I see the Bills just couldn't take it..

[k-oneputt]

..they had to get stupid with the 'where smarter then you picks" by their scouts who have to justify themselves.

[Bangarang]

We're*

[The Natrix]

Well, they are at least smarter than all the people on this board that wanted to draft Barkley or Nassib at #8, and for that I am grateful.

[Albany,n.y.]

..they had to get stupid with the 'where smarter then you picks" by their scouts who have to justify themselves.

If you think you can do better, here's some advice: Go to One Bills Drive and sell them on your fantastic abilities to run the team. Then when they laugh you out of the building, come back here and hate on all their decisions.

By this time of the draft, I'm pretty sick & tired of reading posts criticizing the pros who know more than EVERY one of us. The most ridiculous ones are in the late rounds, like last round when we picked a kicker who can actually contribute to this & future teams as opposed to some guy who will get cut in camp or be inactive most games.

[mjt328]

Well, they are at least smarter than all the people on this board that wanted to draft Barkley or Nassib at #8, and for that I am grateful.

We can't say for sure that EJ Manuel would have lasted until #41 if we passed at #16.

But on the same hand, we can't be sure that Manuel wouldn't have dropped to the 3rd Round - just like Barkley and Nassib - if the Bills hadn't taken him. Pre-draft, most experts had those three guys ranked about the same.

[mjt328]

By this time of the draft, I'm pretty sick & tired of reading posts criticizing the pros who know more than EVERY one of us. The most ridiculous ones are in the late rounds, like last round when we picked a kicker who can actually contribute to this & future teams as opposed to some guy who will get cut in camp or be inactive most games.

You know what I get sick of?

When somebody on this board voices their opinion on a player, only to get blasted for not being a pro scout. (Note this only happens when the Bills picks are criticized, not when they are praised for being brilliant.) Every year, I see Bills fans on various message boards screaming for players that end up being tons better than the crap Nix snatches up. Some perfect mid/late round examples from last year - Russell Wilson and Vontaze Burfict.

Just because you are being PAID to do something, does not mean you are good at it.

[OpIv37]

You know what I get sick of?

When somebody on this board voices their opinion on a player, only to get blasted for not being a pro scout. (Note this only happens when the Bills picks are criticized, not when they are praised for being brilliant.) Every year, I see Bills fans on various message boards screaming for players that end up being tons better than the crap Nix snatches up. Some perfect mid/late round examples from last year - Russell Wilson and Vontaze Burfict.

Just because you are being PAID to do something, does not mean you are good at it.

Exactly.

Performance dictates results, not title, and this team doesn't have the performance to earn the benefit of the doubt.

[Night Train]

..they had to get stupid with the 'where smarter then you picks" by their scouts who have to justify themselves.
:blah: At least they passed grammer class.

[JoeMama]

You know what I get sick of?

When somebody on this board voices their opinion on a player, only to get blasted for not being a pro scout. (Note this only happens when the Bills picks are criticized, not when they are praised for being brilliant.) Every year, I see Bills fans on various message boards screaming for players that end up being tons better than the crap Nix snatches up. Some perfect mid/late round examples from last year - Russell Wilson and Vontaze Burfict.

Just because you are being PAID to do something, does not mean you are good at it.

For real. OBD should never be cited as a measuring stick of success.

In any other line of business, the guys on our payroll would be hungry and homeless.

[Night Train]

Performance dictates results

Which means the draft picks get an actual chance to perform before being declared failures or a success.

It works both ways.

[trapezeus]

If you think you can do better, here's some advice: Go to One Bills Drive and sell them on your fantastic abilities to run the team. Then when they laugh you out of the building, come back here and hate on all their decisions.

By this time of the draft, I'm pretty sick & tired of reading posts criticizing the pros who know more than EVERY one of us. The most ridiculous ones are in the late rounds, like last round when we picked a kicker who can actually contribute to this & future teams as opposed to some guy who will get cut in camp or be inactive most games.

the stupid thing isn't that we took a kicker in 6...it's that we let a guy who isn't reliable outside of 40 yards be on the team 10 some years.

given what we knew before the draft, with only 6 picks to start, they got a qb, and got some extra picks. and like all picks, you have to hope they got it right. but it is hard to believe manuel would have been gone with everyone else waiting til 3-4.

but like i said somewhere else, the bills picked exactly who they wanted...no second choices...so this front office has to deal with the either the positives or negatives with manuel's rise or fall.

[Night Train]

the stupid thing isn't that we took a kicker in 6...it's that we let a guy who isn't reliable outside of 40 yards be on the team 10 some years.


