be ready for the bills to trade byrd on thur/fri...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

byrd is a really good safety, but hes not ed reed or even polamalu...

makes no sense to give him 10 mil per season...ugh

get a 2nd and 4th and move on.

nix said this draft is the deepest at safety in 10 years...

safety just doesnt hold that much value

[kingJofNYC]

I'm sure this will go exactly like your Rinehart prediction.

some team has to be willing to give up what you propose in picks and pay him 10m per year even though the position holds no value, according to you anyway. Seems logical to me.

[trapezeus]

so we shouldn't sign our own safety who proved to be quite good, but we should take a flier on a qb just because we need a qb?

It's as though russ brandon posts through you. it's amazing.

[Skooby]

Is this some kind of a sick joke?

[swiper]

Please Thursday... hurry up and get here.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I'm sure this will go exactly like your Rinehart prediction.

some team has to be willing to give up what you propose in picks and pay him 10m per year even though the position holds no value, according to you anyway. Seems logical to me.

some team might really need a safety and be willing to pay, but we have options, with a deep draft at safety... it depends on the team, we dont need to pay byrd 10 mil, we need picks... another team might be a couple pieces away...

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I'm sure this will go exactly like your Rinehart prediction.

some team has to be willing to give up what you propose in picks and pay him 10m per year even though the position holds no value, according to you anyway. Seems logical to me.

and i was right about rinehart, that they wouldnt pay top 5 money for a guard... so yeah, i was correct. and im right about not paying byrd that crazy money...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

so we shouldn't sign our own safety who proved to be quite good, but we should take a flier on a qb just because we need a qb?

It's as though russ brandon posts through you. it's amazing.

are you actually comparing safety and qb??? wow

[NOT THE DUDE...]

here is the thing, players come and go now, you simply cannot resign everyone, so getting more and more picks, and then solving the qb spot is how you stay good for a long time.

only pass rushers and maybe a great wr or lt deserve that type of money.

its why von miller went 2nd overall over dareus or a guard or safety......

[Beebe's Kid]

Hopefully we can use one of the picks to draft a safety, let him acclimate to the league, and then do it again.

You say Byrd is not that good, but as bad as the Bills D has been, it is much worse without him on the field.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Hopefully we can use one of the picks to draft a safety, let him acclimate to the league, and then do it again.

You say Byrd is not that good, but as bad as the Bills D has been, it is much worse without him on the field.

i didnt say byrd is not that good, hes good, like top 10 safety, who get 3-5 picks a year... but im sorry, investing 10 million a year when the safety is not reed or polamalu i have a major problem with...

if a team bites, and gives us a 2nd and 4th, im taking it....

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i have no problem drafting say a robert lester in the mid rds and letting aaron williams start.


the d sucked because of wanny and our minor league qb

[NOT THE DUDE...]

if we take our qb barkley at 8, i would trade byrd, and then try to trade down even more...


we need waay more players and the sec is full of guys on d that should be really good rds 2-5

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say what you want about nix, but if he hits on barkley, we already know he drafts well in those rds... especially on d

[pmoon6]

the d sucked because of wanny and our minor league qbYeah, Fitzy should have had way more tackles and he was out of position in a lot of deep coverages.

[better days]

If they can't get a long term deal done with him before then, I am all for a trade.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Yeah, Fitzy should have had way more tackles and he was out of position in a lot of deep coverages.

is that what i said?

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If they can't get a long term deal done with him before then, I am all for a trade.

i agree, and honestly think byrd is good. and dont hold the " great label" people are putting on him.

i would really try hard to get a few picks... jmo

[NOT THE DUDE...]

i see no difference between kurt schulz and byrd... so, if we can get a 2nd and 3rd... man i would do it in a heartbeat!

[TacklingDummy]

If they can get a mid first round pick for him I would trade him.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

If they can get a mid first round pick for him Han I would trade him.

that would be good.

imagine taking barkley, and then getting jarvis jones or mingo.... wow! then like i said, just take robert lester in the 4th.... makes sense to me

[TacklingDummy]

that would be good.

imagine taking barkley, and then getting jarvis jones or mingo.... wow! then like i said, just take robert lester in the 4th.... makes sense to me

#8: Jones
#15: Mingo or Olgetree
#41: Woods

Next years 1st on Johnny Football.

[gr8slayer]

Not happening.

[Scumbag College]

Please Thursday... hurry up and get here.

The only thing is that after Thursday we have three months of sports purgatory until the preseason starts.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Trading a 26 year old two time all pro for peanuts, its the buffalo way!

[Yasgur's Farm]

byrd is a really good safety, but hes not ed reed or even polamalu...

makes no sense to give him 10 mil per season...ugh

get a 2nd and 4th and move on.

nix said this draft is the deepest at safety in 10 years...

safety just doesnt hold that much valueNever for a 2nd my friend... High 1st at worst... We can still franchise him nextyear.

