Buddy Nix stepping aside

[BigZ]

I just saw a blurb from the Bills: Buddy Nix will step away from his role as GM and transition to Special Assistant.

[DraftBoy]

Many people saw this coming.

Link;
http://www.wivb.com/dpp/sports/bills_and_nfl/buddy-nix-steps-down-from-role-as-gm

[Don't Panic]

Just got the text. Welcome to the #1 spot, Doug Whaley.

[Pinkerton Security]

confirmed via V-text.


HALLLLLLLLLLLLLELLUJAHHHHHH!!!!

[Meathead]

ralph is cheap

[T-Long]

We all knew this was coming, glad to see it's official. Really like the idea of him staying on and helping Doug with whatever he needs.

The Whaley ERA has begun!

[Night Train]

Seemed like the plan all along. Give him some credit for the QB selection, then move him out.

This confirms in my little mind that Marrone and Whaley basically ran this draft. Way different than the norm.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Interesting. Sounds like the way to respect is a load road. I thought Nix wanted to see good ending (not super bowl) to his name as a GM.

[psubills62]

Hardly shocking. I hope Whaley is up to the task.

[bigbub2352]

i like this direction they are finally showin the have a plan

[DraftBoy]

Schefter confirms what many believe;

"And now Doug Whaley officially takes on the larger role for the Bills that he has been doing anyway"

[MidnightVoice]

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Buddy-Nix-transitions-out-of-GM-role-with-Bills/6123eb70-3796-48bb-9783-6dd4c6009aff

It had been raised as a possibility before, but as recently as the 2013 NFL draft, Bills GM Buddy Nix said he’d like to “see this thing through” when it came to turning the Buffalo franchise back into a contender.

“That has not changed,” said Nix when asked if he would retire following a draft in which he took a quarterback. “When it does, one of these days I will shock you and tell you then.”

Then has turned out to be now. Less than three weeks after the draft, Nix will transition from the general manager’s role to that of Special Assistant with the Bills. Nix will continue to play a significant role with the organization assisting in a variety of football related activities.

"I've made this decision to step away from the General Manager's position because I feel it is the right time," said Nix in a team statement. "By the 'right time' I mean I think we have a good young roster, an excellent head coach with a good staff, and it's time to let someone else handle these responsibilities and move forward together. Timing is the main thing, but there are other benefits as well. This job is very demanding with a 24-7 schedule of responsibilities. This new position will enable me to spend more time with my family. I appreciate the opportunity given to me by Mr. Wilson and Russ (Brandon) and I'm fortunate to step away from the job and still remain a part of the team."

At the NFL Combine this past February Nix indicated his commitment to the requirement of the job was still up to snuff, but did leave the door open to a transition in job title.

“My energy level or anything hasn’t changed,” said Nix. “Look, I’m not going to do this until I’m 100, I promise you. I’d like to know I’ll be around until then, but I’ll decide that. I’ll sit-down with Russ (Brandon) and we’ll do what needs to be done, but to put a timetable on it… I started something and I’d like to see it through.”

Nix explained where he sees the state of the club as he steps aside.

"I feel strongly that the team is on the right course for success," Nix said. "We have some excellent talent on our team and coach Marrone and his staff are doing a terrific job in leading and teaching the players we have on our roster. I was very impressed with the 24 rookies we had in this past weekend and I'm very excited about the upcoming season. I think this is going to be an exciting time for our team and our fans."

All told Nix served just over three years as the team’s general manager. His most important task when he was hired on Dec. 31st, 2009 was to re-stock the roster with improved talent and depth. A club formerly devoid of top flight defensive line talent now boasts one of the better front lines in the league.

WATCH: Buddy Nix introductory press conference

Nix is also responsible for drafting one of the most electric players in the NFL in C.J. Spiller and in the Bills most recent draft chose a future franchise quarterback prospect in EJ Manuel.

The general manager’s post was not Nix’s first job with the Bills. He had previously served for eight seasons as an area scout for Buffalo under the late former GM John Butler. Nix then returned to the Bills in 2009 to serve as a National Scout before assuming the GM post.

With Nix stepping down it stands to reason that Assistant GM Doug Whaley could be in line for the GM post after serving as the direct understudy to Nix the past three years. Nix has given indication that he hired Whaley as his eventual replacement.
“I think you’re maybe less than confident in what you do if you can’t put your replacement in place, and we did ours,” said Nix this past February. “I was on the job three months when I hired Doug and nothing’s changed with him.”

[bf1]

He caused enough harm to the franchise.

[streetkings01]

Everyone had to see this coming since bb.com were constantly showing Whaley vids alot more then usual. They definitely were transitioning the fanbase.

[Meathead]

buddys new weekly part-time schedule will be broken down as follows:

1 hour - advising the bills on football related matters
19 hours - getting marios ring back from that trecherous white woman

[streetkings01]

The new era official starts for us.......2013 has been very interesting for Bills fans.

Russ Brandon - basically takes over as owner
Doug Whaley - new GM
Doug Marrone - new HC
EJ Manuel - new face of the franchise

[OpIv37]

ralph is cheap

Ralph is cheap. This is a built-in excuse to keep Whaley and Marrone around for at least four years. "Well they were hamstrung with Buddy Nix's last draft in their first season so they should get 4 years instead of the standard 3."

[SpikedLemonade]

Is there a press conference?

[trapezeus]

happy the bills had a transition plan to replace a bad GM that essentially leaked by January this year. however, the transition plan for 94yr old owner still completely unclear

[The Toe Show]

Isn't it funny how the Bills are now the model organization and the Sabres are a dysfunctional mess?

[trapezeus]

bills are hardly a model organization. like the sabres, they've left a guy who failed to stay on the payroll.

read buddy's quote on why he left the team. he could have said that last year. "i am happy with the talent and the coach i chose!"

as long as the people at top get to keep reshuffling the chairs on their titanic and no one is held accountable, the players and coaches will take on this loser mentality in the long run.

[EDS]

Finally!

[swiper]

Buddy Nix got the Bills exactly nowhere. Was he better than Stew Barber? Yes. Tom Donahoe? Yes. Marv Levy, the GM? Yes. But that's one hell of a low bar.

[Jeff1220]

Buddy Nix got the Bills exactly nowhere. Was he better than Stew Barber? Yes. Tom Donahoe? Yes. Marv Levy, the GM? Yes. But that's one hell of a low bar.

I don't think he was better than Donahoe.

[SpikedLemonade]

I don't think he was better than Donahoe.

I agree.

Donahoe was very competent but too arrogant for Buffalo.

Nix was just over his head.

[better days]

Seemed like the plan all along. Give him some credit for the QB selection, then move him out.

This confirms in my little mind that Marrone and Whaley basically ran this draft. Way different than the norm.

From the time Nix was hired, he said the draft was a group effort, this year was no different & Whaley said it would continue to be that way.

[Pinkerton Security]

bills are hardly a model organization. like the sabres, they've left a guy who failed to stay on the payroll.

read buddy's quote on why he left the team. he could have said that last year. "i am happy with the talent and the coach i chose!"

as long as the people at top get to keep reshuffling the chairs on their titanic and no one is held accountable, the players and coaches will take on this loser mentality in the long run.

I agree to a certain extent, but this is exactly what you wanted. Why not give them a shred of credit?

[DraftBoy]

Ralph is cheap. This is a built-in excuse to keep Whaley and Marrone around for at least four years. "Well they were hamstrung with Buddy Nix's last draft in their first season so they should get 4 years instead of the standard 3."

Stop it.

[Skooby]

I like this because I needed a new picture to throw darts at when I'm mad at this Bills, Nix's was quite holed out.

[BertSquirtgum]

Ralph is cheap. This is a built-in excuse to keep Whaley and Marrone around for at least four years. "Well they were hamstrung with Buddy Nix's last draft in their first season so they should get 4 years instead of the standard 3."

You're the worst.

[TigerJ]

I can't imagine that anyone is surprised by this. It was never a matter of "if." The only question was "when?"

[OpIv37]

You're the worst.

Just saying that this move should have been done sooner. There is no reason whatsoever why Buddy should have kept his job after the coaching staff he hired got canned and the QB he signed to a huge contract got cut to the tune of $10 million in dead cap spread over 2 years.

He should have been nowhere near this draft based on his performance, so maybe there's another reason for it.....

[better days]

Just saying that this move should have been done sooner. There is no reason whatsoever why Buddy should have kept his job after the coaching staff he hired got canned and the QB he signed to a huge contract got cut to the tune of $10 million in dead cap spread over 2 years.

He should have been nowhere near this draft based on his performance, so maybe there's another reason for it.....

What does his hiring of a HC or the contract the Bills gave Fitz have to do with the drafting ability of Nix?

ANS: NOTHING.

It was absolutely the right thing to keep Nix in place for the draft.

[OpIv37]

What does his hiring of a HC or the contract the Bills gave Fitz have to do with the drafting ability of Nix?

ANS: NOTHING.

It was absolutely the right thing to keep Nix in place for the draft.
It speaks to his overall competence. And for what it's worth, Nix's drafting has been pretty terrible as well.

[better days]

It speaks to his overall competence. And for what it's worth, Nix's drafting has been pretty terrible as well.

To call the drafting by Nix terrible, speaks to your overall level of competence. TERRIBLE post.

[Pinkerton Security]

To call the drafting by Nix terrible, speaks to your overall level of competence. TERRIBLE post.

Who has he drafted for us that has panned out? Dareus was a top 3 pick, he better friggin pan out. CJ is a total stud. Byrd is damn good. Outside of that who has he netted us?

[trapezeus]

I agree to a certain extent, but this is exactly what you wanted. Why not give them a shred of credit?


because he is still involved with the team. he asked for his coach to figure out an offensive scheme with no amazing weapons (leaving the CJ spiller lack of usage out). Chan had very little talent and managed to put a lot of points up. Nix then assumed responsibility for D by trying to obtain top talent. and he didn't find one reliable long term LB. his DL while great on paper and easily assembled by any of us arm chair GMs, was woefully inadequate. he's resigned leodis, he can't get byrd in. he took aaron williams at the expense of other QB's who did well.

He largely is responsible for this turn of sucking. and his punishment is to stick around and keep helping.

The bills inability to start from scratch for real is why the are barely treading water the last 13 years. and as long as russ is the one who says, "ok, let's try something slightly different this time", you have to suspect everything they do will suck.

The bills need real football guys in the organization now, who have a feel for the modern game and are willing to be forward thinking in terms of game plan and strategy.

Marrone might be a guy from the new mold of football. but they can't be hamstrung with losers like Russ and buddy who have already shown you all you need to see.

[OpIv37]

To call the drafting by Nix terrible, speaks to your overall level of competence. TERRIBLE post.

Lmao. We're right back to your complete inability to be objective about the players/teams you like.

2010- Spiller, Troup, Carrington, Moats. The other 5 guys aren't even on the team anymore. Spiller's the only standout. Carrington is OK, Troup is useless, Moats is a STer.

2011- Dareus, A Williams, Searcy, Hairston, 5 guys not on the team anymore, including Sheppard.

Dareus had a good freshman year but was average last year. Williams flat out sucks. Searcy is an ok back up. Hairston was a good find.

2012- Gilmore, Glenn, Graham, Ron Brooks, Bradham, 4 guys not on the team. Gilmore and Glenn look good, too soon to tell on the other 3.

At best, he's one for 3 on drafts. And that's assuming last year's guys pan out, which is no guarantee.

[Pinkerton Security]

because he is still involved with the team. he asked for his coach to figure out an offensive scheme with no amazing weapons (leaving the CJ spiller lack of usage out). Chan had very little talent and managed to put a lot of points up. Nix then assumed responsibility for D by trying to obtain top talent. and he didn't find one reliable long term LB. his DL while great on paper and easily assembled by any of us arm chair GMs, was woefully inadequate. he's resigned leodis, he can't get byrd in. he took aaron williams at the expense of other QB's who did well.

He largely is responsible for this turn of sucking. and his punishment is to stick around and keep helping.

The bills inability to start from scratch for real is why the are barely treading water the last 13 years. and as long as russ is the one who says, "ok, let's try something slightly different this time", you have to suspect everything they do will suck.

The bills need real football guys in the organization now, who have a feel for the modern game and are willing to be forward thinking in terms of game plan and strategy.

Marrone might be a guy from the new mold of football. but they can't be hamstrung with losers like Russ and buddy who have already shown you all you need to see.

I understand, which is why I said I agree to an extent. I agree that he is responsible, but its also good he is stepping aside. With any luck he will be there more for his connections than anything else, because he has been around for a while.

[trapezeus]

agree with OP. Th eonly reason people don't completely agree buddy sucked at drafting was because he stopped picking the outright bust in round 1. But people hardly follow the rest of the draft. all his round 2 people have been garbage. there is always one reach in the draft that never pans out than if he just followed a draft guide booklet handed out free at radio city. and he blows 4-7 which is where you get your depth. which is where you can survive a long season including playoffs.

This team moved laterally from sucks to blows. Just cause it's different doesn't mean he made it any better.

[DraftBoy]

He should have been nowhere near this draft based on his performance, so maybe there's another reason for it.....

