Mario's contract is pay as you go?

[X-Era]

If this is right, we can walk away each year if we choose.

"The base value is $96 million. The incentives can push the deal to $100 million. At the time of signing, the deal contains fully guaranteed money in the amount of $24.9 million.
Also, another $17.1 million is guaranteed for injury only at the time of signing; $6.5 million of it becomes fully guaranteed later. It’s unclear whether the $8 million option bonus is fully guaranteed; as a practical matter, it is.
Given the $10.6 million roster bonus due in 2014, it’s a two-year, $40 million contract with a team-held option on the final four years. More accurately, it’s a two-year contract with a one-year-at-a-time decision by the team as to whether it continues."


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/17/breaking-down-the-mario-williams-deal/

[coastal]

Thank God.

[DraftBoy]

I thought this was announced/reported shortly after he signed it? Maybe I'm confusing other deals with this one.

[X-Era]

I thought this was announced/reported shortly after he signed it? Maybe I'm confusing other deals with this one.My memory stinks so it could have been.

[DraftBoy]

My memory stinks so it could have been.

Either way.

[MikeInRoch]

It was announced when he signed it, yes.

[OpIv37]

Great.

He'll get cut next off-season and Ralph will have his excuse to not sign any big name FA's until 2018.

[GingerP]

Keep in mind if they cut him before paying him the $10.8M roster bonus after this season he is on the cap for $17.8M in dead money in 2014. They already have $7M in dead money next year for Fitzpatrick and $3M in dead money for Anderson next year, so if they cut him they would have a whopping $27.8M in dead money in 2014.

If they designate him a June 2 release he counts $5.4M in dead money next year and $12.4M in dead money in 2015, but that means they have to carry his full $18.4M cap number until June 1. That ties up a lot of cap and effectively keeps them from taking part in FA.

That $10.6M roster bonus next year and large salaries every year after allow the Bills to get out of his contract, but it won't be painless. They paid him a ton of money and have to account for it on the cap.

[HAMMER]

Great.

He'll get cut next off-season and Ralph will have his excuse to not sign any big name FA's until 2018.

This post sounds like a teenage girl.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why the **** would we want to cut him?

[justasportsfan]

Great.

He'll get cut next off-season and Ralph will have his excuse to not sign any big name FA's until 2018.

so are you saying Ralph should keep Mario if he doesn't playup to his contract? Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

[more cowbell]

Ok so...the guy had 46 tackles, 2 forced fumbles and 10.5 sacks last year on arguably the worst defense in the NFL. We all know he started off slow, but...cutting him? Because he's missing practice for a sore foot...................come on people.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

obviously the cut him posts are idiotic. realistically though, the whole thing is a little bizarre. hes physically fine all offseason, excited the day before camp, and then has disappeared with a " sore foot" and marrone has literally no information, like not even some vague info like we think he just twisted it, or its a bruise, but hes going through a full evaluation... it's very odd actually

[NOT THE DUDE...]

we found out in a matter of minutes that pough has a stinger, so something is obviously strange about this

[gebobs]

He sounds like the kid who wants to get out of taking a test in class and fakes a tummy ache.

[BillsFever21]

Keep in mind if they cut him before paying him the $10.8M roster bonus after this season he is on the cap for $17.8M in dead money in 2014. They already have $7M in dead money next year for Fitzpatrick and $3M in dead money for Anderson next year, so if they cut him they would have a whopping $27.8M in dead money in 2014.

If they designate him a June 2 release he counts $5.4M in dead money next year and $12.4M in dead money in 2015, but that means they have to carry his full $18.4M cap number until June 1. That ties up a lot of cap and effectively keeps them from taking part in FA.

That $10.6M roster bonus next year and large salaries every year after allow the Bills to get out of his contract, but it won't be painless. They paid him a ton of money and have to account for it on the cap.

Your cap number and the actual money you are paying out it totally different things. Ralph wouldn't care about the cap hit if he could save the 10+ million dollar roster bonus if he's not living up to expectations after this season. That's how it goes with almost any player the first year they are released after a big deal. That's why they budget the cash to crap method and count their bonuses into the current year salary instead of spreading them out in their internal cap like most teams do.

As far as the cap goes that's not a huge issue anyway. He would still count a ton towards the cap and most likely we won't be using it all next season anyway. Hell we're sitting there with 20 million dollars this year and didn't get one legitimate starter, re-sign either of our top FA's or extend any other young talent we have with it. That 20 million dollars is just going to waste this season.

[BertSquirtgum]

Great.

He'll get cut next off-season and Ralph will have his excuse to not sign any big name FA's until 2018.

You're a waste product.

[l3ills]

This thread has made me stupider yah stupider.

[feldspar]

Keep in mind if they cut him before paying him the $10.8M roster bonus after this season he is on the cap for $17.8M in dead money in 2014. They already have $7M in dead money next year for Fitzpatrick and $3M in dead money for Anderson next year, so if they cut him they would have a whopping $27.8M in dead money in 2014.

