Waterfront stadium talks

[X-Era]

http://www.wben.com/Architects-to-Talk-Waterfront-Stadium-Today/16676124

[Joe Fo Sho]

8 years to build it? Why so long?

[OpIv37]

I don't care about parking per se. I do, however, care about a closely related issue: tailgating. That's what kept people going to the games despite the team being so terrible for so long. Any waterfront or downtown stadium better have large open-air lots to keep the tailgating culture alive. Otherwise, the team is in for a world of hurt.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Buffalo will never get a Superbowl. As much as I love it, it's hardly a destination.

[OpIv37]

Buffalo will never get a Superbowl. As much as I love it, it's hardly a destination.

More importantly, the city lacks the infrastructure. There just aren't enough hotels.

[JoeMama]

Looks good.

The proposed facility is more ambitious than just a new stadium. Apparently it will be a major entertainment complex to draw in other sports and events as well.

But whatever dollar figure HKS is looking to extract from Eric County, I have to guess funds are limited and will be an issue.

BTW another image of the proposed facility...

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/391020_376994365749679_901886838_n_zps354ddc2d.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/JoeMama025/media/391020_376994365749679_901886838_n_zps354ddc2d.jpg.html)

[jdaltroy5]

Is the facade all glass and concrete?

I think a nice red brick veneer instead of the concrete would be much nicer.

[JoeMama]

Is the facade all glass and concrete?

I think a nice red brick veneer instead of the concrete would be much nicer.

True, the glass and concrete facade has a tendency to look barren and desolate as time passes.

Makes me think of most of North Korea. Just sprawling gray concrete everywhere.

[Night Train]

8 years to build it? Why so long?

50 actual workers and 500 supervisors, arguing over what needs to be done. Planned gridlock. :up:

[sukie]

50 actual workers and 500 supervisors, arguing over what needs to be done. Planned gridlock. :up:

not to mention the 45 NFTA officials collecting fees for air, dirt, cloud cover.

[jdaltroy5]

True, the glass and concrete facade has a tendency to look barren and desolate as time passes.

Makes me think of most of North Korea. Just sprawling gray concrete everywhere.
My guess is that the Architects were trying to achieve an accurate representation of our hopes and dreams after 50 years of Buffalo Bills football.

[Mouldsie]

As long as we keep the skyway

[BLeonard]

8 years to build it? Why so long?

My guess would be, the 8 years would be for the entire project, not just the stadium.

Where I live, they built a new minor league baseball stadium a few years back... While it only took a year and a half or so to build the actual stadium, all of the items that were built around it (such as a hotel, apartment complex, etc) took much longer to build. The team started playing in the stadium in 2009, while the other stuff wasn't completed until just recently (and, to be honest, I haven't been down there in a while, so it still might not be 100% completed).

-Bill

[TacklingDummy]

I hope they don't put the $130 million in upgrades to the current facility if they plan on building a new one.

[OpIv37]

My guess would be, the 8 years would be for the entire project, not just the stadium.

Where I live, they built a new minor league baseball stadium a few years back... While it only took a year and a half or so to build the actual stadium, all of the items that were built around it (such as a hotel, apartment complex, etc) took much longer to build. The team started playing in the stadium in 2009, while the other stuff wasn't completed until just recently (and, to be honest, I haven't been down there in a while, so it still might not be 100% completed).

-Bill

Same thing with Nationals Park in DC. I think it took about two years to build the stadium- probably about a year of actual construction after a year of clearing the site of all the decrepit buildings that were down there. But the economy tanked shortly after it opened, and even though it's been open for 5 or 6 seasons now, they are just getting caught up on building everything around it.

[jdaltroy5]

My guess would be, the 8 years would be for the entire project, not just the stadium.

Where I live, they built a new minor league baseball stadium a few years back... While it only took a year and a half or so to build the actual stadium, all of the items that were built around it (such as a hotel, apartment complex, etc) took much longer to build. The team started playing in the stadium in 2009, while the other stuff wasn't completed until just recently (and, to be honest, I haven't been down there in a while, so it still might not be 100% completed).