WTF are you talking about ? Lindell the last 2 years is 11-13 between 40-49 yards. 1-2 from 50 +. When Granny Gailey actually let him kick, he was quite good. That was conservative coaching, not Lindell.

He may be replaced now but he served us very well for quite a long time. Plus the Ralph is insanely windy in Nov. Dec.

http://www.nfl.com/player/rianlindell/2504046/careerstats

[BertSquirtgum]

..they had to get stupid with the 'where smarter then you picks" by their scouts who have to justify themselves.

I see you couldn't take it. You had to get stupid and make an even stupider thread.

[ublinkwescore]

I see you couldn't take it. You had to get stupid and make an even stupider thread.

You do know ”stupider” is not really a word right?

[JoeMama]

You do know ”stupider” is not really a word right?

Yes it is.

And you're proving why it's a word.

[Night Train]

Stanford HC David Shaw

http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Evaluating-Buffalo-Bills-draft/a3846487-6d30-4813-8679-488a74cfd27f

[feldspar]

The overwhelming majority of fans know next to nothing about mid-to-late round picks. It's questionable what they REALLY know about the earlier picks, too.

Most fans that offer their opinions about these things are just repeating somebody else's opinion that they've read somewhere. For all they know, the person that wrote what they read are doing the same thing...before long, we are talking about third, forth, or fifth-hand opinions. Then they claim the opinion as their own, as if they know something.

Then certain idiots are like "well, I've never heard of this guy, so he must suck." Or "he was ranked so-and-so by such-and-such, so it must be a reach," as if these people gain instant credibility because they have an opinion. Or "OMG, they picked a defensive back in the fifth round...WTF were they thinking?"

This **** isn't rocket science, and the amount of projection that is inherently a part of it is astronomical.

Some of you guys would be embarrassing yourselves here if there wasn't so many other idiots, who pretend to know things, didn't "agree" with you.

[BertSquirtgum]

You do know ”stupider” is not really a word right?

I could have just said more stupid but the correct usage is stupider. No matter how wrong it sounds.

[WagonCircler]

The overwhelming majority of fans know next to nothing about mid-to-late round picks. It's questionable what they REALLY know about the earlier picks, too..

You know what the overwhelming majority of fans do know? We know that we've seen this movie before and we're all a bunch of little Bill Murrays. And we're supposed to believe that the guy who signed Ryan Fitzpatrick to a huge extension is not the same guy who's suddenly a genius when it comes to evaluating players.

We never heard of Tank Carder. We never heard of a lot of people. We heard the exact same description of TJ Graham that we're hearing about Woods.

Sorry, but our skepticism is well earned.

The idiots are the people who believe every word out of Buddy and Russ's mouths.

[Mike]

If you think you can do better, here's some advice: Go to One Bills Drive and sell them on your fantastic abilities to run the team. Then when they laugh you out of the building, come back here and hate on all their decisions.

By this time of the draft, I'm pretty sick & tired of reading posts criticizing the pros who know more than EVERY one of us. The most ridiculous ones are in the late rounds, like last round when we picked a kicker who can actually contribute to this & future teams as opposed to some guy who will get cut in camp or be inactive most games.

LOL... some of the posters on this board have been much better at making picks that this Bills FO over the past 13+ years. Get it through your head... 1) Picking players is not rocket science... its simply a high profile job 2) its a crap shoot, and when you consistently think you know better than the rest of the NFL and continue to suck year in and year out, you are the one that is crap 3) Just because its your job doesn't mean *******... literally it means nothing, its simply a title of authority and I could care less what your title says, I only care about the results you produce...

[Mike]

Exactly.

Performance dictates results, not title, and this team doesn't have the performance to earn the benefit of the doubt.

In fact they ONLY have the performance to inspire massive amounts of doubt.....

I wish I could bet real money with some of these blind homers.....
Once you make them put their money where their mouth is, they will start being realists real quick and this baseless optimism will end real quick.

This is a call to anyone who wants to take the challenge...

[trapezeus]

WTF are you talking about ? Lindell the last 2 years is 11-13 between 40-49 yards. 1-2 from 50 +. When Granny Gailey actually let him kick, he was quite good. That was conservative coaching, not Lindell.

He may be replaced now but he served us very well for quite a long time. Plus the Ralph is insanely windy in Nov. Dec.

http://www.nfl.com/player/rianlindell/2504046/careerstats

through 2 coaches, and neither are amazing, jauron and gailey routinely didn't let lindell kick over 40 in several situations. so his stats always look better than what the scenarios called for.

