Please stop the No Huddle/Blitz showboating

[stuckincincy]

:shout: As mentioned by coach Frazier of MIN, and elsewhere here, you lose some of the necessary talent evaluation prior to final cuts.

BUF has been flagged 20 times in their 2 games...7 (!) offensive holds, 2 defensive neutral zones, 3 defensive off sides. A rapid pace, lots of blitzing, is a double-edged sword.

It's fine to run blitzes and the no huddle, practice it, but this steady diet is dumb - or an attempt to gin up the juices of the local fans :perplex:

If you plan to blitz 60, 70% of the time, you will get burned - be it a series of pitch outs and quick hitches, draws, floater to a crossing TE, or quick drop-back deep stuff. etc.

If you plan to constantly go no huddle, you will find defenders smacking your receivers in the 5 yard zone, and deciding that your QB is worth smacking hard and suffering the personal foul. Yes - you fatigue a defense, but you also up the probabilities for your OL to grab and your skill players to miss the called play. Your offensive players also physically (and mentally) react to a fast pace.

[justasportsfan]

maybe we should bring Wanny and his D back and call Jauron for his offensive philosophy. :ill:

[Pinkerton Security]

Uh showboating? Did you not realize we were going to be a blitz-happy team? We hired the Jets and Ravens former D-coordinators...what did you expect?

[BLeonard]

As a head coach, Leslie Frazier has a worse winning percentage than both Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey... I don't think I'd take much of his advice, if I wanted to remain an NFL Head Coach for long.

-Bill

[mayotm]

What a load of crap.

[stuckincincy]

maybe we should bring Wanny and his D back and call Jauron for his offensive philosophy. :ill:

No, of course not.

Swinging the pendulum fully the other way - and holding it there - is nuts.

I'm waiting to see if Marrone &Co. keep it up against WAS. If they do, I lean toward concluding that they feel that gimmicks are the best bet to ring their cash register.

[ServoBillieves]

Yes. Let's not bring back the no huddle and let's not blitz so much. That would be a great coaches philosophy. Oh wait, that's not our coaches philosophy. So let's ***** about it and bring in a coach who doesn't blitz often and has a basic huddle system. But then, when we don't blitz so much and give the QB time, and our offense is 3 and out because the opponents defense has time to rest and make correct substitutions, let's bring in a coach with more blitz packages and an offense that's willing to go to an up tempo. When that fails, let's ease it up a bit and go back to a...

[Skooby]

Lets go break to bend but don't break, LOL.

[better days]

Stuck in Cincy doesn't want the Bills to blitz because he thinks Manny Lawson SUCKS.

[Pinkerton Security]

Stuck in Cincy doesn't want the Bills to blitz because he thinks Manny Lawson SUCKS.

He may suck, but that wont stop Pettine from blitzing.

[OLDSRIP]

:shout: As mentioned by coach Frazier of MIN, and elsewhere here, you lose some of the necessary talent evaluation prior to final cuts.

BUF has been flagged 20 times in their 2 games...7 (!) offensive holds, 2 defensive neutral zones, 3 defensive off sides. A rapid pace, lots of blitzing, is a double-edged sword.

It's fine to run blitzes and the no huddle, practice it, but this steady diet is dumb - or an attempt to gin up the juices of the local fans :perplex:

If you plan to blitz 60, 70% of the time, you will get burned - be it a series of pitch outs and quick hitches, draws, floater to a crossing TE, or quick drop-back deep stuff. etc.

If you plan to constantly go no huddle, you will find defenders smacking your receivers in the 5 yard zone, and deciding that your QB is worth smacking hard and suffering the personal foul. Yes - you fatigue a defense, but you also up the probabilities for your OL to grab and your skill players to miss the called play. Your offensive players also physically (and mentally) react to a fast pace.

Ok coach. Good to know ahead of time that the Bills system is doomed. Maybe you should quit now and go pull for the Vikings. I am going to stick around here awhile. It looks like a fun season ahead to me

[justasportsfan]

No, of course not.

Swinging the pendulum fully the other way - and holding it there - is nuts.

I'm waiting to see if Marrone &Co. keep it up against WAS. If they do, I lean toward concluding that they feel that gimmicks are the best bet to ring their cash register.Were Jim Kelly and co. running gimmicks? You think Peyton Manning is running gimmicks?

Brady and the pats ran an up tempo offense last year, you think that was gimmick?

you try and run whatever it is you hope to run on game day and see which players can perform. Those who can't get cut.

[better days]

He may suck, but that wont stop Pettine from blitzing.

well, Lawson sure did not suck in the two games he has played as a Bill & I expect him to only get better the better he knows the system.

[stuckincincy]

Yes. Let's not bring back the no huddle and let's not blitz so much. That would be a great coaches philosophy. Oh wait, that's not our coaches philosophy. So let's ***** about it and bring in a coach who doesn't blitz often and has a basic huddle system. But then, when we don't blitz so much and give the QB time, and our offense is 3 and out because the opponents defense has time to rest and make correct substitutions, let's bring in a coach with more blitz packages and an offense that's willing to go to an up tempo. When that fails, let's ease it up a bit and go back to a...


Nicely put.

There's little doubt - sadly - that the Bills' organization seems to hold the lead as the NFL's poster child for *****zophrenic behavior.

[stuckincincy]

Were Jim Kelly and co. running gimmicks? You think Peyton Manning is running gimmicks?

Brady and the pats ran an up tempo offense last year, you think that was gimmick?

you try and run whatever it is you hope to run on game day and see which players can perform. Those who can't get cut.


Brady & Co. did - Kolb and Manuel aren't Brady.

Justa - it's been 13 years. G_d knows how many coaches and coaching staffs.

