And now we see the problem....

[OpIv37]

I'll admit- so far, the Patriots' problems at WR have hurt them more than I expected.

Here's the problem, though: they're 2-0 with a one game lead and a tiebreaker over the Jets. They will end be weekend with a tiebreaker and a 1 or 2 game lead over us and at least a tiebreaker over Miami.

They played like **** and are still dominating the division standings. They should easily pull 5 wins out of this division. They were blessed with two tune-up games.

If they can manage to go 5-5 or better in their non-division games, they'll still win the div easily.

They're the weakest they've been in a decade and all the Bills and Jets can do is lay down and die. And that's. BEFORE Gronk has come back.

The ****ing Pats will be in the playoffs again, and by that time their young WR's will have had 16 with Brady to get on the same page. Will they win the SB? I highly doubt it, but we will be waiting at least one more year for the Pats' demise.

[EricStratton]

Lay down and die?

[TacklingDummy]

Stealing my thoughts?

8:49am

The Pats will probably go 5-1 or 4-2 in the division.
They also play Atlanta, Tampa, Cincy, New Orleans, Steelers, Panthers, Broncos, Texans, Browns, Ravens.
I can see them going 5-5 in that stretch, finishing either 10-6 or 9-7.
You think the Jets and Bills can win 9 or 10 games?

[OpIv37]

Didnt see your post TD but I agree completely.

[TacklingDummy]

The ****ing Pats will be in the playoffs again, and by that time their young WR's will have had 16 with Brady to get on the same page. Will they win the SB? I highly doubt it, but we will be waiting at least one more year for the Pats' demise.

Maybe even longer than that if the Receivers come around and their Defense continues to look this good. Granted their defense look great against 2 putrid offenses but that's better than looking bad against them.

[Fletch]

I'll admit- so far, the Patriots' problems at WR have hurt them more than I expected.

Here's the problem, though: they're 2-0 with a one game lead and a tiebreaker over the Jets. They will end be weekend with a tiebreaker and a 1 or 2 game lead over us and at least a tiebreaker over Miami.

They played like **** and are still dominating the division standings. They should easily pull 5 wins out of this division. They were blessed with two tune-up games.

If they can manage to go 5-5 or better in their non-division games, they'll still win the div easily.

They're the weakest they've been in a decade and all the Bills and Jets can do is lay down and die. And that's. BEFORE Gronk has come back.

The ****ing Pats will be in the playoffs again, and by that time their young WR's will have had 16 with Brady to get on the same page. Will they win the SB? I highly doubt it, but we will be waiting at least one more year for the Pats' demise.

The Pats may be in the playoffs, but Harbaugh owns Belicheat and they're going to get pounded by anyone that they play in the playoffs and they won't have any more than one home game.

They wouldn't win another division in the league except for maybe the NFCN depending upon how things shake out there as it's recently been a hodgepodge of mediocrity.

They're going to struggle in the rest of their road games and they still have to play the Jets in NY and Miami twice. Miami's no Denver, but they're better than we are or the Jets. Teams like Baltimore, Denver, NO, Atlanta, and even Cincy and maybe even Houston are going to abuse the Pats.

No one's afraid to blitz Brady anymore, particularly not this season, their D is average or so tops, and as is clear this is the worst O they've ever had on Brady's watch.

[better days]

Maybe even longer than that if the Receivers come around and their Defense continues to look this good. Granted their defense look great against 2 putrid offenses but that's better than looking bad against them.

The receivers are a HUGE IF for the Pats* They may improve as the year goes on or they may continue to be what they are now, a MEDIOCRE group of low rnd & undrafted receivers that were that for a reason.

[The King]

After watching last nights fiasco, it makes losing last week hurt much more.

Ultimately that's what I am looking to see from this coaching staff. The ability to finish a game and step on the throat of the opponent. I hope to see a pissed off team on Sunday.

But in all honesty we're not in a position to worry about the division. We just need to get better every week. No one was expecting playoffs this year. I think a successful season can be measured by how the team improves, if we can make every game a dogfight these guys will learn how to finish. That being said I don't consider a 5-11, 6-10 season acceptable either.

[better days]

I'll admit- so far, the Patriots' problems at WR have hurt them more than I expected.

Here's the problem, though: they're 2-0 with a one game lead and a tiebreaker over the Jets. They will end be weekend with a tiebreaker and a 1 or 2 game lead over us and at least a tiebreaker over Miami.

They played like **** and are still dominating the division standings. They should easily pull 5 wins out of this division. They were blessed with two tune-up games.

If they can manage to go 5-5 or better in their non-division games, they'll still win the div easily.

They're the weakest they've been in a decade and all the Bills and Jets can do is lay down and die. And that's. BEFORE Gronk has come back.

The ****ing Pats will be in the playoffs again, and by that time their young WR's will have had 16 with Brady to get on the same page. Will they win the SB? I highly doubt it, but we will be waiting at least one more year for the Pats' demise.


Even if the Pats* win the division this year, their demise has started. Their best days are behind them.

They will be lucky to even make the playoffs let alone get past the first rnd. They could as easily go 8-8 or 7-9 as 10-6 or 9-7.

That team is composed of aging players, no longer in their prime & very young unproven players that may never amount to anything.

[DraftBoy]

Can't be concerned with what the Pats are or aren't right now. This year was never going to be about W/L.

[The King]

Even if the Pats* win the division this year, their demise has started. Their best days are behind them.

They will be lucky to even make the playoffs let alone get past the first rnd. They could as easily go 8-8 or 7-9 as 10-6 or 9-7.

That team is composed of aging players, no longer in their prime & very young unproven players that may never amount to anything.

None of this matters until a team in the division can step up and beat them. They have a mental edge on every team in the AFCE.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I disagree.

I see a similar team like the 95-96 Bills in Kelly's waning years. They have a core superstars players, though aging, who will still win games like the last two. But I don't see them going anywhere league wide any more. They have some good young players here and there. But no new superstars that I saw will dominate everyone like they used to.

The Bills and Jets are widely perceived as bottom feeders this year, which are more likely to be true and expected. Anyone with illusions that teams like the Bills can win the division THIS year, no matter how weak the division is, is not realistic. I understand the frustration of 13 years no playoff and mis-management over that period of time, but for once I want them to do it right. New management, play rookie key players, give them time to develop. I don't want those Jauron's 7-9 seasons or Chan's 6-10 seasons with no hope, no future insight, only some prayers that if things line up right they squeezed into playoff to be trumped by someone on their way to superbowl.

[The King]

I would love for the Bills to be in a position to effect the Patriots playoff status in Week 17. That would be a perfect time to show them this team is on the rise.

[TacklingDummy]

That team is composed of aging players, no longer in their prime & very young unproven players that may never amount to anything.

The Pats team age average is 25.88 (11th), the Bills is 25.3 (3rd).
Oddly the Lions 27.15 are last.

[better days]

The Pats team age average is 25.88 (11th), the Bills is 25.3 (3rd).
Oddly the Lions 27.15 are last.

Just another example of how stats can be MISLEADING.

The Pats* are composed of older players & younger players with few players in their prime to combine for that average, while the Bills & Lions both have many more players in their prime with few older players.

[Night Train]

Lay down and die?

Bullseye

How is a rebuilding team with a HC and QB one game into their pro careers laying down and dying ?

Good God. :rofl: We have a lot of Tony nominees as posters, I see.

The Pats are half the team they used to be and the rest of the division is rebuilding. I don't need to make a call to Baker Street to solve this mystery. :rolleyes:

[justasportsfan]

What was encouraging about that game is that we kept up and were competitive throughout the game. That all happened with a rookie qb , new D without Gilmore and a bad game by Spiller. I think we can only get better in time.

[DesertFox24]

We were never going to compete for the division this year unless brady blows out a knee or shoulder. The Jets Bills and phins are not good enough and the real competition is trying to finish second and get a 500 or slightly better record.

Just like Brady and his WRs need to get on the same page so do our guys, so hopefully by week 17 we are a much better team and can hopefully get some good vibes for 2014 which is the season we can compete for the division.

