A few comments on the Manuel pick

[OpIv37]

First, apparently the NFL GM's agreed with the general assessment by sports media, draftniks and fans that this is a weak QB class. Only one QB in the first round, and not until 16.

Second, I like the trade down. Nix picked up two extra picks in a draft where we started with just six, and still had his choice of QB's in the first round.
Unfortunately, the Pats, Dolphins and Jets have a ton of picks and it will be difficult to close the talent gap with them having better opportunities to improve than we do, but that's out of Nix's control. He made a good move to attempt to mitigate the situation.

Third, while I admittedly don't know much about Manuel specifically, I'm skeptical of the pick. I didn't see one pre-draft mock or analysis that had him ahead of Geno Smith, and most had him behind Barkley and/or Nassib as well. The Bills really did put all their eggs in one basket, because if he fails, in 3 years we'll have a new coaching staff picking in the top 10 once again.

[ublinkwescore]

If he fails, it is most likely business as usual for us. If he succeeds, great.... But we were long overdue to take the risk

[OpIv37]

If he fails, it is most likely business as usual for us. If he succeeds, great.... But we were long overdue to take the risk

Well, our top receivers are Stevie and, uh, TJ Graham. We have no G's and our best TE may not be back from injury when the season starts. So we're not exactly putting him in a position to succeed.

[alnilla]

The Dolphins lost a couple picks. Pats do the same thing every year trade back they draft 10 players a year and only a couple turn out decent.

[DynaPaul]

You can whiff on any other position and still get some kind of use out of the guy but when you whiff on a QB it sets the franchise back for years. I'm not happy with this pick but I'm hoping that we didn't whiff again.

[OpIv37]

The Dolphins lost a couple picks. Pats do the same thing every year trade back they draft 10 players a year and only a couple turn out decent.

A couple turn out decent? They've won the division- what, like 11 out of the last 12 years? I'd say that's more than "decent."

[justasportsfan]

don't know how Ej will pan out. Everything will depend on how good Marrone and Hackett are at developing qb's. They can either be the next Harbaugh or Dick Jauron. The most important thing is that they got the qb they wanted and didn't have to settle.

This FO knew Nassib in and out and yet they took EJ. Says a lot.

[RedEyE]

There are a lot of unknowns at this point. New coaches, new systems, new players.....it's every bit as exciting as it is nerve racking.

Based on the Bills history a true fan has to be skeptical to anything this front office does. But, I really think they did OK on this pick. For the record, I would have been fine with Geno Smith at the 16th overall as well, but I really think Manuel is going to be a better fit for this offense.

[trapezeus]

i think EJ is vince young in year one. his athletcism will make it hard for defenses to get him until there is more tape on him. but once they form an answer, he is going to have to get better with his accuracy and he's going to have to be able to dissect a defense.

He's clearly not vince young in the brains department as he has a good GPA and is in the middle of his masters. So he comes of much less entitled.

but it will be up to the coaches to make him excellent. and if he doesn't get there, he may be very JP like.

I didn't want geno and nassib would be a better fit if you needed him day 1 to start. but if EJ is sitting the bench for the first 4 weeks to a year, he really could get good without taking all the knocks.

[jamze132]

I think we could have gotten him in RD2.

[Historian]

i think EJ is vince young in year one. his athletcism will make it hard for defenses to get him

.

And at 6'5, 237 even if they get to him, he will be hard to take down.

The more I think about it, the more I like it....let Kolb be the tackling dummy for a year, until he learns the pro game.

[alnilla]

A couple turn out decent? They've won the division- what, like 11 out of the last 12 years? I'd say that's more than "decent."

There was a topic about this I believe last year? Its not all about the draft its about who they pick up in free agency. Also there QB is one of the best in the league. Its not because they draft so awesome every year.

[ServoBillieves]

I think we could have gotten him in RD2.

But we took him in RD1. Deal with it.

[mysticsoto]

Well, our top receivers are Stevie and, uh, TJ Graham. We have no G's and our best TE may not be back from injury when the season starts. So we're not exactly putting him in a position to succeed.

I doubt EJ will start this season. He'd have to have a phenomenal training camp. If you or anyone is expecting grand results this yr, you will be disappointed. This is a move that they expect to pay dividends in the years to come. Not this yr. And I'm okay w/that. For our 2nd rd pick, we'll likely have our pick of WRs b'cse there will likely be a run on the QBs left early in the second rd - which is good for us. That leaves us a great WR pick and maybe even a gem @another position (CB?) that we can take. I don't think we'll be going LB in the 2nd. We could go Guard, but I'm thinking we'll do that w/the 3rd rd. My best guess? First 2nd rd pick will be WR Hunter. 6'4" and blazing 4.44 speed. He's coming off an injury, but again, we are planning long term here, so if he's only 80-90% early this yr of what he was looking like he could be, that's fine.

