For all of you that hate this draft...........

[Novacane]

How about you post what you would of done at each pick instead based on the players that were available. Document it so this thread can be bumped in a couple years to see who was right.

[SquishDaFish]

And dont just say manuel would of lasted to our 2nd pick cause NONE of you know for sure

[WagonCircler]

And dont just say manuel would of lasted to our 2nd pick cause NONE of you know for sure Nor do you.

But it's a damned safe bet that he would have been.

I'd have drafted Tavon Austin or Tyler Eiffert at 8, or traded down twice and bolstered the lineup with as many first and second round picks as possible and waited until next year to pick up a QB, because this team is going to be drafting in the top 3 next year.

[jamze132]

I would have drafted Jarvis Jones in RD1 and taken the best QB the Bills thought was available in RD2. Love the Woods pick in RD 2.

[swiper]

Sure as hell wouldn't have wasted my first pick on Jsaon Campbell, errr EJ Manuel aty #16 or at all.

[gebobs]

For the price of 8 huge picks in the first, basically we got an alcoholic problem/project. I'll bookmark this for when he becomes an all-pro.

[SquishDaFish]

I would have drafted Jarvis Jones in RD1 and taken the best QB the Bills thought was available in RD2. Love the Woods pick in RD 2.

Now this is the way you say it if you didnt want EJ in Rd1.

Not I would have traded down again because you dont know if that opp was there. And not I would of waited till rd 2 for EJ cause you dont know if he would of lasted. Philly was suppos hot after him

[SquishDaFish]

Sure as hell wouldn't have wasted my first pick on Jsaon Campbell, errr EJ Manuel aty #16 or at all.

How do you know for sure hes going to be the same as Campbell? You dont know how he is going to be as a pro. Just stop it already

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Round one I trade down again with Minnesota or maybe even San Fransisco because I am fairly confident that EJ would still have been there with either team's pick and I would have seen about getting yet another pick in the second or third round and gotten somebody to fill in at Guard. I don't particularly like EJ, but considering that I have significant concerns with all the qbs in this draft class I would have questioned any other qb we selected.

[gebobs]

Round one I trade down again with Minnesota or maybe even San Fransisco
What confidence do you have that Bumbling Buddy would have gotten anything more in return? He got precious little and converted it into next to nothing.

[Rob's House]

Nor do you.

But it's a damned safe bet that he would have been.



There's really no basis for saying that. Maybe he'd go undrafted like Bray, maybe Philly scoops him up in the second, or maybe someone else jumps up to the back of the first. You have absolutely no idea what other teams thought of him. Of all the professionals who spend all year researching and studying this information in depth with inside info, no one had a very accurate prediction of how this draft would unfold, especially in regards to QB, so hind-sight speculation about where he might have gone is pointless. The only relevant question with Manuel is whether he'll pan out. If he does it was a good pick, if he doesn't it wasn't. That's all.

[Rob's House]

What confidence do you have that Bumbling Buddy would have gotten anything more in return? He got precious little and converted it into next to nothing.

You guys are suffering from Buddy Derangement Syndrome. Buddy's top priority was to come away with a QB, he picks up another 2nd and 7th and STILL gets his guy, and you **** on him for it? Weak.

[gebobs]

There's really no basis for saying that. Maybe he'd go undrafted like Bray, maybe Philly scoops him up in the second, or maybe someone else jumps up to the back of the first. You have absolutely no idea what other teams thought of him.
Again, nor do you. It's an opinion. Anything other than what actually went down is opinion.

If all you want to talk about is how it went down, fine. But since the OP is asking for how other people would have done it hypothetically, then get ready for a whole lot of opinion.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

What confidence do you have that Bumbling Buddy would have gotten anything more in return? He got precious little and converted it into next to nothing.

I can overlook a young man doing stupid things in college provided he grew out of them. The LB in question did stupid things early in college and appears to have grown out of them. If you went to college and didn't do something stupid then you did it wrong. Sure not maybe something involving law enforcement, but something stupid. Other than not drafting a guard I think this was a decent draft. Of course, I will say the key words of this draft are "no excuses." They got the first qb picked in the draft and so if EJ fails then no excuses the whole front office should get **** canned. Its really a no loss draft. EJ turns into an all pro who does what no qb has done with this team since Flutie -- get us into the post season -- then its all gravy. If EJ busts bad and its business as usual then I have no qualms of the next owner --Ralph, unless he is a cyborg will be dead within the next couple of years -- completely gutting the front office.

[Rob's House]

Again, nor do you. It's an opinion. Anything other than what actually went down is opinion.

If all you want to talk about is how it went down, fine. But since the OP is asking for how other people would have done it hypothetically, then get ready for a whole lot of opinion.
Again?

I'm not the one claiming to. That's the difference.