-Bill
You gotta remember that a project that big could easily spend 2-3 years in the design development phase. They also have to do soil analysis, check the water table, and prepare any possible shoring and retaining walls.

Not to mention if they are going to be changing the infrastructure to actually get to the building.

[Skooby]

This would change the landscape of Buffalo, we need to attract more NY Bank addressees to make huge positive things happen. Not many know this but Buffalo was literally the center hub of trading early in the 20th century. Things do have a tendency to come around again, with the proper planning. This being a huge step in that direction, hopefully the right people are listening.

[better days]

I have never been a fan of domed stadiums. Been in a few & I just did not like the atmosphere. I must admit I was happy to be in a dome in Pontiac Mich for a game when the weather was just brutal. FREEZING COLD BLOWING SNOW. But still I did not really like the atmosphere of that Stadium.

I am really intrigued by the new Vikings Stadium however. A translucent roof, it looks pretty sweet. If a new Stadium is built on the waterfront, I think a translucent roof is the way to go.

[OpIv37]

I hope they don't put the $130 million in upgrades to the current facility if they plan on building a new one.

the upgrade to the current stadium was always a band-aid. As soon as they came up with the new lease, it was pretty obvious that it'll be the last one for the Ralph.

[alnilla]

But how are the bathrooms.............

[DesertFox24]

Hopefully we will know soon that they will build this stadium. I think that will go a long way to preventing a new owner from moving the team.

For what it is worth I kind of hope Ralph sells the team to Jim Kelly, Thurman, and Brandon for a respectably cheap sum (500 mil). The reason I say that is I am not sure he or his family are really looking for a huge payday, but more so extending his legacy of pro football in lovely western NY.



Cough PIPE DREAM cough

[BLeonard]

You gotta remember that a project that big could easily spend 2-3 years in the design development phase. They also have to do soil analysis, check the water table, and prepare any possible shoring and retaining walls.

Not to mention if they are going to be changing the infrastructure to actually get to the building.

Absolutely true as well.

The only thing I was getting at is, the "8 year" number isn't just for the actual building of the physical stadium, it's for the entire project.

-Bill

[more cowbell]

While tailgating at the Ralph is most likely the best the league has to offer...it's time to get with the modern era.

I'll use Pittsburgh as an example. Granted, Pittsburgh is a slightly bigger city, but their entire downtown area used to be a disaster, and now it is completely revitalized. a major component to this was building Heinz Field and PNC Park downtown, which attracted more and more people to the area. Heinz Field was kept at a "medium" sized capacity, which would also be a wise idea for the Bills, because they could raise ticket prices slightly, and always have the stadium filled (assuming the team actually shows a pulse with the new regime).

Building a new stadium downtown, and using it for concerts, conventions, the NCAA Tournament, WILL attract people to the downtown area, and will in turn allow the development of more hotels, and even more attractions down there....you have to start somewhere.

Go Bills.

[OpIv37]

While tailgating at the Ralph is most likely the best the league has to offer...it's time to get with the modern era.

I'll use Pittsburgh as an example. Granted, Pittsburgh is a slightly bigger city, but their entire downtown area used to be a disaster, and now it is completely revitalized. a major component to this was building Heinz Field and PNC Park downtown, which attracted more and more people to the area. Heinz Field was kept at a "medium" sized capacity, which would also be a wise idea for the Bills, because they could raise ticket prices slightly, and always have the stadium filled (assuming the team actually shows a pulse with the new regime).

Building a new stadium downtown, and using it for concerts, conventions, the NCAA Tournament, WILL attract people to the downtown area, and will in turn allow the development of more hotels, and even more attractions down there....you have to start somewhere.

Go Bills.

Two things:

First, Pittsburgh has baseball, which is 82 home games a year. Football is 8 home games a year- 10 counting preseason. That's not enough to make a big impact, so the complex will have to build up a backlog of events to make it worthwhile.