[Night Train]

Manuel said the Bills were all over him at the Senior Bowl drills and he told his agent then he believed Buffalo would take him after talking with Marrone and Hackett. The Bills never had any intention of selecting the less athletic, smaller Barkley,Nassib and others and disguised it well.
This was their guy and 1st round means locking him up for 5 years, instead of 4. Plus they have 3 picks tonight. Mayock & Gruden love the guy and he does fit what the Bills want to run on Offense. Read option/pistol/k-gun..whatever.

They're ALL a gamble and it's up to the coaches to ready him and put him in the right system to succeed. Of all the QB's, he was the best fit for the Bills by a mile.

[mjt328]

I was disappointed they didn't go for Geno Smith. To me, he's got almost the same athletic upside as EJ Manuel - but with a better arm, better accuracy and a lot more production on his resume.

With that said, I was extremely happy they didn't take Ryan Nassib. To me, the only advantage he had over the other QB prospects was system familiarity. And that's a terrible reason to draft a player.


Listening to the post-draft press conference, it's clear the front office was very impressed with Manuel's knowledge of the game. That is something that doesn't show up on film. And there were plenty of rumors over the last 2-3 months that suggested Geno Smith wasn't the best prospect in that area. So maybe that was the reason for us passing on Geno.

Overall, I think EJ has a lot of potential. I give the Bills credit for trading down and still getting their top guy. We'll see soon enough whether he was the right choice.

[better days]

A couple turn out decent? They've won the division- what, like 11 out of the last 12 years? I'd say that's more than "decent."

MANY times the Pats* won the division it was not due to how good they were, but how BAD the rest of the division was.

[Buddo]

I really don't think that people should be expecting Manuel to start this year either. He might make it towards the end of the season, but I wouldn't want him exposed unnecessarily, and with a 'winner' of a QB comp between Kolb and Jackson, I think we will be ok this year. I also think that taking Manuel at #16 was a cute move in respect of removing some of those starting expectations, in the first place. Top 10 drafted QB = expected starter. #16 drafted QB, much less so.
I'm fairly impressed that when all is said and done, they went with the guy who has the most upside, and true potential to be a franchise QB, capable of running any sort of offense you like, something that hasn't really been made much of, when it should, imho.

I also think that getting the extra 2nd round pick, could turn out to be a huge benefit to this team. Without looking too hard at everyone left, I'd say there are a lot of good Wrs who are going to be there when we pick, and also a good TE, maybe two. The LBers have been left on the outside looking in so far, also, so I can comfortably see any combination of WR, TE, LB happening for our next 3 picks, and the chances are, they will all be decent players.

[better days]

I was disappointed they didn't go for Geno Smith. To me, he's got almost the same athletic upside as EJ Manuel - but with a better arm, better accuracy and a lot more production on his resume.

With that said, I was extremely happy they didn't take Ryan Nassib. To me, the only advantage he had over the other QB prospects was system familiarity. And that's a terrible reason to draft a player.


Listening to the post-draft press conference, it's clear the front office was very impressed with Manuel's knowledge of the game. That is something that doesn't show up on film. And there were plenty of rumors over the last 2-3 months that suggested Geno Smith wasn't the best prospect in that area. So maybe that was the reason for us passing on Geno.

Overall, I think EJ has a lot of potential. I give the Bills credit for trading down and still getting their top guy. We'll see soon enough whether he was the right choice.

Well, I disagree. I think Manuel has a much stronger arm & is more accurate, especially on the long throws. Anyone that did not see the Senior Bowl should look it up on Youtube. Manuel was far and away the BEST QB in that game & threw some GREAT passes.

Geno couldn't even beat the Orange & Nassib looked better than Smith in the pinstripe bowl.

[psubills62]

MANY times the Pats* won the division it was not due to how good they were, but how BAD the rest of the division was.
I think there was a guy named Brady who had something to do with it, too.

They've hit on their share of picks (mostly offensive), but defensive picks haven't really been that great. There's a reason they keep drafting DB's (and WR's, actually) over and over and over again.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Well, our top receivers are Stevie and, uh, TJ Graham. We have no G's and our best TE may not be back from injury when the season starts. So we're not exactly putting him in a position to succeed.