And there's also a difference between saying you'd do x b/c you think y, and simply saying y.

[gebobs]

Again?
That was in reference to WC's response to SDF, who like you discredited a post because it's opinion. I'm just pointing out that everything is opinion here. No one needs to be told that nothing is for sure. That's a given.

[gebobs]

I can overlook a young man doing stupid things in college provided he grew out of them. The LB in question did stupid things early in college and appears to have grown out of them. If you went to college and didn't do something stupid then you did it wrong. Sure not maybe something involving law enforcement, but something stupid.
It's not just that Alonso has had problems with self-control, but he's had some injuries too. The Bills jumped the gun on Manuel, Alonso, and Goodwin.

The only decent pick in this draft for the Bills is Woods. The rest are, for one reason or another, all head scratchers.

[YardRat]

I don't hate the draft, but I'll play along just for fun...using the same pick slots the team did...

1-(16)-Jarvis Jones, OLB
2-(41)-Robert Woods, WR
2-(46)- EJ Manuel, QB - Yeah we can't say for sure he would've been there, but then again we can't say he wouldn't have been either. The evidence, however, being only 1 QB taken off the board by this point and Geno Smith generally accepted to be the best prospect suggests he would've been as opposed to not. You'll just have to deal with the facts if you disagree.
3-(78)- Nico Johnson, ILB
4-(105)- Barrett Jones, OG
5-(143)-Tavarres King, WR
6-(177)-Theo Riddick, RB - I actually don't mind the Hopkins pick too much, but if you're going to blow a pick on a kicker he better be a given to have the job in September, otherwise get a FA or UDFA. Riddick would've been a great #3 back with versatility to play on the outside as well.
7-(222)- Chris Gragg, TE

Quarterback-check
WR-check,check
LBer-check,check
Oline-check
TE-check
RB, young and depth-check

[Captain Obvious]

How about you post what you would of done at each pick instead based on the players that were available. Document it so this thread can be bumped in a couple years to see who was right.

I think OPIV needs to do what you are asking..He needs to stick his neck out on the line and not be afraid of making mistakes and play GM and say who he wanted in every round..This is what I would have done if I was the Bills GM 1. Jarvis Jones OLB 2. Robert Woods WR. 2. Gavin Escobar TE 3. Matt Barkley QB 4. Barrett Jones G/C 5. 6.Brandon McGee CB 6. Da Rick Rogers WR 7. Sam Barrington LB

[Generalissimus Gibby]

It's not just that Alonso has had problems with self-control, but he's had some injuries too. The Bills jumped the gun on Manuel, Alonso, and Goodwin.

The only decent pick in this draft for the Bills is Woods. The rest are, for one reason or another, all head scratchers.

Thurmal was injured too, and did just fine for us, also we needed an LB so its not really a head scratcher. We needed a kicker too because Lindell has not been the same since the injury. We needed a TE to supplement or replace Chandler and we got one. We needed receivers and so we drafted two who have great potential. As for EJ, well name a qb who you'd be happy with on day one. Can you? Really? I can't. This was a crappy year for qbs. With the exception taking a S over a G this was a good draft for us.

[gebobs]

Thurmal was injured too, and did just fine for us
So what? Who cares about Thurman Thomas? As if we should just wave away any injury concerns because someone defied his critics 25 years ago.


also we needed an LB so its not really a head scratcher.
And now we should wave away injury AND character questions, as well as consensus opinion that he was at best 3rd round talent, simply because it addresses a need.


We needed a kicker too because Lindell has not been the same since the injury.By all means, drop a 6th rounder on a kicker. Sure you can probably sign one UDFA, but then again, UDFA's can sign anywhere. When we look at the holes on this team and point to the draft as successful because we plug a hole at kicker, it really is depressing.


We needed a TE to supplement or replace Chandler and we got one. We needed receivers and so we drafted two who have great potential. As for EJ, well name a qb who you'd be happy with on day one. Can you? Really? I can't. This was a crappy year for qbs. With the exception taking a S over a G this was a good draft for us.
This draft was weak for the Bills. Nix blew another one. Only a homer would look at this draft and see some silver lining.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

So what? Who cares about Thurman Thomas? As if we should just wave away any injury concerns because someone defied his critics 25 years ago.


It happened once, it could happen again.


And now we should wave away injury AND character questions, as well as consensus opinion that he was at best 3rd round talent, simply because it addresses a need.

