Buddy Nix Legacy

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The definitive answer cannot be made until 2 years down the road, but I will say this.

He is a football man at the helm.

Even since John Butler left town, we had an administrator who's cannot judge football talent as GM, then a former coach who's 10 year agay from the game and never scouted, and then no one at the helm for 10 years. Finally Nix, who is a scout through and through, reclaimed the GM title. That in itself is a step in right direction in my opinion. Now Whaley continued that trend.

Personally, I liked Nix's re-introduction of size back to the Bills. You can argue whether he's great talent evaluator or not - everything is comparative, I'd say the Steelers have drafted better the last 3 years in later rounds, but we no longer looking for undersized guys, small schools, aiming to hit a I'm-smarter-than-you-guys kind of picks. Just be pragmatic. To that end, I understand his lack of QB selection. Everyone points out him missing Wilson. There is luck involved. I don't know how many Wilson type of QB failed before Seattle got one right. Every time I saw the lottory number, I always thought I could've selected those numbers as well.

[Bill Cody]

Manuel will make or break Buddy's legacy here

[OpIv37]

The definitive answer cannot be made until 2 years down the road, but I will say this.

He is a football man at the helm.

Even since John Butler left town, we had an administrator who's cannot judge football talent as GM, then a former coach who's 10 year agay from the game and never scouted, and then no one at the helm for 10 years. Finally Nix, who is a scout through and through, reclaimed the GM title. That in itself is a step in right direction in my opinion. Now Whaley continued that trend.

Personally, I liked Nix's re-introduction of size back to the Bills. You can argue whether he's great talent evaluator or not - everything is comparative, I'd say the Steelers have drafted better the last 3 years in later rounds, but we no longer looking for undersized guys, small schools, aiming to hit a I'm-smarter-than-you-guys kind of picks. Just be pragmatic. To that end, I understand his lack of QB selection. Everyone points out him missing Wilson. There is luck involved. I don't know how many Wilson type of QB failed before Seattle got one right. Every time I saw the lottory number, I always thought I could've selected those numbers as well.

Can we please stop with calling the draft a "crapshoot" or comparing it to the lotto? Lotto is completely random. People like Nix get paid big bucks to evaluate talent. They watch how these guys play in college and look to see if they have the factors that make them most likely to succeed in the NFL, based on years and years of data. They have staffs working under them to help them. Sure, occasionally you get a Mike Williams in the first round or a Tom Brady in the 6th, but usually the teams that do their homework correctly, they draft well.

If the draft was truly a lotto, the results would be much more even over time. Instead, there are some people who are consistently good at it and others who are consistently bad. That's not luck or randomness like the lotto. There is a skill to it.

[OpIv37]

Manuel will make or break Buddy's legacy here

Nix's legacy is already broken. He hired a coaching staff that got fired after 3 straight losing seasons. He gave Fitz a huge contract then cut him a year and a half later, giving us $10 million in dead cap. He spent a ton of money on a DL that did nothing. He had a good track record of retaining players, but then he let Levitre walk and failed to lock up Byrd, who will most likely either be traded or will walk when he becomes UFA.

If Manuel is a success, it'll merely prevent Nix's legacy from being a complete disaster.

[better days]

Can we please stop with calling the draft a "crapshoot" or comparing it to the lotto? Lotto is completely random. People like Nix get paid big bucks to evaluate talent. They watch how these guys play in college and look to see if they have the factors that make them most likely to succeed in the NFL, based on years and years of data. They have staffs working under them to help them. Sure, occasionally you get a Mike Williams in the first round or a Tom Brady in the 6th, but usually the teams that do their homework correctly, they draft well.

If the draft was truly a lotto, the results would be much more even over time. Instead, there are some people who are consistently good at it and others who are consistently bad. That's not luck or randomness like the lotto. There is a skill to it.

I agree, the draft is not like a crapshoot or the lotto. It is more like poker or blackjack. Luck is involved but so is skill.

And LUCK is a big part of the draft, so don't try to pass it off as all skill.

[Bill Cody]

Nix's legacy is already broken. He hired a coaching staff that got fired after 3 straight losing seasons. He gave Fitz a huge contract then cut him a year and a half later, giving us $10 million in dead cap. He spent a ton of money on a DL that did nothing. He had a good track record of retaining players, but then he let Levitre walk and failed to lock up Byrd, who will most likely either be traded or will walk when he becomes UFA.

If Manuel is a success, it'll merely prevent Nix's legacy from being a complete disaster.

I really doubt Nix had any serious illusions that one day there would be busts of Gailey or Fitz in Canton. It's silly to blame the fact that noone wanted to coach here on Nix. Or that he inherited a team with no QB. He gets a mulligan on the coach. Fitz? They needed someone to take the snaps, no? Despite the contract I never got the felling they were ever married to Fitz. So if he hits on Marrone and Manuel he will have accomplished a lot. Because if you have a good coach and you have a good QB you'll have an easier time retaining and attracting free agents.

[OpIv37]

I really doubt Nix had any serious illusions that one day there would be busts of Gailey or Fitz in Canton. It's silly to blame the fact that noone wanted to coach here on Nix. Or that he inherited a team with no QB. He gets a mulligan on the coach. Fitz? They needed someone to take the snaps, no? Despite the contract I never got the felling they were ever married to Fitz. So if he hits on Marrone and Manuel he will have accomplished a lot. Because if you have a good coach and you have a good QB you'll have an easier time retaining and attracting free agents.
well not finding a HOF coach who wants to come to Buffalo is no excuse for hiring someone as bad as Gailey. There's a reasonable medium between the two. And I didn't expect him to find the next Jim Kelly, but he also didn't have to give Fitz that stupid contract. We could have had him for less or had someone equally mediocre for less.