Come on Op, first you make a statement that has been proven false (about his proximity to draft) and then imply some mystery reason? You're better than that, Schefter and La Canfora both have already stated Whaley's title is the only thing changing, he's already been running the show since January. They just kept Nix's title to not cause a pre-draft hoopla. It's very clear Whaley made the coaching hire, Whaley ran the draft, and got his guys. So in truth the Bills did what you ask, they just did it unofficially, so will you give them credit for that?

[OpIv37]

Come on Op, first you make a statement that has been proven false (about his proximity to draft) and then imply some mystery reason? You're better than that, Schefter and La Canfora both have already stated Whaley's title is the only thing changing, he's already been running the show since January. They just kept Nix's title to not cause a pre-draft hoopla. It's very clear Whaley made the coaching hire, Whaley ran the draft, and got his guys. So in truth the Bills did what you ask, they just did it unofficially, so will you give them credit for that?

Based on what? What Schefter said?

Why would firing a GM cause a "pre draft hoopla" when everyone who follows football knows the GM has sucked, especially when you're claiming that all the insiders already knew he was only a figurehead anyway? That makes zero sense. This is Buffalo, not Dallas or NY. No one is going to make a "hoopla" out of a GM change.

[SquishDaFish]

Op your fn nuts bro. I think you just like being the negative nancy of this board.

[bigbry]

He caused enough harm to the franchise.

He did a great job...I agree!

[OpIv37]

Op your fn nuts bro. I think you just like being the negative nancy of this board.

Lmao- it's not about me. It's about the team keeping around a poorly performing GM way longer than they should have, and giving him a cushy job with the team instead of just ****-canning him. Even when they do the right thing, they take too long to do it and they do a half-assed job of it. Be mad at Russ and Ralph for running a Mickey Mouse organization. Don't get mad at me for simply pointing it out.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Isn't it funny how the Bills are now the model organization and the Sabres are a dysfunctional mess?

The model has anorexia?

[DraftBoy]

Based on what? What Schefter said?

Why would firing a GM cause a "pre draft hoopla" when everyone who follows football knows the GM has sucked, especially when you're claiming that all the insiders already knew he was only a figurehead anyway? That makes zero sense. This is Buffalo, not Dallas or NY. No one is going to make a "hoopla" out of a GM change.

Schefter and La Canfora, I did state both.

Are you kidding me people freak out about everything and anything, you're business savy enough to know why you don't announce such a move before such a large event. Can you imagine the threads?

"We're weeks away from the draft and we just fired our GM!"
"ESPN: Bills incompetency continues"

You're trying to play both sides of the coin on this one, you're better than that.

This is the NFL, not the MLL, every move causes hoopla. You're being intentionally obtuse.

[DraftBoy]

Lmao- it's not about me. It's about the team keeping around a poorly performing GM way longer than they should have, and giving him a cushy job with the team instead of just ****-canning him. Even when they do the right thing, they take too long to do it and they do a half-assed job of it. Be mad at Russ and Ralph for running a Mickey Mouse organization. Don't get mad at me for simply pointing it out.

Yes let's ignore facts now, like the fact that he was GM in basically title only for the draft. But hey why would facts apply here, you're on such a good roll lately with the *****ing about the Kolb contract that turned about to be barely anything.

[better days]

Lmao. We're right back to your complete inability to be objective about the players/teams you like.

2010- Spiller, Troup, Carrington, Moats. The other 5 guys aren't even on the team anymore. Spiller's the only standout. Carrington is OK, Troup is useless, Moats is a STer.

2011- Dareus, A Williams, Searcy, Hairston, 5 guys not on the team anymore, including Sheppard.

Dareus had a good freshman year but was average last year. Williams flat out sucks. Searcy is an ok back up. Hairston was a good find.

2012- Gilmore, Glenn, Graham, Ron Brooks, Bradham, 4 guys not on the team. Gilmore and Glenn look good, too soon to tell on the other 3.

At best, he's one for 3 on drafts. And that's assuming last year's guys pan out, which is no guarantee.

How many teams have EVERY PLAYER from EVERY DRAFT make the team?

Nix has a DAMN GOOD draft record,

[Pinkerton Security]

How many teams have EVERY PLAYER from EVERY DRAFT make the team?

Nix has a DAMN GOOD draft record,

extrapolate this STATEMENT PLEASE (see we can all capitalize words to make them seem MORE IMPORTANT! how fun!!).

[EDS]

Yes let's ignore facts now, like the fact that he was GM in basically title only for the draft. But hey why would facts apply here, you're on such a good roll lately with the *****ing about the Kolb contract that turned about to be barely anything.

Question: if Buddy was GM in title only then why were other GM's calling him about trade opportunities (as evidednced by the recorded Tampa Bay call)?

Also, would replacing a GM in January really be unusual? Aren't most GM's hired in December and January? Buddy himself was named GM on December 31st! So I don't understand your concern on that point nor do I think it would have caused any negative press. On the contrary, not publicly standing behind your new GM and letting the world know he is calling the shots suggests you don't trust him.

I am also concerned that it was Buddy that picked Whaley, but we will have to see how it goes.

[EDS]

How many teams have EVERY PLAYER from EVERY DRAFT make the team?

Nix has a DAMN GOOD draft record,

Which Buddy Nix draft picks have clearly out performed their draft slot?

Does it take a genius to draft a running pack high in the first round? No, because it is a QB driven league.

Does drafting a guy third overall only to have that guy be average suggest genius? No, particularly when last seasons defense MVP was drafted a few picks later.

Show us the picks that suggest Buddy did a good job?

[better days]

Which Buddy Nix draft picks have clearly out performed their draft slot?

Does it take a genius to draft a running pack high in the first round? No, because it is a QB driven league.

Does drafting a guy third overall only to have that guy be average suggest genius? No, particularly when last seasons defense MVP was drafted a few picks later.

Show us the picks that suggest Buddy did a good job?

If you can't see Cordy Glenn for one CLEARLY OUTPERFORMED his draft spot, you don't know anything about Football.

[EDS]

If you can't see Cordy Glenn for one CLEARLY OUTPERFORMED his draft spot, you don't know anything about Football.

So one guy in three years? I agree he performed better than expected his rookie season. Hopefully that will continue. But just recall, the Bills prior GM drafted Jarius Byrd and Andy Levitre in the second round and Steve Johnson in the seventh round, all in the same draft . So to say one second rounder made good is not a high bar.

[DraftBoy]

Question: if Buddy was GM in title only then why were other GM's calling him about trade opportunities (as evidednced by the recorded Tampa Bay call)?

Also, would replacing a GM in January really be unusual? Aren't most GM's hired in December and January? Buddy himself was named GM on December 31st! So I don't understand your concern on that point nor do I think it would have caused any negative press. On the contrary, not publicly standing behind your new GM and letting the world know he is calling the shots suggests you don't trust him.

I am also concerned that it was Buddy that picked Whaley, but we will have to see how it goes.

Do you not call the person whose title is responsible for the task you want? Trades aren't done in a phone call either, whether he called Nix isn't really important. If their was a deal to strike it would have involved Whaley as well.

Nope, but Brandon decided on a new path and didn't want to fire Nix for whatever reason. They sure as **** weren't going to do with a month to go before the draft. When did Brandon not stand behind his GM or not publicly state he was calling the shots?

Time will tell with Whaley, I like his Steelers pedigree but he'll forge his own path.

[EDS]

Do you not call the person whose title is responsible for the task you want? Trades aren't done in a phone call either, whether he called Nix isn't really important. If their was a deal to strike it would have involved Whaley as well.

Nope, but Brandon decided on a new path and didn't want to fire Nix for whatever reason. They sure as **** weren't going to do with a month to go before the draft. When did Brandon not stand behind his GM or not publicly state he was calling the shots?

Time will tell with Whaley, I like his Steelers pedigree but he'll forge his own path.

Perhaps I missed it, but where did the Bills publicly claim that Whaley made the picks?

In addition, I am sure the Nix departure was well known within the organization once they had their post-season meetings. Let's be honest - this was not something that needed to be sprung a month before the draft, but they could easily have done the transition in January like every other team does when going through a regime change.

[Captain Obvious]

Yes let's ignore facts now, like the fact that he was GM in basically title only for the draft.

Once OpIV has put his opinion out in cyberspace there is no turning back for him the facts be damned

[THATHURMANATOR]

If EJ Manuel is a Franchise QB Buddy Nix Succeeded as a GM. Plain and simple

[BertSquirtgum]

Just saying that this move should have been done sooner. There is no reason whatsoever why Buddy should have kept his job after the coaching staff he hired got canned and the QB he signed to a huge contract got cut to the tune of $10 million in dead cap spread over 2 years.

He should have been nowhere near this draft based on his performance, so maybe there's another reason for it.....

I saw the war room a few times. It looked like he wasn't anywhere near this draft. It seems they didn't fire him out of some sort of respect for the ****ty position he put the Bills in. Very dumb, imo. He should have been shown the door along with his buddy Chanly.

[DraftBoy]

Perhaps I missed it, but where did the Bills publicly claim that Whaley made the picks?

In addition, I am sure the Nix departure was well known within the organization once they had their post-season meetings. Let's be honest - this was not something that needed to be sprung a month before the draft, but they could easily have done the transition in January like every other team does when going through a regime change.


They did not, but where did they publicly claim Nix did?

Sure they could of, but they choose not to. However it was known since January that this was coming. If he wasn't making decisions as the GM, as has been indicated, then what is the difference in firing him or just letting him ride off into the sunset?

[ublinkwescore]

Lmao. We're right back to your complete inability to be objective about the players/teams you like.

2010- Spiller, Troup, Carrington, Moats. The other 5 guys aren't even on the team anymore. Spiller's the only standout. Carrington is OK, Troup is useless, Moats is a STer.

2011- Dareus, A Williams, Searcy, Hairston, 5 guys not on the team anymore, including Sheppard.

Dareus had a good freshman year but was average last year. Williams flat out sucks. Searcy is an ok back up. Hairston was a good find.

2012- Gilmore, Glenn, Graham, Ron Brooks, Bradham, 4 guys not on the team. Gilmore and Glenn look good, too soon to tell on the other 3.

At best, he's one for 3 on drafts. And that's assuming last year's guys pan out, which is no guarantee.
Has there ever been a team draft for any team in the NFL where they drafted so successfully that all 7 or 8 draft picks have actually stuck with the roster 2 years or longer? I seriously doubt it. Nix's drafting is not perfect, no one's is, but it does seem to produce at least one quality starter every year.

[ublinkwescore]

Last year's draft may very well have netted us 4 starters - maybe more after training camp... Gilmore, Glenn, Bradham, Graham, & Woods could very possibly push for a starting role in some packages.

- - - Updated - - -

Last year's draft may very well have netted us 4 starters - maybe more after training camp... Gilmore, Glenn, Bradham, Graham, & Woods could very possibly push for a starting role in some packages.

[BertSquirtgum]

Woods will be the starter in every package.

[Don't Panic]

Ralph is cheap. This is a built-in excuse to keep Whaley and Marrone around for at least four years. "Well they were hamstrung with Buddy Nix's last draft in their first season so they should get 4 years instead of the standard 3."

Already bagging the new regime. Wow. I would hate to be as depressed as you.

[EDS]

They did not, but where did they publicly claim Nix did?

Sure they could of, but they choose not to. However it was known since January that this was coming. If he wasn't making decisions as the GM, as has been indicated, then what is the difference in firing him or just letting him ride off into the sunset?

You know the answer to your question, you just don't want to believe it.

[ublinkwescore]

I meant Ron Brooks... Not woods...

[OpIv37]

How many teams have EVERY PLAYER from EVERY DRAFT make the team?

Nix has a DAMN GOOD draft record,

You're out of your mind. He's batting less than 50%. And you're forgetting that the guys he did find aren't exactly great. Spiller was a home run. Gilmore and Glenn look to be good finds. Jury's still out on Dareus. The rest are role players. That's all he has to show for 3 drafts, which is pretty ****ing pathetic.

- - - Updated - - -


Has there ever been a team draft for any team in the NFL where they drafted so successfully that all 7 or 8 draft picks have actually stuck with the roster 2 years or longer? I seriously doubt it. Nix's drafting is not perfect, no one's is, but it does seem to produce at least one quality starter every year.
Drafts have to be better than 1 quality starter a year.

[OpIv37]

Schefter and La Canfora, I did state both.

Are you kidding me people freak out about everything and anything, you're business savy enough to know why you don't announce such a move before such a large event. Can you imagine the threads?

"We're weeks away from the draft and we just fired our GM!"
"ESPN: Bills incompetency continues"

You're trying to play both sides of the coin on this one, you're better than that.

This is the NFL, not the MLL, every move causes hoopla. You're being intentionally obtuse.
I'm absolutely not trying to play both sides. I wanted Nix gone when the season ended and there are posts here to prove it. And I really wouldn't care if we fired him shortly before the draft because, as I've shown in this thread, his drafting sucks.

And when did we start giving a **** about ESPN criticizing the team?

[OpIv37]

Already bagging the new regime. Wow. I would hate to be as depressed as you.
Well, first, it's not about me. It's about the team. If you're not depressed about this team, then you either haven't been paying attention or you're living in a dream world. This team is in rough shape. I will concede that they MAY be on the right track for the future (I'll believe it when I see it), but this year has "epic disaster" written all over it.