[HAMMER]

Their defense is good, their offense is finding it's way. As Op pointed out they will be on the same page soon and then it will be back to high flying for them. As long as the B's are in Boston they are the favorite.

[Mr. Pink]

I disagree. The Pats will go 6-0 in the division.

And will get better as the season goes on and Brady develops chemistry with his young receivers.

[TacklingDummy]

I disagree. The Pats will go 6-0 in the division.

And will get better as the season goes on and Brady develops chemistry with his young receivers.

I wouldn't be surprised at 6-0 in the division. I had them going 5-1 or 4-2 in the division but I was playing to the unrealistic crowd.

[better days]

I wouldn't be surprised at 6-0 in the division. I had them going 5-1 or 4-2 in the division but I was playing to the unrealistic crowd.

As opposed to the "realistic" 2-14 crowd. LMAO.

​Screw the 2-14 crowd.

[better days]

I disagree. The Pats will go 6-0 in the division.

And will get better as the season goes on and Brady develops chemistry with his young receivers.

Brady developing Chemistry with those Rookies does not mean they will stop dropping balls that they should have caught.

[TacklingDummy]

As opposed to the "realistic" 2-14 crowd. LMAO.

​Screw the 2-14 crowd.

I didn't see your prediction in Cntrygal thread.
What is it?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Their defense is good, their offense is finding it's way. As Op pointed out they will be on the same page soon and then it will be back to high flying for them. As long as the B's are in Boston they are the favorite.
Much like people said about guys like Bruce, Jim, Thurman, Andre almost 20 years ago and the superbowl go thru Buffalo stuff. 36 year old is 36 year old. You cant rewind the clock. The saying "it's a young man's sport" holds a lot of truth. You and I and every day Joe may not feel that different being 36 and 26 - probably pushing the same weight, running the same miles every day. But for those who perform at their peak every week professtionally, half a step slower, half a second slow response time could mean the difference starting on Sunday or riding the practice squad bench. Like guys named Bruce, Jim, Thurman, and Andre before, they are adpating and fighting thru it now. But it's a battle 99.99% of them are going to lose very soon.

[OpIv37]

Much like people said about guys like Bruce, Jim, Thurman, Andre almost 20 years ago and the superbowl go thru Buffalo stuff. 36 year old is 36 year old. You cant rewind the clock. The saying "it's a young man's sport" holds a lot of truth. You and I and every day Joe may not feel that different being 36 and 26 - probably pushing the same weight, running the same miles every day. But for those who perform at their peak every week professtionally, half a step slower, half a second slow response time could mean the difference starting on Sunday or riding the practice squad bench. Like guys named Bruce, Jim, Thurman, and Andre before, they are adpating and fighting thru it now. But it's a battle 99.99% of them are going to lose very soon.
Yeah we heard this in 2010, 11 and 12. Save this post so you can use it in 14, 15 and 16.

[better days]

I didn't see your prediction in Cntrygal thread.
What is it?

No, I did't get in on time. I have said all along, I expect the Bills to win 6 games MINIMUM. And if they don't, I want Marrone fired.

[better days]

Yeah we heard this in 2010, 11 and 12. Save this post so you can use it in 14, 15 and 16.

I would love the Bills chances against a 39 year old Brady. He is 36 this year, & looks VERY human.

[OpIv37]

I would love the Bills chances against a 39 year old Brady. He is 36 this year, & looks VERY human.
But you just said he looks human because of bad receivers. You don't think that either the WR's they have will improve or they'll find new ones in 3 years?

[TacklingDummy]

No, I did't get in on time. I have said all along, I expect the Bills to win 6 games MINIMUM. And if they don't, I want Marrone fired.

Wow, fired after 1 year? That's harsh.

I predicted 2 wins but it will probably be 4 or 5, I doubt highly it will be 6.

[Bill Cody]

Ultimately that's what I am looking to see from this coaching staff. The ability to finish a game and step on the throat of the opponent.

agree as long as you give more than a week before you're already frustrated that a rookie HC can't deliver that

[Bill Cody]

That team is composed of aging players, no longer in their prime

Other than Brady who are you talking about? Wilfork? he's 31

[OpIv37]

Other than Brady who are you talking about? Wilfork? he's 31

He doesn't see anything objectively when it comes to sports so be tends to talk ou of both sides of his mouth.

"The Bills' rookie WR's are an upgrade even with a rookie QB but the Patriots' rookie WR's will hold back a future HOF QB."
"The Patriots are young and inexperienced at WR but they are over the hill and on the decline."
"The WR's are holding Brady back but Brady's not a top 15 QB anymore."

[better days]

But you just said he looks human because of bad receivers. You don't think that either the WR's they have will improve or they'll find new ones in 3 years?

NO, the Rookie receivers can not help him like Gronk & Welker did. But Brady looks MUCH more average this year himself.

I said on Monday that Bradys passes looked like wounded ducks all game. The was a WIND in the Ralph Sunday. The ball was blown off the tee a couple times.

EJ's passes cut through the wind like a knife. Brady's passes fluttered like feathers in the wind.

And Brady fumbled the ball on the goal line himself. Even Gronk & Welker could not have helped him there.

Make no mistake about it, this is the beginning of the end for Brady.

[OpIv37]

NO, the Rookie receivers can not help him like Gronk & Welker did. But Brady looks MUCH more average this year himself.

I said on Monday that Bradys passes looked like wounded ducks all game. The was a WIND in the Ralph Sunday. The ball was blown off the tee a couple times.

EJ's passes cut through the wind like a knife. Brady's passes fluttered like feathers in the wind.

And Brady fumbled the ball on the goal line himself. Even Gronk & Welker could not have helped him there.

Make no mistake about it, this is the beginning of the end for Brady.
People have been saying this for years. Iirc you've said it yourself at least the last two years.

Keep saying it every year and eventually you'll be right.

[Bill Cody]

NO, the Rookie receivers can not help him like Gronk & Welker did. But Brady looks MUCH more average this year himself.

I said on Monday that Bradys passes looked like wounded ducks all game. The was a WIND in the Ralph Sunday. The ball was blown off the tee a couple times.

EJ's passes cut through the wind like a knife. Brady's passes fluttered like feathers in the wind.

And Brady fumbled the ball on the goal line himself. Even Gronk & Welker could not have helped him there.

Make no mistake about it, this is the beginning of the end for Brady.

Gronk is coming back. Amendola didn't play last night. QB play is all about timing. I would be a little cautious about this talk of decline. And you still haven't told me who all these old players are?

[better days]

Other than Brady who are you talking about? Wilfork? he's 31

Yes Wilfork. NO sacks against the Bills & I think one against the Jets. And Wilfork was put on his back last night.

Mayock said he never saw that before.

In addition to Brady & Wilfork, Tommy Kelly, Logan Mankins, & Dan Connolly are up there in age, past their prime.

[better days]

Gronk is coming back. Amendola didn't play last night. QB play is all about timing. I would be a little cautious about this talk of decline. And you still haven't told me who all these old players are?

Yeah, I said in other posts, Amendola & Gronk will make a big difference.................if they can stay on the field.

BOTH are injury prone & there is no telling how many games either will play.

I am not saying Brady will be in complete decline this year, but you can see he is not the player he used to be. The mystique is gone. It is the begining of the end.

I can see Brady playing another 3 or 4 years with a steady decline. He is on the downward slope. He is not getting better from this point on, he is getting worse.

[The Jokeman]

Didnt see your post TD but I agree completely.

Let's not worry about defeating the Patriots, and instead of winning the next game against Carolina.

[better days]

Wow, fired after 1 year? That's harsh.

I predicted 2 wins but it will probably be 4 or 5, I doubt highly it will be 6.

If Marrone can't win 6 games with this team, then IMO he is not a good HC & needs to be fired.

That said, I fully expect the Bills to win at least 6 games. I think we will see Sunday against the Panthers just what kind of team the Bills have.

If the Bills win Sunday, I will give them a shot at the playoffs, if not then 6-10 to 8-8.

[OpIv37]

Let's not worry about defeating the Patriots, and instead of winning the next game against Carolina.