You are so pessimistic, Gebobs, generally a realist and I can appreciate your concerns but like I said the draft is a crap shoot. We had Sam Cowart who looked and played like a stud and had no injury issue in college, then in 2000 he had one, followed by another in 2001. Injuries are dice roles. Character issues, well you can be ******* for all I care, just play football well and stay out of trouble. This man has what a disorderly conduct thing? If he's murdering women and raping livestock then yes character issues. However, if he can stay out of legal trouble and not absolutely embarass us off the field and play above average on the field then no problem. Again, ask me in three years what I think of him. Its too early to issue a judgement


By all means, drop a 6th rounder on a kicker. Sure you can probably sign one UDFA, but then again, UDFA's can sign anywhere. When we look at the holes on this team and point to the draft as successful because we plug a hole at kicker, it really is depressing.

Kicker is a need, we didn't drop a high round pick on one, and pretty much anyone drafted below 5th is normally roster filler down to camp fodder anyway.


This draft was weak for the Bills. Nix blew another one. Only a homer would look at this draft and see some silver lining.

No, IMHO its a decent draft because we needed a qb, some help at wr, got a kicker, needed help at te, and its always nice to have depth at defensive back. To be fair, we needed to get some help on the OL, but it was a solid draft as far as needs go. Drafts are crap shoots really, and as such I cannot agree or disagree with your opinion on the draft until I see the players in the league for a couple years. As for being a Homer, well I must be a masochist because I see this team going no better than 4-12 this year. I am an optimistic realist if anything.

[gebobs]

It happened once, it could happen again.
It happens far more the other way, so it probably is not going to turn out like you hope.


You are so pessimistic, Gebobs, generally a realist and I can appreciate your concerns but like I said the draft is a crap shoot. We had Sam Cowart who looked and played like a stud and had no injury issue in college, then in 2000 he had one, followed by another in 2001. Injuries are dice roles. Character issues, well you can be ******* for all I care, just play football well and stay out of trouble. This man has what a disorderly conduct thing? If he's murdering women and raping livestock then yes character issues. However, if he can stay out of legal trouble and not absolutely embarass us off the field and play above average on the field then no problem. Again, ask me in three years what I think of him. Its too early to issue a judgement
What's the point of bringing up anecdote after anecdote? I'm not here to bury the guy. I'm here to bury the idiots that selected him. Character issues? Check. Injury issues? Check. Draft projection? 3rd round or later. Bills overreach? Check. Check. Check.


Kicker is a need, we didn't drop a high round pick on one, and pretty much anyone drafted below 5th is normally roster filler down to camp fodder anyway.
Well, since you like anecdotes so much, how about Stevie Johnson? Or Tom Brady?

I'm fine with the pick. Like I said, if he goes UDFA, Nix will have to compete with 31 other teams, something he has shown he cannot do.


No, IMHO its a decent draft because we needed a qb, some help at wr, got a kicker, needed help at te, and its always nice to have depth at defensive back.
We have needs everywhere other than RB. Heck, we need a punter too. Why not draft one?

In true fashion, the Bills overreached on 3 of their first 4 picks.

[pmoon6]

I think OPIV needs to do what you are asking..He needs to stick his neck out on the line and not be afraid of making mistakes and play GM and say who he wanted in every round..This is what I would have done if I was the Bills GM 1. Jarvis Jones OLB 2. Robert Woods WR. 2. Gavin Escobar TE 3. Matt Barkley QB 4. Barrett Jones G/C 5. 6.Brandon McGee CB 6. Da Rick Rogers WR 7. Sam Barrington LBYou would have wasted a 6th round pick then. We signed him as a Free Agent.

[Meathead]

Heck, we need a punter too. Why not draft one?



weve already got two knuckle dragging hayseed punters in camp now, how many more do you want

[gebobs]

weve already got two knuckle dragging hayseed punters in camp now, how many more do you want
As many as possible. We should probably keep one on the taxi squad for when the first one burns out his leg by the bye week.

[psubills62]

I didn't hate the draft, I understand why they did what they did. However, I'd rather they have done other things for the most part.

For starters, I would have traded down even further in the first round. As YardRat mentions, chances are very good that Manuel would have been there still. Though I'll say that I do understand - if they had their eye on one specific guy, it's a risk to trade down and leave the possibility open that he won't make it to you. The fact that they traded down once is definitely a positive in my eyes.

I'm surprised they avoided not only OL/DL, but CB and OLB too. Outside of QB, those would be considered all the next important positions on a team, period.

[justasportsfan]

Sure as hell wouldn't have wasted my first pick on Jsaon Campbell, errr EJ Manuel aty #16 or at all.

but you would have wasted your first pick on Barkley? A QB that went in the 4th?

[pmoon6]

This draft was weak for the Bills. Nix blew another one. Only a homer would look at this draft and see some silver lining.I said this in another thread. After our 5th round pick, Eison asked the panel who they thought was doing well so far and Mike Mayock said "Buffalo". Then later on in the day, Charles Davis talked about us doing well. Hardly Bills' "Homers".

