Marcell Dareus fighting for starting job

[Syderick]

Looks like Marcell Dareus is going to have to fight to keep his position this year:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000216903/article/buffalo-bills-marcell-dareus-fighting-for-starting-job

[The King]

I thought Carrington looked solid last year, he definitely played hungry.

[jdaltroy5]

I think they're just doing that to let him know that he's going to have to work for his job.

He's way too talented to be sitting on the bench.

[Meathead]

after what hes been through, including losing his brother at a young age which happened to me, i am willing to give him a pass on his very lackluster sophomore season. im surprised he could find it to the stadium every workday when that incident was so fresh, and believe me it will be fresh for a long time

now i think its very good for him to have serious challengers for his job. he should be to the point of resolution so a strong driving force will be a good thing for him. its something easy for him to get up for and channeling his focus should be just what he needs. should have a strong season

[better days]

Well, Marrone said there will be COMPETITION at every position. I like it, may the best man win.

[DynaPaul]

Good news, you have to earn your position - nothing is handed to you based on draft status.

[Scumbag College]

It'll be interesting to see the combination of players used in the front 7 of the defense going to a "hybrid 3-4" as has been advertised. The Bills have some talent on the defensive line but weak LBs. Starting or not, I think Carrington, Dareus, and the addition of Alan Branch gives the defense enough versatile, talented guys that can make up for the sub-par linebackers.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Optimist: Everyone has to earn their position!

Pessimist: Our 3rd overall pick can't win his job outright.

[Night Train]

No one should be handed a starting position with a new coach. Shut up and prove yourself.

[SpikedLemonade]

I hope Dareus finds himself since he has been nothing but a disappointment since he was drafted.

[TacklingDummy]

Looks like Marcell Dareus is going to have to fight to keep his position this year:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000216903/article/buffalo-bills-marcell-dareus-fighting-for-starting-job

Not surprised considering he's in the Top 5 for worst 1st round picks in the 2011 NFL Draft.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Finally a coaching staff that will light the fire under his ass. He's going to be much improved --as will everyone else -- if they know that they can't expect to play if they just want to pick up their paycheck.

[djjimkelly]

hes no bust hes no home run.

this year is going to explain his future as a bill

im pulling for him. he has shown flashes

[BillsFever21]

He has shown some potential so I'm not totally writing him off but he was the worse pick out of the top of the NFL Draft. All of the good players we passed on for Dareus. AJ Green would sure look good in a Bills uniform right now.

I really wanted Von Miller or AJ Green and we ended up with Dareus instead. Imagine if we had AJ Green or any of the non QB's from that top 10 or so like Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones, Aldon Smith or JJ Watt. One of the best drafts in years as far as impact players in the Top 10 or so and we end up with the worse one out of the group up to this point. Then of course we just totally blew our load on our second round pick with Aaron Williams.

[elltrain22]

This is a make or break year for Dareus. I don't know why, but I'm still a believer in this kid! If this coaching staff can keep him focused and confident, he might turn the corner.

[BertSquirtgum]

Dareus is so fat and lazy. No way he starts this year.

[GvilleBills]

Not giving up on the kid yet. Hope he reaches potential this year, I can't remember a draft pick I was more happy we got.

[Homegrown]

Optimist: Everyone has to earn their position!

Pessimist: Our 3rd overall pick can't win his job outright.

It's more of a "glass half full" vs. a "glass half empty" idiom ... just saying

[NOT THE DUDE...]

its frustrating because dareus has the " ability" to be an all time great dt. conditioning is part of that... hes simply too fat. anyone with a brain and basic knowledge about fitness can see that. he could be great at 305-300lbs. its up to him

- - - Updated - - -

either way, he can be good and at times dominant at 330, but if he wants to be special, then his conditioning and fitness needs to be at a professional level. bruce went through the same thing, only he was a de

[TacklingDummy]

I can name about 20 other draft picks I'd rather have in the 1st round of the 2011 Draft.

[better days]

I can name about 20 other draft picks I'd rather have in the 1st round of the 2011 Draft.

OK, name them.

[Mr. Pink]

So glad we didn't draft Patrick Peterson in 2011. So very very glad.

Dareus, if he doesn't win the starting job, likely won't be here passed his rookie contract.

Either way, a guy going into his third season as a former high first round pick should have his place on the team cemented by now.

Just another horrible Buddy Nix pick.

[k-oneputt]

Not giving up on the kid yet. Hope he reaches potential this year, I can't remember a draft pick I was more happy we got.
This kid isn't done. Last season he had the outside issues that messed with him. This is the 3rd year, the year that you usually can tell if a player is for real. {Moulds}. I remember alot of people wanting him out of here. I think he will have a big year.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

firstly, dareus does not suck, and is not bad. he is underperforming based on his talent level. so lets all calm down. secondly his ****ing brother died, so lets give him a little time. ill be concerned if hes having problems in tc

[BertSquirtgum]

Not giving up on the kid yet. Hope he reaches potential this year, I can't remember a draft pick I was more happy we got.

I was ecstatic when the Bills picked him and now when I watch him play it leaves me scratching my head.

