Jason Peters skips Eagle's OTA

[DynaPaul]

Anybody still want him back?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/28/jason-peters-skips-tuesdays-ota/

On the same day that Eagles left tackle Jason Peters drew praise for his efforts to return from a torn Achilles’ tendon that derailed his 2012 season, Peters has thrown the Eagles a curve ball by skipping Tuesday’s OTA practice.

Via multiple Twitter accounts maintained by reporters covering the team, Peters isn’t present for practice.

“He’s just not here,” an Eagles spokesman told Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer.

[OpIv37]

He must be at the buffet with Dareus.

[Skooby]

He must be at the buffet with Dareus.

That buffet isn't going to eat itself.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

We couldn't have found room for a four time All-Pro on a team this talented and successful. Don't be silly.

[Jeff1220]

When a fifty piece puzzle is missing 11 pieces, it's not like the puzzle would be complete if you hadn't lost one of them. Peters was not the missing piece to the championship puzzle.

[Joe Fo Sho]

When a fifty piece puzzle is missing 11 pieces, it's not like the puzzle would be complete if you hadn't lost one of them. Peters was not the missing piece to the championship puzzle.

Which championship puzzle piece would he have prevented us from finding had we kept him? Mario?

[OpIv37]

When a fifty piece puzzle is missing 11 pieces, it's not like the puzzle would be complete if you hadn't lost one of them. Peters was not the missing piece to the championship puzzle.

By that logic, why bother signing Mario Williams? It still leaves us 10 pieces short.

[Goobylal]

Looks like Jason wants a new contract.

[better days]

We couldn't have found room for a four time All-Pro on a team this talented and successful. Don't be silly.

It was not that the Bills did not want Peters, it was that Peters did not want to be on the Bills. In retrospect, thank God for that. The Eagles gave up a lot both in draft picks to Buffalo & Money to Peters & what have they got to show in return?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It was not that the Bills did not want Peters, it was that Peters did not want to be on the Bills. In retrospect, thank God for that. The Eagles gave up a lot both in draft picks to Buffalo & Money to Peters & what have they got to show in return?

Three pro bowls and two all-pro appearances from their Left Tackle.

[Mr. Pink]

Why people are still up in arms that we didn't keep Peters baffles me.

He didn't want to be here anymore. Period.

[OpIv37]

Why people are still up in arms that we didn't keep Peters baffles me.

He didn't want to be here anymore. Period.

Because
A) it's part of the FO's job to make Buffalo a place where people want to play and
B) when players do leave, it's the FO's job to replace them with someone equal or better.

The FO failed on both counts here. And yes, I know, a lot of the people responsible are gone, but some are still here, mos notably Ralph and Russ.

This goes away when we find someone equal or better. Until then, losing Peters still hurts.

[The Jokeman]

Why people are still up in arms that we didn't keep Peters baffles me.

He didn't want to be here anymore. Period.

He didn't want to be here because he thinks the Bills were paying him on the cheap. As he signed a contract in 2006 under the guise he would be playing RT but midway through the season he got shifted to LT. Then in 2007 he started full time at LT. Then in 2008 in he started barking about a contract to play LT. The Bills bulked at his contract demands and that's why he didn't want to be here. Money plain and simple is what the issue was. I still argue we should have given his money.

[Mr. Pink]

He didn't want to be here because he thinks the Bills were paying him on the cheap. As he signed a contract in 2006 under the guise he would be playing RT but midway through the season he got shifted to LT. Then in 2007 he started full time at LT. Then in 2008 in he started barking about a contract to play LT. The Bills bulked at his contract demands and that's why he didn't want to be here. Money plain and simple is what the issue was. I still argue we should have given his money.

If memory serves me right he took either the same or less money to go to Philly.

So if that indeed is the case, that makes your entire argument invalid.

[Mr. Pink]

Because
A) it's part of the FO's job to make Buffalo a place where people want to play and
B) when players do leave, it's the FO's job to replace them with someone equal or better.

The FO failed on both counts here. And yes, I know, a lot of the people responsible are gone, but some are still here, mos notably Ralph and Russ.