This why Kolb or Jackson should start this year. The Bills need to bring this guy along the right way. I could see them bringing him on much like San Fran did with Kaepernick. In the meantime, get us some weapons.
Graham looked like he was coming on a little bit at the end of the season and I think he has a shot at becoming a solid #3. There are very good receivers who will be sitting there at 41 and I don't think they should pass on Woods or Hunter if they are indeed there. You can find a good TE in the 3rd or even 4th. Reed and Kasa come to mind. That would be a good start.

[ThunderGun]

I'm thrilled that we moved back. I would have liked to have traded back again...but I'm ok with the fact that they didn't. Manuel wasn't really on my radar, but that's mostly because I had convinced myself that they would be taking either Nassib or Barkley (two guys I was not interested in a month ago, but had convinced myself that I would be ok with). Honestly, every time I've seen Manuel on TV I've been impressed. He is huge, he's the most physically gifted QB in this draft class. Obviously he's raw, but that's why the brought in Kolb. At least now we know that they got the guy they really wanted, and there will be no excuses if he/they fail.

Honestly, it was one of the best Day 1's for the Bills in recent memory. Got the best QB in the draft (in their opinion...and they better know a lot more about it than me, because it's their job), and got an extra 2nd round pick in the process. And ****ed the Jets out of taking Austin. I loved that the Jets used up their entire time to get the #9 pick in. They must not have known who they wanted, after Austin got taken.

[OpIv37]

I'm thrilled that we moved back. I would have liked to have traded back again...but I'm ok with the fact that they didn't. Manuel wasn't really on my radar, but that's mostly because I had convinced myself that they would be taking either Nassib or Barkley (two guys I was not interested in a month ago, but had convinced myself that I would be ok with). Honestly, every time I've seen Manuel on TV I've been impressed. He is huge, he's the most physically gifted QB in this draft class. Obviously he's raw, but that's why the brought in Kolb. At least now we know that they got the guy they really wanted, and there will be no excuses if he/they fail.

Honestly, it was one of the best Day 1's for the Bills in recent memory. Got the best QB in the draft (in their opinion...and they better know a more about it than me, because it's their job), and got an extra 2nd round pick in the process. And ****ed the Jets out of taking Austin. I loved that the Jets used up their entire time to get the #9 pick in. They must not have known who they wanted, after Austin got taken.

Don't make that faulty assumption. People on this board have proven themselves smarter than the Bills' FO dozens of times.

[mysticsoto]

Don't make that faulty assumption. People on this board have proven themselves smarter than the Bills' FO dozens of times.

Very true! We had 1st dibs at DE what? 5 yrs ago...and we took...Maybin??? I questioned that terrible move back then and even now, yrs later, I still can't accept that we did that!!!

[ThunderGun]

Don't make that faulty assumption. People on this board have proven themselves smarter than the Bills' FO dozens of times.

That's definitely true. Myself included. It's probably just wishful thinking on my part that the people who are paid to know this business inside and out would be better at it than I am. But if I were running the draft, our offense would consist of Caepernick, Lynch, Freddy, Stevie, Demaryius Thomas and Tyler Eifert.

[justasportsfan]

NO MORE WHAT IF's with this pick.

What if Fitz had a better arm?
What if Trent could run?
What if we took Kaepernick ?


This is the biggest thing, what if we landed Ben instead of JP. In other words, what if the bills took the qb they wanted then?


While EJ is raw, his physical attributes takes care a lot of the what if's. Any of the qb's in this years draft are projects but I would take a project that had the best physical upside.

[Parzival]

The pats straight up robbed the Vikings at gunpoint with that trade last night. They seriously gave up so much I would call collusion if I didn't know better.

Anyway, the same people complaining about takin Manuel at 16 are the same ones who would complain if we skipped QB altogether or took one in the 7th. They traded back, got a good pick, and still got the QB they wanted. We had to get ahead of that string of teams at the top of the 2nd round who will undoubtedly go QB.

Whether or not Manuel pans out is a different story. But they knew QB was a must, took a small risk by trading down a little. Clearly they weren't willing to risk missing out on their QB of choice again.

[imbondz]

can we stop with the Vince Young comparisons. he set the Titans back 5 years at least, was a turnover machine, and a huge cry baby and a terrible teammate

[OpIv37]

The pats straight up robbed the Vikings at gunpoint with that trade last night. They seriously gave up so much I would call collusion if I didn't know better.