Yes- lets not worry about beating teams in our division. Instead lets concentrate on mediocre NFC teams and AFC bottom-feeders to ensure we get our 4-6 wins a year and remain mired in mediocrity.

[Bill Cody]

Yes Wilfork. NO sacks against the Bills & I think one against the Jets. And Wilfork was put on his back last night.

Mayock said he never saw that before.

In addition to Brady & Wilfork, Tommy Kelly, Logan Mankins, & Dan Connolly are up there in age, past their prime.

You're grasping here. Wilfork is a beast. Sacks are only a small part of his game. He has plenty left in the tank. And 31 is hardly old for an OL man. Kelly is JAG, Brady never had the strongest arm and he's never been mobile. I think he'll be very good until he's 40. Maybe not MVP level but still top 10 QB good.

[pmoon6]

Lay down and die?He's prone to exaggeration, but not unlike many fans who consider a 2 point loss an ass kicking.

Anyone that looks at our performance last Sunday and doesn't see any hope needs their head examined, although I think many are in therapy already. Probably dealing with childhood abuse issues.

[pmoon6]

Yes- lets not worry about beating teams in our division. Instead lets concentrate on mediocre NFC teams and AFC bottom-feeders to ensure we get our 4-6 wins a year and remain mired in mediocrity.I think he means putting the past in the past and moving on. Concentrating on this weeks game.

But, don't let anyone interfere with your negative maelstrom. It probably keeps you warm at night.

[OpIv37]

Yes Wilfork. NO sacks against the Bills & I think one against the Jets. And Wilfork was put on his back last night.

Mayock said he never saw that before.

In addition to Brady & Wilfork, Tommy Kelly, Logan Mankins, & Dan Connolly are up there in age, past their prime.
Wilfork's a 3-4 nose tackle. Their job isn't to get sacks. It's to take up space and collapse the pocket so the de's and OLB's can clean up and get sacks.

I don't know why people continue to struggle with this concept.

[better days]

Yes- lets not worry about beating teams in our division. Instead lets concentrate on mediocre NFC teams and AFC bottom-feeders to ensure we get our 4-6 wins a year and remain mired in mediocrity.

So you would rather the Bills lose? Finish 0-16 or 2-14. You think that is the road to success?

YES the Bills have been mired in MEDIOCRITY for TOO LONG, but I can see them at 6-10 this year and making IMPROVEMENTS so this is the last mediocre year.

If the Bills can't win at least 6 this year, then I want Marrone fired & see only continued mediocrity if he is not.

[Bill Cody]

Yes- lets not worry about beating teams in our division. Instead lets concentrate on mediocre NFC teams and AFC bottom-feeders to ensure we get our 4-6 wins a year and remain mired in mediocrity.

baby steps. How about our rookie QB and rookie HC get a win 1st before we're "mired"?

[OpIv37]

I think he means putting the past in the past and moving on. Concentrating on this weeks game.

But, don't let anyone interfere with your negative maelstrom. It probably keeps you warm at night.

Except that its a completely different topic. I wasn't talking about the last game or the upcoming game. I was talking about the competition within the division.

[better days]

Wilfork's a 3-4 nose tackle. Their job isn't to get sacks. It's to take up space and collapse the pocket so the de's and OLB's can clean up and get sacks.

I don't know why people continue to struggle with this concept.

Wilfork has always gotten sacks as well. That is what made him so good.

And when he was put on his ass last night, it was on a run play which resulted in a TD for the Jets.

[OpIv37]

baby steps. How about our rookie QB and rookie HC get a win 1st before we're "mired"?

Lmao- we've been mired in mediocrity for 13 years and we still are until the team proves differently.

The "yay we almost didnt lose to the Patriots" reaction from many here shows just how bad it's gotten.

[OpIv37]

Wilfork has always gotten sacks as well. That is what made him so good.

And when he was put on his ass last night, it was on a run play which resulted in a TD for the Jets.
And? It's one play. Everyone has bad plays from time to time. If a Bills player has a bad play, you write it off, but if a Pats player had a bad play, it's proof that he's over the hill. Please.

[better days]

And? It's one play. Everyone has bad plays from time to time. If a Bills player has a bad play, you write it off, but if a Pats player had a bad play, it's proof that he's over the hill. Please.

Not just one bad play. Two MEDIOCRE games by Wilfork in relation to how he has played in the past.

[Bill Cody]

Lmao- we've been mired in mediocrity for 13 years and we still are until the team proves differently.

The "yay we almost didnt lose to the Patriots" reaction from many here shows just how bad it's gotten.

What does EJ Manuel and Doug Marrone have to do with the past 13 years? Or are they "mired in mediocrity" after a week? And by the way you expected us to be blown out. Were we?

[better days]

You're grasping here. Wilfork is a beast. Sacks are only a small part of his game. He has plenty left in the tank. And 31 is hardly old for an OL man. Kelly is JAG, Brady never had the strongest arm and he's never been mobile. I think he'll be very good until he's 40. Maybe not MVP level but still top 10 QB good.

All those players are past their prime, that is what I said.

As for Brady, he may be top 10 to 15 this year if Amendola & Gronk play most of the season. If they don't, I think he struggles to brake the top 15.

In the future, younger QB's will supplant Brady as a top 10 QB. Brady should be an effective QB until he is 39 or 40 & win games, but I doubt he will be a top 10 QB in the future.

[OpIv37]

What does EJ Manuel and Doug Marrone have to do with the past 13 years? Or are they "mired in mediocrity" after a week? And by the way you expected us to be blown out. Were we?

Here we go again. First, the goal is to win, not to simply exceed the expectations of some random message board poster.

Second, I'm not talking about Marrone or Manuel. I'm talking about the franchise as a whole. We've made coaching and QB changes before, to no avail. Did they make the right choice this time? Only time will tell, but the franchise is still mired in mediocrity until they get some results on the field to prove otherwise

[OpIv37]

Not just one bad play. Two MEDIOCRE games by Wilfork in relation to how he has played in the past.

And if CJ Spiller had a bad game this week, will you be willing to say he's washed up as well?

[better days]

And if CJ Spiller had a bad game this week, will you be willing to say he's washed up as well?

I'm not saying Wilfork is washed up. But if he keeps playing like he has the first two games, he can be considered to be an average NT, NOT the the BEAST & force he was.

And CJ is MUCH younger than Wilfork, so if he has another poor game, I will expect him to bounce back at some point.

[kishoph]

I wish some of these so called "Bills fans" would stick up for the Bills like they're sticking up for the Pats in this thread. I know your all realist. :bs:

[OpIv37]

I wish some of these so called "Bills fans" would stick up for the Bills like they're sticking up for the Pats in this thread. I know your all realist. :bs:

It's not "sticking up" for anything. The Pats win, we don't. Yet, some people on here think we are on the way up because we played poorly and lost but the Pats are on the way down because they played poorly and won.

And pointing out that hypocrisy means I have my fandom challenged? I really wish some of you had the balls to root for this team without mind-****ing yourselves into thinking they are better than they are. I think a lot of you would have jumped ship a long time ago if you were mentally capable of acknowledging how bad this team is.

[lightningbolt444]

I'm not saying Wilfork is washed up. But if he keeps playing like he has the first two games, he can be considered to be an average NT, NOT the the BEAST & force he was.

And CJ is MUCH younger than Wilfork, so if he has another poor game, I will expect him to bounce back at some point.

What game were you watching last night to say Wilfork was average? There are a few plays in particular where he just dominated. On one of the pats INTs Geno tried to get outside the pocket but willforx chased him across the field and stayed in his running lane the ENTIRE time a guy that big staying in Geno smiths running lane is super impressive.

Bills fans are funny we have one of our Undrafted FA's catch a 10 yard pass and they are the next great WR. On the flip side another teams player that has been elite for a number of years gets blocked on one play and they are washed up/average.

Players CANNOT be dominate on every play. Not one player in this league is now and there will never be a player ever that is dominate on every play. You can find bad plays for every player in history.