This goes away when we find someone equal or better. Until then, losing Peters still hurts.

I don't think we've noticed a huge decline in play on the o-line since Peters left to be honest.

Did they replace Peters with another household name at LT? Obviously not. However if the line as a whole hasn't declined since his departure what's the difference?

[ServoBillieves]

I heard Mario Haggan skipped 4th meal even though he was RIGHT by a Taco Bell. I also heard Brad Butler skipped a PTA meeting.

He hasn't been a Bill for 5 years. GET OVER IT.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I heard Mario Haggan skipped 4th meal even though he was RIGHT by a Taco Bell. I also heard Brad Butler skipped a PTA meeting.

He hasn't been a Bill for 5 years. GET OVER IT.

Until we become a successful franchise, these decisions are going to continue to be discussed.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/DealWithIt/tumblr_lh6sayYpIJ1qzaxefo1_400.gif

[MikeInRoch]

He didn't want to be here because he thinks the Bills were paying him on the cheap. As he signed a contract in 2006 under the guise he would be playing RT but midway through the season he got shifted to LT. Then in 2007 he started full time at LT. Then in 2008 in he started barking about a contract to play LT. The Bills bulked at his contract demands and that's why he didn't want to be here. Money plain and simple is what the issue was. I still argue we should have given his money.

If you say "I probably whiffed on my block (which ended up getting my QB sacked, and causing a fumble which lost the game for my team) because I was thinking about the bonus I didn't get.", then GTFO my team.

[better days]

He didn't want to be here because he thinks the Bills were paying him on the cheap. As he signed a contract in 2006 under the guise he would be playing RT but midway through the season he got shifted to LT. Then in 2007 he started full time at LT. Then in 2008 in he started barking about a contract to play LT. The Bills bulked at his contract demands and that's why he didn't want to be here. Money plain and simple is what the issue was. I still argue we should have given his money.


It was reported the Bills offered Peters more money than the Eagles paid him. The Bills DEVELOPED him from an athletic person into a FOOTBALL player. Paying him on the cheap indeed. Like I said, I don't miss him one bit.

[better days]

Three pro bowls and two all-pro appearances from their Left Tackle.

One of those was as a Buffalo Bill. ENJOY THAT! Who cares about playoffs or Super Bowls? As long as Jason gets recognition all is GOOD.

[Yasgur's Farm]

If you say "I probably whiffed on my block (which ended up getting my QB sacked, and causing a fumble which lost the game for my team) because I was thinking about the bonus I didn't get.", then GTFO my team.


It was reported the Bills offered Peters more money than the Eagles paid him. The Bills DEVELOPED him from an athletic person into a FOOTBALL player. Paying him on the cheap indeed. Like I said, I don't miss him one bit.


I don't think we've noticed a huge decline in play on the o-line since Peters left to be honest.

Did they replace Peters with another household name at LT? Obviously not. However if the line as a whole hasn't declined since his departure what's the difference?Not to mention the fact that he's out injured more often than he plays... And we can't forget about the actual compensation we got for him.

Of course... Everybody's got the right to be bitter their whole life if they choose.

[cookie G]

Anybody still want him back?
.

Why? We can still get him back?

Sure..put him back at LT, Kick Glenn to the inside (Coastie!!!), you've just made Spiller and EJ happy men.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

One of those was as a Buffalo Bill. ENJOY THAT! Who cares about playoffs or Super Bowls? As long as Jason gets recognition all is GOOD.

He went to two pro bowls and made two all-pro lists as a Bill. He has since made three more pro bowls and two all-pro lists as an Eagle.

And if we're talking playoffs, the Eagles have won the NFC East twice since they picked him up.

[swiper]

Until we become a successful franchise, these decisions are going to continue to be discussed.



The Bills made the right decision. What's the problem?