Anyway, the same people complaining about takin Manuel at 16 are the same ones who would complain if we skipped QB altogether or took one in the 7th. They traded back, got a good pick, and still got the QB they wanted. We had to get ahead of that string of teams at the top of the 2nd round who will undoubtedly go QB.

Whether or not Manuel pans out is a different story. But they knew QB was a must, took a small risk by trading down a little. Clearly they weren't willing to risk missing out on their QB of choice again.

I certainly wouldn't be complaining if we didn't take a QB in the first. I've been saying all along that we need to use the #8 pick to get better immediately because this team has so many holes. Whether you like Manuel or not, I don't think ANYONE honestly believes he's a day 1 starter.

Plus, the way things worked out, 3 of the 4 QB's are still available and if we didn't take Manuel all of them may still be available. We could have gotten one of the top 4 in the 2nd.

[psubills62]

I love the trade back. I wish they had traded back again, but I wonder how that might have changed the first round. Would have been easier for other teams to trade up in front of us. Although the Bills did such a good job of smokescreening that Manuel still would have been available, almost certainly.

[mysticsoto]

ESPN's front page has a poll grading the EJ pick of the Bills - let's show solidarity and give him a good grade!

http://espn.go.com/

[trapezeus]

Manuel said the Bills were all over him at the Senior Bowl drills and he told his agent then he believed Buffalo would take him after talking with Marrone and Hackett. The Bills never had any intention of selecting the less athletic, smaller Barkley,Nassib and others and disguised it well.
This was their guy and 1st round means locking him up for 5 years, instead of 4. Plus they have 3 picks tonight. Mayock & Gruden love the guy and he does fit what the Bills want to run on Offense. Read option/pistol/k-gun..whatever.

They're ALL a gamble and it's up to the coaches to ready him and put him in the right system to succeed. Of all the QB's, he was the best fit for the Bills by a mile.

excellent point...and leads the bills to taking their time with him.

[trapezeus]

I love the trade back. I wish they had traded back again, but I wonder how that might have changed the first round. Would have been easier for other teams to trade up in front of us. Although the Bills did such a good job of smokescreening that Manuel still would have been available, almost certainly.

compared to previous other years, trade back value just isn't there as the trader. there isn't much coming back to move back and take on the risk of losing a player.

So trading back again would hvae probably not gotten a lot of 2 and 3rd picks and more late round picks. with the bills lack of talent, they need more talent, not just bodies with slim chances of making the roster.

[psubills62]

compared to previous other years, trade back value just isn't there as the trader. there isn't much coming back to move back and take on the risk of losing a player.

So trading back again would hvae probably not gotten a lot of 2 and 3rd picks and more late round picks. with the bills lack of talent, they need more talent, not just bodies with slim chances of making the roster.
Honestly, we had enough 2013 draft picks at that point that I might look for a future pick. Not sure anyone was willing to trade those, but I'm a fan of collecting some future picks, as you tend to get good value on them.

[Bill Cody]

It's possible we were willing to move down again but didn't have the offers

Philly had been all over Manuel so it is very unlikely he lasted until 41. I would have been happy if we could have moved down another 7-10 spots but the fact that we didn't may tell you how much better we liked Manuel than the other choices. Think of this pick in terms of a Joe Flacco who came from Delaware I think. Baltimore knew there would be a pretty steep learning curve but they felt strongly given time and coaching he could be a franchise player- look at his progression. We have to have the same kind of patience with Manuel. He is not ready for prime time now but you have to see the potential payoff. Guys like Nassib and Barkley would have been better in the short run but would they ever be franchise QB's? I guess we'll see.

I'd like to see us devise gameplans this year that let manuel get his feet wet but not overwhelm him- maybe 10-15 snaps a game in the Pistol or whatever. A full camp and a season running the scout team will help this kid a ton too. I'm already thinking ahead to 2014 for Manuel.

[ThunderGun]

It's possible we were willing to move down again but didn't have the offers

Philly had been all over Manuel so it is very unlikely he lasted until 41. I would have been happy if we could have moved down another 7-10 spots but the fact that we didn't may tell you how much better we liked Manuel than the other choices. Think of this pick in terms of a Joe Flacco who came from Delaware I think. Baltimore knew there would be a pretty steep learning curve but they felt strongly given time and coaching he could be a franchise player- look at his progression. We have to have the same kind of patience with Manuel. He is not ready for prime time now but you have to see the potential payoff. Guys like Nassib and Barkley would have been better in the short run but would they ever be franchise QB's? I guess we'll see.

