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Mike
07-16-2013, 03:40 PM
Great Article must read:

(WGR 550) -- The talk of the town in regards to the Buffalo Bills this week all revolves around franchised safety Jairus Byrd and what resolution, if any, will come of it by next week. The two sides have until Monday, July 15 at 4 pm to get a long-term contract extension signed, sealed and delivered to league offices.

Based on the latest news and trends, it doesn't appear to be all that likely that Byrd and the Bills reach a conclusion by the beginning of next week. The lingering question, however, is whether or not the free safety is worth the type of money that he is likely asking for.

Using advanced statistics, on the field scouting and some of the top salaries in the league, one can start to figure out if Jairus Byrd has a case to be one of the highest paid at his position in the league.

Top Salaries

Before going through anything else, you have to first identify the top current salaries throughout the National Football League at Byrd's position. Looking at it three different ways (with the help of Spotrac.com, a database for contracts), there are 11 players that appear within the league's top ten salaries.

If you look at it from their 2013 salary cap hit, their 2013 base salaries, or their average salaries, the common names are Pittsburgh's Troy Polamalu, Kansas City's Eric Berry, Tampa Bay's Dashon Goldson, San Diego's Eric Weddle, the New York Giants' Antrel Rolle, Tennessee's Michael Griffin, Indianapolis' Antoine Bethea, Oakland's Tyvon Branch, Indianapolis' LaRon Landry, Houston's Danieal Manning and San Francisco's Donte Whitner.

Byrd, by way of his franchise tag that will be worth $6.916 million if and when it's signed, is among the top seven in all three categories. So how does he stack up against the Polamalu's, Goldson's and Weddle's of the NFL?

Advanced Stats

What makes figuring out a defensive player's worth so incredibly hard to do is because the accepted statistics rarely paint the complete picture as to what an individual brings to the table. It's especially important to complement those statistics with a new way of breaking down players with more situationally specific statistics.

Byrd had a modest 76 tackles which placed him 33rd among safeties in 2012, but also chipped in five interceptions (third among safeties) and four forced fumbles (tied for the most in 2012 among safeties). It's likely the player and his agent, Eugene Parker, are hammering down on those last two statistics to try and bill him as a playmaking safety.

But what do the advanced stats say?

Using a tremendous tool for trying to know the inns and outs of players throughout the league, AdvancedNFLStats.com devised two barometers of a player's excellence or failures. They use 'Win Probability Added' (WPA) and 'Expected Points Added per Game' (EPA/G).

To explain them succinctly, WPA for an individual player measures how much a play that player was directly involved in impacts the outcome of the game. EPA/G instead measures the player's impact on the score of the game with plays that they were involved.

There is much more to it than that so if you have some time, reading the AdvancedNFLStats.com glossary is highly encouraged.

Among the top 12 safeties in the league and how they rank, Byrd (1.49) had the highest WPA of any of them in 2012. He's followed by Rolle (1.45), Weddle (1.41), Manning (1.36), Griffin (0.97), Goldson (0.89), Landry (0.88), Berry (0.85), Bethea (0.80), Whitner (0.65), Branch (0.62) and Polamalu (0.37)

As for EPA/G is concerned, Byrd (2.88) was the second highest among the top 12, ranking only behind New York's Antrel Rolle (3.23). As far as 2012 was concerned through advanced statistics, there weren't many better in the league than Byrd.

However, one year does not always give the full story. Last season provided a significant jump in both WPA and EPA/G for Byrd as opposed to his previous two seasons. Was 2012 an anomaly, or the culmination of Byrd's hard work through the first three years in the league?

Really, that's another factor that makes contracts so difficult because much of it is projection. Will the player that is looking for a boatload of money actually live up to it? If Byrd does what he did in 2012 from an advanced stats perspective for most years of a lucrative long-term deal, the Bills would likely have no problem with paying him $8 to $9 million per season.

The one thing you do look for though is trends. Taking the last three seasons of the top 12's WPA and EPA/G, Byrd still ranks rather favorably. He is fifth of those 12 names in WPA over three seasons (1.09), and sixth in EPA/G (2.36).

Play on the field

Even if you are one that really looks in to advanced stats and how players perform through them, it still can't fully replace scouting and knowing the game inside and out. With football especially, there are too many instances where a player can luck in to a good season. In the grand scheme of things, sixteen games is such a small sample size so you really have to possess a finite sense of a player's strengths and weaknesses on the field.

