Gabe Carimi Watch

[swiper]

How would you like to have Gabe Carimi thrown into the mix at guard/right tackle?


Bears could cut Carimi, two years after taking him in Round 1

Posted by Michael David Smith on May 13, 2013, 4:24 PM EDT

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/gabecarimibuffalobillsvchicagobearsf9ppzis7nu8l.jpg?w=250

In 2011, the previous regime in Chicago liked Gabe Carimi (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6518/gabe-carimi) enough to pick him in the first round of the NFL draft. In 2013, the current regime in Chicago may not even like Carimi enough to give him a spot on the 53-man roster.

Brad Biggs of the Chicago Tribune reports that Carimi is in the midst of a competition for a roster spot (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-05-12/sports/ct-spt-0513-bears-5-to-watch-chicago-20130513_1_gabe-carimi-earl-bennett-phil-emery).

Carimi can play both guard and tackle, which would seem to improve his chances of making the roster, but a closer look at the line raises the question of where Carimi would fit: Jermon Bushrod (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4455/jermon-bushrod) is set as the starter at left tackle, and right tackle will be a competition between J’Marcus Webb (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5968/jmarcus-webb) and Jonathan Scott (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3952/jonathan-scott), with the loser between those two probably making the roster as a backup. The recently signed Matt Slauson (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5407/matt-slauson) and this year’s first-round draft pick, Kyle Long (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8421/kyle-long), will likely start at guard. That might leave Carimi battling to be the third guard on the 53-man roster, and he could easily lose that job to Edwin Williams (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5537/edwin-williams) because Williams has experience at center and could step in if starter Roberto Garza (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2104/roberto-garza) got hurt.

Carimi began his rookie season as the Bears’ starting right tackle, but he played in only two games in 2011 before suffering a season-ending knee injury. In 2012 Carimi played in all 16 games, starting 14, but he didn’t play particularly well: He was benched in November and only returned to the field when the Bears lost two guards to injuries.

So if Carimi doesn’t have a strong camp, he could be out of a job.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/13/bears-could-cut-carimi-two-years-after-taking-him-in-round-1/

[Skooby]

So you would like to have another team's failed project ?? Hmmm...

[SpikedLemonade]

Sure have him work out, but I would not hold out much hope for a player that is cut after 2 years of his rookie contract.

[swiper]

Two years after being drafted in the first round is a failure? Especially when one of those years he was injured? Sounds like giving up too early to me. Furthermore I did not say to make him the starter Mr. Mitch Reading Comprehension. I merely suggested putting him into the mix. He immediately has better credentials coming in than any current guard on the roster.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Sure have him work out, but I would not hold out much hope for a player that is cut after 2 years of his rookie contract.

It happens sometimes. Maybin got cut two years after we drafted him.

He's worth a look IMO. I don't know why he sucked in Chicago, but if it is something fixable then it's worth the cheap contract.

[better days]

Wait. Nix is criticized for his drafting????????????

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Wait. Nix is criticized for his drafting????????????

Yes he is. What's your point?

[DraftBoy]

As an OG he's worth a look, his feet are too slow to play OT.

[BertSquirtgum]

So you would like to have another team's failed project ?? Hmmm...

Why not? It worked with Kraig Urbik.

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Wait. Nix is criticized for his drafting????????????

His first two years of drafting were dog ****.

[Meathead]

Why not? It worked with Kraig Urbik.


just gonna post that. urbik was a castoff from a bad steelers line and yet has become a fixture here. chalk that one up to buddy

[coastal]

Lets kick him inside!

[IlluminatusUIUC]

just gonna post that. urbik was a castoff from a bad steelers line and yet has become a fixture here. chalk that one up to buddy

Urbik was Carimi's teammate at UW

[Mouldsie]

Agreed, he could be s solid guard

[TigerJ]

As an OG he's worth a look, his feet are too slow to play OT.Not that I've ever scouted him, or anybody, but I agree, that's probably where he would fit in any competition to make the team in Buffalo. If he couldn't make the team as a starter at guard, he probably wouldn't make it at all since he appears to have limited versatility. Buffalo will look and see what they've got at guard when training camp starts, and if they aren't as happy as they think they'll be with what they've got, they could bring him in for a look see, if and when he gets cut.

[Buffalo Billy Bison]

I would love to have Carimi at RT on the Bills! That would be just fine with me!

[OpIv37]

It happens sometimes. Maybin got cut two years after we drafted him.

He's worth a look IMO. I don't know why he sucked in Chicago, but if it is something fixable then it's worth the cheap contract.
Careful with your examples- Maybin also failed in his comeback stint with the Jets. Does that mean Carimi will fail? No, but a guy in a similar situation who contributed to his 2nd team would have been a better example for your point.

[Bangarang]

As an OG he's worth a look, his feet are too slow to play OT.

Wasn't Carimi considered a plug and play RT for many years?

[better days]

Yes he is. What's your point?

My point is he SHOULD NOT BE.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

My point is he SHOULD NOT BE.

Because Gabe Carimi busted?

[clumping platelets]

Just sign Winston for RT and see if Hairston can handle LG

[better days]

Because Gabe Carimi busted?

Because Nix has NOT drafted a first rnd pick that has.

