Nix sucks...

[X-Era]

Except he gave us EJ, Woods, and Kiko from just this draft.

Not to mention Gilmore, Dareus, and Spiller.

[Night Train]

Hits and misses. Stay grounded.

Enjoy the win.

[X-Era]

Hits and misses. Stay grounded.

Enjoy the win.I am. But I'm looking at 3 solid rookie starters. I'm happy with two from each draft. I think it's real impressive.

[Albany,n.y.]

How much of this draft was Buddy & how much was Whaley & Marrone? We will never know, but I have to believe that Buddy wasn't running things as a lame duck.
Whoever was responsible, the team really did their homework on the QBs-they interviewed each guy & understood that if you have a million $ arm & a 10 cent brain-like JP (I wonder how much they actually talked with him & did he do his Yoda bit at the time) the guy can't make it in the NFL. One thing for sure, after talking with Manuel, they knew he had the brains & temperament to be an NFL QB-the rest is a guessing game, but you have to cover the basic bases. If there was a Russell or Leaf in this group, the process would have weeded him out.

[Crisis]

You do know you just inadvertently started a Dareus debate thread, right?

[X-Era]

You do know you just inadvertently started a Dareus debate thread, right?I'm alright with that. People expect DE sacks from a DT. Dareus is a solid starter.

[Novacane]

It looks like he may have went out with a bang.

[PromoTheRobot]

Except he gave us EJ, Woods, and Kiko from just this draft.

Not to mention Gilmore, Dareus, and Spiller.

And signed Mario and Lawson and traded Sheppard for Hughes.

[X-Era]

...and Cordy Glenn.

[OpIv37]

Except he gave us EJ, Woods, and Kiko from just this draft.

Not to mention Gilmore, Dareus, and Spiller.

This year's draft was Whaley.

3 good players from Nix in 3 years- wow, what a genius.

The only thing Nix did better than his predecessors was not whiff in the first round. The rest of his draft classes have been terrible.

[Mr. Pink]

This year's draft was Whaley.

3 good players from Nix in 3 years- wow, what a genius.

The only thing Nix did better than his predecessors was not whiff in the first round. The rest of his draft classes have been terrible.

He whiffed on Dareus. The other guys have been hits thus far.

[justasportsfan]

When these guys get us to the playoffs, then you start giving Nix props. So far we're 1-1. Too early .

[X-Era]

This year's draft was Whaley.

3 good players from Nix in 3 years- wow, what a genius.

The only thing Nix did better than his predecessors was not whiff in the first round. The rest of his draft classes have been terrible.
1) Check your Bills timeline
2) We've had much more than 3 hits in 3 years. You want proven 5+ year studs but that's obviously impossible since they are all under 3.

Nix has done a nice job. The Troup draft is the only one that's a miss... And even that one netted us Spiller.

[GvilleBills]

Nix was good. If he had picked Gronk instead, he'd be a god around Buffalo.

[JCBills]

Carrington was a good pick as well.

[OpIv37]

1) Check your Bills timeline
2) We've had much more than 3 hits in 3 years. You want proven 5+ year studs but that's obviously impossible since they are all under 3.

Nix has done a nice job. The Troup draft is the only one that's a miss... And even that one netted us Spiller.

Troup was far from his only miss.

I know officially Nix was in charge this year, but do you REALLY think the Bills would make Whaley GM and hamstring him with a 4th Nix draft? We may not have known as fans but the team had to know that Nix was on his way out before this draft. I have no way to prove it, but logically this has to be Whaley's draft with input from Nix.

[Mad Max]

Nix has had success and colossal failure. He hired Gailey, he extended Fitz. Both extra stupid moves (hindsight wasn't required). He has had a few good picks, but so far only one true difference maker in CJ. His legacy here is hitched to the current roster and the Marrone hire. If a couple more of his draftees turn into something special, and Marrone proves he belongs, then Nix gets anointed.

[justasportsfan]

This year's draft was Whaley.

3 good players from Nix in 3 years- wow, what a genius.

