Roll Call

[coastal]

Ok... the Bills have turned the page and in one day added 3 players with more than questionable pasts.

so far it appears the overwhelming majority of posters are more than okay with bringing in some character question marks. Afterall... people like that kick ass.

and the Bills need some "kick ass".

i have a question before I sign off on this directional change along with the rest of the horde.

who here was calling for and supported Marshawn Lynch's exit from WNY?

[Joe Fo Sho]

I hated that trade, we gave up Lynch for peanuts. The only argument I half agree with was that he was close to a full year suspension with Goodell's new rules. I never thought he was a 'bad seed' and I loved his on the field antics. Plus I just bought his jersey.

[RedEyE]

I was. He was becoming a bit of a distraction and at the time we were stacked at RB. Value was there. I only wish they had traded him before the season as his value was even higher then. And in looking at the RBs we have today, I still back the decision. I don't disagree with it.

But I will definitly feel even better about it if Spiller can reach the next level.

[CoolBreeze]

The biggest difference is the 2 draft picks are a few years removed from what they did. Rogers hasn't failed a test in a year. Marshawn was a professional when he did his. Lynch was also 1 strike away from being banned.

[Tatonka]

i wasnt necessarily a proponent of him being shipped out but that said, he was one more infraction away from being suspended for a full calendar year.. we had to get value for him when we could so i understood their rationale.. none of these kids have gotten in trouble in the nfl.. its a clean slate.. marshawn hit someone in a car and drove off.. he didnt leave anyone with a choice.

[justasportsfan]

.Having Lynch didn't bother me but I wanted a dynamic back and Lynch was nothing great at that time.Lynch was also 1 mistake away from being suspended for an entire season.

[YardRat]

I did. Didn't trust him to clean up, which apparently he did. Of course, his head coach is Pete Carroll, so even if Lynch has ****ed up nobody will know about it until down the road sometime.

I'm still good with the move, although I do enjoy watching him tote the rock still.

[jimmifli]

I couldn't cheer for a guy that would hit and run, leaving a pedestrian in the street. I'm glad he was traded, although I think we got hosed.

Drug and alcohol problems, bar fights, gun possession violations or other random jackassery don't really bother me. I don't need choir boys, but someone that harms defenceless people isn't really someone I want on my team.

[Buddo]

The biggest difference is the 2 draft picks are a few years removed from what they did. Rogers hasn't failed a test in a year. Marshawn was a professional when he did his. Lynch was also 1 strike away from being banned.

Pretty much this.

Lynch couldn't get over himself when he was in Buffalo, by all accounts. It's a pity, but it is what it is. His production had declined also. He was becoming a distraction. He was also suspended while he was with the Bills, and was only one more discretion away from a full season off.
Does he still have some sort of legal thing to go through, from since he's been in Seattle?

The biggest point, for me, is that trouble found Lynch when he was with the Bills. If the same thing happens to any of the guys we drafted, then they will likely need to be looked at in a different fashion.
TBH, the two drafted kids who had alcohol related issues, are both seemingly sorted out now, anyway. Rogers would be the guy I would worry about, and not because I'm anti weed, but more because he hasn't the same track record of being ok that the other two have.

These guys were not professional football players, when they did whatever it was they did. Lynch was, and he should have known better.

From here on in, these kids are professional football players, and they had better start behaving like it, if they haven't yet, or they will find out that the NFL stands for 'Not For Long'.

[pmoon6]

Lynch needed a change of scenery and a fresh start so the trade was good for both parties. I said so at the time. He also seemed to not have the same drive as his first two years and his production showed it.

It also doesn't seem like Marshawn has changed or learned from his mistakes. He got popped for DUI last July. It seems to me he has the attitude shared by quite a few sports stars. They think they can do anything they want because of who they are.

The draftees are a little younger than Lynch, so a mistake can more easily be overlooked as long as it doesn't keep happening. I'm also not one of these fans that don't care about thuggish and illegal behavior as long as the team wins. I expect that players on my team conduct themselves as professionals and become good examples in the community. I'd much rather have a guy like Chris Speilman than a selfish guy like Bruce Smith as well.

[TacklingDummy]

Ok... the Bills have turned the page and in one day added 3 players with more than questionable pasts.

so far it appears the overwhelming majority of posters are more than okay with bringing in some character question marks. Afterall... people like that kick ass.

and the Bills need some "kick ass".

i have a question before I sign off on this directional change along with the rest of the horde.

who here was calling for and supported Marshawn Lynch's exit from WNY?