[k-oneputt]

Well, they are at least smarter than all the people on this board that wanted to draft Barkley or Nassib at #8, and for that I am grateful.

And you know this how ????

Talk to Brady.

[k-oneputt]

If you think you can do better, here's some advice: Go to One Bills Drive and sell them on your fantastic abilities to run the team. Then when they laugh you out of the building, come back here and hate on all their decisions.

By this time of the draft, I'm pretty sick & tired of reading posts criticizing the pros who know more than EVERY one of us. The most ridiculous ones are in the late rounds, like last round when we picked a kicker who can actually contribute to this & future teams as opposed to some guy who will get cut in camp or be inactive most games.

Actually I know I could do better. And you can add on the last 12 yrs.

[lmcshadow]

:blah: At least they passed grammer class.
:lmao::lmao:

[k-oneputt]

:blah: At least they passed grammer class.

Wow. Thanks for your expertise on a board.
Very impressive of the the language.

Really ????

[feldspar]

You know what the overwhelming majority of fans do know? We know that we've seen this movie before and we're all a bunch of little Bill Murrays.

You aren't a bunch of Bill Murrays. You're a bunch of Negative Nancys...or just plain asswipes. This is because you have absolutely nothing to base ANY opinion on, either positive OR negative. You are like children that wander into the middle of a movie with no conception of what it's about...you have not seen this movie before. Each player is different. Tell me your personal assessment of each player in this draft...can you do that? You don't have an opinion, you have a feeling...no real logic or knowledge applied. You'd feel this way no matter WHO the Bills got, probably, since you don't know the players drafted anyway.


And we're supposed to believe that the guy who signed Ryan Fitzpatrick to a huge extension is not the same guy who's suddenly a genius when it comes to evaluating players.

No...nor are you supposed to think that everything he does will be wrong without personal insight to back it up. Whoops, Nix just did something, therefore he is wrong. That's just mindless.


We never heard of Tank Carder. We never heard of a lot of people. We heard the exact same description of TJ Graham that we're hearing about Woods.

We've never heard of Tank Carder, but the "experts" were simply GUSHING about the value of the pick at the time the Bills made it. Then the mindless lemmings were like "oh, what a great pick. After all, that's what I'm hearing"...acting like THEY were the ones that were somehow drawing that conclusion just by the hype they wanted to own. The guy didn't even make the team.

And we are NOT hearing the same things about TJ Graham that we are about Woods. We heard that Woods is a polished receiver and a decent route-runner that has produced. The report on TJ Graham was that he had potential, but he was raw and needed work. He was something of a burner on a team that could not throw the long ball at all in Buffalo last year. Besides that, haven't you ever heard of developing players? We'll know more about TJ Graham soon. A bunch of complete morons will figure that half of this year's draft picks suck if they aren't playing balls-to-the-wall by week 5.


Sorry, but our skepticism is well earned.

The idiots are the people who believe every word out of Buddy and Russ's mouths.

Be as skeptical as you want. Yeah, it's well deserved...no disputing that. But what I'm talking about is the people that PRETEND to have enough knowledge to evaluate these picks today. Those idiots are out there in droves. Even the most informed people are wrong all the time, especially with mid-to-late round picks...which are long shots more often than not, anyway.

[k-oneputt]

WTF are you talking about ? Lindell the last 2 years is 11-13 between 40-49 yards. 1-2 from 50 +. When Granny Gailey actually let him kick, he was quite good. That was conservative coaching, not Lindell.

He may be replaced now but he served us very well for quite a long time. Plus the Ralph is insanely windy in Nov. Dec.

http://www.nfl.com/player/rianlindell/2504046/careerstats

Another good reason for our "experts" to waste a pick on a kicker.

Isn't this two years in a row ????

Yep, they know what they are doing.

Being stupid and "justifying".

Ralph is to far gone to realize wtf is going on.

[jills]

:blah: At least they passed grammer class.

*Facepalm

[ParanoidAndroid]

You know what I get sick of?

When somebody on this board voices their opinion on a player, only to get blasted for not being a pro scout. (Note this only happens when the Bills picks are criticized, not when they are praised for being brilliant.) Every year, I see Bills fans on various message boards screaming for players that end up being tons better than the crap Nix snatches up. Some perfect mid/late round examples from last year - Russell Wilson and Vontaze Burfict.

Just because you are being PAID to do something, does not mean you are good at it.

Yeah... even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while.

[k-oneputt]

Has any team in the history of the NFL wasted a draft pick on a place kicker two years in a row ?????