But, if you insist on making it about me, I didn't dog the new regime. I said Russ Brandon kept Nix around to create a built-in excuse for extending the tenure of the new staff no matter how bad they may do (or at least I suspect he did- I have no way of knowing for sure, but I also don't see any other reason to keep Nix as long as they did). That's different than "dogging" the new regime.

[better days]

You're out of your mind. He's batting less than 50%. And you're forgetting that the guys he did find aren't exactly great. Spiller was a home run. Gilmore and Glenn look to be good finds. Jury's still out on Dareus. The rest are role players. That's all he has to show for 3 drafts, which is pretty ****ing pathetic.

- - - Updated - - -


Drafts have to be better than 1 quality starter a year.

You are CRAZY PUT up the drafts from TEAMS as in PLURAL that have had BETTER drafts over the last three years.

Since Nix left the Chargers, their drafting has been MUCH WORSE.

[better days]

I'm absolutely not trying to play both sides. I wanted Nix gone when the season ended and there are posts here to prove it. And I really wouldn't care if we fired him shortly before the draft because, as I've shown in this thread, his drafting sucks.

And when did we start giving a **** about ESPN criticizing the team?

On the CONTRARY, you showed how WELL he has drafted.

[better days]

I'm absolutely not trying to play both sides. I wanted Nix gone when the season ended and there are posts here to prove it. And I really wouldn't care if we fired him shortly before the draft because, as I've shown in this thread, his drafting sucks.

And when did we start giving a **** about ESPN criticizing the team?

And if NIX has sucked at drafting, you should be able to name at least 15 teams that have drafted better than the Bills over the last 3 years, NAME THEM.

[ublinkwescore]

The draft has always been, and always will be a crapshoot. Nix has actually made the crapshoot bearable again. Moreso than tom donahoe.

[DraftBoy]

I'm absolutely not trying to play both sides. I wanted Nix gone when the season ended and there are posts here to prove it. And I really wouldn't care if we fired him shortly before the draft because, as I've shown in this thread, his drafting sucks.

And when did we start giving a **** about ESPN criticizing the team?

Yes you are, its been reported he was GM in title only, so now since the reality has changed you're still *****ing because he wasn't fired or that his dismissal didn't happen fast enough despite him not making decisions? That's playing both sides.

Who said we did? But you can be damn sure Brandon does, as does the entire PR and Ticket Sales department. You're way smarter than this.

[MidnightVoice]

Buddy Nix realized he lacked energy to be Bills' GM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000169309/article/buddy-nix-realized-he-lacked-energy-to-be-bills-gm

Three weeks ago, Buffalo Bills team president Russ Brandon said "Buddy Nix is our general manager and will be for a long time."

On Monday, the 73-year-old Nix resigned.

Change of plans or change of heart?

According to a source with knowledge of the Bills' plans, it was a change of heart.

The plan originally was for Nix to be GM for a while longer. Yet after the season, Nix took a step back and realized he didn't have the energy or excitement to start a new scouting year. That's because, like all teams, the Bills have their first 2014 scouting meeting next week in Florida. Nix reportedly didn't have the same drive to attend and start a new cycle of evaluating players.

Nix will remain with the organization as a special projects official for the new GM and coach Doug Marrone. This means they might call Nix and say, "Can you take a look at our O-line?" Or "Perform this scouting project." These are jobs Nix can do from home. Nix will also attend all home games and many away games.

Everyone I talk to believes the Bills will follow through on their original plan and promote Doug Whaley to GM. But it won't happen today, tomorrow or the next day. There is a process Brandon wants to follow, which likely involves getting the scouting department in order.

[justasportsfan]

You're out of your mind. He's batting less than 50%. And you're forgetting that the guys he did find aren't exactly great. Spiller was a home run. Gilmore and Glenn look to be good finds. Jury's still out on Dareus. The rest are role players. That's all he has to show for 3 drafts, which is pretty ****ing pathetic.

- - - Updated - - -


Drafts have to be better than 1 quality starter a year.

could you show me a team thats batting more than 50 % in drafting starters. start with pats then go through Polian while with Colts. Please don't include Peyton .

[OpIv37]

On the CONTRARY, you showed how WELL he has drafted.
Really? If he drafted so well, then explain 6-10 last year.

And if you consider that to be good drafting, then you absolutely deserve to watch a losing football team.

[OpIv37]

The draft has always been, and always will be a crapshoot. Nix has actually made the crapshoot bearable again. Moreso than tom donahoe.
The draft is NOT a crapshoot. This is a huge misconception. Sure, there is an element of luck to it, but there are some teams that are consistently good at it while others are consistently bad. If it was truly a crapshoot, the results would be much less lopsided than that.

And being better than Tom Donahoe is a pretty low standard to set. We don't need to be better than the crappy Bills teams of the past 13 years or so. We need to be better than the other teams in the NFL.

[OpIv37]

You are CRAZY PUT up the drafts from TEAMS as in PLURAL that have had BETTER drafts over the last three years.

Since Nix left the Chargers, their drafting has been MUCH WORSE.
So the Chargers hired a guy worse than Nix. That says NOTHING about the quality of Nix himself. It just means there is one guy out there worse than him.

And you are missing the point by trying to make it about other teams' drafts. 3 Nix drafts got us to 6-10. We sucked at LB when he got here, we still suck at LB. We sucked at QB when he got here, we still suck at QB. We sucked at DL when he got here, now we have a very expensive paper tiger DL. We sucked at WR when we got here, we still suck at WR (pending the results of this draft- but it shouldn't have taken him to the 4th one to address it) The only position that really improved was OL, and now we lost both our starting and backup G with no replacements drafted or signed.

Once again, if you consider that good drafting, you deserve to watch a loser.

[better days]

Really? If he drafted so well, then explain 6-10 last year.

And if you consider that to be good drafting, then you absolutely deserve to watch a losing football team.

I explain it as BAD Coaching, mostly on defense.

As I said if Nix has drafted so poorly, name 15 teams that have drafted better in the last 3 years.

That would put the Bills at #16 in the mediocre range. You are not even saying he was mediocre, but TERRIBLE, so that should be easy for you to do.

From the way you have rated Nix you really should be able to name 20 to 25 teams that drafted better than Nix has with the Bills.

[OpIv37]

I explain it as BAD Coaching, mostly on defense.

As I said if Nix has drafted so poorly, name 15 teams that have drafted better in the last 3 years.

That would put the Bills at #16 in the mediocre range. You are not even saying he was mediocre, but TERRIBLE, so that should be easy for you to do.

From the way you have rated Nix you really should be able to name 20 to 25 teams that drafted better than Nix has with the Bills.
I'm don't know enough about other teams drafts and I don't have the time to research it. What I do know is that Buddy Nix didn't draft well enough for this team to win, and when it comes down to it, wins are the only numbers that matter.

But, this is typical homer mentality. Overrate the guy that's still here (or was through the draft) and the players that are here, blame everything on the guy that's been canned already. It's much better than dealing with the reality that we let a guy who sucks at drafting stick around through the draft.

Oh and btw, let's say you are right and it was coaching and not the draft. Well, guess who hired the coaching staff that got canned? BUDDY ****ING NIX.

[better days]

The draft is NOT a crapshoot. This is a huge misconception. Sure, there is an element of luck to it, but there are some teams that are consistently good at it while others are consistently bad. If it was truly a crapshoot, the results would be much less lopsided than that.

And being better than Tom Donahoe is a pretty low standard to set. We don't need to be better than the crappy Bills teams of the past 13 years or so. We need to be better than the other teams in the NFL.

OK, tell us what other teams have drafted better than the Bills under Nix.

[better days]

I'm don't know enough about other teams drafts and I don't have the time to research it. What I do know is that Buddy Nix didn't draft well enough for this team to win, and when it comes down to it, wins are the only numbers that matter.

But, this is typical homer mentality. Overrate the guy that's still here (or was through the draft) and the players that are here, blame everything on the guy that's been canned already. It's much better than dealing with the reality that we let a guy who sucks at drafting stick around through the draft.

Oh and btw, let's say you are right and it was coaching and not the draft. Well, guess who hired the coaching staff that got canned? BUDDY ****ING NIX.

So you are saying Nix is terrible at drafting without knowing how good or bad other teams have drafted. Got it.

You admit yourself that you don't have a clue how well Nix has drafted in relation to the rest of the NFL.

And which Coach would you rather Nix had hired than Chan when he did?

And the Redskins that hired Shannahan at the same time have done no better than the Bills over that time.

[OpIv37]

So you are saying Nix is terrible at drafting without knowing how good or bad other teams have drafted. Got it.

You admit yourself that you don't have a clue how well Nix has drafted in relation to the rest of the NFL.

And which Coach would you rather Nix had hired than Chan when he did?

And the Redskins that hired Shannahan at the same time have done no better than the Bills over that time.
Once again, how Nix drafted relative to other teams is not the point. He didn't address major problems this team had through three drafts and he didn't draft well enough to win.

My lack of knowledge of other teams' drafts doesn't change that. You are trying to make it about me rather than accepting the reality that Nix's drafting was pretty damn bad.

[Pinkerton Security]

OK, tell us what other teams have drafted better than the Bills under Nix.

If you're so staunchly supporting Nix, why dont YOU POST the comparison, since YOU HAVE THE FACTS to back your statements up...or is this just YOUR OWN OPINION and nothing else?

[Joe Fo Sho]

So you are saying Nix is terrible at drafting without knowing how good or bad other teams have drafted. Got it.

You admit yourself that you don't have a clue how well Nix has drafted in relation to the rest of the NFL.

Nix has drafted well enough to keep having that top 10 pick every year. Somebody had to do better than that.

[Pinkerton Security]

So you are saying Nix is terrible at drafting without knowing how good or bad other teams have drafted. Got it.

You admit yourself that you don't have a clue how well Nix has drafted in relation to the rest of the NFL.

And which Coach would you rather Nix had hired than Chan when he did?

And the Redskins that hired Shannahan at the same time have done no better than the Bills over that time.

Since you're on the point, please post any shred of evidence that you're right. I am not doubting you I am actually curious to see his amazing draft record.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

So you are saying Nix is terrible at drafting without knowing how good or bad other teams have drafted. Got it.

You admit yourself that you don't have a clue how well Nix has drafted in relation to the rest of the NFL.

And which Coach would you rather Nix had hired than Chan when he did?

And the Redskins that hired Shannahan at the same time have done no better than the Bills over that time.

wrong. they made the playoffs last year didn't they? we haven't since 1999

[better days]

wrong. they made the playoffs last year didn't they? we haven't since 1999


Yeah, my mistake. They did make the playoffs last year in a weak NFC East.

[better days]

If you're so staunchly supporting Nix, why dont YOU POST the comparison, since YOU HAVE THE FACTS to back your statements up...or is this just YOUR OWN OPINION and nothing else?

I don't see why I should need to do the work. But I will revisit this after Lindys comes out as it has the rosters of all players of all teams & how they were acquired.

[Pinkerton Security]

I don't see why I should need to do the work. But I will revisit this after Lindys comes out as it has the rosters of all players of all teams & how they were acquired.

lol maybe because you are stating that a man has an AMAZING DRAFT RECORD and no one is really agreeing with you?

[better days]

Once again, how Nix drafted relative to other teams is not the point. He didn't address major problems this team had through three drafts and he didn't draft well enough to win.

My lack of knowledge of other teams' drafts doesn't change that. You are trying to make it about me rather than accepting the reality that Nix's drafting was pretty damn bad.

You keep saying the drafting by Nix is bad so it is about you. Because Nix has drafted WELL.

SHOW US how it is bad. Nix had no failed first rnd picks as other teams have. Aside from the Bears drafting of Carimi, the Lions drafted an OT in the first rnd last year to play LT. He FAILED & was moved to RT. Nix drafted Glenn in the 2nd rnd who has played LT MUCH better.

[better days]

lol maybe because you are stating that a man has an AMAZING DRAFT RECORD and no one is really agreeing with you?

Only a few people that don't know what they are talking about are saying Nix has not drafted well. Most people agree with me. And I am not saying Nix was amazing but he was damn good. There are some teams that did a better job than the Bills but I think the Bills are at least in the top 25%.

[Historian]

I like the fact that Nix focused on the lines. I feel that's the foundation of any team, and we were a very good running team during most of his time here.

He was okay...nothing special, nothing terrible.

And at 73, he's earned the right to be semi-retired, and play with the Grandkids.

I wish him well..

[OpIv37]

You keep saying the drafting by Nix is bad so it is about you. Because Nix has drafted WELL.

SHOW US how it is bad. Nix had no failed first rnd picks as other teams have. Aside from the Bears drafting of Carimi, the Lions drafted an OT in the first rnd last year to play LT. He FAILED & was moved to RT. Nix drafted Glenn in the 2nd rnd who has played LT MUCH better.
Sorry, but once again you are making a ridiculous comparison. The Lions having one first round bust in 3 years to Nix's 0 does not mean Nix has drafted well.

I already posted Nix's draft record in this thread. I already explained how it was poor. But, you refuse to see it. You think Nix drafted well because San Diego was bad at drafting and Detroit took Camiri in the first. You're using selective, ridiculous comparisons to avoid seeing the obvious.

[OpIv37]

Only a few people that don't know what they are talking about are saying Nix has not drafted well. Most people agree with me. And I am not saying Nix was amazing but he was damn good. There are some teams that did a better job than the Bills but I think the Bills are at least in the top 25%.