I'd like to see us devise gameplans this year that let manuel get his feet wet but not overwhelm him- maybe 10-15 snaps a game in the Pistol or whatever. A full camp and a season running the scout team will help this kid a ton too. I'm already thinking ahead to 2014 for Manuel.

Well Buddy said this morning that they had received other calls about moving down again, but he was nervous that Manuel wouldn't be there. Actually, 2 picks after we took Manuel, San Fran gave Dallas their 1st and 3rd (#31 and #74) for the #18 pick.

So theoretically, we could have moved down to #31, and picked up an extra 3rd round pick (the 12th pick in the 3rd). 16 to 31 is a pretty big jump though. If I really wanted Manuel, I don't think I'd risk missing out on him for just a 3rd round pick.

[mysticsoto]

It's possible we were willing to move down again but didn't have the offers

Philly had been all over Manuel so it is very unlikely he lasted until 41. I would have been happy if we could have moved down another 7-10 spots but the fact that we didn't may tell you how much better we liked Manuel than the other choices. Think of this pick in terms of a Joe Flacco who came from Delaware I think. Baltimore knew there would be a pretty steep learning curve but they felt strongly given time and coaching he could be a franchise player- look at his progression. We have to have the same kind of patience with Manuel. He is not ready for prime time now but you have to see the potential payoff. Guys like Nassib and Barkley would have been better in the short run but would they ever be franchise QB's? I guess we'll see.

I'd like to see us devise gameplans this year that let manuel get his feet wet but not overwhelm him- maybe 10-15 snaps a game in the Pistol or whatever. A full camp and a season running the scout team will help this kid a ton too. I'm already thinking ahead to 2014 for Manuel.


I think SF was looking to trade w/us b'cse they wanted a Top Safety (they probably wanted Vaccaro but then had to settle for the next best when the Saints took him) but it doesn't look like Nix wanted to risk falling to the bottom of the 1st rd and still get EJ. Even though no team took a QB afterward, we have no idea if they had EJ rated higher and might have considered taking him otherwise...or if a early 2nd rd team might have considered trading up to then get him. That would have been a high risk to take for the QB that they clearly wanted.

[better days]

Well Buddy said this morning that they had received other calls about moving down again, but he was nervous that Manuel wouldn't be there. Actually, 2 picks after we took Manuel, San Fran gave Dallas their 1st and 3rd (#31 and #74) for the #18 pick.

So theoretically, we could have moved down to #31, and picked up an extra 3rd round pick (the 12th pick in the 3rd). 16 to 31 is a pretty big jump though. If I really wanted Manuel, I don't think I'd risk missing out on him for just a 3rd round pick.

The only way I would have traded with SF is if they gave us their #1 pick next year as well.

[imbondz]

to me the EJ Manuel pick is too risky. It comes down to how well this new coaching staff develops QBs and from history we don't do a good job of that. JK was a beast already when he came here, same with Bledsoe. Those are the only 2 QBs worth a damn we've had over the past 20 years. Neither was developed by the Bills. But, i'm 100% behind Manuel. It's hard to not get excited over his intangibles and potential but it'd be nicer to be excited over someone who had Luck skills already.

[mysticsoto]

to me the EJ Manuel pick is too risky. It comes down to how well this new coaching staff develops QBs and from history we don't do a good job of that. JK was a beast already when he came here, same with Bledsoe. Those are the only 2 QBs worth a damn we've had over the past 20 years. Neither was developed by the Bills. But, i'm 100% behind Manuel. It's hard to not get excited over his intangibles and potential but it'd be nicer to be excited over someone who had Luck skills already.

The problem is, even if an Andrew Luck had been available this yr, @ #8, we still wouldn't have gotten him. Let's hope EJ proves all the naysayers wrong. I like his attitude and character and he does seem to be a hard worker who spends alot of time watching film. Given that he has all the physical attributes, his hard work may pay off in the long run.

[Typ0]

They have kept Traveris Jackson, dumped Fitz and picked up Kolb. Now they took the guy they wanted who looks to not be limited in potential by anything physical. I feel like this is the first time we have really done something positive to address the position of most need in at least several years. Last year we were horrible at the QB position. This coming year we are going to have some actual options and depth. Jackson at this point they must feel he's ready to play as well or they would have let him go. Kolb is going to be our starter and he's going to be twice the QB Fitz was. We are going to end up with a QB on the roster who is competent we can use in a trade at some point. Not to mention with all the QBs falling we might end up taking a flyer on another one available that could turn out to be the best QB in the draft because things change when boys grow into men. You never really can tell which way a kid is going to go. I'm excited. We need to fill some gaps but if we can get solid, consistent leadership and play from the QB position we might be able to stay around .500 and get better and have a chance to play meaningful games in December. That's a huge step up if you ask me....