Go ahead start googling ?

[k-oneputt]

I'm sorry, I forgot. We have won the Super Bowl so we can afford to waste picks.

[Novacane]

Has any team in the history of the NFL wasted a draft pick on a place kicker two years in a row ?????

Go ahead start googling ?

Last years was a waste. This year who knows. We need a kicker so why not take one? We got the guy you wanted at the spot as an UDFA.

[feldspar]

Has any team in the history of the NFL wasted a draft pick on a place kicker two years in a row ?????

Go ahead start googling ?

See...maybe you should google "idiot." Perhaps you will find a picture of yourself there.

Last year, John Potter was TWO picks away from being Mr. Irrelevant. Only two players were picked after him. You are going to call that a wasted pick?

By the same token, you are going to call a guy who hasn't even played yet a wasted pick? A sixth rounder? Holy ****, are you even thinking at all?

Like I said before, kickers put more points on the board than players at any other position. You NEED a good one, or you are going to lose more games. Period.

[Bill Cody]

I'm sorry, I forgot. We have won the Super Bowl so we can afford to waste picks.
If he's a good kicker why is it a waste? Is good kick offs not helpful to winning? Good field goal kicking a waste? Are the Patriots regretting "wasting" a third on Steven Goskowski? Besides how many 6th rounders make a roster? You make no sense.

[k-oneputt]

Most here don't even know who the kicker is,
and he is good.

Still, don't waste picks on kickers.

LOL. Thats good fels. You are right?

[k-oneputt]

Good point, Gosk was drafted by the Pats.

[feldspar]

Most here don't even know who the kicker is,
and he is good.

Still, don't waste picks on kickers.

LOL. Thats good fels. You are right?

Damn right I'm right.

Jon Gruden spent a first-round pick on a kicker, #17 overall. You might call THAT a wasted pick. You don't call a six round pick a wasted pick if it's a good kicker. That's a guy that can score more points than anybody on your team for over a decade if he pans out. You try to pick him up in as an undrafted free agent, and chances are you won't get him with all the competition out there. That's half of what the last couple of rounds are about. Hell, if he wins just a few games for you, then he's worth ten times more than most 6th round picks.

Who would you rather have picked? I mean a guy that wouldn't cause you to cry like a baby?

[psubills62]

I hate using picks on punters and kickers.

[k-oneputt]

First felds put the scotch down.

This is who I would have taken, Holloman, Washinton, or V. Williams... and after that if your shorts were still twisted you probably could have gotten your kicker{boy] in the next rd.

Exhale, inhale. repeat.

[better days]

You know what I get sick of?

When somebody on this board voices their opinion on a player, only to get blasted for not being a pro scout. (Note this only happens when the Bills picks are criticized, not when they are praised for being brilliant.) Every year, I see Bills fans on various message boards screaming for players that end up being tons better than the crap Nix snatches up. Some perfect mid/late round examples from last year - Russell Wilson and Vontaze Burfict.

Just because you are being PAID to do something, does not mean you are good at it.

Even a BLIND squirrel finds a NUT on occasion. And thats what we ALL are in relation to people that get PAID to do a job, we are BLIND squirrels.

[mjt328]

Even a BLIND squirrel finds a NUT on occasion. And thats what we ALL are in relation to people that get PAID to do a job, we are BLIND squirrels.

If I've learned anything in my 34 years, it's that employment does not make you an expert - or necessarily even good at your job. This fact does not change because you are employed by an NFL team.


You don't need to be an NFL scout to have a strong understanding of the game. You can get that from a book.

You don't need to be an NFL scout to watch college prospects play. You can go to games, watch TV and use the Internet.

You don't even need to be an NFL scout anymore to watch the Combine, Senior Bowl practices or even player interviews for that matter.


These are the tools scouts use to evaluate prospects, readily available to any fan on the planet. If you disagree with someone's opinion, then fine. But it's rude to discount someone just because they are a fan.

[justasportsfan]

If I've learned anything in my 34 years, it's that employment does not make you an expert - or necessarily even good at your job. This fact does not change because you are employed by an NFL team.


You don't need to be an NFL scout to have a strong understanding of the game. You can get that from a book.

You don't need to be an NFL scout to watch college prospects play. You can go to games, watch TV and use the Internet.

You don't even need to be an NFL scout anymore to watch the Combine, Senior Bowl practices or even player interviews for that matter.


These are the tools scouts use to evaluate prospects, readily available to any fan on the planet. If you disagree with someone's opinion, then fine. But it's rude to discount someone just because they are a fan.