[Yasgur's Farm]

"I was shocked, I had no clue. I had just told Buffalo I was going to play two more years there and I was done with them. And then my agent [Eugene Parker] called." -Jason Peters-


He then proceeded to miss large parts of training camp with injuries. Then he was hurt in a preseason game and did not even travel with the team for a game. The regular season came and Peters spent almost the entire season on the injury report and missed all or part of several games, yet he still made the Pro Bowl.

[swiper]

Yeah, I think anybody using Pro-Bowl nominations to argue for Jason Peters ability is just missing the boat.

[Goobylal]

He went to two pro bowls and made two all-pro lists as a Bill. He has since made three more pro bowls and two all-pro lists as an Eagle.

And if we're talking playoffs, the Eagles have won the NFC East twice since they picked him up.
They made the playoffs without him, and an aging/declining LT in Tra Thomas. Moreover since Vick has been the starter, his value as a LT is diminished since he's no longer protecting the QB's blind side.

BTW they didn't win either of those playoff games, and missed them in 2011, just like they'll miss them this year.

"I was shocked, I had no clue. I had just told Buffalo I was going to play two more years there and I was done with them. And then my agent [Eugene Parker] called." -Jason Peters-
Yep. This doosh was "shocked" that the Bills would trade him, after he told them he would play 2 more years, and poorly at that if 2008 was any indication, and leave.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I love how the goalposts keep moving.

"What did the Eagles get out of him?"
"Two all-pro seasons."
"But what about the playoffs?"
"They won their division twice."
"But did they win any of those playoff games?"

So no one will admit the Eagles won that trade unless they win the Super Bowl? We traded away an elite left tackle and got a pretty good center. Maybe Eric Wood kicks the injury bug and becomes the rock that we hoped he would be, but he hasn't yet.

[Goobylal]

I love how the goalposts keep moving.

"What did the Eagles get out of him?"
"Two all-pro seasons."
"But what about the playoffs?"
"They won their division twice."
"But did they win any of those playoff games?"

So no one will admit the Eagles won that trade unless they win the Super Bowl? We traded away an elite left tackle and got a pretty good center. Maybe Eric Wood kicks the injury bug and becomes the rock that we hoped he would be, but he hasn't yet.
There's no moving the goalposts going on. Peters isn't making a difference to their fortunes.

[Mr. Pink]

I love how the goalposts keep moving.

"What did the Eagles get out of him?"
"Two all-pro seasons."
"But what about the playoffs?"
"They won their division twice."
"But did they win any of those playoff games?"

So no one will admit the Eagles won that trade unless they win the Super Bowl? We traded away an elite left tackle and got a pretty good center. Maybe Eric Wood kicks the injury bug and becomes the rock that we hoped he would be, but he hasn't yet.

Both teams won the trade.

We got value out of a guy who no longer wanted to be here and the Eagles got a starting tackle.

[ServoBillieves]

Yeah, I think anybody using Pro-Bowl nominations to argue for Jason Peters ability is just missing the boat.

Madden numbers don't lie...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

There's no moving the goalposts going on.

That's exactly what's going on, whether you admit it or not.


Peters isn't making a difference to their fortunes.

None at all? Was it coincidental that he missed the whole year, they gave up 16 more sacks, rushed for 400 fewer yards, and scored 116 fewer points?

Did his absence play a role in that collapse?

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, I think anybody using Pro-Bowl nominations to argue for Jason Peters ability is just missing the boat.

Deflect deflect deflect

[Goobylal]

That's exactly what's going on, whether you admit it or not.



None at all? Was it coincidental that he missed the whole year, they gave up 16 more sacks, rushed for 400 fewer yards, and scored 116 fewer points?

Did his absence play a role in that collapse?
Doubtful at best. The Eagles gave up 49 sacks (i.e. 1 more sack than last year) in 2010, Peters' 2nd year with the team. And they rushed for fewer yards in large part to McCoy missing 4 games. While a lot of the problems on offense can be traced to having a rookie (Foles) start 6 games.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Doubtful at best. The Eagles gave up 49 sacks (i.e. 1 more sack than last year) in 2010, Peters' 2nd year with the team. And they rushed for fewer yards in large part to McCoy missing 4 games. While a lot of the problems on offense can be traced to having a rookie (Foles) start 6 games.