You keep saying that. Where's the proof? You said San Diego drafted poorly but offered no evidence. The only actual evidence you posted was Camiri, and one bad pick by one bad team doesn't make your point.

[better days]

Sorry, but once again you are making a ridiculous comparison. The Lions having one first round bust in 3 years to Nix's 0 does not mean Nix has drafted well.

I already posted Nix's draft record in this thread. I already explained how it was poor. But, you refuse to see it. You think Nix drafted well because San Diego was bad at drafting and Detroit took Camiri in the first. You're using selective, ridiculous comparisons to avoid seeing the obvious.

As I posted, the BEARS drafted Carimi, NOT the Lions.

Learn to read. This post by you just proves you don't know what you are talking about.

And all you have shown is that Nix did draft well, not bad by listing his picks that are still on the team.

[OpIv37]

As I posted, the BEARS drafted Carimi, NOT the Lions.

Learn to read. This post by you just proves you don't know what you are talking about.

And all you have shown is that Nix did draft well, not bad by listing his picks that are still on the team.
Um, no.

Spiller is the only star Nix found in 3 drafts (and don't forget that RB is the easiest position to draft and we already had two good ones on the team when he was drafted). Gilmore and Glenn look good. Dareus should be good. Other than that, all we have are a bunch of back ups and STers. That is NOT good for 3 drafts.

[TedMock]

I do not know how Nix drafted compared to the 31 other teams because that would take more effort than I'm willing to give at the moment. I will look into that at some point though, because it is interesting. He took over in January 2009. People disagree over how much input he actually had in the draft that April. Some say a ton, some say zero. I have no idea, but I would be surprised if it wasn't on the higher end. Obviously Maybin was a huge whiff. The next three picks, Wood, Byrd, Levitre, were all good picks. I loved Shawn Nelson in the 4th round that year. His career was over in under two years due to migraine issues. I don't know how he would have turned out. I do not count injury issues against the GM or player when evaluating - unless, of course they are known issues.

Since then, I have liked some picks and disliked some picks. Overall, I think there is more talent than there was in 2009. Some of it was pretty raw when it came in and we still do not know the end result. Nix took a huge gamble on Chan Gailey and that did not work out at all. Gailey did some things well and, at times, was pretty innovative. Unfortunately, at other times he outsmarted himself with too much cutsie. Gailey hired Wanny. Wanny was, in my opinion, the biggest culprit in the teams struggles last year. I know that's saying a lot because there were all sorts of issues, but as Gailey tried too many things, Wanny did not try enough. Running base 43 on most downs, lack of stunts and biltzes, etc showed such lack of creativity that it was maddening.

If the team somehow wins 7 or more this year and, suddenly makes the playoffs in 2014, they will have done it primarily with Buddy's guys. He will deserve a lot of credit for that. If we are drafting a QB in 2015, he will deserve all the bashing we can give him.

Right now, there is still a fairly young core and I am interested to see how they grow (if they grow) this year. I am not expecting a winning season at this point, but I am hopeful that they will start to "get it." The last two drafts are the first two that I was more happy about than not in a long, long time. We'll see though, and I'm not holding my breath yet.

[better days]

Um, no.

Spiller is the only star Nix found in 3 drafts (and don't forget that RB is the easiest position to draft and we already had two good ones on the team when he was drafted). Gilmore and Glenn look good. Dareus should be good. Other than that, all we have are a bunch of back ups and STers. That is NOT good for 3 drafts.

YES it is GOOD.

[better days]

I do not know how Nix drafted compared to the 31 other teams because that would take more effort than I'm willing to give at the moment. I will look into that at some point though, because it is interesting. He took over in January 2009. People disagree over how much input he actually had in the draft that April. Some say a ton, some say zero. I have no idea, but I would be surprised if it wasn't on the higher end. Obviously Maybin was a huge whiff. The next three picks, Wood, Byrd, Levitre, were all good picks. I loved Shawn Nelson in the 4th round that year. His career was over in under two years due to migraine issues. I don't know how he would have turned out. I do not count injury issues against the GM or player when evaluating - unless, of course they are known issues.

Since then, I have liked some picks and disliked some picks. Overall, I think there is more talent than there was in 2009. Some of it was pretty raw when it came in and we still do not know the end result. Nix took a huge gamble on Chan Gailey and that did not work out at all. Gailey did some things well and, at times, was pretty innovative. Unfortunately, at other times he outsmarted himself with too much cutsie. Gailey hired Wanny. Wanny was, in my opinion, the biggest culprit in the teams struggles last year. I know that's saying a lot because there were all sorts of issues, but as Gailey tried too many things, Wanny did not try enough. Running base 43 on most downs, lack of stunts and biltzes, etc showed such lack of creativity that it was maddening.

If the team somehow wins 7 or more this year and, suddenly makes the playoffs in 2014, they will have done it primarily with Buddy's guys. He will deserve a lot of credit for that. If we are drafting a QB in 2015, he will deserve all the bashing we can give him.

Right now, there is still a fairly young core and I am interested to see how they grow (if they grow) this year. I am not expecting a winning season at this point, but I am hopeful that they will start to "get it." The last two drafts are the first two that I was more happy about than not in a long, long time. We'll see though, and I'm not holding my breath yet.

After Lindys comes out, I will adress this again as well, Lindys will make the work much less.

As Nix has said, his legacy will be decided in the next 2 or 3 years.

[OpIv37]

YES it is GOOD.
Well, like I already said, if you consider that good, then you deserve to watch a losing football team. That record is horrendous. Your problem is that you're using the reduced standard of "no first round whiffs" to evaluate the draft.

[DraftBoy]

You know the answer to your question, you just don't want to believe it.

No I don't, what's the difference?

[better days]

Well, like I already said, if you consider that good, then you deserve to watch a losing football team. That record is horrendous. Your problem is that you're using the reduced standard of "no first round whiffs" to evaluate the draft.

Well, as I said that record is GOOD. You can't field a team composed of only 3 drafts.

There is MUCH better talent on this team than when Nix was hired.

Not only did Nix not wiff on the first rnd,he drafted GOOD players in rounds after the first. For example the Bills drafted TJ Graham in the 3rd rnd. I think he will be better than Stephan Hill who the Jets drafted in the 2nd rnd.

[OpIv37]

Well, as I said that record is GOOD. You can't field a team composed of only 3 drafts.

There is MUCH better talent on this team than when Nix was hired.

Not only did Nix not wiff on the first rnd,he drafted GOOD players in rounds after the first. For example the Bills drafted TJ Graham in the 3rd rnd. I think he will be better than Stephan Hill who the Jets drafted in the 2nd rnd.

What? You think Graham will be better? You also thought Tebow would be better than Manning. You can't base your evaluation on what you think. You have to base it on results. So far, Graham has done nothing. And don't forget Russell Wilson was still on the board when we took Graham.

And Nix found a few decent players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. His record after that is absolutely horrendous. No one expects him to find Pro Bowl players in those rounds, but at least a couple guys who, you know, actually make the team would be nice.

There is literally no objectivity in your evaluation. You're basing it on what you think and on absurd comparisons to make Buddy look better.

[Joe Fo Sho]

What? You think Graham will be better? You also thought Tebow would be better than Manning. You can't base your evaluation on what you think. You have to base it on results. So far, Graham has done nothing. And don't forget Russell Wilson was still on the board when we took Graham.

And Nix found a few decent players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. His record after that is absolutely horrendous. No one expects him to find Pro Bowl players in those rounds, but at least a couple guys who, you know, actually make the team would be nice.

There is literally no objectivity in your evaluation. You're basing it on what you think and on absurd comparisons to make Buddy look better.

Yeah, but his use of the shift key is spot on.

[EDS]

No I don't, what's the difference?

Don't be obtuse. If the Bills thought Whaley was ready they would have proclaimed him as the guy making the final determination. They have not done that to my knowledge - but please correct me if I am wrong.

[trapezeus]

could you show me a team thats batting more than 50 % in drafting starters. start with pats then go through Polian while with Colts. Please don't include Peyton .

who is asking for 50% starters. you want picks in round 1-2 being significant contributors, rounds 3-6 being able to be ST and.or good depth to push previous years 3-6 to play better. round 7 is a crapshoot.

The bills don't have depth under buddy. how many lb's have come in and been barely servicable? within a 4 month span he found out tank carder sucked.

for the most part, pre-buddy were were missing bad on round 1 but getting some servicable mid round talent. but with no superstars, we weren't anything but a middling team.

and now he's gotten a couple decent first round pick ups, but he missed on the depth. and the team went backwards.

to me, he wasn't very good and citing that maybe we got 4 starters from last year's draft is premature. when you give a 1 or 2 year look back, the drafts look week. last year's class always looks good because you try to force people into some roles. especially on a team with a lack of talent in certain areas.

[DraftBoy]

Don't be obtuse. If the Bills thought Whaley was ready they would have proclaimed him as the guy making the final determination. They have not done that to my knowledge - but please correct me if I am wrong.

I'm truly not, I really didn't know what you were getting at.

So you're saying the Schefter and La Canfora reports are incorrect?

[better days]

What? You think Graham will be better? You also thought Tebow would be better than Manning. You can't base your evaluation on what you think. You have to base it on results. So far, Graham has done nothing. And don't forget Russell Wilson was still on the board when we took Graham.

And Nix found a few decent players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. His record after that is absolutely horrendous. No one expects him to find Pro Bowl players in those rounds, but at least a couple guys who, you know, actually make the team would be nice.

There is literally no objectivity in your evaluation. You're basing it on what you think and on absurd comparisons to make Buddy look better.

Well, last year:

Hill: 252 Yds

Graham: 322 Yds

RESULTS!

[better days]

who is asking for 50% starters. you want picks in round 1-2 being significant contributors, rounds 3-6 being able to be ST and.or good depth to push previous years 3-6 to play better. round 7 is a crapshoot.

The bills don't have depth under buddy. how many lb's have come in and been barely servicable? within a 4 month span he found out tank carder sucked.

for the most part, pre-buddy were were missing bad on round 1 but getting some servicable mid round talent. but with no superstars, we weren't anything but a middling team.

and now he's gotten a couple decent first round pick ups, but he missed on the depth. and the team went backwards.

to me, he wasn't very good and citing that maybe we got 4 starters from last year's draft is premature. when you give a 1 or 2 year look back, the drafts look week. last year's class always looks good because you try to force people into some roles. especially on a team with a lack of talent in certain areas.

When Nix was hired, the Bills lacked talent in just about every area.

The talent is MUCH better today, thanks to Nix & the scouting staff he put together.

[OpIv37]

Well, last year:

Hill: 252 Yds

Graham: 322 Yds

RESULTS!
Once again, you found ONE Nix draft pick who did better than ONE guy picked before him. That doesn't make Nix's pick good. It just means there was one other pick that was worse. You are simply cherry-picking examples and ignoring all Nix's whiffs.

[OpIv37]

When Nix was hired, the Bills lacked talent in just about every area.

The talent is MUCH better today, thanks to Nix & the scouting staff he put together.

Really?

If we have any talent at QB or WR, it came as a result of THIS draft, so that means that the best case scenario is that it took Nix 4 drafts to fix it.

We have no talent at all at LB. We have no talent at CB behind Gilmore. The only talent we have at S is Byrd and he's holding out. We have talent at RB, but we had talent at RB when Nix was hired. S/T has been on a downward spiral. On paper we have talent on the DL but the results don't show on the field.

The only area where Nix actually added talent was the OL and even that took a hit this year.

Your bar for "talent" is very low.

[psubills62]

Personally, I think Nix had his share of misses. A few too many for my tastes. However, I feel like the talent on this team is better than when he first took over. We're still not where we need to be, but there are tools for a good coach to work with here.

I wish him well.

And better days...I really think you might benefit from relaxing a bit.

[trapezeus]

When Nix was hired, the Bills lacked talent in just about every area.

The talent is MUCH better today, thanks to Nix & the scouting staff he put together.


yet my point was that the team had more servicable players to stay in the middle of the pack despite a ton of injuries.

the buddy years have had leass injuries so the starters have by and large been out there. and they went backwards recordwise.

frankly i found the chan years more enjoyable than the dick jauron years because the team put up points and on occassion made the right in game decisions. that being said, they ended up worse than the jauron years. so if his talent evaluation was so good uniformly getting starters in the first part, and solid depth in the back end, why did the team perform worse?

you base a lot of your arguments on what you think is going to happen. and for the most part there is no evidence or likelihood that the team is going to get better. Just like your arguements about tebow. "give him or the team a chance, and you'll see!!!" i just don't think this team is worth getting excited about until they make it exciting. and if i had to bet on it, next year isn't going ot be that year.

[better days]

yet my point was that the team had more servicable players to stay in the middle of the pack despite a ton of injuries.

the buddy years have had leass injuries so the starters have by and large been out there. and they went backwards recordwise.

frankly i found the chan years more enjoyable than the dick jauron years because the team put up points and on occassion made the right in game decisions. that being said, they ended up worse than the jauron years. so if his talent evaluation was so good uniformly getting starters in the first part, and solid depth in the back end, why did the team perform worse?

you base a lot of your arguments on what you think is going to happen. and for the most part there is no evidence or likelihood that the team is going to get better. Just like your arguements about tebow. "give him or the team a chance, and you'll see!!!" i just don't think this team is worth getting excited about until they make it exciting. and if i had to bet on it, next year isn't going ot be that year.