[SpikedLemonade]

Nix's legacy is that when he was not a NFL GM by 70 years old, it was a sign that he never should have been.

Only in Buffalo.

[better days]

Nix's legacy is that when he was not a NFL GM by 70 years old, it was a sign that he never should have been.

Only in Buffalo.

Well, he was responsible for hiring Whaley & training him. I think that will be his legacy however that turns out along with the drafting of EJ. There have been more than a few people that found SUCCESS later in life.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Nix legacy IMO:

3 years
2 radical defensive shifts
16 wins
1294 points surrendered

[better days]

Nix legacy IMO:

3 years
2 radical defensive shifts
16 wins
1294 points surrendered

Well, those are the results thus far. We will see where it goes from here.

[swiper]

Nix legacy IMO:

3 years
2 radical defensive shifts
16 wins
1294 points surrendered

And no franchise QB.

[SpikedLemonade]

Well, he was responsible for hiring Whaley & training him.

Train him to do a job that Nix only had 3 months doing?

[OpIv37]

Well, those are the results thus far. We will see where it goes from here.

There is absolutely no excuse for being so piss-poor in the 3rd year of rebuilding.

[better days]

There is absolutely no excuse for being so piss-poor in the 3rd year of rebuilding.

Yeah there is when the team has SUCKED for the previous 10 years before he was hired. It is not like the Bills only lacked a couple pieces when Nix was hired. He had to empty the cupboards of all the rotten CRAP & restock the shelves. Look where the Lions are today, the Browns, the Cardinals, the Raiders.

If Whaley, Marrone & Manuel pan out, people will have Nix to thank.

[OpIv37]

Yeah there is when the team has SUCKED for the previous 10 years before he was hired. It is not like the Bills only lacked a couple pieces when Nix was hired. He had to empty the cupboards of all the rotten CRAP & restock the shelves. Look where the Lions are today, the Browns, the Cardinals, the Raiders.

If Whaley, Marrone & Manuel pan out, people will have Nix to thank.
Three years is the standard rebuilding time in the NFL. Plenty of teams have done it with cupboards that were just as bare as the Bills', if not more so.

I'm not saying they should have won the SB, but they should have at least been in the playoff hunt.

[better days]

Three years is the standard rebuilding time in the NFL. Plenty of teams have done it with cupboards that were just as bare as the Bills', if not more so.

I'm not saying they should have won the SB, but they should have at least been in the playoff hunt.

Teams like the Jets did it, but it was a SHORT term fix that could not be sustained because of the Cap. The Jets overpaid a bunch of FA players & are now in cap hell as the Fins will soon be.

If the new Bills players pan out, this team should be together a while.

[GvilleBills]

Nix's most egregious error was the faith he had in Gailey. Fitz and Wanny are sprung directly from that.

He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't the douchebag the haters try to make him out to be. His legacy will continue to be written through Whaley, Marrone, and Manuel.

[justasportsfan]

Nix's legacy is already broken. He hired a coaching staff that got fired after 3 straight losing seasons. He gave Fitz a huge contract then cut him a year and a half later, giving us $10 million in dead cap. He spent a ton of money on a DL that did nothing. He had a good track record of retaining players, but then he let Levitre walk and failed to lock up Byrd, who will most likely either be traded or will walk when he becomes UFA.

If Manuel is a success, it'll merely prevent Nix's legacy from being a complete disaster.

whatever happens under Whaley will be part of Nix's legacy.Nix handpicked Whaley and groomed him to be his successor

[Luisito23]

Nix's most egregious error was the faith he had in Gailey. Fitz and Wanny are sprung directly from that.

He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't the douchebag the haters try to make him out to be.


Good post, exactly how I feel.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

if ej is a franchise qb, nix will should go on the bills wof. if not, he will just be forgotten in history. but if, if ej works out, he has put solid pieces and young ones around him to have great success. 1- massive good oline. 3 major pass rushers in Mario, dareus, Carrington. solid secondary players to build with Gilmore, brooks, searcy, ( Williams at s), duke, rogers, young athletic talent at lb, bradham, moats, Alonso, white, franchise lt in glenn, resigning stevie, and drafting serious talent at wr, ( that will only flourish if ej does of course). and the cj pick, who might be the most explosive playmaker in the nfl. 95% of building a team is getting the qb, and a few big time pass rushers. then you fill in with athletes. nix has done all that, above and beyond. but it all hinges on ej

[NOT THE DUDE...]

bills fans wont admit this, but its this simple. if chan gailey had a franchise qb here, then he would still be here, and we would have won 10-11 games. ( with the way fitz played in 2010, and the 1st half of 2011), I cant really blame nix too much for not thinking he could have been damn good. I mean, after the pats game I thought he could be another kurt warner. he was playing that good. so like I said, it all hinges on ej manuel and the investment they put around him the next couple years

[SpikedLemonade]

Dude, I hope this team is as good as you think it is.

The objective NFL watching world doesn't.