Personally, I think all the negativism is a function of Fans wanting to be "real" and not be a homer. They become overly critical. I remember Steve Tasker saying once that when he does Bills games he walks a tightrope becaue he doesn't want to sound like a homer but he also doesn't want to over compensate.

I don't watch many college football games so I have to rely on people that I respect and are knowledgeable. Davis and Mayock are two of the best IMO. So called Bills' Fans, not so much.

Besides, not even the guys that do this for a living really know. In '89, a lot of teams draft boards had Tony Mandarich rated above Troy Aikman. In '96, Ray Lewis was the 5th linebacker taken because many scouts thought he lacked size. These are people that look at lots of players and get paid for doing so.

If it's an either or proposition, I'd rather be called a homer than somebody that constantly *****es about every move that the team makes. Hell, we even have fans denigrating Bill Polian, presumably on their quest to be a "realist".

[swiper]

You guys are suffering from Buddy Derangement Syndrome. Buddy's top priority was to come away with a QB, he picks up another 2nd and 7th and STILL gets his guy, and you **** on him for it? Weak.
Not really whiner. Only one other QB went before the 3rd. There were 4 ot 5 QBs that graded out pretty much equally. For almost a year people (experts) were saying that none should go in the first. There were articles saying that Gabbert would be the first QB off the board (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/13/jags-qb-coach-blaine-gabbert-would-be-the-top-guy-in-this-draft/) if he came out with this class. They could have had any one of the 4 or 5 losers in the second. Nix is a disgrace.

[Bill Cody]

This is the first draft in years that qb's were widely over drafted. It's very easy to say NOW Manuel might have lasted until the second round you see the way the draft went. But Nix didn't have that benefit. And he didn't want to risk it.

[swiper]

but you would have wasted your first pick on Barkley? A QB that went in the 4th?

No. I liked Barkley better based on reports. I said all along that they should have waited to take a QB no higher than their 2nd round pick if they were insisting on taking a QB this year. What I really don't understand is why it became such a critical need all the sudden. These same talent evaluators didn't understnad Fitzpatrick's limitations? One minute they are singing his praises, giving him a raise and then all the sudden they just dump him. WTF? Even if they had signed him to that contract, WHY didn't they sign a guy to groom. A real prospect. Even the Jets took McElroy. How you give Buddy Nix a pass on the QB position, even IF Manuel was to go on to be an All-Pro, is beyond me. He's bungled the QB position ever since he's been here. The most important position on the field.

- - - Updated - - -


This is the first draft in years that qb's were widely over drafted. It's very easy to say NOW Manuel might have lasted until the second round you see the way the draft went. But Nix didn't have that benefit. And he didn't want to risk it.

Did you mean were or were not?

[swiper]

weve already got two knuckle dragging hayseed punters in camp now, how many more do you want

We need a black one too. It's only fair. :D

[pmoon6]

Not really whiner. Only one other QB went before the 3rd. There were 4 ot 5 QBs that graded out pretty much equally. For almost a year people (experts) were saying that none should go in the first. There were articles saying that Gabbert would be the first QB off the board (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/13/jags-qb-coach-blaine-gabbert-would-be-the-top-guy-in-this-draft/) if he came out with this class. They could have had any one of the 4 or 5 losers in the second. Nix is a disgrace.HaHaHa. 4 or 5 "losers". You seem to like that word, but I wouldn't call guys that probably got a full ride to some good universities and are one of 300 players to get picked in the NFL draft, losers.

[swiper]

HaHaHa. 4 or 5 "losers". You seem to like that word, but I wouldn't call guys that probably got a full ride to some good universities and are one of 300 players to get picked in the NFL draft, losers.

Well, lets just say that there are several write-ups out there suggesting that none in the class may pan out. Wouldn't be the firs time. Perhaps losers was not the right word for it, but you have seen such drafts in the past. Some years there are blus chip QBs, some years there aren't.

[Extremebillsfan247]

How about you post what you would of done at each pick instead based on the players that were available. Document it so this thread can be bumped in a couple years to see who was right.

Personally, I won't know if I like or hate this draft until 2016. Unlike years past, I've learned not to become too emotionally invested in the moment when it comes to the draft. Anyone can think they know how it will all turn out, but no one really knows until these prospects get playing time at the pro level. JMO

[Bill Cody]

Not really whiner. Only one other QB went before the 3rd. There were 4 ot 5 QBs that graded out pretty much equally. For almost a year people (experts) were saying that none should go in the first. There were articles saying that Gabbert would be the first QB off the board (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/13/jags-qb-coach-blaine-gabbert-would-be-the-top-guy-in-this-draft/) if he came out with this class. They could have had any one of the 4 or 5 losers in the second. Nix is a disgrace.
He didn't want any of them. That's the point. If Manuel is a franchise QB in 3-4 years this will be a silly silly critique. The Bills have not had bad teams for the past decade plus because we drafted good players too early. We've been bad teams because we drafted BUSTS. If Manuel is a bust you'll have a point. But you most definitely don't know that yet. Saying Nix is a "disgrace" is pretty harsh.
Think of it another way. The Jets got the best "value" with Geno Smith. If Geno is a great player the Jets will get and will deserve a lot of credit. If not? Who is going to care about the spot he was drafted? QB iis different than any other position. Nix wanted the guy he got. The fact that the others lasted a long time actually supports why it was important to get HIS choice. It all comes down to how Manuel does. If he hits it will be a great pick.