[TacklingDummy]

OK, name them.

In no particular order.

1. Newton
2. Miller
3. AJ Green.
4. Patrick Peterson
5. Julio Jones
6. Aldon Smith
7. JJ Watt
8. Ryan Kerrigan
9. Mike Pouncey
10. Nate Solder
11. Corey Liuget
12. Robert Quinn
13. Muhammad Wilkerson
14. Adrian Clayborn
15. Cameron Jordan
16. Anthony Castonzo
17. Jon Baldwin
18. Jimmy Smith
19. James Carpenter
20. Phil Taylor
21. Prince Amukamara
22. Tyron Smith
23. Nick Fairly
24. Derek Sherrod
25. Gabe Carimi

Only ones I wouldn't want.

1. Marcell Dareus
2. Christan Ponder
3. Blaine Gabbert
4. Mark Ingram
5. Danny Watkins
6. Jake Locker
7. Cameron Heyward

[justasportsfan]

I can name about 20 other draft picks I'd rather have in the 1st round of the 2011 Draft.

I can also name a bunch of other draft picks I would have rather had in the last 20 years in hindsight.

[more cowbell]

Good. Competition makes EVERYONE better. It also means we have depth.

[better days]

In no particular order.

1. Newton
2. Miller
3. AJ Green.
4. Patrick Peterson
5. Julio Jones
6. Aldon Smith
7. JJ Watt
8. Ryan Kerrigan
9. Mike Pouncey
10. Nate Solder
11. Corey Liuget
12. Robert Quinn
13. Muhammad Wilkerson
14. Adrian Clayborn
15. Cameron Jordan
16. Anthony Castonzo
17. Jon Baldwin
18. Jimmy Smith
19. James Carpenter
20. Phil Taylor
21. Prince Amukamara
22. Tyron Smith
23. Nick Fairly
24. Derek Sherrod
25. Gabe Carimi

Only ones I wouldn't want.

1. Marcell Dareus
2. Christan Ponder
3. Blaine Gabbert
4. Mark Ingram
5. Danny Watkins
6. Jake Locker
7. Cameron Heyward

Seriously? JJ Watt is a no brainer other than him, nobody on your list excites me more than Dareus. He had a bad year playing in a bad system. I'm waiting to see how he plays in the Pettine/Ryan system before I write him off myself.

[k-oneputt]

There are some real reaches on that list.

[TacklingDummy]

I can also name a bunch of other draft picks I would have rather had in the last 20 years in hindsight.

You are talking 20 years, I am talking the same draft, the same round. Huge difference.
I guess it's ok that almost every player drafted after Dareus has produced more, after all Dareus is a Buffalo Bill so he gets some slack.

- - - Updated - - -


Seriously? JJ Watt is a no brainer other than him, nobody on your list excites me more than Dareus. He had a bad year playing in a bad system..
Lol, ok.

[TacklingDummy]

There are some real reaches on that list.
Nick Fairly would be the biggest reach. I put him on the list because he's no better or worse than Dareus. Plus he had a better 2nd year compared to Dareus. At least Fairly had a injury for an excuse.

[justasportsfan]

You are talking 20 years, I am talking the same draft, the same round. Huge difference.
I guess it's ok that almost every player drafted after Dareus has produced more, after all Dareus is a Buffalo Bill so he gets some slack.

.
regardless of year, it's easy to play GM in hindsight. I have yet to read anyone say he was a bad pick back then.

[TacklingDummy]

regardless of year, it's easy to play GM in hindsight. I have yet to read anyone say he was a bad pick back then.
I said it back then. I wanted Green or Peterson.

[justasportsfan]

I said it back then. I wanted Green or Peterson.

you wanted them, did you say Dareus was going to be a bust?

[TacklingDummy]

you wanted them, did you say Dareus was going to be a bust?

You know me, probably.
I think I've said for the last 10 years that either the Bills first pick was going to be a bust or just a bad pick.

Write it down, EJ Manuel = Bust.

[Mr. Pink]

I said it back then. I wanted Green or Peterson.

I was right there with you, but I just wanted Peterson.

People seem to forget that most of us aren't playing captain hindsight gm'ing...we're saying this stuff as it happens.

I get why EJ Manuel was selected this year, think it's a huge reach and likely won't pan out, but I understand the pick.

Unfortunately, Buddy decided we needed a QB too late and decided to use one of the weakest QB classes in recent memory to finally roll the dice on one.

[better days]

I was right there with you, but I just wanted Peterson.

People seem to forget that most of us aren't playing captain hindsight gm'ing...we're saying this stuff as it happens.

I get why EJ Manuel was selected this year, think it's a huge reach and likely won't pan out, but I understand the pick.

Unfortunately, Buddy decided we needed a QB too late and decided to use one of the weakest QB classes in recent memory to finally roll the dice on one.

You may be right about this QB class & Manuel may be a reach.

I still like the pick. I said after the Senior Bowl that Manuel was the best QB in the game BY FAR for either team.

I was told by people on this board all the real scouting is done during the week at practice which is probably true, but I could see in that game EJ could fling the ball a mile downfield & complete the pass.

