Byrd skipping mandatory mini-camp

[Skooby]

Oh no.

[swiper]

Link please

[BillsFever21]

No surprise here and was expected. We won't see him until training camp and that's assuming he signed his franchise tender or hopefully was signed to an extension by then. If not then we won't see him till somewhere towards the end of training camp/preseason. This front office needs to get this done already.

[Skooby]

We will not overpay for him, he's a one year wonder on a consistently losing team. If he was consistent on a winning team, he'd have a chance at his contract goal.

[Skooby]

Link please

You'll hear about it soon.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Gawd damn it, he better show up soon because he's gonna forget how to cover people and get interceptions.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/344141789776711680

[IlluminatusUIUC]

he's a one year wonder

He's a two time All-Pro. In fact, he's made as many all-pro teams as Mario Williams.

[feldspar]

Like I said in the other thread, this is not uncommon for guys that are franchised. Byrd is not under contract, so he can do whatever the hell he wants. This mini-camp is not mandatory for him.

I'm not sure as if the Bills are trying to negotiate a long-term contract extension with him at this time (before the 2013 season)...somehow, I don't think so. I hope so, but I haven't heard anything other than he'll go into the season with the franchise tag. He HAS to play this year under the franchise tag if we don't sign him to a multi-year contract by July 15th.

Franchise tagged players only HAVE to show up by November 12th.

He'll show up at one point.

[jimmifli]

We will not overpay for him, he's a one year wonder on a consistently losing team. If he was consistent on a winning team, he'd have a chance at his contract goal.
He's the best player on the roster. If he's not the best S in the NFL he's in the top 3. He's worth every penny he's asking.

[SpikedLemonade]

I don't want to lose another of our top players but with the level of talent on this team and heading into a very rough year, are we really going to give a safety $9.5M a year?

I am all for spending Ralph's money -- that he gets from the NFL for the TV revenue sharing -- but with the albatross that is Mario's contract, I would like to also be able to spend some money on our OL as well over the next few years.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I don't want to lose another of our top players but with the level of talent on this team and heading into a very rough year, are we really going to give a safety $9.5M a year?

I am all for spending Ralph's money -- that he gets from the NFL for the TV revenue sharing -- but with the albatross that is Mario's contract, I would like to also be able to spend some money on our OL as well over the next few years.

Hahaha, you think teams should pay morbidly obese guys to protect the QB and open up running lanes, silly Canadian Ralph's cheap!

[coastal]

And the cost of Fool's Gold continues to rise.

[BillsFever21]

We will not overpay for him, he's a one year wonder on a consistently losing team. If he was consistent on a winning team, he'd have a chance at his contract goal.

A one year wonder? That's a good one. He's a top safety who has been stuck on a lousy team and defense and has still excelled. He's averaged around 7 takeaways a year in his career between INT's and FF's.

[Uncle Jesse]

As expected...I'll be more concerned if it plays out into training camp.

[SpikedLemonade]

And the cost of Fool's Gold continues to rise.

If Buddy was right about two things -- (1) we were close to contending and (2) Mario was a difference making game changer -- then that expenditure might look reasonable.

However, Buddy over-valued the talent on the team (because he acquired it and he was smarter than those other GMs who became GMs before 70 years of age) and refused to listen to the NFL consensus that Mario never lived up to his #1 overall draft status in Houston.

Now that contract constipates our growth to become a contender in 3 years (best case scenario).

[SpikedLemonade]

Hahaha, you think teams should pay morbidly obese guys to protect the QB and open up running lanes, silly Canadian Ralph's cheap!

You sarcastic bastard.

The ignorance this team has shown to acquiring OL talent is epic.

[jimmifli]

And the cost of Fool's Gold continues to rise.
There's no reason we couldn't afford to pay Andy and Jarius what they wanted. We had/still have many roster spots where there is cap space being lit on fire while being flushed down the toilet.

Mario didn't live up to his contract, but the fact that Buddy is/was a moron with other roster spots should not be used against Mario.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

And the cost of Fool's Gold continues to rise.

That's Mr. Iron Pyrite to you jackass :D

[GvilleBills]

This is as much of a non story as it was a few weeks ago when the other thread came up. Get the deal done, he'll show up. No deal, no show until last second.
Stop acting like this is the first NFL off season you've ever witnessed.

And MMDowntown, the "one year wonder" comment indicates you should spend less time on this board and more time locating a clue.

[Skooby]

This is as much of a non story as it was a few weeks ago when the other thread came up. Get the deal done, he'll show up. No deal, no show until last second.
Stop acting like this is the first NFL off season you've ever witnessed.

And MMDowntown, the "one year wonder" comment indicates you should spend less time on this board and more time locating a clue.