I'd be happy to see a draft of 3 OLs and 4 LBs and a fresh start.

[mayotm]

Brady & Co. did - Kolb and Manuel aren't Brady.

Justa - it's been 13 years. G_d knows how many coaches and coaching staffs.

I'd be happy to see a draft of 3 OLs and 4 LBs and a fresh start.Is there somebody here comparing Kolb or Manuel to Brady? If so, I haven't seen that. What does this year's coaching staff have to do with the past 13 years?

[justasportsfan]

Brady & Co. did - Kolb and Manuel aren't Brady. . Brady was not Brady when he was drafted. He was a 6th round draft pick for crying out loud.


Justa - it's been 13 years. G_d knows how many coaches and coaching staffs.
And?? Should we stick with what has proven to fail? Should we stick with playing not to lose or try to be aggressive on both sides of the ball for a change? I'll go for the latter.


I'd be happy to see a draft of 3 OLs and 4 LBs and a fresh start. Look at your last statement before this. The reason why we failed that last 13 years is because we didn't draft a franchise qb. The PAts wouldn't be the PAts without Brady. There's Peyton Manning , there's JOe Flacco,etcetc.

We drafted Glenn, Wood, Levitre and it got us no where because we didn't have a franchise qb.

[stuckincincy]

Is there somebody here comparing Kolb or Manuel to Brady? If so, I haven't seen that. What does this year's coaching staff have to do with the past 13 years?

Thud.

[mayotm]

Thud.
Piss off.

[justasportsfan]

I doubt stuckincincy though Brady was a future HOFmer when he get drafted.

[stuckincincy]

I doubt stuckincincy though Brady was a future HOFer when he get drafted.

I can't say I even noticed when Brady was drafted. But how many more thought Losman was one, was when he was drafted?


The Bills are flat out wrong to chew up so many evaluation opportunities loading up on techniques that are available throughout the regular season. I've said yes, nice to practice them but it's over the top.

There's always been the crowd that chirps about not showing your hand during the preseason and are rewarded by a podunk record. Well, so far, the team is dropping their pants and showing all. They are showing a fad strategy, working on same, and evidently wish to go into the regular season with it.

I presented what I thought was a reasonable analysis of their PS play to date. I hoped to spark debate, have my ideas discussed and perhaps refuted by considered opinion. Which is good.


Alas - the usual happens - snot balls flung. It's worthless here, to discuss football strategy. It really is.

[DraftBoy]

:shout: As mentioned by coach Frazier of MIN, and elsewhere here, you lose some of the necessary talent evaluation prior to final cuts.

BUF has been flagged 20 times in their 2 games...7 (!) offensive holds, 2 defensive neutral zones, 3 defensive off sides. A rapid pace, lots of blitzing, is a double-edged sword.

It's fine to run blitzes and the no huddle, practice it, but this steady diet is dumb - or an attempt to gin up the juices of the local fans :perplex:

If you plan to blitz 60, 70% of the time, you will get burned - be it a series of pitch outs and quick hitches, draws, floater to a crossing TE, or quick drop-back deep stuff. etc.

If you plan to constantly go no huddle, you will find defenders smacking your receivers in the 5 yard zone, and deciding that your QB is worth smacking hard and suffering the personal foul. Yes - you fatigue a defense, but you also up the probabilities for your OL to grab and your skill players to miss the called play. Your offensive players also physically (and mentally) react to a fast pace.

Going to be tough to run hitches, slants, pitch outs and floaters with the defense in man coverage with some bump.

[Pinkerton Security]

I can't say I even noticed when Brady was drafted. But how many more thought Losman was one, was when he was drafted?


The Bills are flat out wrong to chew up so many evaluation opportunities loading up on techniques that are available throughout the regular season. I've said yes, nice to practice them but it's over the top.

There's always been the crowd that chirps about not showing your hand during the preseason and are rewarded by a podunk record. Well, so far, the team is dropping their pants and showing all. They are showing a fad strategy, working on same, and evidently wish to go into the regular season with it.

I presented what I thought was a reasonable analysis of their PS play to date. I hoped to spark debate, have my ideas discussed and perhaps refuted by considered opinion. Which is good.


Alas - the usual happens - snot balls flung. It's worthless here, to discuss football strategy. It really is.

Yet you've ignored the posts where people criticize your post for good reasons, namely - APPARENTLY YOU DONT KNOW FOOTBALL STRATEGY! If you did, you would realize that Mike Pettine isnt exactly going to back off of blitzes, especially in the preseason, in his first year with a new group of guys, when he wants to see which guys excel in his system at specific spots. Yes, some people are just attacking you in general, but your post makes no sense. The only thing worthless is your own post, so get over it. If you post stupid stuff, you're gonna get slammed, so you deserve it.

[mayotm]

I can't say I even noticed when Brady was drafted. But how many more thought Losman was one, was when he was drafted?


The Bills are flat out wrong to chew up so many evaluation opportunities loading up on techniques that are available throughout the regular season. I've said yes, nice to practice them but it's over the top.

There's always been the crowd that chirps about not showing your hand during the preseason and are rewarded by a podunk record. Well, so far, the team is dropping their pants and showing all. They are showing a fad strategy, working on same, and evidently wish to go into the regular season with it.

I presented what I thought was a reasonable analysis of their PS play to date. I hoped to spark debate, have my ideas discussed and perhaps refuted by considered opinion. Which is good.


Alas - the usual happens - snot balls flung. It's worthless here, to discuss football strategy. It really is.You definitely need to find a crowd that can appreciate your superior intellect.

[better days]

I can't say I even noticed when Brady was drafted. But how many more thought Losman was one, was when he was drafted?