When it comes to Byrd, his biggest strength without question is his overall instincts of knowing where to be and when to be there. His interceptions do not come by chance, they are a product of natural instincts in being around the game his whole life, along with hard work and preparation on a weekly basis.

Rarely do you see Byrd bite hard on a play action fake, which is an overall epidemic if you watch the past two years of Bills games. He's also turned himself in to a complete player, improving drastically in his overall tackling ability which helped him to as many forced fumbles as he had in 2012.

However, his instincts compensate for where genetics left him short. He is not the biggest, fastest or strongest player at his position. That leaves him having to overcome these certain characteristics where some of his safety brethren don't have to work as hard.

The question surrounding that is obvious. Byrd is turning 27 in the middle of this season. How much longer can his instincts be able to remove his size and speed from being a problem? Normal aging rules indicates that the older a person gets, the slower a person gets.

All things must be considered when it comes to paying a player as much as Byrd likely wants.

Deconstructing myths

There are a couple of lines of thinking that really don't make sense when it comes to deciding on whether or not to give a player a lucrative contract. One is from a team-based perspective, and the other of the positional variety.

The first: "How good could Byrd really be if the defense was as bad as they were?"

That could be one of the most convenient lines of thinking that do not present much understanding as to how the game is played. As we all know, a defense takes 11 pieces to run as a cohesive unit in an offensive-friendly NFL.

In 2012, Byrd was one of the direct reasons that the Bills won three of their six games. Wins against Arizona, Jacksonville and Miami all would have been much more in doubt had it not been for a big turnover made by the free safety. A forced fumble at the end of the first half in Indianapolis that was erroneously overlooked could have dramatically impacted that game, and even early on in their first meeting with New England, Byrd's pair of forced fumbles helped them jump out to a lead.

When an individual has that type of an impact on 25-percent of your games, that's grounds for a dominant player on defense. It's on the front office and coaching staff to cultivate the rest of the talent on defense to not only complement that individual but to put him in even more advantageous situations because of his teammates.

Don't hate the player, hate the construction of the team in that respect.

The second: "You don't overpay for safeties."

Sure, one can make a case that this logic should be observed ten years ago when the adage "run and stop the run" was prevalent in the NFL. However, that is not how today's league is constructed. As written previously, it's a changed league the provides so many opportunities for passing attacks to dominate a game that you need capable players in the defensive secondary to keep quarterbacks, wide receivers and tight ends at bay.

That's why safeties are reaching a high level of importance in the NFL. If a team has a player that offenses come to fear in the secondary, that inhibits what they do not only on game day, but in preparations and trying to overcompensate for that player.

If a team has merely average play from their safeties they should not overspend to keep those individual players. However, if a team has a top five talent that can affect an offense's passing game, then they need to do everything in their power to keep that player.

Conclusion

With all things considered including salaries, trends of advanced statistics, scouting and projection, the Bills shouldn't mess around with Jairus Byrd. After having three different coordinators throughout his first four seasons, imagine how far along he would be if there was some actual continuity at One Bills Drive.

The defense under Mike Pettine calls for safeties to be able to help the team when they're vulnerable from sending as many pass rushers as the Bills likely will. When it comes to Byrd, replacing an elite level safety with a player just switching to the position for the first time in his life (Aaron Williams) is a recipe for disaster.

At the very least, the Bills should work out a one-year contract to get Byrd in to camp on time as to be ready for the season with a new defense. They might be best served, however, to sign Byrd to a lucrative four or five year backloaded contract that they can get off the books after the third season if his play dips.

When you find an elite level player at a position that is trending up in the NFL, teams should not let that slip away unless a suitable understudy is ready to step in. The Bills clearly do not have that, and while fourth-round pick Duke Williams or the recently converted Aaron Williams could become a solid starter down the line, it's tough to top 'elite' on a defense that requires excellent play and instincts from their safeties.

Mike
07-16-2013, 03:42 PM
Not only is he a top safety but the position is gaining importance in the NFL.

How valuable was he last season? According to advanced stats he lead to 3 extra victories and impacted another 5 games in a major way. You out this type of player on a good D and they would dominate!

better days
07-16-2013, 08:26 PM
Well, it is TOO LATE to sign Byrd to a long term contract NOW. They could agree to pay him a little more money than the tag calls for to get him into camp, but I doubt that is what Byrd or Parker want. They will want the Bills to agree to not tag him next year.

I hope the Bills are not STUPID enough to agree to that myself.