JB's 2009 INT total is equal to his past 3 years combined, even passes defended is close for 2009 if you combine the last 3 years. That's a one year wonder to me & you don't pay him near the most money for one amazing rookie season.

http://www.nfl.com/player/jairusbyrd/79899/careerstats

[GingerP]

The idea that Williams or anyone else's contract is keeping the Bills from re-signing players is laughable. The Bills aren't in bad cap shape. In fact, because they are paying a relative pittance in the next few years for the QB position means they have a huge advantage cap-wise over teams that are paying QBs a lot of money. Of course, I'd rather have a great QB and be tighter on the cap, but cap space isn't the issue signing Byrd or anyone else.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

JB's 2009 INT total is equal to his past 3 years combined, even passes defended is close for 2009 if you combine the last 3 years. That's a one year wonder to me & you don't pay him near the most money for one amazing rookie season.

http://www.nfl.com/player/jairusbyrd/79899/careerstats


It's almost like you're ignoring the fact that he's forced 10 fumbles in the last three years (4 in 2012), made several game-changing or outright winning plays, and again made the All-Pro team last season

[coastal]

There's no reason we couldn't afford to pay Andy and Jarius what they wanted. We had/still have many roster spots where there is cap space being lit on fire while being flushed down the toilet.

Mario didn't live up to his contract, but the fact that Buddy is/was a moron with other roster spots should not be used against Mario.
Cash to crap.

- - - Updated - - -


That's Mr. Iron Pyrite to you jackass :D
Zing points blowup wife boy.

i like that one.

[Skooby]

It's almost like you're ignoring the fact that he's forced 10 fumbles in the last three years (4 in 2012), made several game-changing or outright winning plays, and again made the All-Pro team last season

How many outright winning plays did he make??

[GvilleBills]

JB's 2009 INT total is equal to his past 3 years combined, even passes defended is close for 2009 if you combine the last 3 years. That's a one year wonder to me & you don't pay him near the most money for one amazing rookie season.

http://www.nfl.com/player/jairusbyrd/79899/careerstats
You're out there dude. His second season was a letdown, statistically. He followed that by shoring up his run defense and becoming one of the better FS in run support. Last year he firmly proved himself as the total package and arguably the most complete S in the game. He's only had one sub par year, and it wasn't truly sub par. Can't get 9 picks every year.

[GvilleBills]

One more thing: Byrd is worth the $ to any team in the league. This new defense will be fed off of his versatility, coupled with the message it sends to the locker room that you take care of your home grown game changers.

[GvilleBills]

Cash to crap.

- - - Updated - - -


Zing points blowup wife boy.

i like that one.

An albatross contract is Levitre $ to a guard, that will kill your team. DE is a premium position, with premium costs. FFS, get off Mario's nuts. 10.5 sacks in basically 1/2 a year, "phantom" injury or not. Push your agenda on the 49ers board like a good turncoat band wagoneer.

[PromoTheRobot]

He's the best player on the roster. If he's not the best S in the NFL he's in the top 3. He's worth every penny he's asking.

Better than CJ Spiller??? Or is it just whoever is looking for a new deal automatically becomes our best player?

PTR

[Skooby]

Better than CJ Spiller??? Or is it just whoever is looking for a new deal automatically becomes our best player?

PTR

We should pay a guy all-star money who had one all-star year out of 4 / 4 seasons ago, crazy talk.

[cookie G]

You're out there dude. His second season was a letdown, statistically. He followed that by shoring up his run defense and becoming one of the better FS in run support.

Oh he is not.

He avoids contact except as a last resort, can take bad angles and can completely whiff in the open field..

For example.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aeERqJJw414?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[GvilleBills]

We should pay a guy all-star money who had one all-star year out of 4 / 4 seasons ago, crazy talk.

I think Byrd has earned his $ more than CJ, at this time. Byrd has done it for longer. As awesome as last year was, it's still CJ's only year of production. FredJax wasn't the only thing keeping him on the bench.

[GvilleBills]

Oh he is not.

He avoids contact except as a last resort, can take bad angles and can completely whiff in the open field..

For example.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aeERqJJw414?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Damn bad play, but more exception than rule. He more often than not comes up and makes a hit on the ball carrier. I think its a marked improvement from where he entered the league, and feel confident in him as the last line of defense.

[cookie G]

As another example, Chris Johnson's long touchdown against the Bills last season...

a good breakdown by Matt Bowen on what happened...

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Playbook-Chris-Johnson-runs-past-the-Bills.html

Pictures are in the article.

but what he said about Byrd...

- The Bills need their FS, Jairus Byrd (orange), to take the proper angle and make an open field tackle. However, Byrd wants to drive straight downhill and enter the run front. As a FS, you must keep your depth. Remember, you are a “secondary” run defender and have to give yourself enough room to take an angle that allows you to make the tackle. Get the ball carrier on the ground and live to see another down. That’s your job.

Look at Byrd here. There is no need for the FS to be down near the box in this situation. Because he doesn’t have depth when this ball breaks, Byrd now has to take a flat angle vs. the vertical speed of Johnson. That’s bad football. As I said above, give yourself room, take a 45-degree angle, come to balance and make the play.

He might have went from terrible to below average, but there is no way he's one of the "better run defenders in the league".

If he was, they wouldn't have had one of the worst run D's in the NFL.
If he was, they wouldn't have been 2nd to last in the league in 20+ TD's allowed.

As Matt Bowen points out...that's what they do. They are supposed to keep the 5-10 yard gain from becoming the 20-40 yard gain.

He's a center fielder...a good center fielder in pass D. I don't know if that warrants $10 million a year.