The Bills are flat out wrong to chew up so many evaluation opportunities loading up on techniques that are available throughout the regular season. I've said yes, nice to practice them but it's over the top.

There's always been the crowd that chirps about not showing your hand during the preseason and are rewarded by a podunk record. Well, so far, the team is dropping their pants and showing all. They are showing a fad strategy, working on same, and evidently wish to go into the regular season with it.

I presented what I thought was a reasonable analysis of their PS play to date. I hoped to spark debate, have my ideas discussed and perhaps refuted by considered opinion. Which is good.


Alas - the usual happens - snot balls flung. It's worthless here, to discuss football strategy. It really is.

I think the vast majority of this board has had more than enough of the strategy you are advocating for them.

It is what the Bills have done the last 13 years.

Enough is enough.

Time for a change is long overdue.

And you may think the Bills are showing all, but most likely they haven't scratched the surface yet.

[stuckincincy]

Yet you've ignored the posts where people criticize your post for good reasons, namely - APPARENTLY YOU DONT KNOW FOOTBALL STRATEGY! If you did, you would realize that Mike Pettine isnt exactly going to back off of blitzes, especially in the preseason when he wants to see which guys excel in his system at specific spots. Yes, some people are just attacking you in general, but your post makes no sense. The only thing worthless is your own post, so get over it. If you post stupid stuff, you're gonna get slammed, so you deserve it.

Self-named Onan (look it up) - discuss my points about penalties, fatigue, other clubs' responses, etc. Save your childish invectives for whatever else.

[stuckincincy]

You definitely need to find a crowd that can appreciate your superior intellect.

Care to predict this years' WL under this current Bailey & Barnum pre-season play calling? No dodging, please. Give a prediction.

[Pinkerton Security]

Self-named Onan (look it up) - discuss my points about penalties, fatigue, other clubs' responses, etc. Save your childish invectives for whatever else.

hahah I love how you act like you're smarter than everyone else by using the thesaurus tool on your web browser, but rather than wasting my time and everyone elses on a moot point, I'll decline to comment. The Bills are going to be a blitzing team, like it or not. They likely wont blitz as much in the regular season as they are right now, but my "invectives" are actually spot on, especially if you consider blitzing equal to showboating.

[mayotm]

Care to predict this years' WL under this current Bailey & Barnum pre-season play calling? No dodging, please. Give a prediction.I have no idea what their record will be. I predict that they will be better towards the end of the season. Furthermore, I predict you will continue to bore the BillsZone with stories about the Bengals that nobody cares about.

[justasportsfan]

I can't say I even noticed when Brady was drafted. But how many more thought Losman was one, was when he was drafted?


The Bills are flat out wrong to chew up so many evaluation opportunities loading up on techniques that are available throughout the regular season. I've said yes, nice to practice them but it's over the top.

There's always been the crowd that chirps about not showing your hand during the preseason and are rewarded by a podunk record. Well, so far, the team is dropping their pants and showing all. They are showing a fad strategy, working on same, and evidently wish to go into the regular season with it.

I presented what I thought was a reasonable analysis of their PS play to date. I hoped to spark debate, have my ideas discussed and perhaps refuted by considered opinion. Which is good.


Alas - the usual happens - snot balls flung. It's worthless here, to discuss football strategy. It really is.

I don't care how many times it takes. We have to keep searching until we hit a franchise qb.


If it's a PS debate you want, you have to let your players play a scheme you want to be able to evaluate who fits that scheme during camp and preseason . Who says that the bills are showing everything in preseason? You?

Just because the bills are blitzing a lot doesn't mean they will be blitzing every every down but they have to keep blitzing to figure out who can and iron out mental mistakes. I'd rather they figure out who and what during preseason instead of regular season.

[stuckincincy]

You definitely need to find a crowd that can appreciate your superior intellect.

I definitely need a crowd - or a poster - that adds dialogue to the original, football related, post, instead of one that is simply being snide. You disappoint me.

[mayotm]

I definitely need a crowd - or a poster - that adds dialogue to the original, football related, post, instead of one that is simply being snide. You disappoint me.That's a shame. I was very much looking for your approval.

[Pinkerton Security]

I definitely need a crowd - or a poster - that adds dialogue to the original, football related, post, instead of one that is simply being snide. You disappoint me.

Heres some dialogue - Mike Pettine blitzes like crazy.

[stuckincincy]

I don't care how many times it takes. We have to keep searching until we hit a franchise qb.


If it's a PS debate you want, you have to let your players play a scheme you want to be able to evaluate who fits that scheme during camp and preseason . Who says that the bills are showing everything in preseason? You?

Yes. Me.

Pax.

[justasportsfan]

Yes. Me.



/debate

[SquishDaFish]

Wow I didnt think the crap posting could get worse. Holy crap what a garbage ass post/thread

[stuckincincy]

Wow I didnt think the crap posting could get worse. Holy crap what a garbage ass post/thread

crap, crap, garbage, ass.

Nice vocabulary...

[stuckincincy]

Heres some dialogue - Mike Pettine blitzes like crazy.

Indeed. Think it will work out?

[stuckincincy]

That's a shame. I was very much looking for your approval.

All you need is your bathroom mirror. Preen away.

[Beebe's Kid]

Maybe they're practicing the blitz so others will have to prepare for it and respect it. Maybe they are practicing the no huddle because they need to improve, or there is actually a plan to go to a more up tempo offense. Maybe there is a method to the madness that you kind of seem alone in being so adamantly opposed to. Just maybe...

Or else it is just a way to ring cash registers, which makes no sense if you are maintaining that blitzing and an up tempo offense will lead to the Bills getting destroyed. If they don't win game, cash registers won't ring, as they'll be unemployed.

