Sources: Byrd, agent trying to orchestrate trade

[feldspar]

Per The Buffalo News...

The objective of Jairus Byrd and his agent is to engineer a trade from the Buffalo Bills by the NFL trade deadline, two league sources told The News.

The negotiating position is hardly a surprise, given the impasse in contract talks between the two sides and the grim demeanor Byrd presented in his initial news conference upon reporting to the team two weeks ago.

Nevertheless, the information – from an executive on another NFL club and another agent who is not employed by Byrd – lends credence to the uncomfortable situation that exists between the Bills and their Pro Bowl safety.

The NFL trade deadline is Oct. 29, after the eighth week of the regular season. Just how uncomfortable Byrd’s relationship with the Bills will get and how much interest Byrd will stimulate on the trade market figure to be persistent issues over the next two months.

A team interested in Byrd would have to want to both give him a big new contract and give the Bills an acceptable offer, surely a draft pick, in return. One factor that might work in Byrd’s favor is injuries. A team that loses a safety early in the year might be more inclined to pitch for Byrd.

...more...

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/sources-byrd-agent-trying-to-orchestrate-trade-20130904

[Buffalo Thriller]

He's hurt and wants a trade, he shoulda just taken the money.

[better days]

If Parker can find a team willing to pay Byrd & give the Bills a first rnd pick then I am fine with a trade.

For anything less than a first, I would be opposed to a trade. If Byrd is the best Safety in the NFL today or even a top 5 safety, then he is worth a first rnd pick & no less than that.

[The Natrix]

Get bent, Byrd.

I'd do it for a 3rd just to get this loser out of here, as long as it's not to the AFC East.

[Crisis]

I love this team. There's nothing like letting the few draft picks they get right go when their rookie deals are up... while we re-sign busts like Leodis.

[Crisis]

I don't even blame him. If I was a player I'd want to get as far from this loser franchise as possible.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

We're in opening week and the excuses for the 5-11 season are already there, the homers are swallowing them whole, and everything's going to plan. The circle is complete.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

He's hurt and wants a trade, he shoulda just taken the money.

hes not hurt man... hes using normal football soreness to get out of town

- - - Updated - - -

just hope we get a 2nd and later rd pick

[Crisis]

hes not hurt man... hes using normal football soreness to get out of town

- - - Updated - - -

just hope we get a 2nd and later rd pick

And whatever scrub we put back there to replace him is the next Ronnie Lott right?

The funny part is that if that would actually happen he'd be gone in 3 years anyways because the organization would low ball him out of town.

[Night Train]

Alex Carringtons' contract is up after this year and guess who his agent is.

[X-Era]

Alex Carringtons' contract is up after this year and guess who his agent is.
Alex Carrington isn't a top 5 DE in this league. He's more like top 30.

[X-Era]

I don't understand the bitterness on this. Byrd is a very good player. But he's one player. There's no control over him wanting to be gone. The Bills franchised the guy which is part of the CBA. He's still getting paid a lot of money this year. He's now got a chronic issue with his foot.

So, a guy with a foot problem, who isn't happy here, thinks he's worth more than he is, and wants to be traded won't accept our offer to pay him 7+ mill per year? OK.

Grant his wish and re-invest the money and the new draft pick or player into the team.

If you're bitter because we have to deal with it at all I'd say players may have Eugene Parker as there agent, and we will have players who want to leave some times. Kind of life in the NFL. I don't see it as all the Bills fault or all Byrd's. But sometimes the two sides just don't agree. It's a player we may lose. It happens. And if we get something in return that's better than nothing.

But we again aren't resigning our good young players... Stevie, Wood, Kyle
But we again aren't willing to pay or even overpay to sign players... Mario
But we are getting worse by this loss... Maybe, you'd have to see what we get in return

[Skooby]

I trust Byrd as far as I can throw Mikey.

[coastal]

This has become a colossal cluster.

[The King]

He plays a game for a living. His ego has cost him millions, his agent has cost him more. At this point I am all set with Byrd. He wants to be paid as the best safety, whatever. He's not leading this team right now and we already have a ton of cash tied up in a player who doesn't want to lead.

He's setting a ridiculous example for the young players on this team, ship him out for fair compensation or let him sit and "heal". But do not cave to Parker.

[Oldbillsfan]

Hes not the best safety in the league. Not even close.

[coastal]

He plays a game for a living. His ego has cost him millions, his agent has cost him more. At this point I am all set with Byrd. He wants to be paid as the best safety, whatever. He's not leading this team right now and we already have a ton of cash tied up in a player who doesn't want to lead.

He's setting a ridiculous example for the young players on this team, ship him out for fair compensation or let him sit and "heal". But do not cave to Parker.
Things shouldn't have gotten to this point, but completely agree.

Byrd has severely weakened his hand here.

[better days]

We're in opening week and the excuses for the 5-11 season are already there, the homers are swallowing them whole, and everything's going to plan. The circle is complete.

You & your crowd were predicting 5 wins or less before any of this crap with Byrd so what is the difference?

[lightningbolt444]

Honestly I get pissed at this organization all the time. They handle some stuff in the worst possible way. The Byrd situation is not one of them I actually applaud the front office to not caving. They offered a fair contract and wont budge if he wants to leave let him. Get something back for him and continue the rebuild. Does it make us worse it sure does but we are no competing this season any way. If you legitimately think Byrd is part of the long term plan and willing to sign here for fair money you keep him. If he is just a year or two holdover let him go and find a replacement maybe that makes us get one more L which is actually better as that equals a higher draft pick.


I ask everyone complaining about this situation how you would feel if the Bills signed him to 9 million + a year only to find out he has and the Bills knew about this injury to his foot. Everyone would be up in arms how we have damaged goods and the Front office botched another one.

I understand we have all suffered through these years. At some point though it has to turn around it may not be this year it may not be next but when the front office does something that actually makes sense we need to recognize that.

[trapezeus]

i always understood byrd's process of wanting more money. he was on a team that dished out a big contract to kelsay...so if you buy that byrd was better than kelsay, you'd think that he'd earn the money.

However, being a bills fan and now seeing that the guy doesn't want to be here, hasn't really been part of the team's process of learning all the new pieces and potentially being a distraction, the bills have two options and i'm fine with either.

1. conduct detrimental to the team - if it means he isn't being cut, he simply is being benched and doesn't get the money this year on his franchise tag. And in the background you say, "we'll find you a trade, but it's going to have to be awesome for us, and it's going to be in the NFC."

2. Bring in michael peca - "hi jarius, this is michael peca. He wants to tell you a story about holding out for the difference of $500k. He got traded to a city where the extra money was spent in the first month in taxes and property values where he lived in a smaller home with a crap load more people. The sabres made an example of him by making him miss an entire year. Yes, there was a team who was still interested at the time, but it was never the same for him. So sometimes, just staying with the ones who brought you to the dance can be a valuable lesson. We've put top 3 money out there. if you were a top safety, we'd be a playoff team. show us the playoffs and we'll happily renegotiate the following year if need be.

[justasportsfan]

how was this the bills fault? Byrd thinks he's the best safety and both the bills and 99.5% of the NFL doesn't.

[trapezeus]

Honestly I get pissed at this organization all the time. They handle some stuff in the worst possible way. The Byrd situation is not one of them I actually applaud the front office to not caving. They offered a fair contract and wont budge if he wants to leave let him. Get something back for him and continue the rebuild. Does it make us worse it sure does but we are no competing this season any way. If you legitimately think Byrd is part of the long term plan and willing to sign here for fair money you keep him. If he is just a year or two holdover let him go and find a replacement maybe that makes us get one more L which is actually better as that equals a higher draft pick.


I ask everyone complaining about this situation how you would feel if the Bills signed him to 9 million + a year only to find out he has and the Bills knew about this injury to his foot. Everyone would be up in arms how we have damaged goods and the Front office botched another one.

I understand we have all suffered through these years. At some point though it has to turn around it may not be this year it may not be next but when the front office does something that actually makes sense we need to recognize that.

I agree with you 100%, but just food for thought, why do we get the sense the bills are turning it around when they didn't sign levitre and byrd, but got an oft injured wood back? levitre is the real issue to me, because the line was servicable and the backups were good backups. now we are pushing hte backups into starter roles and no one behind them.

byrd being here or not is a bit inconsequential. if the rebuild goes as planned, he might not really be a difference maker in 3 years based on his foot.

at some point, the bills need to learn how to win with who they draft and keep them. and they will need to keep drafting well, something that hasn't happened for a long time.

[don137]

If the Bills offered top 5 safety money I feel this is more than fair. To have his kind of reaction from offered top 5 money is ludicrous. What a whiny, spoiled punk. I am not a huge fan of the front office but I think they were fair in this situation.

[trapezeus]

how was this the bills fault? Byrd thinks he's the best safety and both the bills and 99.5% of the NFL doesn't.

which makes the trade even harder. who is going ot give up a first round pick and then sign him to a high contract when he's yammered about a foot injury. the options of trading him are limited...and in some ways the bigger douche he becomes, the more the bills will have to just accept getting anything for him.

but i think they could play hardball with him as well. not cave on his trade request and then franchise him again the following year.

[The King]

Bills got a 1st, 4th and conditional 6th pick for Peters. Granted LT's are more valuable than safety's but food for thought.

[justasportsfan]

which makes the trade even harder. who is going ot give up a first round pick and then sign him to a high contract when he's yammered about a foot injury. the options of trading him are limited...and in some ways the bigger douche he becomes, the more the bills will have to just accept getting anything for him.

but i think they could play hardball with him as well. not cave on his trade request and then franchise him again the following year.

the game moves on without him. He in turn loses more the more he acts like a baby. The bills should put his locker beside Woods

[Skooby]

Bills got a 1st, 4th and conditional 6th pick for Peters. Granted LT's are more valuable than safety's but food for thought. If anything like that was available earlier this year, Byrd would be a distant memory already.

[jdaltroy5]

Hes not the best safety in the league. Not even close.

Name all of the FS that are better than him.

[DBrown77]

I hope they ship his A@@ out of here. Next man up.

[better days]

I agree with you 100%, but just food for thought, why do we get the sense the bills are turning it around when they didn't sign levitre and byrd, but got an oft injured wood back? levitre is the real issue to me, because the line was servicable and the backups were good backups. now we are pushing hte backups into starter roles and no one behind them.

byrd being here or not is a bit inconsequential. if the rebuild goes as planned, he might not really be a difference maker in 3 years based on his foot.

at some point, the bills need to learn how to win with who they draft and keep them. and they will need to keep drafting well, something that hasn't happened for a long time.

Legursky is a good back up. He is a great backup for Woods at Center.

And despite what some people say, the Bills have drafted WELL since Nix was made GM. Nix rebuilt the scouting dept as well.

Whaley has made a few changes to it, he moved up to Nix's position as GM & hired someone to take his old spot so we shall see if the Scouting dept is better or not.

[imbondz]

Zzzzzzzzzz

[better days]

which makes the trade even harder. who is going ot give up a first round pick and then sign him to a high contract when he's yammered about a foot injury. the options of trading him are limited...and in some ways the bigger douche he becomes, the more the bills will have to just accept getting anything for him.

but i think they could play hardball with him as well. not cave on his trade request and then franchise him again the following year.

It has been reported Byrd had this injury last year. Probably why a trade could not be made or why the Bills refuse to pay more than they have already offered.

From the Bills, they say they still want to get a deal done with Byrd after the season ends, so they may be playing hardball & will refuse any trade unless they get great value.

I hope that is the case myself.

[The King]

Name all of the FS that are better than him.
Earl Thomas & Eric Weddle

[streetkings01]

Why do people act like the Bills are the only organization that loses their young talent? Didn't the 49ers just lose a pro bowl safety this offseason and a damn good young up and coming TE? It happens to everybody not just the Bills..........look at the old Colts team.......they paid Manning, Wayne and Harrison and basically reshuffled the deck on the defensive side every year. Bottom line is the player has to want to play for your team and every player in the NFL doesn't always want to stay with the original team that drafted them for many reasons. Money is not always the reason........sometimes these guys would rather play in a different area for various reasons.

[Skooby]

Name all of the FS that are better than him.

Any S on the field not sitting injured on the sideline with PF.

[jdaltroy5]

Earl Thomas & Eric Weddle
Both players are very good. I don't think they are head and shoulders above Byrd, but I could definitely see an argument being made that they are better.

For example, ESPN has Thomas ranked as the 17th best defender, Weddle as the 24th, and Byrd as the 26th. Not much difference there.

This Bleacher Report (I know) article has their FS ranked as:

1) Weddle
2) Reed
3) Byrd
4) Thomas

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1108644-br-nfl-1000-top-32-free-safeties/page/33

This one has Weddle number 1, Byrd number 2 and Thomas number 6.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1444324-br-nfl-1000-2013-top-75-safeties/page/55

This one has Byrd ranked higher than both:
http://www.footballnation.com/content/2012-2013-final-nfl-free-strong-safety-rankings/22622/

Pro football focus did a ranking of the best seasons for a FS over the last 5 years. Byrd's 2012 season was ranked 3rd, his 2011 season was ranked 15th.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/07/24/page-of-fame-safeties/

I also remember someone posting another Pro Football Focus about how Byrd had the highest impact relative to the score of any FS in the NFL.

You can argue all you want about whether or not Byrd is the best safety in the NFL, the fact of the matter is that he definitely belongs in the discussion. If Thomas and Weddle are better than him, it would be marginally at best.

Byrd isn't trying to be the highest paid FS because he thinks he's the best. He wants to be the highest paid FS because he is ONE of the best and he happens to be the one that is a FA this offseason.

[jdaltroy5]

Why do people act like the Bills are the only organization that loses their young talent? Didn't the 49ers just lose a pro bowl safety this offseason and a damn good young up and coming TE? It happens to everybody not just the Bills..........look at the old Colts team.......they paid Manning, Wayne and Harrison and basically reshuffled the deck on the defensive side every year. Bottom line is the player has to want to play for your team and every player in the NFL doesn't always want to stay with the original team that drafted them for many reasons. Money is not always the reason........sometimes these guys would rather play in a different area for various reasons.
The Niners and Ravens lose talent because they have it bursting at the seams. The Niners sent 9 guys to the Pro Bowl. The Ravens had to re-sign their Super Bowl MVP QB to a new long term deal.

The Bills sit 25 mil under the cap and nickle and dime their few Pro Bowl players.

It's a HUGE difference.

[Skooby]

Both players are very good. I don't think they are head and shoulders above Byrd, but I could definitely see an argument being made that they are better.

For example, ESPN has Thomas ranked as the 17th best defender, Weddle as the 24th, and Byrd as the 26th. Not much difference there.

This Bleacher Report (I know) article has their FS ranked as:

1) Weddle
2) Reed
3) Byrd
4) Thomas

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1108644-br-nfl-1000-top-32-free-safeties/page/33

This one has Weddle number 1, Byrd number 2 and Thomas number 6.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1444324-br-nfl-1000-2013-top-75-safeties/page/55

This one has Byrd ranked higher than both:
http://www.footballnation.com/content/2012-2013-final-nfl-free-strong-safety-rankings/22622/

Pro football focus did a ranking of the best seasons for a FS over the last 5 years. Byrd's 2012 season was ranked 3rd, his 2011 season was ranked 15th.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/07/24/page-of-fame-safeties/

I also remember someone posting another Pro Football Focus about how Byrd had the highest impact relative to the score of any FS in the NFL.