Well, you may be right. Time will tell. I put a huge part of last years blame on Wannestedt & how could anyone not?

In todays NFL he never blitzed or put pressure on the QB.

I like Pettine's philosophy, if you can't get to the QB with 4, bring 5, if you can't get there with 5 bring 6, if you can't get there with 6, drop 8.

[justasportsfan]

who is asking for 50% starters. you want picks in round 1-2 being significant contributors, rounds 3-6 being able to be ST and.or good depth to push previous years 3-6 to play better. round 7 is a crapshoot.

The bills don't have depth under buddy. how many lb's have come in and been barely servicable? within a 4 month span he found out tank carder sucked.

for the most part, pre-buddy were were missing bad on round 1 but getting some servicable mid round talent. but with no superstars, we weren't anything but a middling team.

and now he's gotten a couple decent first round pick ups, but he missed on the depth. and the team went backwards.

to me, he wasn't very good and citing that maybe we got 4 starters from last year's draft is premature. when you give a 1 or 2 year look back, the drafts look week. last year's class always looks good because you try to force people into some roles. especially on a team with a lack of talent in certain areas.
Don't look at me. OP was.the one saying Nix is batting less than 50% and has been pathetic the last 3 years. I know for a fact that the pats haven't been good at drafting as well yet they win. Carder ? Pats drafted busts higher than where we took Carder.look at their history. Some of them don't even play anymore. That rb in the first round comes to mind. Were they geniuses for taking Brady when they did or just lucky? I don't have a problem with Kids draft. His mistake was hiring Chan and listening to him. Even bringing in a guy like Mario didn't work so draft picks mean nothing if you have the wrong Coach.

[better days]

Once again, you found ONE Nix draft pick who did better than ONE guy picked before him. That doesn't make Nix's pick good. It just means there was one other pick that was worse. You are simply cherry-picking examples and ignoring all Nix's whiffs.

Time will tell if it was good or not. And I'm not saying Nix was the best GM in the World, just MUCH better than you give him credit for.

[OpIv37]

Time will tell if it was good or not. And I'm not saying Nix was the best GM in the World, just MUCH better than you give him credit for.

3 consecutive losing seasons. Hired a coaching staff that couldn't even match Jauron's mediocrity. Signed a QB to a big contract only to cut him a season and a half later, to the tune of $10 million in dead cap. Spent big money on a paper tiger DL. Let Levitre walk and still hasn't locked down Byrd or made a splash in FA, or replaced the two OG's we lost. Still no talent at LB. Still no talent at CB behind Gilmore. If we have talent at QB or WR, it will be as a result of this draft- 4 full off-seasons after he was hired. Completely botched the way the K and P situations were handled last year.

Yeah, he sure does deserve more credit :rolleyes:

[better days]

3 consecutive losing seasons. Hired a coaching staff that couldn't even match Jauron's mediocrity. Signed a QB to a big contract only to cut him a season and a half later, to the tune of $10 million in dead cap. Spent big money on a paper tiger DL. Let Levitre walk and still hasn't locked down Byrd or made a splash in FA, or replaced the two OG's we lost. Still no talent at LB. Still no talent at CB behind Gilmore. If we have talent at QB or WR, it will be as a result of this draft- 4 full off-seasons after he was hired. Completely botched the way the K and P situations were handled last year.

Yeah, he sure does deserve more credit :rolleyes:


As I said before, when Nix was hired the cupboard was BARE. So what if it took him 4 years to fill it. If the Bills do become successful in the next couple years Nix will be a big reason for that success.

And how was Nix resopnsible for the K & P situation last year? That was COACHING decisions, & yes I know Nix hired Gailey, & as I have asked before who would you have had him hire instead?

[OpIv37]

As I said before, when Nix was hired the cupboard was BARE. So what if it took him 4 years to fill it. If the Bills do become successful in the next couple years Nix will be a big reason for that success.

And how was Nix resopnsible for the K & P situation last year? That was COACHING decisions, & yes I know Nix hired Gailey, & as I have asked before who would you have had him hire instead?

Once again, the cupboard's still bare- just slightly less bare than when Nix got here. Pretty pathetic for nearly 4 full off-seasons.

And once again, it's not about me. Nix is a football professional who makes a 7 figure salary to find the right coach. I'm just a casual fan. It's not about who I would have hired instead. It's about Nix doing his job and finding the right coach. Me not having the time to go back and look at who was available 3 years ago and come up with someone better does NOT get Nix off the hook.

And as far as K and P- well, they were drafted and signed, and when Moorman got cut, Powell had to be re-signed. And if you don't think the GM had some say in keeping two place-kickers, you are kidding yourself. And even if you put that back on the coaches, well, Nix picked the coaches, and it still doesn't get him off the hook for the rest of the crap.

[better days]

Once again, the cupboard's still bare- just slightly less bare than when Nix got here. Pretty pathetic for nearly 4 full off-seasons.

And once again, it's not about me. Nix is a football professional who makes a 7 figure salary to find the right coach. I'm just a casual fan. It's not about who I would have hired instead. It's about Nix doing his job and finding the right coach. Me not having the time to go back and look at who was available 3 years ago and come up with someone better does NOT get Nix off the hook.

And as far as K and P- well, they were drafted and signed, and when Moorman got cut, Powell had to be re-signed. And if you don't think the GM had some say in keeping two place-kickers, you are kidding yourself. And even if you put that back on the coaches, well, Nix picked the coaches, and it still doesn't get him off the hook for the rest of the crap.

Who has him on the hook? You? I doubt he cares what you think & in any event he is now semi-retired. Like I said if the Bills become successful in the next couple years Nix will get much of the credit for that.....................from MOST people.

[OpIv37]

Who has him on the hook? You? I doubt he cares what you think & in any event he is now semi-retired. Like I said if the Bills become successful in the next couple year Nix will get much of the credit for that.....................from MOST people.

Really? Well Draftboy claims that Nix was only a figurehead and Whaley ran this draft. So, if we have any success, it's going to be on Whaley. You saw what Nix gave us the last three years.

Seriously, is this bizarro world? Are you REALLY defending a GM whose best record in 3 seasons was 6-10? It's impossible to take you seriously because you have this pathological need to defend everyone associated with the team, no matter how poorly they perform.

Buddy Nix is one of the major reasons for the horrendous performance of this team over the last three years. There is no logical reason why anyone who wants this team to win to be defending him. But, you don't want to see the reality that the Bills are going to struggle this season. And the only way to do that is to convince yourself that there is "talent" on the roster now because of Nix. I don't want the team to struggle this year either, but reality is what it is. Accept it now, or accept it when it kicks you in the nuts on Sunday afternoons starting in September just like the previous 13 years or so.

[Captain Obvious]

& yes I know Nix hired Gailey, & as I have asked before who would you have had him hire instead?
He never said who he wanted as HC in 2009 just as he didn't offer any names when Marrone was hired. He either isn't aware of who potential coaching candidates are or hes too afraid too offer a opinion in case he ends up being wrong

[Captain Obvious]

I'm just a casual fan.

Someone like yourself who destroys stuff in his basement and has bruises and welts on their knuckles do to anger and rage over what happens in a football game is more than just a "casual" fan

[OpIv37]

He never said who he wanted as HC in 2009 just as he didn't offer any names when Marrone was hired. He either isn't aware of who potential coaching candidates are or hes too afraid too offer a opinion in case he ends up being wrong

Once again, it's not about me.

It's pathetic that you guys are trying to hold me to the same standard as the people running the team- you know, the ones who make the big bucks and can actually affect the outcome. "Well, it must have been a good coaching hire because Op couldn't come up with a better one." Please.

Stop making it about me and stop hiding from reality and stop being afraid to criticize people associated with the team even when they deliver piss-poor results.

[better days]

Really? Well Draftboy claims that Nix was only a figurehead and Whaley ran this draft. So, if we have any success, it's going to be on Whaley. You saw what Nix gave us the last three years.

Seriously, is this bizarro world? Are you REALLY defending a GM whose best record in 3 seasons was 6-10? It's impossible to take you seriously because you have this pathological need to defend everyone associated with the team, no matter how poorly they perform.

Buddy Nix is one of the major reasons for the horrendous performance of this team over the last three years. There is no logical reason why anyone who wants this team to win to be defending him. But, you don't want to see the reality that the Bills are going to struggle this season. And the only way to do that is to convince yourself that there is "talent" on the roster now because of Nix. I don't want the team to struggle this year either, but reality is what it is. Accept it now, or accept it when it kicks you in the nuts on Sunday afternoons starting in September just like the previous 13 years or so.

So now you are a believer in draftboy? Nix said from the time he was hired that the draft was a TEAM effort, & this draft was no different IMO. Also that is the reason Nix stepped down at this time. No point in him putting time into the next draft & quitting just before the draft.

There is more talent than you either acknowledge or are willing to admit on the Bills now.

LB for example is a group that will play MUCH better than you think.

[OpIv37]

So now you are a believer in draftboy? Nix said from the time he was hired that the draft was a TEAM effort, & this draft was no different IMO. Also that is the reason Nix stepped down at this time. No point in him putting time into the next draft & quitting just before the draft.

There is more talent than you either acknowledge or are willing to admit on the Bills now.

LB for example is a group that will play MUCH better than you think.

Lmao. There is no talent at LB on this team. Kiko is the only chance and he can't do it alone. It's statements like that which will keep you from ever having credibility.

And no, I still don't buy what Draftboy said about Nix. I'm just pointing out that many people believe Nix wasn't a big part of this draft, so if the team does succeed, he won't get the credit for it that you think he will.

[better days]

Lmao. There is no talent at LB on this team. Kiko is the only chance and he can't do it alone. It's statements like that which will keep you from ever having credibility.

And no, I still don't buy what Draftboy said about Nix. I'm just pointing out that many people believe Nix wasn't a big part of this draft, so if the team does succeed, he won't get the credit for it that you think he will.

The people that will refuse to give Nix credit if the Bills do well are also like you, the people that will give him the blame if they don't. I don't really care. No skin off my nose.

As far as the LB group, I expect Lawson & Bradham to play well in addition to Kiko. After that who knows? Maybe Hughes steps up or Moats or Pough or Dotwin. But as a GROUP, I expect MUCH better play from the LB group & the entire defense than last year.

[OpIv37]

The people that will refuse to give Nix credit if the Bills do well are also like you, the people that will give him the blame if they don't. I don't really care. No skin off my nose.

As far as the LB group, I expect Lawson & Bradham to play well in addition to Kiko. After that who knows? Maybe Hughes steps up or Moats or Pough or Dotwin. But as a GROUP, I expect MUCH better play from the LB group & the entire defense than last year.
You expect that based on nothing. Bradham is Ok. Lawson is better than what we had but not great. Kiko, like all rookies, is a huge ? until he proves himself. We are razor thin at CB. Our star S may not even play and we're pretty average behind him. The DL is a paper tiger.

And, it's a new system for all the players involved.

It's completely illogical to expect the D to play better with minimal talent additions while trying to learn a new system.

[better days]

You expect that based on nothing. Bradham is Ok. Lawson is better than what we had but not great. Kiko, like all rookies, is a huge ? until he proves himself. We are razor thin at CB. Our star S may not even play and we're pretty average behind him. The DL is a paper tiger.

And, it's a new system for all the players involved.

It's completely illogical to expect the D to play better with minimal talent additions while trying to learn a new system.

That is your OPINION. My opinion is I EXPECT this defense to play MUCH better than last year just because the players are all buying into it & are excited to play it.

This defense will be aggressive & unpredictable which should be much more fun to watch & I think be much more successful than the BLAND no pressure defense of Wanny.

[OpIv37]

That is your OPINION. My opinion is I EXPECT this defense to play MUCH better than last year just because the players are all buying into it & are excited to play it.

This defense will be aggressive & unpredictable which should be much more fun to watch & I think be much more successful than the BLAND no pressure defense of Wanny.

My opinion is based on what the players have done in the past and the fact that pretty much every team struggled when learning a new system- ie, logic.

Your opinion is based on abstract concepts like "belief" and "excitement" ie, what you hope will happen and nothing more.

Not all opinions are equal. Some see the facts. Some see what they want to see.

[BillsFever21]

My opinion is based on what the players have done in the past and the fact that pretty much every team struggled when learning a new system- ie, logic.

Your opinion is based on abstract concepts like "belief" and "excitement" ie, what you hope will happen and nothing more.

Not all opinions are equal. Some see the facts. Some see what they want to see.

Our defense will be better this season namely because you can't get any worse then the most pathetic defense in the history of the franchise.

The same guys saying our defense would be better and at least a Top 15 defense last year because we had a new DC in Wanny are the same people that keep using the same reasons every season. Then of course after it was even worse their reason was because of Wanny after he was fired. Even though earlier in the year he was going to be the reason we were better.

We will be better because we can't go anywhere but up. These same guys are probably expecting a dominant defense this season though. If they are in the Top 15-20 that can help keep us in games that will be a success.