IlluminatusUIUC
07-16-2013, 10:16 PM
However, his instincts compensate for where genetics left him short. He is not the biggest, fastest or strongest player at his position. That leaves him having to overcome these certain characteristics where some of his safety brethren don't have to work as hard.

The question surrounding that is obvious. Byrd is turning 27 in the middle of this season. How much longer can his instincts be able to remove his size and speed from being a problem? Normal aging rules indicates that the older a person gets, the slower a person gets.

All things must be considered when it comes to paying a player as much as Byrd likely wants.

This is something you should be asking about a player's third deal, not his second. On a four year deal (tag + 3 years), he would be a UDFA again after his 30th birthday. THEN question his aging. Not when he's 26!

BertSquirtgum
07-16-2013, 11:11 PM
No, the Bills should trade him.

better days
07-16-2013, 11:35 PM
This is something you should be asking about a player's third deal, not his second. On a four year deal (tag + 3 years), he would be a UDFA again after his 30th birthday. THEN question his aging. Not when he's 26!

Well, he is 27, not 26.

BertSquirtgum
07-16-2013, 11:39 PM
The Bills don't need an a-hole that doesn't want to be here. Marrone doesn't need me me me players with what he is trying to build here. Trade him before he gets hurt and is worth nothing.

clumping platelets
07-17-2013, 05:58 AM
I say trade him

Meathead
07-17-2013, 06:52 AM
idk if anybodys thought of this but i say just trade him

GingerP
07-17-2013, 07:21 AM
Well, he is 27, not 26.

He turns 27 next October. He is 26 now.

Thief
07-17-2013, 08:00 AM
idk if anybodys thought of this but i say just trade himLOL, this dude cracks me up.

Thief
07-17-2013, 08:03 AM
I say signing him long term wasn't really a priority. The franchise was what? 7 million this year? Tag him, see how he plays in the new system and then decide to make him highest paid or not. I mean, he Byrd literally cannot ask for more then he already is asking for so there is nothing to lose. Unless he is stupid and holds out til week 10, in which case he is franchised again and ends up trying to strike it rich after playing 12 games over two seasons as our backup.

We seriously have all the chips. It is a win win. You don't trade him unless someone gives you a ridiculous offer, and no one will want to trade for him now anyways since he cannot be extended at this point.

better days
07-17-2013, 08:27 AM
He turns 27 next October. He is 26 now.

OK, he will be 27 before all but a few games are played this year.

IlluminatusUIUC
07-17-2013, 08:31 AM
Well, he is 27, not 26.

http://www.nfl.com/player/jairusbyrd/79899/profile

Age: 26


OK, he will be 27 before all but a few games are played this year.

His birth day is the Saturday before week 8.

Pinkerton Security
07-17-2013, 08:33 AM
Well, it is TOO LATE to sign Byrd to a long term contract NOW. They could agree to pay him a little more money than the tag calls for to get him into camp, but I doubt that is what Byrd or Parker want. They will want the Bills to agree to not tag him next year.

I hope the Bills are not STUPID enough to agree to that myself.

I am asking...is our window literally closed? If he signs his tag, can't we negotiate during the season? Thats obviously an IF, bc he hasnt reported yet.

mayotm
07-17-2013, 08:36 AM
I am asking...is our window literally closed? If he signs his tag, can't we negotiate during the season? Thats obviously an IF, bc he hasnt reported yet.They can negotiate but he can't sign a long term deal until after the season.

better days
07-17-2013, 08:49 AM
http://www.nfl.com/player/jairusbyrd/79899/profile




His birth day is the Saturday before week 8.

Byrd was born Oct 7 1986. The Bills will have played FIVE games before he turns 27. Oct 13 the sixth game against the Bengals. I wonder if Byrd will be playing in that game.

IlluminatusUIUC
07-17-2013, 08:53 AM
Byrd was born Oct 7 1986. The Bills will have played FIVE games before he turns 27. Oct 13 the sixth game against the Bengals. I wonder if Byrd will be playing in that game.

Ahh, good catch. I thought his birthday was the 26th.

Mike
07-17-2013, 12:22 PM
In any case, his stats and value are self evident. Without question, he is a top Free Safety and for a team lacking in talent that are also way below the salary cap signing Byrd shouldn't be a question.

The only logical explanation is that the Bills feel that they won't be competitive in the next 3 years anyways and are trying to save $2M per year.

