechanical issue.

Off the field, in the locker room, and in the huddle there is no QB who is close to him. I think the one scout put it best, he's like Tebow with more pure talent.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Always been the way with Barkley. I talked to two different NFL scouts about them both said the same thing. From a physical standpoint he's just okay. He can make all the NFL throws, but he doesn't do well with anything beyond 10 yards in terms of zip. Lots of passes floated on him and they didn't think it was a mechanical issue.

Off the field, in the locker room, and in the huddle there is no QB who is close to him. I think the one scout put it best, he's like Tebow with more pure talent.

What? How is he link Tebow at all? Tebow is a stellar runner, is built like a brick ****house, but takes forever to do his reads and is atrociously inaccurate when he does throw. What part of Barkley is even close to that?

[Mahdi]

What? How is he link Tebow at all? Tebow is a stellar runner, is built like a brick ****house, but takes forever to do his reads and is atrociously inaccurate when he does throw. What part of Barkley is even close to that?

The intangibles he means. Leadership, intelligence, character, dedication to the game.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The intangibles he means. Leadership, intelligence, character, dedication to the game.

I don't know that I'd agree with that either, but at least it's an understandable comparison.

[Mahdi]

I don't know that I'd agree with that either, but at least it's an understandable comparison.

How do you not agree?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How do you not agree?

I watched several USC games and I never saw that leadership from Barkley. He even admitted it himself:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-draft-prospect-matt-barkley-regrets-not-being-more-outspoken--forceful-at-usc-062448687.html


Regarded after his junior season as a sure top-five pick, Barkley now faces the prospect of an unfulfilling night of Must Flee TV, should he slip out of Thursday's first round altogether. And as he contemplates an uncertain pro football future, Barkley has some very definite ideas about what went wrong in his immediate past.

"Yeah, I've thought about it long and hard," Barkley says as he picks disinterestedly at his Cobb salad. "I learned how to handle adversity last season, and maybe I could have done a few things differently. I could've had a bigger voice, given more input and taken it to the next level — pretty much as the owner of the company might … not just letting things happen.


"You put faith in your coaches, but when you see trends, things not happening the right way, and when the team rests on your shoulders, it's almost like you have to step up. You can't just let these things go by and watch them disintegrate in front of you. You've got to put the glue in somewhere. Looking back, I wish I'd been more forceful."

Criticize Tebow's throwing motions and reads all day (and you could, they are terrible), but that guy is a leader of men. Barkley hasn't shown that.

[Mahdi]

I watched several USC games and I never saw that leadership from Barkley. He even admitted it himself:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-draft-prospect-matt-barkley-regrets-not-being-more-outspoken--forceful-at-usc-062448687.html



Criticize Tebow's throwing motions and reads all day (and you could, they are terrible), but that guy is a leader of men. Barkley hasn't shown that.

What Barkley is saying there is that he should have voiced his concerns about the offense to the coaches but was reluctant because he wanted to respect their gameplan.

With the players its widely known that he was a strong leader.

[DraftBoy]

What? How is he link Tebow at all? Tebow is a stellar runner, is built like a brick ****house, but takes forever to do his reads and is atrociously inaccurate when he does throw. What part of Barkley is even close to that?

Off the field characteristics.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What Barkley is saying there is that he should have voiced his concerns about the offense to the coaches but was reluctant because he wanted to respect their gameplan.

With the players its widely known that he was a strong leader.

http://deadspin.com/5976504/reports-usc-players-had-a-locker+room-brawl-over-matt-barkleys-honor


After the game, something happened in the locker room. The Los Angeles Daily News uses the word "altercation." (http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_22379355/sources-say-10-15-usc-football-players-involved) ESPN's source calls it a "flat-out brawl." (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/college-football/story/_/id/8849887/usc-trojans-scuffle-following-bowl-defeat-sources-say) It involved at least 10 players, and "started when some freshmen questioned the leadership of the team's seniors and whether they gave 100 percent effort for the Sun Bowl." ESPN adds that the trigger was one of the team's younger players "badmouthing Matt Barkley," and questioning the extent of his injury.

"When I came into the locker room ... it was just pure chaos in there," the [unnamed] player said. "... I think there was a lot of frustration. There were some things said by some guys on our team who are just hotheads."
Several other upperclassmen, including senior safety T.J. McDonald, came to Barkley's defense, the sources said. A security guard confirmed only that "tempers flared," but other sources told ESPN that "it was haymakers."
Barkley today denied that any punches had been thrown, insisting that "it was nothing to be alarmed about." An anonymous player told the Daily News, though, that "it was one of the worst things I've seen in a locker room."


I'm ok with drafting him, but I'm not seeing these intangibles that you claim to.

[Mahdi]

http://deadspin.com/5976504/reports-usc-players-had-a-locker+room-brawl-over-matt-barkleys-honor




I'm ok with drafting him, but I'm not seeing these intangibles that you claim to.


I don't see how that tarnishes Barkley's leadership skills...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I don't see how that tarnishes Barkley's leadership skills...

A brawl in the locker room because the young players are questioning his leadership? Should I draw a map?

[Mahdi]

A brawl in the locker room because the young players are questioning his leadership? Should I draw a map?

What I see there is some young hotshots questioning a player's integrity and being shut up by other leaders on the team like TJ McDonald. If the other older guys on the team were questioning Barkley then I would think twice.

[Mr. Pink]

What I see there is some young hotshots questioning a player's integrity and being shut up by other leaders on the team like TJ McDonald. If the other older guys on the team were questioning Barkley then I would think twice.

Locker room cancer.

Player that divides the locker room by his actions.