Second, the tailgating can't be neglected because it's probably the biggest single reason why the fans still show up despite 13 years of failure. Even when the game itself was miserable, people still enjoyed game day because of all the fun in the lots. If we're in the playoffs every year, people won't care as much about tailgating because the team itself will be a draw. Until then, eliminating or heavily restricting tailgating could have a drastic impact on attendance.

[more cowbell]

Agreed on both accounts. It's hard for me to not believe that a new stadium downtown wouldn't attract more people and events to the area. Especially if there were plenty of events going on during the football off-season.

But yes...they need to start WINNING regardless is the bottom line.




Two things:

First, Pittsburgh has baseball, which is 82 home games a year. Football is 8 home games a year- 10 counting preseason. That's not enough to make a big impact, so the complex will have to build up a backlog of events to make it worthwhile.

Second, the tailgating can't be neglected because it's probably the biggest single reason why the fans still show up despite 13 years of failure. Even when the game itself was miserable, people still enjoyed game day because of all the fun in the lots. If we're in the playoffs every year, people won't care as much about tailgating because the team itself will be a draw. Until then, eliminating or heavily restricting tailgating could have a drastic impact on attendance.

[tomz]

Two things:

First, Pittsburgh has baseball, which is 82 home games a year. Football is 8 home games a year- 10 counting preseason. That's not enough to make a big impact, so the complex will have to build up a backlog of events to make it worthwhile.

Second, the tailgating can't be neglected because it's probably the biggest single reason why the fans still show up despite 13 years of failure. Even when the game itself was miserable, people still enjoyed game day because of all the fun in the lots. If we're in the playoffs every year, people won't care as much about tailgating because the team itself will be a draw. Until then, eliminating or heavily restricting tailgating could have a drastic impact on attendance.

I agree with OpIV. Waterfront stadiums, especially for football, are an enormous waste of a public good--access to the water. Much better to have a nice waterfront park. I used to live in Cleveland and their downtown waterfront is awful There have been articles in the paper there talking about how Buffalo does it better! Browns stadium is a joke. I have been in cities around the world and the most lively have the most attractions that are used frequently on their waterfronts, not big stadium builds. Stadiums create sterile zones for blocks around them--not what you want in a vibrant, walkable, user-friendly city area.

If anything, they should try to clear and remake a blighted area with good transportation into it or the possibility of it. How about between Broadway and William as one approaches downtown? you have access from 90 via Elm/Oak, 33, and lots of spurs in all directions. Then incentivize to get the surrounding sports-affiliated stuff.

[jdaltroy5]

I agree with OpIV. Waterfront stadiums, especially for football, are an enormous waste of a public good--access to the water. Much better to have a nice waterfront park. I used to live in Cleveland and their downtown waterfront is awful There have been articles in the paper there talking about how Buffalo does it better! Browns stadium is a joke. I have been in cities around the world and the most lively have the most attractions that are used frequently on their waterfronts, not big stadium builds. Stadiums create sterile zones for blocks around them--not what you want in a vibrant, walkable, user-friendly city area.

If anything, they should try to clear and remake a blighted area with good transportation into it or the possibility of it. How about between Broadway and William as one approaches downtown? you have access from 90 via Elm/Oak, 33, and lots of spurs in all directions. Then incentivize to get the surrounding sports-affiliated stuff.
The Rogers Centre in Toronto is right near the water and it absolutely is not dead. I know it's used for baseball, but that only accounts for 81 days. The other time, it's still very lively around the stadium because they have built it up.

[Skooby]

Do you think we could attract a major league baseball team to Buffalo ?? We have enough people to draw 25-30,000 an average game I would think.

[BLeonard]

Do you think we could attract a major league baseball team to Buffalo ?? We have enough people to draw 25-30,000 an average game I would think.

No.

...And, it's not because Buffalo isn't a good enough town or whatnot, but there are currently 30 teams and many feel that the talent is already watered down with 30 teams (especially pitching). So, expansion isn't gonna happen.