I think he has all the intangibles as well with the only question in my mind being how long it takes him to learn to read NFL defenses.

It will not surprise me to see him have a GOOD career as a Bills QB.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Seriously? JJ Watt is a no brainer other than him, nobody on your list excites me more than Dareus. He had a bad year playing in a bad system. I'm waiting to see how he plays in the Pettine/Ryan system before I write him off myself. Even in hindsight you'd still take Dareus over Miller, Smith, Green, and Jones?

[EDS]

Seriously? JJ Watt is a no brainer other than him, nobody on your list excites me more than Dareus. He had a bad year playing in a bad system. I'm waiting to see how he plays in the Pettine/Ryan system before I write him off myself.

Von Miller does not excite you? Aldon Smith? A.J. Green? Patrick Peterson? Cam Newton?

Are you mad?

[TacklingDummy]

Von Miller does not excite you? Aldon Smith? A.J. Green? Patrick Peterson? Cam Newton?

Are you mad?

He fell asleep watching Dareus.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

I remember Elway saying that dareus was a great player, but that the outside pass rush has more of an impact on the game. I still wanted dareus, but I was under the impression his inside pass rush was " special"... so I guess we will see

[jills]

He's a bust, period.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

He's a bust, period.

hes not a bust. hes a quality starter with few flashes of dominance... mike Williams, or Charles rogers is a bust

[Mace]

Seriously? JJ Watt is a no brainer other than him, nobody on your list excites me more than Dareus. He had a bad year playing in a bad system. I'm waiting to see how he plays in the Pettine/Ryan system before I write him off myself.

He wasn't even really bad. Average year, bad system, another personal life blow. Wannstedt was a terrible terrible terrible DC with a side of woeful and a cup of clueless on the side. I'd let this year be the measure of Dareus, and I hardly think he's fighting for his job, Pettine is on the record all over the place saying he likes people in and out and everywhere, this is the time of year when people are even more in and out and everywhere all over the place.

[jills]

hes not a bust. hes a quality starter with few flashes of dominance... mike Williams, or Charles rogers is a bust

A 3rd overall pick is not supposed to show "flashes", it's supposed to be dominant.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

A 3rd overall pick is not supposed to show "flashes", it's supposed to be dominant.

I totally agree, but it doesn't mean hes a bust...

[TacklingDummy]

He's a bust, period.

Right now Dareus is along the lines of being bust like JP.
This year will decide if he's going to improve on that or turn into a Mike Williams type bust.
Dareus can't be a Arron Maybin type bust because most people thought Maybin was going to suck and was a terrible pick.

The reason I hated the pick of Dareus was because there was so many other players with more potential than him and bigger areas of need at that time. Examples WR/CB. At #3 we should have been drafting someone with superstar potential and Dareus was not it.

[JoeMama]

Right now Dareus is along the lines of being bust like JP.
This year will decide if he's going to improve on that or turn into a Mike Williams type bust.
Dareus can't be a Arron Maybin type bust because most people thought Maybin was going to suck and was a terrible pick.

The reason I hated the pick of Dareus was because there was so many other players with more potential than him and bigger areas of need at that time. Examples WR/CB. At #3 we should have been drafting someone with superstar potential and Dareus was not it.

We had the 32nd ranked run defense entering the 2011 Draft, so I understood the rationale for drafting a defensive tackle at the time. Especially when you consider the extent of how bad our 32nd ranking really was. We allowed a mind-blowing 2,714 rushing yards. That's a crazy, almost unheard of number.

Marcell Dareus wasn't my first or second choice but he did seem like a "safe" option at the time. Funny how quickly that characterization can dissolve.

To his credit, he was a bit more active down the stretch in 2012. He seemed to be in on more tackles and got a few sacks. But obviously that's setting the bar pretty low for a 3rd overall pick.

[OpIv37]

Right now Dareus is along the lines of being bust like JP.
This year will decide if he's going to improve on that or turn into a Mike Williams type bust.
Dareus can't be a Arron Maybin type bust because most people thought Maybin was going to suck and was a terrible pick.

The reason I hated the pick of Dareus was because there was so many other players with more potential than him and bigger areas of need at that time. Examples WR/CB. At #3 we should have been drafting someone with superstar potential and Dareus was not it.

Dareus can't be an Aaron Maybin type bust because, even if he never plays another down as a Bill. he already gave us one decent season and one mediocre season. Maybin couldn't even manage that bit of mediocrity.

Hopefully Dareus recovers this year, but even if he does, I'm still a little concerned. I mean, everyone is going to need some time to recover when they have a stressful event in their personal life, but he can't flake out for an entire year every time he has some personal stress.

[mayotm]

Dareus can't be an Aaron Maybin type bust because, even if he never plays another down as a Bill. he already gave us one decent season and one mediocre season. Maybin couldn't even manage that bit of mediocrity.

Hopefully Dareus recovers this year, but even if he does, I'm still a little concerned. I mean, everyone is going to need some time to recover when they have a stressful event in their personal life, but he can't flake out for an entire year every time he has some personal stress.I think losing a sibling to murder is a little more severe than "some personal stress". Especially in Dareus' case when he's been taking care of all his siblings.