I asked Op in a different thread to name at least 15 teams that drafted better than the Bills did over the last 3 years.

Now it is your turn, name at least 15 teams that drafted better than the Bills in the last 3 years.

[swiper]

Lets kick him inside!

Thought you might like the idea.

[swiper]

Because Nix has NOT drafted a first rnd pick that has.

I asked Op in a different thread to name at least 15 teams that drafted better than the Bills did over the last 3 years.

Now it is your turn, name at least 15 teams that drafted better than the Bills in the last 3 years.

Listen I have been reading most of this back & forth. You can give Nix credit for one thing and one thing only regarding his drafting. It is this: he has taken obvious blue chip players at number one in Spiller, Dareus, Gilmore. (I think he made a big swing and miss with Manuel though). After that, Nix has failed to stand out in his drafting. In fact he has taken several players of great question in the lower rounds while skipping over better players in area of need. Just take the Aaron Williams, TJ Graham picks while he passed over a few very good QBs. That is just the most glaring issue.

[better days]

Listen I have been reading most of this back & forth. You can give Nix credit for one thing and one thing only regarding his drafting. It is this: he has taken obvious blue chip players at number one in Spiller, Dareus, Gilmore. (I think he made a big swing and miss with Manuel though). After that, Nix has failed to stand out in his drafting. In fact he has taken several players of great question in the lower rounds while skipping over better players in area of need. Just take the Aaron Williams, TJ Graham picks while he passed over a few very good QBs. That is just the most glaring issue.

OK maybe you can help the others.

If Nix has drafted so bad, name at least 15 other teams that have drafted BETTER than the Bills over the last 3 years.

That would put the Bills in the middle of the pack among teams, in the mediocre range.

If Nix drafted as bad as some say, they should be able to name at least 20 teams that drafted BETTER than the Bills the last 3 years.

[DraftBoy]

Wasn't Carimi considered a plug and play RT for many years?

Until his pre-draft workouts yes.

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Because Nix has NOT drafted a first rnd pick that has.

I asked Op in a different thread to name at least 15 teams that drafted better than the Bills did over the last 3 years.

Now it is your turn, name at least 15 teams that drafted better than the Bills in the last 3 years.

Is the new standard that we want our team to be the 15th best drafting team in the NFL?

[better days]

Until his pre-draft workouts yes.

- - - Updated - - -



Is the new standard that we want our team to be the 15th best drafting team in the NFL?

Well, I don't think we rank 15 myself. What do you think?

And if you think that, name 14 teams that drafted better than the Bills in the last 3 years.

[swiper]

Because Gabe Carimi busted?

Depends what your definition of busted is, I guess. He was on the team for 2 years. He was injured for one. Rather than busted, it sounds like they are considering giving up on him because they have other talent that can fit better or cheaper into their new system. Doesn't mean that Carimi may still have that 1st round talent that got him drafted there.

[swiper]

OK maybe you can help the others.

If Nix has drafted so bad, name at least 15 other teams that have drafted BETTER than the Bills over the last 3 years.

That would put the Bills in the middle of the pack among teams, in the mediocre range.

If Nix drafted as bad as some say, they should be able to name at least 20 teams that drafted BETTER than the Bills the last 3 years.

Name 15 teams that drafted worse.

I think you're off the mark, because judging how Nix has done is the WIN/LOSS record. And it's worse than that of Dick Jaurons. Nix drafts the players and hires the coaches. You want to give him an awful lot of credit for taking 'gimmes' that he did in Spiller/Dareus/Gilmore.

[better days]

Name 15 teams that drafted worse.

I think you're off the mark, because judging how Nix has done is the WIN/LOSS record. And it's worse than that of Dick Jaurons. Nix drafts the players and hires the coaches. You want to give him an awful lot of credit for taking 'gimmes' that he did in Spiller/Dareus/Gilmore.

As Carimi proves, there are no gimmes. As Nix has said, his legacy will be decided in the next 2 or 3 years.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Because Nix has NOT drafted a first rnd pick that has.

I asked Op in a different thread to name at least 15 teams that drafted better than the Bills did over the last 3 years.

Now it is your turn, name at least 15 teams that drafted better than the Bills in the last 3 years.

Baltimore, Carolina, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Denver, Houston, Indianapolis, Miami, New England, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Washington

What do I win?


Depends what your definition of busted is, I guess. He was on the team for 2 years. He was injured for one. Rather than busted, it sounds like they are considering giving up on him because they have other talent that can fit better or cheaper into their new system. Doesn't mean that Carimi may still have that 1st round talent that got him drafted there.

Getting drafted in the first and then failing to make the roster on one of the worst pass blocking teams in the league before your 3rd year is a major bust. Maybe he could be salvaged on another team, but that's a wasted pick for Chicago.

[DraftBoy]

Well, I don't think we rank 15 myself. What do you think?

And if you think that, name 14 teams that drafted better than the Bills in the last 3 years.

So where do we rank then?

My issue isn't with where you rank them, but rather with the horrifically low standard you asked others to prove. All they have to do is prove we are a mid-level drafting team? That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of any GM.

[better days]

So where do we rank then?