[HAMMER]

Cincy is a crappy town, no wonder this guy always has sand in his va jay jay.

[jpdex12]

Opinions are fine but this is a terrible thread. This website should have Wonderlic scores under avatars to weed out those that post garbage...

[stuckincincy]

Maybe they're practicing the blitz so others will have to prepare for it and respect it. Maybe they are practicing the no huddle because they need to improve, or there is actually a plan to go to a more up tempo offense. Maybe there is a method to the madness that you kind of seem alone in being so adamantly opposed to. Just maybe...

Or else it is just a way to ring cash registers, which makes no sense if you are maintaining that blitzing and an up tempo offense will lead to the Bills getting destroyed. If they don't win game, cash registers won't ring, as they'll be unemployed.

I think they are doing it to make the registers ring. It makes sense - if you play wow-wee ball the stands fill up to see the flash. If you don't make the playoffs, so what?

Look at the OL foot placement with this hurry-up. They are pointing. They can't help it -have to hop out to the LOS and set. God luck for BUF QBs to survive without injury.

[stuckincincy]

Cincy is a crappy town, no wonder this guy always has sand in his va jay jay.

Cin is the same as Buf - Dem controlled - of course it's a crappy town...duh.

[Meathead]

regarding preseason, i dont think the no-huddle matters as much as blitzing. the defenses just have to prep a little faster between plays which they should be able to do in preseason. but blitzing the scrubs is just too disruptive to the evaluation process. it takes a ton of planning to handle blitzes when really the defense only has to send guys so its not entirely fair for a practice setting. its sort of a due respect thing between teams trying to get evaluation work done in the practice games

now i know this will be a blitzing defense so they need to do some of it now. but i do honestly feel theres still a little too much blitzing for preseason. pettine will be hearing it from other dcs im sure so i suspect he will dial it back a little going forward

[kishoph]

I think it's better to practice what you plan on doing in game situations (of course not everything) in the preseason than to not practice it and then try to make it work when the season gets here, why try to hide it so much, after the 1st game teams are going to have film on it anyway, so you end up sacrificing the practice you can get in live action to keep it "secret" for 1 game. This idea of "don't show them anything" is an old school idea that teams have been afraid to change. Bravo to the Bills for not being afraid to break from 80's football.

[ParanoidAndroid]

So blitzing is a secret? Shhh... don't show the blitz in pre-season because other teams will know what blitzing is. Your welcome for the practice against the blitz, coach Frazier. Oh, I'm sorry. You wanted free offensive palys so you can see your guys? Hold a no pads practice.

[better days]

regarding preseason, i dont think the no-huddle matters as much as blitzing. the defenses just have to prep a little faster between plays which they should be able to do in preseason. but blitzing the scrubs is just too disruptive to the evaluation process. it takes a ton of planning to handle blitzes when really the defense only has to send guys so its not entirely fair for a practice setting. its sort of a due respect thing between teams trying to get evaluation work done in the practice games

now i know this will be a blitzing defense so they need to do some of it now. but i do honestly feel theres still a little too much blitzing for preseason. pettine will be hearing it from other dcs im sure so i suspect he will dial it back a little going forward

Let them *****. I love being a fan of the team others ***** about . MUCH better than being a fan of a team others laugh about.

[TigerJ]

The defensive system Buffalo is running is part of the Baltimore tree that now includes Baltimore, the Jets, Indianapolis, and Buffalo. New Orleans isn't going to be all that different either. It's not that blitzing becomes predictable if you do it too much, it's blitzing the same person that becomes predictable. Pettine's defense places a premium on position versatility so that linebackers are as comfortable dropping back in short area coverage as they are blitzing. You're not necessarily trying to overcome the defense with overwhelming numbers, you're binging a modest number of pass rushers from places the QB and offensive line do not expect. That way you don't necessarily give up the big plays you might if you brought heat in more predictable ways. I said in another thread a few days ago, Buffalo can't play a vanilla defense in the preseason because they do not have a vanilla defense like they did last season, like the Tampa 2 that Leslie Frazier prefers. While the penalties are worrisome, and Marrone needs to rein them in, I don't equate the penalty issue with the schemes Hackett and Pettine are running.

[elltrain22]

:shout: As mentioned by coach Frazier of MIN, and elsewhere here, you lose some of the necessary talent evaluation prior to final cuts.

BUF has been flagged 20 times in their 2 games...7 (!) offensive holds, 2 defensive neutral zones, 3 defensive off sides. A rapid pace, lots of blitzing, is a double-edged sword.

It's fine to run blitzes and the no huddle, practice it, but this steady diet is dumb - or an attempt to gin up the juices of the local fans :perplex:

If you plan to blitz 60, 70% of the time, you will get burned - be it a series of pitch outs and quick hitches, draws, floater to a crossing TE, or quick drop-back deep stuff. etc.

If you plan to constantly go no huddle, you will find defenders smacking your receivers in the 5 yard zone, and deciding that your QB is worth smacking hard and suffering the personal foul. Yes - you fatigue a defense, but you also up the probabilities for your OL to grab and your skill players to miss the called play. Your offensive players also physically (and mentally) react to a fast pace.

This post makes me think either you haven't watched us play this year, or you don't know football. I'm not saying we're going to the super bowl or anything, and to honest, we are still not talented enough to be considered a playoff team.

What your saying, which I guess to you, is a recipe for success, is to slow our tempo down on offense, and to not attack nearly as much on defense. I'm sorry, but are you freakin nuts?? When EJ is running the show, he gases the opposing defense up with their fast pace. Defenses can't substitute as readily, and defensive coordinators have less time to counter our success, b/c of our tempo. In every sport, if you dictate tempo, you usually are successful.