[Rob's House]

I'd hate to see him go, but if he really wants that kind of money and doesn't want to be here it'd be a lot better to get something in return now than tag him for a year and watch him walk next year. I know we could reapply the tag but with how high the tag number would be next year, he'd have all the leverage and it would make it a lot harder to work out a trade.

That being said, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed and hoping they can work out a deal that works for both sides.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Trading a 26 year old two time all pro for peanuts, its the buffalo way!


hes a safety man, and a good one, but hes not ed reed. getting a high pick and a mid rd pick would be optimal, especially with how deep this draft is with dbs... there is a thing called a salary cap that makes you rank priority....

it was a major reason why ny traded revis...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

hes a safety man, and a good one, but hes not ed reed. getting a high pick and a mid rd pick would be optimal, especially with how deep this draft is with dbs... there is a thing called a salary cap that makes you rank priority....

Quick question: How many all-pro teams did Ed Reed get named to by the time he was 26?


it was a major reason why ny traded revis...

They traded Revis because he was holdout happy and their GM handicapped him with other extensions.

[kingJofNYC]

hes a safety man, and a good one, but hes not ed reed. getting a high pick and a mid rd pick would be optimal, especially with how deep this draft is with dbs... there is a thing called a salary cap that makes you rank priority....

it was a major reason why ny traded revis...

do you not see the flaw in your logic? A team will give up a lot to acquire Byrd, picks and big contract, even though this is a deep safety draft..... Why would a team do this and not just draft one in this amazing pool....

you also think safety is a devalued position, which couldn't be further from the truth.

You also thought Rinehart was the next big thing, so there's that.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

do you not see the flaw in your logic? A team will give up a lot to acquire Byrd, picks and big contract, even though this is a deep safety draft..... Why would a team do this and not just draft one in this amazing pool....

you also think safety is a devalued position, which couldn't be further from the truth.

You also thought Rinehart was the next big thing, so there's that.

no, i said the bills would go with someone like rinehart, and not give levitre that much money. and like i said earlier, yes byrd is very very good, a top 10 safety, and could be a final piece to a team... the bills are not that team, and need more picks. saying im not willing to pay byrd does not mean another team isnt. it depends on the salary cap of the team, and what they need... its not mutually exclusive

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Quick question: How many all-pro teams did Ed Reed get named to by the time he was 26?



They traded Revis because he was holdout happy and their GM handicapped him with other extensions.

im not sure, but byrd is not reed. it just an opinion, but i would get the draft picks instead of putting my salary cap in some bind because of a good safety...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

""Did they get a fair price for Rickey Henderson? It's kind of like if you're an art collector and you have the Mona Lisa, what's a fair price for it? The idea in building a championship team is to acquire players like Rickey Henderson. It's a sad day when you have to give one away.""

[NOT THE DUDE...]

do you not see the flaw in your logic? A team will give up a lot to acquire Byrd, picks and big contract, even though this is a deep safety draft.....
Why would a team do this and not just draft one in this amazing pool....

you also think safety is a devalued position, which couldn't be further from the truth.

You also thought Rinehart was the next big thing, so there's that.

because byrd is a proven commodity and probably better than any safety coming out. doesnt mean this isnt a deep draft at safety and doesnt mean we cant find a good one. like i said, its a trade that deals with cap priority, and getting more talent in here...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

hypothetically i think trading byrd for

2- tyrann mathieu/justin hunter

4- rambo or lester

cheaper and you get the extra pick...

[mjt328]

Absolutely. Terrible. Idea.

If we aren't willing to pay young, talented, healthy, productive players who are among the VERY BEST at their position - then why in the %*#! are we even an NFL team? To sell jerseys? To kill time on Sunday afternoons?

Draft picks are overrated. People talk about FIRST ROUND PICKS like they are gold. But more than half of the players drafted in the first round will become busts. You don't trade top players for draft picks. it's incredibly stupid. We traded Jason Peters for a first round pick. We nailed that pick and drafted a pretty good player in Eric Wood. But we still lost in that trade, because Peters was a much better player than Wood.

How in the world do you think that trading Byrd would make us better? So we can add another pick and draft Kenny Vaccaro, and just HOPE that he ends up as good as Byrd?

Here is a crazy idea. Instead of letting our top players walk due to squabbles over $2-3 million per year, how about we quit signing worthless garbage like Brad Smith. How about we quit giving extensions to punt returners (McKelvin) and average defensive linemen (Kelsay). How about we use incentive clauses for "prove-it" players like Ryan Fitzpatrick instead of guaranteeing all of his money?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

im not sure, but byrd is not reed. it just an opinion, but i would get the draft picks instead of putting my salary cap in some bind because of a good safety...