My issue isn't with where you rank them, but rather with the horrifically low standard you asked others to prove. All they have to do is prove we are a mid-level drafting team? That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of any GM.

My point was they are saying Nix was TERRIBLE at drafting. So they should have no problem naming at least 15 teams that drafted better which would put the Bills at #16 in the league, a mediocre record but not even as terrible as Op & others have said.

I think the Bills are in the top 25% since Nix was hired.

[DraftBoy]

My point was they are saying Nix was TERRIBLE at drafting. So they should have no problem naming at least 15 teams that drafted better which would put the Bills at #16 in the league, a mediocre record but not even as terrible as Op & others have said.

I think the Bills are in the top 25% since Nix was hired.

#16 would be horrible.

[better days]

#16 would be horrible.

#16 would be mediocre IMO.

#26 would be HORRIBLE.

[DraftBoy]

#16 would be mediocre IMO.

#26 would be HORRIBLE.

And that's my issues, your standards are far too low.

[Mr. Miyagi]

And that's my issues, your standards are far too low.

Not sure if that makes any sense. There are 32 teams, so ranki #16 would be right in the middle of the curve, almost the exact definition of mediocre.

[better days]

Thought you might like the idea.

Well, I HATE that idea myself. You don't move a VERY GOOD LT inside to guard, that is just STUPID.

[DraftBoy]

Not sure if that makes any sense. There are 32 teams, so ranki #16 would be right in the middle of the curve, almost the exact definition of mediocre.

And when did middle of the road become acceptable?

[swiper]

Well, I HATE that idea myself. You don't move a VERY GOOD LT inside to guard, that is just STUPID.

Who said anything about doing that?

[swiper]

Getting drafted in the first and then failing to make the roster on one of the worst pass blocking teams in the league before your 3rd year is a major bust. Maybe he could be salvaged on another team, but that's a wasted pick for Chicago.

Again, he was injured. And was the lousy line play because of 5 lousy players or the lousy coaching?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Again, he was injured. And was the lousy line play because of 5 lousy players or the lousy coaching?

It doesn't matter if he was injured. He was their first round pick and he might not even make it to a third season. How is that not a bust? According to spotrac, if they cut him his dead cap would be higher than if they kept him.

If the Bears are willing to eat more cap cutting him then keeping him, that's a massive bust for them. It doesn't matter if he later goes on to the hall of fame, Chicago screwed it up.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I like our 3 guys in competition. scott, young, brown

[swiper]

It doesn't matter if he was injured. He was their first round pick and he might not even make it to a third season. How is that not a bust? According to spotrac, if they cut him his dead cap would be higher than if they kept him.

If the Bears are willing to eat more cap cutting him then keeping him, that's a massive bust for them. It doesn't matter if he later goes on to the hall of fame, Chicago screwed it up.

Interesting. Again, they had a change of coaching staffs. The new staff has no ties to the players the old staff drafted, but it doesn't mean the player is a bust. Maybe the move turned out to be a bust for the Bears, but the player is young enough to revive his career, ala Craig Urbik as had been mentioned.

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I like our 3 guys in competition. scott, young, brown

You really are NWF, aren't you?

[Fixxxer]

Wasn't Carimi considered a plug and play RT for many years?

Yes, mostly by him.


"I'm completely confident in my game. I really don't have any problems. I know I'm going out there and perform. I know I'm the best tackle out there and I just have to play like it and act like it."

http://www.csnne.com/patriots/wisconsins-carimi-proclaims-himself-best-ot-draft

[better days]

Interesting. Again, they had a change of coaching staffs. The new staff has no ties to the players the old staff drafted, but it doesn't mean the player is a bust. Maybe the move turned out to be a bust for the Bears, but the player is young enough to revive his career, ala Craig Urbik as had been mentioned.

- - - Updated -


Even if he does revive his career, he is a BUST of a draft pick for the team that drafted him.

[swiper]

Even if he does revive his career, he is a BUST of a draft pick for the team that drafted him.

Well, again, it depends how you define 'bust.'

To me that's Ryan Leaf who never panned out anywhere. If Carimi revives his career elsewhere then he is really not a bust.

[better days]

Well, again, it depends how you define 'bust.'

To me that's Ryan Leaf who never panned out anywhere. If Carimi revives his career elsewhere then he is really not a bust.

I define bust as a player that is of NO VALUE & provides NOTHING to the team that drafted him.

It does not matter if he makes the Pro Bowl LATER for a different team. Unless the team that drafted him got VALUE in a trade for him, he is a BUST for the team that DRAFTED him.

[starrymessenger]

It's pretty clear by now that he doesn't have the foot speed to pass protect from the tackle position. But he grades out well as a run blocker. Kick him inside and his pass pro could be acceptable. If so you could end up with a good LG.

[swiper]

I define bust as a player that is of NO VALUE & provides NOTHING to the team that drafted him.

It does not matter if he makes the Pro Bowl LATER for a different team. Unless the team that drafted him got VALUE in a trade for him, he is a BUST for the team that DRAFTED him.

Your definition of a bust is odd. And certainly not the mainstream.

And, by that definition, means Steve Young is a bust in your world.

[better days]

Your definition of a bust is odd. And certainly not the mainstream.