Then you say, to blitz less?? What?? Did you not watch our pathetic defense last year. We sat back, relied on our front 4 to pressure the qb, which eventually made them tired. Teams that had at least average offensive talent ate us up, both with the run and the pass. It was easy for them, b/c we made it easy for them. This year, we're making them earn their yards. When you pressure your opponent, sooner or later, they make mistakes, and tires your o-line out. Pretty much every successful defense in the NFL is successful, b/c they get to the qb, and always have an attack mentality. Not only do we attack now, but we do it creatively with zone blitzes, cb blitzes, safety blitzes, etc, etc.

I cannot see how you want us to stop what is probably a big reason why this year, we might be a much more competitive team.

[SquishDaFish]

crap, crap, garbage, ass.

Nice vocabulary...

Nice comeback clown

[SpikedLemonade]

This Saturday should be a true test if our blitzing D and no huddle O are effective or not.

Neither of the two teams will have their #1 QBs however they will play their lines for a half.

[stuckincincy]

Sorry, Spill - I don't have to use an on-line thesaurus - I'm from a generation that learned things, as opposed to today's "Kollege of Keystroke Knowledge." :mybills:

[stuckincincy]

This post makes me think either you haven't watched us play this year, or you don't know football. I'm not saying we're going to the super bowl or anything, and to honest, we are still not talented enough to be considered a playoff team.

What your saying, which I guess to you, is a recipe for success, is to slow our tempo down on offense, and to not attack nearly as much on defense. I'm sorry, but are you freakin nuts?? When EJ is running the show, he gases the opposing defense up with their fast pace. Defenses can't substitute as readily, and defensive coordinators have less time to counter our success, b/c of our tempo. In every sport, if you dictate tempo, you usually are successful.

Then you say, to blitz less?? What?? Did you not watch our pathetic defense last year. We sat back, relied on our front 4 to pressure the qb, which eventually made them tired. Teams that had at least average offensive talent ate us up, both with the run and the pass. It was easy for them, b/c we made it easy for them. This year, we're making them earn their yards. When you pressure your opponent, sooner or later, they make mistakes, and tires your o-line out. Pretty much every successful defense in the NFL is successful, b/c they get to the qb, and always have an attack mentality. Not only do we attack now, but we do it creatively with zone blitzes, cb blitzes, safety blitzes, etc, etc.

I cannot see how you want us to stop what is probably a big reason why this year, we might be a much more competitive team.

After wandering in the Wannstadt desert, it is fine to see some blitzing. I'm aware of the features of the no-huddle attack. I'm aware that in the NFL's the seemingly inexorable drive to turn their product into arena football or some such, pressure is a must.

I've stated before, that I see clubs trying to generate more interior DL pressure, to harry the QB and still maintain some level of coverage on today's "can't touch 'em" receivers.

I maintain that they have been excessive in their blitzing, and no-huddle. And that that takes something away from fundamental evaluation of players.

Football is a four act play that's been running for over a hundred years. We will see if this variation on the theme pans out...

[better days]

After wandering in the Wannstadt desert, it is fine to see some blitzing. I'm aware of the features of the no-huddle attack. I'm aware that in the NFL's the seemingly inexorable drive to turn their product into arena football or some such, pressure is a must.

I've stated before, that I see clubs trying to generate more interior DL pressure, to harry the QB and still maintain some level of coverage on today's "can't touch 'em" receivers.

I maintain that they have been excessive in their blitzing, and no-huddle. And that that takes something away from fundamental evaluation of players.

Football is a four act play that's been running for over a hundred years. We will see if this variation on the theme pans out...

Since the Bills will be a blitzing team, the blitzing done in preseason will HELP evaluate players, not hinder it. And if you think the blitzing is excessive now, wait until the REAL Season starts.

And yes they may get burned for a big play from time to time because of the blitz, but they will also make some big plays themselves by blitzing.

[Night Train]

I saw increased pressure applied in both pre-season games by the new D.

I saw an O that looks like they can move the chains and score more points.

I saw a ST coverage unit that looked much better.

It gives me hope. How it can give others angina is beyond me.

It's year one of the new regime, meaning mistakes and bumps will happen. As long as an upside is evident, you keep executing your plan.

Marrone hasn't coached a real game yet but this offers far more hope than the last 13 years. If you are stuck in the GB Packers 1960 playbook, too bad.

The game evolves.

[stuckincincy]

I saw increased pressure applied in both pre-season games by the new D.

I saw an O that looks like they can move the chains and score more points.

I saw a ST coverage unit that looked much better.

It gives me hope. How it can give others angina is beyond me.

It's year one of the new regime, meaning mistakes and bumps will happen. As long as an upside is evident, you keep executing your plan.

Marrone hasn't coached a real game yet but this offers far more hope than the last 13 years. If you are stuck in the GB Packers 1960 playbook, too bad.

The game evolves.

I offer alternative comments, and get snotty text in return...

Commenting on heavy blitzing and no huddle does not equate to studying the 1960 GB playbook. If you're so narrow-minded to think that, too bad. I have noted - along with millions of folks across the nation - about how the NFL has evolved, has changed its rules and emphasis.

I am not suffering from angina. If the NFL folds tomorrow, my only worry would be the (further) $ extracted out of my pocket, as the wondering about what to do with taxpayer-built and funded stadiums commences.

I do hope that somehow, that approach works. I doubt it. Marrone offering hope - easy shoes to fill. That guy who hasn't coached a real game so far. Giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt is difficult.

If it falls on his face, I won't be one to resurrect this thread for a "told you so" dig. If it works, get in line..there will be plenty.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Cincy, are you against the Bills running a no huddle/blitz scheme just because it's preseason, or are you against it altogether? Your posts seem to go back and forth on it.