Clearly the Bills are Not doing everything in their power to field a competitive team and Winning is Not their #1 priority, money is.

GingerP
07-17-2013, 09:03 PM
Byrd was born Oct 7 1986. The Bills will have played FIVE games before he turns 27. Oct 13 the sixth game against the Bengals. I wonder if Byrd will be playing in that game.

Either way, it isn't like he is old. He is a year younger than Mario Williams was when the Bills made him the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history. It isn't like his age is an issue.

better days
07-18-2013, 08:01 AM
Either way, it isn't like he is old. He is a year younger than Mario Williams was when the Bills made him the highest-paid defensive player in NFL history. It isn't like his age is an issue.

I agree. His age is not an issue. Here is the issue for me.........................

When I think Elite safety 3 names come into my mind. #1 is John Lynch who I had the pleasure of watching for years in Tampa. Lynch was not only great at intercepting the ball, but he NAILED anyone that had the misfortune to be in his area.

#2 is Ed Reed, much like John Lynch. #3 is Troy Polomalou a great safety if not quite the hitter Lynch was & Reed is.

Byrd has a nose for the ball, but he does not bring the wood like Lynch & Reed. I don't know, but maybe that is the reason the Bills do not seem to value Byrd as highly as he values himself. Maybe Pettine & the Bills want the safety to be much more of a thumper than Byrd is.

IlluminatusUIUC
07-18-2013, 10:11 AM
I agree. His age is not an issue. Here is the issue for me.........................

When I think Elite safety 3 names come into my mind. #1 is John Lynch who I had the pleasure of watching for years in Tampa. Lynch was not only great at intercepting the ball, but he NAILED anyone that had the misfortune to be in his area.

#2 is Ed Reed, much like John Lynch. #3 is Troy Polomalou a great safety if not quite the hitter Lynch was & Reed is.

Byrd has a nose for the ball, but he does not bring the wood like Lynch & Reed. I don't know, but maybe that is the reason the Bills do not seem to value Byrd as highly as he values himself. Maybe Pettine & the Bills want the safety to be much more of a thumper than Byrd is.

I doubt Byrd would be known as a bone cruncher in any era, but you should also keep in mind that Lynch, Reed, and Polamalu all played the bulk of their careers before the expansion of the defenseless receiver rule. Remember how Reed was nearly suspended this year over it? The era of the thumper safety is done.

And again, Byrd forces fumbles at a much higher rate than any of those guys, so it's not like you need to rock someone to get a big play out of it.

better days
07-19-2013, 09:21 AM
I doubt Byrd would be known as a bone cruncher in any era, but you should also keep in mind that Lynch, Reed, and Polamalu all played the bulk of their careers before the expansion of the defenseless receiver rule. Remember how Reed was nearly suspended this year over it? The era of the thumper safety is done.

And again, Byrd forces fumbles at a much higher rate than any of those guys, so it's not like you need to rock someone to get a big play out of it.

Good point about the rules changes, but I don't know where you get the idea Byrd forces fumbles at a higher rate than three HOF players. Lynch, Reed & Polamolou are all HOF players, do you really think Byrd gets into the HOF?

IlluminatusUIUC
07-19-2013, 09:57 AM
Good point about the rules changes, but I don't know where you get the idea Byrd forces fumbles at a higher rate than three HOF players.

By looking at the amount of fumbles they forced. It's not complicated.

Byrd: 10 FF in 4 seasons
Lynch: 16 FF in 15 seasons
Reed: 11 FF in 11 seasons
Polamalu: 8 FF in 10 seasons (Byrd already passed him)


Lynch, Reed & Polamolou are all HOF players, do you really think Byrd gets into the HOF?

After only four years? Of course not. After his career? Possibly. I ran the numbers on a different board:

Ok, let's project a 10 year career, using his season averages.

2 sacks in 4 seasons = .5 sacks per year.
219 tackles/4 = 54.75 tackles per year.
10 forced fumbles/4 = 2.5 forced fumbles per year
2 TDs in 4 years = .5 TD per year

So projected out 10 seasons we get: 5 sacks, 5 TDs, 25 forced fumbles, 47 INTs, 547.5 tackles
By comparison, Polamalu just finished his 10th season: 10 sacks, 4 TDs, 8 forced fumbles, 30 INTs, 489 tackles.
Ed Reed just finished his 11th season, dropping off last year gives: 6 sacks, 12 TDs, 11 forced fumbles, 57 INTs, 461 tackles
Ronnie Lott's first 10 seasons: 5.5 sacks, 5 TDs, 8 forced fumbles, 51 INTs, 721 tackles (Jesus)

So if he maintained that pace exactly and stopped at ten years, he'd be Troy Vincent basically. A charter member of the Hall of the Really Good, but not HOF.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 10:05 AM
By looking at the amount of fumbles they forced. It's not complicated.