[Typ0]

to me the EJ Manuel pick is too risky. It comes down to how well this new coaching staff develops QBs and from history we don't do a good job of that. JK was a beast already when he came here, same with Bledsoe. Those are the only 2 QBs worth a damn we've had over the past 20 years. Neither was developed by the Bills. But, i'm 100% behind Manuel. It's hard to not get excited over his intangibles and potential but it'd be nicer to be excited over someone who had Luck skills already.

Do you really think Bledsoe was a beast? He had some real drawbacks when he was brought into this program. Yeah, he could throw the ball but he tried too hard. He needed to be on a better team from top to bottom and he would have won a superbowl. Bledsoe was no where near the beast Kelly was. Kelly could dig deep no matter what was handed to him and play smart and win.

[trapezeus]

anyone know EJ's wonderlic? he is credited with being smart based on his GPA, but he's a communication major at FSU. Not exactly a rhode scholar type acheivement.

but he comes across as not just athlete first and student of game second. i think that score would kind of give us an idea how realistic it will be for him to learn a new offense and get onto the field.

[imbondz]

Do you really think Bledsoe was a beast? He had some real drawbacks when he was brought into this program. Yeah, he could throw the ball but he tried too hard. He needed to be on a better team from top to bottom and he would have won a superbowl. Bledsoe was no where near the beast Kelly was. Kelly could dig deep no matter what was handed to him and play smart and win.

in general, compared to all the other QBs we've had, yes Bledsoe was a beast

[sukie]

anyone know EJ's wonderlic? he is credited with being smart based on his GPA, but he's a communication major at FSU. Not exactly a rhode scholar type acheivement.

but he comes across as not just athlete first and student of game second. i think that score would kind of give us an idea how realistic it will be for him to learn a new offense and get onto the field.

1. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse 41
2. Matt Barkley, USC 30
3. E. J. Manuel, Florida State 28
3. Landry Jones, Oklahoma 28
5. Mike Glennon, N.C. State 26
6. Tyler Bray, Tennessee 24
6. Geno Smith, West Virginia 24
6. Zac Dysert, Miami (Ohio) 24
9. Matt Scott, Arizona 22
10. Tyler Wilson, Arkansas 20

http://outkickthecoverage.com/wonderlic-scores-leak-for-quarterbacks.php

[Buddo]

to me the EJ Manuel pick is too risky. It comes down to how well this new coaching staff develops QBs and from history we don't do a good job of that. JK was a beast already when he came here, same with Bledsoe. Those are the only 2 QBs worth a damn we've had over the past 20 years. Neither was developed by the Bills. But, i'm 100% behind Manuel. It's hard to not get excited over his intangibles and potential but it'd be nicer to be excited over someone who had Luck skills already.

The only thing history can tell us, is that the combination of Marrone and Hackett, improved Nassib to the point where he was touted as a potential 1st round pick, and might still go at the very top of the 2nd round, to the Jags. How the Bills haven't developed QBs in the past as an organization, is irrelevant, as coaches etc. have changed through the years.

[trapezeus]

1. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse 41
2. Matt Barkley, USC 30
3. E. J. Manuel, Florida State 28
3. Landry Jones, Oklahoma 28
5. Mike Glennon, N.C. State 26
6. Tyler Bray, Tennessee 24
6. Geno Smith, West Virginia 24
6. Zac Dysert, Miami (Ohio) 24
9. Matt Scott, Arizona 22
10. Tyler Wilson, Arkansas 20

http://outkickthecoverage.com/wonderlic-scores-leak-for-quarterbacks.php


are they teach to the test or is everyone really just muddled in the middle. there is usually one guy who is good for like a 5-10 score. i guess that speaks to how average they are.

[imbondz]

The only thing history can tell us, is that the combination of Marrone and Hackett, improved Nassib to the point where he was touted as a potential 1st round pick, and might still go at the very top of the 2nd round, to the Jags. How the Bills haven't developed QBs in the past as an organization, is irrelevant, as coaches etc. have changed through the years.

I agree with your Marrone / Hackett point, but not the latter regarding our organization through the years. I don't think it's irrelevant how the Bills have developed QBs in the past.