[trapezeus]

massive solid oline? the one they are slowly letting go to start over because the coaches have changed?

at some point the dude, you have to compare what hte bills are doing against the teams they are playing. and their ol sucks. their DL is under performing. they have no linebackers. a gigantic question mark at qb. Young wr.

They are staring at barely being a .300 team. If you are so confident about the bills like all your posts, you should put a bet on the bills.

[JoeMama]

There's still one more chance for the old man to be remembered fondly in Buffalo.

Like everybody's been saying, tt boils down to EJ Manuel. If Manny can loosen the shackles placed on him by Jimbo Fisher and reach his potential, don't be shocked if Bills fandom smile on Buddy Nix retroactively.

It's not like Nix has been a bad evaluator in the first round (the 2nd and 3rd are where he bombs out). Guys like CJ Spiller, Marcell Dareus, and Stephon Gilmore will make B-Lo proud when it's all said and done. I'm sure of that.

I'm a sentimental Bills fan, so I want EJ Manuel on that list too. ASAP.

[Ginger Vitis]

if ej is a franchise qb, nix will should go on the bills wof.
No drafting a franchise QB is nowhere near enough to get Nix on the Wall of Fame.. Buddy Nix on the WOF is just downright laughable

[bf1]

Nix's legacy? 16-32

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I hate to bring it up here but here it goes.

As far as positional players goes, I believe Nix is right up there. Ozzie Newsome is universally recognized as the best in the business. Look at his draft record 2010 - 2012. How much it compares to Buddy Nix's?

The one thing about Nix that people may have an argument on is QB. Still, look all the QB being drafted iver that time span:

2010 1 1 STL Sam Bradford QB 2012 0 0 3 20 42 873 1498 9378 45 34 82 216 2 Oklahoma
2010 1 25 DEN Tim Tebow QB 2012 0 0 1 12 35 173 361 2422 17 9 197 989 12 Florida
2010 2 48 CAR Jimmy Clausen QB 2012 0 0 1 0 13 157 299 1558 3 9 23 57 0 Notre Dame
2010 3 85 CLE Colt McCoy QB 2012 0 0 2 10 24 409 702 4388 21 20 93 363 1 2 8 0 Texas
2010 4 122 PHI Mike Kafka QB 2011 0 0 0 0 4 11 16 107 0 2 3 0 0 Northwestern
2010 5 155 ARI John Skelton QB 2012 0 0 0 5 20 320 602 3707 15 25 42 182 0 Fordham
2010 5 168 SDG Jonathan Crompton QB 2011 0 0 0 0 0 Tennessee
2010 6 176 TEN Rusty Smith QB 2012 0 0 0 1 4 23 45 234 0 4 Florida Atlantic
2010 6 181 CHI Dan LeFevour QB 2011 0 0 0 0 0 Central Michigan
2010 6 204 CAR Tony Pike QB 2010 0 0 0 0 1 6 12 47 0 0 Cincinnati
2010 7 209 BUF Levi Brown QB 2010 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 24 0 1 Troy
2010 7 239 NOR Sean Canfield QB 0 0 0 Oregon St.
2010 7 250 NWE Zac Robinson QB 2012 0 0 0 0 0 Oklahoma St.

The Bills had no chance on Sam Bradford or Tebow. Do you want anyone else on the list (not that Tebow mattered).

2011 1 1 CAR Cam Newton QB 2012 0 1 2 33 32 590 1002 7920 40 29 253 1447 22 1 33 0 Auburn
2011 1 8 TEN Jake Locker QB 2012 0 0 1 8 16 211 380 2718 14 11 49 347 2 Washington
2011 1 10 JAX Blaine Gabbert QB 2012 0 0 2 7 25 372 691 3876 21 17 66 154 0 Missouri
2011 1 12 MIN Christian Ponder QB 2012 0 0 2 16 27 458 774 4788 31 25 88 472 2 1 -15 0 Florida St.
2011 2 35 CIN Andy Dalton QB 2012 0 1 2 23 32 629 1044 7067 47 29 84 272 5 TCU
2011 2 36 SFO Colin Kaepernick QB 2012 0 0 0 9 16 139 223 1849 10 3 65 413 5 Nevada-Reno
2011 3 74 NWE Ryan Mallett QB 2012 0 0 0 0 4 1 4 17 0 1 8 -9 0 Arkansas
2011 5 135 KAN Ricky Stanzi QB 2012 0 0 0 0 0 Iowa
2011 5 152 HOU T.J. Yates QB 2012 0 0 0 3 10 86 144 987 3 4 16 56 1 North Carolina
2011 5 160 CHI Nathan Enderle QB 2011 0 0 0 0 0 Col. of Idaho
2011 6 180 BAL Tyrod Taylor QB 2012 0 0 0 1 9 18 30 197 0 1 15 75 1 Virginia Tech
2011 7 208 NYJ Greg McElroy QB 2012 0 0 0 1 2 19 31 214 1 1 8 30 0 Alabama

Look at it today, would you take Locker/Gabbert/Ponder, over Dareus? The thing that Nix made a mistake is not accessing the market right and not taking one of the Dalton/Kaepernick/Mallett as development QB for the team when he had the chance. I suspect however, Gailey had to play a big role there. Dalton looked to be a younger Fitz not much arm improvement long term. Ponder is reported the guy they really liked. But I'd blame Nix for not take a swing and pick the one with franchise potential as he has a chance to sit around for a year while Fitz finishing his contract then. To me, this is a short coming of Nix being a 1st time GM: he later admitted that you have to take a QB a round earlier than your grade. Guys like Donahoe would know this long time ago.