[Mace]

Looks real funny to me that Nix handed over to Whaley without handing over to Whaley. Smells like Brandon, the 6 year old who thinks if he puts on dad's hat he can drive dad's car and do dad's job with dad's powertools, to get out there for the photo ops and pretend to be George Halas until it goes bad when he'll disappear again just like he did last time because it's not fun anymore and people will be mean to him, despite the fact he has the best desk in the building.

[better days]

My opinion is based on what the players have done in the past and the fact that pretty much every team struggled when learning a new system- ie, logic.

Your opinion is based on abstract concepts like "belief" and "excitement" ie, what you hope will happen and nothing more.

Not all opinions are equal. Some see the facts. Some see what they want to see.

Well, except you don't have a clue as to what players have done in the past because you don't have the time to find out LOL.

The ONLY facts you have ever posted on this board is the Bills record. It is your agrument for every discussion about the Bills.

Your opinion is worthless.

[Mace]

The ONLY facts you have ever posted on this board is the Bills record. It is your agrument for every discussion about the Bills.. Without taking sides, the record is kind of a good argument though.

[better days]

Without taking sides, the record is kind of a good argument though.

In many cases I agree, but you can't blame every single person ever associated with the Bills for that record.

[OpIv37]

Well, except you don't have a clue as to what players have done in the past because you don't have the time to find out LOL.

The ONLY facts you have ever posted on this board is the Bills record. It is your agrument for every discussion about the Bills.

Your opinion is worthless.
That's absolute BS. You asked for what Buddy did wrong- I showed you- both in the draft and overall. My arguments are based on how players have done in the past and the changes that the team has made. Win-loss is part of it but I've given you MUCH more than that.

Oh, and if my opinion is so worthless, how is it that I'm right a hell of a lot more than I'm wrong?

I can't believe the guy who said Tebow would be better than Manning is telling other people that their opinions are worthless.

[BillsFever21]

In many cases I agree, but you can't blame every single person ever associated with the Bills for that record.

If you're talking about the GM then he is one of the main reasons to blame for having a bad record. He hires the coaches and front office personnel, drafts the players, brings in the FA's, decides on who is being released and has the final say in any matter in an attempt to build a team. When they are unable to do that then who would be at fault for it? The equipment manager's fault?

[BillsFever21]

That's absolute BS. You asked for what Buddy did wrong- I showed you- both in the draft and overall. My arguments are based on how players have done in the past and the changes that the team has made. Win-loss is part of it but I've given you MUCH more than that.

Oh, and if my opinion is so worthless, how is it that I'm right a hell of a lot more than I'm wrong?

I can't believe the guy who said Tebow would be better than Manning is telling other people that their opinions are worthless.

It's not worth your time for this. If we still suck in a couple years then he will probably be blaming Buddy Nix, etc, even though he defended them as doing a good job the entire time they were here.

If he did say Tebow would be better then Manning then that just shows how delusional he really is and it's not worth the time. Anybody who would think that is obviously speaking out of fandom and what they WANT to be true and not what the truth and evidence actually is. Tebow better then Manning that is a good one.

[better days]

That's absolute BS. You asked for what Buddy did wrong- I showed you- both in the draft and overall. My arguments are based on how players have done in the past and the changes that the team has made. Win-loss is part of it but I've given you MUCH more than that.

Oh, and if my opinion is so worthless, how is it that I'm right a hell of a lot more than I'm wrong?

I can't believe the guy who said Tebow would be better than Manning is telling other people that their opinions are worthless.

I said Tebow may be better than Manning after the injury Mannning suffered. I was WRONG. The Jets torpedoed Tebows career.

You Have never posted any facts except the won loss record of the Bills.

You say how they played in the past, as if it was fact when you never show how they played in the past.

AND, The 49ers did VERY WELL after Changing systems as did the Texans & the Jets.

[BillsFever21]

I said Tebow may be better than Manning after the injury Mannning suffered. I was WRONG. The Jets torpedoed Tebows career.

You Have never posted any facts except the won loss record of the Bills.

You say how they played in the past, as if it was fact when you never show how they played in the past.

AND, The 49ers did VERY WELL after Changing systems as did the Texans & the Jets.

Tim Tebow torpedoed Tim Tebow's career and not the Jets. Nobody besides the Jets was willing to give up anymore then a 4th round draft pick last year for him in the first place.

It's not like the Jets severed one of his limbs or something which rendered him useless. He didn't get a shot to play QB because he is terrible. Obviously the rest of the NFL thinks the same thing since nobody even wants him on their roster. Hey the AFL wants him though.

[OpIv37]

I said Tebow may be better than Manning after the injury Mannning suffered. I was WRONG. The Jets torpedoed Tebows career.

You Have never posted any facts except the won loss record of the Bills.

You say how they played in the past, as if it was fact when you never show how they played in the past.

AND, The 49ers did VERY WELL after Changing systems as did the Texans & the Jets.
Saying I've never posted any facts other than w-l record is just BS. I posted other facts several times in this thread alone.

It's yet another case of you seeing what you want to see after you got called out for that nonsense opinion.

[better days]

Saying I've never posted any facts other than w-l record is just BS. I posted other facts several times in this thread alone.

It's yet another case of you seeing what you want to see after you got called out for that nonsense opinion.

This post is just more of your BS nonsense. I just proved you were WRONG when you said "the fact that pretty much every team struggled when learning a new system."

You tried to pass that off as fact, but it is just more BS.

The 49ers, Texans & Jets all did WELL after changing systems.

In 2011 the 49ers went 13-3, & won the NFC West with a New HC, NEW SYSTEM & a number of new players.

Also in 2011 under New DC Wade Phillips & a NEW SYSTEM, the Texans defense made a HUGE IMPROVEMENT, allowing the 4th fewest points in the league after they allowed the 4th most points in 2010.

In 2010, Rex Ryan Coached the Jets with a NEW System to have the #1 ranked defense & took them to the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game.

These are FACTS, not the the BS drivel you post.

[better days]

Tim Tebow torpedoed Tim Tebow's career and not the Jets. Nobody besides the Jets was willing to give up anymore then a 4th round draft pick last year for him in the first place.

It's not like the Jets severed one of his limbs or something which rendered him useless. He didn't get a shot to play QB because he is terrible. Obviously the rest of the NFL thinks the same thing since nobody even wants him on their roster. Hey the AFL wants him though.

First, the Jets allowed ESPN to turn the entire year into a CIRCUS. Then they hardly used him & when they did, they did not use him properly. Tebow completed 6 of the 8 passes he was allowed to throw.

Of course no team wants to touch him now, because NOBODY wants the Circus ESPN will make it again if he signed with another team.

[OpIv37]

This post is just more of your BS nonsense. I just proved you were WRONG when you said "the fact that pretty much every team struggled when learning a new system."

You tried to pass that off as fact, but it is just more BS.

The 49ers, Texans & Jets all did WELL after changing systems.

In 2011 the 49ers went 13-3, & won the NFC West with a New HC, NEW SYSTEM & a number of new players.

Also in 2011 under New DC Wade Phillips & a NEW SYSTEM, the Texans defense made a HUGE IMPROVEMENT, allowing the 4th fewest points in the league after they allowed the 4th most points in 2010.

In 2010, Rex Ryan Coached the Jets with a NEW System to have the #1 ranked defense & took them to the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game.

These are FACTS, not the the BS drivel you post.

They're the exception to prove the rule. You are cherry-picking examples in a vain attempt to make your point. I guess I shouldn't be surprised- it's your MO.

If you look at the overall numbers, teams changing systems struggle. Funny how you left the 2012 Bills under Wanny out of your examples.... Oh wait, that fact doesn't count because it proves you wrong.

[better days]

They're the exception to prove the rule. You are cherry-picking examples in a vain attempt to make your point. I guess I shouldn't be surprised- it's your MO.

If you look at the overall numbers, teams changing systems struggle. Funny how you left the 2012 Bills under Wanny out of your examples.... Oh wait, that fact doesn't count because it proves you wrong.

More of your BS. ONE is an exception, THREE is the RULE. You were proved WRONG PERIOD.

And the Bills did not have a problem adjusting to Wanny defense. players were not out of position, they all knew their assignments. They did not struggle to learn the system.

The fact is it is just an old system in a new NFL & it does not work anymore.

And you cite ONE team & say look at the overall numbers LOL. Name at least three more teams that changed systems in the last 3 years that struggled.

[OpIv37]

More of your BS. ONE is an exception, THREE is the RULE. You were proved WRONG PERIOD.

And the Bills did not have a problem adjusting to Wanny defense. players were not out of position, they all knew their assignments. They did not struggle to learn the system.

The fact is it is just an old system in a new NFL & it does not work anymore.

And you cite ONE team & say look at the overall numbers LOL. Name at least three more teams that changed systems in the last 3 years that struggled.

Lmao if you think it's only 1 team that struggled while changing systems. The overwhelming majority of teams struggle under a system change.

Yet again, you are making it about me. Yet again, you are ignoring the mountains of evidence against what you are saying in favor of one or two cherry-picked examples in favor.

As usual, time will prove me right. Just wait and see.

[better days]

Lmao if you think it's only 1 team that struggled while changing systems. The overwhelming majority of teams struggle under a system change.

Yet again, you are making it about me. Yet again, you are ignoring the mountains of evidence against what you are saying in favor of one or two cherry-picked examples in favor.

As usual, time will prove me right. Just wait and see.


You keep saying the same thing about the overwhelming majority of teams, without naming any of these supposed teams that struggled. LMAO, mountains of evidence yet you can not name three teams that struggled learning a new system.

I named THREE teams that did GREAT from the gitgo with a NEW system, not one or two. Get the FACTS CORRECT.

[OpIv37]

You keep saying the same thing about the overwhelming majority of teams, without naming any of these supposed teams that struggled. LMAO, mountains of evidence yet you can not name three teams that struggled learning a new system.

I named THREE teams that did GREAT from the gitgo with a NEW system, not one or two. Get the FACTS CORRECT.

I already named one- the 2012 Bills on D. You want more examples? The 2010 Bills on both O and D. The 2007 Bills when Jauron first took over on both O and D. The 2004 Bills got off to an 0-4 start before a decent winning streak to end the season. The 2001 Bills struggled under Williams on both O and D to the tune of 3-13.

So there's more than 3 examples from JUST this team from JUST the past 12 years. Teams struggle when they change systems far more often than not. You are cherry picking the exceptions in a desperate and futile attempt to prove the rule.

[better days]

Lmao if you think it's only 1 team that struggled while changing systems. The overwhelming majority of teams struggle under a system change.

Yet again, you are making it about me. Yet again, you are ignoring the mountains of evidence against what you are saying in favor of one or two cherry-picked examples in favor.

As usual, time will prove me right. Just wait and see.

I just thought of 3 more teams that did NOT struggle with a new system Op.

In 2012 the Colts with a NEW HC, NEW SYSTEM & many new players went 11-5 & made the playoffs as a wildcard after going 2-14 in 2011.

In 2010 New HC Pete Carroll with a NEW SYSTEM led the Seahawks to a 7-9 record & first place in the NFC West. While 7-9 does not sound great, it was an IMPROVEMENT on the 5 Wins from the year before.

In 2011 the Broncos with NEW HC & NEW SYSTEM & Tim Tebow went 8-8 & made the playoffs as a wildcard, beating the Steelers in the Wildcard game. That was afer only 4 wins the year before.


That makes SIX teams that IMPROVED with a new system in the last few years.

[OpIv37]

I just thought of 3 more teams that did NOT struggle with a new system Op.

In 2012 the Colts with a NEW HC, NEW SYSTEM & many new players went 11-5 & made the playoffs as a wildcard after going 2-14 in 2011.

In 2010 New HC Pete Carroll with a NEW SYSTEM led the Seahawks to a 7-9 record & first place in the NFC West. While 7-9 does not sound great, it was an IMPROVEMENT on the 5 Wins from the year before.

In 2011 the Broncos with NEW HC & NEW SYSTEM & Tim Tebow went 8-8 & made the playoffs as a wildcard, beating the Steelers in the Wildcard game. That was afer only 4 wins the year before.


That makes SIX teams that IMPROVED with a new system in the last few years.

Still cherry-picking. The Colts were a team built for a good QB. They struggled without Manning. They picked right up where they left off when Luck came in. The Seahawks at 7-9? Give me a ****ing break. 7-9 in their garbage division is not impressive.

[better days]

I already named one- the 2012 Bills on D. You want more examples? The 2010 Bills on both O and D. The 2007 Bills when Jauron first took over on both O and D. The 2004 Bills got off to an 0-4 start before a decent winning streak to end the season. The 2001 Bills struggled under Williams on both O and D to the tune of 3-13.

So there's more than 3 examples from JUST this team from JUST the past 12 years. Teams struggle when they change systems far more often than not. You are cherry picking the exceptions in a desperate and futile attempt to prove the rule.

You are the one doing the CHERRY picking Op. You named ONLY the Bills. & their Won Loss record which is the ONLY team you know anyting at all about.

I named SIX teams in the last few years that IMPROVED with a NEW Coach & NEW System. That is FAR from Cherry picking.

[better days]

Still cherry-picking. The Colts were a team built for a good QB. They struggled without Manning. They picked right up where they left off when Luck came in. The Seahawks at 7-9? Give me a ****ing break. 7-9 in their garbage division is not impressive.

The Colts CHANGED the HC & he CHANGED the defense from the Tampa 2 to a 3-4. NEW SYSTEM.