I am high on what the Bills have done so far this offseason and am liking what I am seeing from EJ. I hate the full on negative approach to this thing but we cant blindly follow the team either. They have not been to the playoffs in 13 years yet after a loss we have some talking about winning the division if things fall right. As usual everyone will look back on the 90's and say wow EJ is the next Kelly blah blah. I dont want EJ to be the next Kelly I want him to be EJ and be EJ at an elite level.

Most of hockey (including myself) hates on maple leaf fans for living in the past yet many Bills fans still do as well. WAKE UP look at the team realistically we have a lot of positives but also a lot of negatives. WR is a weakness not a strength on this team until proven otherwise. Our #1 RB has never fully carried the load so while he is amazing that is a concern until proven otherwise. We have an extremely overpaid D line that doesnt produce but on a handful of plays. We have One PROVEN DB and that is Byrd but he is a whiny B***h that will probably be gone in a few years. Everything else that we have is POTENTIAL. Potential is NOTHING if it is not realized.

So lets take this team for what it is and find a good balance between negative and positive.

[justasportsfan]

Yet, some people on here think we are on the way up because we played poorly and lost but the Pats are on the way down because they played poorly and won.



It's not about real wins and losses (record) it's about moral victories. Helloo!

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It's not "sticking up" for anything. The Pats win, we don't. Yet, some people on here think we are on the way up because we played poorly and lost but the Pats are on the way down because they played poorly and won.

And pointing out that hypocrisy means I have my fandom challenged? I really wish some of you had the balls to root for this team without mind-****ing yourselves into thinking they are better than they are. I think a lot of you would have jumped ship a long time ago if you were mentally capable of acknowledging how bad this team is.

All right, I'm convinced. You'd rather the Bills have lost by 35 so you could be validated in predicting a blowout.

[OpIv37]

All right, I'm convinced. You'd rather the Bills have lost by 35 so you could be validated in predicting a blowout.

Lmao. I've been validated more times than I can count. But nobody remembers that because then they have to acknowledge the reality. They only remember the one time we lost but by less than I thought we'd lose by.

[pmoon6]

Lmao. I've been validated more times than I can count. But nobody remembers that because then they have to acknowledge the reality. They only remember the one time we lost but by less than I thought we'd lose by.You da Maaannnn!!!!

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Lmao. I've been validated more times than I can count. But nobody remembers that because then they have to acknowledge the reality. They only remember the one time we lost but by less than I thought we'd lose by.

Who is having trouble acknowledging reality here? You and I both said the Pats game was going to be a complete beatdown. It was a 2 point loss. I looked at that loss and saw a team that played better than I expected. You looked at that loss and complained louder.

No b*******, none of the tautologies. Would you rather have lost by 2 or 35?

[justasportsfan]

Who is having trouble acknowledging reality here? You and I both said the Pats game was going to be a complete beatdown. It was a 2 point loss. I looked at that loss and saw a team that played better than I expected. You looked at that loss and complained louder.

No b*******, none of the tautologies. Would you rather have lost by 2 or 35?

It will take time for OP to reply. He's busy patting himself on the shoulder because the bills lost even though it wasn't a blowout like he predicted.

[pmoon6]

Who is having trouble acknowledging reality here? You and I both said the Pats game was going to be a complete beatdown. It was a 2 point loss. I looked at that loss and saw a team that played better than I expected. You looked at that loss and complained louder.

No b*******, none of the tautologies. Would you rather have lost by 2 or 35?I have a picture of Opie in my mind. He's sitting in the Harvard Club with pipe and Brandy. When the conversation comes to him, he draws on the bowl, exhales and says "Well, actually......." in the most pompous tone you can imagine.

Of course, there is another. He's walking down the street with his cane pole when Aunt Bee calls him in for dinner.

[Syderick]

The Pats* D stinks, and has the last couple seasons. They give up a lot of rushing yards and their secondary isn't there. They've lost a few players like Chung last season. They just happen to play against two weaker Offenses.
The Pats have also lost alot of receivers and it shows. They had all off-season to get chemistry, and didn't so what's a few more games supposed to do. They only win the AFC east division because it's weak.

[better days]

What game were you watching last night to say Wilfork was average? There are a few plays in particular where he just dominated. On one of the pats INTs Geno tried to get outside the pocket but willforx chased him across the field and stayed in his running lane the ENTIRE time a guy that big staying in Geno smiths running lane is super impressive.

Bills fans are funny we have one of our Undrafted FA's catch a 10 yard pass and they are the next great WR. On the flip side another teams player that has been elite for a number of years gets blocked on one play and they are washed up/average.

Players CANNOT be dominate on every play. Not one player in this league is now and there will never be a player ever that is dominate on every play. You can find bad plays for every player in history.

I am high on what the Bills have done so far this offseason and am liking what I am seeing from EJ. I hate the full on negative approach to this thing but we cant blindly follow the team either. They have not been to the playoffs in 13 years yet after a loss we have some talking about winning the division if things fall right. As usual everyone will look back on the 90's and say wow EJ is the next Kelly blah blah. I dont want EJ to be the next Kelly I want him to be EJ and be EJ at an elite level.

Most of hockey (including myself) hates on maple leaf fans for living in the past yet many Bills fans still do as well. WAKE UP look at the team realistically we have a lot of positives but also a lot of negatives. WR is a weakness not a strength on this team until proven otherwise. Our #1 RB has never fully carried the load so while he is amazing that is a concern until proven otherwise. We have an extremely overpaid D line that doesnt produce but on a handful of plays. We have One PROVEN DB and that is Byrd but he is a whiny B***h that will probably be gone in a few years. Everything else that we have is POTENTIAL. Potential is NOTHING if it is not realized.

So lets take this team for what it is and find a good balance between negative and positive.

If you look at History, once GREAT players at the end of their careers become AVERAGE or even below average players.

You just have to look at last year & see Ray Lewis was a shell of his former self. He did not become that shell overnight, it was a gradual decline.

In the same respect, Brady & Wilfork are not YET shells of their former selves, BUT neither is the player they once were either.

Both are are the downward slope & are getting worse not better. It is only a matter of time before both are a shell of their former selves.

[OpIv37]

Who is having trouble acknowledging reality here? You and I both said the Pats game was going to be a complete beatdown. It was a 2 point loss. I looked at that loss and saw a team that played better than I expected. You looked at that loss and complained louder.

No b*******, none of the tautologies. Would you rather have lost by 2 or 35?
I would rather have won.

The entire mentality of this post is off. Playing better than you or I expected but still losing is not acceptable. It's not accomplishing the goal, especially when you consider that we were one or two mistakes away from winning that game.

At the end of the year, there are no trophies for exceeding the expectations of message board posters. They only give trophies for winning.

[HAMMER]

I don't see anything from Wilfork or Brady that indicate they are on the downward slope. Just because Brady hasn't put up consecutive 3-4 hundred yard games doesn't mean he is any worse. Wilfork is as dominant as ever. Honestly Better Days, you talk out of your azz all the time, just because you want it to be true does not make it so.

[kelly2reed4six]

Why must we assume that the patriots are going to be significantly better by the end of the season. I really don't see it. These young wide receivers have had all throughout mini camps, training camp, and the preseason to develop "chemistry" with Brady. You're talking months already. Is it possible that these guys he's throwing to just SUCK?? Is it possible that Brady hitting a decline? We're talking about a 2nd rounder and an undrafted guy.....a guy that 31 other teams passed on through 7 ROUNDS of the draft!! Perhaps, just perhaps, this is close to the ceiling for these guys. The patriots have an ugly schedule after next week and I have a feeling they are going to get exposed.

[better days]

I don't see anything from Wilfork or Brady that indicate they are on the downward slope. Just because Brady hasn't put up consecutive 3-4 hundred yard games doesn't mean he is any worse. Wilfork is as dominant as ever. Honestly Better Days, you talk out of your azz all the time, just because you want it to be true does not make it so.

Brady threw for less than 50% yesterday. FACT. When is the last time that happened?

He did not have one long drive for a TD in either the Bills game or the Jets game. FACT.

When is the last time Brady did not have a single LONG drive for a TD in one game let alone two in a row?