Byrd: 10 FF in 4 seasons
Lynch: 16 FF in 15 seasons
Reed: 11 FF in 11 seasons
Polamalu: 8 FF in 10 seasons (Byrd already passed him)



After only four years? Of course not. After his career? Possibly. I ran the numbers on a different board:

Ok, let's project a 10 year career, using his season averages.

2 sacks in 4 seasons = .5 sacks per year.
219 tackles/4 = 54.75 tackles per year.
10 forced fumbles/4 = 2.5 forced fumbles per year
2 TDs in 4 years = .5 TD per year

So projected out 10 seasons we get: 5 sacks, 5 TDs, 25 forced fumbles, 47 INTs, 547.5 tackles
By comparison, Polamalu just finished his 10th season: 10 sacks, 4 TDs, 8 forced fumbles, 30 INTs, 489 tackles.
Ed Reed just finished his 11th season, dropping off last year gives: 6 sacks, 12 TDs, 11 forced fumbles, 57 INTs, 461 tackles
Ronnie Lott's first 10 seasons: 5.5 sacks, 5 TDs, 8 forced fumbles, 51 INTs, 721 tackles (Jesus)

So if he maintained that pace exactly and stopped at ten years, he'd be Troy Vincent basically. A charter member of the Hall of the Really Good, but not HOF.
I know you're just doing a straight comparison, but that doesn't even take into account Byrd's career trajectory since he's just entering his prime.

IlluminatusUIUC
07-19-2013, 10:08 AM
I know you're just doing a straight comparison, but that doesn't even take into account Byrd's career trajectory since he's just entering his prime.

Yeah that was in response to a homer on a different board (take a few guesses and you'll probably be right) just saying 'Well if we average his INTs over 10 years, he'd only have 47.' Which he didn't seem impressed by.

Somewhere on here I compared Byrd to Reed and Polamalu's first four seasons as well.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 10:16 AM
Yeah that was in response to a homer on a different board (take a few guesses and you'll probably be right) just saying 'Well if we average his INTs over 10 years, he'd only have 47.' Which he didn't seem impressed by.

Somewhere on here I compared Byrd to Reed and Polamalu's first four seasons as well.
Well it certainly follows my homer logic that I've talked about.

Does he play for the Bills? Yes = Amazing. No = Terrible.

It's crazy how Byrd went from an amazing, Pro Bowl FS to average and irrelevant in Pettine's system in one short off-season.

better days
07-19-2013, 10:16 AM
I know you're just doing a straight comparison, but that doesn't even take into account Byrd's career trajectory since he's just entering his prime.

Just entering his prime? He will be 27 EARLY this season. He is in the MIDDLE of his prime. In 4 years he will be on the downslope.

IlluminatusUIUC
07-19-2013, 10:40 AM
Just entering his prime? He will be 27 EARLY this season. He is in the MIDDLE of his prime.

No, for most positions a guy's prime is 26-29/30. Troy P won DPOTY at 29, Reed won it at 26.


In 4 years he will be on the downslope.

So give him a 4 year contract then and see how good he is in 2018. Not to mention that FS is generally the position older players move to because it's more cerebral and less physical.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 10:47 AM
Just entering his prime? He will be 27 EARLY this season. He is in the MIDDLE of his prime. In 4 years he will be on the downslope.
Really?

Well let's use your two favourite players as an example.

Troy Polamalu -
Most INTs: 7 (twice) aged 27 and 29.
Most forced fumbles: 3, aged 26
Defensive player of the year: Aged 29

Ed Reed -
Most INTs: 9 (twice) aged 26 and 30.
Most forced fumbles: 3 (twice) aged 26 and 31.
Defensive player of the year: Aged 26
Defensive back of the year: twice, aged 26 and 30.
Interceptions leader: (three times) aged 26, 30, 32.