[coastal]

Damn bad play, but more exception than rule. He more often than not comes up and makes a hit on the ball carrier. I think its a marked improvement from where he entered the league, and feel confident in him as the last line of defense.
R u out of your mind?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How many outright winning plays did he make??

The undisputable one was in Arizona this year, an INT in overtime that he returned to the 6 yard line.

Another one that should have ended the game was picking off Tannehill at the 2 minute warning of the Miami Thursday game. Had the offense converted even one measley first, we would have won it right there.

Another that came down to a bad bounce was Byrd forcing a fumble with 2:30 minutes left against Tennessee, only for the ball to roll out of bounds. Tennessee scored the winning points on that possession.

So that's 2 of our wins this year that can be tied directly to Byrd.

[SpikedLemonade]

Look if money was unlimited pay Byrd whatever.

I just can't believe that paying a safety $9.5M per is not going to be a problem for the future of a team with very little talent.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Oh he is not.

He avoids contact except as a last resort, can take bad angles and can completely whiff in the open field..

For example.



Jerome Simpson has pretty ridiculous hops. Bad play, but he's gotten the better of people before.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoucVKKJpoA

Here he is owning Daryl Washington

[cookie G]

Jerome Simpson has pretty ridiculous hops. Bad play, but he's gotten the better of people before.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoucVKKJpoA

Here he is owning Daryl Washington

Yeah i know..he flies over some people.

But I'm sorry, a lot of it is the frustration with the defense..

This guy had these stats so he did his job;
That guy is indispensible;
This guy is a beast;
That guy is solid...

etc. etc.

Personally, outside of maybe Kyle Williams..I wouldn't be overly upset if any of them left.


Because they sucked...sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked.

Quite possibly the biggest group of underachievers in Bills history.

It wasn't due to lack of talent..and I have my questions about "scheme".

As Kyle Williams said, after the Titan's game...in effect..Scheme don't matter when guys aren't where they should be....

Way too much freelancing, way too little discipline, way to many bone head plays, just like the one Matt Bowen described against the Titans. You could go back to almost all of their big plays and you'll probably find someone out of position, when they could have been in position to stop it.

Is that coaching? Yeah, in a way. Parcells or Belichick would have reamed them a new one. I'd hate to think what a Nick Saban or Lombardi would have done.

That's my hope for Pettine, that he can get these guys to do what they are supposed to be doing.

But I also think, damn, if these guys couldn't figure out a really simple scheme, how are they going to be in a complicated one?

[Skooby]

Yeah i know..he flies over some people.

But I'm sorry, a lot of it is the frustration with the defense..

This guy had these stats so he did his job;
That guy is indispensible;
This guy is a beast;
That guy is solid...

etc. etc.

Personally, outside of maybe Kyle Williams..I wouldn't be overly upset if any of them left.


Because they sucked...sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked.

Quite possibly the biggest group of underachievers in Bills history.

It wasn't due to lack of talent..and I have my questions about "scheme".

As Kyle Williams said, after the Titan's game...in effect..Scheme don't matter when guys aren't where they should be....

Way too much freelancing, way too little discipline, way to many bone head plays, just like the one Matt Bowen described against the Titans. You could go back to almost all of their big plays and you'll probably find someone out of position, when they could have been in position to stop it.

Is that coaching? Yeah, in a way. Parcells or Belichick would have reamed them a new one. I'd hate to think what a Nick Saban or Lombardi would have done.

That's my hope for Pettine, that he can get these guys to do what they are supposed to be doing.

But I also think, damn, if these guys couldn't figure out a really simple scheme, how are they going to be in a complicated one?

Brilliant post and so true, out defense sucked & Byrd wants a huge payday for years of suck on a suck defense ?? He was one of the best of the worst defense.

Get off your horse Byrd & play like your worth that contract, otherwise you're polishing a turd.

[GvilleBills]

Byrd is far from the problem here. I'm frustrated with the last few years, but I got no beef with Byrd. To each there own I guess.

[Crisis]

You guys are using a play from preseason to downplay our best player on defense.

Yes, let's run one of our best young players out of town. That's exactly what a team devoid of talent and results needs.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Yeah i know..he flies over some people.

But I'm sorry, a lot of it is the frustration with the defense..

This guy had these stats so he did his job;
That guy is indispensible;
This guy is a beast;
That guy is solid...

etc. etc.

Personally, outside of maybe Kyle Williams..I wouldn't be overly upset if any of them left.


Because they sucked...sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked, sucked.

Quite possibly the biggest group of underachievers in Bills history.

It wasn't due to lack of talent..and I have my questions about "scheme".

As Kyle Williams said, after the Titan's game...in effect..Scheme don't matter when guys aren't where they should be....

Way too much freelancing, way too little discipline, way to many bone head plays, just like the one Matt Bowen described against the Titans. You could go back to almost all of their big plays and you'll probably find someone out of position, when they could have been in position to stop it.

Is that coaching? Yeah, in a way. Parcells or Belichick would have reamed them a new one. I'd hate to think what a Nick Saban or Lombardi would have done.