And, by that definition, means Steve Young is a bust in your world.

Well, I think my view is pretty mainstream. As for Young, he was not a bust IMO. He had played in the USFL first, & when they folded, the Bucs got his rights. He did nothing in Tampa, but the Bucs traded him to the 49ers for a 2nd & a 4th rnd pick which was some value.

Certainly not the value of a HOF QB, but it was good value at the time of the trade.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Interesting. Again, they had a change of coaching staffs. The new staff has no ties to the players the old staff drafted, but it doesn't mean the player is a bust. Maybe the move turned out to be a bust for the Bears, but the player is young enough to revive his career, ala Craig Urbik as had been mentioned.

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You really are NWF, aren't you?

huh?

[pmoon6]

huh?Don't play stupid. You have the same posting style.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Don't play stupid. You have the same posting style. correlation/ causation??? :crack:

[pmoon6]

correlation/ causation???:coocoo:Yeah, I am crazy. However, a moderator didn't put that description above your avatar for nothin'.

Keep playing your games though. I do miss the days when you used to be mildly amusing instead of trying to convince everyone you actually know something.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Dealt to the Buccaneers for a 6th rounder? Daaaaaaaaaaamn.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/06/09/gabe-carimi-trade-bears-bucs-buccaneers/?sct=hp_t2_a8&eref=sihp

Hell, I'd have tossed a 6th their way just to see if reuniting him with Urbik would have positive results. Oh well.

[feldspar]

That he was picked in the first round means nothing at this point. Not a thing.

[Night Train]

Dealt to the Buccaneers for a 6th rounder? Daaaaaaaaaaamn.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/06/09/gabe-carimi-trade-bears-bucs-buccaneers/?sct=hp_t2_a8&eref=sihp

Hell, I'd have tossed a 6th their way just to see if reuniting him with Urbik would have positive results. Oh well.

Why ? He's a titanic bust and can't play as an effective starter.

Carimi was plagued by injury troubles during his first season in Chicago, and he lost his starting job at right tackle midway through the 2012 season due to poor play. He finished out the season in a backup role, playing both guard and tackle on the Bears’ offensive line.

[swiper]

Why ? He's a titanic bust and can't play as an effective starter.

Carimi was plagued by injury troubles during his first season in Chicago, and he lost his starting job at right tackle midway through the 2012 season due to poor play. He finished out the season in a backup role, playing both guard and tackle on the Bears’ offensive line.

Says you. Lots of guys get injured and have setbacks. I'm not going to get into a pissing match over Gabe Carimi, but the above post is just ridiculous. He's young enough to still be a player. He needed a change of scenery. We'll all see how he does in Tampa Bay. Either he puts it together or he doesn't. It's one of those deals that if it works out for the Buccaneers, they will look like geniuses.

[Night Train]

Says you. Lots of guys get injured and have setbacks. I'm not going to get into a pissing match over Gabe Carimi, but the above post is just ridiculous. He's young enough to still be a player. He needed a change of scenery. We'll all see how he does in Tampa Bay. Either he puts it together or he doesn't. It's one of those deals that if it works out for the Buccaneers, they will look like geniuses.

He got replaced in the lineup by Jonathon Scott, who the Bills cut while desperate for OL. Can't stay healthy.

Checkmate.

Hope he gets healthy but these guys are signed as street FA's. You do not trade a pick for him unless you are desperate.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I define bust as a player that is of NO VALUE & provides NOTHING to the team that drafted him.

It does not matter if he makes the Pro Bowl LATER for a different team. Unless the team that drafted him got VALUE in a trade for him, he is a BUST for the team that DRAFTED him.

Is Bo Jackson your biggest bust of all time?

[Pinkerton Security]

Is Bo Jackson your biggest bust of all time?

you forgot to CAPITALIZE a few WORDS to accentuate the IMPORTANCE.

[better days]

Is Bo Jackson your biggest bust of all time?

As a Bucs fan I would say yes.

As a Bills fan, Tom Cousineau would have been, but the Bills ended up getting Jim Kelly for his rights so he turned out to be a good pick after all.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Why ? He's a titanic bust and can't play as an effective starter.

Carimi was plagued by injury troubles during his first season in Chicago, and he lost his starting job at right tackle midway through the 2012 season due to poor play. He finished out the season in a backup role, playing both guard and tackle on the Bears’ offensive line.

I'm aware of that but 6th round picks are massive longshots anyway. If given the choice, I'd roll the dice on reclaiming someone like Carimi, who was one of the best linemen in college football only 3 years ago, over someone like Mark Asper or Dustin Hopkins.

In any event, it's not a deal either way. It's just a good gamble IMO.

[Albany,n.y.]

I'm aware of that but 6th round picks are massive longshots anyway. If given the choice, I'd roll the dice on reclaiming someone like Carimi, who was one of the best linemen in college football only 3 years ago, over someone like Mark Asper or Dustin Hopkins.