[pmoon6]

Well, lets just say that there are several write-ups out there suggesting that none in the class may pan out. Wouldn't be the firs time. Perhaps losers was not the right word for it, but you have seen such drafts in the past. Some years there are blus chip QBs, some years there aren't.Oh, I agree. I didn't want any of them at 8, picking one at 16 makes it a little easier to take, but I thought before the draft they should wait until the second. There were quite a few guys that wanted us to just take a QB at 8 and not take the chance of not getting our guy. Manuel needs to sit for a year IMO, but when you take a QB in the first round you almost have to start him, at least according to some fans and media people.

[Captain Obvious]

You would have wasted a 6th round pick then. We signed him as a Free Agent.

I wanted the Bills to take Rogers in the 6th Round. I never would have guessed he would go undrafted and that the Bills would sign him. So yes I did waste a 6th Round pick. My 1st mistake

[swiper]

He didn't want any of them. That's the point. If Manuel is a franchise QB in 3-4 years this will be a silly silly critique. The Bills have not had bad teams for the past decade plus because we drafted good players too early. We've been bad teams because we drafted BUSTS. If Manuel is a bust you'll have a point. But you most definitely don't know that yet. Saying Nix is a "disgrace" is pretty harsh.
Think of it another way. The Jets got the best "value" with Geno Smith. If Geno is a great player the Jets will get and will deserve a lot of credit. If not? Who is going to care about the spot he was drafted? QB iis different than any other position. Nix wanted the guy he got. The fact that the others lasted a long time actually supports why it was important to get HIS choice. It all comes down to how Manuel does. If he hits it will be a great pick.

The funny thing about this quote is that of all those dozen years of misses on high-round picks, Nix has hit on three in a row. I think he just missed on his first one. But we'll see.

[gebobs]

You guys are suffering from Buddy Derangement Syndrome. Buddy's top priority was to come away with a QB, he picks up another 2nd and 7th and STILL gets his guy, and you **** on him for it? Weak.
So he gets a pass on the draft because he set out to do what he wanted, despite the consensus that he overreached on 3 of the top 4 picks? No thanks. Buddy got played again. Go ahead and buy your Manuel gear.

[Meathead]

We need a black one too. It's only fair. :D

running punters will never be successful in this league

[DraftBoy]

This is always a fun exercise:
1. QB Geno Smith-West Virginia
2. WR Robert Woods-USC
3. DE/OLB Damontre Moore-Texas A&M
4. OG JC Tretter-Cornell
5. SS Cooper Taylor-Richmond
6. WR Da'Rick Rogers-Tenn Tech
7. TE Chris Gragg-Arkansas

[cookie G]

1) Geno Smith - but I do recognise they've put in the time looking at the QB's. For the record, Geno's in serious trouble in NY unless there are some targets to throw to. He went into a bad, bad situation.

2a) Woods-When he was there at 2, it was the biggest no brainer in the draft.

2b) Arthur Brown- no slight to Kiko Alonso but I liked the Judge. And I liked him because he's fast, stronger than he looks, and most importantly, plays in position and knows how to tackle. That was my biggest beef with the D last year, lack of discipline, failure to tackle. I would have considered another WR here too.

3) Q. Patton- I know what they were/are trying to do with Goodwin. I don't have a real problem with it. I just think Patton's a better WR and a trio of he, SJ and Woods, with Freddie and Spiller would have been a hell of a lot of weapons. There still are.

4) Schwenke or Barrett Jones- to me, the 2nd biggest no brainer of the draft. A lot would have depended on how Jones' foot checked out. Both were there, both would have immediately upgraded the Oline at a small cost.

5) At this point I would have handed it over to Buddy,...here, now you can get your DB's.

[YardRat]

Hell, we even have fans denigrating Bill Polian, presumably on their quest to be a "realist".

If you're referring to some of my comments in the past, I never attempted to 'denigrate' Polian, just emphasize the fact that even the great ones miss just as much as, maybe even moreso, than they hit.