[OpIv37]

I think losing a sibling to murder is a little more severe than "some personal stress". Especially in Dareus' case when he's been taking care of all his siblings.

There are plenty of examples of players in similar circumstances coming back and playing the same week or even the same night, the most recent being Torrey Smith:


On September 23, 2012, Smith lost his 19-year old brother due to a motorcycle accident. Tevin Chris Jones was riding on Route 672 in Westmoreland County in Northeast Virginia when he ran off the right side of the roadway and struck a utility pole, according to Virginia State Police. Jones was pronounced dead at the scene. He was wearing a helmet, and alcohol was not a factor. The accident is under investigation.

Smith left the Ravens' hotel on Sunday at 2 a.m. ET, accompanied by a member of the Ravens' security staff, to be with his family. Smith told Ravens coach John Harbaugh that he wanted to play in that night's game against the New England Patriots. Harbaugh told him that it was Smith's call to make.[73] Smith chose to play, and finished the game with 6 receptions for 127 yards and two touchdowns in a 31-30 win over the New England Patriots.

Now, everyone deals with death differently and I certainly don't expect Dareus or anyone else to be able to perform like Smith did so soon after a personal tragedy. But at the same time, it's not a blank check to flake for an entire season.

[mayotm]

There are plenty of examples of players in similar circumstances coming back and playing the same week or even the same night, the most recent being Torrey Smith:



Now, everyone deals with death differently and I certainly don't expect Dareus or anyone else to be able to perform like Smith did so soon after a personal tragedy. But at the same time, it's not a blank check to flake for an entire season.I don't think anybody is giving him a pass. He didn't have a good season. As several people pointed out, he played better the second half of the year. All of that stated, I don't think anybody should be saying how the death of his brother impacted his play because we don't know.

[justasportsfan]

You know me, probably.
I think I've said for the last 10 years that either the Bills first pick was going to be a bust or just a bad pick.

Write it down, EJ Manuel = Bust.

I also wanted Big Ben and I knew Maybin would be a bust .I can play that too.

[Bert102176]

Last year he played pathetically, yes unfortunitly his brother died and that was the only good game he had last year.

[BertSquirtgum]

Seriously? JJ Watt is a no brainer other than him, nobody on your list excites me more than Dareus. He had a bad year playing in a bad system. I'm waiting to see how he plays in the Pettine/Ryan system before I write him off myself.

If Dareus excites you at all with his play then you have issues.

[BertSquirtgum]

I said it back then. I wanted Green or Peterson.

I wanted Green so badly. Imagine Steve and AJ lined up together. Daaaamn.

[Mr. Pink]

The sad part is Dareus could be cut tomorrow at 9am and this team defensively would be no worse.

When you're the 3rd overall pick that should NOT be said of you...ever.

[better days]

If Dareus excites you at all with his play then you have issues.

Well, he did not excite me last year playing in Wannys system & with his brother being MURDERED just before the season started, but I am EXCITED to see him play in Pettines system.

[better days]

There are plenty of examples of players in similar circumstances coming back and playing the same week or even the same night, the most recent being Torrey Smith:



Now, everyone deals with death differently and I certainly don't expect Dareus or anyone else to be able to perform like Smith did so soon after a personal tragedy. But at the same time, it's not a blank check to flake for an entire season.

As mayotem said Dareus is the defacto parent to his siblings & his brother was MURDERED, he did not die in an accident.

The circumstances are NOT similar at all.

[Thief]

Dudes, any one of you that didn't have Dareus as a top 3 pic in that draft are seriously full of ****, or full of ****.

[HAMMER]

Dudes, any one of you that didn't have Dareus as a top 3 pic in that draft are seriously full of ****, or full of ****.

Yup, I don't recall there ever being a greater consensus on this board then there was about taking Dareus. In fact most people were fretting that he wouldn't be there when we picked. Now all of the sudden it's, "I told you so". Hang tight, I think he will be a good one, Pat Williams took a while to develop, that turned out pretty well.

[EDS]

Yup, I don't recall there ever being a greater consensus on this board then there was about taking Dareus. In fact most people were fretting that he wouldn't be there when we picked. Now all of the sudden it's, "I told you so". Hang tight, I think he will be a good one, Pat Williams took a while to develop, that turned out pretty well.

I for one wanted Dareus. That said, I am in no way a professional evaluator of football talent. Nor does not change the fact that he has been a disappointment to date, particularly in light of the fact that so many other players drafted early in that first round have already emerged as true game changers.

[better days]

I for one wanted Dareus. That said, I am in no way a professional evaluator of football talent. Nor does not change the fact that he has been a disappointment to date, particularly in light of the fact that so many other players drafted early in that first round have already emerged as true game changers.

He had a good rookie season. A bad season last year. this is ONLY year 3 coming up. Like I said, I am EXCITED to see him play in the system Pettine installs this year.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

He had a good rookie season.
A bad season last year. this is ONLY year 3 coming up. Like I said, I am EXCITED to see him play in the system Pettine installs this year.

no

[better days]

no

NOBODY is asking you to be excited. Don't watch the games at all for all I care.