In any event, it's not a deal either way. It's just a good gamble IMO.
The Bills drafted their kicker for the next decade in the 6th round this year. That guy, Dustin Hopkins, who you mentioned above, will be kicking long after Gabe Carimi is on his couch kicking back beers on Sunday afternoons. I'd rather have a good kicker than another team's bust. The idea that a guy who was one of the best at his position in college is worth a shot after busting in the NFL doesn't work. Nobody cuts a 1st rounder from 2 years ago unless he's worthless as an NFL player (or has serious personal issues which doesn't appear to be the case with Carimi).
The leap from college to the NFL is huge-some great college players can't do it. Carimi seems to be in that category. He's not worth a 6th rounder. Your post reminds me of the ones I used to see who were high on Brian Brohm because they would say "I saw him play in college". The problem is that in college games most of the players they are playing against are guys who can never get to an NFL camp. Anyone can look good if they are better than the guys on the other side of the field. When they get to the NFL, they can be exposed quickly if they're not good enough. Once the 1st rounder is a bust, you can't shine him up & turn him into a useable player. That's because 1st rounders are so valuable, that the odds of a team misjudging him after he's played against NFL guys, as opposed to a guy you pick up who didn't get the chance a 1st rounded got, are pretty low. I'd rather give up a 6th on a guy who showed some potential in pre-season against NFL players, but was a late round-free agent type who couldn't find the opportunity with the team he was on, than another team's 1st round bust who can be had for a 6th 2 years later.

[cookie G]

Dealt to the Buccaneers for a 6th rounder? Daaaaaaaaaaamn.

http://tracking.si.com/2013/06/09/gabe-carimi-trade-bears-bucs-buccaneers/?sct=hp_t2_a8&eref=sihp

Hell, I'd have tossed a 6th their way just to see if reuniting him with Urbik would have positive results. Oh well.

I seriously doubt his is back to where it needs to be, or at least it wasn't last year.

He was marginally slow to begin with, but not THAT slow.

Whether that's becuase he didn't rehab correctly, or the two operations didn't work, I don't know.

But to watch him get rag dolled by Aldon Smith...that's something I wouldn't have expected to see out of him.

There was a "yellow flag" due to knee problems in teh draft, and he was supposedly looking pretty good in his rookie training camp, but then his knee went out in game 2.

He never really did come back..Whether he can or not, I dunno.

I don't see him playing guard for Tampa though, if that's where he's moved. They have Davin Joseph and Nicks. Maybe the injuries both of them had last year haven't healed.

[Typ0]

sometimes people don't fit where they end up and might work out well with a better fit. Our guys have gone about finding everything from everywhere to add to our team before training camp. To me this sounds like they are doing exactly what they should be doing...why are people still *****ing?

[OpIv37]

The Bills drafted their kicker for the next decade in the 6th round this year. That guy, Dustin Hopkins, who you mentioned above, will be kicking long after Gabe Carimi is on his couch kicking back beers on Sunday afternoons. I'd rather have a good kicker than another team's bust. The idea that a guy who was one of the best at his position in college is worth a shot after busting in the NFL doesn't work. Nobody cuts a 1st rounder from 2 years ago unless he's worthless as an NFL player (or has serious personal issues which doesn't appear to be the case with Carimi).
The leap from college to the NFL is huge-some great college players can't do it. Carimi seems to be in that category. He's not worth a 6th rounder. Your post reminds me of the ones I used to see who were high on Brian Brohm because they would say "I saw him play in college". The problem is that in college games most of the players they are playing against are guys who can never get to an NFL camp. Anyone can look good if they are better than the guys on the other side of the field. When they get to the NFL, they can be exposed quickly if they're not good enough. Once the 1st rounder is a bust, you can't shine him up & turn him into a useable player. That's because 1st rounders are so valuable, that the odds of a team misjudging him after he's played against NFL guys, as opposed to a guy you pick up who didn't get the chance a 1st rounded got, are pretty low. I'd rather give up a 6th on a guy who showed some potential in pre-season against NFL players, but was a late round-free agent type who couldn't find the opportunity with the team he was on, than another team's 1st round bust who can be had for a 6th 2 years later.

I disagree with the bolded part. If a first rounder from two years ago is cut, it means he isn't living up to the hype and isn't worth first round money or cap space. That's different from being "completely useless." Now, I'm always skeptical of trying to get by with other teams' rejects and it's rare that players struggle for two years then suddenly live up to the hype, but it does happen. There are times that it's worth the risk.

[better days]

I disagree with the bolded part. If a first rounder from two years ago is cut, it means he isn't living up to the hype and isn't worth first round money or cap space. That's different from being "completely useless." Now, I'm always skeptical of trying to get by with other teams' rejects and it's rare that players struggle for two years then suddenly live up to the hype, but it does happen. There are times that it's worth the risk.

And IMO a 6th rnd pick is not much of a risk at all.

[OpIv37]

And IMO a 6th rnd pick is not much of a risk at all.

This year it may have been a stretch because we were short on picks. Most of the time, I agree- its not much of a risk. Plus, if you trade the pick for a player, at least you have an idea what you are getting, good or bad. It's hard to predict how draft picks will do, especially that deep in the draft.

[Captain Obvious]

Now, I'm always skeptical of trying to get by with other teams' rejects and it's rare that players struggle for two years then suddenly live up to the hype, but it does happen. There are times that it's worth the risk.