So no, Byrd isn't in the MIDDLE of his prime, he is just entering it. The prime years for a player are usually from 26-29.

stuckincincy
07-19-2013, 10:56 AM
mi·nu·ti·a (definition)
[mi-noo-shee-uh, -shuh, -nyoo-]

Noun, plural mi·nu·ti·ae [mi-noo-shee-ee, -nyoo-]

1. Usually, minutiae. precise details; small or trifling matters: the minutiae of his craft.

2. Endless yammering about Jarius Byrd.

Origin:
1745–55; < Latin minūtia smallness, equivalent to minūt ( us ) minute2 + -ia -ia

better days
07-19-2013, 12:34 PM
No, for most positions a guy's prime is 26-29/30. Troy P won DPOTY at 29, Reed won it at 26.



So give him a 4 year contract then and see how good he is in 2018. Not to mention that FS is generally the position older players move to because it's more cerebral and less physical.

Totally disagree about the age. 24-30 are the prime years. Some players play well after age 30 but not the majority. At age 27, Byrd is in the MIDDLE of his prime, not just entering it.

And older players move from CB to Safety because they no longer have the physical tools to play CB. Usually that happens around age 30 give or take a year or two.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 12:48 PM
Totally disagree about the age. 24-30 are the prime years. Some players play well after age 30 but not the majority. At age 27, Byrd is in the MIDDLE of his prime, not just entering it.

And older players move from CB to Safety because they no longer have the physical tools to play CB. Usually that happens around age 30 give or take a year or two.

How can a player be in his prime at 24? He would've just entered the league.

Hell, just look at the last 20 defensive players of the year and their corresponding age the year that they won:

JJ Watt: 24
Terrell Suggs: 29
Troy Polamalu: 29
Charles Woodson: 33
James Harrison: 30
Bob Sanders: 26
Jason Taylor: 32
Brian Urlacher: 27
Ed Reed: 26
Ray Lewis: 28
Derrick Brooks: 29
Michael Strahan: 30
Ray Lewis: 25
Warren Sapp: 28
Reggie White: 37
Dana Stubblefield: 27
Bruce Smith: 33
Bryce Paup: 27
Deion Sanders: 27
Rod Woodson: 28

IlluminatusUIUC
07-19-2013, 01:19 PM
Totally disagree about the age. 24-30 are the prime years. Some players play well after age 30 but not the majority. At age 27, Byrd is in the MIDDLE of his prime, not just entering it.

It's not just about their physicality. Yes, a 24 year old is close to his physical peak, but he needs to learn the pro game. It usually takes 3-4 seasons for a player (at most positions) to maximize not only their training, but their understanding of the position. Byrd really entered that last season, not three years ago.


And older players move from CB to Safety because they no longer have the physical tools to play CB. Usually that happens around age 30 give or take a year or two.

Right, that's what I said. It's a position you can play without being an elite athlete if you have a superior knowledge of the game and good instincts. But quality safeties with injury luck can have very long careers. Lynch was playing at a high level at 36. Rod Woodson was playing at a high level at 37. Brian Dawkins was playing at a high level at 38.

better days
07-19-2013, 02:06 PM
How can a player be in his prime at 24? He would've just entered the league.

Hell, just look at the last 20 defensive players of the year and their corresponding age the year that they won:

JJ Watt: 24
Terrell Suggs: 29
Troy Polamalu: 29
Charles Woodson: 33
James Harrison: 30
Bob Sanders: 26
Jason Taylor: 32
Brian Urlacher: 27
Ed Reed: 26
Ray Lewis: 28
Derrick Brooks: 29
Michael Strahan: 30
Ray Lewis: 25
Warren Sapp: 28
Reggie White: 37
Dana Stubblefield: 27
Bruce Smith: 33
Bryce Paup: 27
Deion Sanders: 27
Rod Woodson: 28

Pro Bowl votes are a popularity poll. Players are chosen on what they did BEFORE. MANY times players make the Pro Bowl for a few years AFTER they deserve to do so.

And look at that list. ONLY 4 Players over the age of 30 on it and EVERY ONE of those 4 is a HOF player.

Some players come into the NFL READY to make their mark. But especially with players coming out early I think the average age a player comes into the NFL is 22. Most people start College at 18 years old which makes them 22 after 4 years. Some players redshirt & get an extra year in College, but far more leave College early.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 02:11 PM
Pro Bowl votes are a popularity poll. Players are chosen on what they did BEFORE. MANY times players make the Pro Bowl for a few years AFTER they deserve to do so.

And look at that list. ONLY 4 Players over the age of 30 on it and EVERY ONE of those 4 is a HOF player.