[EDS]

He had a good rookie season. A bad season last year. this is ONLY year 3 coming up. Like I said, I am EXCITED to see him play in the system Pettine installs this year.

He did have a soldi rookie year, but Miller, Green, Smith, Jones, etc. had great rookie years and improved in year two.

Hopefully Dareus responds to the new regime and system, but if he is struggling to beat out Carrington or Branch to start then that will not be a good sign.

[better days]

He did have a soldi rookie year, but Miller, Green, Smith, Jones, etc. had great rookie years and improved in year two.

Hopefully Dareus responds to the new regime and system, but if he is struggling to beat out Carrington or Branch to start then that will not be a good sign.

It is not even preseason yet. I have heard NOTHING from the Coaches that said he was struggling to beat out ANYBODY.

I expect both Carrington & Branch to see playing time this year. Players will be moved around all over the place in this defense.

[jills]

Dudes, any one of you that didn't have Dareus as a top 3 pic in that draft are seriously full of ****, or full of ****.

This is what pisses me off

#1 Cam Newton -> Pro Bowler
#2 Von Miller -> Pro Bowler
#3 Marcell Dareus -> crap
#4 A.J. Green - Pro Bowler
#5 Patrick Peterson -> Pro Bowler
#6 Julio Jones -> Pro Bowler
#7 Aldon Smith -> Pro Bowler

We somehow managed to blow the pick, no wonder why we have sucked for 10+ years and counting.

[Thunderkyss]

I don't know what to say about Dareus, but I'm very interested to see how Pettine does now that he's cleared Rex's shadow. When they were talented (2009, 2010) that defense was good enough to put Marc Sanchez in the AFC Championship game in back to back years.

I'm not saying your Bills are as talented as those Jets, they're not. But they are a lot more talented than the 2012 Jets (defensively). I think it's going to be interesting & that front 7 is going to be the key.

[OpIv37]

Dudes, any one of you that didn't have Dareus as a top 3 pic in that draft are seriously full of ****, or full of ****.

Don't get me wrong. I'm hard on Dareus now because no team can win without production out of a top 3 pick. But I'm not denying that I liked the pick at the time. There is no Aaron Maybin "I told you so" moment for me here.

[better days]

This is what pisses me off

#1 Cam Newton -> Pro Bowler
#2 Von Miller -> Pro Bowler
#3 Marcell Dareus -> crap
#4 A.J. Green - Pro Bowler
#5 Patrick Peterson -> Pro Bowler
#6 Julio Jones -> Pro Bowler
#7 Aldon Smith -> Pro Bowler

We somehow managed to blow the pick, no wonder why we have sucked for 10+ years and counting.

Have you watched Newton after his Rookie year? NOT A PRO BOWLER!

I will not be surprised at all if Manuel has a better career than Cam Newton.

[Mace]

Realistically, over Dareus' career we've seen Kelsay used as an OLB running madly and comically after people and the Bills playing one older lb (Barnett) 92% of the snaps as the only real lb on the field anyway, so I'm not real sure why Dareus is supposed to be superman. Sadly it also makes me shoot down my own arguments about why Byrd isn't that good and Kyle Williams is overrated so never mind.

[jills]

Have you watched Newton after his Rookie year? NOT A PRO BOWLER!

I will not be surprised at all if Manuel has a better career than Cam Newton.

Let me know when Manuel is named Offensive Rookie of the Year, breaks the single-season record for most rushing TD's by a QB and goes to a Pro Bowl.


In order to accomplish that, he needs to beat Kolb for the starting job first lol.


Anyways, we didn't have a chance to draft Newton, but we passed on Green, Peterson, Jones, Smith, Watt, for the almighty Dareus. Same ol' Bills.

[ublinkwescore]

You are talking 20 years, I am talking the same draft, the same round. Huge difference.
I guess it's ok that almost every player drafted after Dareus has produced more, after all Dareus is a Buffalo Bill so he gets some slack.

- - - Updated - - -


Lol, ok.

Miller and newton were both gone before we picked remember?

[sudzy]

Dudes, any one of you that didn't have Dareus as a top 3 pic in that draft are seriously full of ****, or full of ****.

I did, I had him as the top guy. But, I don't have a job as an NFL scout, do I?

[better days]

Let me know when Manuel is named Offensive Rookie of the Year, breaks the single-season record for most rushing TD's by a QB and goes to a Pro Bowl.


In order to accomplish that, he needs to beat Kolb for the starting job first lol.


Anyways, we didn't have a chance to draft Newton, but we passed on Green, Peterson, Jones, Smith, Watt, for the almighty Dareus. Same ol' Bills.

Did Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady win Rookie of the year?

Nice award, but meaningless.

[Mike]

How could they have missed so badly in that draft is beyond me. If I told you that nearly every player in the top 10 of that draft would become a PB, what were the odds the Bills would pick the worst one?