Yes you thought it was worth the risk and wanted the Bills to sign Rolondo McClain. You have claimed in the past it is NEVER a good idea to sign or trade for other teams castoffs yet you seem miffed the Bills didnt chase Gabe Carimi it doesnt make sense.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The Bills drafted their kicker for the next decade in the 6th round this year. That guy, Dustin Hopkins, who you mentioned above, will be kicking long after Gabe Carimi is on his couch kicking back beers on Sunday afternoons.

Only other teams' picks bust? Hopkins hasn't even kicked one meaningful ball yet and you're ready to annoint him? Doesn't that violate your own post about the jump from college? I remember when we drafted our "kicker for the next decade" last year in the 7th. Good times.


Nobody cuts a 1st rounder from 2 years ago unless he's worthless as an NFL player (or has serious personal issues which doesn't appear to be the case with Carimi).

The coaching staff changed. New coaching staffs are not married to the previous regime's mistakes. Maybe it was his knee as cookie g suggested, in which case I'm fine with it.


Once the 1st rounder is a bust, you can't shine him up & turn him into a useable player. That's because 1st rounders are so valuable, that the odds of a team misjudging him after he's played against NFL guys, as opposed to a guy you pick up who didn't get the chance a 1st rounded got, are pretty low.

But that does happen. San Francisco has several guys who were slapped with the bust tag at one point or another: Whitner, Davis, they dealt away Smith and added Dorsey. Then you've got guys like LaRon Landry, Greg Olsen, Braylon Edwards, and Reggie Bush who never lived up to their draft slot (and salary) but are valuable contributors if you paid less for them and accordingly expect less.

I mean, talking about his college production isn't exactly harkening way back here, he's 24 years old. All I'm doing is making the same arguments as the people defending the trade for Jerry Hughes.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I disagree with the bolded part. If a first rounder from two years ago is cut, it means he isn't living up to the hype and isn't worth first round money or cap space. That's different from being "completely useless." Now, I'm always skeptical of trying to get by with other teams' rejects and it's rare that players struggle for two years then suddenly live up to the hype, but it does happen. There are times that it's worth the risk.

He doesn't have to live up to the hype of being a 1st rounder to be a solid pickup.

[OpIv37]

Yes you thought it was worth the risk and wanted the Bills to sign Rolondo McClain. You have claimed in the past it is NEVER a good idea to sign or trade for other teams castoffs yet you seem miffed the Bills didnt chase Gabe Carimi it doesnt make sense.
Wrong. I didn't say it was NEVER a good idea to sign or trade for other teams' cast offs. I said it's never a good idea to rely on it as the sole means of improvement at a position, as this team all too often does. It's one thing to take a flyer on a guy like Carimi if your team already has some good players at the position. It's another thing to try to use him to fill a gaping hole.

And even with McClain I admitted it was a gamble and it was far from the optimal choice. Unfortunately, we had the worst LB's in the league last year, and while Manny Lawson appears to be a good addition, he can't fix the problem himself. This ****ty org constantly puts themselves in situations where the only choices they have are far from optimal.

And don't try to bring up Alonzo, as McClain signed before the draft and there was no guarantee we would be able to get a good LB in the draft.

And no, I'm not miffed that we didn't sign this guy. I just disagreed with the portion of his comments that I bolded.

[cookie G]

Mark Asper
Arthur Moats
Chris White
Dan Batten
Cary Harris
Xavier Omon
John Wendling
Keith Ellison
Justin Geisinger
Lauvale Sape
John Wendling
Keith Ellison
Justin Geisinger
Kevin Thomas
Tony Driver
Dan O'Leary
Jimmy Williams
Leif Larsen
Armon Hatcher

That's what the 6th round has brought for the last 14 years.

Moats had an infamous sack a few years ago.
Ellison started on a very bad run defense for 2 years.
Larson could bench the state of Utah, but wasn't a football player.
Wendling had a cool youtube video showing off his vertical.

I'm not sure any of the others made it past 2 years.

It isn't like the pick you are giving up is a sure fire starter, or even a likely contributor. You have as much of a chance to find a player as a UFDA.

Worrying about giving up a 6th is silly.

[swiper]

He got replaced in the lineup by Jonathon Scott, who the Bills cut while desperate for OL. Can't stay healthy.

Checkmate.

Hope he gets healthy but these guys are signed as street FA's. You do not trade a pick for him unless you are desperate.

Again, if he were healthy you'd have a point.

[feldspar]

Worrying about giving up a 6th is silly.

Yet you have TONS of fans crying about how the Bills picked a kicker in the 6th round this year...even despite the fact that kickers are the highest scoring players in the league.

Gotta figure that the Bears had good reasons to get rid of the guy, unless they are incompetent.

I thought we should have kept Ritchie Incognito back whenever that happened.

[BillsFever21]

My point was they are saying Nix was TERRIBLE at drafting. So they should have no problem naming at least 15 teams that drafted better which would put the Bills at #16 in the league, a mediocre record but not even as terrible as Op & others have said.

I think the Bills are in the top 25% since Nix was hired.

He was in the top 25% of the league yet we keep finishing in the bottom 25% of the league with our win/loss record? If he had been drafting that good then we wouldn't be consistently drafting in the Top 5-Top 10 every year in the draft. Name us 24 teams that he has done better at overall throughout the entire draft. We haven't gotten anybody worth one bit of a damn outside of the top few rounds and even the majority of them ones haven't been great. Especially when you look at the players he passed on and who he took over them.