You can argue all you want about whether or not Byrd is the best safety in the NFL, the fact of the matter is that he definitely belongs in the discussion. If Thomas and Weddle are better than him, it would be marginally at best.

Byrd isn't trying to be the highest paid FS because he thinks he's the best. He wants to be the highest paid FS because he is ONE of the best and he happens to be the one that is a FA this offseason.
Anyone not injured playing > Byrd sitting on the sideline pouting about his missed opportunity & wanting to be traded.

[better days]

Both players are very good. I don't think they are head and shoulders above Byrd, but I could definitely see an argument being made that they are better.

For example, ESPN has Thomas ranked as the 17th best defender, Weddle as the 24th, and Byrd as the 26th. Not much difference there.

This Bleacher Report (I know) article has their FS ranked as:

1) Weddle
2) Reed
3) Byrd
4) Thomas

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1108644-br-nfl-1000-top-32-free-safeties/page/33

This one has Weddle number 1, Byrd number 2 and Thomas number 6.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1444324-br-nfl-1000-2013-top-75-safeties/page/55

This one has Byrd ranked higher than both:
http://www.footballnation.com/content/2012-2013-final-nfl-free-strong-safety-rankings/22622/

Pro football focus did a ranking of the best seasons for a FS over the last 5 years. Byrd's 2012 season was ranked 3rd, his 2011 season was ranked 15th.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/07/24/page-of-fame-safeties/

I also remember someone posting another Pro Football Focus about how Byrd had the highest impact relative to the score of any FS in the NFL.

You can argue all you want about whether or not Byrd is the best safety in the NFL, the fact of the matter is that he definitely belongs in the discussion. If Thomas and Weddle are better than him, it would be marginally at best.

Byrd isn't trying to be the highest paid FS because he thinks he's the best. He wants to be the highest paid FS because he is ONE of the best and he happens to be the one that is a FA this offseason.

Except the Bills tagged him so he is NOT a FA.

[jdaltroy5]

Anyone not injured playing > Byrd sitting on the sideline pouting about his missed opportunity & wanting to be traded.
Sure, but what's your point?

If the Bills would've just paid him, he wouldn't be sitting on the sideline pouting.

[SpikedLemonade]

The best we could get would be a 2nd round pick. A 3rd round pick is more likely.

[streetkings01]

The Niners and Ravens lose talent because they have it bursting at the seams. The Niners sent 9 guys to the Pro Bowl. The Ravens had to re-sign their Super Bowl MVP QB to a new long term deal.

The Bills sit 25 mil under the cap and nickle and dime their few Pro Bowl players.

It's a HUGE difference.It's not a huge difference.........they let a pro bowl safety leave in FA and replaced him with who? Off the top of my head the 49ers were the first team I though of but there are many teams that lose young talent every year for a many reasons.

Who did the Bills nickle and dime? Didnt we just pay Wood........bottom line you cant keep everybody. Would you rather make Byrd the highest paid FS in the NFL and lose Carrington, Spiller, Wood or a combo of 2 of them? You have to remember......if you pay one player your gonna lose another one........thats the NFL.

[Skooby]

Sure, but what's your point?

If the Bills would've just paid him, he wouldn't be sitting on the sideline pouting.
If he's injured (PF) & not playing, how is he anywhere near the best player ? Players that don't play on the field, pout, throw hissy fits, demand trades through their agent & aren't even good players. I'd call them a liability & a distraction, something the Bills or any team needs.

[Skooby]

The Niners and Ravens lose talent because they have it bursting at the seams. The Niners sent 9 guys to the Pro Bowl. The Ravens had to re-sign their Super Bowl MVP QB to a new long term deal.

The Bills sit 25 mil under the cap and nickle and dime their few INJURED Pro Bowl players looking for #1 money with a serious injury.

It's a HUGE difference. Fixed.

[jdaltroy5]

Except the Bills tagged him so he is NOT a FA.
You missed the entire point.

He was the one that was negotiating a new contract this offseason. Weddle and Thomas weren't.

That's just the way the industry works.

Do you think Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan are two of the top three QBs in the NFL?

[The King]

Both players are very good. I don't think they are head and shoulders above Byrd, but I could definitely see an argument being made that they are better.


For me it's not so much about who's better. It's about game changing players. Byrd could be the best safety in the NFL, but is he as good as Reed and Polamalu were in their prime? No. Those guys could turn the tide of a game, those are the types of safeties you shell out big bucks for.

Byrd is a very good safety and signing him to a long-term deal fills a need. But he's not Reed or Polamalu, he's not even close. I don't want to tie 9M up per season on safety who's marginally better than the non-elite safety's out there right now. I do think that the 7.5m fits the type of player that he is.

I understand that this isn't the way contracts are written up but if I am managing the cap for my team I would rather have the extra 2mill to apply elsewhere than to over pay for a safety.

But the quandary now is you have a player who's looking out for himself. And only himself. If the Bills cave to his demands, they're telling everyone else on this roster that playing hardball with the front office works. And the Bills FO can't let that happen.

[jdaltroy5]

Fixed.
He apparently played the entire season last year with the same injury.

I'm sure he would've toughed it out had we paid him.

[ServoBillieves]

Send him to Jacksonville or Cleveland.

Always liked Byrd, but he's worn out. Injured, whiny, brat. Offered top 5 money and he wants out because he thinks he's the best? Ok. Let's see which other team in the NFL thinks you're the best in the league.

[Skooby]

He apparently played the entire season last year with the same injury.

I'm sure he would've toughed it out had we paid him.
$6.9 M is not being paid ?? It's top 5 money at his position.

[EDS]

It's not a huge difference.........they let a pro bowl safety leave in FA and replaced him with who? Off the top of my head the 49ers were the first team I though of but there are many teams that lose young talent every year for a many reasons.

Who did the Bills nickle and dime? Didnt we just pay Wood........bottom line you cant keep everybody. Would you rather make Byrd the highest paid FS in the NFL and lose Carrington, Spiller, Wood or a combo of 2 of them? You have to remember......if you pay one player your gonna lose another one........thats the NFL.

Didn't the 49ers use a first round pick (Reid) to fill Goldson's spot? Seems like a high price to pay, but that is fine if you are a contender and have a few holes to fill but not if you are a rebuilding team like the Bills that still needs to add premimum talent and can't afford to create more holes.

[jdaltroy5]

For me it's not so much about who's better. It's about game changing players. Byrd could be the best safety in the NFL, but is he as good as Reed and Polamalu were in their prime? No. Those guys could turn the tide of a game, those are the types of safeties you shell out big bucks for.This argument drives me insane. He's not as good as two of the best safeties in the last 20 years were in their prime. And Mario Williams isn't as good as Bruce Smith was in his prime either. Should we cut him?

And Byrd DOES make big plays all the time. In fact, Pro Football Focus had an article about how he made more game changing plays than any other FS in the league.


Byrd is a very good safety and signing him to a long-term deal fills a need. But he's not Reed or Polamalu, he's not even close. I don't want to tie 9M up per season on safety who's marginally better than the non-elite safety's out there right now. I do think that the 7.5m fits the type of player that he is.Marginally better than non-elite safeties? C'mon man, that's just ridiculous. He is a top 3 FS in the league and he's just entering his prime.

And what's the difference between 7.5 mil and 9 mil? That would eat up exactly 6% of our REMAINING cap space. They could've structured a deal to pay him a huge chunk of it this year. He could've been a 5 mil a year cap hit in 3 years.


I understand that this isn't the way contracts are written up but if I am managing the cap for my team I would rather have the extra 2mill to apply elsewhere than to over pay for a safety.Like where? The extension deadline is July 15. Rookies get paid on a scale (and most are signed by that point). Do you want to hold that cap space just in case Tom Brady gets cut and you think that extra 2 mil is going to put us over the top?


But the quandary now is you have a player who's looking out for himself. And only himself. If the Bills cave to his demands, they're telling everyone else on this roster that playing hardball with the front office works. And the Bills FO can't let that happen.I agree that Byrd is really starting to be a douche about it, but I disagree about the precedent it sets.

The only leverage a good player on a bad team has is his ability to sit out. If McKelvin wanted to sit out for a bigger contract, the Bills would just bury him and his career would be over.

The only leverage a bad team with a good player has is money. The Bills simply CANNOT expect every player to accept "fair market value." We expect them to because we cheer for the Bills and we hope the players are good guys. If Cleveland or Detroit or some other team I didn't care about drafted me and I became an elite player, you bet your sweet ass I'd be asking for more than I'm worth.

- - - Updated - - -


$6.9 M is not being paid ?? It's top 5 money at his position.
Now you're just arguing semantics.

Being paid what he felt like he deserved.

[GingerP]

$6.9 M is not being paid ?? It's top 5 money at his position.

Actually, it's not.

The old formula to calculate the tag used the average of the top-5 highest-paid players at the position in the prior year. Using the old formula, Byrd's cap number would have been $8.407M this year (average of 2012 cap numbers of Antrel Rolle-$9M, Troy Polamalu-$8.8875M, Ed Reed-$8.5M, Eric Berry-$8.0455M, Eric Weddle-$7.6M).

The new formula is more complex. Now the tag is based on the five-year average cap percentage for the tag at each position. That percentage is applied against the 2013 cap to get the number. The players gets that tag number or 120% of his prior year salary, whichever is greater. This is one way the new CBA was not great for the players.

Based on APY Byrd is the 9th-highest paid S in the NFL.

His cap number this year is 6th highest in the NFL.

[lightningbolt444]

Also if Byrd is Elite I would expect the secondaries to have performed much better around him than they have. He is a good player and a great opportunity player. I dont think of him as elite at all to be honest. He had a GREAT rookie year then a pretty bad 2010 a medicore 2011 and a Good year last year. How does this make him elite? Over the last three years his int total is the same as what it was during his rookie season. Also throughout this whole time the Bills have had an awful pass d. The Bills get BURNED for more deep balls than any other team I watch yet the blame goes to the CBS (which a lot should) yet Byrd is an elite safety. Has anyone done any statistics perhaps his inflated INT totals are because teams are going deep on the Bills more than they are most other teams. To me if that is the case it signals that Byrd is not Elite at all.

[justasportsfan]

Always liked Byrd, but he's worn out. Injured, whiny, brat. Offered top 5 money and he wants out because he thinks he's the best? Ok. Let's see which other team in the NFL thinks you're the best in the league.


THIS!!!!!

[GingerP]

Also if Byrd is Elite I would expect the secondaries to have performed much better around him than they have.

You don't consider Eric Berry elite either. He played for a Chief's team worse than the Bills.

The argument makes no sense. There are good players on bad teams. Is Larry Fitzgerald no longer elite because the Cards sucked last year?

[jdaltroy5]

It's not a huge difference.........they let a pro bowl safety leave in FA and replaced him with who? Off the top of my head the 49ers were the first team I though of but there are many teams that lose young talent every year for a many reasons.They let a Pro Bowl Safety leave because they only have 6.5 million in cap space. They literally could not afford to keep him without cutting other players. They also have to re-sign Whitner, Goodwin, and Justin Smith after this season and Gore, Crabtree, Aldon Smith, Iupati, and Kaepernick the year after that.

Yes, it's a HUGE difference.


Who did the Bills nickle and dime? The guy who this thread is about.


Didnt we just pay WoodYes, the oft injured borderline top ten C when healthy. SCORE!



bottom line you cant keep everybody.When you as few talented players as we do and a QB on a rookie contract for the next 5 years, you can keep everybody.



Would you rather make Byrd the highest paid FS in the NFL and lose Carrington, Spiller, Wood or a combo of 2 of them?That is absolute nonsense. There's no reason we couldn't fit all of those contracts under the cap. Spiller isn't a free agent until 2016. Wood already got his 6 million. We still have 19 mil in cap space AFTER Wood's contract. And I don't give a flying f about Carrington. The guy is a borderline starter who will be asking in the 3-4 mil range AT MOST.



You have to remember......if you pay one player your gonna lose another one........thats the NFL.Except we already lost another one. Remember that young LG who played every game at an elite level?

I was ok with losing Levitre if it meant that we were going to re-sign Byrd. Realistically, we could've kept both, but I understood the move. They didn't want to be pressed right up against the cap.

Teams DO lose elite players all the time, but they SHOULDN'T lose multiple elite players while they have so much cap space.

There's no excuse for it.

[justasportsfan]

google NFL top safeties. I have yet to find anyone say Byrd is the best. If he thinks he's the best he should at least be mentioned at least once, no?

[jdaltroy5]

Also if Byrd is Elite I would expect the secondaries to have performed much better around him than they have. He is a good player and a great opportunity player. I dont think of him as elite at all to be honest. He had a GREAT rookie year then a pretty bad 2010 a medicore 2011 and a Good year last year. How does this make him elite? Over the last three years his int total is the same as what it was during his rookie season. Also throughout this whole time the Bills have had an awful pass d. The Bills get BURNED for more deep balls than any other team I watch yet the blame goes to the CBS (which a lot should) yet Byrd is an elite safety. Has anyone done any statistics perhaps his inflated INT totals are because teams are going deep on the Bills more than they are most other teams. To me if that is the case it signals that Byrd is not Elite at all.

Clearly you're just watching the box scores then.

Byrd was MUCH, MUCH better in 2011 than he was in 2009.

Sure, he didn't have as many INTs, but his coverage was much better and he REALLY stepped up his game in run support.

Pro Football Focus ranked his 2011 season as the 15th best season of any FS in the last 5 years. His 2009 season wasn't even on the list.

[Novacane]

He apparently played the entire season last year with the same injury.

I'm sure he would've toughed it out had we paid him.



You don't give a huge contract to a guy you know is injured and hope he "toughs it out"

[Skooby]

You don't give a huge contract to a guy you know is injured and hope he "toughs it out" Isn't this common sense ?? Who pays #1 $ for a injured player ? If anything, you set up a contract with a good base amount. Then add incentives that Byrd can reach if he plays at a certain level / games, not just hand him #1 money & hope for the best.

[DBrown77]

Sure, but what's your point?

If the Bills would've just paid him, he wouldn't be sitting on the sideline pouting.

he would just be on the sideline because if his injury.

I am not sure paying a Safety #1 money is smart when he has a potential serious lingering injury. I am agreeing with Mitch for the first time of my life :)

[lightningbolt444]

You don't consider Eric Berry elite either. He played for a Chief's team worse than the Bills.

The argument makes no sense. There are good players on bad teams. Is Larry Fitzgerald no longer elite because the Cards sucked last year?



Fitzgerald had less than 800 yards last season while he has elite talent and was probably just a case of who the QB was I would not say he is at the top 3 at his position

Berry was coming off an ACL injury last season at at times looked awful even at the end of the year he was not the player he was during his rookie year.

To me an ELITE player makes everyone better not just putting up great individual statistics. Great players put up great statistics. Elite players make everyone better and put up great statistics.

[jdaltroy5]

google NFL top safeties. I have yet to find anyone say Byrd is the best. If he thinks he's the best he should at least be mentioned at least once, no?
Pro Football Focus had an article about how he was the best safety in the league.

You know, the website that watches "every down, from every player."

Anyway, you guys STILL don't get it do you?

It's not that he thinks he is the best (although he definitely belongs in the discussion).

It's that he's ONE of the best and he's the one that happens to be negotiating his contract this offseason.

If Thomas, Weddle, Byrd, Polamalu in his prime, and Reed in his prime were all FAs this year, Byrd wouldn't be the highest paid.

