Difference on how good teams balance their salary cap

[BillsFever21]

You can tell the huge differences from cap management that myself and many others have been saying for years when it comes to how the Bills work their salary cap and top notch teams over the years. The Bills have a bunch of average guys making 3+ million a year without many top level players. The Ravens have more top level players making big money but less guys in the middle making bigger money.

We will use the Ravens as one example since they have been good for years, won the SB last season and just finally ran into cap trouble this year. This is how you are supposed to build a team. You sign your young premium players and you do a good job at drafting or finding deals in free agency to fill out the rest of your roster as cheaply as you can.

The Bills have 11 players making 3 million dollars or more. The Ravens have 7 players making 3 million dollars or more.

The Bills have 17 players making 2 million dollars or more. The Ravens have 13 players making two million or more.

The Bills have 24 players making 1 million dollars or more. The Ravens have 20 players making 1 million dollars or more.

The Bills have 7 players making between 3-4million a year. The Ravens don't have anybody making between 3-4 million a year.

The Bills have 10 players making between 3-6 million a year. The Ravens have 4 players making between 3-6 million a year.

This is what many of us have been saying for years. The Bills love signing a bunch of average players to 3-6 million a year instead of paying a premium to retain or sign the premium players.

You build a team by keeping your good talent and filling out the roster with cheaper players by good drafting and having players that can fill in the gaps for the positions you can't retain. The Bills haven't learned this lesson yet.

[BillsFever21]

The Bills have 4 players making 4 million or more a year. The Ravens have 9 players making 4 million or more a year.

The Bills 5th highest paid player on the team would be the 10th highest paid player on the Ravens.

The Bills have 1 player making more then 6 million a year. The Ravens have 4 players making more then 6 million a year.

Just more stark contrast on how a good front office manages their salary cap compared to the Bills previous regime.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap-hit/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap-hit/

[BillsFever21]

The Bills have 13 players making between 2-4 million a year. The Ravens have 6 players making between 2-4 million a year.

This also shows that the Bills have plenty enough cap space to keep their good players and any other reasons are just an excuse.

The Bills strategy is to have a bunch of average players while a good team like the Ravens keep premium players signed for big money but they find other players at a cheaper price to fill out the rest of their roster. Mostly by good drafting and developing of players.

If the Bills didn't have so many players making between 3-6 million a year they could easily afford to keep almost every young guy they want to sign to an extension that was worth it. You are talking 10's of millions of dollars that could go to more elite players instead of a bunch of guys like McKelvin, Branch, Smith, Lindell, Jackson, Chandler, and Pears making between 2.8 million and 3.7 million a season. Most of these guys you can easily replace in the draft for 1 million or less a season. All of them contracts add up to 10's of millions of extra cap space a year when it's all said and done.

[better days]

I heard John Clayton talk about the Seahawks cap in regards to Red Bryant. He said a team can only keep 8 players on a team that make more than $6 Million a year.

I think this is what matters when you have a GOOD team.

[BillsFever21]

I heard John Clayton talk about the Seahawks cap in regards to Red Bryant. He said a team can only keep 8 players on a team that make more than $6 Million a year.

I think this is what matters when you have a GOOD team.

And that would probably seem around right too. Especially if you have some very highly paid players that season. The Bills only have one player making over 6 million this season.

That also doesn't mean an "average" of 6 million a year. Good teams can structure their contracts according to the needs of their cap. They have bigger salaries coming off the books while other ones are kicking in, etc.

It's amazing how many players the Bills have in the 2-4 million dollar range give or take. This takes up a big chunk of your salary cap when you can fill them slots for 1-2 million by drafting and developing good players.

When you build most of your team with a bunch of average players then you are going to get a bunch of average results. This is what the Bills have done for a while now and that's why we're always drafting right around the Top 10 every year.

The Bills wasted a great opportunity this year by not extending players a year or two away from free agency that they want to keep around. They could've signed them at a cheaper rate then they could a year or two from now and they also could've taken a bigger cap hit this season so their cap hits in the next several years would be smaller. Instead they stood pat and didn't even keep the guys up for free agency this year. In the end it's just an extra 20 million in Ralph's pocket this year.