7-9 may not be impressive, but it was BETTER than the year before & the Seahawks did NOT struggle with a NEW SYSTEM.

SIX teams over only a few years Op ADMIT you were WRONG.

[OpIv37]

The Colts CHANGED the HC & he CHANGED the defense from the Tampa 2 to a 3-4. NEW SYSTEM.

7-9 may not be impressive, but it was BETTER than the year before & the Seahawks did NOT struggle with a NEW SYSTEM.

SIX teams over only a few years Op ADMIT you were WRONG.

Except that I'm not. Once again, you are making it about me. Teams struggle when they change systems. 6 examples (and really only 4 good ones) over the last 3 or 4 years are still the exception to the rule no matter how much you try to make this about me. You continue to only see what you want to see.

[better days]

Except that I'm not. Once again, you are making it about me. Teams struggle when they change systems. 6 examples (and really only 4 good ones) over the last 3 or 4 years are still the exception to the rule no matter how much you try to make this about me. You continue to only see what you want to see.

It is about you Op & your refusal to ADMIT when you are WRONG even after it is clearly pointed out to you that you are.

You are the one with myopic vision that only sees what he wants.

I named SIX teams that IMPROVED with a NEW SYSTEM.

You did not name a single team that struggled with a new system. The Bills did NOT struggle to learn the defense Wanny ran. The reason the defense struggled is the defense was so SIMPLE no offense struggled with it either.

At least I am man enough to admit when I am wrong as I did in this thread when I said I was wrong about Tebow.

You NEVER admit you are wrong , which you are quite often.

[OpIv37]

It is about you Op & your refusal to ADMIT when you are WRONG even after it is clearly pointed out to you that you are.

You are the one with myopic vision that only sees what he wants.

I named SIX teams that IMPROVED with a NEW SYSTEM.

You did not name a single team that struggled with a new system. The Bills did NOT struggle to learn the defense Wanny ran. The reason the defense struggled is the defense was so SIMPLE no offense struggled with it either.

At least I am man enough to admit when I am wrong as I did in this thread when I said I was wrong about Tebow.

You NEVER admit you are wrong , which you are quite often.
lmao- why would I WANT to see something that suggests the Bills are going to struggle?

And I'm right far more often than I'm wrong. But yet again- you are seeing what you want to see. You won't even admit that the Bills D struggled in Wanny's system last year despite a performance that was setting records for futility. But noooo.... it wasn't the system in THAT case. You have your excuses all lined up so you can continue to ignore the reality and see what you want to see.

And once again, I'm not saying anything new or shocking by saying teams struggle in new systems. It's just what happens. But people like you insist on arguing with me so you can continue to hide from the reality that the most likely outcome is another horrific season for the Bills.

As usual, time will prove me right on this.

[better days]

lmao- why would I WANT to see something that suggests the Bills are going to struggle?

And I'm right far more often than I'm wrong. But yet again- you are seeing what you want to see. You won't even admit that the Bills D struggled in Wanny's system last year despite a performance that was setting records for futility. But noooo.... it wasn't the system in THAT case. You have your excuses all lined up so you can continue to ignore the reality and see what you want to see.

And once again, I'm not saying anything new or shocking by saying teams struggle in new systems. It's just what happens. But people like you insist on arguing with me so you can continue to hide from the reality that the most likely outcome is another horrific season for the Bills.

As usual, time will prove me right on this.

Your point was teams struggle to learn a new system. Yet you name only the Bills in that hypothesis.

Yes the Bills defense struggled last year, but not because they struggled to learn it or adjust to it. The Bills defense struggled because it was a terrible, SIMPLE defense with no QB pressure that NO offense struggled with.

There is a reason Wanny did not get hired as a defensive coach after the Bills fired him.

I named SIX teams that IMPROVED with a new system. SIX is the rule not the exception.

You have been proven WRONG Op, you are just not man enough to admit it.

[OpIv37]

Your point was teams struggle to learn a new system. Yet you name only the Bills in that hypothesis.

Yes the Bills defense struggled last year, but not because they struggled to learn it or adjust to it. The Bills defense struggled because it was a terrible, SIMPLE defense with no QB pressure that NO offense struggled with.

There is a reason Wanny did not get hired as a defensive coach after the Bills fired him.

I named SIX teams that IMPROVED with a new system. SIX is the rule not the exception.

You have been proven WRONG Op, you are just not man enough to admit it.

And if I look hard enough I can find 6 lottery winners or 6 people who have been struck by lightning. It's still the exception.

Look at how many teams changed systems and how many of those struggled in the same time frame as your 6. It's the exception. I could go ahead and name them, but why bother? You're just going to have excuses. The Seahawks were 7-9 in a weak division and that's an example of a team that DIDN'T struggle? The Bills struggles have nothing to do with the change in systems? Please. You already have it in your head that changing systems doesn't cause teams to struggle because that's what gives you what you want: a reason keep thinking the Bills are in for a good season. No amount of evidence or reality will convince you otherwise because you don't want to see it.

[better days]

And if I look hard enough I can find 6 lottery winners or 6 people who have been struck by lightning. It's still the exception.

Look at how many teams changed systems and how many of those struggled in the same time frame as your 6. It's the exception. I could go ahead and name them, but why bother? You're just going to have excuses. The Seahawks were 7-9 in a weak division and that's an example of a team that DIDN'T struggle? The Bills struggles have nothing to do with the change in systems? Please. You already have it in your head that changing systems doesn't cause teams to struggle because that's what gives you what you want: a reason keep thinking the Bills are in for a good season. No amount of evidence or reality will convince you otherwise because you don't want to see it.

Like I said, you are not man enough to admit when you are WRONG.

How many teams do you think changed systems over the last 3 years?

Even when a coaching change occurs, the system does not always change.

SIX is a SIZABLE number of teams that IMPROVED with a NEW SYSTEM in a short period of time.

The Seahawks were BETTER with that new system than the year before when they won only 5 games. The 7-9 record was due as much to the offense as the defense with its NEW system.

[Captain Obvious]

In many cases I agree, but you can't blame every single person ever associated with the Bills for that record.

Yes OPIV thinks Stevie Johnson is a liablility and has put a lot of blame on him for there struggles the last 3 years Johnson has been a starter in the NFL

[OpIv37]

Yes OPIV thinks Stevie Johnson is a liablility and has put a lot of blame on him for there struggles the last 3 years Johnson has been a starter in the NFL

I've put blame on Stevie for the things Stevie has ****ed up- and there are many of them. However, I have NOT "put a lot of blame for there (I think you mean "their") struggles" on Stevie. Given the way you cyber-stalk me, you should be well aware that my criticisms of the team go FAR beyond Stevie.

[OpIv37]

Like I said, you are not man enough to admit when you are WRONG.

How many teams do you think changed systems over the last 3 years?

Even when a coaching change occurs, the system does not always change.

SIX is a SIZABLE number of teams that IMPROVED with a NEW SYSTEM in a short period of time.

The Seahawks were BETTER with that new system than the year before when they won only 5 games. The 7-9 record was due as much to the offense as the defense with its NEW system.

LMAO.

Teams don't keep the same systems when they change coaches. They change because things aren't working. This is exactly the type of excuse that I'm talking about. "Coaching change doesn't mean system change, the Bills defensive struggles weren't because of the system change." You already have the wall of excuses built up for all the information that proves you wrong.

It is simply not realistic to expect a D with a paper tiger DL, no talent at LB, no CB's beyond Gilmore, and only one proven S who is holding out to improve while they are changing systems.

[trapezeus]

Don't look at me. OP was.the one saying Nix is batting less than 50% and has been pathetic the last 3 years. I know for a fact that the pats haven't been good at drafting as well yet they win. Carder ? Pats drafted busts higher than where we took Carder.look at their history. Some of them don't even play anymore. That rb in the first round comes to mind. Were they geniuses for taking Brady when they did or just lucky? I don't have a problem with Kids draft. His mistake was hiring Chan and listening to him. Even bringing in a guy like Mario didn't work so draft picks mean nothing if you have the wrong Coach.

pats are a little outside the norm with the cheating. they win at home at 3 standard deviation move from the norm. So clearly its not just an issue about drafting talent. something else is driving their "success"

but teams like the packers, find their talent in the draft, rarely sign FA and are constantly in the think of things. they got their QB, they keep a QB in the mix to groom along, and they find superstars early and depth later.

this is what a good GM should be doing.

only in buffalo can we debate that a guy with 3 yrs, arguably 4 drafts, the coach he wanted and misse dthe playoffs all 3 years was "average" for the team. maybe in buffalo he was average, but compared to the rest of the league, he was an outright failure that would have been asked to pack his things.

[better days]

LMAO.

Teams don't keep the same systems when they change coaches. They change because things aren't working. This is exactly the type of excuse that I'm talking about. "Coaching change doesn't mean system change, the Bills defensive struggles weren't because of the system change." You already have the wall of excuses built up for all the information that proves you wrong.

It is simply not realistic to expect a D with a paper tiger DL, no talent at LB, no CB's beyond Gilmore, and only one proven S who is holding out to improve while they are changing systems.

Like I said, you are NOT man enough to admit when you are WRONG.

You CAN'T name any teams that struggled with a new system while I have named SIX that showed VAST IMPROVEMENT IMMEDIATELY with a NEW System.

[OpIv37]

Like I said, you are NOT man enough to admit when you are WRONG.

You CAN'T name any teams that struggled with a new system while I have named SIX that showed VAST IMPROVEMENT IMMEDIATELY with a NEW System.

Lmao- I gave you 4 examples FROM THE BILLS ALONE.

[better days]

Lmao- I gave you 4 examples FROM THE BILLS ALONE.

LMAO, NO you didn't give one example. The Bills did not struggle to understand or play that defense. The defense was just not good.

And even if you were right about the Bills, that is only one out of MANY. CHERRY PICKING & the exception that proves the rule.

It must kill you to be WRONG.

[OpIv37]

LMAO, NO you didn't give one example. The Bills did not struggle to understand or play that defense. The defense was just not good.

And even if you were right about the Bills, that is only one out of MANY. CHERRY PICKING & the exception that proves the rule.

It must kill you to be WRONG.

Um, did you even watch, say Aaron Williams running around like a chicken with his head cut off last year? There was definitely a struggle to learn the D.

4 examples from ONE TEAM ALONE is not cherry-picking.

Of course you've convinced yourself that I'm wrong- it's the only way to continue your delusion.

[DraftBoy]

LMAO, NO you didn't give one example. The Bills did not struggle to understand or play that defense. The defense was just not good.

And even if you were right about the Bills, that is only one out of MANY. CHERRY PICKING & the exception that proves the rule.

It must kill you to be WRONG.
Raiders since Madden....

What do I win?

[trapezeus]

so BD, in other threads you are saying the bills had bad coaching last year and here you are saying the coaches new system couldn't affect the players.

it doesn't have ot be one or the other, but i think the bills are under talented and the coaches, even if they are excellent, will need time.

and alot of those teams you cite are good early and then other teams catch up to them and they level off in the back half of the season.a nd people get anxious to say that that is just the beginning when often times, they just topped out by simply being different.

[Captain Obvious]

The 2007 Bills when Jauron first took over on both O and D.


Dick Jauron was hired prior to the 2006 season

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Raiders since Madden....

What do I win?

eh... since Flores. lol

[swiper]

so BD, in other threads you are saying the bills had bad coaching last year and here you are saying the coaches new system couldn't affect the players.

it doesn't have ot be one or the other, but i think the bills are under talented and the coaches, even if they are excellent, will need time.

and alot of those teams you cite are good early and then other teams catch up to them and they level off in the back half of the season.a nd people get anxious to say that that is just the beginning when often times, they just topped out by simply being different.

It begins and ends with a franchise QB. Until they get one it will stay the same.

[better days]

Raiders since Madden....

What do I win?

Well, Name 6 other teams & even then it would only be ONE more team than I named that has SUCCESS with a NEW SYSTEM.

Op's point was MOST teams STRUGGLE with a new system. I proved that is a FALLACY unless you can name 24 teams that changed systems in the last 3 years that did struggle.

[OpIv37]

Well, Name 6 other teams & even then it would only be ONE more team than I named that has SUCCESS with a NEW SYSTEM.

Op's point was MOST teams STRUGGLE with a new system. I proved that is a FALLACY unless you can name 24 teams that changed systems in the last 3 years that did struggle.

24? where did that arbitrary number come from?

And have there even been 24 teams that changed systems in the last 3 years?

You're really grasping at straws now.

And it's not MY point. It's commonly accepted knowledge by anyone who follows football.

[better days]

Um, did you even watch, say Aaron Williams running around like a chicken with his head cut off last year? There was definitely a struggle to learn the D.

4 examples from ONE TEAM ALONE is not cherry-picking.

Of course you've convinced yourself that I'm wrong- it's the only way to continue your delusion.

You are grasping at straws. Aaron Williams 99% of the time was right where he was supposed to be, he just could not make the play. Hopefully he does better at safety.

Have you ever in your life admitted to being WRONG? You clearly are on this issue.

I have never seen you admit to being WRONG on this board as you are now on this subject. NOBODY is right 100% of the time about everything......................but you will probably disagree with that.

[better days]

24? where did that arbitrary number come from?

And have there even been 24 teams that changed systems in the last 3 years?