36 points in TWO games combined. FACT. Brady has put up MORE than that in ONE game MANY times.

If that does not look like a downward slope to you, then you don't know what a downward slope looks like.

And Wilfork was MEDIOCRE in both games as well.

[pmoon6]

Brady threw for less than 50% yesterday. FACT. When is the last time that happened?

He did not have one long drive for a TD in either the Bills game or the Jets game. FACT.

When is the last time Brady did not have a single LONG drive for a TD in one game let alone two in a row?

36 points in TWO games combined. FACT. Brady has put up MORE than that in ONE game MANY times.

If that does not look like a downward slope to you, then you don't know what a downward slope looks like.

And Wilfork was MEDIOCRE in both games as well.You forgot his third down conversion percentage. Oh, and his tearful sideline tirades.

[OpIv37]

Why must we assume that the patriots are going to be significantly better by the end of the season. I really don't see it. These young wide receivers have had all throughout mini camps, training camp, and the preseason to develop "chemistry" with Brady. You're talking months already. Is it possible that these guys he's throwing to just SUCK?? Is it possible that Brady hitting a decline? We're talking about a 2nd rounder and an undrafted guy.....a guy that 31 other teams passed on through 7 ROUNDS of the draft!! Perhaps, just perhaps, this is close to the ceiling for these guys. The patriots have an ugly schedule after next week and I have a feeling they are going to get exposed.

Is this post from 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 or today?

This isn't the first time the Patriots have had a few hiccups early in the season only to return to dominance by mid-season.

Believe me, I want nothing more than for the Patriots to implode, but we've been here before. Some of you are way too eager to declare the Patriots demise after they open the season with 2 division wins.

Even if they continue to struggle, they built themselves a nice little cushion at the expense of us and the Jets. And they get 4 more games in the AFCE. Even if they are on the downside, they are still going to win the division because it's absolute crap this year.

[EDS]

Wilfork has always gotten sacks as well. That is what made him so good.

And when he was put on his ass last night, it was on a run play which resulted in a TD for the Jets.

Sure about that? Wilfork has never had more than 3.5 sacks in one season. Only twice has he had more than two sacks in a season, and those two occassions are actionally the past two seasons!

[Bill Cody]

Here we go again. First, the goal is to win, not to simply exceed the expectations of some random message board poster.

Second, I'm not talking about Marrone or Manuel. I'm talking about the franchise as a whole. We've made coaching and QB changes before, to no avail. Did they make the right choice this time? Only time will tell, but the franchise is still mired in mediocrity until they get some results on the field to prove otherwise

Win what? The Super Bowl? The division? Make the playoffs? Have a winning record? Those are all pretty tall orders with a rookie QB and rookie HC. The wise guys in Vegas have us pegged for 5 wins. Are they random message board posters too?

[Meathead]

marcia may or may not be showing signs of decline but he can still get in that zone when he needs to give them excellent chances to pull out games, just like theyve done. he will keep drilling balls into the crappy receivers faces and they will get better. ten wins minimum for them

seriously blows to have a little pussy top level hof qb doing his magic and pissing us all off right now but thats what we got here. seriously blows

i mean check it out, here most of us are celebrating that the cheaters will 'only' win nine or ten when the bills and jets both look like bottom quarter teams lucky to win six. seeeeriously blows

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I would rather have won.

You are ducking the question. You predicted we would lose, and we did. Would you have rather we lost big like you predicted or lose small?


The entire mentality of this post is off. Playing better than you or I expected but still losing is not acceptable. It's not accomplishing the goal, especially when you consider that we were one or two mistakes away from winning that game.

At the end of the year, there are no trophies for exceeding the expectations of message board posters. They only give trophies for winning.

And guess what? We aren't winning any of those real trophies this year. So you can sit there and RAGE every time the Bills lose (Spoiler alert: they will lose at least 9 more times this season), or you can recognize this is a rebuilding year and look for positive progress.

I mean, you're the one who keeps insisting this team is at least three years from contention. Do you expect us to just be terrible until one day a light switch gets flipped? This is a process. Either we're moving in the right direction or we aren't.

[HAMMER]

Brady threw for less than 50% yesterday. FACT. When is the last time that happened?

He did not have one long drive for a TD in either the Bills game or the Jets game. FACT.

When is the last time Brady did not have a single LONG drive for a TD in one game let alone two in a row?

It's two games brother, sit back and relax, you will see. Again.

36 points in TWO games combined. FACT. Brady has put up MORE than that in ONE game MANY times.

If that does not look like a downward slope to you, then you don't know what a downward slope looks like.

And Wilfork was MEDIOCRE in both games as well.

Every single year for the last ten I have read these posts from someone like yourself that predicts the Pats demise, one year it will come true, but not while Brady and Belichick are around. Of course there is going to be some ebb and flow, no QB is going to be perfect every week. His completion percentage was not due to his faults but rather his young receivers. Nearly every pass he threw was perfect, that is not a dropoff.

[OpIv37]

Win what? The Super Bowl? The division? Make the playoffs? Have a winning record? Those are all pretty tall orders with a rookie QB and rookie HC. The wise guys in Vegas have us pegged for 5 wins. Are they random message board posters too?

In this case, just the game. He was saying I should have been satisfied because we didn't get blown out like I thought we would. But we still lost, and the goal is to win. My personal expectations have nothing to do with it.

[OpIv37]

You are ducking the question. You predicted we would lose, and we did. Would you have rather we lost big like you predicted or lose small?

Would you rather vote for a turd sandwich or a giant douche? Would you rather take a slapshot from Zdeno Chara to the groin or a head kick from Jon Jones? Would you rather lick a homeless guy's balls or eat half a plate from Tahou's that's been festering in a rat-infested dumpster overnight?

No matter how I answer that question, we still lose. And yes, I'm well aware that it's a process. That doesn't make losing a winnable game to a hated division rival at home any easier to swallow.

What are you trying to say? That the "process" is going well because we almost didn't lose? The sample size is way too small. There are at least a half a dozen times in the last 13 years where we almost didn't lose to the Patriots. None of those meant anything in the long run.

[HAMMER]

Love the analogies.

[The Jokeman]

Yes- lets not worry about beating teams in our division. Instead lets concentrate on mediocre NFC teams and AFC bottom-feeders to ensure we get our 4-6 wins a year and remain mired in mediocrity.

I'm just saying if you look too broadly at things it might make things more overwhelming. I remember Levy once said he broke the schedule down into quarters kind of like a game. I agree we need to improve but am only going to worry on a week by week basis versus over analyzing the season because if we do then all fun might be lost. I actually was going to commend you as in an earlier post you almost sounded positive about some of the things you saw on Sunday.

[OpIv37]

I'm just saying if you look too broadly at things it might make things more overwhelming. I remember Levy once said he broke the schedule down into quarters kind of like a game. I agree we need to improve but am only going to worry on a week by week basis versus over analyzing the season because if we do then all fun might be lost. I actually was going to commend you as in an earlier post you almost sounded positive about some of the things you saw on Sunday.

In the long term there was some positive from Sunday. In the short term, it doesn't make the loss any easier to swallow. Anyway, this thread was more about the competition for the division than any particular game.

[Mr. Pink]

You forgot his third down conversion percentage. Oh, and his tearful sideline tirades.

And who cares?

They're 2-0 with 2 division wins already.

I'd take 2-0, BOTH division wins, with crappy play all around.

Hell, this team doesn't see 2 division wins in a season most years.

[Mace]

It's all the same to me. No matter how much it annoys me, until we own the Pats they own us. It was the same with Miami once. I just hope I live long enough...

[swiper]

It's all the same to me. No matter how much it annoys me, until we own the Pats they own us. It was the same with Miami once. I just hope I live long enough...

Ralph may outlive us all.

[Mike]

Yeah we heard this in 2010, 11 and 12. Save this post so you can use it in 14, 15 and 16.

The point, I believe, is that the Pats are done being a dominant team -a team that wins SBs.

Will they beat up on a poor division while they have the B's? Yes
Will they win another SB? 10% Chance

[Mike]

If Marrone can't win 6 games with this team, then IMO he is not a good HC & needs to be fired.