The answer: 2. The same as Byrd. You keep saying "Byrd is not Ed Reed" but you are comparing Ed Reed's entire career to four seasons of Byrd's. Byrd is more than a Top 10 safety, he's one of the most promising defenders in the league. He's made all-Pro teams twice despite playing under FOUR separate defensive systems and THREE defensive coordinators. And you want to deal him for a pissant 2nd and 4th? Horrible return, horrible idea.

[Typ0]

At least half the guys you draft don't turn into crap ... and you want to trade Byrd for a 2nd and 3rd? Basically, you want to downgrade the team to save money. They just might do it!

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Absolutely. Terrible. Idea.

If we aren't willing to pay young, talented, healthy, productive players who are among the VERY BEST at their position - then why in the %*#! are we even an NFL team? To sell jerseys? To kill time on Sunday afternoons?

Draft picks are overrated. People talk about FIRST ROUND PICKS like they are gold. But more than half of the players drafted in the first round will become busts. You don't trade top players for draft picks. it's incredibly stupid. We traded Jason Peters for a first round pick. We nailed that pick and drafted a pretty good player in Eric Wood. But we still lost in that trade, because Peters was a much better player than Wood.

How in the world do you think that trading Byrd would make us better? So we can add another pick and draft Kenny Vaccaro, and just HOPE that he ends up as good as Byrd?

Here is a crazy idea. Instead of letting our top players walk due to squabbles over $2-3 million per year, how about we quit signing worthless garbage like Brad Smith. How about we quit giving extensions to punt returners (McKelvin) and average defensive linemen (Kelsay). How about we use incentive clauses for "prove-it" players like Ryan Fitzpatrick instead of guaranteeing all of his money?


ITS NOT A MATTER OF WILLING, ITS CALLED A SALARY CAP. why is this so hard to understand?

you get robert lester and a possible 1st or 2nd... and the price is cheaper...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

At least half the guys you draft don't turn into crap ... and you want to trade Byrd for a 2nd and 3rd? Basically, you want to downgrade the team to save money. They just might do it!

i want a 1st, but im not sure we can get it.

a 2nd and 3rd/4th is solid value. for some odd reason you have this notion we can keep everyone, and pay a good safety 10 mil per season. we just disagree on this thing called math.

you want to keep byrd,

me- possibly resign carrington and wood, along with getting the extra 1st or 2nd...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

and byrd is a top 10 safety, but for christs sake, hes not one of the top defensive players in the league. i see no difference between him and kurt schulz. a good player, and someone who can make the pro bowl every few years... not worth 10 mil per year man

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hell, not worth 8 mil per

[IlluminatusUIUC]

i want a 1st, but im not sure we can get it.

a 2nd and 3rd/4th is solid value. for some odd reason you have this notion we can keep everyone, and pay a good safety 10 mil per season. we just disagree on this thing called math.

you want to keep byrd,

me- possibly resign carrington and wood, along with getting the extra 1st or 2nd...

You seem to have this idea that teams get better by dealing elite talent to get marginal talent that's cheaper. Has repeatedly trading a dollar for a bunch of quarters ever built a winning franchise? In any sport?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

it was why we let whitner go... very good, BUT A SAFETY...

if.... a team is willing to bite, then i would go for the extra picks

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You seem to have this idea that teams get better by dealing elite talent to get marginal talent that's cheaper. Has repeatedly trading a dollar for a bunch of quarters ever built a winning franchise? In any sport?

i dont want him to go, im saying the math wont let you keep him. and if hes leaving next year, get something for him...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

now if it was a pass rusher, or top wr, or elite LT with no injury issues, then yeah, pay the man....

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obviosuly a qb would get paid too... but not a safety, unless their impact is incredible, like polamalu, reed, ronnie lott

[IlluminatusUIUC]

and byrd is a top 10 safety, but for christs sake, hes not one of the top defensive players in the league. i see no difference between him and kurt schulz. a good player, and someone who can make the pro bowl every few years... not worth 10 mil per year man

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hell, not worth 8 mil per

Kurt Schulz never made a pro bowl in his entire career and if you don't see a difference between him and Schulz then you're not looking.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

the pats have a very similar philosophy

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Kurt Schulz never made a pro bowl in his entire career and if you don't see a difference between him and Schulz then you're not looking.

yes he did, with the lions i believe. and even if he didnt, it doesnt matter. the stats are the same/impact same...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Kurt Schulz never made a pro bowl in his entire career and if you don't see a difference between him and Schulz then you're not looking.

no, youre seeing something that isnt there. hes good, very good. not great... major difference man

[IlluminatusUIUC]

yes he did, with the lions i believe. and even if he didnt, it doesnt matter. the stats are the same/impact same...