You're really grasping at straws now.

And it's not MY point. It's commonly accepted knowledge by anyone who follows football.

I came up with 24 because it is 4 times 6 which would be the number needed to qualify as MOST in relation to the 6 teams that had success.

And NO, 24 teams did not change systems in the last 3 years. That is my point. MOST teams that did change systems in the last 3 years did NOT STRUGGLE with the NEW SYSTEM.

[OpIv37]

You are grasping at straws. Aaron Williams 99% of the time was right where he was supposed to be, he just could not make the play. Hopefully he does better at safety.

Have you ever in your life admitted to being WRONG? You clearly are on this issue.

I have never seen you admit to being WRONG on this board as you are now on this subject. NOBODY is right 100% of the time about everything......................but you will probably disagree with that.

Do you even WATCH football? Aaron Williams was constantly out of place last year, and he wasn't the only one. But of course, admitting that reality ruins you're delusion.

You're continuing to try to make it about me so you don't have to acknowledge reality. If I'm wrong, then so are a ton of people who know a lot more about football than me. You are arguing against football common sense because you cherry-picked a few exceptions to the rule.

[OpIv37]

I came up with 24 because it is 4 times 6 which would be the number needed to qualify as MOST in relation to the 6 teams that had success.

And NO, 24 teams did not change systems in the last 3 years. That is my point. MOST teams that did change systems in the last 3 years did NOT STRUGGLE with the NEW SYSTEM.

What the hell are you babbling about? When did "most" mean 4 times?

If 14 teams changed systems and 10 of the 14 struggled, that would constitute "most". The 4 is some arbitrary nonsense you threw in to make the threshold unreasonably high.

[mayotm]

An epic battle between the ultimate homer and ultimate pessimist.

[better days]

My opinion is based on what the players have done in the past and the fact that pretty much every team struggled when learning a new system- ie, logic.

Your opinion is based on abstract concepts like "belief" and "excitement" ie, what you hope will happen and nothing more.

Not all opinions are equal. Some see the facts. Some see what they want to see.


Well, you did not say most, you said " Pretty much every team struggled when learning a new system"

In other words you were saying NO team had success with a new system. I pointed out 6 that did, that PROVES you WRONG!

[Joe Fo Sho]

Aaron Williams 99% of the time was right where he was supposed to be, he just could not make the play.

If he couldn't make the play, he must've been in the wrong place.

[better days]

An epic battle between the ultimate homer and ultimate pessimist.

Justa might give me a run for the money though.

[better days]

If he couldn't make the play, he must've been in the wrong place.

That is just wrong. Many times players are in the right place, they just fail to make the play.

A missed block, a missed tackle, just missing to get a hand on a ball in the air by a fraction of an inch.

[OpIv37]

Well, you did not say most, you said " Pretty much every team struggled when learning a new system"

In other words you were saying NO team had success with a new system. I pointed out 6 that did, that PROVES you WRONG!

No, what I said was "pretty much every team". I intentionally left wiggle room in there because I know there are exceptions to every rule.

You don't get to change what I said and then claim I was wrong. It doesn't work like that.

[better days]

No, what I said was "pretty much every team". I intentionally left wiggle room in there because I know there are exceptions to every rule.

You don't get to change what I said and then claim I was wrong. It doesn't work like that.

You said what you said.

Like I said ONE is the exception to the rule. SIX is the rule. You were WRONG.

[OpIv37]

You said what you said.

Like I said ONE is the exception to the rule. SIX is the rule. You were WRONG.

lmao. Like I already said: I can find 6 lotto winners or 6 people who have been struck by lightning if I look hard enough. It's still the exception.

Teams generally struggle when they change systems. You found 6 (really 4 because two of your examples sucked) that didn't, compared to dozens, if not hundreds, that have over the years. I gave you 4 examples JUST FROM THE BILLS in JUST THE LAST 12 YEARS. But, as is your MO, you choose to ignore the information that proves you wrong.

[better days]

lmao. Like I already said: I can find 6 lotto winners or 6 people who have been struck by lightning if I look hard enough. It's still the exception.

Teams generally struggle when they change systems. You found 6 (really 4 because two of your examples sucked) that didn't, compared to dozens, if not hundreds, that have over the years. I gave you 4 examples JUST FROM THE BILLS in JUST THE LAST 12 YEARS. But, as is your MO, you choose to ignore the information that proves you wrong.

It is about NUMBERS. Out of MILLIONS of people, 6 would be an exception.

Out of maybe 7 or 8 teams that changed systems in the last 3 years, 6 is the MAJORITY.

[OpIv37]

It is about NUMBERS. Out of MILLIONS of people, 6 would be an exception.

Out of maybe 7 or 8 teams that changed systems in the last 3 years, 6 is the MAJORITY.

Lmao if you think only 7 or 8 teams changed systems in the last 3 years. Either last year or the year before, there were something like 7 HC changes.

Once again, ignoring the info that proves you wrong.

[better days]

Lmao if you think only 7 or 8 teams changed systems in the last 3 years. Either last year or the year before, there were something like 7 HC changes.

Once again, ignoring the info that proves you wrong.

Well, as I said a team does not change systems just because the HC changes.

The Jags for instance will stick to the 4-3 defense which they have played a LONG time.

[OpIv37]

Well, as I said a team does not change systems just becaus rthe HC changes.

The Jags for instance will stick to the 4-3 defense which they have played a LONG time.

Except that there are several variations on the 4-3. Just because a team doesn't change from the 3-4 to the 4-3 or vice versa doesn't mean they aren't changing systems.

But once again, just ignore the info that proves you wrong....

[better days]

Except that there are several variations on the 4-3. Just because a team doesn't change from the 3-4 to the 4-3 or vice versa doesn't mean they aren't changing systems.

But once again, just ignore the info that proves you wrong....

Different variations? Aside from Wanny, teams play different variations on a WEEKLY basis.

The Bills plan to do that this year, on BOTH offense & defense.

And When Tony Dungy left the Colts, they did not change the offense or defense for years.

When Dungy left the Bucs, the Bucs kept the Tampa 2 in place for years, but they did change the offense, WINNING the Super Bowl with a NEW SYSTEM on offense.

[OpIv37]

Different variations? Aside from Wanny, teams play different variations on a WEEKLY basis.

The Bills plan to do that this year, on BOTH offense & defense.

And When Tony Dungy left the Colts, they did not change the offense or defense for years.

When Dungy left the Bucs, the Bucs kept the Tampa 2 in place for years, but they did change the offense, WINNING the Super Bowl with a NEW SYSTEM on offense.

They won the SB with a spectacular D that DIDN'T CHANGE. TB was 24th on Offense in 2002 when they won the SB:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/year/2002

So, thanks for helping prove my point.

And as far as the variations: well, under Gregg Williams, the Bills played a 46 D from a 4-3 set. Under Jauron, they played a Tampa 2 out of a base 4-3 set. Both 4-3's, completely different defenses.

[better days]

They won the SB with a spectacular D that DIDN'T CHANGE. TB was 24th on Offense in 2002 when they won the SB:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/year/2002

So, thanks for helping prove my point.

And as far as the variations: well, under Gregg Williams, the Bills played a 46 D from a 4-3 set. Under Jauron, they played a Tampa 2 out of a base 4-3 set. Both 4-3's, completely different defenses.

So your point is a team can WIN even the Super Bowl with a NEW SYSTEM. Thanks for admitting that.

And NO the 4-3 is the 4-3 you have players with the same skill set pretty much & these guys have been playing football their entire lives with a few exceptions. If they can't adjust to a few variations they should not be in the NFL.

[OpIv37]

So your point is a team can WIN even the Super Bowl with a NEW SYSTEM. Thanks for admitting that.

And NO the 4-3 is the 4-3 you have players with the same skill set pretty much & these guys have been playing football their entire lives with a few exceptions. If they can't adjust to a few variations they should not be in the NFL.

They had ONE new system on O that got them ranked 24th. They won the SB because of a CONSISTENT D THAT DIDN'T CHANGE.

The Bills, by contrast, were piss-poor on both O and D and are changing systems on both O and D this year.

And you are wrong on the last part. If that's your standard, a lot of good guys should be cut. Hell, we should cut Mario Williams. The Bills' D was different from Houston's and he didn't learn it well in a year.

[BillsFever21]

First, the Jets allowed ESPN to turn the entire year into a CIRCUS. Then they hardly used him & when they did, they did not use him properly. Tebow completed 6 of the 8 passes he was allowed to throw.

Of course no team wants to touch him now, because NOBODY wants the Circus ESPN will make it again if he signed with another team.

It didn't matter where he went there would've been a media circus. If he was a good player then the media circus wouldn't be an issue to a team. He would be a backup at best without any of the hoopla let alone when a team needs to put up with his cult following.

So I guess he is a good passer since he completed 6 out 8 passes for 39 yards out of an option formation and 23 yards of them came on one pass. So he passed for 16 yards on the other 5 completions. If that was an attempt to try and show he is a good quarterback it was a pretty sad one.

[trapezeus]

how did tebow get involved in this thread? the fake messiah faking that he isn't all ego.

Frankly, i wouldn't be surprised if the first gay football player turns out to be tebow. Too bad he is already out of football.

[better days]

They had ONE new system on O that got them ranked 24th. They won the SB because of a CONSISTENT D THAT DIDN'T CHANGE.

The Bills, by contrast, were piss-poor on both O and D and are changing systems on both O and D this year.

And you are wrong on the last part. If that's your standard, a lot of good guys should be cut. Hell, we should cut Mario Williams. The Bills' D was different from Houston's and he didn't learn it well in a year.

What the hell are you talking about? Mario adjusted from the 4-3 in Texas to the 3-4 in Texas & back to the 4-3 in Buffalo. He had an INJURY last year.

And do you think the Bills would have signed TJAX or Kolb if either had said " well Buddy, you know I am going to STRUGGLE learning the NEW SYSTEM?" HELL NO. And if either of them does struggle, you can bet they won't be on the roster opening day.

Players are EXPECTED to pick up whatever the Coaches are throwing down & if they don't, they won't last long.

[better days]

how did tebow get involved in this thread? the fake messiah faking that he isn't all ego.

Frankly, i wouldn't be surprised if the first gay football player turns out to be tebow. Too bad he is already out of football.

Well, even if Tebow is gay, you can bet he is NOT the first gay player in the NFL. Not even Tom Brady can make that claim & he has been in the NFL much longer.

[better days]

It didn't matter where he went there would've been a media circus. If he was a good player then the media circus wouldn't be an issue to a team. He would be a backup at best without any of the hoopla let alone when a team needs to put up with his cult following.

So I guess he is a good passer since he completed 6 out 8 passes for 39 yards out of an option formation and 23 yards of them came on one pass. So he passed for 16 yards on the other 5 completions. If that was an attempt to try and show he is a good quarterback it was a pretty sad one.

The point is the Jets gave him NO CHANCE to show he is a Good QB or a bad QB for that matter. And there was NO CIRCUS in Denver the year before. Yes the Media was all over him, but NOTHING like last year.

[SpikedLemonade]

The point is the Jets gave him NO CHANCE to show he is a Good QB or a bad QB for that matter. And there was NO CIRCUS in Denver the year before. Yes the Media was all over him, but NOTHING like last year.

Perhaps the difference between a media center like New York City and a relative backwater like Denver?

[better days]

Perhaps the difference between a media center like New York City and a relative backwater like Denver?

No doubt that played a part in it, but the Jets encouraged the Circus, from the opening press conference to training camp & all preseason when they told everyone they have this great plan for Tebow which they were not going to let out until the season started.

Well, they had no such plan for Tebow or anyone else on that team for that matter.

[OpIv37]

What the hell are you talking about? Mario adjusted from the 4-3 in Texas to the 3-4 in Texas & back to the 4-3 in Buffalo. He had an INJURY last year.

And do you think the Bills would have signed TJAX or Kolb if either had said " well Buddy, you know I am going to STRUGGLE learning the NEW SYSTEM?" HELL NO. And if either of them does struggle, you can bet they won't be on the roster opening day.

Players are EXPECTED to pick up whatever the Coaches are throwing down & if they don't, they won't last long.

Mario struggled for most of last season. Injury was a convenient excuse.

And no player is expected to learn the system right away. Watch or read any NFL analyst. They ALWAYS say that teams switching systems will struggle while they are learning. You are just making **** up to try to prove your point now.

[mayotm]

The point is the Jets gave him NO CHANCE to show he is a Good QB or a bad QB for that matter. And there was NO CIRCUS in Denver the year before. Yes the Media was all over him, but NOTHING like last year.The fact that you continue to defend and make excuses for Tebow kills your credibility when debating other players. At times you seem unable to differentiate the player from the person. In other words, you like Tebow the human being so can't admit he's not a good NFL QB.

[better days]

Mario struggled for most of last season. Injury was a convenient excuse.

And no player is expected to learn the system right away. Watch or read any NFL analyst. They ALWAYS say that teams switching systems will struggle while they are learning. You are just making **** up to try to prove your point now.

Convenient excuse? You probably wouldn't even be typing on your keyboard posting on this board if your wrist was messed up like Marios was.

Link something that says what you are saying about players not being expected to learn or at least tell me where to look for it. That is Nonsense. Like I said if either Kolb or TJAX struggles to learn the new system, they will get cut before the season starts.