[SpikedLemonade]

Larson could bench the state of Utah, but wasn't a football player.

Didn't Larson also have that out of bounds hit?

KC Parking Lot Style.

[SpikedLemonade]

He was in the top 25% of the league yet we keep finishing in the bottom 25% of the league with our win/loss record? If he had been drafting that good then we wouldn't be consistently drafting in the Top 5-Top 10 every year in the draft. Name us 24 teams that he has done better at overall throughout the entire draft. We haven't gotten anybody worth one bit of a damn outside of the top few rounds and even the majority of them ones haven't been great. Especially when you look at the players he passed on and who he took over them.

I have been given that poster too much credit when I thought he was simply a basement dwelling homer.

I now realize he is a moron.

My apologies for my oversight.

[better days]

He was in the top 25% of the league yet we keep finishing in the bottom 25% of the league with our win/loss record? If he had been drafting that good then we wouldn't be consistently drafting in the Top 5-Top 10 every year in the draft. Name us 24 teams that he has done better at overall throughout the entire draft. We haven't gotten anybody worth one bit of a damn outside of the top few rounds and even the majority of them ones haven't been great. Especially when you look at the players he passed on and who he took over them.

Passing on QBs until this year was his biggest mistake. BUT overall he is the best GM that the Bills have had for drafting in a LONG time. When Lindys comes out, I will tell you who he has drafted better than.

[Albany,n.y.]

Only other teams' picks bust? Hopkins hasn't even kicked one meaningful ball yet and you're ready to annoint him? Doesn't that violate your own post about the jump from college? I remember when we drafted our "kicker for the next decade" last year in the 7th. Good times.




A kicker isn't lining up against bigger and faster goalposts. As long as he doesn't have a hitch that causes him to kick slowly, the speed of the game & size of his opponents does not affect a kicker going from college to the pros like it does to a guy like Aaron Maybin.
Last year we drafted a guy who couldn't kick field goals-a pretty stupid thing to do.
I can't believe you had to ask me and couldn't figure out why drafting a kicker is a lot different than drafting a position player.

[ublinkwescore]

Mark Asper
Arthur Moats
Chris White
Dan Batten
Cary Harris
Xavier Omon
John Wendling
Keith Ellison
Justin Geisinger
Lauvale Sape
John Wendling
Keith Ellison
Justin Geisinger
Kevin Thomas
Tony Driver
Dan O'Leary
Jimmy Williams
Leif Larsen
Armon Hatcher

That's what the 6th round has brought for the last 14 years.

Moats had an infamous sack a few years ago.
Ellison started on a very bad run defense for 2 years.
Larson could bench the state of Utah, but wasn't a football player.
Wendling had a cool youtube video showing off his vertical.

I'm not sure any of the others made it past 2 years.

It isn't like the pick you are giving up is a sure fire starter, or even a likely contributor. You have as much of a chance to find a player as a UFDA.

Worrying about giving up a 6th is silly.

Speaking of Leif Larsen, after we cut him, he went on to have a successful boxing career including a nine bout win streak with 8 of them coming by knock out. He was also selected 5 spots ahead of public enemy number 1 - Tom Brady.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

A kicker isn't lining up against bigger and faster goalposts. As long as he doesn't have a hitch that causes him to kick slowly, the speed of the game & size of his opponents does not affect a kicker going from college to the pros like it does to a guy like Aaron Maybin.
Last year we drafted a guy who couldn't kick field goals-a pretty stupid thing to do.
I can't believe you had to ask me and couldn't figure out why drafting a kicker is a lot different than drafting a position player.

Kickers fail in the NFL all the time, what are you talking about? Mason Crosby was an All-American college kicker and he's been a serious disappointment for the Packers. Mike Nugent was one of the most decorated college kickers ever, and he's on his fourth team. He probably only signed with that fourth team (Cincy) because he's still got supporters in Ohio.

The goalposts may be the same, but pro kickers have to kick longer field goals (most college coaches won't even attempt 50+ yarders if they don't have to), have to kick later in the year in substantially worse weather, and they have to kick over taller, more athletic players.

[Albany,n.y.]

Kickers fail in the NFL all the time, what are you talking about? Mason Crosby was an All-American college kicker and he's been a serious disappointment for the Packers. Mike Nugent was one of the most decorated college kickers ever, and he's on his fourth team. He probably only signed with that fourth team (Cincy) because he's still got supporters in Ohio.

The goalposts may be the same, but pro kickers have to kick longer field goals (most college coaches won't even attempt 50+ yarders if they don't have to), have to kick later in the year in substantially worse weather, and they have to kick over taller, more athletic players.

Mason Crosby has been the Packers kicker for 6 years-he had a bad year last year & suddenly his pro career is a disappointment. Those 1st 5 years he had no problem adjusting to the NFL. You may have some good points but the examples of players you use to make your points are pretty bad. 1st complaining saying you'd rather have Carimi than a guy we just drafted to be our kicker now & well into the future & then calling Mason Crosby, who has a Super Bowl ring a disappointment make your good points look less valid.