So you don't think losing Peters for the entire year had any effect?

[cookie G]

Doubtful at best. The Eagles gave up 49 sacks (i.e. 1 more sack than last year) in 2010, Peters' 2nd year with the team. And they rushed for fewer yards in large part to McCoy missing 4 games. While a lot of the problems on offense can be traced to having a rookie (Foles) start 6 games.

8th, 3rd and 5th in the league in scoring the 3 years he's been there.

29th in scoring last year.

I'd love to see one of the Bills' higher priced players make that much of a difference.

I'd settle for half that.

[Goobylal]

So you don't think losing Peters for the entire year had any effect?
I didn't see any of their games so I couldn't tell you if his absence led to Vick's and McCoy's injuries. But I do know that in 2011, they failed to make the playoffs, and Peters played a full season.

[Goobylal]

8th, 3rd and 5th in the league in scoring the 3 years he's been there.

29th in scoring last year.

I'd love to see one of the Bills' higher priced players make that much of a difference.

I'd settle for half that.
They were 6th in scoring in 2008, the year before Peters arrived. And at the end of the season, they fired Andy Reid. Surprisingly they didn't keep him and blame the entire season on Peters' absence.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I didn't see any of their games so I couldn't tell you if his absence led to Vick's and McCoy's injuries. But I do know that in 2011, they failed to make the playoffs, and Peters played a full season.

Thier defense couldn't get out of its way that year. They'd play a great game and follow it up with a complete stinker. FWIW, Peters was a first team All-Pro that season.

I'll give an example of Peters' effect. Look at this play from 2012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Oee0UkV0k

Their left tackle (Demetress Bell) can't handle Calais Campbell 1v1 like they would expect Peters to, so the Guard comes over to help. The Cards linebacker shoots right through the gap the LG vacated for a sack.

[Goobylal]

Thier defense couldn't get out of its way that year. They'd play a great game and follow it up with a complete stinker. FWIW, Peters was a first team All-Pro that season.

I'll give an example of Peters' effect. Look at this play from 2012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Oee0UkV0k

Their left tackle (Demetress Bell) can't handle Calais Campbell 1v1 like they would expect Peters to, so the Guard comes over to help. The Cards linebacker shoots right through the gap the LG vacated for a sack.
Hard to pin that solely on Peters' absence without knowing the play design. I looks like McCoy's responsibility was to pickup the blitzer and he whiffed. And that game was in Phoenix, while the Cards beat Philly the year before at Philly.

[cookie G]

They were 6th in scoring in 2008, the year before Peters arrived.

Yep. Tra Thomas' last year with the Eagles. They knew he was getting older, replaced him with Peters.



And at the end of the season, they fired Andy Reid.

Yep.



Surprisingly they didn't keep him and blame the entire season on Peters' absence.

Nor is it surprising that Andy Reid's first draft pick as a Chief was a LT, just like it wasn't surprising that he traded for Peters.

I wonder...who knows more about how to run an offense...Andy Reid...who has consistently had one of the NFL's best offenses over the last decade...

or Russ Brandon.

Tough call.

[Goobylal]

Yep. Tra Thomas' last year with the Eagles. They knew he was getting older, replaced him with Peters.
Yep. Thomas was on his last legs, but the offense still managed to rank highly, and give up far fewer sacks than any of the 3 years Peters played for them. And they made it to the NFCCG that year as well.


Yep.

Nor is it surprising that Andy Reid's first draft pick as a Chief was a LT, just like it wasn't surprising that he traded for Peters.

I wonder...who knows more about how to run an offense...Andy Reid...who has consistently had one of the NFL's best offenses over the last decade...

or Russ Brandon.

Tough call.
Obviously Reid has had far more success. But that was with the Eagles and we'll see how much success he has with the Chefs. His fortunes will rise and fall with Alex Smith FAR more than Eric Fisher, who will likely start at RT this season, assuming he even pans out. What would have been smarter would have been to shore-up their defense, which ranked 8th-last in points surrendered, and having Brandon Albert man LT. I guess he's hoping the best defense is a good offense.