But Byrd is the one negotiating his contract, so he will be the highest paid UNTIL another elite safety has an expired contract.

Do you Flacco and Ryan are two of the top three QBs in the league?

[jdaltroy5]

You don't give a huge contract to a guy you know is injured and hope he "toughs it out"
He has already toughed it out while under contract.

It's not like he's coming off of ACL surgery.

It's plantar fasciitis. I know weekend warriors who have played ball hockey and touch football with it.

[justasportsfan]

Pro Football Focus had an article about how he was the best safety in the league.

You know, the website that watches "every down, from every player."

Anyway, you guys STILL don't get it do you?

It's not that he thinks he is the best (although he definitely belongs in the discussion).

It's that he's ONE of the best and he's the one that happens to be negotiating his contract this offseason.

If Thomas, Weddle, Byrd, Polamalu in his prime, and Reed in his prime were all FAs this year, Byrd wouldn't be the highest paid.

But Byrd is the one negotiating his contract, so he will be the highest paid UNTIL another elite safety has an expired contract.

Do you Flacco and Ryan are two of the top three QBs in the league?

No. Byrd doesn't get it. That's why he's whining. He decided to go all business and now he's crying.

I am almost 100% sure that he won't get no.1 safety salary if he gets traded.

[The King]

And by the way to allow this to leak to the media, is a typical Parker move. This could've been done behind closed doors. To have this come out days before the opener is a circus.

[jdaltroy5]

Fitzgerald had less than 800 yards last season while he has elite talent and was probably just a case of who the QB was I would not say he is at the top 3 at his position

Berry was coming off an ACL injury last season at at times looked awful even at the end of the year he was not the player he was during his rookie year.

To me an ELITE player makes everyone better not just putting up great individual statistics. Great players put up great statistics. Elite players make everyone better and put up great statistics.

So what do you think of Kyle Williams?

[lightningbolt444]

Clearly you're just watching the box scores then.

Byrd was MUCH, MUCH better in 2011 than he was in 2009.

Sure, he didn't have as many INTs, but his coverage was much better and he REALLY stepped up his game in run support.

Pro Football Focus ranked his 2011 season as the 15th best season of any FS in the last 5 years. His 2009 season wasn't even on the list.

So you are complaining about the wood resigning because he is often injured but not currently injured. But Byrd who is injured the Bills should have given #1 money to not only is he injured it is an injury that will always stay with him. Your logic makes a ton of sense :phew:

[Thunderkyss]

Byrd's a lost cause. It's too late to be worrying about Byrd. Anything that could have been done to keep him on this team should have been done prior to last season. Not so much signing him, but laying the ground work, setting the feelers, & making plans for the offseason.

Chances are slim that you're going to find a player to replace Byrd in the last draft, but I'd have drafted one (like you did in Williams) & I'd have brought in a FA safety & I'd have brought in a couple of UDFA safeties, throw them in camp & see what shakes out. Then if things turn out the way they appear to be turning out I'd have a good chance of at least getting decent safety play from somewhere. Maybe not the play-maker Byrd was.

Then there's no way I'd let Byrd play another down. My story is that he's hurt, doesn't look good in practice, going with better options. If Byrd & his agent can find me a 3rd or better, I'd take it. If not, I'll have a trade in place for two 6th round picks, sending him to Oakland, Jacksonville, Cleveland, or Tampa Bay.

But the team leadership needs to determine if this is reflective of the culture they are fostering. It may have nothing to do with it, like Dunta Robinson did not want to stay in Houston. He had seen many players get paid money they did not deserve & he wanted his. It sucks for Dunta to have his time come up under our newest regime, but that's the way it fell. He got stupid money being franchised that year, I think $9M, then he got a big contract from Atlanta, & he never played up to it in either place.

You don't want that to be you. Doesn't matter if Byrd has a few more Pro Bowl seasons left in him, he doesn't want to be a part of the Buffalo Bills... no way that can work to better your future.

[The King]

Do you Flacco and Ryan are two of the top three QBs in the league?

Obviously not but that position is much more important to the success of a team than saftey is.

[jdaltroy5]

No. Byrd doesn't get it. That's why he's whining. He decided to go all business and now he's crying.

I am almost 100% sure that he won't get no.1 safety salary if he gets traded.
Kind of like how Jason Peters wouldn't get #1 LT money if he gets traded? Remember how much of a whiner he was and how he had such a terrible season?

I can pretty much guarantee that Byrd will get more than 7.5 mil a year if he gets traded.

I don't know if another team is even ALLOWED to extend him until after the season though.

[lightningbolt444]

So what do you think of Kyle Williams?


Our Kyle Williams is a great player that is underrated by the rest of NFL Fans but as normal with our players overrated by our fanbase

[GingerP]

To me an ELITE player makes everyone better not just putting up great individual statistics. Great players put up great statistics. Elite players make everyone better and put up great statistics.

Is Maurice Jones-Drew and elite player? Is Drew Brees? Neither guy played on a winning team last year.

The Bills mostly weren't that good when O.J played for them. Was he an elite player.

The Chicago Bears had both Dick Butkus and Gayle Sayers and weren't a good team. Were they not elite.

Football is a team game.

[jdaltroy5]

Obviously not but that position is much more important to the success of a team than saftey is.
And that's why they're getting over 20 mil a year and not 9.

The premise remains the same though.

They are the highest paid QBs in the league without being the best.

Why? Because their contracts happened to be up this year.

[The King]

I don't know if another team is even ALLOWED to extend him until after the season though.

Nope.

[The King]

And that's why they're getting over 20 mil a year and not 9.

The premise remains the same though.

They are the highest paid QBs in the league without being the best.

Why? Because their contracts happened to be up this year.

I think you can overspend for certain players/positions. I don't think Byrd/Safety is one of them. I might feel differently if he didn't play the business angle and wanted to be here and be a leader.

You're also talking about a player who changed the face of a Franchise and a guy who won a Super Bowl.

[jdaltroy5]

Is Maurice Jones-Drew and elite player? Is Drew Brees? Neither guy played on a winning team last year.

The Bills mostly weren't that good when O.J played for them. Was he an elite player.

The Chicago Bears had both Dick Butkus and Gayle Sayers and weren't a good team. Were they not elite.

Football is a team game.

Joe Thomas, Maurkice Pouncey, Jamaal Charles, Heath Miller, Spiller, Cameron Wake, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson, Antonio Cromartie, Calvin Johnson, Jahri Evans, Jason Witten, Doug Martin, Vincent Jackson, Demarcus Ware, Gerald McCoy, Patrick Peterson, and Ndamukong Suh are all terrible players because their team didn't finish with a record above .500.

[lightningbolt444]

Is Maurice Jones-Drew and elite player? Is Drew Brees? Neither guy played on a winning team last year.

The Bills mostly weren't that good when O.J played for them. Was he an elite player.

The Chicago Bears had both Dick Butkus and Gayle Sayers and weren't a good team. Were they not elite.

Football is a team game.

First MJD is not elite nor did he play the full season last year. Second Brees is elite that team would win next to nothing with him. How many games does Byrd win us a year? Also no one has addressed how often the Bills get beat over the top. Is this a coverage thing that Byrd is just never around or is he getting beat along with other CBs? Could be either.

Byrd is top 10 not top 3 at his position . Also regardless if he was the 3rd ranks Safety last season I would not want to see him signed to a 9 million + huge signing bonus and Guaranteed money when a known LINGERING no cure injury is present. Those are the kinds of mistakes that will set us back. While you need to spend money and we need to spend more than we do just throwing it around because we have it is going to do mroe harm than good.

[lightningbolt444]

Joe Thomas, Maurkice Pouncey, Jamaal Charles, Heath Miller, Spiller, Cameron Wake, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson, Antonio Cromartie, Calvin Johnson, Jahri Evans, Jason Witten, Doug Martin, Vincent Jackson, Demarcus Ware, Gerald McCoy, Patrick Peterson, and Ndamukong Suh are all terrible players because their team didn't finish with a record above .500.

How many ELITE players do you actually think the NFL has? Again a huge difference between Average,Good,Great and Elite. I see two on your list I would classify as elite. The rest are Great to good and some had pretty bad seasons last year as well. Also what would that teams record be without them? If the Lions lost Calvin Johnson how many more games would they lose? If we lost Byrd would it equal that amount of games?

[jdaltroy5]

I think you can overspend for certain players/positions. I don't think Byrd/Safety is one of them. That's why other position like DE, LT, and QB generally make more money. They are more integral to the team's success. If we were up against the cap and we had to make a decision between an elite FS and an elite DE, I'd let Byrd walk. But we're not even close, so we're just letting elite talent walk away for no good reason. Who cares if he's overpaid? Front load the contract so the biggest cap hit is this year.

You're also talking about a player who changed the face of a Franchise and a guy who won a Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]
I'm also talking about a guy who just got his first playoff win in his 5th year in the league.

[The King]

That's why other position like DE, LT, and QB generally make more money. They are more integral to the team's success. If we were up against the cap and we had to make a decision between an elite FS and an elite DE, I'd let Byrd walk. But we're not even close, so we're just letting elite talent walk away for no good reason. Who cares if he's overpaid? Front load the contract so the biggest cap hit is this year.

You're also talking about a player who changed the face of a Franchise and a guy who won a Super Bowl.
I'm also talking about a guy who just got his first playoff win in his 5th year in the league.

I agree with the first part our cap situation makes the logic flawed. But I guess my approach is that we eventually plan to spend the cap.

[jdaltroy5]

How many ELITE players do you actually think the NFL has? Again a huge difference between Average,Good,Great and Elite. I see two on your list I would classify as elite. The rest are Great to good and some had pretty bad seasons last year as well. Also what would that teams record be without them? If the Lions lost Calvin Johnson how many more games would they lose? If we lost Byrd would it equal that amount of games?
I'm not going to go over hypothetical situations with you or argue semantics over the definition of a word. That's all irrelevant. BTW, Calvin Johnson just signed a 132 million dollar contract. Byrd was probably looking for about 1/3 of that.

The fact of the matter is that the Bills will most likely lose a very good/great/elite (or whatever you want to call it) player and they are sitting with a TON of cap space.

That should be absolutely unacceptable.

[Novacane]

He has already toughed it out while under contract.

It's not like he's coming off of ACL surgery.

It's plantar fasciitis. I know weekend warriors who have played ball hockey and touch football with it.


Ok.If it's no big deal then Byrd is being a pussy about it now because he didn't get what he wanted.. If that's the type of person he is I'm glad they didn't make him the top paid safety.

[jdaltroy5]

I agree with the first part our cap situation makes the logic flawed. But I guess my approach is that we eventually plan to spend the cap.
On what? Wood is now signed, Spiller's contract isn't up for 3 more years. The biggest part of most team's cap space is the QB and we have ours signed for 5 more years.

If we DO end up signing a big name FA, you can bet your sweet ass we're going to be overpaying him. No elite player is going to come to Buffalo without being overpaid, that's just a fact.

So we can overpay the elite player we already have on our roster, or we can save that money so we can overpay a hypothetical FA next year.

- - - Updated - - -


Our Kyle Williams is a great player that is underrated by the rest of NFL Fans but as normal with our players overrated by our fanbase
How is he a great player if our defense is so bad?

[better days]

- - - Updated - - -


How is he a great player if our defense is so bad?

This is the same argument I have been having with Op.

The defense was so bad last year because of TERRIBLE Coaching by Wanny as well as a terrible system.

Not because of the players.

[jdaltroy5]

So you are complaining about the wood resigning because he is often injured but not currently injured. But Byrd who is injured the Bills should have given #1 money to not only is he injured it is an injury that will always stay with him. Your logic makes a ton of sense :phew:No, I'm not complaining about the Wood signing. I liked the signing. I think he got paid what he deserved.

He is now the 4th highest paid C in the league.

Is he better than Myers, Mack, Mike Pouncey, Maurkice Pouncey, Goodwin, or Baas?

Probably not, but his contract was up and that's why he leap-frogged them.

[lightningbolt444]

I'm not going to go over hypothetical situations with you or argue semantics over the definition of a word. That's all irrelevant. BTW, Calvin Johnson just signed a 132 million dollar contract. Byrd was probably looking for about 1/3 of that.

The fact of the matter is that the Bills will most likely lose a very good/great/elite (or whatever you want to call it) player and they are sitting with a TON of cap space.

That should be absolutely unacceptable.

We disagree on how to classify players that is fine but Why would you throw away the money on an injured player just because you have it? If they sign Byrd to 9 million plus a ton Guaranteed over 4 to 5 years you don't think that will affect how we sign players for AT LEAST the next three years? They could have got creative and got rid of it at a minimum of two years but it still would greatly affect us next season. Now how would you feel when Byrd's play declines because of this injury? Maybe he will tough it out for 5 more years like he did last season but maybe he will decline this year to me that is to much of an unknown to throw top money at him and what we offered him was just perfect.

One thing we dont have right now that a lot of teams do is a huge QB contract so we probably should spend a good bit while we can on other positions but that still does not mean throw it around and take risks.

[jdaltroy5]

This is the same argument I have been having with Op.

The defense was so bad last year because of TERRIBLE Coaching by Wanny as well as a terrible system.

Not because of the players.
But hold on, I thought an elite player could not play in a terrible defense?

[Bill Cody]

He apparently played the entire season last year with the same injury.

I'm sure he would've toughed it out had we paid him.

So what does that say about his character?

It tells me that the Bills made the right call. They offered him a generous contract. Mr. Byrd and his agent overshot his worth and now he's acting like a bitter fraud. If I were another GM I wouldn't touch this guy with a 10 foot pole. Byrd has a decision to make. Continue to fake injury and risk hurting his future salary or man up and do his best for the team paying him 9 large.

[lightningbolt444]

But hold on, I thought an elite player could not play in a terrible defense?

Neither player is ELITE. You have a better argument with Byrd than Williams being Elite. We as Bills fans tend to overrate every player on our roster be it 1st rounders, UDFA, Practice Squad guys or solid vets. You can be a very good player and not be an elite player

[Skooby]

But hold on, I thought an elite player could not play in a terrible defense? A seriously injured player won't play & you don't pay an injured player #1 $, what exactly guarantees us him becoming healthy at any point in the near future ?

[jdaltroy5]

We disagree on how to classify players that is fine but Why would you throw away the money on an injured player just because you have it? If they sign Byrd to 9 million plus a ton Guaranteed over 4 to 5 years you don't think that will affect how we sign players for AT LEAST the next three years?Again, Plantar Fasciitis is NOT a serious injury. He played with it last year. Players play with much worse every week. And I don't understand what you mean by it affecting the way we sign players for the next three years. It isn't some secret that we have to overpay players to attract them.


They could have got creative and got rid of it at a minimum of two years but it still would greatly affect us next season.This is what I would've done. 5 years/45 mil with 20 mil guaranteed. Base salary of 15 mil this year, 7 mil next year, followed by 3 years at 1 mil. Cap hits would be 19 mil, 11 mil, 5 mil, 5 mil, 5 mil.


Now how would you feel when Byrd's play declines because of this injury? Maybe he will tough it out for 5 more years like he did last season but maybe he will decline this year to me that is to much of an unknown to throw top money at him and what we offered him was just perfect.So, put an injury clause in the contract.


One thing we dont have right now that a lot of teams do is a huge QB contract so we probably should spend a good bit while we can on other positions but that still does not mean throw it around and take risks.So you want to be safe and make sure we pay every player EXACTLY what they are worth? That doesn't seem to be working that well for us.