[better days]

I offer alternative comments, and get snotty text in return...

Commenting on heavy blitzing and no huddle does not equate to studying the 1960 GB playbook. If you're so narrow-minded to think that, too bad. I have noted - along with millions of folks across the nation - about how the NFL has evolved, has changed its rules and emphasis.

I am not suffering from angina. If the NFL folds tomorrow, my only worry would be the (further) $ extracted out of my pocket, as the wondering about what to do with taxpayer-built and funded stadiums commences.

I do hope that somehow, that approach works. I doubt it. Marrone offering hope - easy shoes to fill. That guy who hasn't coached a real game so far. Giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt is difficult.

If it falls on his face, I won't be one to resurrect this thread for a "told you so" dig. If it works, get in line..there will be plenty.

If Marrone falls on his face, I would rather see him do so while doing what he is doing than what has FAILED MISERABLY in the past.

[Pinkerton Security]

Sorry, Spill - I don't have to use an on-line thesaurus - I'm from a generation that learned things, as opposed to today's "Kollege of Keystroke Knowledge." :mybills:

Fair enough, but you act as if you are better than everyone else because you use bigger words than some...if you didnt realize, no one on here cares about your vocabulary and how much you have learned in your apparently numerous years. Apparently you didnt learn that when you're wrong, you're wrong.

Since you're so learned, lets use Occam's Razor to determine which of these 2 are more likely:
- Every single other person on this board doesnt get what you're grasping at
OR
- the concept of this thread itself is wrong

[stuckincincy]

Cincy, are you against the Bills running a no huddle/blitz scheme just because it's preseason, or are you against it altogether? Your posts seem to go back and forth on it.

Sorry if the posts are perceived as back and forth. Not my intent.

I am in favor of judicious use of blitzing and the no huddle. I have no problem with leaning towards it in the regular season.

I am aware that such does serve to mask personnel deficiencies of a weaker club. It can get wins. I am aware that it's a current darling of some college teams - Oregon comes to mind. So the open question is - do you win championships with it?

I feel that enough is enough. No problem tuning it up so to speak, but as much as one would like to say that this is the new wave, I remain unconvinced. BUF is not the only one here - PHI, KC, others are trying such. My beef is that the PS is the time to work on the fundamentals. Tossing that aside disturbs me.

There's no lack of evidence about a new regime trying to spiff things up in the pre-season. No lack of a team drafting rb after rb to pump up the gate.

We all rail about the LB corps. I want them to be practicing long-standing LB duties. Having them blitz so much may make them proficient in that, but when you storm it you better get it or you can be fried, run or pass. Staying home matters.

7 offensive holds in the PS in 2 games. I can't swear that that is excessive. But I do feel that the no huddle affects the OL - you get on one end and pay for it on the other.

I would like to see them tone it down against WAS. Bad luck that RGIII and Cousins don't look to play - BUF loses the opportunity to face a team's #1 and #2.

I also look for some authority from the BUF OL - as in opening up holes as opposed to seeing Spiller bounce.

I also worry about injuries with a steady fast pace diet. Teams with all-out rushes to nail the no huddle qb. Linemen with feet dancing to set them against hopping defenders.

[stuckincincy]

Fair enough, but you act as if you are better than everyone else because you use bigger words than some...if you didnt realize, no one on here cares about your vocabulary and how much you have learned in your apparently numerous years. Apparently you didnt learn that when you're wrong, you're wrong.

Since you're so learned, lets use Occam's Razor to determine which of these 2 are more likely:
- Every single other person on this board doesnt get what you're grasping at
OR
- the concept of this thread itself is wrong

Occam's Razor was that the simplest assumption is likely the right one. Mine, or my grasp, as you say, is simple - use the PS to evaluate talent with respect to known criteria. Yes, you can "tune" up a blitz or a no-huddle. Who knows? BUF might be breaking new ground.

I contend that they are spending too much time on spiff. And that clubs with strong OLs, smart qbs and staff, strong defenses, will be able to sniff things out eventually.

This club lost some OL strength, has their chronic LB problem, a halfway-decent DB corps, the seemingly eternal qb ba-de-ba qb merry-go-round.

After the DB draft flurry, now its the WR draft flurry.

I'd like to see them draft 3 OLs and 3 LBs. Give it a try.

[JohnnyGold]

Pettine worked under Ryan in Baltimore when they had the league's most dominant defense, then was promoted to D coordinator in New York (also under Ryan), and again developed the league's most dominant defense. These are defenses that won--and won big--despite the production they were getting on offense.

Since 2000 (the last time we made the playoffs) the bills have had more than 2 preseason wins just twice--the last time being 10 years ago in 2003. A win against the Redskins or Lions would make this the most successful preseason in over a decade. If we win both games, it will be our most successful preseason since... well, I don't know since when, to be honest.

Also in that stretch, we averaged more than 20 points a preseason game just twice--with a high of 27 ppg in 2011 (the year we started 5-2). We are currently averaging 32 ppg this preseason. In terms of points allowed, there have been 4 preseasons where we allowed fewer points per game than we are right now (18), the lowest of which was 14 points per game in 2005--the preseason after the year we finished 9-7 and had a solid defense.

So what am I getting at? There has been a culture of losing here for a decade and a half. As much as we all hate ESPN, their football "analysis" shows are made up of former players... it somewhat reflects the mindset of the league, or at least the players that make up the league. The Bills are a joke, a laughing stock, irrelevant. There is a black cloud sitting over the franchise that makes people stop and laugh when considering the prospects of picking the Bills to make any noise this season. Now, as much as we've convinced ourselves over the years that "the preseason is meaningless", a funny thing happens when you look at our preseasons for the past 15 years: we havent been very good.