I've also learned that posting on message boards , doesn't make you an expert.

[better days]

If you disagree with someone's opinion, then fine. But it's rude to discount someone just because they are a fan.

If that is the case, people have been rude to me MANY times on this board. And why is it rude to discount someone that is a fan but not rude to discount someone because they WORK for the Bills?

And I was including myself when I said that, so I guess I was being rude to myself. Just another instance of someone being rude to me on this board.

[Novacane]

If you disagree with someone's opinion, then fine. But it's rude to discount someone just because they are a fan.


I guess that makes me one rude mother ****er!

[EricStratton]

Picking on an anonymous message board when there is absolutely no consequence to being wrong is most likely a bit different then picking when it really matters.

[swiper]

Wow.

[Albany,n.y.]

If I've learned anything in my 34 years, it's that employment does not make you an expert - or necessarily even good at your job. This fact does not change because you are employed by an NFL team.


You don't need to be an NFL scout to have a strong understanding of the game. You can get that from a book.

You don't need to be an NFL scout to watch college prospects play. You can go to games, watch TV and use the Internet.

You don't even need to be an NFL scout anymore to watch the Combine, Senior Bowl practices or even player interviews for that matter.


These are the tools scouts use to evaluate prospects, readily available to any fan on the planet. If you disagree with someone's opinion, then fine. But it's rude to discount someone just because they are a fan.

No matter how many tools you can use from your living room, you do not have access to the data the pros do. You do not have access to one on one interviews with the players and their coaches , medical reports, certain films and a staff of scouts to bounce ideas off of. You may have an opinion, but in no way is that opinion based on as much data as the pros. Now obviously, the Bills management has mismanaged these tools they have to the point of missing the playoffs this century. The fact that at times some fans have had a better opinion than these pros is more an indictment on who the Bills decision makers have been than proof that fans have access to comparable data-we don't.

Now one reason I'm giving the benefit of the doubt this year is because it looks like whoever made this year's draft decisions did so in a manner we haven't recently seen. Is it Marrone, more power to Whaley or just no interference from Ralph? I don't know, but just the fact that they took risks on guys with arrest records in later rounds and did an extensive QB study to a level never seen before from the Bills tells me the Bills did something drastically different this year than they have in their decade plus of lousy drafts.

If you really believe you're on an equal playing field as the people with access to all the data I've mentioned above, you're delusional.

[justasportsfan]

Picking on an anonymous message board when there is absolutely no consequence to being wrong is most likely a bit different then picking when it really matters.

it's easy to sit back and be keyboard GM. It's another thing to actually go out in the real world and APPLY that knowledge especially when you are out there competing against 31 other real world GMs fighting for players' services.

[X-Era]

You know what I get sick of?

When somebody on this board voices their opinion on a player, only to get blasted for not being a pro scout. (Note this only happens when the Bills picks are criticized, not when they are praised for being brilliant.) Every year, I see Bills fans on various message boards screaming for players that end up being tons better than the crap Nix snatches up. Some perfect mid/late round examples from last year - Russell Wilson and Vontaze Burfict.

Just because you are being PAID to do something, does not mean you are good at it.
True. But you have to admit that we have about a hundredth of the information on these guys that they do.

It's a crap-shoot and that's why us fans can get away with looking smart when were right; because were certainly not as informed as we should be.

[Albany,n.y.]

I've also learned that posting on message boards , doesn't make you an expert.

None of us are experts-were fans-it's a hobby. Now there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with another fan's opinion as long as one realizes that nobody here is a true expert. In fact, to some extent, when arguing one's side, rudeness can almost be expected. I'll never get personally offended if someone thinks something I've posted is dead wrong & calls me out for it.
The problem with some fans is we can get so wrapped up in this hobby, that we start to blur the lines between fan & participant. Some start to think like they're players-I've got to win every game at all costs no matter of future consequences. Some start to think like they're GMs and propose trades and draft choices and really get angry when the team doesn't do what they've dreamed up. In terms of the GM mentality, been there, done that, but I still always maintained the perspective that I can't make a single trade or draft choice for my team. When you blur the line too much, it's time to back off and maintain your perspective. You're not on the field, you're not in the GM's office-enjoy the hobby, but please maintain some sense of the fact that at the end of the day there's nothing you can do that has a direct effect on what the team is actually doing.