That means, a current team would have to move to Buffalo... I can't think of a team that would move and even if I could, I highly doubt Buffalo would be the prime destination.

-Bill

[Meathead]

man we had one drunk die in three inches of water last season, how many are we gonna dredge up when patrons falling out of their seats end up in the niagara

[tomz]

The Rogers Centre in Toronto is right near the water and it absolutely is not dead. I know it's used for baseball, but that only accounts for 81 days. The other time, it's still very lively around the stadium because they have built it up.

Granted it is busy in downtown Toronto but it still does not promote good use of the waterfront. And the $$ poured into Toronto's downtown/waterfront (I remember 20 years go hearing about investments by the gov't on the order of billions) are not going to be duplicated in Buffalo with an order of magnitude. AND they started with an already vibrant downtown. That said, having been in TO a couples times recently, they have basically built a fortress of buildings that essentially makes the waterfront invisible and inaccessible from downtown.

But let's talk about cities vaguely similar in size and culture. Ever been to Cleveland? Cincinnati? Destroyed public access to the water.

[Skooby]

man we had one drunk die in three inches of water last season, how many are we gonna dredge up when patrons falling out of their seats end up in the niagara

They just need to put beer carts with signs pointing away from the water, then no one will ever drown.

[BillsFever21]

That would be nice if Buffalo had a baseball team. I doubt it would be a huge hit though. Between already having the Bills and Sabres I'm not sure if there would be enough ticket sales to go around in a little city like Buffalo. The baseball team would have the Sabres to compete with early in the season and then the Bills to compete with the 2nd half of the season.

The Bills are only 7 regular season games out of the year but it still commits a big chunk of the entertainment dollar for the city. They definitely wouldn't get an expansion team if the league added more teams and like BLeonard said I can't see an owner moving a team there.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Explain your point.

[Saratoga Slim]

How much does the First Niagara Center do for downtown? I fear that there may be an overvaluation of additional value that the stadium complex could bring. Buffalo can already host concerts and events in the FNC. Conventions are nice....but companies/groups typically like to have their conventions in places where their people are excited to go to. The largest convention cities in the US are Vegas, Chicago, Orlando, NYC and LA/Anaheim. I don't know a ton about that business, but let's just say I'm skeptical.

[Dude]

Without a commensurate investment in infrastructure, a new stadium/entertainment complex on the waterfront isn't going to be able to host high-profile events. Buffalo doesn't have the hotel space to pull off something like a Super Bowl or even a Final Four.

[better days]

No.

...And, it's not because Buffalo isn't a good enough town or whatnot, but there are currently 30 teams and many feel that the talent is already watered down with 30 teams (especially pitching). So, expansion isn't gonna happen.

That means, a current team would have to move to Buffalo... I can't think of a team that would move and even if I could, I highly doubt Buffalo would be the prime destination.

-Bill

I have been in the dome to see the Rays play & I have seen the Bisons in Buffalo. I would choose a Bisons game over a Rays game in the dome any day. MUCH better experience even if it is minor league baseball.

[DraftBoy]

Second, the tailgating can't be neglected because it's probably the biggest single reason why the fans still show up despite 13 years of failure. Even when the game itself was miserable, people still enjoyed game day because of all the fun in the lots. If we're in the playoffs every year, people won't care as much about tailgating because the team itself will be a draw. Until then, eliminating or heavily restricting tailgating could have a drastic impact on attendance.

I'd be interested to see any research anybody has done into that. Buffalo is different then many pro sports towns and I wonder if that would resonate to tailgating. I don't know what the impact would be but it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills new stadium limited tailgating from what it is now. NFL (hell all sports) has taken a pretty good beating the last few years for drunken crazies before, during, and after games leading to car crashes, fights, and other idiotic episodes.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

One thing that's not being mentioned is that the baseball stadiums bring people to the waterfront in the summer - the time when people actually want to go to the waterfront. Football stadiums bring people there in the fall and winter when the waterfront area of a northeastern city is not a comfortable place to be.

I think putting a football stadium there would be a horrible idea. Buffalo is not getting a Final Four or a Super Bowl. I think the best case scenario is a lower-tier college bowl game or the MAC championship.

[OpIv37]

I'd be interested to see any research anybody has done into that. Buffalo is different then many pro sports towns and I wonder if that would resonate to tailgating. I don't know what the impact would be but it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills new stadium limited tailgating from what it is now. NFL (hell all sports) has taken a pretty good beating the last few years for drunken crazies before, during, and after games leading to car crashes, fights, and other idiotic episodes.
They've already cracked down a little in some of the official stadium lots, which forced the Pinto Ron tailgate to move to a private lot (it was a big deal on this site when it happened last year). There isn't much they can do about the tailgating in private lots, and there are a lot of private lots around the Ralph.

The NFL always toes the line on this issue. They want the party atmosphere to attract alcohol sponsors and that coveted 18-35 y/o male demographic. But at the same time, they don't want the liability and they don't want people thinking that games are too rowdy for families.

Any downtown stadium would undoubtably come with tailgating restrictions, but I think the NFL and the team have to think long and hard about how much they want to restrict it.

[more cowbell]

You are absolutely correct that conventions are held in "attractive cities" However, Indianapolis is one of the convention capitols of the U.S.

If Indianapolis can pull it off...I think Buffalo can pull it off.

[better days]

You are absolutely correct that conventions are held in "attractive cities" However, Indianapolis is one of the convention capitols of the U.S.

If Indianapolis can pull it off...I think Buffalo can pull it off.

Well, Indy does have the INDY 500 going for it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Well, Indy does have the INDY 500 going for it.

And we have Niagara Falls going for it which is available 24/7, 365. The Indy 500 is one day a year.

[Mouldsie]

Indy has a much more well designed city than we do. More hotels and everything within walking distance.

[DraftBoy]

Did anybody bother to read what Indy did for the Super Bowl? They built completely enclosed catwalks all over the downtown area where all the festivities would be held so people wouldn't have to be out in the cold. They also have a ton of hotels, and a really good downtown scene with bars and restaurants. I don't know that Buffalo has any of that in terms of how much they'd need to host a few 100K people.

[coastal]

Maybe they can put it at the old Bethlehem Steel site... I mean after they get the cyanide pools cleaned up.

[Historian]

Maybe they can put it at the old Bethlehem Steel site... I mean after they get the cyanide pools cleaned up.

You're semi-joking, but that's where I always thought it should go.

Think of the acres of parking.

Then I saw a piece on tv about how Allentown took a steel mill and converted it to restaurants, etc.

Could even have a Steel Museum" and a "Grain Elevator Museum".

I think the possibilities are endless.

[sukie]

You're semi-joking, but that's where I always thought it should go.

Think of the acres of parking.

Then I saw a piece on tv about how Allentown took a steel mill and converted it to restaurants, etc.

Could even have a Steel Museum" and a "Grain Elevator Museum".

I think the possibilities are endless.

Toss in a BAss Pro shop and a waffle house... BOOM revitalization!!!!!

[DraftBoy]

You're semi-joking, but that's where I always thought it should go.

Think of the acres of parking.

Then I saw a piece on tv about how Allentown took a steel mill and converted it to restaurants, etc.

Could even have a Steel Museum" and a "Grain Elevator Museum".

I think the possibilities are endless.

Based on how big/long the pools have been there the enviro work could be a nightmare both in cost and regulatory compliance.

[JoeMama]

Based on how big/long the pools have been there the enviro work could be a nightmare both in cost and regulatory compliance.

No way, cyanide pools would be perfect near a new Bills stadium.

I kinda feel like dying most Sundays around 4pm.

[Typ0]

You are absolutely correct that conventions are held in "attractive cities" However, Indianapolis is one of the convention capitols of the U.S.