[better days]

So you don't think losing Peters for the entire year had any effect?

So you don't think the fact Peters MISSED an ENTIRE YEAR has any effect on the TRADE?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

So you don't think the fact Peters MISSED an ENTIRE YEAR has any effect on the TRADE?

Of COURSE it is SIGNIFICANT. Peters has HAD trouble staying healthy, BUT so HAS Wood so IT is best A wash.

[better days]

Of COURSE it is SIGNIFICANT. Peters has HAD trouble staying healthy, BUT so HAS Wood so IT is best A wash.

Talk about FOOLS GOLD, Jason Peters is the EPITOME of FOOLS GOLD.

[cookie G]

[QUOTE=Goobylal;3800223]Yep. Thomas was on his last legs, but the offense still managed to rank highly, and give up far fewer sacks than any of the 3 years Peters played for them. And they made it to the NFCCG that year as well.

Peters gave up 3 sacks in 2011.

http://blogs.mcall.com/eagles/2012/10/a-reminder-of-how-much-the-eagles-miss-jason-peters.html

and

7. Jason Peters, OT, Philadelphia Eagles

The first offensive lineman on the list checks in at No. 7. That’s ahead of the league’s leading rusher and a player that broke the single-season receiving yardage mark for a tight end (only to have that record broken again at the death by Rob Gronkowski). Jason Peters has been comfortably the best tackle in football in 2011. In something of a down year for offensive tackle play, Peters’ +27.6 grade is almost double the next-best player. Despite blocking for Michael Vick–who has a tendency to run away from his protection at the best of times–Peters has surrendered just 20 total pressures (sacks, knockdowns, and hurries) on the season and has allowed Vick to hit the deck just four times.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/05/2011-pff-offensive-player-of-the-year/

gave up 2 in 2010..

http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/jason-peters-251177/

[cookie G]

Talk about FOOLS GOLD, Jason Peters is the EPITOME of FOOLS GOLD.

One produces;
the other makes excuses.

Cue Don King!

[better days]

One produces;
the other makes excuses.

Cue Don King!

The one that produces is MARIO!

[Mike]

Very simple to evaluate trade:

Better player:
Peters > Wood
- Regardless of what you think, feel, etc... Peters is considered by far the better player. If you disagree, do you think you could trade Wood right now for Peters? No GM would think about pulling a trade like this.

Durability
Wood = Peters
- Both players are injured quite often. Nothing admired here on either side

Contract
Wood > Peters
- Peters obviously makes more at this point however that may change at the end of the year with Woods rookie contract coming to an end

Age
Wood > Peters
- Wood is younger and has many more years to go

Effect
Peters > Wood
- Peters clearly effects the game and the offense more so than Wood. Wood is an often injured above average center, while Peters is an often injured elite left tackle. Left tackle takes it here and it's not even close...

Overall
Peters > Wood
- if you were a GM would you trade an elite left tackle for an above average center? I would either and when you take the emotion out of it -yes you Bills fans- it's pretty easy to see who won on this trade.

[better days]

Very simple to evaluate trade:

Better player:
Peters > Wood
- Regardless of what you think, feel, etc... Peters is considered by far the better player. If you disagree, do you think you could trade Wood right now for Peters? No GM would think about pulling a trade like this.

Durability
Wood = Peters
- Both players are injured quite often. Nothing admired here on either side

Contract
Wood > Peters
- Peters obviously makes more at this point however that may change at the end of the year with Woods rookie contract coming to an end

Age
Wood > Peters
- Wood is younger and has many more years to go

Effect
Peters > Wood
- Peters clearly effects the game and the offense more so than Wood. Wood is an often injured above average center, while Peters is an often injured elite left tackle. Left tackle takes it here and it's not even close...

Overall
Peters > Wood
- if you were a GM would you trade an elite left tackle for an above average center? I would either and when you take the emotion out of it -yes you Bills fans- it's pretty easy to see who won on this trade.