He did not, and the stats are not "the same." He wasn't even a starter until he was 27 years old.

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no, youre seeing something that isnt there. hes good, very good. not great... major difference man

You said yourself he's a Top 10 safety. Being a multiple All-Pro, I'd say he's closer to Top 5.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

He did not, and the stats are not "the same." He wasn't even a starter until he was 27 years old.

so? when he started the stats were the same. i dont know what you want me to say. hes good, but not worth that much cap space...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

its jmo, and it wouldnt suprise me if hes traded thur/fri

[IlluminatusUIUC]

so? when he started the stats were the same. i dont know what you want me to say. hes good, but not worth that much cap space...

Kurt Schulz' first four years starting. 18 INTs, 1 TD, 4 forced fumbles, 164 tackles, 0 sacks.
Jairus Byrd's first four years starting. 18 INTs, 2 TDs, 10 forced fumbles, 219 tackles, 2 sacks.

And mind you, Byrd hasn't even reached his prime yet. And he racked up those stats while being bounced around from DC to DC and system to system. Schulz was playing on a stacked team under a Hall of Fame head coach and Wade Phillips, one of the best in the business.

For comparison,

Troy Polamalu: 10 INTs, 2 TDs (one on a Fumble), 4 forced fumbles, 228 tackles, 7 sacks.
Ed Reed: 22 ints, 3 TDs (one on a fumble), 4 forced fumbles, 227 tackles, 4 sacks.

So while Byrd doesn't match up to Reed, hardly anyone does. He's the gold standard at the position and probably the greatest safety of all time. Meanwhile, Byrd compares extremely favorably to Polamalu in every category except sacks, but Byrd doesn't play close to the LOS like Polamalu does.

He's an elite player. Dumping him for picks is foolhardy.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Kurt Schulz' first four years starting. 18 INTs, 1 TD, 4 forced fumbles, 164 tackles, 0 sacks.
Jairus Byrd's first four years starting. 18 INTs, 2 TDs, 10 forced fumbles, 219 tackles, 2 sacks.

And mind you, Byrd hasn't even reached his prime yet. And he racked up those stats while being bounced around from DC to DC and system to system. Schulz was playing on a stacked team under a Hall of Fame head coach and Wade Phillips, one of the best in the business.

For comparison,

Troy Polamalu: 10 INTs, 2 TDs (one on a Fumble), 4 forced fumbles, 228 tackles, 7 sacks.
Ed Reed: 22 ints, 3 TDs (one on a fumble), 4 forced fumbles, 227 tackles, 4 sacks.

So while Byrd doesn't match up to Reed, hardly anyone does. He's the gold standard at the position and probably the greatest safety of all time. Meanwhile, Byrd compares extremely favorably to Polamalu in every category except sacks, but Byrd doesn't play close to the LOS like Polamalu does.

He's an elite player. Dumping him for picks is foolhardy.

i agree, i think hes a really good player. and i think impact is so much more than stats, ed reed, polamalu, byrd, schulz all have similar stats, but their impact on the game is different, and i think we would all agree reed and polamalu, possibly eric berry and earl thomas are better too.

i wouldnt call him elite, as the gap between him and reed is wide, even a ed reed right now.... hes just not on that level, nor is he on polamalus level. but hes very good.

i stand by my hypothetical. if on draft day someone gives a 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th, im pulling the trigger.

you are getting more cap room, plus an extra player. i think positional value is something to consider as well....

[NOT THE DUDE...]

my personal philosophy with a salary cap in play is to give big money to qbs, and playmakers on offense, ot and then elite pass rushers...

jmo.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

for example, if jarvis jones or mingo slip, and we can do a 1st and 4th and take a big time pass rusher, i think thats a no brainer.

hell, maybe jaroun is dumb enough to give us the browns 1st rd pick... who knows. but id try to trade byrd.

what if the browns trade us pick 6, and we get barkley and mingo? a big time pass rusher trumps a safety every time

[IlluminatusUIUC]

my personal philosophy with a salary cap in play is to give big money to qbs, and playmakers on offense, ot and then elite pass rushers...

jmo.

My personal salary cap philosophy is to stop screwing around and pay the players you draft who are both young and elite at their positions. It's not a complicated strategy. You want to deal Byrd for Mingo even though we literally just dropped $140 million on pass rushers a year ago? How does that make salary cap sense?

[jimmifli]

I think he's the best safety in NFL today. Maybe Weddle is better, maybe Earl Thomas... but I'd probably take Byrd over those guys just based on knowing him better.

Profootballfocus says there were only 16 passes completed against him all season. And he's a beast in run support. I'm sure he's missed a tackle or two but I really can't think of any, he's as sure a tackler we've had since Winfield.

This thread is stupid.

[Tatonka]

so another team is going to miss the fact that this is such a deep saftey draft and give up 2 high picks for byrd? id say highly unlikely.