2012 1 1 IND Andrew Luck QB 2012 0 0 1 13 16 339 627 4374 23 18 62 255 5 Stanford
2012 1 2 WAS Robert Griffin III QB 2012 0 1 1 18 15 258 393 3200 20 5 120 815 7 Baylor
2012 1 8 MIA Ryan Tannehill QB 2012 0 0 1 10 16 282 484 3294 12 13 49 211 2 Texas A&M
2012 1 22 CLE Brandon Weeden QB 2012 0 0 1 8 15 297 517 3385 14 17 27 111 0 Oklahoma St.
2012 2 57 DEN Brock Osweiler QB 2012 0 0 0 0 5 2 4 12 0 0 8 -13 0 Arizona St.
2012 3 75 SEA Russell Wilson QB 2012 0 0 1 16 16 252 393 3118 26 10 94 489 4 Wisconsin
2012 3 88 PHI Nick Foles QB 2012 0 0 0 4 7 161 265 1699 6 5 11 42 1 Arizona
2012 4 102 WAS Kirk Cousins QB 2012 0 0 0 2 3 33 48 466 4 3 3 22 0 Michigan St.
2012 6 185 ARI Ryan Lindley QB 2012 0 0 0 -4 7 89 171 752 0 7 4 7 0 San Diego St.
2012 7 243 GNB B.J. Coleman QB 2012 0 0 0 0 Tenn-Chattanooga
2012 7 253 IND Chandler Harnish QB 2012 0 0 0 0 Northern Illinois

The Bills had no chance on Luck, RGIII, Tannehill. The one they missed is Wilson who is not a proto-type QB in Nix's world. I myself truly not blaming him for this pick. For one successful Wilson (yet to prove long term), there are 10 failures in NFL history.

Overall, I'd say Nix is a sound failure at drafting QB; otherwise anyone who failed to draft Brady given 5 or 6 chances should be deemed a failure. The biggest failure for Nix is picking Gailey as the HC. It is clear Gailey has no interest in defense nor finding people to run defense, and his idea of content with average QB resulting bad contract and influence the draft priorities. It could very well be true that no one worth any salt wanted the Bills HC then and Nix had to settle with Gailey; but for the good of the Bills, he should've acted sooner on Gailey instead of merely getting rid of his defensive coordinator.

[Bill Cody]

well not finding a HOF coach who wants to come to Buffalo is no excuse for hiring someone as bad as Gailey. There's a reasonable medium between the two. And I didn't expect him to find the next Jim Kelly, but he also didn't have to give Fitz that stupid contract. We could have had him for less or had someone equally mediocre for less.

I don't think there was much interest in the coaching job and this time they were willing to pay for a big name like Cowher or Shanahan. It really isn't surpising. No QB. A roster totally lacking in stars or depth. A senile meddling owner that could kick at any time and the team would be sold and possibly moved. As for the Fitz contract it was really not that bad for a starting QB, even a below average one, look at the salaries for QB's around the league. And it didn't stop Nix from looking hard at Cam Newton last year and drafting Manuel this year. Anyway I really don't care about the past at this point, you want to pin a lot of crap that had built up over a long time frame on Nix be my guest. The "3 year rule" on rebuilding doesn't apply to a place like Buffalo that few free agents want to come to, especially with a mediocre at best coach, think about it. In any case if Marrone and Manuel are hits that gives us a lot of hope going forward. I assume we can agree on that, yes?

[EDS]

I hate to bring it up here but here it goes.

As far as positional players goes, I believe Nix is right up there. Ozzie Newsome is universally recognized as the best in the business. Look at his draft record 2010 - 2012. How much it compares to Buddy Nix's?

The one thing about Nix that people may have an argument on is QB. Still, look all the QB being drafted iver that time span:

2010 1 1 STL Sam Bradford QB 2012 0 0 3 20 42 873 1498 9378 45 34 82 216 2 Oklahoma
2010 1 25 DEN Tim Tebow QB 2012 0 0 1 12 35 173 361 2422 17 9 197 989 12 Florida
2010 2 48 CAR Jimmy Clausen QB 2012 0 0 1 0 13 157 299 1558 3 9 23 57 0 Notre Dame
2010 3 85 CLE Colt McCoy QB 2012 0 0 2 10 24 409 702 4388 21 20 93 363 1 2 8 0 Texas
2010 4 122 PHI Mike Kafka QB 2011 0 0 0 0 4 11 16 107 0 2 3 0 0 Northwestern
2010 5 155 ARI John Skelton QB 2012 0 0 0 5 20 320 602 3707 15 25 42 182 0 Fordham
2010 5 168 SDG Jonathan Crompton QB 2011 0 0 0 0 0 Tennessee
2010 6 176 TEN Rusty Smith QB 2012 0 0 0 1 4 23 45 234 0 4 Florida Atlantic
2010 6 181 CHI Dan LeFevour QB 2011 0 0 0 0 0 Central Michigan
2010 6 204 CAR Tony Pike QB 2010 0 0 0 0 1 6 12 47 0 0 Cincinnati
2010 7 209 BUF Levi Brown QB 2010 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 24 0 1 Troy
2010 7 239 NOR Sean Canfield QB 0 0 0 Oregon St.
2010 7 250 NWE Zac Robinson QB 2012 0 0 0 0 0 Oklahoma St.