I will give you that LT is a more premier position than Center, but I don't think Peters is as good as you think. And I don't care about the Pro Bowl votes he got in the past. We will see how he plays going forward after rupturing his achilles tendon twice in a short period of time.

[gr8slayer]

Still amongst the biggest mistakes the Bills have made in the past decade.

[justasportsfan]

[QUOTE=Goobylal;3800223]Yep. Thomas was on his last legs, but the offense still managed to rank highly, and give up far fewer sacks than any of the 3 years Peters played for them. And they made it to the NFCCG that year as well.

Peters gave up 3 sacks in 2011.

http://blogs.mcall.com/eagles/2012/10/a-reminder-of-how-much-the-eagles-miss-jason-peters.html

and

7. Jason Peters, OT, Philadelphia Eagles

The first offensive lineman on the list checks in at No. 7. That’s ahead of the league’s leading rusher and a player that broke the single-season receiving yardage mark for a tight end (only to have that record broken again at the death by Rob Gronkowski). Jason Peters has been comfortably the best tackle in football in 2011. In something of a down year for offensive tackle play, Peters’ +27.6 grade is almost double the next-best player. Despite blocking for Michael Vick–who has a tendency to run away from his protection at the best of times–Peters has surrendered just 20 total pressures (sacks, knockdowns, and hurries) on the season and has allowed Vick to hit the deck just four times.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/05/2011-pff-offensive-player-of-the-year/

gave up 2 in 2010..

http://www.profootballweekly.com/players/jason-peters-251177/

could Peters have given less sacks because Vick was a lefty and could easily see whats coming from Peters side and avoid it?

Don't get me wrong, LT is the most important position on the OL , if the LT is protecting the qb's blindside.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

[QUOTE=cookie G;3800239]

could Peters have given less sacks because Vick was a lefty and could easily see whats coming from Peters side and avoid it?

Don't get me wrong, LT is the most important position on the OL , if the LT is protecting the qb's blindside.

It's not just about the blindside, it's about taking on the opponent's best pass rusher. Most defenses don't flip all their personnel just to face a left handed QB, so Peters is still taking on JPP, Ware, Orakpo, Allen, the Smiths, etc.

[swiper]

Peters is one of the most over-rated players in Bills history.

[Joe Fo Sho]

He was an undrafted free agent, who turned into a premier Left Tackle. Most teams would consider that 'hitting the jackpot.' But no, not Buffalo.

[better days]

He was an undrafted free agent, who turned into a premier Left Tackle. Most teams would consider that 'hitting the jackpot.' But no, not Buffalo.

He is now a 31 year old malcontent with a twice ruptured achilles tendon.

[justasportsfan]

[QUOTE=justasportsfan;3800349]

It's not just about the blindside, it's about taking on the opponent's best pass rusher. Most defenses don't flip all their personnel just to face a left handed QB, so Peters is still taking on JPP, Ware, Orakpo, Allen, the Smiths, etc.

I'm stating it as fact which is why I am asking because I really haven't paid attention to the eagles. Would these guys not have gotten to the qb if the qb as mobile as Vick can see them coming and skew the stats?

I was one of the guys who wanted the bills to pay Peters but his presence hasn't really done anything for the Eagles' success.

[Joe Fo Sho]

He is now a 31 year old malcontent with a twice ruptured achilles tendon.

Right, it would've been terrible to have a premier Left Tackle on our team for the last 4 years. We've won 22 games in the 4 years he's been gone.

[GingerP]

No matter what you think of how he left the Bills, Peters was arguably the best LT in the NFL before getting hurt. An achilles is not easy injury to return from, but before he was hurt he guy was dominant. Howard Mudd, his position coach, compared him to Walter Jones, who Mudd also coached.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm stating it as fact which is why I am asking because I really haven't paid attention to the eagles. Would these guys not have gotten to the qb if the qb as mobile as Vick can see them coming and skew the stats?

It cuts both ways. Vick can evade some sacks that other QBs won't because of his mobility. But it also leads him to run around in the backfield instead of just throwing the ball away, which increases his sack rate as well.