- - - Updated - - -


A seriously injured player won't play & you don't pay an injured player #1 $, what exactly guarantees us him becoming healthy at any point in the near future ?
Sweet Jesus, it's plantar fasciitis.

He's not coming off of knee reconstruction.

[ServoBillieves]

Question... if I've missed it then please disregard but this is what makes no sense to me... If he wants a long term contract and to be paid better... isn't there NOTHING we can do about it until the end of the season? Why ***** about it now? If we want to pay him more and get him signed long term, why not stop *****ing about 7 MILLION DOLLARS, prove you're the best, and go from there?

If he can get traded and re-work a deal THIS season, then I understand to some degree, but I really think that an injured, disgruntled player isn't going to be handed a huge contract after sitting out the entire off-season and not playing the first few games of the year. They can all wait until Free Agency and not have to give up draft picks for his whiny ass.

[jdaltroy5]

So what does that say about his character?

It tells me that the Bills made the right call. They offered him a generous contract. Mr. Byrd and his agent overshot his worth and now he's acting like a bitter fraud. If I were another GM I wouldn't touch this guy with a 10 foot pole. Byrd has a decision to make. Continue to fake injury and risk hurting his future salary or man up and do his best for the team paying him 9 large.
If you think other teams are going to pass on him because of this, then you're kidding yourself.

Peters was a hold out (while he was still under contract no less)coming off a terrible season. The day we traded him, he became the highest paid OT in the league.

Teams will always pay for talent.

I'm glad we have a roster full of average talent as long as those guys have great moral character.

[jdaltroy5]

Neither player is ELITE. You have a better argument with Byrd than Williams being Elite. We as Bills fans tend to overrate every player on our roster be it 1st rounders, UDFA, Practice Squad guys or solid vets. You can be a very good player and not be an elite player
So he doesn't meet your completely subjective and arbitrary meaning of elite, so he shouldn't be paid.

Makes sense.

[Ed]

This whole situation is disappointing, but I'm ready to move on. I don't think there's any chance of Byrd re-signing with the Bills after this season, so might as well trade him now if you can. The sooner the better too. A first round pick is a pipe dream though. At best I could see them getting something like a 2nd and conditional 5th.

[Skooby]

- - - Updated - - -


Sweet Jesus, it's plantar fasciitis.

He's not coming off of knee reconstruction. So does that mean if you were the GM that you would pay him #1 money at his position ? It sure sounds like it's no big deal to you but they had a press conference discussion about this as well.

[jdaltroy5]

So does that mean if you were the GM that you would pay him #1 money at his position ? It sure sounds like it's no big deal to you but they had a press conference discussion about this as well.
Of course I would pay him number one money. I think I've made that abundantly clear.

It's not a big deal. I have a friend that played ball hockey and flag football while he had plantar fasciitis.

He said it hurt like hell, but he still played.

[better days]

If you think other teams are going to pass on him because of this, then you're kidding yourself.

Peters was a hold out (while he was still under contract no less)coming off a terrible season. The day we traded him, he became the highest paid OT in the league.

Teams will always pay for talent.

I'm glad we have a roster full of average talent as long as those guys have great moral character.

I agree some team will pay Byrd enough to make him happy.

But if a player does not want to play for a team, that team would have to OVERPAY by a lot to keep him.

That was the situation with Peters & looks to be the situation with Byrd.

It was reported at the time that the Bills offered the same money to Peters that Philly paid him.

[jdaltroy5]

I agree some team will pay Byrd enough to make him happy.

But if a player does not want to play for a team, that team would have to OVERPAY by a lot to keep him.

That was the situation with Peters & looks to be the situation with Byrd.

It was reported at the time that the Bills offered the same money to Peters that Philly paid him.
Serious question - what do the Bills have to offer a player that is an advantage to them?

We haven't made the playoffs since Y2K was an issue. We have a new regime every 3 years. We play in a small market and rarely get prime time games. Our owner is 94 years old and has publicly stated that he will selling the team upon his death. We are in the bottom 5 of just about every power ranking you're going to find on the internet.

Do you think these players are going to sign out of the goodness of their hearts?

[MikeInRoch]

Don't forget: the opportunities to promote yourself are very limited here.

[The King]

Did Byrd ever want to be here in the first place? Isn't it reasonable to think all of this is to get out of town? Ask for a ton of cash, and don't negotiate, hold out, ask for trade, play it out in the media. He doesn't want to be here, if we caved to his demands, he'd take the money and still not want to be here.

[justasportsfan]

I guess the bills are telling Byrd to go see if his value of himself is correct. Now all Byrd has to do is go out and find a trading partner who thinks he's worth what he thinks he's worth.


In the meantime, the bills had no choice but to tag him as not to lose him for nothing and Byrd is crying.

[jdaltroy5]

Did Byrd ever want to be here in the first place? Isn't it reasonable to think all of this is to get out of town? Ask for a ton of cash, and don't negotiate, hold out, ask for trade, play it out in the media. He doesn't want to be here, if we caved to his demands, he'd take the money and still not want to be here.
He played out his whole measly rookie contract after making the pro bowl and leading the league in INTs in his first year.

If he wanted to get out of town, he would've held out 3 years ago.

[The King]

Don't forget: the opportunities to promote yourself are very limited here.
That's what happens when you don't win. Same can be said about Green Bay. Discount Double Check.

[justasportsfan]

Of course I would pay him number one money. I think I've made that abundantly clear.


So you would keep paying players what they think they are worth?

[jdaltroy5]

So you would keep paying players what they think they are worth?
In some cases, sure I would.

If McKelvin came into my office and said he was worth 10 mil a season, I'd laugh him out of there.

But I definitely wouldn't let a 2 time pro bowler; who is just entering his prime, walk away because I thought he was worth 1 mil less than he did.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Alex Carrington isn't a top 5 DE in this league. He's more like top 30.

LMFAO! On what team would Carrington be the #1 DE? Or even the #2 DE? Carrington isn't even one of the top two DEs on this team.


But we are getting worse by this loss... Maybe, you'd have to see what we get in return

There is no way we're getting an elite player back, so the best we can hope for is a high draft pick - and those are a dice roll.


Neither player is ELITE. You have a better argument with Byrd than Williams being Elite. We as Bills fans tend to overrate every player on our roster be it 1st rounders, UDFA, Practice Squad guys or solid vets. You can be a very good player and not be an elite player

Bills fans aren't the ones calling him elite. The football writers voting him onto the All-Pro teams are.


How many games does Byrd win us a year?

At least 2 last year - Arizona and Miami. And that's if you keep the parameters very narrow.



If the Lions lost Calvin Johnson how many more games would they lose?

The Lions went 0-16 WITH Calvin Johnson. And he had a monster year!


It's not a huge difference.........they let a pro bowl safety leave in FA and replaced him with who?

Anquan Boldin, Asomugha, and saving money for their actual elite talent coming due in the next few years: Kaepernick, Smith x 2, Iupati, etc.


Off the top of my head the 49ers were the first team I though of but there are many teams that lose young talent every year for a many reasons.

How many of those teams are perennial doormats losing young talent while sitting on nearly the most cap space in the league?


Would you rather make Byrd the highest paid FS in the NFL and lose Carrington, Spiller, Wood or a combo of 2 of them? You have to remember......if you pay one player your gonna lose another one........thats the NFL.

I've posted the math on this like eight times, it's not a choice between Byrd and Spiller for god's sake. It's a choice between Byrd and bums like Brad Smith, Mark Anderson, Ryan Fitzpatrick - and they are cut. FFS, we already let Levitre leave! How much more cap space do you think we need to save for Spiller? 30 million? 40?


You & your crowd were predicting 5 wins or less before any of this crap with Byrd so what is the difference?

Yes, but now you have convenient excuses to fluff the Bills when they crash and burn this year.

"Byrd was a distraction, he wasn't in camp on time, didn't know the system, etc."

I still don't believe for one second that you are going to turn on Marrone after one year btw.


Also if Byrd is Elite I would expect the secondaries to have performed much better around him than they have. He is a good player and a great opportunity player. I dont think of him as elite at all to be honest. He had a GREAT rookie year then a pretty bad 2010 a medicore 2011 and a Good year last year. How does this make him elite? Over the last three years his int total is the same as what it was during his rookie season. Also throughout this whole time the Bills have had an awful pass d. The Bills get BURNED for more deep balls than any other team I watch yet the blame goes to the CBS (which a lot should) yet Byrd is an elite safety. Has anyone done any statistics perhaps his inflated INT totals are because teams are going deep on the Bills more than they are most other teams. To me if that is the case it signals that Byrd is not Elite at all.

The Bills had the #2 pass D his rookie year and the #10 pass D last year. Yes, the overall D was bad becuase the Run D was atrocious, but who gets the blame for that? Byrd or Dareus, Mario, and Carrington, the guys we CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE!!!!!

[IlluminatusUIUC]

FinNasty made a good point about this (I feel dirty for writing that). Bills fans act like it's a privilege to play for the Bills and the players should be falling all over themselves to sign below market to stay.

Why? It's not close to home for just about any of these guys, NY taxes suck, the weather sucks, the endorsement opportunities are nonexistant, and the team is awful. Why should they?

[trapezeus]

Why do people act like the Bills are the only organization that loses their young talent? Didn't the 49ers just lose a pro bowl safety this offseason and a damn good young up and coming TE? It happens to everybody not just the Bills..........look at the old Colts team.......they paid Manning, Wayne and Harrison and basically reshuffled the deck on the defensive side every year. Bottom line is the player has to want to play for your team and every player in the NFL doesn't always want to stay with the original team that drafted them for many reasons. Money is not always the reason........sometimes these guys would rather play in a different area for various reasons.

and what part of the field are we proven to be good at? ST? thank god we gave mckelvin a $20MM deal to return punts and then draft a WR who is faster than light to do the job better.

[PromoTheRobot]

Worst thing the Bills can do is react to any of this BS.

[kishoph]

I'm not going to go over hypothetical situations with you or argue semantics over the definition of a word. That's all irrelevant. BTW, Calvin Johnson just signed a 132 million dollar contract. Byrd was probably looking for about 1/3 of that.

The fact of the matter is that the Bills will most likely lose a very good/great/elite (or whatever you want to call it) player and they are sitting with a TON of cap space.

That should be absolutely unacceptable.


There's a difference between a very good player and an elite player, the Bills offered him money for a good to great player, he wanted to be paid as an elite player and obviously the Bills don't believe that he is an elite player (nor do I).
Byrd had a very good 2012, he had an average 2011, a below average 2010 and a rookie year were he benefited from hanging deep in a cover 2 and didn't worry about run support. Even counting 2009 as a very good year, means he's had 2 above average years out of 4. IMO that doesn't make him an elite player, do it for 3-4 years straight then consider yourself elite.

[trapezeus]

what i truly don't get is that if Bryd went into the discussions with "i want to be traded." after he heard he got tagged, that should have been discussed.

as evidenced by my sig, i think russ brandon has no idea what he's doing in the grand scheme of things. but i think it's odd that he would say that both sides are working on it and now it's deteriorated into "trade demands"

i really think the bills need to find a way to be difficult back. anyone know what the deal is with "conduct detrimental to the team?" can the bills do this and keep him on the team and not lose him on waivers?

the bills need to say, "these are the rules per the union. we get to do this, and you get to play through it. you could also have signed our deal, played well, and then held out for another contract like revis. we aren't giving you away. and we aren't going to play you enough for suitors to want to pay our price and you can rot on this roster. We have those abilities. Now let's find a better solution where you are playing top end football, and we gladly figure out ways to keep you financially compensated."

lastly, Eugene parker just blows.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

the bills need to say, "these are the rules per the union. we get to do this, and you get to play through it. you could also have signed our deal, played well, and then held out for another contract like revis. we aren't giving you away. and we aren't going to play you enough for suitors to want to pay our price and you can rot on this roster. We have those abilities. Now let's find a better solution where you are playing top end football, and we gladly figure out ways to keep you financially compensated."

lastly, Eugene parker just blows.

Only Bills fans would say spending $7 million and pissing off one of our best players to prove a point is somehow better than paying 9 million to keep him happy.

[jdaltroy5]

There's a difference between a very good player and an elite player, the Bills offered him money for a good to great player, he wanted to be paid as an elite player and obviously the Bills don't believe that he is an elite player (nor do I).
Byrd had a very good 2012, he had an average 2011, a below average 2010 and a rookie year were he benefited from hanging deep in a cover 2 and didn't worry about run support. Even counting 2009 as a very good year, means he's had 2 above average years out of 4. IMO that doesn't make him an elite player, do it for 3-4 years straight then consider yourself elite.
Again, what are you basing that on? His INT numbers?

Let me reiterate. Pro Football Focus, the website that watches every snap of every player in every game ranked his 2011 season as the 15th best season of ANY FS in the last 5 years. BTW, they ranked his 2012 season as the 3rd best season of ANY FS in the last 5 years.

He was not "below average" in 2010, he just didn't have the same INT numbers because teams stopped throwing in his direction.

[trapezeus]

Only Bills fans would say spending $7 million and pissing off one of our best players to prove a point is somehow better than paying 9 million to keep him happy.

i only say that because its become clearer that this situation is not very salvagable based on what we are reading. maybe it's a delicate dance and the two sides can come together.

but the bills hold the dice here. they can say, "we said publically that we were sorry we were off this year but we told you we will negotiate with you next year. rolling out trade demands publically when your foot isn't great, you haven't been here for camp with a new defense, and the distraction you are generating isn't really fair to us. we have the option to make your life terrible. we can sit you this season (where we don't think we are winning anyways), you'll be a year older, we can leak that our medical staff is very concerned about the foot, and there will be very little production for teams to offer you big money. We don't want that, you don't want that. you got $7MM to play this season. do it, and if you play like you have, we will have to increase our offer when we are allowed to."

[Mike]

Most of the a comments are 99% idiotic!

1) you have Byrd for this year and next (you can franchise him again)
2) thus you have all the leverage!
3) DO NOT TRADE HIM

Why would you trade an elite disgruntled player on a very bad team when you have him at least 1-2 years?

If Bills trade him, they will get dick in return and if you guys are ok with bills being ****ed in yet another trade by all means support this!

BTW: Who was the last team to trade a disgruntled Pro-Bowl player for peanuts? And the team before that?

This doesn't happen often except for Buffalo. This falls into the 'Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shane on me....' And now it's the third time.

[Bill Cody]

Only Bills fans would say spending $7 million and pissing off one of our best players to prove a point is somehow better than paying 9 million to keep him happy.

I agree. let's pay every player whatever they ask so we don't have to risk that they'll pout and fake injury.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I agree. let's pay every player whatever they ask so we don't have to risk that they'll pout and fake injury.

We did it with Brad Smith, Chris Kelsay, Mark Anderson, Terrell Owens, etc.

BUT WE HOLD THE LINE ON 26 YEAR OLD ALL PROS DAGNABIT!

Yee haw!

[EDS]

I agree. let's pay every player whatever they ask so we don't have to risk that they'll pout and fake injury.

The problem is the Bills routinely choke on paying top dollar to their top players (e.g., Byrd, Levitre, Peters, Poz, etc.) but spend like a drunken sailor in a whore house on mediocre players (e.g., McKelvin, Kelsay, Fitz, Anderson, etc.).

Definitely not a winning formula.