The Bills had no chance on Sam Bradford or Tebow. Do you want anyone else on the list (not that Tebow mattered).

2011 1 1 CAR Cam Newton QB 2012 0 1 2 33 32 590 1002 7920 40 29 253 1447 22 1 33 0 Auburn
2011 1 8 TEN Jake Locker QB 2012 0 0 1 8 16 211 380 2718 14 11 49 347 2 Washington
2011 1 10 JAX Blaine Gabbert QB 2012 0 0 2 7 25 372 691 3876 21 17 66 154 0 Missouri
2011 1 12 MIN Christian Ponder QB 2012 0 0 2 16 27 458 774 4788 31 25 88 472 2 1 -15 0 Florida St.
2011 2 35 CIN Andy Dalton QB 2012 0 1 2 23 32 629 1044 7067 47 29 84 272 5 TCU
2011 2 36 SFO Colin Kaepernick QB 2012 0 0 0 9 16 139 223 1849 10 3 65 413 5 Nevada-Reno
2011 3 74 NWE Ryan Mallett QB 2012 0 0 0 0 4 1 4 17 0 1 8 -9 0 Arkansas
2011 5 135 KAN Ricky Stanzi QB 2012 0 0 0 0 0 Iowa
2011 5 152 HOU T.J. Yates QB 2012 0 0 0 3 10 86 144 987 3 4 16 56 1 North Carolina
2011 5 160 CHI Nathan Enderle QB 2011 0 0 0 0 0 Col. of Idaho
2011 6 180 BAL Tyrod Taylor QB 2012 0 0 0 1 9 18 30 197 0 1 15 75 1 Virginia Tech
2011 7 208 NYJ Greg McElroy QB 2012 0 0 0 1 2 19 31 214 1 1 8 30 0 Alabama

Look at it today, would you take Locker/Gabbert/Ponder, over Dareus? The thing that Nix made a mistake is not accessing the market right and not taking one of the Dalton/Kaepernick/Mallett as development QB for the team when he had the chance. I suspect however, Gailey had to play a big role there. Dalton looked to be a younger Fitz not much arm improvement long term. Ponder is reported the guy they really liked. But I'd blame Nix for not take a swing and pick the one with franchise potential as he has a chance to sit around for a year while Fitz finishing his contract then. To me, this is a short coming of Nix being a 1st time GM: he later admitted that you have to take a QB a round earlier than your grade. Guys like Donahoe would know this long time ago.


2012 1 1 IND Andrew Luck QB 2012 0 0 1 13 16 339 627 4374 23 18 62 255 5 Stanford
2012 1 2 WAS Robert Griffin III QB 2012 0 1 1 18 15 258 393 3200 20 5 120 815 7 Baylor
2012 1 8 MIA Ryan Tannehill QB 2012 0 0 1 10 16 282 484 3294 12 13 49 211 2 Texas A&M
2012 1 22 CLE Brandon Weeden QB 2012 0 0 1 8 15 297 517 3385 14 17 27 111 0 Oklahoma St.
2012 2 57 DEN Brock Osweiler QB 2012 0 0 0 0 5 2 4 12 0 0 8 -13 0 Arizona St.
2012 3 75 SEA Russell Wilson QB 2012 0 0 1 16 16 252 393 3118 26 10 94 489 4 Wisconsin
2012 3 88 PHI Nick Foles QB 2012 0 0 0 4 7 161 265 1699 6 5 11 42 1 Arizona
2012 4 102 WAS Kirk Cousins QB 2012 0 0 0 2 3 33 48 466 4 3 3 22 0 Michigan St.
2012 6 185 ARI Ryan Lindley QB 2012 0 0 0 -4 7 89 171 752 0 7 4 7 0 San Diego St.
2012 7 243 GNB B.J. Coleman QB 2012 0 0 0 0 Tenn-Chattanooga
2012 7 253 IND Chandler Harnish QB 2012 0 0 0 0 Northern Illinois

The Bills had no chance on Luck, RGIII, Tannehill. The one they missed is Wilson who is not a proto-type QB in Nix's world. I myself truly not blaming him for this pick. For one successful Wilson (yet to prove long term), there are 10 failures in NFL history.

Overall, I'd say Nix is a sound failure at drafting QB; otherwise anyone who failed to draft Brady given 5 or 6 chances should be deemed a failure. The biggest failure for Nix is picking Gailey as the HC. It is clear Gailey has no interest in defense nor finding people to run defense, and his idea of content with average QB resulting bad contract and influence the draft priorities. It could very well be true that no one worth any salt wanted the Bills HC then and Nix had to settle with Gailey; but for the good of the Bills, he should've acted sooner on Gailey instead of merely getting rid of his defensive coordinator.

Buddy had a huge glaring need at QB from day 1 on the job and did nothing to even attempt to solve that problem for three years. Given that we all know the NFL has been a QB driven league for over a decade, that is indefensible.

In addition, I am not sure how you can compare Buddy's three year draft record to Ozzie's either, given that Ozzie (i) drafted much later than Buddy and (ii) was drafting for a veteran team that was looking to win a super bowl (which obviously puts some player development in the background in favor of current production). Oh, and he actual did meet his #1 goal, and the #1 goal of any GM in the league - building a Super Bowl winning team!