That's my hope for Pettine, that he can get these guys to do what they are supposed to be doing.

But I also think, damn, if these guys couldn't figure out a really simple scheme, how are they going to be in a complicated one?

Why would you exempt Kyle Williams but not Byrd from this? Kyle's had his own problems.

At the end of the day though, I see only 4 guys on that D I wouldn't want to give up - Byrd, Kyle W, Dareus, and Gilmore. The former have had standout seasons individually and the latter two are just too young to give up on.

Beyond that, though, is a whole lot of nothing and question marks. And I would hate to let one of the few talented players we've pulled in walk over a pissant contract dispute when we are so willing to toss midlevel contracts at completely worthless losers like Brad Smith, "character" guys like Kelsay, "scheme" guys like Lawson, and one-trick ponies like Anderson.

[jimmifli]

Cash to crap.
Well, your criticism is misplaced. Much of the support for Mario was that it indicated a break from cash to cap, and a willingness to actually compete.

But now Levitre was overrated and Byrd is a malcontent. It isn't Mario's fault the Bills won't try to put their best team on the field.

Sure, there are better ways to spend our money than on a wussy DE, but the real problem isn't our stupid allocation of limit resources. It's how limited our resources are.

[jimmifli]

Better than CJ Spiller??? Or is it just whoever is looking for a new deal automatically becomes our best player?

PTR

Yes. CJ is probably more valuable to the team. But there isn't anybody better at their position than Byrd.

[jimmifli]

Oh he is not.

He avoids contact except as a last resort, can take bad angles and can completely whiff in the open field..

For example.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aeERqJJw414?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Posting a single missed tackle as "evidence" of his poor play is weaksauce. He might not be a big hitter but he's the surest tackling safety in the NFL.

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/02/hits-and-whiffs-the-best-and-worst-buffalo-bills-tacklers.html
"Free-agent safety Jairus Byrd was the most impressive. He missed two tackles (tied for second-fewest in the NFL among safeties who played at least 50 percent of their team's snaps) on 404 run plays and two missed tackles (tied for third-fewest) on 570 pass plays. For every miss, Byrd made 19.8 tackles, the highest ratio among all safeties in PFF's analysis."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/25/performance-based-value-buffalo-bills/
He also only allowed 16 completions all season and none of the completions went for touchdowns. To put that in perspective, he was only TARGETED 21 times all season - and still picked off 5 passes!

The D sucked. But it sure as **** wasn't his fault. QB's stayed away from him. And when they went his way they got burned.

[Crisis]

Posting a single missed tackle as "evidence" of his poor play is weaksauce. He might not be a big hitter but he's the surest tackling safety in the NFL.

from a preseason game no less

[Skooby]

He's the best player on one of the worst defenses, hard to pay him the most at his position.

[Night Train]

Like it was stated above, it's NOT madatory for him, since he didn't sign the paper.

Wow. A contract negotiation with a tough agent. This has NEVER happened before.

:rolleyes:

Deal with it. Watch the players that are here.

[Jan Reimers]

I'm only concerned about getting him signed long term, not about his non-attendance now.

We already let one of our better players - Levitre - walk. I don't see how a rebuilding team ever gets much better if it consistently fails to signs its good, young veterans as they come out of their rookie contracts.

[GvilleBills]

Decade long frustrations funneled at one guy works if its Chris Watson. Byrd is the best player on D, Kyle included.

He wants fair market value, get the pitchforks!

[TedMock]

He's the best player on one of the worst defenses, hard to pay him the most at his position.

This doesn't negate the fact that he actually plays at a high level. In fact, as a safety, a lot of his game would be helped by more productive work from the front seven. The fact that they struggled as they did and he was still able to play at a high level make him all that more impressive.

Early on there was a lot of speculation over losing Byrd and/or Levitre. I have always (and still do) maintained that Byrd is the bigger "must sign." I am a huge fan of Levitre, but stylistically, he excels in one particular scheme. I was "ok" with letting him go if he wasn't going to fit well in Marrone's O-line philosophy. In the end, I do think he could have fit for the most part, but, like others, I didn't feel he was worth quite that price. Byrd, on the other hand, is worth a big pay day in my opinion. Not only is he the best player on the defense, but he is also very, very versatile. He has excellent tracking skills. He is excellent in run support. He excels both as a finesse and a physical safety (despite one person's misguided denial of his physicality). He is not obligated to attend mandatory camp because he has yet to sign his franchise tender. No fines coming, so he and his agent are playing their last bit of leverage. It's all still a business and I don't blame them. We're still looking at July 15th before things can get really ugly. Byrd and Ryan Clady are the only two franchise guys in the league who have yet to sign.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

He's the best player on one of the worst defenses, hard to pay him the most at his position.

In 2008, the Detroit Lions finished 0-16 with the 27th ranked offense. Is Calvin Johnson not still the best wideout in football?

In 2010, the Minnesota Vikings finished 6-10 with the 29th ranked offense. Is Adrian Peterson not still the best halfback in football?

Sometimes elite talent is swamped out by the suckiness that completely surrounds them.

[jamze132]

There's no reason we couldn't afford to pay Andy and Jarius what they wanted. We had/still have many roster spots where there is cap space being lit on fire while being flushed down the toilet.