If Indianapolis can pull it off...I think Buffalo can pull it off.

Indianapolis has a geographical advantage in that it's more centrally located to bring people together from the west and the east...which is why it works.

[coastal]

Based on how big/long the pools have been there the enviro work could be a nightmare both in cost and regulatory compliance.
It's in the water tables...

What happened in Lackawanna is nothing short of a mass crime and the evidence is quietly rotting for all to witness.

[sukie]

It's in the water tables...

What happened in Lackawanna is nothing short of a mass crime and the evidence is quietly rotting for all to witness.

What Enviro work. Pave over it. Build on it. Bring in bottled water. Done. (Oh and educate tailgaters that there is no 5 second rule on dropped Sahlens.)

[Dude]

Indianapolis has a geographical advantage in that it's more centrally located to bring people together from the west and the east...which is why it works.
It also works because they completely reinvented their downtown core to make it more of a draw. Tons of stuff to do there and it's all walkable, which is a plus for anyone visiting from out of town.

[DraftBoy]

It's in the water tables...

What happened in Lackawanna is nothing short of a mass crime and the evidence is quietly rotting for all to witness.

Well that should (key word) make it un-buildable land, but we both know how that goes.

[Typ0]

It also works because they completely reinvented their downtown core to make it more of a draw. Tons of stuff to do there and it's all walkable, which is a plus for anyone visiting from out of town.

and that angle does not work in Buffalo because it's not centrally located for east meets west conventions. If conventions want to come all the way to the east coast they are going to NYC.

[DraftBoy]

It also works because they completely reinvented their downtown core to make it more of a draw. Tons of stuff to do there and it's all walkable, which is a plus for anyone visiting from out of town.

The work their planning and development folks did years in advance was quite smart. Really got undersold during all the coverage, but some really well designed and out of the box type solutions for a city. Wish more would follow.

[justasportsfan]

Did anybody bother to read what Indy did for the Super Bowl? They built completely enclosed catwalks all over the downtown area where all the festivities would be held so people wouldn't have to be out in the cold. They also have a ton of hotels, and a really good downtown scene with bars and restaurants. I don't know that Buffalo has any of that in terms of how much they'd need to host a few 100K people.


"IF you build it, they will come."

[Historian]

Based on how big/long the pools have been there the enviro work could be a nightmare both in cost and regulatory compliance.

It has to be dealt with at some point, does it not?

I prefer sooner than later.

[Dude]

and that angle does not work in Buffalo because it's not centrally located for east meets west conventions. If conventions want to come all the way to the east coast they are going to NYC.You're probably right. But then again, Buffalo wouldn't really compete with NYC for conventions simply due to the disparity in size of convention space and infrastructure. The larger shows that go to cities like NYC, Chicago, Vegas, etc. wouldn't consider Buffalo.

Buffalo could, however, carve out a niche to attract small to mid-size groups if it had a more viable downtown.

[PromoTheRobot]

Buffalo will never get a Superbowl. As much as I love it, it's hardly a destination.

No but Niagara Falls can be. If they can have SBs in Minneapolis, Detroit and Jacksonville they could do one here. And don't forget the work around Canalside. Three new hotels plus the casino. It's a start.

PTR

[DraftBoy]

It has to be dealt with at some point, does it not?

I prefer sooner than later.

Nope, they could simply condemn the area and never develop it at all. You're talking about tens of millions (if not hundreds) and years (if not decades) of clean-up work. If the cyanide is in the water table (as Coastal said) then its probably best left alone.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

No but Niagara Falls can be. If they can have SBs in Minneapolis, Detroit and Jacksonville they could do one here. And don't forget the work around Canalside. Three new hotels plus the casino. It's a start.

PTR

The Minny and Detroit super bowls were one time offers because they build new stadiums, and Jacksonville was such a disaster they will never host again.