[Buddo]

anyone know EJ's wonderlic? he is credited with being smart based on his GPA, but he's a communication major at FSU. Not exactly a rhode scholar type acheivement.

but he comes across as not just athlete first and student of game second. i think that score would kind of give us an idea how realistic it will be for him to learn a new offense and get onto the field.

He scored 28. There was a post on bbmb that had them. This is the link it came from:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/the-journal-sentinels-bob-mcginn-assesses-the-top-quarterbacks-in-the-draft-next-week-included-is-each-players-height-weight-40yard-dash-time-and-projected-round-rt9i5sb-203862401.html

[Buddo]

I agree with your Marrone / Hackett point, but not the latter regarding our organization through the years. I don't think it's irrelevant how the Bills have developed QBs in the past.

If they had the same guys selecting and coaching them still, then you would be right.
As they haven't, you aren't.

[chernobylwraiths]

can we stop with the Vince Young comparisons. he set the Titans back 5 years at least, was a turnover machine, and a huge cry baby and a terrible teammate

But he DID take them to the playoffs.

[jwenger]

E.J. / C.J. / T.J.

[BertSquirtgum]

i think EJ is vince young in year one. his athletcism will make it hard for defenses to get him until there is more tape on him. but once they form an answer, he is going to have to get better with his accuracy and he's going to have to be able to dissect a defense.

He's clearly not vince young in the brains department as he has a good GPA and is in the middle of his masters. So he comes of much less entitled.

but it will be up to the coaches to make him excellent. and if he doesn't get there, he may be very JP like.

I didn't want geno and nassib would be a better fit if you needed him day 1 to start. but if EJ is sitting the bench for the first 4 weeks to a year, he really could get good without taking all the knocks.

Comparing Manuel to Vince Young made this post worthless.

[The Jokeman]

don't know how Ej will pan out. Everything will depend on how good Marrone and Hackett are at developing qb's. They can either be the next Harbaugh or Dick Jauron. The most important thing is that they got the qb they wanted and didn't have to settle.

This FO knew Nassib in and out and yet they took EJ. Says a lot.
Don't confuse the GM with the coaching staff. As much as fans like to think that GMs and coaches work together I think the truth is they do less than we think. As ultimately GMs/Scouts are looking for guys that they feel fit the position. That's why we took Manuel as mentioned numerous times before Manuel fits the physical description of what you're looking for at the position. Tie in there's talk he has the leadership skills too which is great. The thing that worries me is the belief he is slow to process information which ultimately hold him back from being a great one. The comparisons to Jason Campbell seem to be fair. I just hope we can bring in more talent to make him and the team better. And for what it's worth that Campbell's best "season" came when he was coached by our OC's dad in Oakland. I still would love for the Bills to find a QB coach.

[bf1]

First, apparently the NFL GM's agreed with the general assessment by sports media, draftniks and fans that this is a weak QB class. Only one QB in the first round, and not until 16.

Second, I like the trade down. Nix picked up two extra picks in a draft where we started with just six, and still had his choice of QB's in the first round.
Unfortunately, the Pats, Dolphins and Jets have a ton of picks and it will be difficult to close the talent gap with them having better opportunities to improve than we do, but that's out of Nix's control. He made a good move to attempt to mitigate the situation.

Third, while I admittedly don't know much about Manuel specifically, I'm skeptical of the pick. I didn't see one pre-draft mock or analysis that had him ahead of Geno Smith, and most had him behind Barkley and/or Nassib as well. The Bills really did put all their eggs in one basket, because if he fails, in 3 years we'll have a new coaching staff picking in the top 10 once again.

Agreed. Worth the gamble IMO.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

It's a risk, but a calculated one. He has the tangibles and has the clutch factor (four bowl games, four wins).

As much as the experts may think this was a dumb move, and believe me, I've nevert been afraid to call out stupid drafting on the Bills' part, I don't fault this pick. It is a weak draft and expectations are low.

[trapezeus]

Comparing Manuel to Vince Young made this post worthless.

interesting, because most threads go to crap when you show up.

[trapezeus]

can we stop with the Vince Young comparisons. he set the Titans back 5 years at least, was a turnover machine, and a huge cry baby and a terrible teammate


i said vince young in year 1. before his mental issues really surfaced. he was a good player. he came to buffalo and ran for a 50 yard touchdown which ended our outside shot at playoffs. he had the skills to be good but pissed it away.

i think ifyou toss ej into a game in week 1, you are going ot see an improviser. he hits some big plays, and makes some big mistakes. but he may be able to just wow you a couple times a game.

it is up to the coaches to give him a chance to wow you with pocket skills and deliver all the passes regardless of where the rush is coming from.