That said, I fully expect the Bills to win at least 6 games. I think we will see Sunday against the Panthers just what kind of team the Bills have.

If the Bills win Sunday, I will give them a shot at the playoffs, if not then 6-10 to 8-8.

Weren't you arguing that the Bills are a 9-10 win team with the talent on the roster?

8-8 was like your worst case scenario
Now after 1 game in which you predicted a win, we're down to 6-10?

[OpIv37]

The point, I believe, is that the Pats are done being a dominant team -a team that wins SBs.

Will they beat up on a poor division while they have the B's? Yes
Will they win another SB? 10% Chance
That was my point. They are not the juggernaut they once were, but no one in the division is good enough to knock them off. They'll still cruise through the div and make the playoffs.

Will they win another SB? This year, I can't completely dismiss the possibility but it seems highly unlikely. Will they get one more before Brady and Belicheck are done? Depends on if these WR's come through or if they can get better ones in the offseason.

[Mike]

So you would rather the Bills lose? Finish 0-16 or 2-14. You think that is the road to success?

YES the Bills have been mired in MEDIOCRITY for TOO LONG, but I can see them at 6-10 this year and making IMPROVEMENTS so this is the last mediocre year.

If the Bills can't win at least 6 this year, then I want Marrone fired & see only continued mediocrity if he is not.

Sometimes losing can help you win. It's a paradox too difficult to handle for some, but take the Colts.

Would you prefer to have been the Colts in 1998, get the top pick and Draft Manning who went on to win an SB for you or be a mediocre team that's improving?
After Manning Colts had another 2-14 season only to draft Luck who looks amazing!

Would you prefer to have 2 -well timed- dead last seasons which lead to drafting best QB prospects of generation (which was known ahead of time) and have 28 winning seasons and a few SBs or do you prefer to be mediocre year after year with slight improvements but no dead last seasons???

[Mace]

Ralph may outlive us all.

That's a given, I cannot afford his unholy expenses. I think it's pretty funny when anyone thinks he can't afford the best of the black arts. He'll live past 1000 easy, and if it seems he doesn't don't you believe it because he worked the system.

[better days]

Weren't you arguing that the Bills are a 9-10 win team with the talent on the roster?

8-8 was like your worst case scenario
Now after 1 game in which you predicted a win, we're down to 6-10?

I have always said the Bills need to win at least 6 games for Marrone to keep his job.

I see no reason the Bills should win any less than 6 games. I think between 6-9 wins is a reasonable number to expect.

I don't remember saying 10 wins was an expectation this year, although I would love to see it.

If the Bills can win Sunday, I think 10 wins may be possible but if they lose Sunday, I doubt it.

[better days]

Sometimes losing can help you win. It's a paradox too difficult to handle for some, but take the Colts.

Would you prefer to have been the Colts in 1998, get the top pick and Draft Manning who went on to win an SB for you or be a mediocre team that's improving?
After Manning Colts had another 2-14 season only to draft Luck who looks amazing!

Would you prefer to have 2 -well timed- dead last seasons which lead to drafting best QB prospects of generation (which was known ahead of time) and have 28 winning seasons and a few SBs or do you prefer to be mediocre year after year with slight improvements but no dead last seasons???

The Colts are the RARE case where a team REALLY improves by finishing last.

The Chiefs finished last this past year & had the first pick in the draft.

Do you expect them to DOMINATE for the next decade?

[BillsFever21]

And? It's one play. Everyone has bad plays from time to time. If a Bills player has a bad play, you write it off, but if a Pats player had a bad play, it's proof that he's over the hill. Please.

He has already written off an entire year of bad play for many players last year let alone one SINGLE play in a game when it comes to another team.

[feldspar]

Every single year for the last ten I have read these posts from someone like yourself that predicts the Pats demise, one year it will come true, but not while Brady and Belichick are around. Of course there is going to be some ebb and flow, no QB is going to be perfect every week. His completion percentage was not due to his faults but rather his young receivers. Nearly every pass he threw was perfect, that is not a dropoff.

I basically agree, but the rest of the division is making it really easy for the Patriots to stick around here.

[swiper]

I have always said the Bills need to win at least 6 games for Marrone to keep his job.

I see no reason the Bills should win any less than 6 games. I think between 6-9 wins is a reasonable number to expect.

I don't remember saying 10 wins was an expectation this year, although I would love to see it.

If the Bills can win Sunday, I think 10 wins may be possible but if they lose Sunday, I doubt it.

Are you really suggesting that if Marrone wins less than 6 games this year that he will be let go? Really?

[better days]

Are you really suggesting that if Marrone wins less than 6 games this year that he will be let go? Really?

No, I am not saying the Bills will fire him. I am saying they should fire him if he can't win 6 games with this team baring further injuries.

He will have lost my faith in him as a HC & I will join Op in talking about the Bills continued mediocrity.

But as I said before, I don't expect that to happen because I expect the Bills to win at least 6 games.

[DesertFox24]

OP the loss was hard to swallow and the fact they are not as good does it make it less palatable, but the fact remains the bills are trying to become the pats. A dominate team in the division for a decade. They have some of the pieces on the roster but they are not there yet and with a rookie qb I think we have to be patient.

Fans have been spoiled by rookie qb success the past couple of years but I do not believe that is the norm.

That being said this year I have no expectations I do not believe they will finish above 500 especially now with Gilmore injury. With Gilmore I think we would have won the pats panthers and probably jets games. Without I think we lose all three maybe beat the jets if we can ever stop the run.

All I want from this season is to see the team get better every week Nd competitent play calling.

Yeah pretty low but what team with a rookie qb who constantly picks in the top really thinks his team is playoff bound.

[Captain Obvious]

Love the analogies.

The analogies are humourous but logically they make no sense as a defense against the point Illuminatus is trying to make

[BertSquirtgum]

No, I did't get in on time. I have said all along, I expect the Bills to win 6 games MINIMUM. And if they don't, I want Marrone fired.

Dumb

[pmoon6]

DumbAmazing that a one word rebuttal can be so eloquent.

[better days]

Dumb

If Marrone can't win at least 6 games this year, how many do you expect him to win next year?

6? 7? 8? If Marrone can't win 6 games with this team, then IMO, he is a TERRIBLE HC & I want him gone.

But as I said before, I think he is a GOOD HC & expect the Bills to win at least 6 games.

[Beebe's Kid]

If Marrone can't win at least 6 games this year, how many do you expect him to win next year?

6? 7? 8? If Marrone can't win 6 games with this team, then IMO, he is a TERRIBLE HC & I want him gone.

But as I said before, I think he is a GOOD HC & expect the Bills to win at least 6 games.

That should bode well for a rebuild.

I think that I will agree with Hurkey on this one.

[better days]

That should bode well for a rebuild.

I think that I will agree with Hurkey on this one.

I would rather a rebuild after one year than after 3 more years of CRAPPY football.

If Marrone can't win a MEDIOCRE 6 games this year why would anyone think he is a coach worth hanging your hat on?

[TacklingDummy]

I would rather a rebuild after one year than after 3 more years of CRAPPY football.

If Marrone can't win a MEDIOCRE 6 games this year why would anyone think he is a coach worth hanging your hat on?
If the Bills suck the next 3 years there's more of a reason than Marrone.
To start the list I would put EJ being a bust. Dareus being average, and Mario being a bum.
This is a QB driven league.

[better days]

And I think Op is right. If you guys don't expect the Bills to win a MEDIOCRE 6 games your standards are so LOW is it ridiculous.

You have come to ACCEPT LOSING & have a LOSERS MENTALITY.

[better days]

If the Bills suck the next 3 years there's more of a reason than Marrone.
To start the list I would put EJ being a bust. Dareus being average, and Mario being a bum.
This is a QB driven league.

Chan was able to win 6 games last year with Fitz as his QB.

ENOUGH SAID.

[Mr. Pink]

And I think Op is right. If you guys don't expect the Bills to win a MEDIOCRE 6 games your standards are so LOW is it ridiculous.

You have come to ACCEPT LOSING & have a LOSERS MENTALITY.