[pmoon6]

If you're referring to some of my comments in the past, I never attempted to 'denigrate' Polian, just emphasize the fact that even the great ones miss just as much as, maybe even moreso, than they hit.No Yardie, I wasn't referring to you. I've read some **** from people that said Polian was lucky and not as good as people say. That Bruce Smith and Peyton Manning were no brainers, which is just stupid. Ryan Leaf was thought of as having a bigger upside as Manning because of his arm.

And with Bruce, there were other D-lineman like Ray Childress and Chris Doleman that were highly rated as well as some O-lineman which we needed. I guess he was lucky taking receivers from Kutztown and Chadron State as well or engineering the three way trade that brought Biscuit to Buffalo.

As far as your point, you are correct. No GM can hit all the time. If they can get two or three starters every draft, that's pretty good.

[BertSquirtgum]

So he gets a pass on the draft because he set out to do what he wanted, despite the consensus that he overreached on 3 of the top 4 picks? No thanks. Buddy got played again. Go ahead and buy your Manuel gear.

No

[justasportsfan]

No. I liked Barkley better based on reports. I said all along that they should have waited to take a QB no higher than their 2nd round pick if they were insisting on taking a QB this year.

oh no you didn't. This is what you posted a few days ago


I could live with Barkley at #16.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/218386-NFL-Draft-Musings-Rumors-v2-0

:busted:

[feldspar]

For the price of 8 huge picks in the first, basically we got an alcoholic problem/project. I'll bookmark this for when he becomes an all-pro.

I absolutely LOVE the Kiko Alonso pick. That kid is a baller.

[Bill Cody]

Did you mean were or were not?
Were not- typo

[coastal]

I said this in another thread. After our 5th round pick, Eison asked the panel who they thought was doing well so far and Mike Mayock said "Buffalo". Then later on in the day, Charles Davis talked about us doing well. Hardly Bills' "Homers".

Personally, I think all the negativism is a function of Fans wanting to be "real" and not be a homer. They become overly critical. I remember Steve Tasker saying once that when he does Bills games he walks a tightrope becaue he doesn't want to sound like a homer but he also doesn't want to over compensate.

I don't watch many college football games so I have to rely on people that I respect and are knowledgeable. Davis and Mayock are two of the best IMO. So called Bills' Fans, not so much.

Besides, not even the guys that do this for a living really know. In '89, a lot of teams draft boards had Tony Mandarich rated above Troy Aikman. In '96, Ray Lewis was the 5th linebacker taken because many scouts thought he lacked size. These are people that look at lots of players and get paid for doing so.

If it's an either or proposition, I'd rather be called a homer than somebody that constantly *****es about every move that the team makes. Hell, we even have fans denigrating Bill Polian, presumably on their quest to be a "realist".:rofl:

approaching a decade and a half of no playoffs and being a "realist" is akin to being on one side of debatable topic?

homers make lemmings seem like rugged individualists.

[better days]

I can overlook a young man doing stupid things in college provided he grew out of them. The LB in question did stupid things early in college and appears to have grown out of them. If you went to college and didn't do something stupid then you did it wrong. Sure not maybe something involving law enforcement, but something stupid. Other than not drafting a guard I think this was a decent draft. Of course, I will say the key words of this draft are "no excuses." They got the first qb picked in the draft and so if EJ fails then no excuses the whole front office should get **** canned. Its really a no loss draft. EJ turns into an all pro who does what no qb has done with this team since Flutie -- get us into the post season -- then its all gravy. If EJ busts bad and its business as usual then I have no qualms of the next owner --Ralph, unless he is a cyborg will be dead within the next couple of years -- completely gutting the front office.

Ralph is holding on staying alive until the cyborg brain transfer is a reality.

[pmoon6]

:rofl:

approaching a decade and a half of no playoffs and being a "realist" is akin to being on one side of debatable topic?

homers make lemmings seem like rugged individualists.Suck it in San Francisco.

Whaaaaa!! No playoffs. ~ Metrosexual AntiFans.

[JoeMama]

I'll give these guys some credit.

They pulled down STL's pants in a trade, then they took "their guy" at #16.

Believe me, after watching every game EJ Manuel played at FSU, I see zero hope for the kid since he has zero NFL attributes.

But I'm willing to pretend I'm neutral and will give Manuel a chance. I'll pretend to be patient.

Stranger things have happened than a collegiate bum turning into a good pro. Tom Brady didn't light anyone on fire at Michigan.

[swiper]

oh no you didn't. This is what you posted a few days ago


:busted:

Not at all. If I had to live with a QB at #16, I wanted it to be Barkley. Still feel that way.

Thanks for trying though.

[justasportsfan]

Not at all. If I had to live with a QB at #16, I wanted it to be Barkley. Still feel that way.