I didn't like Lynch's character issues and broke balls on it every chance I had to bash him. I didn't want him gone because of it. I wanted him gone at the time because Fred Jackson was the better back.
Since then Lynch has been the better back and the Bills backs have been injury prone. What the Bills should have done is kept Lynch and drafted JPP.

Character issues really don't mean much if that player performs.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What you can't think for yourself and decide if you like the draft or not?

[SquishDaFish]

I wanted him gone because I liked Jackson and he was one problem away from a year suspension and with his idiotic **** he did in Buffalo Im sure it would of happened. We didnt get a good deal for him IMO though and was upset at that part.

[swiper]

We were told there weren't enough carries for both players and that one had to go. FJax is one of my favorite players in years. I didn't hate having Lynch at all though. Glad he's doing well.

[coastal]

I hated that trade, we gave up Lynch for peanuts. The only argument I half agree with was that he was close to a full year suspension with Goodell's new rules. I never thought he was a 'bad seed' and I loved his on the field antics. Plus I just bought his jersey.
Jersey value... check.

- - - Updated - - -


I was. He was becoming a bit of a distraction and at the time we were stacked at RB. Value was there. I only wish they had traded him before the season as his value was even higher then. And in looking at the RBs we have today, I still back the decision. I don't disagree with it.

But I will definitly feel even better about it if Spiller can reach the next level.
Poor trade value.. but distraction too much and replacements make u forget about him.

[coastal]

The biggest difference is the 2 draft picks are a few years removed from what they did. Rogers hasn't failed a test in a year. Marshawn was a professional when he did his. Lynch was also 1 strike away from being banned.
Risk reward analysis.

[coastal]

i wasnt necessarily a proponent of him being shipped out but that said, he was one more infraction away from being suspended for a full calendar year.. we had to get value for him when we could so i understood their rationale.. none of these kids have gotten in trouble in the nfl.. its a clean slate.. marshawn hit someone in a car and drove off.. he didnt leave anyone with a choice.
Risk reward with some weird moral gray line thrown in.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Jersey value... check.

Figures that would be all you could comprehend out of my response.

[coastal]

.Having Lynch didn't bother me but I wanted a dynamic back and Lynch was nothing great at that time.Lynch was also 1 mistake away from being suspended for an entire season.
Another risk reward.

[coastal]

I did. Didn't trust him to clean up, which apparently he did. Of course, his head coach is Pete Carroll, so even if Lynch has ****ed up nobody will know about it until down the road sometime.

I'm still good with the move, although I do enjoy watching him tote the rock still.
Reasoned consistent support of move. Where do you fall with our new bad boy recruits?

[coastal]

I couldn't cheer for a guy that would hit and run, leaving a pedestrian in the street. I'm glad he was traded, although I think we got hosed.

Drug and alcohol problems, bar fights, gun possession violations or other random jackassery don't really bother me. I don't need choir boys, but someone that harms defenceless people isn't really someone I want on my team.
Another weird gray line...

many chance these "excusable" behaviors are a jumping board for other bad boyness type stuff or may have a deleterious affect on the team?

[coastal]

Figures that would be all you could comprehend out of my response.
You're not that complicated.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm with Dummy on this at the time Jackson was the better back so moving Lynch didn't bother me any.

It wasn't cause he was a thug or idiot that I wanted him gone, it was because the other guy on the RB depth chart was performing better on the field.

[SpikedLemonade]

I think I was supportive of Lynch being traded away because I figured he would do it again and we would lose him for a whole year then he would be worth nothing.

I actually can understand young men being young men and making drug and drinking related mistakes.

I am forgiving of that rather then pieces of **** like Moulds and Henry who father children and then need to be taken to court in order for them to support their children.

[coastal]

I supported Marshawn Lynch's trade.

He didn't and doesn't represent the WNY community. I also don't support going after players with checkered pasts.

its not that people don't make mistakes... it's not that people can't change... it's that for a team that is so woven into the fabric of the community like the Buffalo Bills are, why would we support bringing in people that have not only taken their gifts and talents for granted... but abused the opportunity those gifts afford them... oportunitites almost all of us will never have.

i honestly believe we should expect better.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You're not that complicated.

Well it must be a comprehension thing, reading is hard for some. Especially when there's upwards of 4 sentences.

[YardRat]

Reasoned consistent support of move. Where do you fall with our new bad boy recruits?

I'm OK with them right now...all are starting with a clean slate, IMO, and the opportunity to prove their mistakes were simply youthful indiscretions.

[DraftBoy]

I was in support of the move to trade Lynch and support the addition of the current "troubled" players.

[Rob's House]

I supported it, although I would have preferred more compensation. He really didn't come into his own until his second year in Seattle. When he started with Buffalo he was a physical runner who wasn't big or strong enough to effectively power through NFL defenses. Then he bulked up, but was too slow to get away. In his second year in Sea he found the balance and has looked really good. In retrospect, it would be nice to have a big bodied bruiser of a back, but I also think getting a fresh start was good for him, and I'm not sure how well it would have worked out for him here.

[bleve]

The character thing. I agree with it. That's not to say someone with a troubled past has no character. The difference is the ones who have learned from their mistakes, and have made efforts to come clean vs. the ones who have had transgressions and hired high-priced lawyers to make them go away and continue to live as if consequences don't exist.

I did support the trade, but thought we should have gotten more value.

[Extremebillsfan247]

Ok... the Bills have turned the page and in one day added 3 players with more than questionable pasts.

so far it appears the overwhelming majority of posters are more than okay with bringing in some character question marks. Afterall... people like that kick ass.

and the Bills need some "kick ass".

i have a question before I sign off on this directional change along with the rest of the horde.

who here was calling for and supported Marshawn Lynch's exit from WNY?

I was for Lynch staying because his talent was too good to let him just go because he kept getting himself into trouble outside of the game. Lack of maturity as it turns out, played a role in that. He's doing fine in Seattle.

However, lol When the Bills drafted CJ Spiller, they had 1 RB too many, and I knew someone had to go. The 3 RB system just wasn't working. Lynch seemed the obvious odd man out because of his record off the field. It's unfortunate because I loved his running style. But, he's gone now, so it's water under the bridge. JMO

[ThunderGun]

I wasn't on Billszone when we ran Lunch out of town, but I was 1000000% against it. I'm pretty sure I'm banned from buffalobills.com because of all the arguments I got into with mouth-breathing Lynch-haters.

[jimmifli]

any chance these "excusable" behaviors are a jumping board for other bad boyness type stuff or may have a deleterious affect on the team?

They probably are a "jumping board" for worse behaviour. But until that happens it's the player's business not mine.

I don't see it as a "weird gray line" at all. I draw the line at harming other people. I can cheer for **** ups that don't hurt other people. I can't cheer for people that harm others.

Other people can draw the line (or not) where ever they want, I don't judged, I just know my own feelings. Lynch took the fun out of cheering for the Bills. None of these player's transgressions (at least the ones I'm aware of) do.

[The King]

He quit on the team and at the time Freddy was playing far better. I wanted the trade I hate what we got in return.

[Bill Cody]

I was in full support of the trade. The comp was what we could get. If the draft picks turn out to be punks I'll support moving them too. Until then I support the picks.

[Historian]

I just wanted my daughters to be safe...

[jimmifli]

I also don't support going after players with checkered pasts.

its not that people don't make mistakes... it's not that people can't change... it's that for a team that is so woven into the fabric of the community like the Buffalo Bills are, why would we support bringing in people that have not only taken their gifts and talents for granted... but abused the opportunity those gifts afford them... oportunitites almost all of us will never have.

I liked Matt Taibi's predraft opinion on this:


DRAFT THE WEED GUY. There's never been a more obvious year to capitalize on failed-drug-test draft fallers. To quickly recap: guys who batter cheerleaders with bricks or commit armed robbery or drive drunk with loaded pistols in their glove compartments are genuine character concerns, but a kid who just likes to smoke weed... that's every college student in America. You want your star athlete, if he's going to have a vice, to be a pothead. In fact, hopefully, he's going straight from practice to his TV, blazing up and watching cartoons all afternoon. That means he's not getting in real trouble. Yet every year, great talents like Percy Harvin and Moss and Sapp plummet in the draft because of failed weed tests, and smart teams scoop them up, put them on the Whizzinator therapy plan, and cash in big-time.

Three big-time players fall into this category this year: ex-LSU corner Tyrann "Honey Badger" Mathieu, ex-Tennessee/Tennessee Tech receiver Da'Rick Rogers, and that California wideout Keenan Allen. Minus the drug issue, Rogers might have been the top wide receiver on the board this year – he was one of the best wideouts in college in 2011 and should have been first-team all-SEC that year over both LSU's Reuben Randle (who had a good rookie year in the NFL last fall) and Arkansas wideout Jarius Wright (who didn't). The guy is built like a young T.O., has great hands, and runs like the proverbial bowling ball covered with razor blades. But he's going in the second or third round, if not later, because he failed drug tests, got booted from Tennessee and had to spend this year getting triple-covered at Tennessee Tech (where he still managed to run laughing through the whole Oregon defense on a middle screen last November).






Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/the-nfl-draft-decoded-part-iii-20130423#ixzz2RxmIzqnD

[coastal]

I played college hockey briefly... guess what... I didn't blaze up when I was playing.

and the guy who beat out D'Rick... one of my 5 card studs.

[PTI]

I never wanted Lynch to go. Huge Marshawn fan. There was never a reason to trade him, or, in reality, to draft Spiller.

Currently, Spiller is my favorite Bills player though.

[pmoon6]

one of my 5 card studs.Look at Meee. Look at Meeee.

[jimmifli]

I played college hockey briefly... guess what... I didn't blaze up when I was playing.

Maybe you should have.

[coastal]

Maybe you should have.
I didn't want to risk having a positive test result nor was I interested in finding out about the consequences if I had.

Seems like a pretty normal train of thought.

[BidsJr]

I'd much rather have a guy like Chris Speilman than a selfish guy like Bruce Smith as well.


I can't believe this little gem was allowed to slide.

[jimmifli]

I didn't want to risk having a positive test result nor was I interested in finding out about the consequences if I had.

Seems like a pretty normal train of thought.

Certainly.

It shows the guy had poor judgement. And if I couldn't cheer for people with poor judgement I wouldn't be a Bills fan.

[swiper]

I can't believe this little gem was allowed to slide.

I lived in Florida for a time way back when. A young guy that worked for me said his girlfriend went to college when/where Bruce did. Said Smith sold coke at all the campus parties. Love Bruce Smith, but like Lawrence Taylor, these guys aren't all saints. I also don't know Chris Spielman, but the perception (I think) is that he was much more a team guy (as in teammate) than Bruce was to guys at times. Although IDK.

[pmoon6]

I lived in Florida for a time way back when. A young guy that worked for me said his girlfriend went to college when/where Bruce did. Said Smith sold coke at all the campus parties. Love Bruce Smith, but like Lawrence Taylor, these guys aren't all saints. I also don't know Chris Spielman, but the perception (I think) is that he was much more a team guy (as in teammate) than Bruce was to guys at times. Although IDK.Spielman exemplifies what you admire in a professional athlete and a man. As good as Bruce was, if it wasn't for Daryl Talley he wouldn't have become the NFL's leading sack leader. He was unmotivated early in his career and had drug problems. Talley pushed him to excel.

After the Super Bowls, it got tedious listening to Bruce complain about how much money he was making or the "pecking order" BS when a free agent got a better contract.

So, don't let it slide, make your argument and refute what I just said.

[swiper]

Spielman exemplifies what you admire in a professional athlete and a man. As good as Bruce was, if it wasn't for Daryl Talley he wouldn't have become the NFL's leading sack leader. He was unmotivated early in his career and had drug problems. Talley pushed him to excel.

After the Super Bowls, it got tedious listening to Bruce complain about how much money he was making or the "pecking order" BS when a free agent got a better contract.

So, don't let it slide, make your argument and refute what I just said.

I believe I supported that idea in my post.

[coastal]

Certainly.

It shows the guy had poor judgement. And if I couldn't cheer for people with poor judgement I wouldn't be a Bills fan.
BS... the "poor judgment" card is akin to the "I made a mistake" card.

Theres a difference between poor judgment and stupid or bad people.

do you trust the Bills front office to make that delineation when they can't even keep an oline together?

[pmoon6]

I believe I supported that idea in my post.I apologize, I quoted the wrong post.

Indeed you did.

A small synopsis of Chris Spielman's life and career.

Chris Spielman lived and breathed football from a young age. He was born in the cradle of the sport near Canton, Ohio. He excelled because he worked hard and would have played pro football for nothing. (his words) I used to watch the Bills' at a sports bar with Ed Kelly, Jimbo's older brother. He was in the weight room after we signed Spielman. He said Chris and Bryce Paup were animals in the gym. He used the word "scary" because of their intensity. Ed was no stranger to weights himself, pretty big guy and muscular as well. Spielman's legacy goes far beyond the field. His wife got breast cancer when Chris was trying to come back from neck surgery. He was bound and determined to beat the odds and play again. When he got the news, he quit the game he loved to care for his wife. It was a no brainer for him. She went into remission after a year, so he tried a comeback that ended with another injury in preseason with the Browns, his favorite team. He retired and dedicated the rest of his life to her and his family. She passed away a few years ago, but not before the Spielman's raised millions of dollars for cancer research. That endeavor remains alive today because Spielman still gives his time in memory, and there is a hospital bearing Stephanie's name. Built with the money they raised.

If that is not more important than winning a few football games, maybe some of you should recheck your priorities and credit and admire the players that actually give back.

[pmoon6]

BS... the "poor judgment" card is akin to the "I made a mistake" card.

Theres a difference between poor judgment and stupid or bad people.

do you trust the Bills front office to make that delineation when they can't even keep an oline together?Pffft. Coastal would pay a guard 9 million a year. Maybe you should take an accounting course.

I hope Blondie does the finances.

[BidsJr]

I apologize, I quoted the wrong post.

Indeed you did.

A small synopsis of Chris Spielman's life and career.

Chris Spielman lived and breathed football from a young age. He was born in the cradle of the sport near Canton, Ohio. He excelled because he worked hard and would have played pro football for nothing. (his words) I used to watch the Bills' at a sports bar with Ed Kelly, Jimbo's older brother. He was in the weight room after we signed Spielman. He said Chris and Bryce Paup were animals in the gym. He used the word "scary" because of their intensity. Ed was no stranger to weights himself, pretty big guy and muscular as well. Spielman's legacy goes far beyond the field. His wife got breast cancer when Chris was trying to come back from neck surgery. He was bound and determined to beat the odds and play again. When he got the news, he quit the game he loved to care for his wife. It was a no brainer for him. She went into remission after a year, so he tried a comeback that ended with another injury in preseason with the Browns, his favorite team. He retired and dedicated the rest of his life to her and his family. She passed away a few years ago, but not before the Spielman's raised millions of dollars for cancer research. That endeavor remains alive today because Spielman still gives his time in memory, and there is a hospital bearing Stephanie's name. Built with the money they raised.

If that is not more important than winning a few football games, maybe some of you should recheck your priorities and credit and admire the players that actually give back.

Sorry, if I wanted to watch a soap opera I would watch General Hospital. I want to see the Bills win football games. Bruce Smith is a hall of famer, and was a beast in the field... Loved Speilman as well, but he did not impact the game (on the field) anywhere near as much as Bruce.

[swiper]

Sorry, if I wanted to watch a soap opera I would watch General Hospital. I want to see the Bills win football games. Bruce Smith is a hall of famer, and was a beast in the field... Loved Speilman as well, but he did not impact the game (on the field) anywhere near as much as Bruce.

Wow. Did you really just say that?

[pmoon6]

Sorry, if I wanted to watch a soap opera I would watch General Hospital. I want to see the Bills win football games. Bruce Smith is a hall of famer, and was a beast in the field... Loved Speilman as well, but he did not impact the game (on the field) anywhere near as much as Bruce.HaHaha. I guess you didn't watch him when he played in Detroit or even his first year in Buffalo.

That's what's wrong with a lot of fans. You don't appreciate character, passion or any of the ancillary stories that are involved in sport. You only care about how a game affects you. All that matters is your warm fuzzy on Sunday.

Pretty much indicative of today's society.

[BidsJr]

I did say that and I a not apologetic for it, I really liked Chris. But comparing Chris to Bruce is like comparing Fitz to Kelly. Sorry.

- - - Updated - - -


I did say that and I a not apologetic for it, I really liked Chris. But comparing Chris to Bruce is like comparing Fitz to Kelly. Sorry.
Oh, and for all the same reasons. Fitz was perfect off the field, Kelly was not.

[jimmifli]

BS... the "poor judgment" card is akin to the "I made a mistake" card.

Theres a difference between poor judgment and stupid or bad people.

I think there's a difference between stupid people and bad people. But on the other point I agree, "poor judgement" and "I made a mistake" are used to avoid admitting stupidity.

This guy is probably stupid. So, again, if I couldn't cheer for stupid people I'd probably be a Niners fan by now.

[SCBILLFAN1]

Ok... the Bills have turned the page and in one day added 3 players with more than questionable pasts.

so far it appears the overwhelming majority of posters are more than okay with bringing in some character question marks. Afterall... people like that kick ass.

and the Bills need some "kick ass".

i have a question before I sign off on this directional change along with the rest of the horde.

who here was calling for and supported Marshawn Lynch's exit from WNY?