No, I don't expect them to win 6 games because they have a subpar roster of talent and a tough schedule.

[Albany,n.y.]

No, I am not saying the Bills will fire him. I am saying they should fire him if he can't win 6 games with this team baring further injuries.

He will have lost my faith in him as a HC & I will join Op in talking about the Bills continued mediocrity.

But as I said before, I don't expect that to happen because I expect the Bills to win at least 6 games.

Look at the records of some of the greatest coaches in NFL history & a lot of them won fewer than 6 games in their 1st season. Unless the coach is a total boob like Hank Bullough, you judge a coach by his 2nd season record, never his 1st. You would have fired a lot of the HOF coaches after their 1st season.

[better days]

No, I don't expect them to win 6 games because they have a subpar roster of talent and a tough schedule.

NOBODY KNOWS how tough the schedule will be untill the season plays out.

The Pats* were MUCH BETTER last year, so that is two games there that are EASIER this year, although the Bills lost the first game.

Chan WON 6 games with an even more subpar roster. I guess you don't think he should have been fired.

[TacklingDummy]

And I think Op is right. If you guys don't expect the Bills to win a MEDIOCRE 6 games your standards are so LOW is it ridiculous.

You have come to ACCEPT LOSING & have a LOSERS MENTALITY.

People said it couldn't get worse then Juaron, enter Gailey. Next up Marrone.

[better days]

Look at the records of some of the greatest coaches in NFL history & a lot of them won fewer than 6 games in their 1st season. Unless the coach is a total boob like Hank Bullough, you judge a coach by his 2nd season record, never his 1st. You would have fired a lot of the HOF coaches after their 1st season.

And a lot of them should have been fired after their first season.

You need to look at the rosters of those teams along with the coaches & the records from the year before they were hired.

Show me the teams that had BETTER records the year before that Coach was hired.

[better days]

Look at the records of some of the greatest coaches in NFL history & a lot of them won fewer than 6 games in their 1st season. Unless the coach is a total boob like Hank Bullough, you judge a coach by his 2nd season record, never his 1st. You would have fired a lot of the HOF coaches after their 1st season.

And with this team I would bet ANY Coach you can name that is a HOF Coach would win SIX GAMES MINIMUM.

[TacklingDummy]

Look at the records of some of the greatest coaches in NFL history & a lot of them won fewer than 6 games in their 1st season. Unless the coach is a total boob like Hank Bullough, you judge a coach by his 2nd season record, never his 1st. You would have fired a lot of the HOF coaches after their 1st season.

Now after looking at their records, look to see who their QB is.

On the other sucky hand lets look at bad teams, the Bills for example the past 13 years...

Coaches: Williams, Mularkey, Juaron, Gailey, and Marrone.
QB: Holcomb, Losman, Johnson, Van Pelt, Edwards, Brad Smith, Thigpen, Brohm, Kolb, Manuel, Tuel.

[Mr. Pink]

Now after looking at their records, look to see who their QB is.

On the other sucky hand lets look at bad teams, the Bills for example the past 13 years...

Coaches: Williams, Mularkey, Juaron, Gailey, and Marrone.
QB: Holcomb, Losman, Johnson, Van Pelt, Edwards, Brad Smith, Thigpen, Brohm, Kolb, Manuel, Tuel.

Mularkey was good for a season because he had Drew Bledsoe and drew a weak schedule.

[Mr. Pink]

NOBODY KNOWS how tough the schedule will be untill the season plays out.

The Pats* were MUCH BETTER last year, so that is two games there that are EASIER this year, although the Bills lost the first game.

Chan WON 6 games with an even more subpar roster. I guess you don't think he should have been fired.

The roster is worse today than it was the day Chan left.

Gilmore out, Byrd pissed, no Levitre, rookie wr's that don't impress anyone, even dumber offensive playcalling thus far, a system defensively that doesn't fit the talent - which takes time to build properly.

[Beebe's Kid]

The roster is worse today than it was the day Chan left.

Gilmore out, Byrd pissed, no Levitre, rookie wr's that don't impress anyone, even dumber offensive playcalling thus far, a system defensively that doesn't fit the talent - which takes time to build properly.

The rookie receivers comment was a little off-base. Goodwin impressed with his speed...sure it hasn't been after catching, but he is still impressively fast. Woods is also impressive, and if they throw at him more than 2 times in a game, he might start to really shine.

I would rather you threw at him when the game was on the line, as opposed to everybody's favorite WR.

The roster is worse, and maybe primarily because of Levitre, and the injuries to Byrd and Gilmore, but they will come back. Colin Brown has been hanging out here for a couple years and is no Andy Levitre.

The argument over firing Marrone is absurd, and not even the most reactionary owner would do such thing. It is fantasy land ****, and only BD would fire Marrone.

Marrone is going to get the same opportunity that has been afforded to the other coaches that have bought the ticket and taken the ride. If the Bills continue to draft the way they have, and EJ flames out...he will be shown the door too. If EJ works out...Marrone is a genius. The system is a big part of that too, but if people are ready to fire a coach after one year, do you think they will put that kind of analysis into it? Probably not. It will just be rah rah fan ****, and they'll be calling for a new QB and new coach...and to cut any player that actually wants to be paid competitively for their services, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

The best part is even if Marrone sucks, we'll be here talking about it, and while I haven't given the Bills a dollar in a while, they still get too much attention.

[Syderick]

I have to agree with Better Days on this. They've got to win at least 6 games to match last seasons total. If they get less wins they'd be going backwards.

[OpIv37]

I have to agree with Better Days on this. They've got to win at least 6 games to match last seasons total. If they get less wins they'd be going backwards.

New coach.
New OC
new DC
New offensive system
New defensive system
Rookie QB
Only one experienced WR

We are going backwards. Or, more accurately, we tore it down and are starting over. The goal was never to build on what happened last year.

[OpIv37]

And I think Op is right. If you guys don't expect the Bills to win a MEDIOCRE 6 games your standards are so LOW is it ridiculous.

You have come to ACCEPT LOSING & have a LOSERS MENTALITY.

You know that's not what I said. It's a loser mentality to be happy with almost not losing to the Patriots, especially when we were so close. It's not a loser mentality to accept the reality that this team doesn't have the talent to win 6 games.

[X-Era]

I'll admit- so far, the Patriots' problems at WR have hurt them more than I expected.

Here's the problem, though: they're 2-0 with a one game lead and a tiebreaker over the Jets. They will end be weekend with a tiebreaker and a 1 or 2 game lead over us and at least a tiebreaker over Miami.

They played like **** and are still dominating the division standings. They should easily pull 5 wins out of this division. They were blessed with two tune-up games.

If they can manage to go 5-5 or better in their non-division games, they'll still win the div easily.

They're the weakest they've been in a decade and all the Bills and Jets can do is lay down and die. And that's. BEFORE Gronk has come back.

The ****ing Pats will be in the playoffs again, and by that time their young WR's will have had 16 with Brady to get on the same page. Will they win the SB? I highly doubt it, but we will be waiting at least one more year for the Pats' demise.
The Pats will not fade until Brady and probably also Belicheck are gone.

I hate Marcia but he's a great HOF pussy QB. Hate it. But it's true.

[OpIv37]

The Pats will not fade until Brady and probably also Belicheck are gone.

I hate Marcia but he's a great HOF pussy QB. Hate it. But it's true.

He's the only player in the NFL that I want to see injured.

[Mr. Pink]

The rookie receivers comment was a little off-base. Goodwin impressed with his speed...sure it hasn't been after catching, but he is still impressively fast. Woods is also impressive, and if they throw at him more than 2 times in a game, he might start to really shine.

I would rather you threw at him when the game was on the line, as opposed to everybody's favorite WR.

The roster is worse, and maybe primarily because of Levitre, and the injuries to Byrd and Gilmore, but they will come back. Colin Brown has been hanging out here for a couple years and is no Andy Levitre.

The argument over firing Marrone is absurd, and not even the most reactionary owner would do such thing. It is fantasy land ****, and only BD would fire Marrone.