[jdaltroy5]

I agree. let's pay every player whatever they ask so we don't have to risk that they'll pout and fake injury.
Yeah, let him walk. He's a pouty baby, who plays a non impact position (that he is borderline top ten at), and is injured. We'll definitely get a first in return for that.

No, you don't play EVERY player whatever he wants.

But if you've had one winning season in the last 13 years, you're going to have to offer a bit more money to keep elite talent.

[Bill Cody]

Yeah, let him walk. He's a pouty baby, who plays a non impact position (that he is borderline top ten at), and is injured.

Glad to see we're on the same page.

[Skooby]

Yeah, let him walk. He's a pouty baby, who plays a non impact position (that he is borderline top ten at), and is injured. We'll definitely get a first in return for that.

No, you don't play EVERY player whatever he wants.

But if you've had one winning season in the last 13 years, you're going to have to offer a bit more money to keep elite talent. Is this the injured elite-talent Byrd or the healthy Byrd ?? I'm hearing we have an injured Byrd from Byrd's own mouth, so #1 money isn't going fly nor has it with the management.

[better days]

Yeah, let him walk. He's a pouty baby, who plays a non impact position (that he is borderline top ten at), and is injured. We'll definitely get a first in return for that.

No, you don't play EVERY player whatever he wants.

But if you've had one winning season in the last 13 years, you're going to have to offer a bit more money to keep elite talent.

If a player want to walk, it is going to take a LOT MORE than a bit more money to keep him.

TOO MUCH MONEY. A player can price himself out of a City if he wants to.

[Turf]

Byrd and his agent are starting to piss me off. If this orchestration is true, I'd be looking for ways to **** him.

[jdaltroy5]

If a player want to walk, it is going to take a LOT MORE than a bit more money to keep him.

TOO MUCH MONEY. A player can price himself out of a City if he wants to.
Not always. Sometimes a player just wants to get paid and shown the respect he thinks he deserves.

Look at Peters. He went to Philly, got paid, and then proceeded to keep his mouth shut and play at an elite level.

[justasportsfan]

Not always. Sometimes a player just wants to get paid and shown the respect he thinks he deserves.

Look at Peters. He went to Philly, got paid, and then proceeded to keep his mouth shut and play at an elite level.
he was given the respect by getting tagged. He wanted more. So the bills proceeded from a business standpoint and now he's crying. I wanted Byrd paid but he's acting like a child.

If he doesn't want to stay, fine but the bills have to do it in a way that benefits them .

[EDS]

Is this the injured elite-talent Byrd or the healthy Byrd ?? I'm hearing we have an injured Byrd from Byrd's own mouth, so #1 money isn't going fly nor has it with the management.

Bills gave Mario record money coming off an injury.

[jdaltroy5]

he was given the respect by getting tagged. He wanted more. So the bills proceeded from a business standpoint and now he's crying. I wanted Byrd paid but he's acting like a child.

If he doesn't want to stay, fine but the bills have to do it in a way that benefits them .
I don't think forcing a guy to play on a one year deal for less money than you originally offered him is showing "respect."

I don't agree with the way that Byrd is handling this, but I don't completely blame him either.

[Bill Cody]

I don't think forcing a guy to play on a one year deal for less money than you originally offered him is showing "respect."

I don't agree with the way that Byrd is handling this, but I don't completely blame him either.

Lol the man knew he had a foot problem but still kept his demands in the sky.

[Beebe's Kid]

**** the rumor mill. Byrd got tagged...play for it, my friend. There is nothing in front of him now but opportunity.

If we panic and take a 3rd round pick, we lost. Period. Don't panic. Stay the course. If he plays and earns or, we have it to give to him...if not, see you later.

If he plays well, we can tag him again.

What is the sense in getting all butt-hurt about it? If this was doing to hamper the Bills' SB chances this year, and we could benefit from a trade, then fine. It isn't.

Negotiating is tough for people to decipher. He can make all of the noise he wants to, but he isn't being mistreated. Nobody is torturing the guy. He is a million dollar athlete.

He got drafted by the Bills. He signed a contract. His union negotiated the terms of the tag. The Bills used it.

Yes, he is a very good safety. One of the best in the league. I won't waste time comparing him to QBs or WRs, or worrying if we will be able to sign Carrington or not (best part of this thread by far).

Byrd wants a trade? We don't have a better option at safety, and he has the opportunity to get paid next year? It could be a lot worse.

I think this situation has been mishandled by everybody involved. It is time to realize that nobody won...play some football, and probably find a new agent next off-season and try again.

[justasportsfan]

I don't think forcing a guy to play on a one year deal for less money than you originally offered him is showing "respect."

I don't agree with the way that Byrd is handling this, but I don't completely blame him either. getting tagged puts him up there with the top safeties. Being "forced " to accept that deal is part of the CBA both the players and teams agreed to. He can't cry foul if he knew that this could happen.

How he's going about it is completely on him and I blame him. The bills are not doing anything out of what was agreed with the new CBA. He should just ACT like a PRO and go about business. Acting like a child does not help his cause of thinking he deserves no.1 salary.

[Skooby]

getting tagged puts him up there with the top safeties. Being "forced " to accept that deal is part of the CBA both the players and teams agreed to. He can't cry foul if he knew that this could happen.

How he's going about it is completely on him and I blame him. The bills are not doing anything out of what was agreed with the new CBA. He should just ACT like a PRO and go about business. Acting like a child does not help his cause of thinking he deserves no.1 salary.
If anything it shows the prudence the Bills acted with is justified.

[jdaltroy5]

Lol the man knew he had a foot problem but still kept his demands in the sky.
Because it's not a serious problem. He played an entire season with it.

You guys are just looking for any excuse to vilify him.

[jdaltroy5]

getting tagged puts him up there with the top safeties. Being "forced " to accept that deal is part of the CBA both the players and teams agreed to. He can't cry foul if he knew that this could happen. He's not crying foul. But let's not pretend the Bills "respected" him by slapping the tag on him. They did it as a last resort so they wouldn't lose him.


How he's going about it is completely on him and I blame him. The bills are not doing anything out of what was agreed with the new CBA. He should just ACT like a PRO and go about business. Acting like a child does not help his cause of thinking he deserves no.1 salary.No, I agree. Acting like this does not help his cause at all.

But it didn't have to come to this if the Bills would've just paid the man.

[Skooby]

He's not crying foul. But let's not pretend the Bills "respected" him by slapping the tag on him. They did it as a last resort so they wouldn't lose him.

No, I agree. Acting like this does not help his cause at all.

But it didn't have to come to this if the Bills would've just paid the man. Byrd doesn't want to be here now & the Bills had no intention of paying him #1 money, isn't that clear now ?

[jdaltroy5]

Byrd doesn't want to be here now & the Bills had no intention of paying him #1 money, isn't that clear now ?
Byrd would've stayed here had the Bills paid him number one money.

Instead we're going to flip him for a couple of mediocre picks and watch Aaron Williams (or whoever else) get picked apart all season.

Then we can talk about which elite free safety we're going to take with our high first round pick next year.

How many draft picks does this team waste trying to fill roster spots for guys who have left over contract disputes?

We should be trying to strengthen the roster every year, not trying to fill holes of guys we could've kept.

[better days]

Not always. Sometimes a player just wants to get paid and shown the respect he thinks he deserves.

Look at Peters. He went to Philly, got paid, and then proceeded to keep his mouth shut and play at an elite level.

Like Byrd, Peters wanted out of Buffalo.

Of course he kept his mouth shut in Philly, he got what he wanted.

And he proceeded to get injured.

[jdaltroy5]

Like Byrd, Peters wanted out of Buffalo.

Of course he kept his mouth shut in Philly, he got what he wanted.

And he proceeded to get injured.

Why do you think players consistently want out of Buffalo?

And he got injured after he made the pro bowl three times including two all pro nods.

[Skooby]

Byrd would've stayed here had the Bills paid him number one money.

Major speculation on your part, how can you guarantee he would even be able to play anymore or would want to stay ??

[jdaltroy5]

Major speculation on your part, how can you guarantee he would even be able to play anymore or would want to stay ??
That's not major speculation.

It was widely reported that he wanted number one money.

[better days]

Why do you think players consistently want out of Buffalo?

And he got injured after he made the pro bowl three times including two all pro nods.

He has been injured more than once.

The guy is injury prone. So glad the Bills did not pay him.

[jdaltroy5]

He has been injured more than once.

The guy is injury prone. So glad the Bills did not pay him.
Yeah, with minor stuff. He missed 6 games in 3 years before his injury last year.

So you're glad that we got rid of a 4x time all pro and then had a carousel at the position before finally using a high draft pick to replace him?

Ok then.

[justasportsfan]

Why do you think players consistently want out of Buffalo?


they do? Schobel, Moulds, Evans and recently Kyle Williams and Woods would disagree.
You'll have guys like, McGahee,Peters and Byrd who will want out for their personal reasons and others like Clements and Winfield who will opt out for the highest bidder. Happens to every team.

[jdaltroy5]

they do? Schobel, Moulds, Evans and recently Kyle Williams and Woods would disagree.
You'll have guys like, McGahee,Peters and Byrd who will want out for their personal reasons and others like Clements and Winfield who will opt out for the highest bidder. Happens to every team.
I didn't say EVERY player wants out of Buffalo.

But why do you think it is that we always hear about Buffalo losing players because of contract disputes?

And no, it doesn't happen to "every team." Teams lose players because they don't have the cap room, or maybe a player wants a chance to be a starter, etc...

How many other teams can you think of that consistently lose elite talent while being so far under the cap?

[Oaf]

I just wish Byrd would give Buffalo one more chance. He's a good guy, just play hard one more year, make a ton of money, put some in savings, and see what happens.

[BLeonard]

It was widely reported that he wanted number one money.

I don't defend the Bills FO often, but who's to say that they didn't offer that to him and he still turned it down?

For all you know, the Bills could have offered him $10 million a season... IIRC, when Peters was traded to Philly, he ended up signing a deal that was less than what the Bills were offering...

Again, I don't make a habit of defending the Bills, especially the Front Office, but it's hard to put all the blame on them if we don't even know what it is that they offered.

-Bill

[OpIv37]

I don't understand the bitterness on this. Byrd is a very good player. But he's one player. There's no control over him wanting to be gone. The Bills franchised the guy which is part of the CBA. He's still getting paid a lot of money this year. He's now got a chronic issue with his foot.

So, a guy with a foot problem, who isn't happy here, thinks he's worth more than he is, and wants to be traded won't accept our offer to pay him 7+ mill per year? OK.

Grant his wish and re-invest the money and the new draft pick or player into the team.

If you're bitter because we have to deal with it at all I'd say players may have Eugene Parker as there agent, and we will have players who want to leave some times. Kind of life in the NFL. I don't see it as all the Bills fault or all Byrd's. But sometimes the two sides just don't agree. It's a player we may lose. It happens. And if we get something in return that's better than nothing.

But we again aren't resigning our good young players... Stevie, Wood, Kyle
But we again aren't willing to pay or even overpay to sign players... Mario
But we are getting worse by this loss... Maybe, you'd have to see what we get in return

If we get anything, it will be a pick that won't help this year. We are constant building for a future that never arrives.

And reinvest the money in the team? Please- Ralph will stuff it in his mattress like he always does.

[justasportsfan]

I didn't say EVERY player wants out of Buffalo.

But why do you think it is that we always hear about Buffalo losing players because of contract disputes?

And no, it doesn't happen to "every team." Teams lose players because they don't have the cap room, or maybe a player wants a chance to be a starter, etc...

How many other teams can you think of that consistently lose elite talent while being so far under the cap?

Always? See my last post. Patriots have been known not to give in to players' demands. They even made Welker play his one year contract and he did .

[jdaltroy5]

I don't defend the Bills FO often, but who's to say that they didn't offer that to him and he still turned it down?

For all you know, the Bills could have offered him $10 million a season... IIRC, when Peters was traded to Philly, he ended up signing a deal that was less than what the Bills were offering...

Again, I don't make a habit of defending the Bills, especially the Front Office, but it's hard to put all the blame on them if we don't even know what it is that they offered.

-Bill
From what I heard, they offered around 7.5 million.

If it comes out that they offered him what he was asking and he still said no, then obviously that tells you that he didn't want to play here.

I can't see that being the case though as he played 4 years on 2nd round rookie contract and didn't make a peep about it.

[jdaltroy5]

Always? See my last post. Patriots have been known not to give in to players' demands. They even made Welker play his one year contract and he did .
Yes, we do ALWAYS hear about contract disputes, disgruntled players and the Bills.

The Patriots don't HAVE to give in to player's demands. They have leverage. It's called winning. We don't have that luxury.

[Skooby]

Yes, we do ALWAYS hear about contract disputes, disgruntled players and the Bills.

The Patriots don't HAVE to give in to player's demands. They have leverage. It's called winning. We don't have that luxury.If we pay injured players #1 money, we aren't going to be winning.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Always? See my last post. Patriots have been known not to give in to players' demands. They even made Welker play his one year contract and he did.

Can we please, please stop using Welker as an example? The guy is 32 years old. Byrd is 26.

[BLeonard]

From what I heard, they offered around 7.5 million.

Well, I've heard people say that they saw Elvis Presley in the local shopping mall... Personally, I don't believe everything that I hear.


If it comes out that they offered him what he was asking and he still said no, then obviously that tells you that he didn't want to play here.

What if he was asking for $15 million a season? Would you still be saying "Just pay him"?

This is why I wish that these types of negotiations were made public... It would paint the picture a lot better as to which side is the issue.


I can't see that being the case though as he played 4 years on 2nd round rookie contract and didn't make a peep about it.

Didn't make a peep that you know of... Who knows what was said behind the scenes...?

Regardless, I don't see what a trade does for Byrd this year... Any team he is traded to would have to wait to negotiate a long term deal with him anyway... If Byrd and his agent are trying to negotiate a trade anyway, that tells me that Byrd could very well just not want to be in Buffalo... It's not like he can get paid more this year anywhere else.

-Bill

[OpIv37]

If we pay injured players #1 money, we aren't going to be winning.

Injuries heal. Top safeties don't grow on trees.

Btw I took a LOT of **** from some people here for saying that Byrd wanted out.... Looks like I was right yet again.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What if he was asking for $15 million a season? Would you still be saying "Just pay him"?

Why don't we deal with reality? He wanted to be the top-paid safety. That's roughly 9.25 million.


This is why I wish that these types of negotiations were made public... It would paint the picture a lot better as to which side is the issue.

Public negotiations never work for any field.


Regardless, I don't see what a trade does for Byrd this year... Any team he is traded to would have to wait to negotiate a long term deal with him anyway... If Byrd and his agent are trying to negotiate a trade anyway, that tells me that Byrd could very well just not want to be in Buffalo... It's not like he can get paid more this year anywhere else.

It tells me he doesn't think he'll get paid in Buffalo, which seems plausible, and the relationship has soured.

[justasportsfan]

Can we please, please stop using Welker as an example? The guy is 32 years old. Byrd is 26.

you can argue age but in terms of production, Welker was way up there.

[justasportsfan]

Yes, we do ALWAYS hear about contract disputes, disgruntled players and the Bills.

The Patriots don't HAVE to give in to player's demands. They have leverage. It's called winning. We don't have that luxury.

Stevie, Woods, Schobel, Kyle didn't have contract disputes that I heard of. Eveything went smoothly.

[jimmifli]

It tells me he doesn't think he'll get paid in Buffalo, which seems plausible, and the relationship has soured.