I was applauding it because he's one screw up from being done.

I'm not real impressed by some of our draft picks past, but I'm willing to give them a chance. One chance.

Remember Bruce Smith got popped with reefer and the Superbowl teams were hard core drinkers.

WTF was Talley doing in Vegas the night before the superbowl and getting into a fight?

The sad fact is that football is a bad ass game and I don't think you can win with a team of boy scouts.

[pmoon6]

I was applauding it because he's one screw up from being done.

I'm not real impressed by some of our draft picks past, but I'm willing to give them a chance. One chance.

Remember Bruce Smith got popped with reefer and the Superbowl teams were hard core drinkers.

WTF was Talley doing in Vegas the night before the superbowl and getting into a fight?

The sad fact is that football is a bad ass game and I don't think you can win with a team of boy scouts.The Super Bowl teams had a mix of players. Some liked the party, Kelly used to have get togethers in his basement "pub". Then you had some pretty religious guys like Reich, Beebe and Metzelaars. Sometimes you even saw them on TV in prayer with some of the opposing team after the game was over.

As far as Bids post, I didn't say the Spielman was a better player than Bruce, I said I prefer to admire guys with heart and passion, even if they are not HOFers. Spielman played 3 games after he took a hit and lost feeling from his neck down for a couple minutes. Bruce sat out a playoff game with a fever and the flu. We lost to the Steelers because they didn't have to slide the protection to Smith's side and then were able to neutralize Paup.

Look, I liked Bruce Smith on the field, but he left a lot to be desired off it.

[Historian]

.

Remember Bruce Smith got popped with reefer .

Wasn't Bruce suspended for the first four games in 1988 for cocaine?

And FWIW, I thought Spielman was a HOF linebacker, just not for the Bills.

[pmoon6]

Wasn't Bruce suspended for the first four games in 1988 for cocaine?

And FWIW, I thought Spielman was a HOF linebacker, just not for the Bills.Yes, he was suspended. He also got popped for falling asleep at a red light in Virginia. It was early morning. He was arrested for DUI three times.

[Jan Reimers]

Back to the original question. I wanted Lynch gone. I will also want Duke Williams, Rogers and Alonso gone - along with any other Bill - who hits someone with a vehicle, runs away like a coward, and then hides behind his lawyer.

I have no problem drafting guys with some character issues, as long as they grow up and act like men when they get to Buffalo.

[TedMock]

BS... the "poor judgment" card is akin to the "I made a mistake" card.

Theres a difference between poor judgment and stupid or bad people.

do you trust the Bills front office to make that delineation when they can't even keep an oline together?

I agree on the "bad people" part. I do think that many stupid mistakes are made because of poor judgement and that does not mean a stupid person committed the act. A lot of good and intelligent people have done stupid things in their lives, especially in the high school and college years. I personally do not hold much of that against people. The severity and level of what they've done matters more, obviously. A kid smoking pot in college even though he's on an athletic team is a stupid decision, but it also does not define who or what he is; or who or what he will become. That would be quite the leap. Hell, I have a great education and I am in a very high position within a $3.7 trillion industry. I worked very hard to be successful at what I do. I am an honest person, a good husband and a good father. I was also extraordinarily immature at 19 years old. I played college football and we got stoned all the time when I was in my first two years of undergrad. It's been 20 years since I've done that. There were also the regular weekly drunken fights that we took part in. There could have been serious consequences. I know it was dumb. I knew it was dumb then, but didn't consider the consequences a whole heck of a lot at that time. I grew up, continued my education, got a job, worked hard, and progressed. It happens. I think people forget that these guys are still young and many are still very immature. If the kid is a sociopath there are bigger issues and I support steering clear of him. I think things have to be taken in proper context. It's not black and white in my opinion. I am not suggesting they not be held accountable. Everybody should be held accountable. Lessons are best learned through accountabiltiy. In Rogers' case, for example, he was held accountable. He did not take the warnings seriously and was ultimately kicked out of school. If that's what it took to wake him up and it turned out to work, then I am all for giving him a chance now. He was maybe 20-ish, so there is a lot of life left for him to live. If he screws up this golden opportunity now that he's a few years older, then cut him. He's no longer in a college atmosphere. He's now a professional. I would now hold him to that standard.