[Extremebillsfan247]

byrd is a really good safety, but hes not ed reed or even polamalu...

makes no sense to give him 10 mil per season...ugh

get a 2nd and 4th and move on.

nix said this draft is the deepest at safety in 10 years...

safety just doesnt hold that much value

They will need a trade partner. That wont be easy to find this close to the draft.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

My personal salary cap philosophy is to stop screwing around and pay the players you draft who are both young and elite at their positions. It's not a complicated strategy. You want to deal Byrd for Mingo even though we literally just dropped $140 million on pass rushers a year ago? How does that make salary cap sense?

ny giants...

and no, you cant pay everyone.

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so another team is going to miss the fact that this is such a deep saftey draft and give up 2 high picks for byrd? id say highly unlikely.


not if they want a proven pro bowl caliber safety.... it depends on their situation, much like the bucs and revis

[NOT THE DUDE...]

My personal salary cap philosophy is to stop screwing around and pay the players you draft who are both young and elite at their positions. It's not a complicated strategy. You want to deal Byrd for Mingo even though we literally just dropped $140 million on pass rushers a year ago? How does that make salary cap sense?

mark anderson is coming off an injury and will be 30, outside of that we have arthur moats as an edge guy opposite mario.....

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also, mingo can be a 3tech on 3rd down also...

[sam5767]

Has Byrd signed the franchise tender yet? I don't think we can trade him or even discuss trading him until he does....

[mjt328]

ITS NOT A MATTER OF WILLING, ITS CALLED A SALARY CAP. why is this so hard to understand?

you get robert lester and a possible 1st or 2nd... and the price is cheaper...

Oh, I understand the salary cap. The problem is, the Bills would rather overpay a bunch of mediocre players - instead of overpaying for the PRODUCTIVE players on their roster.

They have no problem throwing $3-4 million at a guy who makes little-to-no difference on gameday (see Chris Kelsay, Spencer Johnson, Brad Smith, etc.). But when a homegrown Pro-Bowl performer wants $8-10 million, the Bills start shopping him around.

Add up the salary cap figures for Manny Lawson, Alan Branch, Leodis McKelvin, Tarvaris Jackson and Kevin Kolb. It comes to something like $12-13 million for the 2013 season for 2 backup quarterbacks, a punt returner/nickel cornerback, a backup nose tackle and a decent outside linebacker. Do the math. That money could have been used to easily re-sign Andy Levitre and extend Byrd - with some left over.

THESE are the guys we should be trading, cutting and dumping from the roster. THESE are the guys who are wasting away the salary cap. THESE are the guys who can be replaced pretty easy with draft picks, undrafted free agents and vets willing to play for the league minimum. Would our offense really miss Brad Smith? Do you think the coaches are frantic trying to find a replacement for Chris Kelsay? Is the return game so important that we absolutely needed Leodis McKelvin?

Players like Byrd cannot be realistically replaced with a draft pick, unless you get extremely lucky and hit the jackpot. Odds are MUCH more likely that you are significantly downgrading the roster by letting him walk. THESE are the players that you pay!!!!

[don137]

Kam Chancellor who made the pro bowl at safety last year signed a 4 year 28 million dollar contract extension with Seattle the other day. I think this is a good benchmark to go by for Byrd. 4 year 32 million seems reasonable. Byrd is a little better than Chancellor but not 3MM per season better.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Oh, I understand the salary cap. The problem is, the Bills would rather overpay a bunch of mediocre players - instead of overpaying for the PRODUCTIVE players on their roster.

They have no problem throwing $3-4 million at a guy who makes little-to-no difference on gameday (see Chris Kelsay, Spencer Johnson, Brad Smith, etc.). But when a homegrown Pro-Bowl performer wants $8-10 million, the Bills start shopping him around.



Add up the salary cap figures for Manny Lawson, Alan Branch, Leodis McKelvin, Tarvaris Jackson and Kevin Kolb. It comes to something like $12-13 million for the 2013 season for 2 backup quarterbacks, a punt returner/nickel cornerback, a backup nose tackle and a decent outside linebacker. Do the math. That money could have been used to easily re-sign Andy Levitre and extend Byrd - with some left over.

THESE are the guys we should be trading, cutting and dumping from the roster. THESE are the guys who are wasting away the salary cap. THESE are the guys who can be replaced pretty easy with draft picks, undrafted free agents and vets willing to play for the league minimum. Would our offense really miss Brad Smith? Do you think the coaches are frantic trying to find a replacement for Chris Kelsay? Is the return game so important that we absolutely needed Leodis McKelvin?