He'll be the highest paid safety in the NFL next season unless the Bills retag. Retagging guarantees he leaves for nothing the following season.

For all the people saying he overplayed his hand etc... He didn't. The Bills overplayed theirs.

[jdaltroy5]

Well, I've heard people say that they saw Elvis Presley in the local shopping mall... Personally, I don't believe everything that I hear.There are multiple very credible sources that have said these things.


What if he was asking for $15 million a season? Would you still be saying "Just pay him"?No, of course not.


This is why I wish that these types of negotiations were made public... It would paint the picture a lot better as to which side is the issue.I think that will just muddle up the negotiations though.


Didn't make a peep that you know of... Who knows what was said behind the scenes...?He didn't hold out. He didn't miss games, practices, OTAs, or training camp. I never once heard of him talk about his contract prior to this season. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't make a peep about it.


Regardless, I don't see what a trade does for Byrd this year... Any team he is traded to would have to wait to negotiate a long term deal with him anyway... If Byrd and his agent are trying to negotiate a trade anyway, that tells me that Byrd could very well just not want to be in Buffalo... It's not like he can get paid more this year anywhere else.I think what happened was that he feels disrespected by the Bills. He feels like he played his heart out on bad teams with new coordinators every year and still managed to rise to the top.

He feels like he should be compensated for it. The Bills didn't feel the same way and now he's mad. I really feel like he's just using this PF as an excuse to not play so he can get a trade.

He knows that he's going to be making his 6.9 mil no matter where he goes, but he just wants out because he feels disrespected. He probably doesn't want to go through the whole thing again next year.

I don't condone what he's doing. He's being paid a lot of money to play for the Bills and he's not. But I understand why he's doing it.

[jdaltroy5]

Stevie, Woods, Schobel, Kyle didn't have contract disputes that I heard of. Eveything went smoothly.
Ok, again, let me re-iterate. Not EVERY player has a contract dispute with Buffalo.

But we seem to have more disgruntled players and contract disputes than any team in the league.

[BLeonard]

Why don't we deal with reality? He wanted to be the top-paid safety. That's roughly 9.25 million.

How do you know that he'd be happy with that? What if he wanted $10 mil? $12 mil?


Public negotiations never work for any field.

Of course not... Because, more often than not, one side would look completely unreasonable. The public not knowing which side that is allows both sides to play the blame game.


It tells me he doesn't think he'll get paid in Buffalo, which seems plausible, and the relationship has soured.

Who's to say he'll get paid by any other team that he's traded to...? They'd have the option of tagging him again, too.

It's not like Byrd can pick and choose where he gets traded to, either... The Bills could send him to Cleveland or Jacksonville.

Not playing due to his "injury" isn't gonna help his cause, either... What team is gonna pay a guy top safety money when he isn't on the field playing?

-Bill

[jdaltroy5]

Not playing due to his "injury" isn't gonna help his cause, either... What team is gonna pay a guy top safety money when he isn't on the field playing?

-BillWe paid Mario top DE money after he missed 3/4 of the season. Someone will pay for him.

[TacklingDummy]

Always thought Byrd was overrated myself.
He caught quite a few lucky tips.
If they can get a 1st rounder for him, do it.

[BLeonard]

I think what happened was that he feels disrespected by the Bills. He feels like he played his heart out on bad teams with new coordinators every year and still managed to rise to the top. He feels like he should be compensated for it. The Bills didn't feel the same way and now he's mad.

He was compensated... He's making the average of the top 5 safety salaries in the NFL. He's the one that signed the tag.


I really feel like he's just using this PF as an excuse to not play so he can get a trade.

So, why would any other team want to trade for him? What if he gets unhappy there? Is his PF gonna "flare up" again?


He knows that he's going to be making his 6.9 mil no matter where he goes, but he just wants out because he feels disrespected. He probably doesn't want to go through the whole thing again next year.

Even if he's traded, that team would have the ability to tag him again next year if they wanted to... Doesn't get him out of the possibility of being tagged again.



I don't condone what he's doing. He's being paid a lot of money to play for the Bills and he's not. But I understand why he's doing it.

I don't see how sitting out, citing a foot injury is going to help him get what he wants, personally. Especially if he's using it as an excuse not to play, as you suspect. Any team wanting to trade for him is gonna wanna see that he's 100% and confident that he's not gonna pull this type of stuff again.

-Bill

[jimmifli]

Ok, again, let me re-iterate. Not EVERY player has a contract dispute with Buffalo.

But we seem to have more disgruntled players and contract disputes than any team in the league.
I don't even know if that's true, but we have way more problems than other teams that have $20+ million in cap space. I'm ****ing tired of every contract negotiation ending up like this:
http://i.imgur.com/8k74x.gif

[BLeonard]

We paid Mario top DE money after he missed 3/4 of the season. Someone will pay for him.

Torn pectoral is a bit different that a foot injury that can "flare up" whenever the player isn't happy with his contract...

-Bill

[jdaltroy5]

He was compensated... He's making the average of the top 5 safety salaries in the NFL. He's the one that signed the tag.Yes and he was compensated about 2.5 million less than he expected to be. Whether or not we think it's fair is irrelevant.


So, why would any other team want to trade for him? What if he gets unhappy there? Is his PF gonna "flare up" again?Happens all the time man. Look at Lynch, Peters, even Carson Palmer and Brett Favre.


Even if he's traded, that team would have the ability to tag him again next year if they wanted to... Doesn't get him out of the possibility of being tagged again.But a team wouldn't want to tag him and he wouldn't want to be tagged. They'll just give him what he wants.


I don't see how sitting out, citing a foot injury is going to help him get what he wants, personally. Especially if he's using it as an excuse not to play, as you suspect. Any team wanting to trade for him is gonna wanna see that he's 100% and confident that he's not gonna pull this type of stuff again.That's what a physical is for.

[jimmifli]

Even if he's traded, that team would have the ability to tag him again next year if they wanted to... Doesn't get him out of the possibility of being tagged again.

No team is going to trade for him without working out a deal ahead of time. They know what he wants.

But even if he was tagged again, he gets a 20% raise putting him pretty close to what he was asking for. All guaranteed money.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How do you know that he'd be happy with that? What if he wanted $10 mil? $12 mil?

What if he wanted twenty million? ?? Fifty million? All the millions? !?

Come on now.




Of course not... Because, more often than not, one side would look completely unreasonable. The public not knowing which side that is allows both sides to play the blame game.

It would mean even more posturing and less negotiating. Yes, even more than now.




Who's to say he'll get paid by any other team that he's traded to...? They'd have the option of tagging him again, too.

It's not like Byrd can pick and choose where he gets traded to, either... The Bills could send him to Cleveland or Jacksonville.

Not playing due to his "injury" isn't gonna help his cause, either... What team is gonna pay a guy top safety money when he isn't on the field playing?

-BillWhat kind of idiot team would trade for him and NOT pay him?

[kishoph]

Again, what are you basing that on? His INT numbers?

Let me reiterate. Pro Football Focus, the website that watches every snap of every player in every game ranked his 2011 season as the 15th best season of ANY FS in the last 5 years. BTW, they ranked his 2012 season as the 3rd best season of ANY FS in the last 5 years.

He was not "below average" in 2010, he just didn't have the same INT numbers because teams stopped throwing in his direction.

In 2010 he didn't have the same interception numbers because the defense was changed and he was no longer able to stand back there to pick off errant passes and deflections. I'm not basing my thoughts on Byrd on any stats, I base them on watching him for 4 years and seeing the numerous times he was late to cover or all the times I've seen him taking a bad angle on a run. I'm not saying this because I'm unhappy with what has gone on this season, I posted last pre-season that I thought he was overrated, fortunately he proved me wrong last year and had a very good year, but I believe that's the only year where he could be considered a "top safety."

[GingerP]

He isn't getting traded. No team is going to give up high compensation when he can't sign a contract until after the season. Bills would never trade him at a discount.

[Jaybird]

He isn't getting traded. No team is going to give up high compensation when he can't sign a contract until after the season. Bills would never trade him at a discount.

good point and very true... not to mention currently is dealing with an injury

[trapezeus]

It does show how little the front office helps a new coach out.

if it was chan again, yeah, play hardball with byrd.
but new coach, ****ing get keep the best players you've got and then draft who he wants. and let the mckelvins go by the wasteside. instead, they've just taken his two all star players out of the fold and asked for him to do better.

and what really pisses me off is
1. the AFC EAst is so weak this year, it could be ripe for the taking
2. IF you make marrone suffer through 1-2 years of bad years when it was potentially unnecessary, you are starting the fan base to be disillusioned with the team like nothing changed. you have players who have known nothing but losing. if you could come out of the gates swinging, the organization, the players and the fans will automatically know that there is a different beat to dance to.

Regardless of who you back, Russ Brandon and the merry men of idiots have screwed this up again leaving yet another coach high and dry and asked to pull the playoffs out of his arse with no depth, no stars and no proven players at key positions.

And you know....you just know that hte bills will winn 6 games this year resulting in yet another reach for a player in the 8 slot instead of getting an excellent player in the #1 slot and having a handful of no brainer picks.

As long as Russ and littman stay, these are the exact squabbles we are going to have. a penny pincher who doesnt want to pay and a marketer who knows nothing about football.

[BLeonard]

Yes and he was compensated about 2.5 million less than he expected to be. Whether or not we think it's fair is irrelevant.

He knew that there was a good chance that, if an agreement was not reached, he'd be paid the price of the tag.



Happens all the time man. Look at Lynch, Peters, even Carson Palmer and Brett Favre.

Fine. Then, he'd be that team's problem. I certainly wouldn't be paying a guy that has now shown that he'll just act hurt when he doesn't get his way.


But a team wouldn't want to tag him and he wouldn't want to be tagged. They'll just give him what he wants.

There's that "just give him what he wants" again. Nobody on this board knows what he wants. It's easy to say that now, but if he wants something completely unreasonable, most people's minds change pretty quickly.


That's what a physical is for.

He passed the Bills physical too...

-Bill

[BLeonard]

No team is going to trade for him without working out a deal ahead of time. They know what he wants.

They can't work out a deal ahead of time, due to the rules of the Franchise Tag. They might agree in principle, but that all changes if Byrd gets hurt, has a bad year, etc. It would also likely change if Byrd exceeds expectations.

"Working out a deal" now isn't worth the paper it's written on, as many variables will play into his 2014 value.


But even if he was tagged again, he gets a 20% raise putting him pretty close to what he was asking for. All guaranteed money.

Again, you, nor anyone else on this board, knows what he was asking for. Reports don't mean jack.

-Bill

[BillsFever21]

For whatever reasons it's obvious he doesn't want to be here. The Bills should've known that long before the season started when we couldn't re-sign him and we could've received a decent draft pick out of him. If we trade him during the season then we wouldn't get much at all.

Had we traded him earlier we could've easily received a 2nd round draft pick. Now we would be lucky to get a 3rd since everyone in the league now knows how much bitterness there is between him and the Bills. Not to mention it would be weeks before he would be up to speed with his new team. They would be making an investment beyond this season instead of trying to build a piece of their team for a run this year and beyond. Plus they couldn't sign him long-term at this point which would hurt his trade value. Had they traded him before that window was up then we could've received much more for him.

It's obvious he's not re-signing here after the season. If somebody offers us a 3rd round pick with a conditional pick if they can re-sign him after the season then I would jump on it at this moment. If not then tag him again next year and trade him before the draft. It should've never came to this point. Both sides are at fault but the Bills should've been more competent in handling the negotiations and what their plan would be if they couldn't re-sign him.

[BLeonard]

What if he wanted twenty million? ?? Fifty million? All the millions? !?
Come on now.

Again, it's easy to say "just pay him" when you don't know what he's wanting. My guess is, there's a number out there that, if that's what he was asking for, you would stop saying "just pay him."

I do find it funny that you apparently think that there's no possible way he could have been looking for $10 million a year, but are happy paying him $9.5 million a year.



What kind of idiot team would trade for him and NOT pay him?

So, if a team trades for him this year and he suffers a season ending injury, do you honestly think that that wouldn't change the team's offer?

Conversely, if a team trades for him this year and Byrd exceeds expectations, you think that he'll be anting to settle for what he was asking for at the start of the season?

Remember, due to signing the franchise tag, the Bills can't negotiate a new contract until after the 2013 season. That also applies to his new team if he is traded while playing under the tag.

If Byrd wanted a trade, they should have been doing that well before now...

-Bill

[jimmifli]

Again, you, nor anyone else on this board, knows what he was asking for. Reports don't mean jack.

I know the current Bills front office has a history of botched negotiations. I know the team has a long history of spending less than the cap. IT doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out the Bills have their own internal budget that is less than the cap and they couldn't afford Byrd's and Levitre's demands.

Blaming the players for wanting a market deal when the team is unwilling to pay market prices is stupid. You can cling to the hope that maybe it was Byrd's fault, that maybe he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL. Personally, I think the evidence strongly points to some guy having a nap in Detroit.

[trapezeus]

he will sign whereever the money is the most. they know that a better deal could have been had if they didn't get tagged. but what they aren't doing well is making byrd seem like a sympathetic figure. i get that he can't play in OTA, camp, preseason. But how is a prospective team supposed to look at this? Oh a guy who didn't make an effort, has an injury keeping him out and possibly received a fairly meaty offer that he turned down. he doesn't know our scheme, hasn't been in the TC for us, and wants a long term offer?

What would that team give up? if i was the GM of that team, i'd put out a cursory offer, but nothing substantial. i can't run the risk of my decent team that i build on draft talent and resigning them to a guy with a couple issues and give up a pick for them and a bunch of guaranteed money for a guy who's got some issues.

that leaves the bills with very little to obtain.

[BLeonard]

I know the current Bills front office has a history of botched negotiations. I know the team has a long history of spending less than the cap. IT doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out the Bills have their own internal budget that is less than the cap and they couldn't afford Byrd's and Levitre's demands.

Don't disagree with any of this. But, in Levitre's case, many people saw the numbers and said "He's not worth that much." How do we know that Byrd's number isn't in the stratosphere as well?


Blaming the players for wanting a market deal when the team is unwilling to pay market prices is stupid. You can cling to the hope that maybe it was Byrd's fault, that maybe he wants to be the highest paid player in the NFL. Personally, I think the evidence strongly points to some guy having a nap in Detroit.

Again, I'm not one to defend the Front Office. You may very well be right and it wouldn't surprise me one bit. All's I'm saying is, until we 100% for sure know what Byrd feels is a "market deal," I'm not gonna pin blame on either side.

Many were quick to blame the Bills Front Office for Levitre leaving... Until they saw the contract numbers.

If Byrd goes somewhere else and signs a deal for $8 mil a year, I'd agree that the blame probably lies with the Bills. But, if he signs a deal for $10 mil a year, my guess is, many people that are complaining right now would be the same ones saying "he wasn't worth that much."

-Bill

[jimmifli]

Don't disagree with any of this. But, in Levitre's case, many people saw the numbers and said "He's not worth that much." How do we know that Byrd's number isn't in the stratosphere as well?



Again, I'm not one to defend the Front Office. You may very well be right and it wouldn't surprise me one bit. All's I'm saying is, until we 100% for sure know what Byrd feels is a "market deal," I'm not gonna pin blame on either side.

Many were quick to blame the Bills Front Office for Levitre leaving... Until they saw the contract numbers.