Mario didn't live up to his contract, but the fact that Buddy is/was a moron with other roster spots should not be used against Mario.

There's no reason to pay a flippin Guard all the money that TEN did.

How can you say Mario hasn't lived up to his contract? He got double digit sacks in his first season.

[Skooby]

This doesn't negate the fact that he actually plays at a high level. In fact, as a safety, a lot of his game would be helped by more productive work from the front seven. The fact that they struggled as they did and he was still able to play at a high level make him all that more impressive.

Early on there was a lot of speculation over losing Byrd and/or Levitre. I have always (and still do) maintained that Byrd is the bigger "must sign." I am a huge fan of Levitre, but stylistically, he excels in one particular scheme. I was "ok" with letting him go if he wasn't going to fit well in Marrone's O-line philosophy. In the end, I do think he could have fit for the most part, but, like others, I didn't feel he was worth quite that price. Byrd, on the other hand, is worth a big pay day in my opinion. Not only is he the best player on the defense, but he is also very, very versatile. He has excellent tracking skills. He is excellent in run support. He excels both as a finesse and a physical safety (despite one person's misguided denial of his physicality). He is not obligated to attend mandatory camp because he has yet to sign his franchise tender. No fines coming, so he and his agent are playing their last bit of leverage. It's all still a business and I don't blame them. We're still looking at July 15th before things can get really ugly. Byrd and Ryan Clady are the only two franchise guys in the league who have yet to sign.

Valid points but Byrd went from 9 INT's in year one to 9 INT's in next 3 years combined, his level of production dropped. Can you please clarify what production besides tackling you're referring too ??

[cookie G]

Why would you exempt Kyle Williams but not Byrd from this? Kyle's had his own problems.

I didn't exempt him.

I said maybe with him.

Probably because he's the only one on the defense that realized it sucked.

[cookie G]

You guys are using a play from preseason to downplay our best player on defense.

Yes, let's run one of our best young players out of town. That's exactly what a team devoid of talent and results needs.

No, it was a response to the statement about how much better he is at run support, and how he is one of the "better run support" safeties in the league.

The Jerome Simpson is an example of how he tackles;
Matt Bowen's analysis of him on the Chris Johnson run is how he plays;
The 19 runs of more than 20 yards is the end product of his run support.

[cookie G]

Posting a single missed tackle as "evidence" of his poor play is weaksauce. He might not be a big hitter but he's the surest tackling safety in the NFL.

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/02/hits-and-whiffs-the-best-and-worst-buffalo-bills-tacklers.html
"Free-agent safety Jairus Byrd was the most impressive. He missed two tackles (tied for second-fewest in the NFL among safeties who played at least 50 percent of their team's snaps) on 404 run plays and two missed tackles (tied for third-fewest) on 570 pass plays. For every miss, Byrd made 19.8 tackles, the highest ratio among all safeties in PFF's analysis."

Yeah, that's a good analysis, Mr. Fli.

Now...actually think about it.

Byrd missed 2
Wilson missed 6 - but there were 20 safeties who missed more.

8 misses between your safeties....and yet..

19 running plays of 20 yards or more.


Something isn't adding up.

I'll go further.

Scott only missed 1
Dareus only missed 1
Mark Anderson didn't miss any
Mario only 4
Barnett, only 4
Kyle Williams only 3

No one on that list of a dozen or so, outside of Wilson, missed more than 4 tackles.

It wasn't Byrd's fault, he's the surest tackling safety in the league;
It wasn't Dareus' fault, he missed less than Byrd;
It wasn't Scott's fault, HE missed less than Byrd;
It wasn't Mark Anderson's fault, he didn't miss any;
It wasn't Kyle Williams' fault, he only missed one more than Byrd, and he's a DT;
It wasn't Mario's fault, he only missed 2 more than Byrd, and he's was playing with a compound fracture in his wrist..and polio;
It wasn't Barnett's fault, he only missed 4, and he's a LB. Ditto for Sheppard and Bradham

You'd think with these guys collectively missing so few tackles...we'd have one of the best run D's in the league;

And yet...

2,300+ rushing yards allowed...31st in the league;
5.0 ypc, 30th in the league;
19 runs of 20+ yards, 31st in the league;
first downs allowed...32nd in the league.
rushing TD's allowed- 23- 32rd in the league.

A run defense worse than even the rebuilding year of 2001.

But we can't blame Byrd, based on your article.
Hell we can't blame anyone based on your article.

Weaksauce?

Yeah, that's weaksauce.

Screw that...I'll go with Vince

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vyRSV9eqTUY?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jimmifli]

Yeah, that's a good analysis, Mr. Fli.

Now...actually think about it.

Byrd missed 2
Wilson missed 6 - but there were 20 safeties who missed more.

8 misses between your safeties....and yet..

19 running plays of 20 yards or more.


Something isn't adding up.

I'll go further.

Scott only missed 1
Dareus only missed 1
Mark Anderson didn't miss any
Mario only 4
Barnett, only 4
Kyle Williams only 3

No one on that list of a dozen or so, outside of Wilson, missed more than 4 tackles.