To see us with a chance to win more preseason games than we have in 15 years, to score more points in the preseason than we have in 15 years, and to have a defense look as good as it has in 10 years? I'm just going to enjoy it.

[Night Train]

I am not suffering from angina. If the NFL folds tomorrow, my only worry would be the (further) $ extracted out of my pocket, as the wondering about what to do with taxpayer-built and funded stadiums commences.



Now it's about taxpayers funding stadiums. You are all over the place. You don't even reside in erie county and pay the taxes like I do. Focus on your gripes.

The team shows long term promise and the change in philosophy is refreshing.

In another thread, you graded the coaching staff an F after 2 pre-season games, so welcome to wearing the dear antlers with the bullseye tee shirt.

[justasportsfan]

Steelers have been known to play hard and blitz even in preseason. They have been known to have top D every year.The Pats play hard even in preseason. They don't stop playing hard when they are up by 30.

I guess some person just misses Dick Jauron.

[JohnnyGold]

Pettine worked under Ryan in Baltimore when they had the league's most dominant defense, then was promoted to D coordinator in New York (also under Ryan), and again developed the league's most dominant defense. These are defenses that won--and won big--despite the production they were getting on offense.

Since 2000 (the last time we made the playoffs) the bills have had more than 2 preseason wins just twice--the last time being 10 years ago in 2003. A win against the Redskins or Lions would make this the most successful preseason in over a decade. If we win both games, it will be our most successful preseason since... well, I don't know since when, to be honest.

Also in that stretch, we averaged more than 20 points a preseason game just twice--with a high of 27 ppg in 2011 (the year we started 5-2). We are currently averaging 32 ppg this preseason. In terms of points allowed, there have been 4 preseasons where we allowed fewer points per game than we are right now (18), the lowest of which was 14 points per game in 2005--the preseason after the year we finished 9-7 and had a solid defense.

So what am I getting at? There has been a culture of losing here for a decade and a half. As much as we all hate ESPN, their football "analysis" shows are made up of former players... it somewhat reflects the mindset of the league, or at least the players that make up the league. The Bills are a joke, a laughing stock, irrelevant. There is a black cloud sitting over the franchise that makes people stop and laugh when considering the prospects of picking the Bills to make any noise this season. Now, as much as we've convinced ourselves over the years that "the preseason is meaningless", a funny thing happens when you look at our preseasons for the past 15 years: we havent been very good.

To see us with a chance to win more preseason games than we have in 15 years, to score more points in the preseason than we have in 15 years, and to have a defense look as good as it has in 10 years? I'm just going to enjoy it.


For some reason I can't figure out how to edit my post... So I'll just quote myself. (sorry)

But in the cold light of morning, I think I can refine my words a little bit more---without rambling on, what I'm saying is simply this:

Gailey and Juaron specifically, (but the Bills in general over the last 15 years) did exactly what you're asking for: they used the preseason to hold their cards close to the vest, and rolled out "exotic" schemes in week 1. What happened? Well, in some years it worked: 2011 v. the Chiefs... or, more accurately, 2009 v. the Patriots, where we looked like absolute garbage in the preseason (1-4, 14 ppg) but then came out and almost... ALMOST... shocked the world week 1 in Foxboro. But we didn't shock the world... in fact, its been 2 decades since we've shocked the world. For 20 years, we've done EXACTLY what you are asking for right now... play vanilla in the preseason, and try to "surprise" our opponents in week 1.

Guess what:

Football isn't a game of surprises. It's a game of grown men who have been playing this sport for their entire lives. Grown men who have been coached by grown men to impose their will on other grown men, with the ultimate objective being to win the game. I don't want the coaches to "out think" themselves anymore, I don't want to hear that "winning is hard", I want the Bills to put Brady in a wheel chair. I want Tannehill to look across the line of scrimmage in Buffalo and have a little mud squirt out of his *****ter. I want coaches to complain that we're too physical. I want the Ralph to feel like Rich stadium again. I want the Patriots to start saying its Bills week, instead of us saying its Patriots week. I want players to hope they can land a spot on the Bills, instead of knowing if all else fails, they can sign with the Bills. I want a culture of winning smash mouth football, in the trenches, in the snow, in the Ralph. I want analysts to stop laughing when they talk about us.

In short: I want the Bills to show the league they mean business again. And that happens from winning football games. Preseason, scrimmage, regular season, playoffs, super bowl.

A team that comes out on Saturdays of the preseason and wants to beat the ***** out of the Vikings and win the game in a dominating fashion, is a team that can win the super bowl in the next 3 years.

A team that comes out on Saturdays of the preseason and plays like they're happy to be there, that doesn't look at the scoreboard, that talks to the opposing coaches before the game to make sure it doesnt get too competitive out there, that wants to keep everything theyre going to do under wraps so they can maybe, MAYBE, sneak up and "surprise" the patriots in week 1 is basically saying: we don't have the talent to win, so if we get lucky, we can finish 8-8, but don't get your hopes up.

Ill enjoy watching the former--you keep hoping for the latter.

[better days]

For some reason I can't figure out how to edit my post... So I'll just quote myself. (sorry)

But in the cold light of morning, I think I can refine my words a little bit more---without rambling on, what I'm saying is simply this:

Gailey and Juaron specifically, (but the Bills in general over the last 15 years) did exactly what you're asking for: they used the preseason to hold their cards close to the vest, and rolled out "exotic" schemes in week 1. What happened? Well, in some years it worked: 2011 v. the Chiefs... or, more accurately, 2009 v. the Patriots, where we looked like absolute garbage in the preseason (1-4, 14 ppg) but then came out and almost... ALMOST... shocked the world week 1 in Foxboro. But we didn't shock the world... in fact, its been 2 decades since we've shocked the world. For 20 years, we've done EXACTLY what you are asking for right now... play vanilla in the preseason, and try to "surprise" our opponents in week 1.