If Byrd goes somewhere else and signs a deal for $8 mil a year, I'd agree that the blame probably lies with the Bills. But, if he signs a deal for $10 mil a year, my guess is, many people that are complaining right now would be the same ones saying "he wasn't worth that much."

-Bill
We have more than enough cap space for Andy's contract and for Byrd to be the highest paid safety in the NFL. We would be a better team today if those things happened. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

If we had paid Andy, everyone's reaction would be like the reaction to Wood's deal. For reasons I really can't understand, people feel a need to agree with team decisions.

[OpIv37]

We have more than enough cap space for Andy's contract and for Byrd to be the highest paid safety in the NFL. We would be a better team today if those things happened. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

If we had paid Andy, everyone's reaction would be like the reaction to Wood's deal. For reasons I really can't understand, people feel a need to agree with team decisions.
well why would you disagree with anything this team does? I mean, you see how successful they've been.....

[EDS]

Byrd according to Marrone:

"From my standpoint as a head coach, he's out here working. He's been working like heck on the field. He knows what we're doing defensively. He's been a great teammate. He's been a great pro," Marrone said. "That's what I evaluate it on. How he's doing for us in the locker room, on the field. I have zero complaints with what he's doing."

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/496/marrone-zero-complaints-about-byrd

[jimmifli]

Byrd according to Marrone:

"From my standpoint as a head coach, he's out here working. He's been working like heck on the field. He knows what we're doing defensively. He's been a great teammate. He's been a great pro," Marrone said. "That's what I evaluate it on. How he's doing for us in the locker room, on the field. I have zero complaints with what he's doing."

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/496/marrone-zero-complaints-about-byrd

Marrone seems like a straight shooter. I wonder how he feels about potentially losing his two probowl players?

Chan never complained about getting QB ****ed by Nix (other than benching TJax). Marrone doesn't strike me as a guy that will shut up and take it if the front office keeps ****ing up his team.

[EDS]

Marrone seems like a straight shooter. I wonder how he feels about potentially losing his two probowl players?

Chan never complained about getting QB ****ed by Nix (other than benching TJax). Marrone doesn't strike me as a guy that will shut up and take it if the front office keeps ****ing up his team.

Wonder what all the fanboys who have opined as to Byrd being a bad seed and wanting to see him go are going to say now? I guess some people's opinions can shift faster than the wind direction.

[BLeonard]

If we had paid Andy, everyone's reaction would be like the reaction to Wood's deal. For reasons I really can't understand, people feel a need to agree with team decisions.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm not necessarily agreeing with the Bills on the Byrd situation here. Byrd's also not helping himself (at least in my eyes) if he's trying to use this foot "injury" as a way to collect a paycheck without playing, or to force a trade.

There's many things I don't agree with the Bills front office on... I just don't think the situation with Byrd should be all on them, especially if Byrd is using this foot "injury" to leverage a trade, after he signed the tender agreeing to play for the franchise amount.

-Bill

[trapezeus]

Wonder what all the fanboys who have opined as to Byrd being a bad seed and wanting to see him go are going to say now? I guess some people's opinions can shift faster than the wind direction.

if you are trying to sell something, you normally don't point out all the warts. "This car performs great. gets me to point a to point b with little worry."
you don't say, "it takes about 30 minutes to get the engine to turn over. I'd like top dollar for this sale"

[BertSquirtgum]

So he doesn't meet your completely subjective and arbitrary meaning of elite, so he shouldn't be paid.

Makes sense.

Hey Eugene. We get it. You want your client to be overpaid by the Bills.

[Mr. Pink]

He plays a game for a living. His ego has cost him millions, his agent has cost him more. At this point I am all set with Byrd. He wants to be paid as the best safety, whatever. He's not leading this team right now and we already have a ton of cash tied up in a player who doesn't want to lead.

He's setting a ridiculous example for the young players on this team, ship him out for fair compensation or let him sit and "heal". But do not cave to Parker.

Not even close.

IF, that's a big IF, he were to enter the open market after this season he will be the top paid safety in the NFL.

Thereby getting him many more millions of dollars and much more guaranteed.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I'm not necessarily agreeing with the Bills on the Byrd situation here. Byrd's also not helping himself (at least in my eyes) if he's trying to use this foot "injury" as a way to collect a paycheck without playing, or to force a trade.

There's many things I don't agree with the Bills front office on... I just don't think the situation with Byrd should be all on them, especially if Byrd is using this foot "injury" to leverage a trade, after he signed the tender agreeing to play for the franchise amount.

-Bill

He won't be traded.

He's trying to burn bridges within the organization to avoid being tagged again.

He's a player in his prime who wants between 20-25 million dollars guaranteed.

[justasportsfan]

Can we please, please stop using Welker as an example? The guy is 32 years old. Byrd is 26.

looks like one is still in his prime at 32

[IlluminatusUIUC]

looks like one is still in his prime at 32

I never said he wasn't, but he's in the way out of it. That's why you wouldn't give Welker s top flight contract. And they didn't. Two years, twelve million? That's nothing.

[justasportsfan]

I never said he wasn't, but he's in the way out of it. That's why you wouldn't give Welker s top flight contract. And they didn't. Two years, twelve million? That's nothing.

let Byrd play under the new system and if flourishes with probowl performance, I say give him no.1 salary. For now, he needs to stop pouting and handle his situation like a pro.

[jdaltroy5]

let Byrd play under the new system and if flourishes with probowl performance, I say give him no.1 salary. For now, he needs to stop pouting and handle his situation like a pro.
The guy has already played in three different systems for three different coordinators.

Is the 4th one really going to prove it to you?

[justasportsfan]

The guy has already played in three different systems for three different coordinators.

Is the 4th one really going to prove it to you?

For no.1 safety salary, yes.

[jdaltroy5]

For no.1 safety salary, yes.
Sweet strategy.

He's going to be proving it for another team now.

[Bill Cody]

Sweet strategy.

He's going to be proving it for another team now.


I don't know. That planter fasciitis can be a real problem

[justasportsfan]

Sweet strategy.

He's going to be proving it for another team now.


he asked for this when he made his demands. Oh well. If he leaves,so be it. Don't want players who don't want to be here anyways.

[JoeMama]

Sweet strategy.

He's going to be proving it for another team now.

The fanboys seem more concerned with Ralph Wilson's wallet than building (& retaining) a roster with first-rate talent.

What a strange paradox. To love a bad team but and simultaneously be so resentful whenever a guy is due for a raise. Especially when re-signing said guy would result in us being a BETTER team.

[justasportsfan]

The fanboys seem more concerned with Ralph Wilson's wallet than building (& retaining) a roster with first-rate talent.

What a strange paradox. To love a bad team but and simultaneously be so resentful whenever a guy is due for a raise. Especially when re-signing said guy would result in us being a BETTER team.
he was getting a raise but when he decided he wanted to be paid like he was the best, he'd have to wait one more year to prove it under the new system. I can understand both sides.

[jdaltroy5]

he asked for this when he made his demands. Oh well. If he leaves,so be it. Don't want players who don't want to be here anyways.
If you only want players that want to be here and you want perfect value for every player, then the roster is going to be pretty thin.

Let me ask you, what did you think of the Eric Wood signing?

[jdaltroy5]

The fanboys seem more concerned with Ralph Wilson's wallet than building (& retaining) a roster with first-rate talent.

What a strange paradox. To love a bad team but and simultaneously be so resentful whenever a guy is due for a raise. Especially when re-signing said guy would result in us being a BETTER team.

Yeah, I don't really get it either.

They either think they get a cut of the remaining cap space or they're hoping that Tom Brady is going to be put on waivers. We'd better have the cap space just in case.

[justasportsfan]

If you only want players that want to be here and you want perfect value for every player, then the roster is going to be pretty thin.the flipside is that if you give in to everyplayer that wants to be paid the best player then you put yourself in a hole.


Let me ask you, what did you think of the Eric Wood signing? I like it. Both sides happy and we're solidifying the OL where it all starts.

[Bill Cody]

The fanboys seem more concerned with Ralph Wilson's wallet than building (& retaining) a roster with first-rate talent.

What a strange paradox. To love a bad team but and simultaneously be so resentful whenever a guy is due for a raise. Especially when re-signing said guy would result in us being a BETTER team.

lol

[jdaltroy5]

the flipside is that if you give in to everyplayer that wants to be paid the best player then you put yourself in a hole. No, you don't have to give in to every player. You should give in to good players when you don't have a lot of them.


I like it. Both sides happy and we're solidifying the OL where it all starts.But Wood is now the 4th highest paid Center in the league. He's not the 4th best Center. Don't you think that is crap value?

[Bill Cody]

If you only want players that want to be here and you want perfect value for every player, then the roster is going to be pretty thin.



I'm a fan so yeah I want players that want to be here call me crazy

Maybe there's a balance somewhere between perfect value and blank check? Or no? Some folks on this board's default poisition is if a negotiation fails, no matter what the circumstances, it's the front office's fault.

[justasportsfan]

No, you don't have to give in to every player. You should give in to good players when you don't have a lot of them.but thats the thing though, it's anew system. Buscaglia alluded yesterday that the bills most likely wanted to see how he would do under the new system before committing to give him what he wanted. I don't blame them because they might be stuck with a Mario situation where he too might not be worth the 100 million under Pettines system.


But Wood is now the 4th highest paid Center in the league. He's not the 4th best Center. Don't you think that is crap value? In this case yes. Only reason why Wood isn't one of the best is due to injuries. I am all for solidifying from the inside out. This means, OL/DL first.

trenches as opposed to safety.

[jdaltroy5]

but thats the thing though, it's anew system. Buscaglia alluded yesterday that the bills most likely wanted to see how he would do under the new system before committing to give him what he wanted. I don't blame them because they might be stuck with a Mario situation where he too might not be worth the 100 million under Pettines system. You know what? If that's the case, then Pettine is an idiot. You plan AROUND your most talented players. If you can't take advantage of having Mario Williams and Jairus Byrd on your defense, you don't belong in the NFL.


In this case yes. Only reason why Wood isn't one of the best is due to injuries. I am all for solidifying from the inside out. This means, OL/DL first.It doesn't matter WHY he's not the 4th best, the fact of the matter is that he is absolutely not the 4th best Center in the league and he is being paid like he is. You guys are all complaining about the fact that Jairus Byrd isn't the best FS in the league so he shouldn't be paid like he is the best. But it's no problem for you guys that Wood is the 4th highest paid C, despite being borderline top ten.

[better days]

If you only want players that want to be here and you want perfect value for every player, then the roster is going to be pretty thin.

Let me ask you, what did you think of the Eric Wood signing?

If a player does not want to be in Buffalo, how are you supposed to keep them in Buffalo? And why would you want to?

I don't want a roster of McGahee's that hate Buffalo. There are plenty of GOOD players that would be happy to play in Buffalo.

[justasportsfan]

You know what? If that's the case, then Pettine is an idiot. You plan AROUND your most talented players. If you can't take advantage of having Mario Williams and Jairus Byrd on your defense, you don't belong in the NFL. but Byrd was not his player yet until he signed the contract. Byrd was not on the field all offseason. It's very seldom that a new head coach will commit to player in his first year especially one he hasn't seen up close.

I'm pretty sure than Marrone gave the ok for Wood after he's seen him first hand.


It doesn't matter WHY he's not the 4th best, the fact of the matter is that he is absolutely not the 4th best Center in the league and he is being paid like he is. You guys are all complaining about the fact that Jairus Byrd isn't the best FS in the league so he shouldn't be paid like he is the best. But it's no problem for you guys that Wood is the 4th highest paid C, despite being borderline top ten.
I value Kent Hull more than any safety the bills had in the 90's.

[jdaltroy5]

I'm a fan so yeah I want players that want to be here call me crazyThis is a business. These players want to be here because they are getting paid to be here. If every player in the NFL suddenly became a free agent and could play for any team they wanted, the Bills would be very low on people's list of places to play.

A team has to offer SOMETHING to attract a player. You can play in Pittsburgh, New England, Baltimore, or Green Bay and get a shot at the Super Bowl every year. You can play in San Fran, Seattle, or Indy and try to build a contender for awhile. You can play in New York, Dallas, or Chicago and get a lot of National exposure. You can play in Miami, Oakland, or San Diego where the weather is always nice. Or you can play in Buffalo, where we have a new coaching staff every three years, the owner is a notorious cheapskate, our claim to fame is losing the Super Bowl 4 times in a row 20 years ago, and the majority of fans are there so they can get blasted in public on a Sunday afternoon.

We HAVE to offer a good player more money to play here. They aren't going to play here out of the goodness of their heart.


Maybe there's a balance somewhere between perfect value and blank check? Or no? Some folks on this board's default poisition is if a negotiation fails, no matter what the circumstances, it's the front office's fault.No, it's not always the front office's fault. But I've seen such a dearth of talent leave OBD that it makes me sick to realize we're going to lose two of our best young players because we didn't want to pay either of them.

What's the point of drafting good players if you're just going to watch them leave?

[jdaltroy5]

but Byrd was not his player yet until he signed the contract. Byrd was not on the field all offseason.Yeah and he wasn't on the field because he didn't get paid.


It's very seldom that a new head coach will commit to player in his first year especially one he hasn't seen up close. What? Now you're just grasping at straws. They had 4 years of game tape on Byrd. They can see how talented he is. ESPECIALLY since Pettine has played against him 8 times in the last 4 years. Do you think Marrone and Pettine DON'T want Byrd on the field? "No, it's ok guys. We don't want that ball hawking pro bowler. I think we're just as comfortable trotting out the failed CB who has never played Safety." Coaches WANT the most talented players they can get. It's up to the GM to provide that for them while also being fiscally responsible.


I'm pretty sure than Marrone gave the ok for Wood after he's seen him first hand.I'm pretty sure you just made that up.


I value Kent Hull more than any safety the bills had in the 90's.And Kent Hull was probably more important than any safety the Bills had in the 90s. That's still not my point though.

Wood is the 4th highest paid C in the NFL and he's not the 4th best. You guys that are obsessed with value don't have a problem with that for some reason. Why did he get 6.35 million? He's worth 5.5 million at best? If he demanded a penny more than that, I would trade his whiny ass.

[JoeMama]

he was getting a raise but when he decided he wanted to be paid like he was the best, he'd have to wait one more year to prove it under the new system. I can understand both sides.

Not me.

Byrd has already established that he's a difference maker. So let's move past that phase of the argument because it's moot.

The timing and availability of top tier talent dictates price. The premium (or discount) on the position dictates price. The annual cap expansion drives prices up as players demand more $ to maintain their % of the windfall. All these things matter.

BTW... Do you know which QB has the highest average salary?

Joe Flacco.

I think most fans agree he's not the best QB in the game.

But that's how FA routinely works.

The highest paid player at any given position tends to be the high profile FA who signed his deal most recently. So you can scrap the concept of "fairness" when you determine a player's immediate value.

It's not inherent in the system that each player gets paid exactly what they deserve. As in what their positional ranking is; like #1 gets #1 money, #2 gets #2 money, etc etc.

The bottom line is, we need more talent. We need to compensate guys a little extra to play for an undesirable franchise. We need to make it a habit to resign our own.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah and he wasn't on the field because he didn't get paid.
he wasn't getting paid what he thought he should get paid.