Some players come into the NFL READY to make their mark. But especially with players coming out early I think the average age a player comes into the NFL is 22. Most people start College at 18 years old which makes them 22 after 4 years. Some players redshirt & get an extra year in College, but far more leave College early.
That's not a pro bowl vote. That's defensive player of the year.

Those are mostly all hall of fame players that reached the culmination of their careers at the average age of 28.75.

At that point, they have the instincts, the vision, and the strength. They don't have to think, they can just react. They are also young enough to have the speed and quickness.

That's why Byrd is just entering the prime of his career and (coincidentally) is also coming off his best season.

better days
07-19-2013, 02:18 PM
That's not a pro bowl vote. That's defensive player of the year.

Those are mostly all hall of fame players that reached the culmination of their careers at the average age of 28.75.

At that point, they have the instincts, the vision, and the strength. They don't have to think, they can just react. They are also young enough to have the speed and quickness.

That's why Byrd is just entering the prime of his career and (coincidentally) is also coming off his best season.

Still a popularity poll. I already said players, ESPECIALLY HOF players can play well past age 30.

I still maintain PRIME is between 24-30 & yes that includes learning the NFL game. MOST 24 year old players have 2 years NFL experience.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 02:26 PM
Still a popularity poll. I already said players, ESPECIALLY HOF players can play well past age 30. The defensive player of the year vote is a popularity vote? What lengths will you go to try to reinforce your unabashed homerism?

It's voted on by the Associated Press, NOT the fans. This isn't like some back up running back making the pro bowl team because he's popular on facebook. Those guys are all dominant and most are future hall of famers.

And yes, those players can play well past 30 and still be dominant. It's actually much more likely for a player over 30 to win the DPOY over a guy who is under 25. Might have something to do with the fact that they are the best of all time.


I still maintain PRIME is between 24-30 & yes that includes learning the NFL game. MOST 24 year old players have 2 years NFL experience.Of course you're still going to maintain it, despite the mountain of evidence that totally contradicts it. If you renege, you might have to *gasp* admit that the Bills are stupid for not signing a guy who is just entering his prime.

better days
07-19-2013, 02:36 PM
The defensive player of the year vote is a popularity vote? What lengths will you go to try to reinforce your unabashed homerism?

It's voted on by the Associated Press, NOT the fans. This isn't like some back up running back making the pro bowl team because he's popular on facebook. Those guys are all dominant and most are future hall of famers.

And yes, those players can play well past 30 and still be dominant. It's actually much more likely for a player over 30 to win the DPOY over a guy who is under 25. Might have something to do with the fact that they are the best of all time.

Of course you're still going to maintain it, despite the mountain of evidence that totally contradicts it. If you renege, you might have to *gasp* admit that the Bills are stupid for not signing a guy who is just entering his prime.

You are grasping at straws. 27 is only 3 years away from 30. That is NOT JUST ENTERING! it is WELL INTO. By age 30 far more players are OUT of the NFL rather than playing well in it.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 02:36 PM
And even by your own admission, he has STILL has 4 years of being in his prime.

And you also said this:


I already said players, ESPECIALLY HOF players can play well past age 30.

So he's in his prime, will be for the next 4 years, and he can play well past the age of 30.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like a player I want on my team.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 02:41 PM
You are grasping at straws. 27 is only 3 years away from 30. That is NOT JUST ENTERING! it is WELL INTO. By age 30 far more players are OUT of the NFL rather than playing well in it.
Grasping at straws?

Give me a break. I've shown the breakdown of your two favourite players and when they hit their peaks. I've posted the ages of the last 20 DPOY and their average age. All you've said is "He's in the middle of his prime right now!"

Yeah, 30 is over 3 years away. Why stop there? He's only 13 years away from being 40! God, cut his old ass right now.

better days
07-19-2013, 02:43 PM
And even by your own admission, he has STILL has 4 years of being in his prime.

And you also said this:



So he's in his prime, will be for the next 4 years, and he can play well past the age of 30.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like a player I want on my team.

If he WANTED to be in Buffalo, I would want him as well.

I am not a fan of losing GOOD players like Byrd, Levitre, Lynch or Clements. Sometimes it can't be helped.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 02:52 PM
If he WANTED to be in Buffalo, I would want him as well.Who says he doesn't want to be in Buffalo? He just wants fair compensation to be here.

Say AOL hired you 10 years ago. Now, that company is a laughing stock, there is continuous turnover in management, they're never in the press for anything positive, the office is far from your home and family, and there is uncertainty in the ownership.