[Bangarang]

This thread has no substance.

You cherry picked one vague example and illustrated it as a proven fact.

[BillsFever21]

This thread has no substance.

You cherry picked one vague example and illustrated it as a proven fact.

It doesn't have substance because it's not how the Bills manage their cap and 20 million in cap savings this season. That was the first one I checked and then I looked through other top teams tight against the cap and it's not like the Bills either.

The Packers have 7 players making between 3-6 million a year
The Packers have 5 players making between 3-5 million a year
The Packers have 10 players making between 2-4 million a year
The Packers have 6 players making 6 million or more a year
The Packers have 8 players making 4 million a year or more

This is just one more example.

The Texans have 3 players making between 3-4 million
They have 14 players making 2 million or more a year.

There's more but don't have time to post it now.

[X-Era]

The Bills have 4 players making 4 million or more a year. The Ravens have 9 players making 4 million or more a year.

The Bills 5th highest paid player on the team would be the 10th highest paid player on the Ravens.

The Bills have 1 player making more then 6 million a year. The Ravens have 4 players making more then 6 million a year.

Just more stark contrast on how a good front office manages their salary cap compared to the Bills previous regime.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap-hit/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap-hit/This is more telling.

What they have is a few stars and then lesser players from the draft and vets.

We don't have those stars. Some we have allowed to leave but we also haven't found players like Flacco, Suggs, and Ngata.

Having to pay a franchise QB like Flacco the big money can force a team to have a salary structure like the Ravens do.

[X-Era]

This thread has no substance.

You cherry picked one vague example and illustrated it as a proven fact.No, it has substance.

Teams like the Ravens take an approach of drafting well, not overpaying in FA to fill holes, and having a few stars with big contracts.

The Bills are trying to get there but are also trying to be competitive at the same time. They realize they don't have a proven franchise QB so they spend that money elsewhere to theoretically make a more competitive team.

If Manuel proves he's a playoff or SB QB I can see the Bills paying him the money and then structuring the rest of their salaries more like the Ravens.

That's really the issue. We don't have the stars that require the huge contracts.

BillsFever... do us a favor and show us the Pats... Brady has notoriously given the Pats cap breaks to help the team. I'd like to see if they fit the Ravens model or are more like our model.

[X-Era]

I've got it:

Pats (going by cap figure):

6+ mill- 3, Bills have 1
4+ mill- 5, Bills have 4
3-6 mill- 6, Bills have 9
3-5 mill- 5, Bills have 7
2-4 mill- 11, Bills have 13

Bills:

11 players making 3 million dollars or more.
17 players making 2 million dollars or more.
24 players making 1 million dollars or more

Pats:
9 making 3 mill or more
16 players making 2 mill or more
26 players making 1 mill or more

Salary structure wise they are very close.

You could say the Bills are two proven stars and a generous HOF QB away from being the Pats... Salary structure wise.

I think the big thing is to realize it's more about who you pay and at what positions. And to realize the Bills still need a few stars at key spots to compete. A franchise QB is a glaring difference... The Ravens, Pats, and GB have some of the best and highest paid QB's in the league. We have a journeyman and a rookie.

[BillsFever21]

Even if we take a team like the Seahawks that doesn't have a high priced QB since he is still under a rookie contract

They have 4 players making between 3-4 million a year
They have 8 players making between 3-6 million a year
They have 8 players making between 2-4 million a year
They have 11 players making 4 million a year or more
They have 7 players making 6 million a year or more

Even with a team like the Seahawks that has a cheap young QB under contract and has mostly been built through the draft has a huge difference on how they structure their salary cap.

The biggest issue I see with the Bills salary cap compared to many of these other teams are the huge amount of guys making in the 2-4 million range and lack of guys making 6 million a year or more. They are substituting the more elite players with a bigger collection of average guys that could be had with draft picks for a million a year or less.