They are just amazingly great at being mediocre. They had like a 90% chance of success and found a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[BillsFever21]

How can anybody sit there with a straight face and say that Dareus has excited them more then Green, Peterson, Watt, Smith and Jones. All of them guys were taken just after Dareus and they have become forces in the league already. The production we have received out of Dareus so far you would expect from maybe a 2nd round pick. better days is showing to be a complete homer by even saying that. You're talking two Top 5 WR's in the game today along with pass rushers who are some of the best in the league. We have an average DT so far. At least be somewhat objective.

I wanted Miller or Green. When Green was still there I was disgusted they didn't take him but didn't completely hate the Dareus pick. I just didn't see the dominance in him like you would have had with Green and some other guys. I'm not giving up on him yet but he needs to prove something now.

Nix messed up the past few years of the drafts so bad it would've totally changed the landscape of the draft this year. He should've already had a QB of the future long before now when they were in abundance. Had he taken Green when we needed a dominant WR we wouldn't have needed to take two of them this year.

Just by only naming them two mistakes(among many more) we could've used our first round pick and one of our second round picks on other positions and good players that could've helped the team. Along with having Green and a long-term QB in place and the addition of other upgrades we would be well on our way towards rebuilding and competing by next year. We could've even still took Robert Woods and had a trio of WR's for weapons. There were also many good lineman in the draft this year.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but many of them were easy picks to make. Especially knowing you needed a QB of the future before this year. I like Manuel even though we reached on him but if he fails that will set us back another 3-5 years when we could've easily already had a young good QB in place to build the team around. This front office has been a total joke and hopefully Whaley does a better job then Nix. The elephant in the room in Russ Brandon is still around though.

[jills]

Did Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady win Rookie of the year?

Nice award, but meaningless.

No because they didn't start as rookies, good try though.

[better days]

No because they didn't start as rookies, good try though.

That is my POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If EJ does not start his Rookie year from day one, how can ANYONE expect him to win Rookie of the year?

That does NOT mean he won't have a better career than Cam Newton.

And even if EJ does start his Rookie year on day one & does not win Rookie of the year, that still does not mean he won't have a better CAREER than Cam Newton.

[jills]

That is my POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If EJ does not start his Rookie year from day one, how can ANYONE expect him to win Rookie of the year?

That does NOT mean he won't have a better career than Cam Newton.

And even if EJ does start his Rookie year on day one & does not win Rookie of the year, that still does not mean he won't have a better CAREER than Cam Newton.

LOL

So why are you discussing this in the first place?

You should wait like 10 years or so to prove your claim.

[better days]

LOL

So why are you discussing this in the first place?

You should wait like 10 years or so to prove your claim.

WHY are YOU discussing this in the first place?

I made a statement that Manuel may have a better CAREER than Cam Newton.

You responded with the STUPID post about Cam winning rookie of the year.
I just responded to your stupid post. As if the Rookie year defines a career.

[jills]

WHY are YOU discussing this in the first place?

I made a statement that Manuel may have a better CAREER than Cam Newton.

You responded with the STUPID post about Cam winning rookie of the year.
I just responded to your stupid post. As if the Rookie year defines a career.

Because somebody responded to my post with this stupid ****?

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/5194/fpjn.jpg


When did I mention winning Offensive Rookie of the Year defines a career? Stop making **** up!

Getting that award is a damn good way to start it.


And again, let me know when your boy:


1) Beats Kolb for the starting job


2) Breaks a record in the NFL (in good way i.e. not throwing for most INT's in a single season)


3) Goes to a Pro Bowl

[BillsFever21]

If Manuel gets the right coaching early in his career I think he can be a good starting QB. He isn't a Peyton Manning type that was already NFL ready that was going to be good no matter who his coach was. Even Manning struggled early on.

If Manuel is developed correctly and in a system that fits him then he should play some decent football for us. If Marrone and the coaching ends up being a bust I'm not sold that he will be good despite his coaching.

Many of the good QB's in the league are good because they had the skills and good coaching to develop them. Some are decent because they are in a system that fits them and the coaches are doing a good job working them within the system. If Manuel receives poor coaching he probably won't be any good. I don't see him as that sure thing that can play with any coach and within any system. Lets just hope Marrone is the real deal.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the team is so bad that it's dragging even top talent like Dareus down with it?

I mean, seriously. Of all the names being bandied about as alternatives, not one was in the defensive tackle position that this team sorely needed. Those were Nick Fairley and DaQuan Bowers. Bowers ended up being a dud, and the scouts knew it, hence why he ended up down in the third round instead of the third pick. Fairley, like Dareus, is still up in the air. Of the prospects in that draft, at that position, Dareus could very well still be the best.

Peterson? Green? Yeah, they would be great for the run defense, and besides, how is a WR supposed to catch passes when Fitztragic is the one throwing to him-- or should I say, sort of in his general vicinity?

About the only idea that MIGHT have made some sense over Dareus was JJ Watt.

I love how this board always likes to bandy about the names of flashy skill position players that did not fit the needs of the team, as if they wouldn't have been just as big of a bust as the ones they actually did draft. News flash, folks... you can't replace all 53 players of crap in enough time to build a quality team before they age out. It will take luck beyond any amount of general manager's skill to break the never-ending playoff drought, and Ralph Wilson has to stop and think-- if he even still can think-- if it is even worth the constant losing that is inevitable until Tom Brady retires.