It wasn't Byrd's fault, he's the surest tackling safety in the league;
It wasn't Dareus' fault, he missed less than Byrd;
It wasn't Scott's fault, HE missed less than Byrd;
It wasn't Mark Anderson's fault, he didn't miss any;
It wasn't Kyle Williams' fault, he only missed one more than Byrd, and he's a DT;
It wasn't Mario's fault, he only missed 2 more than Byrd, and he's was playing with a compound fracture in his wrist..and polio;
It wasn't Barnett's fault, he only missed 4, and he's a LB. Ditto for Sheppard and Bradham

You'd think with these guys collectively missing so few tackles...we'd have one of the best run D's in the league;

And yet...

2,300+ rushing yards allowed...31st in the league;
5.0 ypc, 30th in the league;
19 runs of 20+ yards, 31st in the league;
first downs allowed...32nd in the league.
rushing TD's allowed- 23- 32rd in the league.

A run defense worse than even the rebuilding year of 2001.

But we can't blame Byrd, based on your article.
Hell we can't blame anyone based on your article.

Weaksauce?

Yeah, that's weaksauce.

Screw that...I'll go with Vince

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vyRSV9eqTUY?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Bad teams don't have good players. Got it. Very convincing.

[coastal]

Well, your criticism is misplaced. Much of the support for Mario was that it indicated a break from cash to cap, and a willingness to actually compete.

But now Levitre was overrated and Byrd is a malcontent. It isn't Mario's fault the Bills won't try to put their best team on the field.

Sure, there are better ways to spend our money than on a wussy DE, but the real problem isn't our stupid allocation of limit resources. It's how limited our resources are.
Mario wasn't an end to cash to crap.

it was a marketing scam.

[jimmifli]

Mario wasn't an end to cash to crap.

it was a marketing scam.
But he isn't the problem

[cookie G]

Bad teams don't have good players. Got it. Very convincing.

surest-tackling-safeties-in-the-NFL don't make plays like this:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000112656/RB-Lynch-54-yd-run

I'm sure it didn't count as a "missed tackle" in your article, since he ran away from Beastmode.

[coastal]

But he isn't the problem
No Mario isn't.

hes a symptom of the larger issues.

[jimmifli]

surest-tackling-safeties-in-the-NFL don't make plays like this:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000112656/RB-Lynch-54-yd-run

I'm sure it didn't count as a "missed tackle" in your article, since he ran away from Beastmode.
Well now I'm convinced.

[Skooby]

The whole defense missed last season, paying any of them more than average market is cringeworthy.

[cookie G]

Well now I'm convinced.

Another Night Train Byrd highlight. 84 more yards.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000082985/Week-7-Chris-Johnson-highlights

There's hope. Pettine's system is supposed to hide the weaknesses it some players.

Maybe it won't make him confront running backs.

[Skooby]

Another Night Train Byrd highlight. 84 more yards.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000082985/Week-7-Chris-Johnson-highlights

There's hope. Pettine's system is supposed to hide the weaknesses it some players.

Maybe it won't make him confront running backs.

Best. Tackler. Ever. LOL, where do people come up with this crap?

[jimmifli]

Another Night Train Byrd highlight. 84 more yards.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000082985/Week-7-Chris-Johnson-highlights

There's hope. Pettine's system is supposed to hide the weaknesses it some players.

Maybe it won't make him confront running backs.

Yeah, the D sucked. You think that play was Byrd's fault? You're just angry and grasping.

[jimmifli]

Best. Tackler. Ever. LOL, where do people come up with this crap?
Hey Gil, you know you're hitting homeruns when you can generate this kind of support. Keep up the good work!

[TedMock]

Valid points but Byrd went from 9 INT's in year one to 9 INT's in next 3 years combined, his level of production dropped. Can you please clarify what production besides tackling you're referring too ??
His number of picks dropped but his level of production has not. He has been much better in run defense. He takes better angles and gets to the ball carrier a lot faster than he did a few years ago. From a coverage perspective - 5 picks last year. These came on only 21 targets. QBs do not go near him and he makes them pay in the limited times they do. In fact, he only allowed a passer rating of 56.9 against him. Best of his career.

[kishoph]

Another Night Train Byrd highlight. 84 more yards.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000082985/Week-7-Chris-Johnson-highlights

There's hope. Pettine's system is supposed to hide the weaknesses it some players.

Maybe it won't make him confront running backs.

The first 2 plays Byrd looked uninterested, he might of been thinking about his upcoming contract. On the 3rd play, the TE that's pulling makes the best tackle (on Byrd) in the video. I've been critical of Byrd in the past, but he had a pretty good season last year, but still, in no way do I think he's deserves $9 Million a year.

[Skooby]

His number of picks dropped but his level of production has not. He has been much better in run defense. He takes better angles and gets to the ball carrier a lot faster than he did a few years ago. From a coverage perspective - 5 picks last year. These came on only 21 targets. QBs do not go near him and he makes them pay in the limited times they do. In fact, he only allowed a passer rating of 56.9 against him. Best of his career.

When the team is last or second last in run defense, it's hard to say any one player from the team was much in run defense. It actually seems illogical to even fathom, it's near blind love.