It's not just about just having guys with them cap figures it's spending your money to keep or sign young top level players and having cheaper backups in their place. We have way too many backup or rotational players making 2-4 million a year. You need to have your main core of top players that will take up a good chunk of your cap and in return you have more players making 1-2 million a year instead of 2-4 million a year to make up the difference on your salary cap.

These show that the Bills have plenty of cap room to keep their good players. Some act like we need to watch cap dollars when we're 20 million under the cap and have like the 2nd or 3rd most cap room in the league. Mario Williams salary jumps up a lot next year but we have many almost average, useless or older guys making 2.5-4 million a year whose contracts will be expiring soon which will clear up a lot of cap with it. Guys like Pears, Smith, Lindell, and Jackson just to name a few. Just them guys alone are around 11 million in cap room. The roles of them players should be getting paid a combined 6 million a year at the very most and replaced with middle round draft picks or cheap free agents for depth.

[DesertFox24]

This offseason will be the telling sign of our front office.

Woods, Dareus, Spiller are guys we need to resign and at critical positions.

Chandler is a guy I would like to bring back as well, but not a cornerstone so depends what he wants.

I hate to say it but guards and safeties are not that hard to find and good ones can be found in round 2-5. That is why Levitre was let go and probably why Bryd will be gone as well. The bills want to tie up the tackles, Center, QB, WR, RB, CB, LB before they pay big bucks for what they consider luxury positions.

It sucks from the standpoint that we let these guys go but if we had a top 10 qb and were in the playoffs no one would care. However, because we keep losing people point out all of the good players we let go.

[BillsFever21]

This offseason will be the telling sign of our front office.

Woods, Dareus, Spiller are guys we need to resign and at critical positions.

Chandler is a guy I would like to bring back as well, but not a cornerstone so depends what he wants.

I hate to say it but guards and safeties are not that hard to find and good ones can be found in round 2-5. That is why Levitre was let go and probably why Bryd will be gone as well. The bills want to tie up the tackles, Center, QB, WR, RB, CB, LB before they pay big bucks for what they consider luxury positions.

It sucks from the standpoint that we let these guys go but if we had a top 10 qb and were in the playoffs no one would care. However, because we keep losing people point out all of the good players we let go.

Darues still has a ton to prove before you can even think about signing him to a contract extension. He hasn't even played up to his rookie salary let alone a raise and a contract extension up to this point.

Woods has been a good player but if he fails to stay healthy this year then there isn't anyway you can give him a long-term deal with a lot of guaranteed money. He has yet to stay healthy one season in his career. If he can't even stay healthy in his contract year then that definitely isn't a good sign.

Spiller has the chance to turn into an elite RB this year. Unless he does turn into an elite RB then that is one of the positions that is the least important to sign to a long-term deal. Their careers are short and many start losing a step in their late 20's and are usually finished as a feature RB by 30-32 years old. The RB position is also the easiest position to replace in the NFL and rookies can step right in from day one without a problem. If you have a good blocking scheme then many teams have shown you can find RB's in any round(or even as rookie free agents) and plug them in and get great production. If Spiller breaks out this season then we should lock him up instead of waiting another year. If he doesn't turn into an elite back that is a huge part of your offense then you let RB's walk instead of paying them long-term deals.

[BillsFever21]

This offseason will be the telling sign of our front office.

Woods, Dareus, Spiller are guys we need to resign and at critical positions.

Chandler is a guy I would like to bring back as well, but not a cornerstone so depends what he wants.

I hate to say it but guards and safeties are not that hard to find and good ones can be found in round 2-5. That is why Levitre was let go and probably why Bryd will be gone as well. The bills want to tie up the tackles, Center, QB, WR, RB, CB, LB before they pay big bucks for what they consider luxury positions.

It sucks from the standpoint that we let these guys go but if we had a top 10 qb and were in the playoffs no one would care. However, because we keep losing people point out all of the good players we let go.

Also guards and safeties are only a luxury if you already have a good team and are strapped to the cap and need to pay for a high priced QB, LT or other positions. Plus the majority of the time good teams will already have somebody groomed and waiting to take their spot.