I was one of the guys who wanted the bills to pay Peters but his presence hasn't really done anything for the Eagles' success.

That's because people are setting crazy standards for how a Left Tackle adds to a team's success. You want individual honors? He has them. Playoff berths? They had them too. Top ten offenses? They had one every year he played. They've gone 25-18 with him playing and 8-15 with him out.

Unless the Eagles win a Super Bowl while Peters blocks two guys at once on each play, no one is going to give him credit for anything.

[Mike]

It cuts both ways. Vick can evade some sacks that other QBs won't because of his mobility. But it also leads him to run around in the backfield instead of just throwing the ball away, which increases his sack rate as well.



That's because people are setting crazy standards for how a Left Tackle adds to a team's success. You want individual honors? He has them. Playoff berths? They had them too. Top ten offenses? They had one every year he played. They've gone 25-18 with him playing and 8-15 with him out.

Unless the Eagles win a Super Bowl while Peters blocks two guys at once on each play, no one is going to give him credit for anything.


Once there was a young man walking into a bordello. On his way up the stairs he sees a familiar figure, and as that figure approaches ever closer, he realizes its his dad. His dad quickly approaches him and says, "your mom was very tired, I didn't want to bother her for a measly $20 service"

*You see, humans are capable of justifying anything.*

[PromoTheRobot]

We couldn't have found room for a four time All-Pro on a team this talented and successful. Don't be silly.

What "talent" are you referring to? The talent to sit on his fat arse and miss games?

PTR

[better days]

Right, it would've been terrible to have a premier Left Tackle on our team for the last 4 years. We've won 22 games in the 4 years he's been gone.

I doubt we would have won even one more game had Peters not left the team.

[better days]

It cuts both ways. Vick can evade some sacks that other QBs won't because of his mobility. But it also leads him to run around in the backfield instead of just throwing the ball away, which increases his sack rate as well.



That's because people are setting crazy standards for how a Left Tackle adds to a team's success. You want individual honors? He has them. Playoff berths? They had them too. Top ten offenses? They had one every year he played. They've gone 25-18 with him playing and 8-15 with him out.

Unless the Eagles win a Super Bowl while Peters blocks two guys at once on each play, no one is going to give him credit for anything.

When Vick runs around, it is NOT in the backfield. Talk about disingenuous BS.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I doubt we would have won even one more game had Peters not left the team.

My point was more that we suck too much to let any of our talent leave, rather than argue about something neither could prove.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

When Vick runs around, it is NOT in the backfield. Talk about disingenuous BS.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I posted a video of Vick doing exactly that in this very thread.

[better days]

My point was more that we suck too much to let any of our talent leave, rather than argue about something neither could prove.

I don't like losing talented players either but sometimes it can't be helped. In any event, this is a new front office, Peters is a part of the past.

[better days]

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I posted a video of Vick doing exactly that in this very thread.

Give me a break. HOW MANY TIMES do you think that has happened? Even IMMOBILE QBS have run around a bit in the backfield trying to avoid a sack.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Give me a break. HOW MANY TIMES do you think that has happened? Even IMMOBILE QBS have run around a bit in the backfield trying to avoid a sack.

Immobile QBs who know they are immobile do this thing called "Throwing the ball away." Watch Manning, Brady, etc. When things go sideways, they just move out of the tackle box and throw it into the seats.

Compare Vick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKHTOw24iP4

After he completes his play action fake, he rolls back and sees Peppers coming right at him. He even has the ball up and he's out of the tackle box, all he has to do is throw it away. Instead he tucks it, tries to juke and fails. And winds up fumbling the ball.


Here's another example, maybe the most egregious since Aaron Brooks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LTNw4jxKiY

[better days]

Immobile QBs who know they are immobile do this thing called "Throwing the ball away." Watch Manning, Brady, etc. When things go sideways, they just move out of the tackle box and throw it into the seats.