[justasportsfan]

None of us are experts-were fans-it's a hobby. Now there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with another fan's opinion as long as one realizes that nobody here is a true expert. In fact, to some extent, when arguing one's side, rudeness can almost be expected. I'll never get personally offended if someone thinks something I've posted is dead wrong & calls me out for it.
The problem with some fans is we can get so wrapped up in this hobby, that we start to blur the lines between fan & participant. Some start to think like they're players-I've got to win every game at all costs no matter of future consequences. Some start to think like they're GMs and propose trades and draft choices and really get angry when the team doesn't do what they've dreamed up. In terms of the GM mentality, been there, done that, but I still always maintained the perspective that I can't make a single trade or draft choice for my team. When you blur the line too much, it's time to back off and maintain your perspective. You're not on the field, you're not in the GM's office-enjoy the hobby, but please maintain some sense of the fact that at the end of the day there's nothing you can do that has a direct effect on what the team is actually doing.


I agree that we should be rude just because we don't share the same opinion on the teams moves/draft. Now shut up and leave me alone you ......






:biggrin:

[mjt328]

If that is the case, people have been rude to me MANY times on this board. And why is it rude to discount someone that is a fan but not rude to discount someone because they WORK for the Bills?

And I was including myself when I said that, so I guess I was being rude to myself. Just another instance of someone being rude to me on this board.

I just think it's ridiculous how people get blasted for having strong opinions against certain draft picks.

For instance, it's OK for a "regular" fan to talk about how great Da'Rick Rogers is, and how brilliant the Bills were for stealing him as an UDFA.

But if someone knocks the Marquisse Goodwin pick, they are an amateur with no credentials that needs to shut up.

[better days]

I just think it's ridiculous how people get blasted for having strong opinions against certain draft picks.

For instance, it's OK for a "regular" fan to talk about how great Da'Rick Rogers is, and how brilliant the Bills were for stealing him as an UDFA.

But if someone knocks the Marquisse Goodwin pick, they are an amateur with no credentials that needs to shut up.

As a Tebow fan, I doubt anyone has been blasted more than me. Well, maybe Mitch Murry Downtown has.

[TacklingDummy]

I've also learned that posting on message boards , doesn't make you an expert.

But it can make you an idiot.

[X-Era]

But it can confirm you're an idiot.Fixed it. :D:

[Bert102176]

Well, they are at least smarter than all the people on this board that wanted to draft Barkley or Nassib at #8, and for that I am grateful.

Not all of us wanted a QB at 8 I have said from the get go rd 2

[Bert102176]

As a Tebow fan, I doubt anyone has been blasted more than me. Well, maybe Mitch Murry Downtown has.
I like Tebow also

[pmoon6]

Well, Charles Davis and Mike Mayock liked the Bills draft. They are both top notch talent evaluators.

[jamze132]

:blah: At least they passed grammer class.

Grammar

[jamze132]

Another good reason for our "experts" to waste a pick on a kicker.

Isn't this two years in a row ????

Yep, they know what they are doing.

Being stupid and "justifying".

Ralph is to far gone to realize wtf is going on.

What's wrong with taking the best kicker in the draft? If we didn't, someone else would have.

Besides, we'll be kicking a lot of FGs.

[justasportsfan]

But it can make you an idiot.

we're all idiots which is why we're on a message board pretending to be GMs

[gebobs]

Picking on an anonymous message board when there is absolutely no consequence to being wrong is most likely a bit different then picking when it really matters.
How so? You might say because a job is on the line. But it's not. It's still Bumbling Buddy making the calls.

[gebobs]

:blah: At least they passed grammer class.
16433

[Rob's House]

Has any team in the history of the NFL wasted a draft pick on a place kicker two years in a row ?????

Go ahead start googling ?
Is it a waste because you don't like this particular kicker, or because you think kickers are unimportant, or because you think Lindell is the man?

[TacklingDummy]

we're all idiots which is why we're on a message board pretending to be GMs

True.

Some are just bigger idiots.

Then we got the Liberals. ugh

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Picking on an anonymous message board when there is absolutely no consequence to being wrong is most likely a bit different then picking when it really matters.

The Bills lack of accountability is one of our biggest complaints about the team.


I like Tebow also

Yeah me too. The Jets are gonna release him, and he'll probably end up in the CFL or the indoor league or something. Oh well.


Anyway back to the topic:

There's a repeated implication that professional scouts have some kind of superior knowledge of football over fans. I don't accept that. And the end of the day, it's just football. It's not really that complicated a topic. They aren't fixing nuclear reactors or predicting the political moves in Uzbekibekistanstan.