The only thing Nix did better than his predecessors was not whiff in the first round. The rest of his draft classes have been terrible.

NO! It was Nix. Whaley had input just like the last few years ,but whatever happens to this draft falls on Nix.

[GreedoII]

Nix was an idiot country bumpkin who was hired because Ralph recognized his name. That's it! Look it up. He hitched his wagon on a retread coach and a 7 round backup QB and got burned and he goes out into the sunset like he has a legacy here. LMAO. This years draft was not his. You were all made to think it was so he looks good in the end. This is how this organization rolls until the owner is no longer here.

[Bangarang]

Nix has had success and colossal failure. He hired Gailey, he extended Fitz. Both extra stupid moves (hindsight wasn't required). He has had a few good picks, but so far only one true difference maker in CJ. His legacy here is hitched to the current roster and the Marrone hire. If a couple more of his draftees turn into something special, and Marrone proves he belongs, then Nix gets anointed.

Cordy Glenn is a difference maker. Franchise LT without a doubt. Hasn't allowed a pressure yet.

[justasportsfan]

Nix was an idiot country bumpkin who was hired because Ralph recognized his name. That's it! Look it up. He hitched his wagon on a retread coach and a 7 round backup QB and got burned and he goes out into the sunset like he has a legacy here. LMAO. This years draft was not his. You were all made to think it was so he looks good in the end. This is how this organization rolls until the owner is no longer here.


Sorry. Russ and Whaley said Nix led the draft .He led the hiring of Marrone too. Unless you were there yourself, I'll listen to them.

And BTW, Nix hired Whaley .

[jdaltroy5]

I think I'm going to wait until the Bills make a playoff appearance with the core that he built before I anoint him the saviour.

Until then, he's just a guy that turned a 7-9 team into a 6-10 team.

[GreedoII]

Who cares if he hired Whaley. So you believe everyting they tell you eh? Poor guy....this team is run by a group of guys who took orders from an owner and now take orders from his cronies and bookkeepers to make sure his wishes were still met when he went senile. Open your eyes. This was Whaley's draft and you can tell too.


Sorry. Russ and Whaley said Nix led the draft .He led the hiring of Marrone too. Unless you were there yourself, I'll listen to them.

And BTW, Nix hired Whaley .

[justasportsfan]

Who cares if he hired Whaley. So you believe everyting they tell you eh? Poor guy....this team is run by a group of guys who took orders from an owner and now take orders from his cronies and bookkeepers to make sure his wishes were still met when he went senile. Open your eyes. This was Whaley's draft and you can tell too.


They stated publicly it was Nix. Are you telling me I should believe a MB poster instead? Who gets credit for hiring Whaley? Does Donahoe get credit for hiring Greg Williams and Mularkey?


Nix said he wanted to draft a franchise qb and they did. Whether it was Whaley who did the scouting I don't care, they did what NIx said they would do and they drafted EJ.

[GreedoII]

Okie Dokey...

In the end it doesn't matter. You're right...go BIILS


They stated publicly it was Nix. Are you telling me I should believe a MB poster instead? Nix said he wanted to draft a franchise qb and they did. Whether it was Whaley who did the scouting I don't care, they did what NIx said they would do and they drafted EJ.

[justasportsfan]

Okie Dokey...

In the end it doesn't matter. You're right...go BIILS
it matters when arguing who gets credit or who is to blame for failures. Guys like Troup was Nix fault too.

[Historian]

Leave the old guy alone.... After all, he does have his prostrate to worry about.

[OpIv37]

I'll never understand why some people insist on defending a guy who gave us Gailey, Wannstadt, and Fitzpatrick (who still counts as $7 million in dead cap next year)and never managed more than 6 wins in a season.

And if Nix gets credit for this draft, he takes the hit for Levitre and the Byrd fiasco. Can't have it both ways.

[justasportsfan]

I'll never understand why some people insist on defending a guy who gave us Gailey, Wannstadt, and Fitzpatrick (who still counts as $7 million in dead cap next year)and never managed more than 6 wins in a season.