What? Now you're just grasping at straws. They had 4 years of game tape on Byrd. They can see how talented he is. ESPECIALLY since Pettine has played against him 8 times in the last 4 years. Do you think Marrone and Pettine DON'T want Byrd on the field? "No, it's ok guys. We don't want that ball hawking pro bowler. I think we're just as comfortable trotting out the failed CB who has never played Safety." Coaches WANT the most talented players they can get. It's up to the GM to provide that for them while also being fiscally responsible.


maybe the game tape wasn't enough. The best player they saw on game tape was Alex Carrington according to Pettine and Carrington was one of the best as camp as well.




I'm pretty sure you just made that up.I'm definitely assuming but it makes sense. Marrone himself was coaching the OL at camp and saw Wood first hand.



And Kent Hull was probably more important than any safety the Bills had in the 90s. That's still not my point though.

Wood is the 4th highest paid C in the NFL and he's not the 4th best. You guys that are obsessed with value don't have a problem with that for some reason. Why did he get 6.35 million? He's worth 5.5 million at best? If he demanded a penny more than that, I would trade his whiny ass. my point is that we have a rookie qb and that makes Wood more valuable than a safety and most likely had to overpay to make sure he stays.

My argument remains, I wanted Byrd paid but since he asked to be paid like he was the best even though it's arguable, then he has to prove it under a new system. I'm okay with that.

[EDS]

Not me.

Byrd has already established that he's a difference maker. So let's move past that phase of the argument because it's moot.

The timing and availability of top tier talent dictates price. The premium (or discount) on the position dictates price. The annual cap expansion drives prices up as players demand more $ to maintain their % of the windfall. All these things matter.

BTW... Do you know which QB has the highest average salary?

Joe Flacco.

I think most fans agree he's not the best QB in the game.

But that's how FA routinely works.

The highest paid player at any given position tends to be the high profile FA who signed his deal most recently. So you can scrap the concept of "fairness" when you determine a player's immediate value.

It's not inherent in the system that each player gets paid exactly what they deserve. As in what their positional ranking is; like #1 gets #1 money, #2 gets #2 money, etc etc.

The bottom line is, we need more talent. We need to compensate guys a little extra to play for an undesirable franchise. We need to make it a habit to resign our own.

Agree with a caveat: Pay for your best but hold the line on mid-tier talent that can be readily replaced. Plenty of examples of the Bills blowing their wad on easily replaceable players (e.g., Kelsay, Fitz, McKelvin, Smith, Anderson, Lawson, etc.).

Also, Mario Williams is not one o the top 10 defensive players in the NFL but he is paid like it. How do the Fanboys reconcile this seemingly incongruent approach by the Bills front office? Also remind me again why I should trust anything the Bills front office has done based on its "storied" track record.

[trapezeus]

the flipside is that if you give in to everyplayer that wants to be paid the best player then you put yourself in a hole.

I like it. Both sides happy and we're solidifying the OL where it all starts.

Like when you pay chris kelsay and fitz anything other than the league minimum after years of average play. what do you think a guy like byrd who is in the top 5 going to think he deserves. if kelsay gets 24mm and fitz gets 59MM, byrd should be getting like 300MM for the life of the contract.

[jdaltroy5]

maybe the game tape wasn't enough. The best player they saw on game tape was Alex Carrington according to Pettine and Carrington was one of the best as camp as well.
Really? The best player they saw on tape was Carrington? Ho boy, we're in trouble if Pettine thinks Carrington is our best player.


I'm definitely assuming but it makes sense. Marrone himself was coaching the OL at camp and saw Wood first hand. So they would not have extended him had Marrone not seen him in Training Camp?


my point is that we have a rookie qb and that makes Wood more valuable than a safety and most likely had to overpay to make sure he stays. So if Wood is more important, then do think Byrd should make LESS money than Wood?


My argument remains, I wanted Byrd paid but since he asked to be paid like he was the best even though it's arguable, then he has to prove it under a new system. I'm okay with that.But what you're not realizing is that this whole "I want him to prove it" mantra REALLY pissed Byrd off. He even mentioned that in his press conference. It pissed him off to the point that he may never play in Buffalo again.

It was the strategy the Bills tried and clearly it didn't work.

[justasportsfan]

Really? The best player they saw on tape was Carrington? Ho boy, we're in trouble if Pettine thinks Carrington is our best player. I only brought up Carrington because you brought up the tape on Byrd and Pettine talked about Carrington on tape and camp. Maybe if Byrd showed up for camp he could have furthered his cause.


So they would not have extended him had Marrone not seen him in Training Camp?.I don't know , I'm just saying it gave the coaches a better look up close.



So if Wood is more important, then do think Byrd should make LESS money than Wood?No. He just has to prove it under the knew system to get no.1


But what you're not realizing is that this whole "I want him to prove it" mantra REALLY pissed Byrd off. He even mentioned that in his press conference. It pissed him off to the point that he may never play in Buffalo again.

It was the strategy the Bills tried and clearly it didn't work.I don't care if he got pissed off. He should get pissed off at the players union that agreed to keep the franchise tag and whatever comes with it.

[justasportsfan]

Like when you pay chris kelsay and fitz anything other than the league minimum after years of average play. what do you think a guy like byrd who is in the top 5 going to think he deserves. if kelsay gets 24mm and fitz gets 59MM, byrd should be getting like 300MM for the life of the contract.

IMO, both Fitz and Kelsay were paid based on the coaches input. We pretty much know how Chan felt about Fitz so Nix followed through.

[jdaltroy5]

I only brought up Carrington because you brought up the tape on Byrd and Pettine talked about Carrington on tape and camp. Maybe if Byrd showed up for camp he could have furthered his cause.But he can't show up to camp without a contract.


No. He just has to prove it under the knew system to get no.1But if Wood is more important, why would Byrd make more money? You pay people in order of importance.


I don't care if he got pissed off. He should get pissed off at the players union that agreed to keep the franchise tag and whatever comes with it.Yes, but he didn't break any rules either. It's not like he signed the franchise tag and then held out. As soon as he signed the tag, he showed up for camp. There is no deadline to sign the franchise tag.

The Bills exercised their right to use the franchise tag on him and he exercised his right to not sign it.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm a fan so yeah I want players that want to be here call me crazy

Maybe there's a balance somewhere between perfect value and blank check? Or no? Some folks on this board's default poisition is if a negotiation fails, no matter what the circumstances, it's the front office's fault.

There is a balance and we've been trying to say that for months now. Pay your elite talent now and worry about losing marginal talent later. People are panicked to sign Byrd because we might lose Carrington, Dareus, and Spiller? Carrington hasn't proved anything, Dareus has a lot to prove to justify a top shelf contract, and Spiller isn't a FA for three years.

Letting current talent walk to avoid losing hypothetical future talent is silly. We have numerous examples of players we thought would develop into elite players who failed to. Meanwhile we already HAVE an elite player AND the space to sign him and we ****** it up.

[lightningbolt444]

But he can't show up to camp without a contract.

But if Wood is more important, why would Byrd make more money? You pay people in order of importance.

Yes, but he didn't break any rules either. It's not like he signed the franchise tag and then held out. As soon as he signed the tag, he showed up for camp. There is no deadline to sign the franchise tag.

The Bills exercised their right to use the franchise tag on him and he exercised his right to not sign it.


I am curious if your view changes at all on this injury that is not serious at all after he is now doubtful for sundays game because of it? Does that sound like nothing still and he should still get #1 money?

[jdaltroy5]

I am curious if your view changes at all on this injury that is not serious at all after he is now doubtful for sundays game because of it? Does that sound like nothing still and he should still get #1 money?
If the injury is the same injury that he had last year and he doesn't play, it will piss me off. I'm sure most of you guys are in the same boat.

That doesn't mean that I want him gone or don't think we should pay him.

I'm not going to demand a trade of one of our best players because he's pissed off at the team for lowballing him.

As fans, we should want the most talented players possible.

[Meathead]

personally i believe its quite fair that the team that developed you expects a hometown discount. if you pay every good player that comes up on free agency the same as theyd get from another team that didnt invest then youll run your team into the ground that way too

the bills have made the determination that byrd just isnt worth top safety in the league money. the fact that they were ready to pay him top five which probably means third highest is very signficant, he should have jumped at that. he didnt and now hes realizing the enormous downside to his gamble

bills are in a good position on him now. that could change either way depending on how their starting baby safeties go. but byrd had that big cash right there in the palm of his hand, and now its come back to take two big bites out of his own ass

remember what they say: a bill in the hand is worth two byrds in the tush

wow that was bad

[kingJofNYC]

Amazing how this org gets people to turn on the team's best players right before they're shipped off.

[X-Era]

personally i believe its quite fair that the team that developed you expects a hometown discount. if you pay every good player that comes up on free agency the same as theyd get from another team that didnt invest then youll run your team into the ground that way too

the bills have made the determination that byrd just isnt worth top safety in the league money. the fact that they were ready to pay him top five which probably means third highest is very signficant, he should have jumped at that. he didnt and now hes realizing the enormous downside to his gamble

bills are in a good position on him now. that could change either way depending on how their starting baby safeties go. but byrd had that big cash right there in the palm of his hand, and now its come back to take two big bites out of his own ass

remember what they say: a bill in the hand is worth two byrds in the tush

wow that was bad

Don't agree man.

This sets up the Bills to find an excuse to not pay competitive rates. If a player chooses to give a discount to the team great. Brady has done this for years. But the Bills cannot expect it. Now saying that it also implies that Byrd will get a bigger offer elsewhere. If he does, we screwed up by not accurately gauging his worth.

I've said it over and over. The Bills don't set the prices in the market, the other 31 teams do.

At this point though I think the Bills may be better served to trade him, re-invest the money, and get a player or pick(s) in the process.

[X-Era]

Amazing how this org gets people to turn on the team's best players right before they're shipped off.BS.

Byrd's attitude is not good at this point. It's an all-new team and we don't need it. If he came out and was telling everyone that he's excited for what the Bills can do this season and he can't wait to play with HIS team I'd feel differently.

Instead he held out, brings a callous approach to the team, and is not showing much interest or excitement at all in being a Bill for the future or even now. Whether it's justified or not he's no longer good for this new team.

And that's really where this story ends. Time for change.

If the Bills can somehow fix it and get him back to being all about HIS Bills and being a positive leader on the team, great let's do it. But I don't see that happening.

[Skooby]

BS.

Byrd's attitude is not good at this point. It's an all-new team and we don't need it. If he came out and was telling everyone that he's excited for what the Bills can do this season and he can't wait to play with HIS team I'd feel differently.

Instead he held out, brings a callous approach to the team, and is not showing much interest or excitement at all in being a Bill for the future or even now. Whether it's justified or not he's no longer good for this new team.

And that's really where this story ends. Time for change.

If the Bills can somehow fix it and get him back to being all about HIS Bills and being a positive leader on the team, great let's do it. But I don't see that happening.

After seeing how horribly the defense played with him out there, you'd think he'd want to turn it around.

[X-Era]

After seeing how horribly the defense played with him out there, you'd think he'd want to turn it around.
Not if his labia is torn or if he just wants money.

I'll stand on the sidelines and pout for 6+ mill.

[GvilleBills]

Not if his labia is torn or if he just wants money.

I'll stand on the sidelines and pout for 6+ mill.
In his defense, running with a torn labia seems like it would be hella painful.

[Mr. Pink]

After seeing how horribly the defense played with him out there, you'd think he'd want to turn it around.

This is the most asinine thing someone can post about a single player.

Seeing how horrible our offense is with CJ Spiller out there, he should turn it up a notch.

[Skooby]

This is the most asinine thing someone can post about a single player.

Seeing how horrible our offense is with CJ Spiller out there, he should turn it up a notch.

I'm hoping he steps it up & helps make a difference on our defense, he can only do that on the field.

[feldspar]

I'll have a further opinion on Byrd once this situation resolves itself. It's far from over.

He's been slapped with the franchise tag, and that's all there is to it. Any team that would trade for him now would be operating under the same franchise tag, so I don't see that happening...no team is going to give up a high pick without some sort of guarantee that Byrd will stick with their club for a while.

This is to be continued after the 2013 season. I'd rather focus on the 2013 season. A lot could change before we revisit Byrd's future (or lack thereof) in Buffalo.

He's been franchised...that's not the worst thing in the world. It happens. It's set in stone. Crying about it won't help anyone or change a thing. We'll see what happens later.

[Skooby]

I'll have a further opinion on Byrd once this situation resolves itself. It's far from over.

He's been slapped with the franchise tag, and that's all there is to it. Any team that would trade for him now would be operating under the same franchise tag, so I don't see that happening...no team is going to give up a high pick without some sort of guarantee that Byrd will stick with their club for a while.

This is to be continued after the 2013 season. I'd rather focus on the 2013 season. A lot could change before we revisit Byrd's future (or lack thereof) in Buffalo.

He's been franchised...that's not the worst thing in the world. It happens. It's set in stone. Crying about it won't help anyone or change a thing. We'll see what happens later.

Couldn't they come to a verbal agreement & ink it on the first possible day ?? Worst case scenario is to franchise him again & get a contract done before it goes too far.

[feldspar]

Couldn't they come to a verbal agreement & ink it on the first possible day ?? Worst case scenario is to franchise him again & get a contract done before it goes too far.

I'm pretty sure they can't negotiate at all until the end of the league year.

Some people don't seem to realize that it's entirely possible to sign Byrd next year. Dwayne Bowe was franchised last year in Kansas City. He didn't like it either, and he held out for about as long as Byrd did before signing his tender. He played under that tender last year, then signed a 5-year contract with Kansas City this offseason...in other words, he stuck with the club that franchised him.

Then there is Cliff Avril, who was franchised by the Lions last year for about $10.6 million. The Lions offered him a 3-year $30 million contract, but he turned it down. He turned down $10 million a year, then held out before signing his tender. The Lions could not afford to tag him again this year, so he became a free agent. He signed a two-year $13 million contract in Seattle. The moral is that he lost a ton of money. Byrd should watch his step, I think.

I think that the Bills should (and will) tag Byrd again next year. If they can't reach an agreement, then they should orchestrate a trade. They should be compensated either way. I hope they can work something out next year and retain Byrd.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'll have a further opinion on Byrd once this situation resolves itself. It's far from over.

He's been slapped with the franchise tag, and that's all there is to it. Any team that would trade for him now would be operating under the same franchise tag, so I don't see that happening...no team is going to give up a high pick without some sort of guarantee that Byrd will stick with their club for a while.
Yes, and that guarantee is a conditional draft pick trade.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm pretty sure they can't negotiate at all until the end of the league year.

Some people don't seem to realize that it's entirely possible to sign Byrd next year. Dwayne Bowe was franchised last year in Kansas City. He didn't like it either, and he held out for about as long as Byrd did before signing his tender. He played under that tender last year, then signed a 5-year contract with Kansas City this offseason...in other words, he stuck with the club that franchised him.

But only after they fired the GM he was at loggerheads with.


Then there is Cliff Avril, who was franchised by the Lions last year for about $10.6 million. The Lions offered him a 3-year $30 million contract, but he turned it down. He turned down $10 million a year, then held out before signing his tender. The Lions could not afford to tag him again this year, so he became a free agent. He signed a two-year $13 million contract in Seattle. The moral is that he lost a ton of money. Byrd should watch his step, I think.

And then there is Vincent Jackson who was franchised, held out, signed late, got released and signed bajillion dollar deal in Tampa Bay.

[better days]

This is the most asinine thing someone can post about a single player.

Seeing how horrible our offense is with CJ Spiller out there, he should turn it up a notch.

It was Chan not giving Spiller the ball that was the problem.

Don't worry, Hackett will turn it up a few notches.