Guess what:

Football isn't a game of surprises. It's a game of grown men who have been playing this sport for their entire lives. Grown men who have been coached by grown men to impose their will on other grown men, with the ultimate objective being to win the game. I don't want the coaches to "out think" themselves anymore, I don't want to hear that "winning is hard", I want the Bills to put Brady in a wheel chair. I want Tannehill to look across the line of scrimmage in Buffalo and have a little mud squirt out of his *****ter. I want coaches to complain that we're too physical. I want the Ralph to feel like Rich stadium again. I want the Patriots to start saying its Bills week, instead of us saying its Patriots week. I want players to hope they can land a spot on the Bills, instead of knowing if all else fails, they can sign with the Bills. I want a culture of winning smash mouth football, in the trenches, in the snow, in the Ralph. I want analysts to stop laughing when they talk about us.

In short: I want the Bills to show the league they mean business again. And that happens from winning football games. Preseason, scrimmage, regular season, playoffs, super bowl.

A team that comes out on Saturdays of the preseason and wants to beat the ***** out of the Vikings and win the game in a dominating fashion, is a team that can win the super bowl in the next 3 years.

A team that comes out on Saturdays of the preseason and plays like they're happy to be there, that doesn't look at the scoreboard, that talks to the opposing coaches before the game to make sure it doesnt get too competitive out there, that wants to keep everything theyre going to do under wraps so they can maybe, MAYBE, sneak up and "surprise" the patriots in week 1 is basically saying: we don't have the talent to win, so if we get lucky, we can finish 8-8, but don't get your hopes up.

Ill enjoy watching the former--you keep hoping for the latter.

The mods have instituted a STUPID rule that you can't edit your posts after 10 minutes anymore. Good post.

[trapezeus]

difference thus far in the new regime vs the old.

Old regimes - do the opposite because its in vogue. then find out in preseason it isn't working, tell people it's a hybrid, mid season run what you were always comfortable from the get go.

New regime - marrone and hackett spent time insyracuse learning what uptempo means, and then implemented it and had a great season and winning a bowl game. they have experience doing this and succeeding. Pettine is doing what he's been good at for a while now. These things happen to be in vogue, but it's also something this staff is good at right now.

the initial post reads like an old man wrote it so nervous that the past sucked that doing anything different will also be unacceptable and a failure. Dare to dream, stuckincincy. being paralyzed from fear still will ensure this team keeps sucking.

[Mr. Pink]

What a douche of a thread.

Teams in the NFL do blitz. Teams in the NFL do run up tempo offenses.

It's not showboating. It's called football.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe the defending champions Ravens shouldn't have ran Rice 16 X last night or they might be giving stuff away.

[stuckincincy]

Now it's about taxpayers funding stadiums. You are all over the place. You don't even reside in erie county and pay the taxes like I do. Focus on your gripes.

The team shows long term promise and the change in philosophy is refreshing.

In another thread, you graded the coaching staff an F after 2 pre-season games, so welcome to wearing the dear antlers with the bullseye tee shirt.


:smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea:

Hope and change, eh? By lifting the leg on the conventional - time-tested - proven - evaluation process, trying to polish up a player talent level that doesn't exactly get rave reviews around the league by running a scheme that will has a tough time when the snaps are for real, having their HC more or less act as a barking billy goat?

Right you are. BUF's quick tempo and blitzing are going to teach the league powerhouses a lesson. Wait for it.

[BertSquirtgum]

:shout: As mentioned by coach Frazier of MIN, and elsewhere here, you lose some of the necessary talent evaluation prior to final cuts.

BUF has been flagged 20 times in their 2 games...7 (!) offensive holds, 2 defensive neutral zones, 3 defensive off sides. A rapid pace, lots of blitzing, is a double-edged sword.

It's fine to run blitzes and the no huddle, practice it, but this steady diet is dumb - or an attempt to gin up the juices of the local fans :perplex:

If you plan to blitz 60, 70% of the time, you will get burned - be it a series of pitch outs and quick hitches, draws, floater to a crossing TE, or quick drop-back deep stuff. etc.

If you plan to constantly go no huddle, you will find defenders smacking your receivers in the 5 yard zone, and deciding that your QB is worth smacking hard and suffering the personal foul. Yes - you fatigue a defense, but you also up the probabilities for your OL to grab and your skill players to miss the called play. Your offensive players also physically (and mentally) react to a fast pace.

Why are all of your threads and posts terrible? Maybe you like watching boring idiot football like the jauron and gailey teams but I have thoroughly enjoyed what Marone has been sporting.

[Meathead]

the wheels came off both the no huddle and the blitzing def that first half

god i only wish preseason was meaningless bc we are totally screwed now

[stuckincincy]

the wheels came off both the no huddle and the blitzing def that first half

god i only wish preseason was meaningless bc we are totally screwed now

49 offensive plays. 40 no-huddles. 7 points.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/teamstats/NFL_20130824_BUF@WAS

Waiting for reply from poster Night Train. Who insulted me. Repeatedly. :bike:

[Night Train]

49 offensive plays. 40 no-huddles. 7 points.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/teamstats/NFL_20130824_BUF@WAS

Waiting for reply from poster Night Train. Who insulted me. Repeatedly. :bike:

You are a God among men.

[stuckincincy]

You are a God among men.

No man is our God.

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Said Matthew. Sage words.

Pax.

[stuckincincy]

:handball: