Fla. Legislature refuses to aid Fins

[BLeonard]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9240615/florida-legislature-refuses-help-aid-miami-dolphins



TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Florida's oldest professional sports franchise -- the Miami Dolphins -- has been dealt a crushing blow by the Florida Legislature, which ended its session without passing any funding plan that would assist the team's quest to refurbish its stadium.

The refusal of the GOP-controlled Legislature to aid the team before adjourning Friday evening wasn't just a defeat for the Dolphins -- it could also sack South Florida's efforts to lure another Super Bowl to the region in the next few years.


Wonder if this is the "Marlins Effect" coming back to bite Miami sports teams in the ass...

Also wonder if those fine people in Los Angeles will start talking about trying to lure the Dolphins out west now...

-Bill

[BidsJr]

ESPN dipping further and further into politics will be their undoing.

[stuckincincy]

ESPN dipping further and further into politics will be their undoing.

Yeah. ESPN. Real sweethearts...

ESPN Is The Biggest Reason Your Cable Bill Is So Expensive

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-09/sports/30497101_1_cable-companies-cable-channel-cable-customers

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/hiestand-biz/2013/02/28/espn-cable-tv-regional-sports-networks-verizon-fox/1947197/

[OLDSRIP]

How is that stadium? I have never been there. I think taxpayers are getting sick of supporting businesses that make outrageous profits.

[DynaPaul]

Seriously... Why should the citizens pay for it? It's a private business.

[better days]

Seriously... Why should the citizens pay for it? It's a private business.

Actually, it was to be paid by a tax on hotel rooms. I have no problem with that. If tourists want to come down here & clog the roads the stores & resturants, I say make them PAY.

[Buddo]

I think there's going to be quite a bit of fall-out from this.
Seems like the legislature conveniently managed to sideline what the Fins were trying to do, which in the first instance, was to get something passed, so as the people could vote on if they wanted a hotel tax to help fund the stadium, or not.
Much as I don't like to admit it, it would appear that the Fins were actually trying o do things the right way around, yet politics got in the way. There's a few things on PFT about it, and unless the Governor does something to allow a poll, in the very near future, the Fins will have no chance of hosting a SB before 2018, without paying for the necessary upgrades by other means.

[stuckincincy]

..."And although public funding may be off the table, there's always this: (Dolphins owner) Ross, who is worth $4.4 billion according to Forbes, could use some of his own money to finance the renovations. (We'd advise against holding your breath waiting for this eventuality.)".

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22196343/dolphins-owner-rips-florida-house-speaker-over-renovation-bill

[swiper]

Yeah. ESPN. Real sweethearts...

ESPN Is The Biggest Reason Your Cable Bill Is So Expensive

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-09/sports/30497101_1_cable-companies-cable-channel-cable-customers

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/hiestand-biz/2013/02/28/espn-cable-tv-regional-sports-networks-verizon-fox/1947197/

This is why the landscape is ripe for CBS, NBC or FOX to builf their own versions of ESPN. Competition would help[ to stop that.

[better days]

This is why the landscape is ripe for CBS, NBC or FOX to builf their own versions of ESPN. Competition would help[ to stop that.

NBC already has.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I haven't been there in probably 8 years but it was nice enough when I was. Can't imagine it has deteriorated all that much especially since they don't get the winter weather.

[Beebe's Kid]

This is why the landscape is ripe for CBS, NBC or FOX to builf their own versions of ESPN. Competition would help[ to stop that.
That sounds like a good idea...the old invisible hand. The problem is that everybody involved will be looking for profits, so if one of the other networks enters the fray, they will only think that they can do so for the $4.00/subscriber, and the cable bills will likely go up. Cable companies are also going to be looking for a little chunk on top, and as long as people are paying it, they'll keep charging. If they lose some viewers, they'll just raise the profits on those that remain to make up the difference. It would need to reach a point where an extremely large amount of viewers stopped paying...and that is unlikely, as there is little that Americans like than having the "freedom" to pick from 875 cable stations, of which they watch about three.

[DraftBoy]

NBC already has.

As has Fox, or will in a few months.

[better days]

I haven't been there in probably 8 years but it was nice enough when I was. Can't imagine it has deteriorated all that much especially since they don't get the winter weather.

Well, the HOT Fla Sun & wind & rain are very damaging.

[FinNasty23]

Seriously... Why should the citizens pay for it? It's a private business. Its not like Ross would be the only person benefiting from it. Getting this done would help secure Super Bowls, world soccer events, NCAA Championships, etc... which does a lot for the local economy. And we weren't paying a dime. Ross was paying 70% of it, and the balance was coming from a tourist tax that tourists would pay when staying in hotels. Oh, and the hotel association of Florida (whatever its called) was on board with it. If there was any overruns... Ross was paying for it. If we didn't get one of the next 2 Super Bowl bids... Ross would pay for the whole thing. And in 30 years, he will have paid every cent back. And for it to pass... the team wanted to let the people vote on it to approve it, that way no one felt like they were pulling a fast one forcing it through against the will of the people (ala. the Marlins). Ross made a ton of concessions and did everything to make that deal palatable to the city. But some guy trying to push his own political agenda cut it off before it even made it to the people. Its bull****...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

NBC already has.

So has CBS.

And Fox.

[ServoBillieves]

..."And although public funding may be off the table, there's always this: (Dolphins owner) Ross, who is worth $4.4 billion according to Forbes, could use some of his own money to finance the renovations. (We'd advise against holding your breath waiting for this eventuality.)".

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22196343/dolphins-owner-rips-florida-house-speaker-over-renovation-bill

I'm $3000 in debt while working my ass off and have trouble putting food on the table, yet someone out there has $4,400,000,000. America the beautiful.

Own a franchise, want the franchise to succeed? Put $200mil in its stadium and fans. Sorry he'd be down to $4.2 Bil.

[FinNasty23]

I'm $3000 in debt while working my ass off and have trouble putting food on the table, yet someone out there has $4,400,000,000. America the beautiful.

Own a franchise, want the franchise to succeed? Put $200mil in its stadium and fans. Sorry he'd be down to $4.2 Bil.

No offense, but I don't think you know much about the actual deal that was proposed. Its lazy to just take a position of opposition against a billionaire b/c you are $3,000 in debt w/o educating yourself on the actual proposal...

[ServoBillieves]

No offense, but I don't think you know much about the actual deal that was proposed. Its lazy to just take a position of opposition against a billionaire b/c you are $3,000 in debt w/o educating yourself on the actual proposal...

... What I quoted from an earlier article literally said not to hold your breath the owner chipping in as a billionaire. That's called an opinion by the person who wrote said article. I put what is also called an opinion on what was said writers opinion. Damn me for that! I don't know the intricacies of the deal, nor do I care to find out. Go post on a message board about it if you're upset with it.

[EricStratton]

When tourists pay extra for a hotel tax they have less money to spend on other aspects of their vacation. That indirectly takes money out of the local economy and puts it in the pockets of the team and their ownership.

[FinNasty23]

... What I quoted from an earlier article literally said not to hold your breath the owner chipping in as a billionaire. That's called an opinion by the person who wrote said article. I put what is also called an opinion on what was said writers opinion. Damn me for that! I don't know the intricacies of the deal, nor do I care to find out. Go post on a message board about it if you're upset with it.
Well, the guy who you quoted that said "Ross should use some of his own money" was clearly ignorant on the intricacies (actually just the basic generalities) of the deal, since Ross was using a ton of his own money in the original proposal. Ross was basically paying around 70% of the deal on his own already. He was putting his share in, and was looking for a public partnership that would benefit both the team and the local economy. All I was stating is that even though you characterized your statement as an opinion, it contained incorrect facts. You said he should just invest $200mil toward the team and its fans... yet he was already willing to invest much much more than that...

[FinNasty23]

When tourists pay extra for a hotel tax they have less money to spend on other aspects of their vacation. That indirectly takes money out of the local economy and puts it in the pockets of the team and their ownership.
That 1% tax was going to prevent tourists from spending on other aspects of their vacation? That's the equivalent of a bottle of sun screen...

[better days]

When tourists pay extra for a hotel tax they have less money to spend on other aspects of their vacation. That indirectly takes money out of the local economy and puts it in the pockets of the team and their ownership.

They can either come down with money in their pockets to spend or stay home & make my wait for a table at a resturant or line at the store that much shorter. Let the tourists PAY.

[EricStratton]

That 1% tax was going to prevent tourists from spending on other aspects of their vacation? That's the equivalent of a bottle of sun screen...


Every dollar counts

[FinNasty23]

Every dollar countsNot in a quantifiable amount. No one is altering their vacation plans due to a 1% tax on their hotel. Not in a way that would cause less money to go to the local economy. Saying otherwise is just being argumentative for the sake of it...

[better days]

Every dollar counts

As for me, unless tourists come down with enough money to spend, I would rather they stay home. Like I said the streets, resturants & stores are overcrowded we don't need any CHEAPSKATE toursits down here. If they can't afford a week, let them stay 4 days. When they leave, someone else will take their place.

[EricStratton]

I'm not being argumentative. In certain areas nearby competition will advertise that you won't pay the hotel tax and will draw business away. It's happened in areas along the Jersey Shore. When Ocean county put in a tax the hotels in Monmouth and Atlantic counties drew business away because of the tax even though it was only a few dollars a day.

[Historian]

It's a nice stadium, but it is 25 years old already.

Hard to believe it.

I just think that voters have bailout fatigue, that's all. If the economy were better, ie, jobs, this wouldn't even be an issue.

[FinNasty23]

I'm not being argumentative. In certain areas nearby competition will advertise that you won't pay the hotel tax and will draw business away. It's happened in areas along the Jersey Shore. When Ocean county put in a tax the hotels in Monmouth and Atlantic counties drew business away because of the tax even though it was only a few dollars a day.
...except that this is a statewide tax. People aren't going to not travel to the state b/c of a 1% tax. That's completely unrealistic.

[Extremebillsfan247]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9240615/florida-legislature-refuses-help-aid-miami-dolphins



Wonder if this is the "Marlins Effect" coming back to bite Miami sports teams in the ass...

Also wonder if those fine people in Los Angeles will start talking about trying to lure the Dolphins out west now...

-Bill
The Los Angeles Dolphins? It sounds nice but I doubt the NFL would allow it. The Dolphins geographically are in the wrong division to begin with. But to send them west would force the NFL into a total restructure of the divisions league wide. JMO

[BLeonard]

The Los Angeles Dolphins? It sounds nice but I doubt the NFL would allow it. The Dolphins geographically are in the wrong division to begin with. But to send them west would force the NFL into a total restructure of the divisions league wide. JMO

Well, first off, the NFL hasn't had much success in keeping teams in cities that they didn't want to be in. The Raiders, Rams and Ravens immediately come to mind.

Second, the team apparently is already making the threat: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9246386/miami-dolphins-pay-stadium-fixes-ceo-mike-dee



Dee said in the interview that 73-year-old owner Stephen Ross has no intentions to move the franchise, but at some point he'll sell the team and the aging stadium will be an issue confronting the new owner.

Dee was asked in the interview whether moving the franchise to Los Angeles now becomes an option.

"I don't think it's an option for Steve Ross, but for a subsequent owner? The Dolphins are one of the only franchises in the National Football League that do not have a long-term lease with their community," he said.


Most likely posturing, but that's been enough to scare Bills fans for the past 40 years...

-Bill

[better days]

It's a nice stadium, but it is 25 years old already.

Hard to believe it.

I just think that voters have bailout fatigue, that's all. If the economy were better, ie, jobs, this wouldn't even be an issue.

This wasn't about the voters, it was about the POLITICIANS. They did not allow it to be put up for a vote.

[Historian]

Right.

They are representing their constituants, who are tired of companies bellying up to the trough.

[better days]

Right.

They are representing their constituants, who are tired of companies bellying up to the trough.

WRONG, they are NOT representing their constituants, or they would let their constituants DECIDE for THEMSELVES if they WANT this or NOT. It is ALL ABOUT fighting among politicians.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The Los Angeles Dolphins? It sounds nice but I doubt the NFL would allow it. The Dolphins geographically are in the wrong division to begin with. But to send them west would force the NFL into a total restructure of the divisions league wide. JMO

I've never really thought about it like that with teams moving. That would be terrible for every team in that division to have to travel to the west coast for a division opponent. Not sure if it's enough to deter a team from moving though, no way they restructure the entire NFL because the Dolphins moved to the west coast.

- - - Updated - - -


WRONG, they are NOT representing their constituants, or they would let their constituants DECIDE for THEMSELVES if they WANT this or NOT. It is ALL ABOUT fighting among politicians.

Man, you really have a good time with that shift key.

[FinNasty23]

Well, first off, the NFL hasn't had much success in keeping teams in cities that they didn't want to be in. The Raiders, Rams and Ravens immediately come to mind.

Second, the team apparently is already making the threat: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9246386/miami-dolphins-pay-stadium-fixes-ceo-mike-dee



Most likely posturing, but that's been enough to scare Bills fans for the past 40 years...

-Bill

It's definitely posturing, but Ross has repeatedly said that he won't sell the team. Similarly to Ralph Wilson, it will not be sold until he dies, and will be sold by his family. Now, the difference is that Ross is only 73, so there (hopefully) will be tons of time to get something done.