[better days]

Buddy had a huge glaring need at QB from day 1 on the job and did nothing to even attempt to solve that problem for three years. Given that we all know the NFL has been a QB driven league for over a decade, that is indefensible.

In addition, I am not sure how you can compare Buddy's three year draft record to Ozzie's either, given that Ozzie (i) drafted much later than Buddy and (ii) was drafting for a veteran team that was looking to win a super bowl (which obviously puts some player development in the background in favor of current production). Oh, and he actual did meet his #1 goal, and the #1 goal of any GM in the league - building a Super Bowl winning team!

Well, which QB would you have had the Bills draft aside from Kaepernick or Wilson? And if the Bills did draft a QB before they would hve been either ruined or out of contract before this team had enough talent to win.

EJ is coming into a GOOD situation.

[Bill Cody]

Buddy had a huge glaring need at QB from day 1 on the job and did nothing to even attempt to solve that problem for three years. Given that we all know the NFL has been a QB driven league for over a decade, that is indefensible.

Pretty sure he was aware of the issue. He missed on Kaepernick and Wilson but so did a lot of other GM's. The others? I'm glad he passed, aren't you? If Manuel hits he gets a big old hall pass IMHO.

[OpIv37]

I don't think there was much interest in the coaching job and this time they were willing to pay for a big name like Cowher or Shanahan. It really isn't surpising. No QB. A roster totally lacking in stars or depth. A senile meddling owner that could kick at any time and the team would be sold and possibly moved. As for the Fitz contract it was really not that bad for a starting QB, even a below average one, look at the salaries for QB's around the league. And it didn't stop Nix from looking hard at Cam Newton last year and drafting Manuel this year. Anyway I really don't care about the past at this point, you want to pin a lot of crap that had built up over a long time frame on Nix be my guest. The "3 year rule" on rebuilding doesn't apply to a place like Buffalo that few free agents want to come to, especially with a mediocre at best coach, think about it. In any case if Marrone and Manuel are hits that gives us a lot of hope going forward. I assume we can agree on that, yes?
I'll agree with the last part. I'm in the "cautiously optimistic" camp as far as the long term is concerned.

But, regardless if Manuel and Marrone end up in the HOF or if they completely suck and are in the unemployment line 3 years from now, I think this season is shot. It's a rebuilding year- too much change, too little talent. A necessary evil.

[Bill Cody]

I'll agree with the last part. I'm in the "cautiously optimistic" camp as far as the long term is concerned.

But, regardless if Manuel and Marrone end up in the HOF or if they completely suck and are in the unemployment line 3 years from now, I think this season is shot. It's a rebuilding year- too much change, too little talent. A necessary evil.

Rebuilding yes shot no. This could be the most exciting 7-9 season in Bills history. If Manuel plays and shows promise, even if he throws away some games with mistakes of inexperience, it will be very cool. It's like following a treasure map vs just randomly panning for gold. If the map is real you don't have to be at the mine to be pretty damn excited.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I'll agree with the last part. I'm in the "cautiously optimistic" camp as far as the long term is concerned.

But, regardless if Manuel and Marrone end up in the HOF or if they completely suck and are in the unemployment line 3 years from now, I think this season is shot. It's a rebuilding year- too much change, too little talent. A necessary evil.


In general, I agree - too much change, even with great individual pieces (see the Miami Heat 2010-2011 season, Toronto Blue Jays this season). But Football has something different called QB who's so vital to the team taht no other one player in other sports can rival. If the Bills start Kolb who in my opinion is better than Fitz and capable a stretch of good games, they might surpprise some people.

The D has talents -- I'm not talking about potential but proven talents which give greater hope that they can play up to their talents. But it comes down to the QB play. Can Kolb do what Pennington did for Miami 2008? Of course Pennington was a much better QB than Kolb has been, but the 2012 Bills were not even close to as bad as the 2007 1-15 Dolphins, either.

[OpIv37]

In general, I agree - too much change, even with great individual pieces (see the Miami Heat 2010-2011 season, Toronto Blue Jays this season). But Football has something different called QB who's so vital to the team taht no other one player in other sports can rival. If the Bills start Kolb who in my opinion is better than Fitz and capable a stretch of good games, they might surpprise some people.

The D has talents -- I'm not talking about potential but proven talents which give greater hope that they can play up to their talents. But it comes down to the QB play. Can Kolb do what Pennington did for Miami 2008? Of course Pennington was a much better QB than Kolb has been, but the 2012 Bills were not even close to as bad as the 2007 1-15 Dolphins, either.

Well, I don't believe Kolb is good enough to get us to the playoffs, but hopefully I'm wrong.

If he can get us to the playoffs, then I'm fine sitting Manuel. Here's what can't happen, though: we can't go 7-9 or 8-8 under Kolb. I'd rather go 3-13 with Manuel starting half the season and taking his lumps and have a better draft pick than return to Jauron-era mediocrity. We either need a real shot at playoffs or we need training camp for 2014. No more half-assing it.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Well, I don't believe Kolb is good enough to get us to the playoffs, but hopefully I'm wrong.

If he can get us to the playoffs, then I'm fine sitting Manuel. Here's what can't happen, though: we can't go 7-9 or 8-8 under Kolb. I'd rather go 3-13 with Manuel starting half the season and taking his lumps and have a better draft pick than return to Jauron-era mediocrity. We either need a real shot at playoffs or we need training camp for 2014. No more half-assing it.