Moreover, my personal stereotype of scouts was a grizzled old guy who's been around football for decades and could sit on the next barstool and talk about prospects from 1987 like it was yesterday. But apparently I was incorrect, that's not really how the industry works.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2013/futures-front-office-overhaul

Speaking of cycles, an owner and general manager often go through a couple of coaches before the owner decides to replace the front office head. It makes a prospect with long-term promise but short-term flaws more appealing in many a GM’s eyes and reinforces the problem I stated above.

Where do scouts fit into this equation? Based on what I’ve heard from former scouts with the Chiefs, Rams, Jets, Browns, Vikings, Cardinals, 49ers, Eagles, and Lions, the common theme is to speak when spoken to. And, if you’re going to speak, to pick your spots with care -- because you’re navigating a career minefield.


The reason is that most scouts are entry-level employees. According to ex-scouts, there is an unwritten truism called the 25/25 Rule, which describes the tendency for NFL organizations to fire veteran scouts and replace them with new scouts in their mid-twenties (25) at an annual salary of $25,000.


This practice often occurs when teams change leadership. It also keeps scout salaries low. However, the 25/25 Rule also creates an environment where scouts are more reticent to stand up for their takes on players. Working for the NFL is a dream job for many, and teams have made their job security too tenuous to engage in learning that could actually provide long-term value to the company.

And an example how that can go sideways

One of the best examples where micromanagement dysfunction reared its ugly head and the media got a whiff was former scout Dave Razzano’s account of a disagreement he had with Rams general manager Charlie Armey over his scouting report of quarterback Alex Smith (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/16910/alex-smith), as told to Yahoo! writer Michael Silver.


Razzano’s refusal to fall in line with the widespread belief that Smith was a big-time quarterback prospect led to a heated confrontation with Armey in a meeting at Rams headquarters a couple of weeks before the ’05 draft. Razzano’s report on the former Utah quarterback opined that Smith was "not as good as our backup, Jeff Smoker. Backup only for the Rams."


Armey, who declined to discuss the incident after it was initially reported by Santa Rosa Press Democrat’s Matt Maiocco, solicited the input of other scouts and coaches who'd studied far less tape (if any) of Smith, who ended up being picked No. 1 overall by the 49ers.


"There were 12 guys around the table, and Charley had them rate him on every attribute – arm strength; accuracy short; accuracy long; judgment; game management; ad-lib ability under pressure. And he put a highlight tape on the projector. I mean, obviously, he’s gonna be 30 out of 30, and every throw’s a great pass … it’s a highlight tape!


"He said, ‘Are you gonna sit there and be stubborn? Why can’t you see what we see?’ I got heated. I said, ‘I’ve watched seven tapes, and I’m not changing my grade.’ He told one of our assistants, ‘Go get all seven tapes.’ I started screaming, ‘You’re gonna look at highlight tapes? That’s how Akili Smith (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/19207/akili-smith) got drafted!’ [Scout] Tom Marino had me in a bear hug. I just lost my mind."

Fantastic article that really changed my opinion of how the process works and could work better.

[gebobs]

True.

Some are just bigger idiots.

Then we got the Liberals. ugh
It's one thing to drop a political one-liner in a sports thread. It's quite another to make it humorous.

Yeah, I know. You were being serious.

*sigh*

[Rob's House]

The Bills lack of accountability is one of our biggest complaints about the team.


What does that even mean?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What does that even mean?

That people like Brandon survive in the FO for years.

[WagonCircler]

What does that even mean?

Well, maybe it means that nothing ever changes because the Bills are the football version of the Cubs. Why make serious changes and pay real money for GMs and Coaches when you're making bank on a mediocre product?

The Bills haven't made the playoffs in 13 years, but the guy who's been in management for most of those years and who DEFINITELY doesn't know more about football than message board fans gets PROMOTED TO CEO.

I'm not saying that Ralph is trying to alienate the fans and move the team the way the owner was trying to do in the movie Major League, but if he were to set out to intentionally screw things up, it's hard to imagine him doing anything differently than he has over the past two decades.

[WagonCircler]

That people like Brandon survive in the FO for years.

Not just survive, but get REWARDED. Get put in charge of everything!

It really shows you what the true goal of the franchise is--profitability over winning.

[Rob's House]

That people like Brandon survive in the FO for years.

I guess I can see some merit to the claim in regards to the executives at the top. It just struck me as funny to say there's no accountability when they fire the coaching staff every 3 years, and go through GMs almost as fast.

[gebobs]

I guess I can see some merit to the claim in regards to the executives at the top. It just struck me as funny to say there's no accountability when they fire the coaching staff every 3 years, and go through GMs almost as fast.
It's not funny when they replace the guys fired with more losers. In the entire sad history of the franchise, they have had one or two very good GM's and probably about the same as far as coaches go.