- - - Updated - - -


Hey Gil, you know you're hitting homeruns when you can generate this kind of support. Keep up the good work!

Yeah, ummm no.

[JoeMama]

But he isn't the problem

I agree.

Neither Mario William$ nor his contract are prohibiting the Bills from succeeding.

I get that we overpaid for MW but how else can we make Buffalo a relevant destination for free agents?

We don't have a winning culture. We don't have a great locker room. We don't have a sexy city to sell.

Money is only thing there is.

So spend freely. We're not in cap trouble. And it's not like I care if Ralph Wilson has to shave a few bills off his money pile.

[coastal]

Money is only thing there is.
Thats only because the organization sucks.

You don't make it better by just spending more.

[TedMock]

When the team is last or second last in run defense, it's hard to say any one player from the team was much in run defense. It actually seems illogical to even fathom, it's near blind love.

I gave you factual information and you come up with this? The TEAM run defense did suck. You're right about that. To say that not one singel player could improve because of that is an extraordinary leap. Re-watch the games. Count how many times Byrd lined up in the box versus when he lined outside of 8 yards from the LOS. Then, count the number of tackles he made in run support and where he made them. Also, pay attention to what the DL and LB's did on each play. You will find that he made almost 10% of the team's tackles when he was in run support and he did it within his area and despite the clean holes the RB's had. Not a good thing to have your FS making all those run stops. TONS of missed assignmets or just horribly limited scheme for the front seven. It's not blind love for a player. It's watching the game and actually paying attention to detail. Not just looking at the stat sheet and making leaping assumptions.

[Skooby]

I gave you factual information and you come up with this? The TEAM run defense did suck. You're right about that. To say that not one singel player could improve because of that is an extraordinary leap. Re-watch the games. Count how many times Byrd lined up in the box versus when he lined outside of 8 yards from the LOS. Then, count the number of tackles he made in run support and where he made them. Also, pay attention to what the DL and LB's did on each play. You will find that he made almost 10% of the team's tackles when he was in run support and he did it within his area and despite the clean holes the RB's had. Not a good thing to have your FS making all those run stops. TONS of missed assignmets or just horribly limited scheme for the front seven. It's not blind love for a player. It's watching the game and actually paying attention to detail. Not just looking at the stat sheet and making leaping assumptions.

Players play in those schemes, we were at the bottom of the league in almost every measurable event on defense. Byrd played better than a typical guy at his position, does that mean he deserves to be the highest paid player at it ??

[TedMock]

Players play in those schemes, we were at the bottom of the league in almost every measurable event on defense. Byrd played better than a typical guy at his position, does that mean he deserves to be the highest paid player at it ??

I believe a player should be paid as they deserve to be comparatively. In saying that, I do not necessarily consider absolute stats. Instead I look at overall production relative to your surroundings, scheme, strengths, weaknesses within scheme, etc. Having said that, William Moore has 5 years, $30 million in Atlanta and Dashon Goldston has 5 years $41.25 million in Tampa.

Then, I just found this little tidbit from PFF:

Undervalued

1. Jairus Byrd, Safety

In 2011 Byrd did enough to convince us big things were in store for his future. Well, 2012 was an even bigger step forward where he put forth a season that should have earned him All-Pro honors. He finished second in our safety rankings with the highest grade of all his peers in coverage. That’s what happens when you’re targeted 21 times and manage to pick off five balls and not allow a single touchdown.

2012 Cap Hit: $1.1m
2012 Performance Based Value: $8.8m
Value Differential: +$7.8m

So, our front office has to decide where he is potentially slotted amongst all FS, but also weighing (more or less - not my call) how much potential impact he may have in this particular scheme when considering his strengths, weaknesses and style. If the answer is "big," then, yes, pay him.

[JoeMama]

Thats only because the organization sucks.

You don't make it better by just spending more.

Yeah, but it doesn't hurt.

We suck at evaluating talent, which is our real problem. But I think it's a good sign we're at least blowing cobwebs off the team checkbook.

We're the Bills. If we're not overpaying, no one's coming here.

[jimmifli]

We're the Bills. If we're not overpaying, no one's coming here.

When we draft them they don't have a choice. But then we don't resign them because they missed a tackle in a preseason game or can't catch an untouched Chris Johnson.

[Skooby]

I believe a player should be paid as they deserve to be comparatively. In saying that, I do not necessarily consider absolute stats. Instead I look at overall production relative to your surroundings, scheme, strengths, weaknesses within scheme, etc. Having said that, William Moore has 5 years, $30 million in Atlanta and Dashon Goldston has 5 years $41.25 million in Tampa.

Then, I just found this little tidbit from PFF:

Undervalued

1. Jairus Byrd, Safety

In 2011 Byrd did enough to convince us big things were in store for his future. Well, 2012 was an even bigger step forward where he put forth a season that should have earned him All-Pro honors. He finished second in our safety rankings with the highest grade of all his peers in coverage. That’s what happens when you’re targeted 21 times and manage to pick off five balls and not allow a single touchdown.

