Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

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  • OpIv37
    Acid Douching Asswipe
    • Sep 2002
    • 101230

    Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

    Some of this has been said by me and others in other threads, but it's all related so I'm putting it all here.

    First, there is plenty of blame to go around in this situation. From the team's perspective, there were articles on here that their original offer was $7 million. They lowballed him. Insulting a guy is not the best way to start off negotiations. Thayt being said, Byrd is a great safety and he deserves to get paid, but he's not the best S in the league and he doesn't deserve to be paid like that. His agent is a douche for putting that in his head and he may cost himself money by believing it. Initially, it looked like the Bills were just being cheap, but it's now clear that Byrd and Parker have blood on their hands too.

    Second, we need to find a way to keep Byrd. There are a lot of reasons why this team has struggled, but IMO the biggest one is piss-poor drafting. Byrd and Levitre were two of our better draft picks despite the overall horrid drafting. Well, Levitre is gone and Byrd has one foot out the door. The team will NEVER win if we keep being the minor league team to develop players for the rest of the league.

    Third, someone started a thread about why people think we don't have money to sign Byrd. I think the answer is simple: the team isn't ACTING like they have money. Yeah, Levitre got a lot of money- arguably too much. But the Bills haven't locked up Byrd and our free agency haul consists of:

    Lawson- improvement but won't fix our LB problems on his own
    Branch- decent player but not at a position of need
    Kolb- stopgap and IMO not very good

    This is a team with tons of holes not retaining talent and not adding FA's. It's fine ot say Levitre got too much money, but this isn't your money or my money- it's Ralph's and he's got more of it than any of us will ever have by a long shot. Saving money in and of itself isn't a good thing. The money saved has to somehow be reinvested into the team, and that isn't happening. Last I saw, the team has over $18 million in cap space, and that includes over $6 million for Byrd's tender. If he doesn't sign, the team has almost $25 million in cap space. With so many holes not addressed in FA and the inability to keep Levitre or lock up Byrd with that much cap space, there is simply no way to say this team is doing everything possible to win.

    Finally, and I will admit this is speculation on my part, I have to wonder if the Byrd thing is all about saving money. Think about this: the team isn't going to compete for 2-3 years with or without Byrd. So, if we're not going to win anyway, why would management give Byrd the extra $2 million a year he wants? It's all going for naught. I think they may be trying to get out of paying him, even if it means signing a FA safety or giving a big contract to one of the guys we drafted this year, should they develop. It saves them 2-3 years of paying a top flight safety. I really hope this isn't their thought process, but it's a distinct possibility.
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  • jimmifli
    Registered User
    • Nov 2006
    • 7827

    #2
    Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

    Originally posted by OpIv37 View Post
    but he's not the best S in the league and he doesn't deserve to be paid like that.
    That's naive, reactionary and demonstrates a failure to understand how markets actually work.

    Top paid position players are about performance, but the are also very much about risk. Byrd has another 4 seasons before his 30th birthday. Any team that wants to lock up his prime, pays a premium, because those years are much lower risk. And Byrd has been remarkably durable, indicating even lower risk. He's a safe a bet as you get. A top safety, that is as close to guaranteed to maintain or improve his play over the life of his contract as you can get in the NFL.

    When people say he isn't the best safety, fine that's arguable, but he's the best bet at safety. He's the lowest risk highest return safety in the NFL.
    Last edited by jimmifli; 07-16-2013, 12:09 PM.

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    • justasportsfan
      Registered User
      • Jul 2002
      • 71579

      #3
      Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

      Originally posted by jimmifli View Post
      That's naive, reactionary and demonstrates a failure to understand how markets actually work.

      Top paid position players are about performance, but the are also very much about risk. Byrd has another 4 seasons before his 30th birthday. Any team that wants to lock up his prime, pays a premium, because those years are much lower risk. And Byrd has been remarkably durable, indicating even lower risk. He's a safe a bet as you get. A top safety, that is as close to guaranteed to maintain or improve his play over the life of his contract as you can get in the NFL.

      When people say he isn't the best safety, fine that's arguable, but he's the best bet at safety. He's the lowest risk highest return safety in the NFL.
      SF disagrees . Ask them how they feel about Clements.
      sacrifice1
      https://theinterviewwithgod.com/video/

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      • better days
        Registered User
        • Jan 2010
        • 22028

        #4
        Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

        Originally posted by jimmifli View Post
        That's naive, reactionary and demonstrates a failure to understand how markets actually work.