Players like Byrd cannot be realistically replaced with a draft pick, unless you get extremely lucky and hit the jackpot. Odds are MUCH more likely that you are significantly downgrading the roster by letting him walk. THESE are the players that you pay!!!!


i am not arguing about wasting money on average players, rather byrd is not worth 10 mil per

[NOT THE DUDE...]

you are confusing my opinion of byrd and the cap with giving an endorsement to kelsay/brad smith tarvaris jackson signings... thats a straw man. i dont hold that position

[mjt328]

the pats have a very similar philosophy


The Patriots rarely, if ever, let a Pro Bowl player walk in the prime of his career.

Guys like Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Logan Mankins, Ty Law and Matt Light -- they ALL got paid when they first became free agents.

New England didn't cut the leash on Warren or Law until they hit 30 years old.

[psubills62]

If the draft is deep at safety, why wouldn't other teams just take a safety rather than giving up a high or multiple picks for Byrd?

[justasportsfan]

Please Thursday... hurry up and get here.

so more threads will be created about how the bills are trading Spiller to a team for this years second?

[NOT THE DUDE...]

If the draft is deep at safety, why wouldn't other teams just take a safety rather than giving up a high or multiple picks for Byrd?

you havent read the thread...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

The Patriots rarely, if ever, let a Pro Bowl player walk in the prime of his career.

Guys like Ty Warren, Vince Wilfork, Logan Mankins, Ty Law and Matt Light -- they ALL got paid when they first became free agents.

New England didn't cut the leash on Warren or Law until they hit 30 years old.

yes they have, remember deion branch, lawyer milloy, wes welker and tons of other players who would have destroyed their cap...

maybe if we cut smith and a couple other overpaid vets we can keep him, but i personally would never, ever invest 10 mil per in a safety unless they are hof awesome, ed reed...

[mjt328]

you are confusing my opinion of byrd and the cap with giving an endorsement to kelsay/brad smith tarvaris jackson signings... thats a straw man. i dont hold that position

You acknowledge Byrd is one of the NFL's top safeties. However, you feel the Bills should trade him because he's too expensive and zapping up too much of the salary cap.

I say the better option is to extend Byrd, and quit signing average players (like Kelsay, Smith, Jackson) for anything over the veteran minimum.


So the question is.... If Byrd isn't worth $10 million, then what is he worth?
If you dump him and have $10 million to spend, who do you use it on?

So far, the only plan I've seen you suggest is dumping our Pro Bowl safety and replacing him with a 4th round draft prospect. I fail to see how this makes the Bills better.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

its plain stupid. aaron williams can do just as good

[NOT THE DUDE...]

You acknowledge Byrd is one of the NFL's top safeties. However, you feel the Bills should trade him because he's too expensive and zapping up too much of the salary cap.

I say the better option is to extend Byrd, and quit signing average players (like Kelsay, Smith, Jackson) for anything over the veteran minimum.


So the question is.... If Byrd isn't worth $10 million, then what is he worth?
If you dump him and have $10 million to spend, who do you use it on?

So far, the only plan I've seen you suggest is dumping our Pro Bowl safety and replacing him with a 4th round draft prospect. I fail to see how this makes the Bills better.

i totally agree about the average players, lunch pail kelsay types.

generally speaking, im not willing to invest that much in a safety, thats just me...

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i would much rather get the 1st rd pick if someone bit on that plus a mid rd pick and take lester/thomas like i said earlier...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

would love to see the jets give us 13 for byrd... not gonna happen, but if they said yeah, i would take mingo!

[NOT THE DUDE...]

its the same thing as guard and levitre.

if we had say matt ryan, i would constantly invest high in pass rushers, ots, and a number 1 wr... and keep investing high in pass rushers/dline... thats just me.

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i would literally take a pass rusher every year in the 1st 4rds... jmo

[mjt328]

yes they have, remember deion branch, lawyer milloy, wes welker and tons of other players who would have destroyed their cap...

maybe if we cut smith and a couple other overpaid vets we can keep him, but i personally would never, ever invest 10 mil per in a safety unless they are hof awesome, ed reed...


Deion Branch never made a Pro Bowl, never had a 1,000 yard season and never caught more than 5 touchdowns in a single season. He was an easily replaceable slot receiver who was tremendously overvalued because he won the Super Bowl MVP once. The Patriots knew he was only average and jumped when Seattle offered them a 1st Round pick.

Lawyer Milloy got paid by the Patriots on his first UFA contract, and was released just before hitting 30 years old.

Wes Welker got paid by the Patriots back in 2007. They didn't try really hard to re-sign him this year because he's 31 years old.


Like I said before. New England PAYS their top players when they are in the prime of their careers. They are more willing to let guys walk after 30, because at that point most guys are going downhill. If you want to bring this discussion up again in 2017-2018, then fine. But right now, Jairus Byrd is at the top of his game. We need to pay him.