[Rob's House]

It's not funny when they replace the guys fired with more losers. In the entire sad history of the franchise, they have had one or two very good GM's and probably about the same as far as coaches go.

In fairness, it's not like qualified guys were tripping over each other to take the job when Gailey was hired, and it's a bit premature to label Marrone a loser at this point. As far as Buddy goes, I know it's cool and popular to defecate on him, but I think the jury's still out on him. If nothing else, he took a team that no one wanted anything to do with and amassed enough talent that coaches with options were open to coming here. If 2-3 years from now the Bills still suck I'll concede that Buddy isn't very good, but I'm not there yet.

[gebobs]

In fairness, it's not like qualified guys were tripping over each other to take the job when Gailey was hired
You know how you get them to trip over themselves? Make it so they want to. Make a commitment to winning. Show that you're not just willing to be satisfied with mediocrity. Of course, the Bills can't even pay lip service to that without anyone laughing out loud. So then you throw out the big bucks. And we know that's not going to happen.


and it's a bit premature to label Marrone a loser at this point.
Gee, ya think? Thanks. I'll keep that in mind and I'll try not to judge someone before their first game.


As far as Buddy goes, I know it's cool and popular to defecate on him, but I think the jury's still out on him. If nothing else, he took a team that no one wanted anything to do with and amassed enough talent that coaches with options were open to coming here. If 2-3 years from now the Bills still suck I'll concede that Buddy isn't very good, but I'm not there yet.
Buddy Nix, if not on the absolute bottom of the heap as far as NFL GMs go, is surely in the bottom quartile.

[Ginger Vitis]

There's a repeated implication that professional scouts have some kind of superior knowledge of football over fans. I don't accept that. And the end of the day, it's just football. It's not really that complicated a topic. They aren't fixing nuclear reactors or predicting the political moves in Uzbekibekistanstan.








And because you go to the movies once a month you probably think you could be a movie critic for a major newspaper

[WagonCircler]

And because you go to the movies once a month you probably think you could be a movie critic for a major newspaper

I don't know about that, but I'll say this, if I go see 5 movies directed by Joe Blow and all 5 suck, it's reasonable to have low expectations for Joe's next movie.

Especially when Joe was an Assistant Director until he was 70. Guys in their 70s are not known for changing their ways.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And because you go to the movies once a month you probably think you could be a movie critic for a major newspaper

And what specialized knowledge did you think Roger Ebert had that was beyond the average moviegoer? He was an excellent writer, that's the difference.

And FWIW, when Ebert did make his own movie it was godawful, so most in a comparable situation here would be saying "See, that's why he writes for the Tribune, because he can't get a job in Hollywood."

[JoeMama]

it's easy to sit back and be keyboard GM. It's another thing to actually go out in the real world and APPLY that knowledge especially when you are out there competing against 31 other real world GMs fighting for players' services.

Oh it's so hard to be a millionaire GM!!!

Poor babies!!!

Like everyone else on this forum, I sit behind a keyboard and have opinions too.

But I promise you this, if "conventional fan opinion" dictated our our recent drafts, it would have been a marked improvement, especially in the first two rounds.

Seriously. Guys like Donte Whitner, Leodis McKelvin, Aaron Maybin never would have seen the light of day. Nor would second rounders like Torell Troup or Kevin Hardy.

[k-oneputt]

Is it a waste because you don't like this particular kicker, or because you think kickers are unimportant, or because you think Lindell is the man?

I already said he is good.
But they don't need to be wasting picks every year on kickers.

[Novacane]

I already said he is good.
But they don't need to be wasting picks every year on kickers.



So if they hadn't picked Potter last year you'd be ok with this pick? They miss on different positions every year and have to go back and try again. I don't see why K is any different. If you need one you need one!

[k-oneputt]

I would never pick a kicker, unless maybe if my team was in the play-offs every year and it was the missing piece.

[better days]

I would never pick a kicker, unless maybe if my team was in the play-offs every year and it was the missing piece.

A kicker can make all the difference in the World. Norwood misses a 48 yd field goal, the Bills lose to the Giants in the Superbowl.

Vinatieri makes a 48 yd field goal & the Pats* beat the Rams in the Superbowl. And the Pats* have not won another Superbowl since Vinatieri left for Indy where he won one with them.

[k-oneputt]

You can find kickers in free agency.

I wasn't to excited about the two safety picks either.