Marrone is going to get the same opportunity that has been afforded to the other coaches that have bought the ticket and taken the ride. If the Bills continue to draft the way they have, and EJ flames out...he will be shown the door too. If EJ works out...Marrone is a genius. The system is a big part of that too, but if people are ready to fire a coach after one year, do you think they will put that kind of analysis into it? Probably not. It will just be rah rah fan ****, and they'll be calling for a new QB and new coach...and to cut any player that actually wants to be paid competitively for their services, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

The best part is even if Marrone sucks, we'll be here talking about it, and while I haven't given the Bills a dollar in a while, they still get too much attention.

The time to really judge Marrone will be during next season. He's new to coaching at this level and has a rookie running his offensive show. I'm not particularly thrilled with the week 1 offense but hopefully through time it evolves as if we see that every week this year, ummm yuck. I'm guessing as he gets more experience he'll fine tune the offense to something that looks competent more than just one drive.

Defensively, we're just a mess and have been a mess since Gailey took over...now it's just an overpaid mess instead.

[Syderick]

New coach.
New OC
new DC
New offensive system
New defensive system
Rookie QB
Only one experienced WR

We are going backwards. Or, more accurately, we tore it down and are starting over. The goal was never to build on what happened last year.

I never said they should build upon last year. But that they should show something. They can't go 2-14 and pass it off as rebuilding. Teams have turned it around with new coaches, quarterbacks,..etc within a year or 2. Why do the Bills have wait to longer? Chan's first year here he goes 4-12 after 6-10 the previous season, whole lot of good that did.

[pmoon6]

Look at the records of some of the greatest coaches in NFL history & a lot of them won fewer than 6 games in their 1st season. Unless the coach is a total boob like Hank Bullough, you judge a coach by his 2nd season record, never his 1st. You would have fired a lot of the HOF coaches after their 1st season.Just to add first year head coach's records.

Tom Landry - 0-11-1 (Expansion team)

Chuck Noll - 1-13

Bill Walsh - 2-14

Jimmy Johnson - 1-15

Bill Parcells - 3-12-1

Bill Belichick (NE) 5-11

Paul Brown (Cin) 3-11 (expansion team)

Vince Lombardi went 7-5 his first year because most of the Championship team players were already there. Schula went 8-6 with the Colts for much the same reason.

I don't know why Better Days would hold Doug Marrone to a higher standard especially given the players he has right now and the fact that half the starting defensive backfield is injured. (Gilmore and Byrd)

[better days]

You know that's not what I said. It's a loser mentality to be happy with almost not losing to the Patriots, especially when we were so close. It's not a loser mentality to accept the reality that this team doesn't have the talent to win 6 games.

You have OFTEN said it is a loser mentality to accept LOSING. I'm not talking about the Pats* game at all.

I am talking about winning & losing which you have talked about often in the past.

To accept losing is a LOSERS mentality. You have said so in the past. Have you changed your mind about that Op?

[better days]

Just to add first year head coach's records.

Tom Landry - 0-11-1 (Expansion team)

Chuck Noll - 1-13

Bill Walsh - 2-14

Jimmy Johnson - 1-15

Bill Parcells - 3-12-1

Bill Belichick (NE) 5-11

Paul Brown (Cin) 3-11 (expansion team)

Vince Lombardi went 7-5 his first year because most of the Championship team players were already there. Schula went 8-6 with the Colts for much the same reason.

I don't know why Better Days would hold Doug Marrone to a higher standard especially given the players he has right now and the fact that half the starting defensive backfield is injured. (Gilmore and Byrd)

ANY of those Coaches named would win 6 games MINIMUM with this Bills team.

I am not saying Marrone needs to win the Super Bowl this year, or even make the playoffs.

6 wins is a LOW BAR to set & if Marrone can't reach that LOW bar he is a TERRIBLE HC & needs to be fired.

Again, I don't expect that to be the case, I am confident Marrone will win at least 6 games.

[better days]

The time to really judge Marrone will be during next season. He's new to coaching at this level and has a rookie running his offensive show. I'm not particularly thrilled with the week 1 offense but hopefully through time it evolves as if we see that every week this year, ummm yuck. I'm guessing as he gets more experience he'll fine tune the offense to something that looks competent more than just one drive.

Defensively, we're just a mess and have been a mess since Gailey took over...now it's just an overpaid mess instead.

Defensively, that was the Bills best game since Chan was hired.

Offensively, HUGE mistake to have CJ pound the ball between the tackles instead of having him run on the edges.

The biggest mistake was to have CJ in the game on the last drive instead of Fred.

[better days]

New coach.
New OC
new DC
New offensive system
New defensive system
Rookie QB
Only one experienced WR

We are going backwards. Or, more accurately, we tore it down and are starting over. The goal was never to build on what happened last year.

We jettisoned BAD players & IMPROVED the team.

EJ > Fitz

Woods> Jones

If the Coaching has IMPROVED as well, this team should win at least as many games as Chan did with a WORSE team last year.

[pmoon6]

ANY of those Coaches named would win 6 games MINIMUM with this Bills team.

I am not saying Marrone needs to win the Super Bowl this year, or even make the playoffs.

6 wins is a LOW BAR to set & if Marrone can't reach that LOW bar he is a TERRIBLE HC & needs to be fired.

Again, I don't expect that to be the case, I am confident Marrone will win at least 6 games.One of the problems with the Bills' has been getting rid of HCs after three years. The only one I was for was firing Chan Gailey because he lost the team. Hell, Mike Mularkey quit because of the abuse his family took from ass hole fans. You have to give Marrone and Whaley a little time to turn it around.

[better days]

One of the problems with the Bills' has been getting rid of HCs after three years. The only one I was for was firing Chan Gailey because he lost the team. Hell, Mike Mularkey quit because of the abuse his family took from ass hole fans. You have to give Marrone and Whaley a little time to turn it around.

Mularkey quit because the front office told him he would have to makes changes on his staff.

And what has he done since he quit the Bills? NOTHING!

For that matter what has any former HC done in that position since they left the Bills? NOTHING!

You think it would have been any better to keep any of those Coaches one day longer?

It is not like the Bills got rid of Belicheat. They got rid of MEDIOCRE HC's that have proved they are MEDIOCRE.

[cookie G]

One of the problems with the Bills' has been getting rid of HCs after three years. The only one I was for was firing Chan Gailey because he lost the team. Hell, Mike Mularkey quit because of the abuse his family took from ass hole fans. You have to give Marrone and Whaley a little time to turn it around.

The problem has been not selecting the right coach in the first place.

I always thought Williams was a bit overrated as a DC, but that's just me. He's never been given a HC since.

Mularkey lost the team in 2005 more than Gailey did last year. After the team lost Spikes, the defense collapsed. Instead of using the loss as a point to rally around, he chose to get into petty feuds with guys like Sam Adams. He's done little since then.

Jauron...with enough undersized players, he could build a mediocre pass defense, but was the offense's worst enemy. He might have had more success if he'd have learned to stay away from the offensive side of the ball. His offenses have historically...sucked. You can't expect to win many 9-6 games.

Frankly, I always felt a little sorry for Gailey. He did more with less on offense than any coach we've had for some time.

I find it funny that after he left, they finally came to the realization that they needed more talent at QB and WR....really? Ya think? You mean the cast of UDFA's as the WR corps isn't talented enough?

But he was given what he was given..I'm still impressed they did as much as they did. But that's just me.

Unlike Jauron, he seem a little too hands off on the defensive side of the ball. But the defense was always Buddy's concoction...there was so little return on such an investment made. If Gailey brought in a coach that could come close to the return on investment that the offense had...he'd still be coaching.

[Mr. Pink]

One of the problems with the Bills' has been getting rid of HCs after three years. The only one I was for was firing Chan Gailey because he lost the team. Hell, Mike Mularkey quit because of the abuse his family took from ass hole fans. You have to give Marrone and Whaley a little time to turn it around.

So in your opinion we should have kept Gregg Williams around longer? Dick Jauron too?

Anyway, what does it matter who the coach is? You think the NFL is fake. Does it matter who the coach is when it's all fake anyway?