Thanks for trying though.
thats exactly what I meant. You would have lived with drafting Barkley in the first? A qb that got drafted in the 4th? 32 GMs/coaches disagree with you including BB , Chip Kelly, etc. Talk about MAJOR reach.

[k-oneputt]

How about you post what you would of done at each pick instead based on the players that were available. Document it so this thread can be bumped in a couple years to see who was right.

You mean like what we did instead of picking Whitner and Maybin and all the small school wonders who all sucked ?

[mjt328]

I"m hardly a Nix supporter, and I've got conflicting opinions on this draft (ironically I think the UDFA signing of Da'Rick Rogers was one of the best moves they made all weekend).

For the record, I also would have preferred Geno Smith and Matt Barkley over EJ Manuel (I was relieved not to see Ryan Nassib) - so I'm iffy on the player.

HOWEVER... It is completely ignorant for anyone to say the Bills were stupid by taking EJ Manuel at #16. It was completely justified.

Since coming here, Nix has always gone for value over need in the early rounds. And it's backfired miserably, leaving us with scraps at the most important position in football. Consider, this is the same team that blew it last year by expecting Russell Wilson to fall into the 4th Round. I'm sure Nix has been kicking himself for 12 months over that one. And if he was really honest, I wonder if Nix thought Kaepernick or Dalton would slip to him in the 3rd round in 2011. Another failure.

Entering Thursday night, most of the football world had EJ Manuel ranked as a 2nd round guy - expected to be picked somewhere between the mid/late 1st round (earliest) and early 3rd round (absolute latest). NFL history has shown QBs almost always get drafted earlier than where they should. Considering the needs of teams drafting between #16 and #41, it was reasonable to expect a couple QBs to come off the board before the Bills picked again. The majority of mock drafts that I saw, had Philadelphia taking Manuel at #36. My brother (a huge Eagles fan) tells me this was the expectation by MOST fans and media experts in Philly as well.

In retrospect, after watching all of the QBs drop in the draft, the chances seem pretty good that Manuel would have lasted to #41. But with the information Buffalo was armed with on Thursday evening, while on the clock, it was a big risk.



Going back to the message topic, I updated my draft picks during each round this weekend. I'll leave them in my signature for the next year.

[Historian]

I've read some **** from people that said Polian was lucky and not as good as people say. That Bruce Smith and Peyton Manning were no brainers, .

.

Polian himself talks about how there were those in the Bills organization that wanted Flutie, lol.

[k-oneputt]

Since were playing:

1. Barkley
2. Woods
2. A. Brown - lb
3. B. Williams -ot
4. D. Sims - te
5. K. Stills -wr
6. B. Rambo -s
7. D. Rogers -wr

[Saratoga Slim]

There's really no basis for saying that. Maybe he'd go undrafted like Bray, maybe Philly scoops him up in the second, or maybe someone else jumps up to the back of the first. You have absolutely no idea what other teams thought of him. Of all the professionals who spend all year researching and studying this information in depth with inside info, no one had a very accurate prediction of how this draft would unfold, especially in regards to QB, so hind-sight speculation about where he might have gone is pointless. The only relevant question with Manuel is whether he'll pan out. If he does it was a good pick, if he doesn't it wasn't. That's all.

True. And you've got to figure that if the Bills had EJ rated as the #1 QB on their board, they had to figure that other teams would see the same positives that they did. Thus, you can't really question WHERE they took him, only how good they are at evaluation.

[swiper]

thats exactly what I meant. You would have lived with drafting Barkley in the first? A qb that got drafted in the 4th? 32 GMs/coaches disagree with you including BB , Chip Kelly, etc. Talk about MAJOR reach.

What you should take from that is that no team outside of Buffalo and the Jets is too worried about their QB situation.

[Mike]

Now this is the way you say it if you didnt want EJ in Rd1.

Not I would have traded down again because you dont know if that opp was there. And not I would of waited till rd 2 for EJ cause you dont know if he would of lasted. Philly was suppos hot after him

THAT OPTION WAS THERE!!! BILLS GM AND STAFF WERE QUOTED AS SAYING THAT TEAMS AT THE BOTTOM OF ROUND ONE CALLED TO MOVE UP AND WERE OFFERING LATE FIRST PLUS ADDITIONAL PICKS -AT LEAST A SECOND- BUT THE BILLS WERE AFRAID OF MISSING OUT ON EJ!

WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE:
1. TRADE DOWN FROM 16 TO 30-31 [WE CAN ASSUME MOST PROBABLY IT WAS SF THAT WANTED TO TRADE UP -SINCE THEY ENDED UP TRADING UP- AND SAY WE ONLY RECEIVED ANOTHER 2ND ROUNDER]

WITH TRADE DOWN
1.31: JUSTIN HUNTER WR
2.41: ROBERT WOODS WR
2:46: ARTHUR BROWN LB
2.61: LARRY WARFORD G (FROM SF ORIGINAL 2ND RD PICK)
3.78: DAMOTRE MOORE DE
4.105: RYAN NASSIB QB

Good overall draft that gives me two great QB prospects, along with a top LB, G, and my future back up QB...