If they designate him a June 2 release he counts $5.4M in dead money next year and $12.4M in dead money in 2015, but that means they have to carry his full $18.4M cap number until June 1. That ties up a lot of cap and effectively keeps them from taking part in FA.

That $10.6M roster bonus next year and large salaries every year after allow the Bills to get out of his contract, but it won't be painless. They paid him a ton of money and have to account for it on the cap.

I found this table...

<table ><thead><tr><th width=25%>Year</th><th width=25%>Cap <br />Value</th><th width=25%>Dead<br /> Money</th><th width=25%>Cap <br />Savings</th></tr></thead><tr><td>2012</td><td>$9,800,000</td><td>$24,900,000</td><td>($15,100,000)</td></tr><tr><td>2013</td><td>$12,400,000</td><td>$29,700,000</td><td>($17,300,000)</td></tr><tr><td>2014</td><td>$18,400,000</td><td>$17,800,000</td><td>$600,000</td></tr><tr><td>2015</td><td>$19,000,000</td><td>$12,400,000</td><td>$6,600,000</td></tr><tr><td>2016</td><td>$19,900,000</td>
<td>$7,000,000</td>
<td>$12,900,000</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>2017</td>
<td>$16,500,000</td>
<td>$1,600,000</td>
<td>$14,900,000</td>
</tr>
</table>

[feldspar]

Looking at the table:

<table><thead><tr><th width=25%>Year</th><th width=25%>Cap <br />Value</th><th width=25%>Dead<br /> Money</th><th width=25%>Cap <br />Savings</th></tr></thead><tr><td>2012</td><td>$9,800,000</td><td>$24,900,000</td><td>($15,100,000)</td></tr><tr><td>2013</td><td>$12,400,000</td><td>$29,700,000</td><td>($17,300,000)</td></tr><tr><td>2014</td><td>$18,400,000</td><td>$17,800,000</td><td>$600,000</td></tr><tr><td>2015</td><td>$19,000,000</td><td>$12,400,000</td><td>$6,600,000</td></tr><tr><td>2016</td><td>$19,900,000</td><td>$7,000,000</td><td>$12,900,000</td></tr><tr><td>2017</td><td>$16,500,000</td><td>$1,600,000</td><td>$14,900,000</td></tr></table>

It doesn't really make any sense to cut Mario financially any time soon, unless you want Ralph to have more money in his pocket for some reason. I'd say he should be on the team until at least through the 2015 season (or the next three years), because if you aren't paying him, there is a bunch of unspendable money anyway.

All issues of money aside, Mario is a very good player, and the Bills are a better team with him on it. I can't wait to see what he does in Pettine's scheme. All this talking of cutting bait by some people is a bit ridiculous.

[OpIv37]

so are you saying Ralph should keep Mario if he doesn't playup to his contract? Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Either Mario plays up to his contract, or he gets cut.

Not sure how expecting a player to perform at the level for which he is compensated is " damned if he does, damned if he doesn't."

[OpIv37]

You're a waste product.

Once again, you read something that you disagree with, and insult it rather than attempting to discuss it. Ironically you accuse me of being a waste as you consistently add nothing of value with posts like this.

[OpIv37]

and btw did any of you happen to notice that I didn't say he should be cut or I wanted him cut? I simply made a comment as to what's most likely to happen if is contract really is "pay as you go."

[justasportsfan]

Either Mario plays up to his contract, or he gets cut.I agree.


Not sure how expecting a player to perform at the level for which he is compensated is " damned if he does, damned if he doesn't."

That was meant for your Ralph comment about him having an excuse to not sign an FA .If Ralph cuts MArio for not playing up to his contract you should be praising him, but instead you're already talking crap and ready to blame Ralph. No matter what the bills do, you're already *****ing just to ***** about something that hasn't even happened. You're taking your *****ing just to ***** to new heights.

[jdaltroy5]

Either Mario plays up to his contract, or he gets cut.

Not sure how expecting a player to perform at the level for which he is compensated is " damned if he does, damned if he doesn't."
I don't think he has to perform up to his contract. He would, quite literally, have to be the defensive player of the year to live up to that contract.

As long as he is playing well and is a factor in games, I have no problem with him being overpaid.

[OpIv37]

I agree.



That was meant for your Ralph comment about him having an excuse to not sign an FA .If Ralph cuts MArio for not playing up to his contract you should be praising him, but instead you're already talking crap and ready to blame Ralph. No matter what the bills do, you're already *****ing just to ***** about something that hasn't even happened. You're taking your *****ing just to ***** to new heights.

I want the Bills to spend money on FA's who actually help the team win. If they don't spend money, or if they spend money on guys who don't help the team win, I'm gonna *****, as any fan who wants the team to win should. I simply want them to FINALLY get it right after 13 years of struggling and far more FA misses than hits. What's wrong with that?