        Top paid position players are about performance, but the are also very much about risk. Byrd has another 4 seasons before his 30th birthday. Any team that wants to lock up his prime, pays a premium, because those years are much lower risk. And Byrd has been remarkably durable, indicating even lower risk. He's a safe a bet as you get. A top safety, that is as close to guaranteed to maintain or improve his play over the life of his contract as you can get in the NFL.

        When people say he isn't the best safety, fine that's arguable, but he's the best bet at safety. He's the lowest risk highest return safety in the NFL.
        Well, the Bills can lock him up for 2 years with the tag. On the CHEAP. Then he will be 29 years old & only one year away from 30. As Op said, it could be about saving money over the next 2 years. Instead of paying a guy almost 30 as the #1 Safety in the NFL when he is clearly not that. He should have accepted the Bills FAIR offer, but he didn't & I doubt he ever sees the money Parker told him he would. I will tell you a team that would NEVER pay Byrd if he was on that team & that team is the Pats*.

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        • jdaltroy5
          Registered User
          • Aug 2012
          • 3227

          #5
          Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

          Originally posted by justasportsfan View Post
          SF disagrees . Ask them how they feel about Clements.
          No they don't.

          How do we feel about Clements?

          Reactionary idiots think that we made the right move, but did we?

          After we lost him, we realized that we needed another CB, so what did we do? We used a first rounder on McKelvin.

          Well that didn't work out, so we decided to sign Florence to a 5 mil a year contract.

          That didn't work out, so we used a high second on Williams.

          That didn't work out so we used another first on Gilmore.

          It took us 5 years and 3 high draft picks to find an adequate replacement.

          Did San Fran get their money's worth with Clements? Probably not.

          But you know what it allowed them to do? It allowed them to take players like Patrick Willis, Michael Crabtree, and Mike Iupati because they didn't NEED to take a CB. Once they felt like they didn't need him anymore, they just cut him and saved the rest of the money.

          If we end up losing Byrd, you can bet your ass we'll be taking a FS in the first 2 rounds next year.

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          • Mike
            Registered User
            • Jan 2009
            • 3805

            #6
            Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

            Originally posted by jdaltroy5 View Post
            No they don't.

            How do we feel about Clements?

            Reactionary idiots think that we made the right move, but did we?

            After we lost him, we realized that we needed another CB, so what did we do? We used a first rounder on McKelvin.

            Well that didn't work out, so we decided to sign Florence to a 5 mil a year contract.

            That didn't work out, so we used a high second on Williams.

            That didn't work out so we used another first on Gilmore.

            It took us 5 years and 3 high draft picks to find an adequate replacement.

            Did San Fran get their money's worth with Clements? Probably not.

            But you know what it allowed them to do? It allowed them to take players like Patrick Willis, Michael Crabtree, and Mike Iupati because they didn't NEED to take a CB. Once they felt like they didn't need him anymore, they just cut him and saved the rest of the money.

            If we end up losing Byrd, you can bet your ass we'll be taking a FS in the first 2 rounds next year.
            It's amazing to me how illogical many fans are. When Whitner was at best average many Posters excused his lack of production and blamed it on the lack if surrounding talent. And, they wanted to pay him. Now that we truly have a top FS they downplay his value, contributions, and worth and don't want to pay him. Lol

            Elite players don't grow on trees. You won't replace him for another 10years and even if you do, what the point? Will he too walk after his rookie deal expires?
            Please Make Sense

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            • Mr. Pink
              Peterman Sucks!
              • Mar 2006
              • 35303

              #7
              Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

              Trying to retain a guy on a hometown discount isn't the wrong way to go about things in general, but when you lowball a guy by 2 million + per season on what he'd get on the open market, you're likely just insulting him and his agent.

              They then stick to their guns and say NO, you're gonna pay me/my client his market value.

              Byrd's market value is highest paid safety in the NFL money. Period.