[FinNasty23]

Right.

They are representing their constituants, who are tired of companies bellying up to the trough.
Why not let the voters speak for themselves? If they're "tired of companies bellying up to the trough"... then they'll vote it down and that will be the end of it. The Fins were picking up the tab for the expense to implement the vote... so there was nothing to lose. Except one douchebag stopped it to further his own political agenda. It's bull****...

[BLeonard]

It's definitely posturing, but Ross has repeatedly said that he won't sell the team. Similarly to Ralph Wilson, it will not be sold until he dies, and will be sold by his family. Now, the difference is that Ross is only 73, so there (hopefully) will be tons of time to get something done.

Well, I'd be willing to bet that, when Ralph Wilson was 73, most fans didn't think he'd live 20 more years, either. Also, not everyone lives to be the age that Wilson has...

IMO, this just seems to be another NFL CEO trying to use the "LA Boogeyman" to try and scare their current city into giving them what they want in the form of public funds.

-Bill

[FinNasty23]

Well, I'd be willing to bet that, when Ralph Wilson was 73, most fans didn't think he'd live 20 more years, either. Also, not everyone lives to be the age that Wilson has...

IMO, this just seems to be another NFL CEO trying to use the "LA Boogeyman" to try and scare their current city into giving them what they want in the form of public funds.

-Bill

There is b/c at the end of the day, it's business for both sides... and you need some sort of leverage. If Ross and the NFL said "I guarantee that the Fins will never leave, and Miami will still be regularly rewarded Super Bowls"... why in the world would the city give the team any money? Just as a handout out of kindness? That's not happening.

The city benefits too, and the deal proposed was still having Ross pay the majority, while having the balance paid for by non-Florida residents, that would eventually be paid back anyway. It's not like Ross was trying to screw anyone. After the Marlins deal... Ross couldn't if he tried. He couldn't even get a super favorable deal to go thru... let alone one that screws the city.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The NFL's super bowl restrictions are getting out of hand. If they won't even have them in Miami then we are basically down to a 4 city rotation: Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, and New Orleans with other cities like Indy, New York, San Fran and such only getting one in response to a new stadium.

[FinNasty23]

The NFL's super bowl restrictions are getting out of hand. If they won't even have them in Miami then we are basically down to a 4 city rotation: Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, and New Orleans with other cities like Indy, New York, San Fran and such only getting one in response to a new stadium.
But teams keep building new stadiums. Atlanta is going to get a new stadium, and Carolina is renovating theirs. And in a few years, there will be a couple more to follow them.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

But teams keep building new stadiums. Atlanta is going to get a new stadium, and Carolina is renovating theirs. And in a few years, there will be a couple more to follow them.

Charlotte is too cold and too rainy (worse than Miami in February), and the renovations don't compensate for that. Atlanta is a possibility, but they are still years away from opening it and there's the little matter of the historic church they want to put it on top of.

Minnesota will get one, but they haven't been in the rotation and likely will only get the one.

[ServoBillieves]

Charlotte is cold and rainy? News to me... Then again I lived in Pittsburgh most of my life so by comparison this is paradise.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Charlotte is cold and rainy? News to me... Then again I lived in Pittsburgh most of my life so by comparison this is paradise.

Too cold for the NFL's Super Bowl policy. They want a city that has 50 degree weather in February and ever since the rain during the Colts-Bears super bowl Goodell has been wanting stadiums to have covers over the seats. That's what this whole dustup in Florida was about.

[BLeonard]

Too cold for the NFL's Super Bowl policy. They want a city that has 50 degree weather in February and ever since the rain during the Colts-Bears super bowl Goodell has been wanting stadiums to have covers over the seats. That's what this whole dustup in Florida was about.

Yet, Super Bowl XLVIII is going to be played in New Jersey next February.... Always exceptions to the "rules," especially if the NFL feels that they can make money off of the situation.

Personally, I hope that there is a freak snowstorm the night before the Super Bowl next year, so they have no time to move the game and have to delay it for an obscene amount of time. Give the NFL the black eye they deserve for getting greedier and greedier with each passing year.

-Bill

[FinNasty23]

Charlotte is too cold and too rainy (worse than Miami in February), and the renovations don't compensate for that. Atlanta is a possibility, but they are still years away from opening it and there's the little matter of the historic church they want to put it on top of.

Minnesota will get one, but they haven't been in the rotation and likely will only get the one.
You could be right about Carolina's renovations. I don't know any of the details regarding that. But Minny is a good one. Them and Atlanta have a couple coming up. 2015 and 2016 will go to SF and Houston, so Atlanta has 3-4 years to get one done. Say maybe Minny in 2017 and Atlanta in 2018? Who knows by 2015 what stadiums will be up for renovation/construction? Of course, there aren't going to be new stadiums every year, but between them getting a Super Bowl, it dwindles down the number of Super Bowls that go to the "standard" locations. And if the other "standard" locations have better stadiums... Miami's getting left out in the cold.

[FinNasty23]

Yet, Super Bowl XLVIII is going to be played in New Jersey next February.... Always exceptions to the "rules," especially if the NFL feels that they can make money off of the situation.

Personally, I hope that there is a freak snowstorm the night before the Super Bowl next year, so they have no time to move the game and have to delay it for an obscene amount of time. Give the NFL the black eye they deserve for getting greedier and greedier with each passing year.

-Bill

I'm pulling for a blizzard...

[better days]

The NFL's super bowl restrictions are getting out of hand. If they won't even have them in Miami then we are basically down to a 4 city rotation: Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, and New Orleans with other cities like Indy, New York, San Fran and such only getting one in response to a new stadium.

Tampa should be included in this list.

[Historian]

WRONG, they are NOT representing their constituants, or they would let their constituants DECIDE for THEMSELVES if they WANT this or NOT. It is ALL ABOUT fighting among politicians.

Sorry, you don't know Florida.

It's full of old geezers who do not want to spend money on anything...schools, roads, stadiums, etc.

[DraftBoy]

Charlotte is too cold and too rainy (worse than Miami in February), and the renovations don't compensate for that. Atlanta is a possibility, but they are still years away from opening it and there's the little matter of the historic church they want to put it on top of.

Minnesota will get one, but they haven't been in the rotation and likely will only get the one.

Only thing bigger than God in Atlanta is football, the chuch won't be an issue in the end. Blank, Reed, and Deal will be sure of that.

[DraftBoy]

If San Diego ever gets a new stadium the NFL will play multiple Super Bowls there. Perfect location imo.

[don137]

Charlotte's average high in early February is low 50s so weather is not ideal but adequate. Charlotte's biggest issue from what I heard when the topic comes up is not enough hotels to accommodate all the people. The Panthers did not get near what they were asking for from the state and local officials for all the renovations they wanted to do. Their renovations include escalators to upper deck and a new video board.

[better days]

Sorry, you don't know Florida.

It's full of old geezers who do not want to spend money on anything...schools, roads, stadiums, etc.

I live on the West Coast of Fla & have since 1984, I KNOW it very well. The point is the old geezers won't be paying for it, the TOURISTS will PAY for it. In ANY event, this has NOTHING to do with the Politicians failure to put it up for vote.

It is NOT representing your constituants to not let them have a say on ANY matter that affects them.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Yet, Super Bowl XLVIII is going to be played in New Jersey next February.... Always exceptions to the "rules," especially if the NFL feels that they can make money off of the situation.

Personally, I hope that there is a freak snowstorm the night before the Super Bowl next year, so they have no time to move the game and have to delay it for an obscene amount of time. Give the NFL the black eye they deserve for getting greedier and greedier with each passing year.

-Bill
That's what I said, The owners' and Goodell's policy of late has been to give out a Bowl to cities that build a new stadium: Indy, Jacksonville, Detroit, New York, etc. But for most of those it's not likely coming back. AFAICT, neither Detroit nor Jacksonville has even submitted a second bid since they hosted theirs.

I personally want the game in New York to be in the cold but also to do very well, so that cities like Denver, Chicago, Boston, Washington, Philly, etc join the running to host.


Tampa should be included in this list.

It should be but for whatever reason it always seems to lose in the final three. The owners just don't seem to like it.


Only thing bigger than God in Atlanta is football, the chuch won't be an issue in the end. Blank, Reed, and Deal will be sure of that.

Maybe, but bigger projects have been stalled over worse reasons.


If San Diego ever gets a new stadium the NFL will play multiple Super Bowls there. Perfect location imo.

Yeah, whichever city gets the new stadium (LA or San Diego) immediately joins the rotation.

[sukie]

The imporvements are not to aid the Dolphins but the local area. Period. This is big business down here. Hosting big stage events is a cash cow to the local economy and this is nothing at all like the deal the Marlin's got.

[BLeonard]

That's what I said, The owners' and Goodell's policy of late has been to give out a Bowl to cities that build a new stadium: Indy, Jacksonville, Detroit, New York, etc. But for most of those it's not likely coming back. AFAICT, neither Detroit nor Jacksonville has even submitted a second bid since they hosted theirs.

I personally want the game in New York to be in the cold but also to do very well, so that cities like Denver, Chicago, Boston, Washington, Philly, etc join the running to host.

Well, I live in Indiana and the city of Indianapolis actually lost money from hosting the Super Bowl: http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2012/01/27/3289/indianapolis-to-lose-money-on-super-bowl/



The Capital Improvement Board of Marion County is budgeting for total Super Bowl expenses of $8 million and revenue of nearly $7.2 million, leaving a loss of $810,000.

The main added costs are for extra police time and hiring of additional temporary workers. That’s partly made up for new tax revenues from the estimated $200 million in spending that will go on in the city during Super Bowl week,

But that tax money is limited, in part because, notes the IBJ:
The NFL is using its tax-exempt status (yes, the NFL is tax-exempt, and yes, lots of other people also think this is ridiculous) to get its employees out of paying hotel and restaurant taxes.
Food and beverage taxes collected inside Lucas Oil Stadium also won’t be going to the CIB, but will be diverted to the NFL.


Maybe that's why some cities aren't bidding on it again... It's profitable for the NFL, but not for the cities that host it... at least not in Indianapolis' case...

As for "cold" cities being in consideration if the New Jersey Super Bowl is successful, I wouldn't bet on it... The ONLY reason Metlife is getting a Super Bowl is to try and get money from the NYC market.

-Bill

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, I live in Indiana and the city of Indianapolis actually lost money from hosting the Super Bowl: http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2012/01/27/3289/indianapolis-to-lose-money-on-super-bowl/

The city government lost money, but the cities' bars, hotels, nightclubs, restaurants, cabs, etc all made windfalls.


As for "cold" cities being in consideration if the New Jersey Super Bowl is successful, I wouldn't bet on it... The ONLY reason Metlife is getting a Super Bowl is to try and get money from the NYC market.

Well yeah but there are other profitable markets too. And Goodell has listened to fan reaction before, if the NY Bowl is a major hit then I think the other cold weather owners might push for their own.

[DraftBoy]

Maybe, but bigger projects have been stalled over worse reasons.
True, and Atlanta is notorious for killing good spending projects (most notably our recent TSPLOST vote) but this one has different motivations.

[DraftBoy]

Charlotte's average high in early February is low 50s so weather is not ideal but adequate. Charlotte's biggest issue from what I heard when the topic comes up is not enough hotels to accommodate all the people. The Panthers did not get near what they were asking for from the state and local officials for all the renovations they wanted to do. Their renovations include escalators to upper deck and a new video board.

Yea but with all the transit money that's pouring into the Charlotte area I wonder if more hotels will follow. One of the things that always kills Atlanta is traffic issues when it comes to big events. Even on a typical Sunday afternoon leaving or entering the city you find gridlock. When Atlanta killed its TSPLOST last summer it sent a crap ton of money to Charlotte for mass transit and jobs. Cost the state hundreds of millions in future jobs.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

True, and Atlanta is notorious for killing good spending projects (most notably our recent TSPLOST vote) but this one has different motivations.

Well duh, of course that failed. What the hell kind of acronymn is TSPLOST? If they wanted it to pass, they should have used PATRIOT or DREAM or, since it was Georgia, the BEER or GRITS act.

[FinNasty23]

Well, I live in Indiana and the city of Indianapolis actually lost money from hosting the Super Bowl: http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2012/01/27/3289/indianapolis-to-lose-money-on-super-bowl/



Maybe that's why some cities aren't bidding on it again... It's profitable for the NFL, but not for the cities that host it... at least not in Indianapolis' case...

As for "cold" cities being in consideration if the New Jersey Super Bowl is successful, I wouldn't bet on it... The ONLY reason Metlife is getting a Super Bowl is to try and get money from the NYC market.

-BillThat's b/c Indy isn't set up with the infrastructure to handle an event like that... so they have to dedicate everything they have and bring in extra resources on top of that to handle it. For Miami? The Super Bowl would be like a slightly busy weekend. Our city was built for events like that...

[don137]

Yea but with all the transit money that's pouring into the Charlotte area I wonder if more hotels will follow. One of the things that always kills Atlanta is traffic issues when it comes to big events. Even on a typical Sunday afternoon leaving or entering the city you find gridlock. When Atlanta killed its TSPLOST last summer it sent a crap ton of money to Charlotte for mass transit and jobs. Cost the state hundreds of millions in future jobs.

I heard Atlanta traffic is a nightmare especially around rush hour. In Charlotte they are building condos not hotels along the light rail lines. I have not heard of any plans to add hotels along the light rail line.

When the Democratic Convention was in Charlotte last September hotels were booked all over the area and were maxed out on capacity. Obama stayed about three miles from where I live and i am 20 miles away from the city. The Super Bowl would draw a much larger volume of visitors than the convention. No way Charlotte could handle the Super Bowl even though I would love it. Just not realistic.

[gebobs]

Actually, it was to be paid by a tax on hotel rooms. I have no problem with that. If tourists want to come down here & clog the roads the stores & resturants, I say make them PAY.

Tax the user. If you want to tax people for using roads, use a gas tax. If you want to finance a stadium, tax the tickets.

[FinNasty23]

Tax the user. If you want to tax people for using roads, use a gas tax. If you want to finance a stadium, tax the tickets.

But then locals end up paying for it. Instead, the hotel tax has other people pay for it that want to use our state for vacation. The latter is MUCH better.

[MDFINFAN]

Look guys, this was unprecedented, the dolphins were going to pay back all the money..this was basically a 30 year loan..when have you seen that in recent public financed projects of major league sports teams. The tithe owner was paying nearly 70 percent...I've never seen a deal like this before...plus it was only a one percent hike on hotels fees which aren't that expensive in the first place when compared to major cities in the north like NYC. Not only will the SB tickets be expensive..wait until the fans see hotel bills and the eating costs...the nfl won't be going back to NY any time soon. Fl is way cheaper for fans.

[gebobs]

But then locals end up paying for it.
Not quite. Those who go to games, local or otherwise, pay for it.


Instead, the hotel tax has other people pay for it that want to use our state for vacation. The latter is MUCH better.
Better for you but maybe not so much for the hotel folks. But sure, if you can continue to fund your government and public works at the expense of visitors, by all means, do it.

It's fine by me. I'm not partial to Florida. It's too flat for me. Went to St. Augustine last year. That was touristy, but not so bad. Also took a cruise (never do that again) out of Canaveral. What a cesspool that is. On the other hand, my cousin moved to W. Palm so we'll probably go visit her.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Not quite. Those who go to games, local or otherwise, pay for it.

So no one is going to pay for it?

[better days]

Not quite. Those who go to games, local or otherwise, pay for it.


Better for you but maybe not so much for the hotel folks. But sure, if you can continue to fund your government and public works at the expense of visitors, by all means, do it.

It's fine by me. I'm not partial to Florida. It's too flat for me. Went to St. Augustine last year. That was touristy, but not so bad. Also took a cruise (never do that again) out of Canaveral. What a cesspool that is. On the other hand, my cousin moved to W. Palm so we'll probably go visit her.


We have had record numbers of tourists this past season & next year is expected to be even better. The Hotels will not suffer.

[Mike]

Here is the fundamental questions: Who owns the Stadium?

1) If the Team owns the Stadium and the land it sits on, its theirs to improve. Asking the city of help in this case is quite strange from the standpoint that government is only entertaining this offer simply because it is big business which should put a very sour taste in your mouth as you can imagine all of the other 'deals' that government and business do that you do not hear about.

2) If the City owns the Stadium and the land: In this case the City would be mostly responsible for the improvements as it is their stadium. This being said, when a business like Starbucks gets a retail location, the landlords usually give back $$$ for TI (tenant improvements) and if the lease was long enough -15 years for small retail- the landlord would do the build out. So, if the stadium belongs to the city, the city can pay for a portion of it in the same way other landlords pay TI, or pay the entire cost and make up for it in the lease, or make the tenant responsible for their own improvements.

In any case, if the 'people' give something they too should get something in return greater that what they gave. Its amazing to me that a bank can screw people over in a multitude of ways and when its time to bail them out, we the people play nice.

[gebobs]

We have had record numbers of tourists this past season & next year is expected to be even better.
Sounds good. That's why I said if you can do it, you should. 90 million visitors to Florida last year thanks in some part to the GOP convention in Tampa. Miami-Dade alone though took in $20 billion in hotel revenue. A small 2% tax over 5 or 6 years should do it. Just don't expect the hospitality industry to join the maypole dance and gleefully submit.

[gebobs]

So no one is going to pay for it?

I was just saying that it would be the most equitable if those that use it, stadium attendees, pay for it. I don't think locals that go to games should have to pay for it at all. Same for Buffalo or any other place.

But sure, if you can finance it on the backs of the state's best customers i.e. tourists, absolutely do it. Seeing as tourism is the biggest above-the-board industry in the state and accounts for 10% of GDP, it's the easiest mark and has been for years. Florida has the good fortune to have it to rely on.

[DraftBoy]

I heard Atlanta traffic is a nightmare especially around rush hour. In Charlotte they are building condos not hotels along the light rail lines. I have not heard of any plans to add hotels along the light rail line.

When the Democratic Convention was in Charlotte last September hotels were booked all over the area and were maxed out on capacity. Obama stayed about three miles from where I live and i am 20 miles away from the city. The Super Bowl would draw a much larger volume of visitors than the convention. No way Charlotte could handle the Super Bowl even though I would love it. Just not realistic.

Atlanta traffic is nightmare on the weekends, rush hour is a situation I don't wish on any person alive.

Sad to hear, I have friends in Charlotte that I visit annually but we always meet up at Topsail Island where they have a house.

[gebobs]

I don't think locals that go to games should have to pay for it at all.

Should read: I don't think locals that DON'T go to games should have to pay for it at all.

[FinNasty23]

Not quite. Those who go to games, local or otherwise, pay for it.


Better for you but maybe not so much for the hotel folks. But sure, if you can continue to fund your government and public works at the expense of visitors, by all means, do it.

It's fine by me. I'm not partial to Florida. It's too flat for me. Went to St. Augustine last year. That was touristy, but not so bad. Also took a cruise (never do that again) out of Canaveral. What a cesspool that is. On the other hand, my cousin moved to W. Palm so we'll probably go visit her.

Well, the hotel and tourist association of Florida (cant remember the exact name of the organization) was on board with it... so if the hotels were cool with it, whats there not to like?

[FinNasty23]

Sounds good. That's why I said if you can do it, you should. 90 million visitors to Florida last year thanks in some part to the GOP convention in Tampa. Miami-Dade alone though took in $20 billion in hotel revenue. A small 2% tax over 5 or 6 years should do it. Just don't expect the hospitality industry to join the maypole dance and gleefully submit.

The hospitality industry gave it the thumbs up...

[Joe Fo Sho]

I was just saying that it would be the most equitable if those that use it, stadium attendees, pay for it.

I know what you were saying. I was just saying that the Dolphins don't have any stadium attendees.