The Bills are still trying to build a winning team 13 years and running. When you already have a lack of talent then you need to keep your good young players to build a core around. You need to use your draft picks to upgrade and fill in other positions on the team instead of continuing to tread water and using your draft picks to replace positions you already were set at or to try and replace draft picks that you keep busting out on.

I could've handled losing Levitre if it meant we signed Byrd to a long-term deal. He is one of the best young safeties in the league that a struggling team with a ton of cap space would want to keep. He's just an your everyday safety that you can throw anybody in to match his production. The guy was a playmaker and turnover machine and good in coverage. In the end we spent two draft picks at safety this year hoping to find his replacement and will most likely end up spending another higher round draft pick on one in the next year or two if these guys don't work out. In the end we still won't have one as good.

Even one of the safeties we drafted this year could've went to help improve other positions like guard, LB or depth other areas on the team. That is how you continue to tread water instead of building a team. We have been using our draft picks to replace positions we didn't spend the money to keep or other draft picks that were busts. That's why we continue to stay a 6 win team and haven't been able to take that next step.

[SquishDaFish]

This is a tough subject because Buffalo HAS to OVERPAY compared to the others just to get the players here.

[cookie G]

I hate to say it but guards and safeties are not that hard to find and good ones can be found in round 2-5. That is why Levitre was let go and probably why Bryd will be gone as well. The bills want to tie up the tackles, Center, QB, WR, RB, CB, LB before they pay big bucks for what they consider luxury positions.


Yeah, well, that's not the way it is going to work. Not at guard at least, and probably not center.

Sorry, that's not how this team operates. It would be fine if they used picks 2-3 for replacements, but they won't.

Wood will want about 6 million next year.

They aren't going to pay that. But someone else will, or close to it.

And how are they going to replace him?

The same way they did with Levitre...trash bin scouring.

Hell, all you had to do was look at this year...

they'd already drafted their QB, LB and 2 WR's.

The 4th round comes up...

the 2nd ranked C (who could easily play guard), is sitting there. So is a former Outland Trophy winner who played 3 positions and has 2 NC rings.

Did they take a shot at either?

Nah, they drafted their 455th DB in the last 7 years.

What you will hear is "we really like this guy who we pulled off the practice squad of some team. Yeah, he's 30 and hasn't started a game in his career, but we really like the guy".

And then the trash bin scouring will begin again next summer during TC.

Maybe Whaley will change the way things are done...but he certainly hasn't shown it thusfar.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I hate to say it but guards and safeties are not that hard to find and good ones can be found in round 2-5. That is why Levitre was let go and probably why Bryd will be gone as well.

The fact that these two sentences are back to back is hilarious. Yes, you can find good safeties and guards in the second, that's where we found both Byrd and Levitre. But you have to keep them or you are constantly treading water.

Moreover, the reason people think safeties and guards are so replaceable is because you can cover for them, schematically. If you have a weak safety, give him help. A weak guard? Give him help. But the more weaknesses you have to compensate for, the less you get to go out and dictate play.

[Mike]

This offseason will be the telling sign of our front office.

Woods, Dareus, Spiller are guys we need to resign and at critical positions.

Chandler is a guy I would like to bring back as well, but not a cornerstone so depends what he wants.

I hate to say it but guards and safeties are not that hard to find and good ones can be found in round 2-5.
------ for years our O-Line was a joke and we kept picking players in 2-5 range. Elite players are hard to find & worth the $$$$, which is why GOOD teams pay for them instead of drafting a replacement.

Who do the good teams replace? Average talent like Wood! ----------


That is why Levitre was let go and probably why Bryd will be gone as well. The bills want to tie up the tackles, Center, QB, WR, RB, CB, LB before they pay big bucks for what they consider luxury positions.

It sucks from the standpoint that we let these guys go but if we had a top 10 qb and were in the playoffs no one would care.
------ But WE Don't! We don't have the salary concerns of having a top 10 QB either.-----

However, because we keep losing people point out all of the good players we let go.
------- it's part of the reason why the Bills lose. They just have been awful with elite players in every way possible: attracting them, retaining them, paying them, surrounding them with talent & great coaching, wining, and Paying then, etc... --------




1) The NFL is changing, in today's game S and G are worth the $$$ (otherwise no one would draft then in the 1st round much less the top 10). Finding Elite talent in any position is very difficult!