[feldspar]

Deion Branch never made a Pro Bowl, never had a 1,000 yard season and never caught more than 5 touchdowns in a single season. He was an easily replaceable slot receiver who was tremendously overvalued because he won the Super Bowl MVP once. The Patriots knew he was only average and jumped when Seattle offered them a 1st Round pick.

Lawyer Milloy got paid by the Patriots on his first UFA contract, and was released just before hitting 30 years old.

Wes Welker got paid by the Patriots back in 2007. They didn't try really hard to re-sign him this year because he's 31 years old.


Like I said before. New England PAYS their top players when they are in the prime of their careers. They are more willing to let guys walk after 30, because at that point most guys are going downhill. If you want to bring this discussion up again in 2017-2018, then fine. But right now, Jairus Byrd is at the top of his game. We need to pay him.

Until they slapped the franchise tag on him last year, the Patriots PAYED Welker $3 million per year on average...for five years. That's nothing.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

its plain stupid. aaron williams can do just as good

That's ridiculous. You keep wafting back and forth between saying Byrd is a Top 10 safety and claiming he's an average guy we can replace with a converted bust at CB.

[DraftBoy]

Please just stop.

And by that I mean please just stop responding. There is no point to this discussion.

[trapezeus]

NOT THE DUDE and MARCEL DAREUS POWER and whatever his all caps name was before hand just posts in waves and they typically are nonsense.

no where do you see that this trade is happening. and there is no justification on why you would let byrd go when he is a player who can get better with a better rush. his price tag over 4-6 years will eventually be the going rate for Safeties, but you'll have a great one. and if you get a rush, he'll get back to be picking off passes left and right.

but the all caps poster also wants you to just select any one of these random qb's because we don't have one.

so don't pay for performance, but select on random need.

you need a plan and you need to execute that plan. this thread is along the lines of most of NTD's posts...worthless.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

NOT THE DUDE and MARCEL DAREUS POWER and whatever his all caps name was before hand just posts in waves and they typically are nonsense.

no where do you see that this trade is happening. and there is no justification on why you would let byrd go when he is a player who can get better with a better rush. his price tag over 4-6 years will eventually be the going rate for Safeties, but you'll have a great one. and if you get a rush, he'll get back to be picking off passes left and right.

but the all caps poster also wants you to just select any one of these random qb's because we don't have one.

so don't pay for performance, but select on random need.

you need a plan and you need to execute that plan. this thread is along the lines of most of NTD's posts...worthless.

again, when you compare safety and qb, it shows you dont know what you are talking about. we can just agree to disagree. i dont think its wise

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That's ridiculous. You keep wafting back and forth between saying Byrd is a Top 10 safety and claiming he's an average guy we can replace with a converted bust at CB.

i never said he was average, rather safety and its value as a position is easy to replace... its 100% analogous to levitre

[mjt328]

Until they slapped the franchise tag on him last year, the Patriots PAYED Welker $3 million per year on average...for five years. That's nothing.

True. He was underpaid compared to other receivers.

But the point of my post was that New England does not let 26 year old Pro Bowlers out the door. The extended Welker and kept him under contract until he reached 31 years old. Then they replaced him with a younger version.

[trapezeus]

again, when you compare safety and qb, it shows you dont know what you are talking about. we can just agree to disagree. i dont think its wise

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i never said he was average, rather safety and its value as a position is easy to replace... its 100% analogous to levitre

do you want a team properly built based on the parameters we've been given? if there was an andrew luck/RGIII/Marino/Manning etc, then you take that QB and build around him.

If you have a team of dead beat qb's and have to select another one that may be a deadbeat, you might as well start strengthening the rest of your team. and if you have a new coach, he should probably start solidifying the trenches with players he likes for schemes he wants to run. if you have a good WR or a good Safety, you keep them.

and again, with the way the cap rising for most year in the last 15, you sign a hefty contract now with upfront money, and in the second year, that player will be well compensated, hardly a drag to the cap and you've built good will.

the bills simply don't have enough weapons on offense to give a mediocre qb a chance to get better. and the bills have nicely set themselves up to take a qb and let him learn. and if he doesn't look like he's getting it and the kolb and Tjax show is as terrible as we suspect, you can get a shot at a top qb next year with a 2nd year veteran qb ready to show what he can do. if he's no good, you cut him and go with the other guy, and if he's good, you got a great problem on your hands.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

do you want a team properly built based on the parameters we've been given? if there was an andrew luck/RGIII/Marino/Manning etc, then you take that QB and build around him.