[better days]

Should read: I don't think locals that DON'T go to games should have to pay for it at all.

Yeah, because we all know life is nothing if not fair.

[FinNasty23]

I know what you were saying. I was just saying that the Dolphins don't have any stadium attendees.

Dont worry... I got your joke... ;)

[gebobs]

The hospitality industry gave it the thumbs up...

Well, hell yeah then. What's the problem? Seems like a no brainer.

[FinNasty23]

Well, hell yeah then. What's the problem. Seems like a no brainer.

Hence why its so frustrating that it got blocked by some douchbag politician trying to futher his own political agenda before it even made it to public vote...

- - - Updated - - -

BTW... good to see you gebobs. Havent seen you in a while...

[gebobs]

Hence why its so frustrating that it got blocked by some douchbag politician trying to futher his own political agenda before it even made it to public vote...
But from what I read, there was 73% opposition.


BTW... good to see you gebobs. Havent seen you in a while...
Just got back from that den of liberal hedonism, San Francisco.

Lunch last Thursday at Swan's Oyster Depot on Polk...

16446

[FinNasty23]

But from what I read, there was 73% opposition.


Just got back from that den of liberal hedonism, San Francisco.

Lunch last Thursday at Swan's Oyster Depot on Polk...

16446

Not sure where you saw that, but it was at around a 55-60% approval from what I've seen.

[FinNasty23]

Sounds good. That's why I said if you can do it, you should. 90 million visitors to Florida last year thanks in some part to the GOP convention in Tampa. Miami-Dade alone though took in $20 billion in hotel revenue. A small 2% tax over 5 or 6 years should do it. Just don't expect the hospitality industry to join the maypole dance and gleefully submit.

Hey gebobs... where did you get that hotel revenue number?

[Blondie]

Well, hell yeah then. What's the problem? Seems like a no brainer.

Here is my take ..

Tampa did a HUGE make over with the Bucs Stadium. Guess what .. they still don't get the attendance.

Miami may look at that and maybe would rather use their money else where.

[better days]

Here is my take ..

Tampa did a HUGE make over with the Bucs Stadium. Guess what .. they still don't get the attendance.

Miami may look at that and maybe would rather use their money else where.

Huge Makeover? Well, I guess you could call a TOTALLY NEW Stadium a huge Makeover. The Bucs had no problem selling out when they were WINNING & when they start winning again, I expect them to sell out again.

[Night Train]

There was a Miami based reporter on CBS sports radio this morning, stating the Fins owner is worth something like 4-5 Billion and has pledged to give away 2.5 Bil of it to charity later in life. Plus he's in the process of purchasing a major bank. Yet he won't put a dime of his own $$ into those improvements. Speaks volumes of his long term outlook towards the team.

Miami spent like a drunk with lotto winnings this spring on Free Agency. The fallout will be next year when they are reportedly deep in cap hell and will remind Dade county residents of the Marlins with a mass slashing of the roster. They are ALL in..for 1 year ! Then, the owner wouldn't care if L.A. made him an offer. Oh, the irony of that, after dozens of the doom and gloom crowd here declared the Bills all but moved to California. Now the Dolphins come into play. :rofl:

[Blondie]

Huge Makeover? Well, I guess you could call a TOTALLY NEW Stadium a huge Makeover. The Bucs had no problem selling out when they were WINNING & when they start winning again, I expect them to sell out again.

WERE WINNING was the key part of your post.

They won't be WINNERS again for a long time.

Thing with BUCS fans ... we have other FUN stuff to do on Sundays other than tailgate and watch football.

[FinNasty23]

There was a Miami based reporter on CBS sports radio this morning, stating the Fins owner is worth something like 4-5 Billion and has pledged to give away 2.5 Bil of it to charity later in life. Plus he's in the process of purchasing a major bank. Yet he won't put a dime of his own $$ into those improvements. Speaks volumes of his long term outlook towards the team.

Miami spent like a drunk with lotto winnings this spring on Free Agency. The fallout will be next year when they are reportedly deep in cap hell and will remind Dade county residents of the Marlins with a mass slashing of the roster. They are ALL in..for 1 year ! Then, the owner wouldn't care if L.A. made him an offer. Oh, the irony of that, after dozens of the doom and gloom crowd here declared the Bills all but moved to California. Now the Dolphins come into play. :rofl:

What are you talking about?!? lol

The proposal had him paying for nearly 70% of the rennovations...

[Mike13]

There was a Miami based reporter on CBS sports radio this morning, stating the Fins owner is worth something like 4-5 Billion and has pledged to give away 2.5 Bil of it to charity later in life. Plus he's in the process of purchasing a major bank. Yet he won't put a dime of his own $$ into those improvements. Speaks volumes of his long term outlook towards the team.

Miami spent like a drunk with lotto winnings this spring on Free Agency. The fallout will be next year when they are reportedly deep in cap hell and will remind Dade county residents of the Marlins with a mass slashing of the roster. They are ALL in..for 1 year ! Then, the owner wouldn't care if L.A. made him an offer. Oh, the irony of that, after dozens of the doom and gloom crowd here declared the Bills all but moved to California. Now the Dolphins come into play. :rofl:

The only contract that will come close to "putting us in cap hell" would be Wallace's.
The Fins will be 17 million or so under the cap by June 1st.

Do some research next time.

[DynaPaul]

When tourists pay extra for a hotel tax they have less money to spend on other aspects of their vacation. That indirectly takes money out of the local economy and puts it in the pockets of the team and their ownership.

Exactly, who wants to pay extra taxes on vacation in this economy? Either way, they want to charge people, be they tourists or residents, who have zero benefit from this stadium so that the few can profit from it. If they were to raise ticket prices to cover the stadium that would be more acceptable since the money is coming from the pockets of people who are actually using it.

[MDFINFAN]

Exactly, who wants to pay extra taxes on vacation in this economy? Either way, they want to charge people, be they tourists or residents, who have zero benefit from this stadium so that the few can profit from it. If they were to raise ticket prices to cover the stadium that would be more acceptable since the money is coming from the pockets of people who are actually using it.

It would have been a 1 percent tax hike...Ross was putting up almost 60 percent of the cost and any over runs.. The phons were going to pay the loan from the state. 4000 jobs would have been created. Major events and SB's would put great money back into the state and local economy. But the team agreeing to pay back the money was major, when have you heard of such a thing.

[better days]

Exactly, who wants to pay extra taxes on vacation in this economy? Either way, they want to charge people, be they tourists or residents, who have zero benefit from this stadium so that the few can profit from it. If they were to raise ticket prices to cover the stadium that would be more acceptable since the money is coming from the pockets of people who are actually using it.

If tourists don't want to come to Fla because of that tax, I am all for them staying home.

[DraftBoy]

The Falcons new stadium is going to be utilizing money from a 7% Hotel/Motel tax.

[DynaPaul]

If tourists don't want to come to Fla because of that tax, I am all for them staying home.

There are other warm weather states with just as many attractions such as California. Floridians rely a lot on tourism and it would be foolish to alienate them.

[better days]

There are other warm weather states with just as many attractions such as California. Floridians rely a lot on tourism and it would be foolish to alienate them.

We have more tourists than we can handle. We get MANY tourists from Europe. California would be much further for them to go & would cost them more than the tax, but then they would get the added attractions of gang violence, smog & earthquakes. I doubt a small tax on hotels is going to deter too many people, but if a few thousand less are here in season I would be happy about that.

[DynaPaul]

We have more tourists than we can handle. We get MANY tourists from Europe. California would be much further for them to go & would cost them more than the tax, but then they would get the added attractions of gang violence, smog & earthquakes. I doubt a small tax on hotels is going to deter too many people, but if a few thousand less are here in season I would be happy about that.

Hey, you moved there... Deal with it.

[better days]

Hey, you moved there... Deal with it.

I have NO REGRETS about moving to Fla. I LOVE IT here. And I have no choice but to deal with the tourists & one of the ways we do that is to make them PAY.

[DraftBoy]

The only contract that will come close to "putting us in cap hell" would be Wallace's.
The Fins will be 17 million or so under the cap by June 1st.

Do some research next time.

Not true, there are a few of the contracts that have massive 2nd year cap hits based on reports. Hartline, Wallace, Ellerbe, and Wheeler all have numbers around 10.225 for 2013 but are at 37.775 for 2014. That doesn't necessarily mean they are in trouble but this its more than just one contract that could bite them. Not to mention Wake needs to be re-done since he would be the 3rd or 4th highest paid player in 2014.

[better days]

Not true, there are a few of the contracts that have massive 2nd year cap hits based on reports. Hartline, Wallace, Ellerbe, and Wheeler all have numbers around 10.225 for 2013 but are at 37.775 for 2014. That doesn't necessarily mean they are in trouble but this its more than just one contract that could bite them. Not to mention Wake needs to be re-done since he would be the 3rd or 4th highest paid player in 2014.

I heard on Sirius that the players signed this offseason will count towards about 45% of the cap next year which means some players that were already on the team will have to be let go.

[DraftBoy]

I heard on Sirius that the players signed this offseason will count towards about 45% of the cap next year which means some players that were already on the team will have to be let go.

That's based on early estimates and guys like Matt Moore and Patterson (combined $10+ Million in 2014) will likely be let go to make room. If the cap jumps they will likely be fine.

[better days]

That's based on early estimates and guys like Matt Moore and Patterson (combined $10+ Million in 2014) will likely be let go to make room. If the cap jumps they will likely be fine.

You are saying the same thing I just said, some players will have to be let go.

[DraftBoy]

You are saying the same thing I just said, some players will have to be let go.

Not technically, they are estimated to still be $20 Millionish under next year. They don't have to, but the contracts no longer make sense so they will likely let them go.

[DynaPaul]

I have NO REGRETS about moving to Fla. I LOVE IT here. And I have no choice but to deal with the tourists & one of the ways we do that is to make them PAY.

Now that's a great way to make them feel welcome. Florida "The f%@k you, pay me state."

[gebobs]

At the risk of sounding like sour grapes, I think Florida is way overrated. It's flat as a pancake and 99% of the shoreline has been overdeveloped with ugly motels and condos with cheesy strip malls just inland. Cocoa Beach doesn't look anything like what I remember on I Dream of Jeannie.

For my money, I'd rather go to Okracoke or Cumberland islands.

But no one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the average American.

[better days]

At the risk of sounding like sour grapes, I think Florida is way overrated. It's flat as a pancake and 99% of the shoreline has been overdeveloped with ugly motels and condos with cheesy strip malls just inland. Cocoa Beach doesn't look anything like what I remember on I Dream of Jeannie.

For my money, I'd rather go to Okracoke or Cumberland islands.

But no one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the average American.

Well, I hope more people think like you & don't come here. like I said there are already more tourists that come here than we can handle & the fact Siesta Key beach was voted as the #1 beach in the WORLD probably has something to do with that.

And yes, if you do come here, expect to pay.

[gebobs]

Siesta Key beach was voted as the #1 beach in the WORLD probably has something to do with that.
Hehe...not quite. Some guy named it the best beach in America in 2011. That guy? Dr. Stephen Leatherman. aka "Dr. Beach" (so lame), Director of Florida International University’s Laboratory for Coastal Research. Maybe not exactly an objective source.

I used to go to Siesta Key with my ex-in-laws. It was nice. The sand is bright white and never got too hot, but it was too crowded and overdeveloped for my taste. It's up there certainly for the US, but for the world? No.

[better days]

Hehe...not quite. Some guy named it the best beach in America in 2011. That guy? Dr. Stephen Leatherman. aka "Dr. Beach" (so lame), Director of Florida International University’s Laboratory for Coastal Research. Maybe not exactly an objective source.

I used to go to Siesta Key with my ex-in-laws. It was nice. The sand is bright white and never got too hot, but it was too crowded and overdeveloped for my taste. It's up there certainly for the US, but for the world? No.

[better days]

I really need to quit arguing as Fla for a place people should go to, but there are MANY organizations, sites etc that rate the World beaches. Every year. Siesta Keys has been rated the #1 beach in the WORLD on more than one occasion.

The 99% quartz sand on Siesta beach has been voted the best in the WORLD. And while Siesta Key is well developed, it is much less so than on the East Coast of Fla & it has height limits & there is no development on Siesta beach except for a pubic pavilion to get snacks, take a shower & go to the bathroom.

[DraftBoy]

I'll pass on all of Florida's beaches, must rather travel to more exclusive locations.

[better days]

I'll pass on all of Florida's beaches, must rather travel to more exclusive locations.

Well, I'm happy to have you do that. People need to stop coming to Florida.

[justasportsfan]

I just got back from Fla. flew n to tampa, then Ft. Myers, the Ft. Lauderdale, then Orlando and flew out of tampa. Fun times. Florida drivers make me dizzier than roller coasters though.

[better days]

I just got back from Fla. flew n to tampa, then Ft. Myers, the Ft. Lauderdale, then Orlando and flew out of tampa. Fun times. Florida drivers make me dizzier than roller coasters though.

Those were probably drivers from other States or Countries on vacation in many cases. A while back, there were criminal types targeting people in rental cars so they have taken measures to make rental cars look like they are owned by residents of Fla.

Glad you had a good time while you were here.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I'm gonna start taking monthly trips to Florida with all of my friends just to piss off people that don't want anymore visitors to that State. Plus we'll bring all of our own food and stay in our Winnebago so we don't have to waste any of our money on that damned State's economy. We'll spend all of our time driving around aimlessly and getting hammered on beaches...and taking **** to any Dolphins fans we see.

[justasportsfan]

Those were probably drivers from other States or Countries on vacation in many cases.

tourists and snowbirds.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

So Miami not only lost out on Super Bowl 50 (Santa Clara) they immediately lost out again on Super Bowl 51 (Houston)

http://www.mercurynews.com/southbayfootball/ci_23291204/we-got-it-santa-clara-host-50th-super

[better days]

I'm gonna start taking monthly trips to Florida with all of my friends just to piss off people that don't want anymore visitors to that State. Plus we'll bring all of our own food and stay in our Winnebago so we don't have to waste any of our money on that damned State's economy. We'll spend all of our time driving around aimlessly and getting hammered on beaches...and taking **** to any Dolphins fans we see.

Well, you will fit right in with the low lifes that come here.

[DraftBoy]

Well, I'm happy to have you do that. People need to stop coming to Florida.

No problem here, I'll pass on that redneck riviera.

[Mike13]

I'm gonna start taking monthly trips to Florida with all of my friends just to piss off people that don't want anymore visitors to that State. Plus we'll bring all of our own food and stay in our Winnebago so we don't have to waste any of our money on that damned State's economy. We'll spend all of our time driving around aimlessly and getting hammered on beaches...and taking **** to any Dolphins fans we see.

Way to go Billy Badass.

[better days]

No problem here, I'll pass on that redneck riviera.

Happy to have you not come to Florida, but please, there are EXCLUSIVE places here that I DOUBT you could afford. There are Islands or Keys as we call them in Fla that are accessible only by privately owned boats or planes.

[DraftBoy]

Happy to have you not come to Florida, but please, there are EXCLUSIVE places here that I DOUBT you could afford. There are Islands or Keys as we call them in Fla that are accessible only by privately owned boats or planes.

Your reactions this whole thread have been hysterical. You don't want people to visit but will combat even the slightest negative view towards Florida.

Also you mean Little Palm Island that serves the Gumby Slumber?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Way to go Billy Badass.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/508/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

[better days]

Your reactions this whole thread have been hysterical. You don't want people to visit but will combat even the slightest negative view towards Florida.

Also you mean Little Palm Island that serves the Gumby Slumber?

Google Cabbage Key for one. I have eaten there a number of times, but have never stayed there overnight. A GREAT way to spend a day if you can afford it, charter a sailboat for the day, Sail to Cabbage Key, eat lunch & sail back to Ft Myers. There are a NUMBER of KEYS that are very EXCLUSIVE & can only be reached by private boat or plane. Cabbage Key is only one such place. There are also places like Marco Island where the NFL holds meetings that are accessible to all but that are only affordible to the well off for any length of time.

I am happy to see people enjoy their time in Fla, I am NOT happy when I have to WAIT in lines at resturants or stores or put up with IDIOTS on the road. It is a double edged sward & I make no money personally from tourists, although my brother inlaw does have a SMALL condo on the Island of Venice on the BEACH that he rents when he is not in the Country. PM me if you are interested in that.

[better days]

I just thought about it, my brother-inlaws Condo should be available when the Bills play down here if booked well ahead of time. PM me if interested. The Europeans are REALLY hitting us hard lately so I doubt it is something you can get into late & is about a 1 hour drive to the Stadium.

[gebobs]

The Europeans are REALLY hitting us hard lately
Bobby Clarke wouldn't take that stuff. ;-)

[better days]

Bobby Clarke wouldn't take that stuff. ;-)

I know it & I REALLY feel like hitting back myself. This past season I thought I would avoid the tourists by going to the store late at night. Well I went to Wally world at about 11 PM did my shopping & went to check out only to find that a family of tourists were ahead of me in line & they must have just arrived here because they bought out the store. I waited about 40 min. That is the kind of thing that drives me CRAZY in season.

[gebobs]

I know it & I REALLY feel like hitting back myself. This past season I thought I would avoid the tourists by going to the store late at night. Well I went to Wally world at about 11 PM did my shopping & went to check out only to find that a family of tourists were ahead of me in line & they must have just arrived here because they bought out the store. I waited about 40 min. That is the kind of thing that drives me CRAZY in season.
I feel the same way when I'm trying to buy good merchandise and a bunch of jackalopes are ahead of me buying lottery tickets. Is there any state that is free of that horse shee-ite?

[Mouldsie]

better days.... do you like when people visit Florida?

[better days]

better days.... do you like when people visit Florida?

If it is people I know & like or Bills fans sure, I like them to visit Fla & have a GOOD time, others I don't know, I am HAPPY when they leave.

[better days]

better days.... do you like when people visit Florida?

My nephew just got married (haven't met his wife yet) & my brother-inlaw (his uncle) is letting the happy couple use his Condo for the Honeymoon. They arrive tomorrow. I'm going to grill up some of my WORLD famous Chicken (World famous because my brother-inlaw talks about it to everyone around the World) & take it over to the Condo.

I will be happy to see them, then I will be happy when they leave.

[better days]

I just thought about it, my brother-inlaws Condo should be available when the Bills play down here if booked well ahead of time. PM me if interested. The Europeans are REALLY hitting us hard lately so I doubt it is something you can get into late & is about a 1 hour drive to the Stadium.

I forgot to mention, his Condo has a HUGE swimming pool for those that don't like to swim in the Gulf, and a private beach for those that do. I'm pretty sure the pool is the biggest on Venice Island. Walking distance to Sharkeys Resturant ( the TOURIST TRAP on Venice Island) And the rates are reasonable, especially to Bills fans.

[DraftBoy]

Google Cabbage Key for one. I have eaten there a number of times, but have never stayed there overnight. A GREAT way to spend a day if you can afford it, charter a sailboat for the day, Sail to Cabbage Key, eat lunch & sail back to Ft Myers. There are a NUMBER of KEYS that are very EXCLUSIVE & can only be reached by private boat or plane. Cabbage Key is only one such place. There are also places like Marco Island where the NFL holds meetings that are accessible to all but that are only affordible to the well off for any length of time.

I am happy to see people enjoy their time in Fla, I am NOT happy when I have to WAIT in lines at resturants or stores or put up with IDIOTS on the road. It is a double edged sward & I make no money personally from tourists, although my brother inlaw does have a SMALL condo on the Island of Venice on the BEACH that he rents when he is not in the Country. PM me if you are interested in that.

Thanks for the offer, honestly I have zero against Florida (except the Gators), but living in Georgia I've been down that way so many times there isn't much left there that I want to do or see. I'm going down to Punta Cana, DR in a couple of weeks which should be fun.