I'm not saying he's a nutcase waiting to fall apart.

[Bill Cody]

Well Buddy said this morning that they had received other calls about moving down again, but he was nervous that Manuel wouldn't be there. Actually, 2 picks after we took Manuel, San Fran gave Dallas their 1st and 3rd (#31 and #74) for the #18 pick.

So theoretically, we could have moved down to #31, and picked up an extra 3rd round pick (the 12th pick in the 3rd). 16 to 31 is a pretty big jump though. If I really wanted Manuel, I don't think I'd risk missing out on him for just a 3rd round pick.

That's a long drop for a 3rd. And it's not like the rest of the league are idiots. They would know for sure we were going QB is we made a 2nd trade down. It is not far fetched that one of the teams in front of us in the early 2nd jumped ahead of us at 31. I was thinking if we had an offer to drop 7-10 slots it would have been worth it but who knows for sure. In the end that extra pick is no where near as important as whether Nix is right about Manuel. If he turns out to be great he'll be worth 3 first rounders.

[ThunderGun]

That's a long drop for a 3rd. And it's not like the rest of the league are idiots. They would know for sure we were going QB is we made a 2nd trade down. It is not far fetched that one of the teams in front of us in the early 2nd jumped ahead of us at 31. I was thinking if we had an offer to drop 7-10 slots it would have been worth it but who knows for sure. In the end that extra pick is no where near as important as whether Nix is right about Manuel. If he turns out to be great he'll be worth 3 first rounders.

I agree. I've talked to a couple of Philly fans today, who were pissed, because they were under the impression that Philly was going to trade back into the late-first to grab Manuel. I don't think we could've waited until #31.

[Bill Cody]

Do you really think Bledsoe was a beast? He had some real drawbacks when he was brought into this program. Yeah, he could throw the ball but he tried too hard. He needed to be on a better team from top to bottom and he would have won a superbowl. Bledsoe was no where near the beast Kelly was. Kelly could dig deep no matter what was handed to him and play smart and win.

Pretty hard to know. Kelly did play on better teams top to bottom and still didn't win a SB.

[Bill Cody]

I agree. I've talked to a couple of Philly fans today, who were pissed, because they were under the impression that Philly was going to trade back into the late-first to grab Manuel. I don't think we could've waited until #31.

Yes Philly was showing considerable interest in Manuel so that's very possible.

I have said from the outset that getting sloppy 2nd's or 3rd's on the most important position on the field was not smart. That's why I was thrilled when we traded back but we were still able to have our pick of the litter. Did we pay something of a premium to get Manuel? Sure. But if Manuel is a franchise QB and the others end up as clip board holders or out of the league why does it matter?

[Bill Cody]

i said vince young in year 1. before his mental issues really surfaced.

To me his mental issues surfaced before the draft when he scored like a 5 on the wonderlic. If you give a full effort on that test and score a 5 you are borderline ******ed, sorry if that's politically incorrect. My poodle scored a 4.

[Skooby]

To me his mental issues surfaced before the draft when he scored like a 5 on the wonderlic. If you give a full effort on that test and score a 5 you are borderline ******ed, sorry if that's politically incorrect. My poodle scored a 4.

My Cairn Terrier scored a 5 as well, I wouldn't hand him the rock to throw either.

[jamze132]

But we took him in RD1. Deal with it.

I deal with OBD's shenanigans every year kid.

[OpIv37]

Yes Philly was showing considerable interest in Manuel so that's very possible.

I have said from the outset that getting sloppy 2nd's or 3rd's on the most important position on the field was not smart. That's why I was thrilled when we traded back but we were still able to have our pick of the litter. Did we pay something of a premium to get Manuel? Sure. But if Manuel is a franchise QB and the others end up as clip board holders or out of the league why does it matter?

Except that first choice in this draft is the talent equivalent of the sloppy 2nds and 3rds in most drafts. Buddy Nix's poor management has led to us needing a QB at the worst possible time, or at least the worst in recent memory. The reason so many of us were so skeptical about paying that premium is because the chances of him being a franchise QB are lower than they usually are for the 1st QB taken.

Yeah, if Manuel is a franchise QB, no one's gonna care that we reached. If he's not- and this is the typical Bills draft where our pick flops and the guys taken 2-3 picks after us all end up being great players at positions of need- then the franchise just got set back another 3 years. If that happens, just remember what happens when desperation for a QB trumps judgment.