Now Google comes along and says, "Hey better days, we want you to come over and join us. Our stock is on the rise, we have a great working environment, and you can do relevant work!"

Are you going to say, "No thanks. AOL hired me originally and I want to stay loyal to them! I don't care if I never get a promotion and no one recognizes my work!"


I am not a fan of losing GOOD players like Byrd, Levitre, Lynch or Clements. Sometimes it can't be helped.Yeah, and most of the time, it can be helped. By paying them.

better days
07-19-2013, 02:55 PM
Who says he doesn't want to be in Buffalo? He just wants fair compensation to be here.

Say AOL hired you 10 years ago. Now, that company is a laughing stock, there is continuous turnover in management, they're never in the press for anything positive, the office is far from your home and family, and there is uncertainty in the ownership.

Now Google comes along and says, "Hey better days, we want you to come over and join us. Our stock is on the rise, we have a great working environment, and you can do relevant work!"

Are you going to say, "No thanks. AOL hired me originally and I want to stay loyal to them! I don't care if I never get a promotion and no one recognizes my work!"

Yeah, and most of the time, it can be helped. By paying them.

There is pay & there is OVERPAY. The Bills did overpay Mario Williams & MANY people are *****ing about that.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 02:57 PM
There is pay & there is OVERPAY. The Bills did overpay Mario Williams & MANY people are *****ing about that.
Tell me, what is so wrong with overpaying a guy 1.5 million dollars?

It will lower our cap space to 15 million?

Oh the humanity!

better days
07-19-2013, 03:04 PM
Tell me, what is so wrong with overpaying a guy 1.5 million dollars?

It will lower our cap space to 15 million?

Oh the humanity!

If the difference between the Bills & Parker/Byrd really is only $1.5 Mill, that does not seem like too much to over pay & I would have been in favor of giving him the money myself.

Maybe the Bills want to see how Byrd will play in the new defense before giving him the long term contract.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 03:09 PM
If the difference between the Bills & Parker/Byrd really is only $1.5 Mill, that does not seem like too much to over pay & I would have been in favor of giving him the money myself.

Maybe the Bills want to see how Byrd will play in the new defense before giving him the long term contract.

Then why didn't they just sign him to a one year, 10 mil deal just to ensure he's in camp on time and participating in OTAs?

better days
07-19-2013, 03:14 PM
Then why didn't they just sign him to a one year, 10 mil deal just to ensure he's in camp on time and participating in OTAs?

Well, they can most likely get him into camp on time if they agree to not franchise him next year. If the Bills rescind the tag for next year, I think the plan will be to PAY Byrd next year if he plays well this year or let him walk if he doesn't.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 03:16 PM
Well, they can most likely get him into camp on time if they agree to not franchise him next year. If the Bills rescind the tag for next year, I think the plan will be to PAY Byrd next year if he plays well this year or let him walk if he doesn't.
That would be the worst thing they could do.

If they're not allowed to franchise him next year, we'd lose all leverage and we'll end up losing him for a third round comp pick.

I'd rather he sit out until week 10, franchise him again, and then trade him.

better days
07-19-2013, 03:23 PM
That would be the worst thing they could do.

If they're not allowed to franchise him next year, we'd lose all leverage and we'll end up losing him for a third round comp pick.

I'd rather he sit out until week 10, franchise him again, and then trade him.

Well, if you think

1) Byrd is an ELITE Safety &

2) you also BELIEVE Byrd WANTS to be in Buffalo as long as he is paid fairly.

Why not rescind the tag & view him as a FA you are willing to pay?

If you don't think Byrd is Elite or that he does not want to be in Buffalo, then DON'T rescind the tag. Which is probably what will happen.

jdaltroy5
07-19-2013, 03:27 PM
Well, if you think

1) Byrd is an ELITE Safety &

2) you also BELIEVE Byrd WANTS to be in Buffalo as long as he is paid fairly.

Why not rescind the tag & view him as a FA you are willing to pay?

If you don't think Byrd is Elite or that he does not want to be in Buffalo, then DON'T rescind the tag. Which is probably what will happen.
That's not the way to look at it though. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. You can't just rely on good faith.

By losing the tag, you're losing all of your leverage. They will essentially enter into a bidding war if he hits the open market and you can guarantee that he won't be giving any home town discount.

They could end up paying over 10 mil a year to keep him.