And if Nix gets credit for this draft, he takes the hit for Levitre and the Byrd fiasco. Can't have it both ways.

I'm not defending him. He's responsible and is to blame for Gailey and Wanny too. It's his fault. As a mattter fo fact if EJ and Whaley fails , this is on NIx. But don't go making assumptions that contradict what people from the organization publicly claimed without bringing in your own sources.

Yes, he's at fault for Levitre too.

[trapezeus]

the guy also wasted two picks in consecutive years for kickers in the 6th round who went on to not kick for this team. potter isn't sticking with other teams either.
meanwhile, we never really got depth at key positions like OL and LB.

he also has a guy drafted in 2 of his 3 drafts where the guy wasn't on the team mid way through camp. those are some huge misses.

show me the baby, and i'll tell you who the parents are. show me the playoffs and we can debate who was the architect. As of right now, its the same titanic captains shuffling the chairs around.

[Historian]

Extended Kelsay too, didn't he?

Or was that Marv?

[OpIv37]

Extended Kelsay too, didn't he?

Or was that Marv?
Pretty sure it was both. I'll never understand why.

[gebobs]

Even the hits of the last few years will take some time to pan out.

Since he was hired as the Bills national scouting guru in '09, to the best of my knowledge...

Year...Picks...Made team...On team
2009.....8............8.................2
2010.....9............8.................4
2011.....9............6.................5
2012.....9............7.................6
2013.....8............8.................8

"Made team" and "On team" includes IR, practice squads, etc.

So every year, the Bills keep just about all their picks on the roster. A few were traded, some were cut, one free agent. About a third of total roster, including practice squad etc., was drafted since '09.

In that time, only Troup and Maybin stand out as busts for me. Dareus seems to be a solid guy but not at the level of his draft peers. Overall, I'd say Nix did better than average.

[gebobs]

Extended Kelsay too, didn't he?

Or was that Marv?

No, that was in '07. Nix was still in San diego.

[trapezeus]

dareus strikes me as super servicable. maybe not the total stud, but he isn't a gigantic liability. and in a defense that is doing its job, he isn't a weak link.

this is hte first year in a while where i expect a RB to be greeted at the LOS and taken down shortly thereafter. and i'm guessing mario's 4.5 sacks were aided by one on one situations where dareus was taking two blockers.

Dareus was a good pick when you consider that some of those better picks also have some troubles iwth the law. I think dareus can keep getting better.

[jdaltroy5]

No, that was in '07. Nix was still in San diego.
They extended him again in 2010.

[HAMMER]

No matter what The ***** says, Nix hit it the last two years. Gilmore and Glenn are studs. This year we have three impact players from our first three picks, Manuel looks like the right pick, Woods is a rookie that is playing like a veteran, Alonzo is looking like he might be the DROY. If you can't give Nix credit for his hits then don't rag on him for his misses. Dude will never be happy, NEVER.

[trapezeus]

the top 3 picks look good in the year they were drafted by week 3? that's the bar for being a great GM? and with picks in the top third of the draft?

Sounds like any of us could have been a good GM.

over his 3 years as GM, he's hovering around .400-.600 however you want to judge him. Some of his misses were huge. Troup # 3 in 2nd round when so many guys looked better than him. Aaron Williams when there were guys picked in the next 5 picks that did better.

He gets 1 draft out of 3 to be servicable and we are supposed to say he's great?

The ability of a buffalo team to get to 5-1 and stay winning is 1. it's coaching and 2. its depth. Maybe marrone is our answer for years to come. but the depth for 2013 is still piss poor. we haven't had a significant injury yet (knock on wood). if we lose a LB, a CB or an OL, it's going to be hard to keep winning.

[OpIv37]

No matter what The ***** says, Nix hit it the last two years. Gilmore and Glenn are studs. This year we have three impact players from our first three picks, Manuel looks like the right pick, Woods is a rookie that is playing like a veteran, Alonzo is looking like he might be the DROY. If you can't give Nix credit for his hits then don't rag on him for his misses. Dude will never be happy, NEVER.