[BillsFever21]

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the team is so bad that it's dragging even top talent like Dareus down with it?

I mean, seriously. Of all the names being bandied about as alternatives, not one was in the defensive tackle position that this team sorely needed. Those were Nick Fairley and DaQuan Bowers. Bowers ended up being a dud, and the scouts knew it, hence why he ended up down in the third round instead of the third pick. Fairley, like Dareus, is still up in the air. Of the prospects in that draft, at that position, Dareus could very well still be the best.

Peterson? Green? Yeah, they would be great for the run defense, and besides, how is a WR supposed to catch passes when Fitztragic is the one throwing to him-- or should I say, sort of in his general vicinity?

About the only idea that MIGHT have made some sense over Dareus was JJ Watt.

I love how this board always likes to bandy about the names of flashy skill position players that did not fit the needs of the team, as if they wouldn't have been just as big of a bust as the ones they actually did draft. News flash, folks... you can't replace all 53 players of crap in enough time to build a quality team before they age out. It will take luck beyond any amount of general manager's skill to break the never-ending playoff drought, and Ralph Wilson has to stop and think-- if he even still can think-- if it is even worth the constant losing that is inevitable until Tom Brady retires.

If teams do a good job with drafting,free agency and coaching they can at least make a playoff appearance or turn their team around for the long haul. The Dolphins went from 1-15 to winning the division with 11 wins the following season. The Lions went from a 0 and 2 win team into a playoff spot several years later.

If that was the case then no teams would ever get better and would stay in the dumps. Every season there is a team that goes from worst to first. The Bills stay the same with anywhere from 4-6 wins(give or take a game) every season.

There's a reason why the Bills have the longest playoff drought beat by a long shot from the next team and the rest in the Top 5 of losers. A few good drafts, smart moves in free agency, coaching and retaining your best key players instead of your average ones can turn your team around fairly quickly.

It all starts up top and our front office along with ownership has been terrible. Without a good front office you are most likely going to hire lousy coaches unless you get lucky. Even if you get lucky with the coach if you have a crappy front office you won't be able to have successful drafts on a consistent basis either.

Plus we also had a need for a WR in that draft. We didn't have anyone besides Stevie and he had just had his first good season in his career. Either way we still needed another WR or a dominant WR like Green. Johnson is good but he isn't dominant. Even Stevie Johnson has been able to get 1,000 yards a season with Fitzpatrick throwing to him. We also had a big need for a CB which the evidence proves that or they wouldn't have blown their second round pick when they took Aaron Freaking Williams over guys like Kapernick or Dalton. Another pathetic mistake there. And this was even before they thought Fitzpatrick was a long-term answer so in theory we also had a need for a long-term QB.

Also if the front office was any good we would've already had a QB in place like stated above where we wouldn't have even needed to worry about Fitzpatrick. Instead they blew their load over his good month of football and gave him 20 million in guaranteed money only to make it one more season as the starter. Same thing they did with Dick Jauron when he started 4-0 only to crumble afterwards and get fired halfway through the following season. He basically made about 15 million dollars to coach another half of season for us. The history of incompetence with the management of this team goes back for years.

[better days]

Because somebody responded to my post with this stupid ****?

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/5194/fpjn.jpg


When did I mention winning Offensive Rookie of the Year defines a career? Stop making **** up!

Getting that award is a damn good way to start it.


And again, let me know when your boy:


1) Beats Kolb for the starting job


2) Breaks a record in the NFL (in good way i.e. not throwing for most INT's in a single season)


3) Goes to a Pro Bowl

My post was not stupid. People are ragging on Dareus & Cam Newton had just as bad a sophmore year as Dareus did. FACT.

When EJ does accomplish anything, you will know about it, I won't have to let you know.

But just as people are questioning Dareus, people are now questioning Cam Newton in spite of his great Rookie year.

[SpikedLemonade]

My post was not stupid. People are ragging on Dareus & Cam Newton had just as bad a sophmore year as Dareus did. FACT.

This post is stupid.

[better days]

This post is stupid.

This post is STUPID.

[EDS]

My post was not stupid. People are ragging on Dareus & Cam Newton had just as bad a sophmore year as Dareus did. FACT.

When EJ does accomplish anything, you will know about it, I won't have to let you know.

But just as people are questioning Dareus, people are now questioning Cam Newton in spite of his great Rookie year.

Did Cam Newton have a bad sophomore season? He definitely had a bad first half, but by the end of the season, due to a good second half, he ended up with a better QB rating then the prior season.

I guarantee that if Manuel gives the Bills 75% of what Cam Newton has done in his first two years the Bills organization will be overjoyed.

I will also point out that Newton has dominated at the college level and was the dominate rookie in the NFL. Manuel never dominated in college and may not even start as a rookie.

[better days]

Did Cam Newton have a bad sophomore season? He definitely had a bad first half, but by the end of the season, due to a good second half, he ended up with a better QB rating then the prior season.

I guarantee that if Manuel gives the Bills 75% of what Cam Newton has done in his first two years the Bills organization will be overjoyed.