2012 Cap Hit: $1.1m
2012 Performance Based Value: $8.8m
Value Differential: +$7.8m

So, our front office has to decide where he is potentially slotted amongst all FS, but also weighing (more or less - not my call) how much potential impact he may have in this particular scheme when considering his strengths, weaknesses and style. If the answer is "big," then, yes, pay him.

Well this writer's value opinion is obviously the end all be all of how it should go.

[JoeMama]

When we draft them they don't have a choice. But then we don't resign them because they missed a tackle in a preseason game or can't catch an untouched Chris Johnson.

And next thing you know they're in the probowl representing San Francisco, Miami, or Seattle.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/NO-1-1_zps0eb704b4.gif (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/JoeMama025/media/NO-1-1_zps0eb704b4.gif.html)

[TedMock]

Well this writer's value opinion is obviously the end all be all of how it should go.

Huh? I never suggested that. I just pointed it out because it's a highly respected analytical site. Just something to consider. A tool. None of them are the end all be all. This guy just happens to be in line with me on the topic. There are others who disagree. As long as you give real solid evidence to support your opinion I will respect it. This site generally takes emotion out of everything which is why I like it.

[cookie G]

Yeah, the D sucked. You think that play was Byrd's fault? You're just angry and grasping.

Of course it was his fault. Only those who refuse to admit he does anything wrong, ever, don't realize it.

I posted this earlier in the thread, former safety Matt Bowen analyzed the play a the National Football Post.

16504
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Playbook-Chris-Johnson-runs-past-the-Bills.html

What Bowen said:

- The Bills need their FS, Jairus Byrd (orange), to take the proper angle and make an open field tackle. However, Byrd wants to drive straight downhill and enter the run front. As a FS, you must keep your depth. Remember, you are a “secondary” run defender and have to give yourself enough room to take an angle that allows you to make the tackle. Get the ball carrier on the ground and live to see another down. That’s your job.



- Look at Byrd here. There is no need for the FS to be down near the box in this situation. Because he doesn’t have depth when this ball breaks, Byrd now has to take a flat angle vs. the vertical speed of Johnson. That’s bad football. As I said above, give yourself room, take a 45-degree angle, come to balance and make the play.

Matt Bowen is desperate and cranky also.

But I'll add...

one guy in the pic wasn't blocked -(well Wilson wasn't, but he filled the playside hole and Johnson ran away from it)
one guy in the pick had a 20 yard cushion between himself and Johnson;
one guy had the responsibility on the play as the last line of defense.

But it wasn't that guy's fault..it was everyone else's fault.


Because god knows we can't criticize him...because that would disloyal...or something..

Besides its a lot easier just to say, "it isn't his fault".

Sorry, the only reason I came into this thread is when people started talking about how good he is in run defense. I already said I think he's a good centerfielder.

I said he can avoid contact, take bad angles and miss open field tackles and showed examples of each.

I didnt' realize that when analyzing his play, you're either with him or against him.

Good lord.

[Skooby]

Huh? I never suggested that. I just pointed it out because it's a highly respected analytical site. Just something to consider. A tool. None of them are the end all be all. This guy just happens to be in line with me on the topic. There are others who disagree. As long as you give real solid evidence to support your opinion I will respect it. This site generally takes emotion out of everything which is why I like it.

I'm just messing with you there, obviously. I think Byrd really deserves about $8.5 M a year with a $18-$20 M guaranteed aspect on a 5 year deal. I think the extra $500,000 or so needs to used towards other variables in the organization (IMO). He's a great playmaker & can make great things happen at his position, it's just we can't pay him everything he's looking to get.

I think that they'll bridge the gap come July 15th & all will be well.

[GvilleBills]

Cookie, you've shown two plays. Over the last 2 seasons, the growth as a run defender has been one of the few bright spots. Byrd has made many a play in the open field to stop a play, far more than he's missed. Total package. If we let him hit the open market, I think the league would agree.

[cookie G]

Cookie, you've shown two plays. Over the last 2 seasons, the growth as a run defender has been one of the few bright spots. Byrd has made many a play in the open field to stop a play, far more than he's missed. Total package. If we let him hit the open market, I think the league would agree.

Yeah, well Bill, when the Bills aren't among the NFL leaders in long runs allowed (bottom 5 for 4 straight seasons!), I'll hold off on the Total Packagedness moniker.

The Man Who Ran from Marshawn Lynch is probably more fitting in terms of his run D.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

aaron Williams will be fine, if not really good. trade him for high picks!

[GvilleBills]

Yeah, well Bill, when the Bills aren't among the NFL leaders in long runs allowed (bottom 5 for 4 straight seasons!), I'll hold off on the Total Packagedness moniker.

The Man Who Ran from Marshawn Lynch is probably more fitting in terms of his run D.
That's the beauty of opinions my brotha. I've seen serious growth in run support, coming up making sticks. I can't condemn his career off of 2 plays. By no means will I put everything on everyone else, but IMO he made more TD saving tackles than anyone.

[GvilleBills]

Easy to forget about plays made when the next play goes for 60, but they're not all his fault. In the team game no one deserves all the credit or blame. For my money, he was making the majority of the plays made by our secondary and he absolutely deserves to be paid top dollar.