Well you know this is going to happen - 4 of first 7 games the Bills are at home and have legit chances against the the Panthers, Jets, Browns, maybe Bengels at home, and the Dolphins. May even play the Pats tough for a home opener. Say Kolb plays well in a system similar to his college days. Then boom, he gets hurt - inevitable - and the Bills also need to face the likes of Saints, Steelers, Falcons, Bucs etc. 6 - 10 we go. Middle of the pack again.

[better days]

Well, I don't believe Kolb is good enough to get us to the playoffs, but hopefully I'm wrong.

If he can get us to the playoffs, then I'm fine sitting Manuel. Here's what can't happen, though: we can't go 7-9 or 8-8 under Kolb. I'd rather go 3-13 with Manuel starting half the season and taking his lumps and have a better draft pick than return to Jauron-era mediocrity. We either need a real shot at playoffs or we need training camp for 2014. No more half-assing it.

Well, 7-9 or 8-8 is only a matter of a few plays from 9-7 or 10-6. If the Bills are stilll in the hunt for a playoff spot into the begining of December, I think it will be a successsful season myself.

[EDS]

Pretty sure he was aware of the issue. He missed on Kaepernick and Wilson but so did a lot of other GM's. The others? I'm glad he passed, aren't you? If Manuel hits he gets a big old hall pass IMHO.

Am I happy Buddy passed on Dalton for Aaron Williams? No. Do most of the other QBs suck? Yes. Can you make an argument that he should have rolled the dice on a McCoy/Mallet/Osweiler/Cousins/Foles? Absolutely.

You cannot win in the NFL without a QB so to do nothing, via draft, trade and free agency for a three year period is neglect.

I am glad the organization finally took measures to address the deficiencies at the position. That said, there are plenty of question marks surrounding the individuals they have brought in so I am crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. Kevin Kolb has never thrown for 2000 yards or 10 touchdowns in a season. E.J. could be Blaine Gabbert or he could be Cam Newton. Jackson is a decent backup.

[better days]

Am I happy Buddy passed on Dalton for Aaron Williams? No. Do most of the other QBs suck? Yes. Can you make an argument that he should have rolled the dice on a McCoy/Mallet/Osweiler/Cousins/Foles? Absolutely.

You cannot win in the NFL without a QB so to do nothing, via draft, trade and free agency for a three year period is neglect.

I am glad the organization finally took measures to address the deficiencies at the position. That said, there are plenty of question marks surrounding the individuals they have brought in so I am crossing my fingers and hoping for the best. Kevin Kolb has never thrown for 2000 yards or 10 touchdowns in a season. E.J. could be Blaine Gabbert or he could be Cam Newton. Jackson is a decent backup.

Well, I can remember 3 years ago. The VAST MAJORITY of this board WANTED the Bills to draft the OL, DL etc. They did not want Nix to overdraft a QB then, just as MANY did not want the Bills to draft a QB in the first this year.

[BillsFever21]

Well, 7-9 or 8-8 is only a matter of a few plays from 9-7 or 10-6. If the Bills are stilll in the hunt for a playoff spot into the begining of December, I think it will be a successsful season myself.

It's also only a few plays away from being 5-11 or 6-10. It has to go both ways and not what sounds the best. At least a handful of games come down to making/not making a few plays. The good teams make them plays and win a few more games and the bad teams don't. Even last year we were a couple plays away in games from going either 4-12 or 8-8 depending on how they turned out.

Every team in the NFL can say the same thing. Even a 2-14 team can sit there and say they were a handful of plays away from winning 5+ games. As Bill Parcells said you are what your record is. I sit there every Sunday and said if we would've made this play or didn't give up this play then we would've won the game. I'm sure just about every fan of every team does. It all comes down to making them few plays that makes a huge difference between winning and losing.

[BillsFever21]

Well, I can remember 3 years ago. The VAST MAJORITY of this board WANTED the Bills to draft the OL, DL etc. They did not want Nix to overdraft a QB then, just as MANY did not want the Bills to draft a QB in the first this year.

Drafting a QB in the Top 10 like Blaine Gabbert, etc is called overdrafting a QB. Grabbing one of the decent prospects left in the 2nd+ round like Dalton, Kapernick instead of a heap of junk like Aaron Williams is a different story. Or even guys like Wilson, Cousins and others that were even later draft picks. Drafting a QB at the top of the second round isn't overdrafting a player. Using capital letters in every post doesn't make it any more truer.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

If Aaron Williams turned out to be Byrd, you'd sing a different tone. I stick to my theory that Nix learned the truth: QB should be rated a round earlier. That's probably how he viewed Kap (3rd or 4th), Wilson (4th). So now he's taking EJ Manuel 1st and guess what - so many are calling him reaching for it.

[BillsFever21]

If Aaron Williams turned out to be Byrd, you'd sing a different tone. I stick to my theory that Nix learned the truth: QB should be rated a round earlier. That's probably how he viewed Kap (3rd or 4th), Wilson (4th). So now he's taking EJ Manuel 1st and guess what - so many are calling him reaching for it.

He didn't and it was a horrible pick when we needed a QB in the first place. This was even before they "thought" that Fitz was the answer and gave him the absurd contract. Even if he would've ended up like Jairus Byrd it still would've been a bad pick when two good QB's were chosen immediately after him. The QB that we desperately had a need for was a more important then a CB.