2) They didn't have to Pay the BIG bucks! If they extended Levitre before his contract expired or done the same with Byrd, we would have gotten both players at a better price. (Lower than FA)

3) Wood: he is a slightly above average injury prone player, precisely what the Bills like to overpay for.

4) Dareus: To date he has not played up to his billing! If this continues and he remains slightly above average player I fully expect the Bills to resign and overpay him. If he becomes elite, and wants elite $$$, most homers and the Bills will show him the front door. Just a gut feeling, lets see what happens.

5) Spiller: he still has 3 years left on his contract, thus is a non issue at this point.

[The last buffalo fan]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/219658-Players-not-wanting-to-be-in-Buffalo

[feldspar]

I've got it:

Pats (going by cap figure):

6+ mill- 3, Bills have 1
4+ mill- 5, Bills have 4
3-6 mill- 6, Bills have 9
3-5 mill- 5, Bills have 7
2-4 mill- 11, Bills have 13

Bills:

11 players making 3 million dollars or more.
17 players making 2 million dollars or more.
24 players making 1 million dollars or more

Pats:
9 making 3 mill or more
16 players making 2 mill or more
26 players making 1 mill or more

Salary structure wise they are very close.

You could say the Bills are two proven stars and a generous HOF QB away from being the Pats... Salary structure wise.

I think the big thing is to realize it's more about who you pay and at what positions. And to realize the Bills still need a few stars at key spots to compete. A franchise QB is a glaring difference... The Ravens, Pats, and GB have some of the best and highest paid QB's in the league. We have a journeyman and a rookie.

I was going to go there, exactly...with the Patriots. But I actually have other things to do and got sidetracked. LOL. And don't forget that Jairus Byrd is currently left out of all this, which will make things closer at the top of the arbitrarily formed "6 million plus" and "4 million plus" categories when and if he signs his franchise tender.

Right...if you look at salary structure and how many players see what money, the only real difference is that the Patriots have Tom Brady. That's about it.

There is no formula to it. Go through every team with this cockamamie whatever-it-is. The Ravens may even be a bad example right now because they had to cut bait with a lot of their good-to-great players for cap purposes all at once...it remains to be seen how they cope with that.

Gotta look at WHO is making that money...like Fitz and Anderson last year. What's that, $18 million right there last year at least? I forget. Lots of money paid out to those two last year.

[psubills62]

First off, I'm a little uncertain about your numbers. You say that the Ravens have 7 players making 3m or more, but then you say they have 9 players making 4m or more per year. I don't think that's possible. If there are 9 players making 4m or more, you have to have at least 9 players making 3m or more.

I get the gist, though, and I think the fundamental problem is poor drafting. If you draft well, then you're able to identify and (hopefully) re-sign about 8-10 core players. Not only that, but if you draft well, you can surround that core of players with low-paid draftees, not FA's in the 3-6m range.

(Note: you may have said that, but I only skimmed this thread, my apologies if this has already been said).

[BillsFever21]

Yeah the 3 million figure was a typo. They don't have anyone in the 3-4 million dollar range. They have 9 players making 4 million or more though.

That was the gist of the thread and showed it with many other teams. It was to show how the Bills are structuring their cap compared to other good teams and the huge amount of guys they have making 2-4 million and especially 3-4 million a year. Instead of keeping a core of good players they keep re-signing average current players or bring in other average FA's for 3 million a year or so.

It was also to show that they have plenty of cap room to sign the players they need to. We have so many average guys making a few million a year when many other teams are paying them type of players 2 million a year or less. That adds up to a ton of money when you are factoring in multiple players.

Depth isn't really much of a problem on our team. We have plenty of depth players. The problem is them depth level players are starting on our team for the most part when they would be backups on most teams. What's worse is we're paying many of these guys 2-4 million a year when their talent level could be had in the draft as rookies for 1-2 million at the most. We have been doing it for years now. Between bad coaches and average starters we continue to stay an average team.