              Comment

              • SquishDaFish
                Lets GO BUFFALO!!
                • Jun 2005
                • 17034

                #8
                Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

                He is not the top S in the league sorry. I love Byrd on this team but not at #1 S money. 6-8 Million tops

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                • Mr. Pink
                  Peterman Sucks!
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 35303

                  #9
                  Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

                  Originally posted by SquishDaFish View Post
                  He is not the top S in the league sorry. I love Byrd on this team but not at #1 S money. 6-8 Million tops
                  Dashon Goldson got a 5 year 41.25m contract with 22m guaranteed.

                  So you think Byrd should be paid less than that?

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                  • SquishDaFish
                    Lets GO BUFFALO!!
                    • Jun 2005
                    • 17034

                    #10
                    Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

                    I think a 5 year 36M area is where he should be. Maybe 38M and thats a big maybe.

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                    • stuckincincy
                      Buffalo Bills Fan
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 15084

                      #11
                      Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

                      Jairus Byrd, Ryan Clady, others reveal franchise tag's new reality
                      By Albert Breer, Reporter, NFL.com and NFL Network, Published: July 12, 2013

                      Albert Breer examines how the franchise tag, once intended to be used on the likes of John Elway, has been transformed into a mechanism for teams to save money on players like Jairus Byrd.
                      Fiat justitia ruat caelum. Noli timere. Laus Deo.

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                      • better days
                        Registered User
                        • Jan 2010
                        • 22028

                        #12
                        Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

                        Originally posted by Mr. Pink View Post
                        Trying to retain a guy on a hometown discount isn't the wrong way to go about things in general, but when you lowball a guy by 2 million + per season on what he'd get on the open market, you're likely just insulting him and his agent.

                        They then stick to their guns and say NO, you're gonna pay me/my client his market value.

                        Byrd's market value is highest paid safety in the NFL money. Period.
                        Well, if Byrd were a FA on the open market you might be right. But he is not. The NFL has a tag system teams can use & the players ALL AGREED to that system.

                        Comment

                        • Mr. Pink
                          Peterman Sucks!
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 35303

                          #13
                          Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

                          Originally posted by better days View Post
                          Well, if Byrd were a FA on the open market you might be right. But he is not. The NFL has a tag system teams can use & the players ALL AGREED to that system.
                          I'm about paying the man what he's worth so he's here long term and happy. Not a system where you're basically holding the guy hostage where he's unhappy and can't wait to get the hell out of here.

                          Comment

                          • justasportsfan
                            Registered User
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 71579

                            #14
                            Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

                            Originally posted by jdaltroy5 View Post
                            No they don't.

                            How do we feel about Clements?

                            Reactionary idiots think that we made the right move, but did we?

                            After we lost him, we realized that we needed another CB, so what did we do? We used a first rounder on McKelvin.

                            Well that didn't work out, so we decided to sign Florence to a 5 mil a year contract.

                            That didn't work out, so we used a high second on Williams.

                            That didn't work out so we used another first on Gilmore.

                            It took us 5 years and 3 high draft picks to find an adequate replacement.

                            Did San Fran get their money's worth with Clements? Probably not.

                            But you know what it allowed them to do? It allowed them to take players like Patrick Willis, Michael Crabtree, and Mike Iupati because they didn't NEED to take a CB. Once they felt like they didn't need him anymore, they just cut him and saved the rest of the money.

                            If we end up losing Byrd, you can bet your ass we'll be taking a FS in the first 2 rounds next year.
                            I was talking about risks. SF took a huge risk thinking he could play well enough to deserve what was then the highest contract for a cb in NFL history. He didn't play well in that system .

                            Speaking about risks, Welker took a risk and signed the tag and played for the pats. I'm hoping Byrd does the same.

                            The bills already took a risk on Mario Williams who may not pan out under Pettines system or at play well enough to deserve that 100M contract. I can see why the bills didn't take the risk on Byrd this time because of Mario.
                            Last edited by justasportsfan; 07-16-2013, 03:22 PM.
                            sacrifice1
                            https://theinterviewwithgod.com/video/

                            Comment

                            • better days
                              Registered User
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 22028

                              #15
                              Re: Some thoughts on Byrd and the cap

                              Originally posted by Mr. Pink View Post
                              I'm about paying the man what he's worth so he's here long term and happy. Not a system where you're basically holding the guy hostage where he's unhappy and can't wait to get the hell out of here.
                              I am for paying a man what he is worth as well & I don't think Byrd is worth $9 Mill myself.

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