He missed the boat on it and neglected the position for three years. Then he compounded it even worse by giving Fitzpatrick 20 million guaranteed after a good month of football. He screwed up and there isn't much more to say. You might as well admit it instead of making excuses for him.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I know for a fact that Aaron Williams was highly rated by the Steelers as a potential 1st rounder, like so many other teams. Byrd was highly rated during his draft. Both guys played corner in college and considered best as safeties (Williams happened to be a bit faster to be able to play corner). Both times the Bills had chance to move out the slot and they stayed and took the pick, and was soundly criticized. Byrd panned out. Williams didn't.

The circumstance needed to be considered. If your HC insisted that he had belief in Fitz, you wouldn't force the issue (or end up with Cowher/Donahoe like situation). Like I said, the biggest mistake Nix made was the hiring of Gailey. If you make a mistake there, it's hard to recover.

[EDS]

I know for a fact that Aaron Williams was highly rated by the Steelers as a potential 1st rounder, like so many other teams. Byrd was highly rated during his draft. Both guys played corner in college and considered best as safeties (Williams happened to be a bit faster to be able to play corner). Both times the Bills had chance to move out the slot and they stayed and took the pick, and was soundly criticized. Byrd panned out. Williams didn't.

The circumstance needed to be considered. If your HC insisted that he had belief in Fitz, you wouldn't force the issue (or end up with Cowher/Donahoe like situation). Like I said, the biggest mistake Nix made was the hiring of Gailey. If you make a mistake there, it's hard to recover.

The Steelers valued Williams so highly they PASSED on him in the first round. Even if you though Williams was a great prospect at safety, why would you draft a free safety in the second round when you have a guy like Byrd already on the roster who is only entering his third season? Makes no sense. Also makes no sense to draft a corner in the second round if you are not sure that guy can actually play corner. The fact that they had to draft Gilmore in the first round the next year confirmed how bad a pick it was.

Again, Buddy neglected to fix the huge QB problem for three straight off-seasons. How out of touch does he need to be to only pick up on the need for a QB in season four at the helm?

[better days]

It's also only a few plays away from being 5-11 or 6-10. It has to go both ways and not what sounds the best. At least a handful of games come down to making/not making a few plays. The good teams make them plays and win a few more games and the bad teams don't. Even last year we were a couple plays away in games from going either 4-12 or 8-8 depending on how they turned out.

Every team in the NFL can say the same thing. Even a 2-14 team can sit there and say they were a handful of plays away from winning 5+ games. As Bill Parcells said you are what your record is. I sit there every Sunday and said if we would've made this play or didn't give up this play then we would've won the game. I'm sure just about every fan of every team does. It all comes down to making them few plays that makes a huge difference between winning and losing.

I agree with you, it could go either way but with a talented team, you would hope that there were no more bad plays left & that you had reached bottom. I don't think people give coaching enough credit or blame for wins & losses.

His first year, I was happy with Chan's Coaching on offense. It was much more exciting to watch than what we saw under Jauron. On defense, he pretty much kept the Jauron defense intact.

His second year, I saw no improvement on offense & he tried to change the defense but it got worse if anything.

His third & last year, teams had already figured out Fitz could not throw the ball downfield which really limited what the offense could do & he turned the defense over to Wanny which was a TOTAL DISASTER.

I still think Nix has put a lot of talent on this team & they just need to be coached up in a GOOD system. I am hoping for the best with Marrone & Pettine. All the experts I hear talking about them do respect them, much more so than they did Chan.

[BillsFever21]

I agree with you, it could go either way but with a talented team, you would hope that there were no more bad plays left & that you had reached bottom. I don't think people give coaching enough credit or blame for wins & losses.

His first year, I was happy with Chan's Coaching on offense. It was much more exciting to watch than what we saw under Jauron. On defense, he pretty much kept the Jauron defense intact.

His second year, I saw no improvement on offense & he tried to change the defense but it got worse if anything.

His third & last year, teams had already figured out Fitz could not throw the ball downfield which really limited what the offense could do & he turned the defense over to Wanny which was a TOTAL DISASTER.

I still think Nix has put a lot of talent on this team & they just need to be coached up in a GOOD system. I am hoping for the best with Marrone & Pettine. All the experts I hear talking about them do respect them, much more so than they did Chan.

I've always had the mindset that the front office and coaching is the most important part of the team. We haven't had neither in years. The front office because they need to find the right players for the system at the right value and the coaching staff because that is the most important part of the team on gameday. A much advanced coach can own a lesser one during the game when it comes to strategy and adjustments.

A great coach can make a bad team an average team, an average team a playoff team and a playoff level team a SB contender. A bad coach can do the exact opposite. Obviously it takes talent but if you don't have the right coaching staff to tap into that talent and put the players in the best position to succeed then their talents will be wasted. The evidence is everywhere with most recently the 49ers as an example once they hired Jim Harbaugh.

I think Gailey's offense in his first year had more to do with how terrible our offense was the prior few years. It was just average by league standards but it was the first time in a few seasons that we actually had some good scoring games and was finally putting the ball in the EZ some. It was an illusion though because it couldn't continue or get better since it was all with short and quick passes where we got a lot of YAC. Once the defenses caught on to it then it regressed and they were unable to make adjustments.

It remains to be seen if Marrone will be the answer. For our sake I hope he is or it will be at least another few years until we can start thinking about improving the team.