[justasportsfan]

I want the Bills to spend money on FA's who actually help the team win. If they don't spend money, or if they spend money on guys who don't help the team win, I'm gonna *****, as any fan who wants the team to win should. I simply want them to FINALLY get it right after 13 years of struggling and far more FA misses than hits. What's wrong with that?

Why don't you wait for the future before you start blaming Ralph for anything ?

You ***** about Ralph not signing an FA, Ralph signs the biggest FA last year. If Mario doesn't live up to that and Ralph does the right thing and cuts him..... Ralph is an idiot for doing the right thing?

[OpIv37]

Why don't you wait for the future before you start blaming Ralph for anything ?

You ***** about Ralph not signing an FA, Ralph signs the biggest FA last year. If Mario doesn't live up to that and Ralph does the right thing and cuts him..... Ralph is an idiot for doing the right thing?

Ralph is an idiot for paying the wrong FA's then going into years of FA hibernation. In 2003 he basically got it right with Spikes and Fletcher, but then we didn't sign any big name FA's until 2007 when we got Dockery. We got burned on Dockery, so he didn't sign any big name FA's until we got Mario Williams until 2012. (you could argue TO but that was only because no one else wanted him).

I hope Mario returns to form this year and actually works out, but if he doesn't, the most likely outcome is that Ralph will go years without paying another big time FA because that's been his MO. I don't like it but the truth is what it is.

[justasportsfan]

Ralph is an idiot for paying the wrong FA's then going into years of FA hibernation. In 2003 he basically got it right with Spikes and Fletcher, but then we didn't sign any big name FA's until 2007 when we got Dockery. We got burned on Dockery, so he didn't sign any big name FA's until we got Mario Williams until 2012. (you could argue TO but that was only because no one else wanted him).



Oh so now you're against him signing Dockery when you were all for it when he did? That tells me you were wrong as well.



I hope Mario returns to form this year and actually works out, but if he doesn't, the most likely outcome is that Ralph will go years without paying another big time FA because that's been his MO. I don't like it but the truth is what it is. There is no concrete evidence whether Ralph is still making the decisions with this team like he has in the past yet you're already blaming what MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT happen in the future?


Answer this, were you against the Mario signing?

[OpIv37]

Oh so now you're against him signing Dockery when you were all for it when he did? That tells me you were wrong as well.

There is no concrete evidence whether Ralph is still making the decisions with this team like he has in the past yet you're already blaming what MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT happen in the future?


Answer this, were you against the Mario signing?

This has nothing to do with whether I was for or against any particular signing when it happened because it's not about me. It's about whether the signings worked out. Dockery didn't work out and so far Mario hasn't worked out either. I'm just a fan- I don't know why you are trying to hold me to the same standard as the guys that make millions to get it right.

[justasportsfan]

This has nothing to do with whether I was for or against any particular signing when it happened because it's not about me. It's about whether the signings worked out. Dockery didn't work out and so far Mario hasn't worked out either. I'm just a fan- I don't know why you are trying to hold me to the same standard as the guys that make millions to get it right.You sound just like Pat Moran.

you like telling people here your opinion is better than theirs, so I am simply pointing out how you were all for Dockery before you're against it after the smoke cleared. You flipflopped . This means hindsight is 20/20 and you're nobetter than anyone here.

[OpIv37]

You sound just like Pat Moran.

you like telling people here your opinion is better than theirs, so I am simply pointing out how you were all for Dockery before you're against it after the smoke cleared. You flipflopped . This means hindsight is 20/20 and you're nobetter than anyone here.

I didn't "flipflop." I was simply wrong- one of the rare times as my track record here has shown. There's a difference between being wrong and flip-flopping.

[Skooby]

I smell another Justa / OP multi-month battle brewing. Mario is a little odd but if he performs, then it's all good.

[justasportsfan]

I didn't "flipflop." I was simply wrong- one of the rare times as my track record here has shown. There's a difference between being wrong and flip-flopping.

So now it's about you. Since you were wrong, you can't use Dockery as an argument because were were for it.

[justasportsfan]

I smell another Justa / OP multi-month battle brewing. Mario is a little odd but if he performs, then it's all good.

Actually betterdays has taken my place :D.
OP and I actually agree on Mario under performing and that this is his put up or shut up season.

[OpIv37]

So now it's about you. Since you were wrong, you can't use Dockery as an argument because were were for it.

Once again, I don't get paid millions to get it right like the guys who work for the team. They get paid to make the right decisions and they get paid to win- if they fail, my personal opinion does not absolve them from criticism.

[justasportsfan]

Once again, I don't get paid millions to get it right like the guys who work for the team. They get paid to make the right decisions and they get paid to win- if they fail, my personal opinion does not absolve them from criticism. I'm arguing your opinion from a fans perspective. I know you're no better than Ralph. ;)