WITHOUT TRADE DOWN
1.16: JARVIS JONES LB
2.41: ROBERT WOODS WR
2:46: ARTHUR BROWN LB
3.78: MATT BARKLEY QB
4.105: BARRETT JONES G
This options solidifies our LB corps, adds a decent G and a potential starting QB. Further, it solidifies WR cors as you have S. Johnson, R. Woods, TJ Graham, as a legit WR corps. Overall, the pendulum swings too hard in both directions, overall Matt Barkley is not as good as his first overall pick as predicted before start of season nor as bad as the average 4th round pick.

[swiper]

THAT OPTION WAS THERE!!! BILLS GM AND STAFF WERE QUOTED AS SAYING THAT TEAMS AT THE BOTTOM OF ROUND ONE CALLED TO MOVE UP AND WERE OFFERING LATE FIRST PLUS ADDITIONAL PICKS -AT LEAST A SECOND- BUT THE BILLS WERE AFRAID OF MISSING OUT ON EJ!

WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE:
1. TRADE DOWN FROM 16 TO 30-31 [WE CAN ASSUME MOST PROBABLY IT WAS SF THAT WANTED TO TRADE UP -SINCE THEY ENDED UP TRADING UP- AND SAY WE ONLY RECEIVED ANOTHER 2ND ROUNDER]

WITH TRADE DOWN
1.31: JUSTIN HUNTER WR
2.41: ROBERT WOODS WR
2:46: ARTHUR BROWN LB
2.61: LARRY WARFORD G (FROM SF ORIGINAL 2ND RD PICK)
3.78: DAMOTRE MOORE DE
4.105: RYAN NASSIB QB

Good overall draft that gives me two great QB prospects, along with a top LB, G, and my future back up QB...

WITHOUT TRADE DOWN
1.16: JARVIS JONES LB
2.41: ROBERT WOODS WR
2:46: ARTHUR BROWN LB
3.78: MATT BARKLEY QB
4.105: BARRETT JONES G
This options solidifies our LB corps, adds a decent G and a potential starting QB. Further, it solidifies WR cors as you have S. Johnson, R. Woods, TJ Graham, as a legit WR corps. Overall, the pendulum swings too hard in both directions, overall Matt Barkley is not as good as his first overall pick as predicted before start of season nor as bad as the average 4th round pick.

Exactly. Not to mention this all assumes that EJ Manuel was the best QB in this draft just because Buddy Nix drafted him as the first QB. Which is the kool aid that everyone is drinking here. 31 other teams didn't think that highly of him. These rumors that Philadelphia was high on him were.... just rumors. Kool-aid. Tastes great. Comes in a variety of flavors.

[justasportsfan]

What you should take from that is that no team outside of Buffalo and the Jets is too worried about their QB situation.

and they would have been worried if they took a qb that you could live with like Barkley? I wouldn't care if it was EJ, Nassib, Barkley, Geno,etc. they took as long as it was the qb they wanted an not a qb they settled for.

I'm not sure if the jets settled for Geno but I'm 100% sure the bills didn't settle for anyone.

[sudzy]

I would have drafted Eifert at 16. Woods at 41. Then I probably drafted QB at 41. Manuel if he was there. Barkley if he wasn't. I know that would have been a reach with what I know now, but, I am trying to take hind sight out of it. Two of the top weapons in the draft with the first two picks. Any of these QBs were a crap shoot as far as I'm concerned. If I grab the guy I liked most in the second or later and he doesn't show anything, then I don't feel obligated not to draft another QB next year if I get the chance at one.

[feldspar]

I've read some **** from people that said Polian was lucky and not as good as people say. That Bruce Smith and Peyton Manning were no brainers

Well, we ARE talking about first overall picks here. You have MONTHS to decide who that player would be...you can take anything you want. In my opinion, the Peyton Manning pick was a no-brainer. I thought so at the time. Sorry, but I'm just not impressed by that particular choice.

I'm not putting Polian down in any way, but he basically had two Hall of Fame quarterbacks on his teams in Indy and Buffalo. You have that ALONE, and chances are that your team is going to be good, competitive every single year really. He inherited Jim Kelly and yeah, Peyton Manning was a no-brainer to me.

Polian also slapped a team together quickly in Carolina, but that wasn't built for the long haul.

He's a proven great GM, but I think that Bills fans are biased in a lot of ways because he was the GM in the glory days in Buffalo. Some people act like he's a God or something.