If you have a team of dead beat qb's and have to select another one that may be a deadbeat, you might as well start strengthening the rest of your team. and if you have a new coach, he should probably start solidifying the trenches with players he likes for schemes he wants to run. if you have a good WR or a good Safety, you keep them.

well, i agree about qb at 8, but the thread is about byrd and his value relative to the cap

and again, with the way the cap rising for most year in the last 15, you sign a hefty contract now with upfront money, and in the second year, that player will be well compensated, hardly a drag to the cap and you've built good will.

the bills simply don't have enough weapons on offense to give a mediocre qb a chance to get better. and the bills have nicely set themselves up to take a qb and let him learn. and if he doesn't look like he's getting it and the kolb and Tjax show is as terrible as we suspect, you can get a shot at a top qb next year with a 2nd year veteran qb ready to show what he can do. if he's no good, you cut him and go with the other guy, and if he's good, you got a great problem on your hands.

[trapezeus]

if you have a performing stock, would you sell it simply becaues you think you could find another cheaper stock?
and would you buy a stock in a battered industry simply because you think need exposure in that sector?

these are the points you have been making about safety in this thread and QB in another.

you are clearly frustrated like all of us on how bad the qb situation is. but you can't jam a square peg into a round hole on this. where the team is and what they need to get done to hand an offense to a new guy with promise is light years away. you had a bad team to an average qb, he will fall apart. and we don't know if we are getting anything better than an average qb.

for safety, you have a performing player. you can sign him to a contract that makes sense. the bills have cap space. they need a play maker on defense and they have 1 in byrd. now they need a game changing LB. if they have a ILB/OLB that makes defenses struggle, everyone of the front 7 will get that much better at getting to the qb. which means byrd won't have to keep pinching in on run support. and ifyou put him back as a ball hawk, you are asking him to do what he does best with qb's who are hurried.

[BillsFever21]

]here is the thing, players come and go now, you simply cannot resign everyone,[/B] so getting more and more picks, and then solving the qb spot is how you stay good for a long time.

only pass rushers and maybe a great wr or lt deserve that type of money.

its why von miller went 2nd overall over dareus or a guard or safety......

Of course you can't sign everyone but we already let Levitre walk with that same excuse. Now you want to let Byrd also walk over the same excuse. I guess we can use that excuse for the next few good players we have drafted when they become FA's.

[Bert102176]

Would be a jack-ass move to trade one of the best safeties in the league

[pmoon6]

is that what i said?



Posted By NOT THE DUDE
the d sucked because of wanny and our minor league qb

[trapezeus]

Would be a jack-ass move to trade one of the best safeties in the league


correction...one of the best safeties playing on the worst defense. can you imagine how good he could be if he was just playing deep safety with a ton of film study. the guy probably would easly have 10 picks in the season.

but some people like the cheap approach the bills have, get scared away by big contracts to good players and then resign mckelvin and kelsay.

[BillsFever21]

Guys we can't sign everyone. There is no need to dish out big money for the few good players we draft. Maybe we can re-sign some more guys like McKelvin and Kelsay instead and make them career Buffalo Bills. Terrell Troupe should be a free agent very soon. Maybe we can re-sign him to an extension instead if he actually makes the team and plays some this season. Either him or Alex Carrington.

[BillsFever21]

The only way I would think about trading him is if there wasn't any chance on reaching a contract extension. If that was the case then I would want to get something out of him. Whether it was picks in this draft or next years draft or some in each one would be fine with me. I actually wouldn't mind them being in next years draft if it came down to that.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

correction...one of the best safeties playing on the worst defense. can you imagine how good he could be if he was just playing deep safety with a ton of film study. the guy probably would easly have 10 picks in the season.

but some people like the cheap approach the bills have, get scared away by big contracts to good players and then resign mckelvin and kelsay.

respectfully, its not cheap, rather math...

[NOT THE DUDE...]

10 mil per for a safety???? ok...

[feldspar]

10 mil per for a safety???? ok...

Where exactly are you getting that figure from?

[BADTHINGSMAN]

I am very iffy on trading him. Need to build a strong team. Trading proven guys for rookies isn't a given fix. That being said letting him walk for nothing would suck as well. I hate the "he isnt Ed Reed or Polumalu" both those guys aren't what they use to be and Id take Byrd over either of them now. Best case scenario is Buffalo and Byrd get a deal done.

[trapezeus]

respectfully, its not cheap, rather math...

at the end of the day, the bills would rather overpay a bum to get to the cap minimum, then have a player that performs and then asks for a renegotiation. They want their cost certainty ahead of their ability to compete. and in the bills world, these are exclusive items.

they are the worst run team in the league for a reason.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

at the end of the day, the bills would rather overpay a bum to get to the cap minimum, then have a player that performs and then asks for a renegotiation. They want their cost certainty ahead of their ability to compete. and in the bills world, these are exclusive items.

they are the worst run team in the league for a reason.

i agree here, lets see how it unfolds with a new coach/ and ralph not in the picture anymore...

maybe we can resign him, but if its more than kam chancellor.... then no