A guy who doesn't have an NFL arm.

A guy with a bum shoulder.

WHERE DO I SIGN UP TO DRAFT THAT!!!!!

[Mahdi]

Locker room cancer.

Player that divides the locker room by his actions.

A guy who doesn't have an NFL arm.

A guy with a bum shoulder.

WHERE DO I SIGN UP TO DRAFT THAT!!!!!

Locker Room cancer? Wow, every NFL scout and analyst must have missed that...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What I see there is some young hotshots questioning a player's integrity and being shut up by other leaders on the team like TJ McDonald. If the other older guys on the team were questioning Barkley then I would think twice.

So it counts as leadership when A) several players are questioning his leadership and B) a bunch of other players have to come to his defense?

Call it what you want, I'm not seeing what you're seeing. When players have criticized Tebow, it's been because he couldn't make the throws. I've never seen anyone questioning his effort or leadership.

[Extremebillsfan247]

The closer we get to the NFL Draft, the more I keep hearing about Barkley going to the Bills at 8. Many will probably view it as a mistake should he be the pick. But there can be a reason behind why they would go in that direction. The Bills are already starting to set up a tempo on offense. We also know that they plan to run a close variation on the west coast offense in which Barkley would probably excel in.

Personally, I still think it's anyone's best guess on who the pick will be at 8. The Bills overall have done a pretty good job of concealing their interests enough to put at least some doubt in the mind of every analyst and so called draft guru. JMO

[Bert102176]

He will be there in rd 2

[Mr. Pink]

Locker Room cancer? Wow, every NFL scout and analyst must have missed that...

What do you think he's doing when there are brawls in the locker room over people questioning his intangibles?

[Bill Cody]

so a guy who doesnt have a jeff george arm and was rated with luck last year is not a solid pick??? like i said, if you dont want to take barkley, then you will never want to take a qb... WE ARE NOT PICKING 1ST NEXT YEAR MAN

- - - Updated - - -

Why fans of this club want to keep neglecting the qb spot is almost self loathing on some sick level... i dont get it.


No. It's the hardest position is all of sports. Very very few are great at it. It would be nice if we drafted someone we can envision being that guy. Why is that a bad thing?

[Bill Cody]

What I see there is some young hotshots questioning a player's integrity and being shut up by other leaders on the team like TJ McDonald. If the other older guys on the team were questioning Barkley then I would think twice.

They were calling him soft, that he should have been playing. Was that fair? I don't know. But let's be honest here.

Is that really a wild charge about a USC QB? There are some notable exceptions but pillow soft seems to be the norm. All in all I think I'd prefer Tyler Wilson if you're going to draft a QB who floats the ball. There wouldn't be a soul on Arkansas charging Wilson as being soft. No chance. I think this idea that Barkley is a great leader is not supported by anything.

[BillsFever21]

Marrone has seen Nassib for 4 years and they also went to the Syracuse's pro day so they have seen plenty of him. I wouldn't read much into the fact they didn't bring him in for a visit.

[swiper]

I'm on board. It's Barkley at 8 or bust.

Feeling the wind just 3 days before the draft, I'm not sensing the Bills taking any other position at 8 other than QB.

LOL. Barkley has become the flavor of the day.

[Tatonka]

I would be cool with either option.


I think they are deciding or have decided between two choices.

1. Pick Barkley at 8 and Woods or Hopkins at 41.


2. Pick Eifert or Austin at 8 and Nassib at 41.

[Tatonka]

and according to nassib, who i saw with John Gruden, he did a private workout for the bills.. maybe it wasnt in buffalo? im not sure, but he did do a private work out with them. I heard it from him directly.

[better days]

Barkley has the biggest hands in the class. He doesn't need underinflated footballs.

And yet he USED tem.

[better days]

It was done by a student manager and it was just one game. He could have been put up to it by one of the receivers. Just as likely is he did it on his own. I wouldn't read anything into this as regards Barkley. The balls were all taken out by halftime and it didn't affect either teams offensive performance at all.

It was one game they were caught. Most likely it went on ALL SEASON. & Probably the Season before.

[Mr. Pink]

It was one game they were caught. Most likely it went on ALL SEASON. & Probably the Season before.

Just like the Pats must have only taped people once and just got caught.

Everyone jumps on they continuously cheated but Barkley was a one time deal.

They both cheated for extended periods of time, til caught.

[Mahdi]

And yet he USED tem.

You are making many assumptions that make this argument invalid.

You assume Barkley knew about it, you assume it was more than once. You assume they did it for Barkley in the first place. Maybe the kicker wanted an under inflated ball.

[Night Train]

Hows this working out ?

[BillsFever21]

Hows this working out ?

I love reading a couple people in this thread who said that Barkley is the best QB and SHOULD be the pick at #8. Now them very same people are saying they wanted Manuel the entire time.

We could pull up many posts from people who said we should draft Tyler Wilson in the 1st round and that we wouldn't have a choice but to draft one with the #8 pick. Some said we may even need to move up. Then again they change positions everyday though.

We drafted any QB higher then I would've liked especially after how the draft played out. It was even worse then I thought. With that said I can live with it since we traded down and got an extra pick. I can also live with Manuel. At least I get to watch the QB of my favorite team play with the Bills.

Ponder hasn't set the world on fire as of yet but to use as a comparison of the two QB's Manuel was the far more successful and talented QB out of the two. We won more games with Manuel then we did with Ponder and Manuel looked far better. I was shocked when I saw Ponder drafted that high in the draft with many other QB's on the board. I was thinking more of a 2nd round pick or so when he entered the draft.