[trapezeus]

minnesota is a big city. they have a vibrant night life and plenty of large corporations that support their sports teams. we don't.

a superbowl is many years away for buffalo. while the stadium might help get others to develop, the buffalo region could not handle the hub-bub of a superbowl thebig money won't find the statler towers and adam's mark good enough and the suburban sprawl will make everyone else very frustrated that you have to schlep around and potentially get lost.

It will never happen in our lifetimes.

[DesertFox24]

Sorry I live out west and am curious, is there a cyanid issue at the proposed waterfront location or is this another location that is now dead due to environmental issues?

[Don't Panic]

Super Bowl is a luxury... this could and should work with or without a SB. We need a niche to make Buffalo marketable, something that hasn't been stumbled on yet. I was recently reminded about what a great city Buffalo once was... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1625340060/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0SK9AFTVVDZ7476MNB8N&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846. No reason to think we can't get there again, albeit in a much different way.

[jdaltroy5]

minnesota is a big city. they have a vibrant night life and plenty of large corporations that support their sports teams. we don't.

a superbowl is many years away for buffalo. while the stadium might help get others to develop, the buffalo region could not handle the hub-bub of a superbowl thebig money won't find the statler towers and adam's mark good enough and the suburban sprawl will make everyone else very frustrated that you have to schlep around and potentially get lost.

It will never happen in our lifetimes.
Minnesota is a big city?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Minnesota is a big city?

So big they have their own senators in Congress.

[better days]

minnesota is a big city. they have a vibrant night life and plenty of large corporations that support their sports teams. we don't.

a superbowl is many years away for buffalo. while the stadium might help get others to develop, the buffalo region could not handle the hub-bub of a superbowl thebig money won't find the statler towers and adam's mark good enough and the suburban sprawl will make everyone else very frustrated that you have to schlep around and potentially get lost.

It will never happen in our lifetimes.

Minnesota is a COLD State next to the Dakotas, Minneapolis is a beautiful City in that State.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

True, the glass and concrete facade has a tendency to look barren and desolate as time passes.

Makes me think of most of North Korea. Just sprawling gray concrete everywhere.

Considering that I think that Ralph is our version of Kim Jong Il, I say that a concrete and glass facade is a perfect fit for this team.

[k-oneputt]

Super Bowl ? LOL. Just stop already. There will be no Super Bowl in Buffalo or a new lakefront stadium. If you are from the area you should know all the problems of trying to get things done. Be happy the Bills are still here in a refurbished Orchard Park stadium.

[stuckincincy]

Super Bowl ? LOL. Just stop already. There will be no Super Bowl in Buffalo or a new lakefront stadium. If you are from the area you should know all the problems of trying to get things done. Be happy the Bills are still here in a refurbished Orchard Park stadium.

Yep. It's been half a century or so, of one-party rule in Buffalo. That's not unique for big cities - see Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detriot etc. And the waterfront is dotted with subsidized housing for party faithfuls, current and retired. Good luck dislodging that.

[k-oneputt]

Yep. It's been half a century or so, of one-party rule in Buffalo. That's not unique for big cities - see Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detriot etc. And the waterfront is dotted with subsidized housing for party faithfuls, current and retired. Good luck dislodging that. But, but, but, but..........the same bs year after year.

[stuckincincy]

But, but, but, but..........the same bs year after year.

No end in sight.

[snow1989]

First off, I'd think someone would have to get some kind of guarantee that the bills will even still be here since this project might take according the the guy behind it; 5-6 years to complete the stadium. Sorry about until I see ink on a dotted line, team officials can claim their intentions to stay in buffalo all they want and it doesn't mean crap.

Second, people are already yapping about the $200 million in upgrades to the Ralph and whose paying what. The new stadium? 1.4 billion with 30% slated to tax-payers...that's a cool $420,000,000 folks...and that's before any environmental cleansing ( if required ), and before cost over-runs ( when is the last time you saw a project done on time, on target? Your kids school dio-rama doesn't count. )

An awful lot is going to have to happen before I think we see a new stadium, let alone some huge 'sports development'.