Compare Vick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKHTOw24iP4

After he completes his play action fake, he rolls back and sees Peppers coming right at him. He even has the ball up and he's out of the tackle box, all he has to do is throw it away. Instead he tucks it, tries to juke and fails. And winds up fumbling the ball.


Here's another example, maybe the most egregious since Aaron Brooks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LTNw4jxKiY

Manning & Brady have two of the quickest releases in the NFL. 99% of NFL QBs would do just as Vick did in the video you posted. MANY MANY MANY times Fitz did the SAME thing as Vick in that Video as a Bill & I would hardly call him mobile.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Manning & Brady have two of the quickest releases in the NFL. 99% of NFL QBs would do just as Vick did in the video you posted. MANY MANY MANY times Fitz did the SAME thing as Vick in that Video as a Bill & I would hardly call him mobile.

You didn't watch the second video, did you?

Anyway, here's PFF claiming that Vick has the second slowest time to throw in the league and the 3rd longest time to sack (because he's running around juking)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

[better days]

You didn't watch the second video, did you?

The 2nd video was Vick rolling out to throw a pass & getting sacked IMMEDIATELY. He did not run around at all on that play, it was a designed rollout pass play that the defense blew up.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The 2nd video was Vick rolling out to throw a pass & getting sacked IMMEDIATELY. He did not run around at all on that play, it was a designed rollout pass play that the defense blew up.

The second video in that post. The one from the Eagles-Jets game. There's a link at the bottom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LTNw4jxKiY

He takes a 23 yard sack.

[better days]

You didn't watch the second video, did you?

Anyway, here's PFF claiming that Vick has the second slowest time to throw in the league and the 3rd longest time to sack (because he's running around juking)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/07/signature-stat-snapshot-time-to-throw/

And much of the time Vick ran around, he was running towards & past the LOS. And Peters was not on the field for much of that either.

[better days]

The second video in that post. The one from the Eagles-Jets game. There's a link at the bottom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LTNw4jxKiY

He takes a 23 yard sack.

Like I said, I saw Fitz do the EXACT same thing MANY MANY times.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And much of the time Vick ran around, he was running towards & past the LOS. And Peters was not on the field for much of that either.

What are you trying to argue here? Vick takes a lot of sacks. I didn't think that was in dispute. He's the most frequently sacked starters in the NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_sacked_perc_active.htm)

He holds the ball forever and he's always trying to extend plays with his legs.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure (Vick ranks #2 in the league for sacks where he held the ball 3+ seconds)

Vick is one of the best in the league at spinning away from pressure. Sensing backside pressure, he'll dip a shoulder, spin around and slip under a charging defensive end.

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Like I said, I saw Fitz do the EXACT same thing MANY MANY times.

When has Fitz run backward for a 20+ yard sack?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2012/under-pressure-short-and-long-sacks

[Yasgur's Farm]

Oh... A pissing contest!! Can I play too?

[better days]

What are you trying to argue here? Vick takes a lot of sacks. I didn't think that was in dispute. He's the most frequently sacked starters in the NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_sacked_perc_active.htm)

He holds the ball forever and he's always trying to extend plays with his legs.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure (Vick ranks #2 in the league for sacks where he held the ball 3+ seconds)


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When has Fitz run backward for a 20+ yard sack?

Well, I am not arguing that Vick is a GOOD QB. My only point is that Peters did NOTHING to help the Eagles WIN. He did NOTHING for that TEAM.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

My only point is that Peters did NOTHING to help the Eagles WIN. He did NOTHING for that TEAM.

I get THAT part. You inexplicably think THAT having AN all-pro left tackle DOES nothing for AN offense. LIKE I said earlier, you WILL not be satisfied unless THE Eagles win THE super bowl WHILE Peters blocks two defenders AT once.

[better days]

I get THAT part. You inexplicably think THAT having AN all-pro left tackle DOES nothing for AN offense. LIKE I said earlier, you WILL not be satisfied unless THE Eagles win THE super bowl WHILE Peters blocks two defenders AT once.

If the Eagles win the Super Bowl, I think Peters blocking one defender per play would be enough to satisfy me.