I will also point out that Newton has dominated at the college level and was the dominate rookie in the NFL. Manuel never dominated in college and may not even start as a rookie.

Newton dominated in College? He only played ONE year of D1 College Football.

I agree Manuel may not start as a Rookie, but he NEVER lost a bowl game in College & DOMINATED at the Senior Bowl.

I also agree the Bills would be happy if Manuel plays as well as Newton has, but my point about Newton & Dareus is they are still EARLY in their careers. Either or both may turn out to be Pro Bowl Studs or DUDS. It is too soon to say.

[EDS]

Newton dominated in College? He only played ONE year of D1 College Football.

I agree Manuel may not start as a Rookie, but he NEVER lost a bowl game in College & DOMINATED at the Senior Bowl.

I also agree the Bills would be happy if Manuel plays as well as Newton has, but my point about Newton & Dareus is they are still EARLY in their careers. Either or both may turn out to be Pro Bowl Studs or DUDS. It is too soon to say.

Do you not agree that Newton dominated during his year at Auburn? 50+ touchdowns, national championship and a heisman don't impress you? But beating Northern Illinois in a bowl game does impress you?

Also, Cam Newton is one of only two QBs to throw for over 7,500 yards and 40 touchdowns in their first two seasons? Note that does not include the over 20 rushing TDs Newton has. Oh, that other QB: Payton Manning.

[better days]

Do you not agree that Newton dominated during his year at Auburn? 50+ touchdowns, national championship and a heisman don't impress you? But beating Northern Illinois in a bowl game does impress you?

Also, Cam Newton is one of only two QBs to throw for over 7,500 yards and 40 touchdowns in their first two seasons? Note that does not include the over 20 rushing TDs Newton has. Oh, that other QB: Payton Manning.

Yes Newton had ONE GREAT year in College & a GREAT Rookie year. I agree. But to talk of dominating in College.........................Tim Tebow DOMINATED........................for his ENTIRE College Career.

[jills]

My post was not stupid. People are ragging on Dareus & Cam Newton had just as bad a sophmore year as Dareus did. FACT.

When EJ does accomplish anything, you will know about it, I won't have to let you know.

But just as people are questioning Dareus, people are now questioning Cam Newton in spite of his great Rookie year.

It was stupid considering Newton stats:

Passing

-----TD--INT--Rating

2011:21--17---84.5

2012:19--12---86.2

Rushing

------TD

2011: 14

2012: 8

He had a sophomore year just as bad as Dareus? LMAO! We can only wish we get this kind of production from our QB.

[better days]

It was stupid considering Newton stats:

Passing

-----TD--INT--Rating

2011:21--17---84.5

2012:19--12---86.2

Rushing

------TD

2011: 14

2012: 8

He had a sophomore year just as bad as Dareus? LMAO! We can only wish we get this kind of production from our QB.

YES he had a sophomore year as bad as Dareus. BOTH played poorly the first half of the season & played better in the 2nd half.

Cam DID NOT make the Pro Bowl any more than Dareus did.

[jills]

YES he had a sophomore year as bad as Dareus. BOTH played poorly the first half of the season & played better in the 2nd half.

Cam DID NOT make the Pro Bowl any more than Dareus did.

And yet he made it his ROOKIE SEASON, where he DOMINATED, something the 3rd overall pick has yet to do.

Newton's sophomore season had a better QB raiting, more 40+ yards plays, more rushing yards and more 20+ and 40+ yards plays while rushing, and he had a season just as bad as Dareus? LMFAO!

[NOT THE DUDE...]

so suh is a bust after his average 2nd year?

[better days]

so suh is a bust after his average 2nd year?

I don't think anybody is a bust after ONLY two years.

[jills]

so suh is a bust after his average 2nd year?

Suh was Defensive Rookie of the Year, 1st team All Pro and a Pro Bowler his rookie season, not bad for a 2nd overall pick.

On the other hand Dareus the 3rd overall pick... hmmmmm...

[Mr. Pink]

I don't think anybody is a bust after ONLY two years.

Oh really? You didn't think Maybin was a bust? JP? McCargo? etc etc etc were busts after two years?

[better days]

Oh really? You didn't think Maybin was a bust? JP? McCargo? etc etc etc were busts after two years?

Yes, they proved to be busts. I just don't think you can say that after only two years.............well except about Maybin. The exception to the rule.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

Suh was Defensive Rookie of the Year, 1st team All Pro and a Pro Bowler his rookie season, not bad for a 2nd overall pick.

On the other hand Dareus the 3rd overall pick... hmmmmm...

Didn't dareus have a really good rookie year? and slightly above average 2nd year? I have no idea how he is a bust. even if he just stayed the same. its more so disappointing at this time, but still a very very good player

- - - Updated - - -

like I said, marcell will decide how great he will be

[Mike]

No one should be handed a starting position with a new coach. Shut up and prove yourself.

Lol... What about a Dan Marino, Payton Manning, Barry Sanders, etc...

Should Spiller and Mario Williams warn their job too?

When the Broncos signed Payton Manning and gave him something like $20M did he have to earn his job? If he has to earn it, if there was a question about his ability, why pay him big $$$?