[The Jokeman]

Mason Crosby has been the Packers kicker for 6 years-he had a bad year last year & suddenly his pro career is a disappointment. Those 1st 5 years he had no problem adjusting to the NFL. You may have some good points but the examples of players you use to make your points are pretty bad. 1st complaining saying you'd rather have Carimi than a guy we just drafted to be our kicker now & well into the future & then calling Mason Crosby, who has a Super Bowl ring a disappointment make your good points look less valid.

The truth is Kickers bounce around from team to team before latching on a team that needs one. I mean let's not forget we got Lindell as a RFA from the Seahawks but because he was undrafted didn't give up anything for him. Also. the Bills drafted a K (John Potter) in 2011 to me we're wasting late picks. Sure are track record hasn't been good but to me you can always find a kicker.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Mason Crosby has been the Packers kicker for 6 years-he had a bad year last year & suddenly his pro career is a disappointment. Those 1st 5 years he had no problem adjusting to the NFL. You may have some good points but the examples of players you use to make your points are pretty bad. 1st complaining saying you'd rather have Carimi than a guy we just drafted to be our kicker now & well into the future & then calling Mason Crosby, who has a Super Bowl ring a disappointment make your good points look less valid.

? Mason Crosby has been a disappointment. His FG % is 29th among active kickers (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fg_perc_active.htm). He's only made it into the top 20 in that category once in his career (2011).

The man has a cannon leg but he's been horribly inaccurate his whole time in the league.

[SpikedLemonade]

The truth is Kickers bounce around from team to team before latching on a team that needs one. I mean let's not forget we got Lindell as a RFA from the Seahawks but because he was undrafted didn't give up anything for him. Also. the Bills drafted a K (John Potter) in 2011 to me we're wasting late picks. Sure are track record hasn't been good but to me you can always find a kicker.

Drafting kickers is ******ed.

[Mace]

Drafting kickers is ******ed.

How are you, Spiked ?

[cookie G]

Yet you have TONS of fans crying about how the Bills picked a kicker in the 6th round this year...even despite the fact that kickers are the highest scoring players in the league.

Gotta figure that the Bears had good reasons to get rid of the guy, unless they are incompetent.

I thought we should have kept Ritchie Incognito back whenever that happened.

Not me, I really don't get upset over 6th round picks, except 1) When we get a 6th round pick for a starter and people say "Well, at least we got something for him" and 2) when they wait until the 6th round to draft an OL an people say, "oh good, we addressed the OL."

[Mace]

Not me, I really don't get upset over 6th round picks, except 1) When we get a 6th round pick for a starter and people say "Well, at least we got something for him" and 2) when they wait until the 6th round to draft an OL an people say, "oh good, we addressed the OL."

You do too.

[cookie G]

You do too.

OK, no. 3) when they've used their 6th round pick for their 4th db in the draft.

[Albany,n.y.]

Drafting kickers is ******ed.

It sure wasn't for the Rams & Vikings last year, or, hopefully, the Bills this year. Drafting kickers early doesn't make a lot of sense, but in the 6th round, it is the smartest thing a team can do if they have a need. A good kicker can mean the difference between the playoffs and no playoffs. A great kicker can kick the winning field goal in the Super Bowl. I'd rather draft a kicker in round 6 who has a very good chance of making the team this season & years to come than the bums the Bills have been drafting when they go position player in round 6.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It sure wasn't for the Rams & Vikings last year, or, hopefully, the Bills this year. Drafting kickers early doesn't make a lot of sense, but in the 6th round, it is the smartest thing a team can do if they have a need. A good kicker can mean the difference between the playoffs and no playoffs. A great kicker can kick the winning field goal in the Super Bowl. I'd rather draft a kicker in round 6 who has a very good chance of making the team this season & years to come than the bums the Bills have been drafting when they go position player in round 6.

Having a good kicker is very important. That doesn't mean you need to draft one to get it, nor that one you draft is guaranteed to succeed.

[better days]

John Clayton reported the Bears traded Carimi because Carimi did not report to any offseason OTA's because the Bears wanted to move him to guard & he wanted to stay at tackle.

[swiper]

John Clayton reported the Bears traded Carimi because Carimi did not report to any offseason OTA's because the Bears wanted to move him to guard & he wanted to stay at tackle.

So this kind of dispells the "bust" theorists here.

[Bill Cody]

Kickers fail in the NFL all the time, what are you talking about? Mason Crosby was an All-American college kicker and he's been a serious disappointment for the Packers. Mike Nugent was one of the most decorated college kickers ever, and he's on his fourth team. He probably only signed with that fourth team (Cincy) because he's still got supporters in Ohio.

The goalposts may be the same, but pro kickers have to kick longer field goals (most college coaches won't even attempt 50+ yarders if they don't have to), have to kick later in the year in substantially worse weather, and they have to kick over taller, more athletic players.

If he's good it will be worth the pick. If he isn't it won't be.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If he's good it will be worth the pick. If he isn't it won't be.

Isn't that true of every pick?

[Bill Cody]

Isn't that true of every pick?

Glad you agree. That includes kickers of course.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Glad you agree. That includes kickers of course.

...ok? So?