I'll be happy if we ever win. 4-12, 6-10, 6-10 under Nix. Even if this draft turns out well, it doesn't excuse the previous 3. Plus you still have to account for Gailey, Wannstadt, Fitz, Levitre and Byrd. Oh, and lets not forget the Lynch situation and the way the kicker and punter situations were botched last year.

****ing a, two decent games (one of which we lost) and people forget 3 1/2 years of flubs by Nix, many of which we are still paying for.

[better days]

the top 3 picks look good in the year they were drafted by week 3? that's the bar for being a great GM? and with picks in the top third of the draft?

Sounds like any of us could have been a good GM.

over his 3 years as GM, he's hovering around .400-.600 however you want to judge him. Some of his misses were huge. Troup # 3 in 2nd round when so many guys looked better than him. Aaron Williams when there were guys picked in the next 5 picks that did better.

He gets 1 draft out of 3 to be servicable and we are supposed to say he's great?

The ability of a buffalo team to get to 5-1 and stay winning is 1. it's coaching and 2. its depth. Maybe marrone is our answer for years to come. but the depth for 2013 is still piss poor. we haven't had a significant injury yet (knock on wood). if we lose a LB, a CB or an OL, it's going to be hard to keep winning.

How are you supposed to build depth when you have to first build the front line? Nix has done that which is the best that could be expected from him in his time as GM.

Nix left the Bills in MUCH BETTER shape than he found it in when he arrived.

[justasportsfan]

He gets 1 draft out of 3 to be servicable and we are supposed to say he's great?

who's saying that? No. one.

[OpIv37]

How are you supposed to build depth when you have to first build the front line? Nix has done that which is the best that could be expected from him in his time as GM.

Nix left the Bills in MUCH BETTER shape than he found it in when he arrived.
According to you. He still got us to 6-10 last year and we started the season by losing to a team that, according to you, lost all their talent and is on the verge of collapse.

[better days]

According to you. He still got us to 6-10 last year and we started the season by losing to a team that, according to you, lost all their talent and is on the verge of collapse.

OK. Nix hired Chan who hired Wanny. MISTAKE there. On the other hand as I have said before, when Chan was hired, the pool was very small for HC's willing to come to Buffalo.

BUT going forward, this team has TALENT like it has not had in YEARS. And that is thanks to Nix.

I can't wait for this team to shut you up along with the other pessimists that love to rain on EVERYTHING.

[PTI]

Hahaha, NFL.com jumped the Bills all the way to 21!!!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000246215/article/power-rankings-week-3-seahawks-claim-top-spot-giants-fall?campaign=Facebook_writers_gharrison

THey have Redskins and Giants way too low, IMO. Article has this funny thing in it:

Buddy Nix must be cackling at a Cracker Barrel somewhere down South. Is it fair to say the Buffalo Bills (http://www.nfl.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF) have a quarterback in EJ Manuel (http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/profile)?

[Owen DeBoard]

Hahaha, NFL.com jumped the Bills all the way to 21!!!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000246215/article/power-rankings-week-3-seahawks-claim-top-spot-giants-fall?campaign=Facebook_writers_gharrison

THey have Redskins and Giants way too low, IMO. Article has this funny thing in it:
Ill give you the Giants but the Redskins are where they belong. They have one of the worst Defenses in the league and RGIII is just another average QB if he cant use his legs.

Buddy Nix must be cackling at a Cracker Barrel somewhere down South. Is it fair to say the Buffalo Bills (http://www.nfl.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF) have a quarterback in EJ Manuel (http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/profile)?

[Owen DeBoard]

I agree about the Giants but the Redskins are where they should be. Their Defense is one of the worst in the league and RGIII is just another average QB if he can use his legs.

[Ed]

I like the Aaron Williams pick more now that he's been moved to safety. He seems like a good fit for Pettines D.

Nix has had his share of hits and misses, but I at least liked his approach of targeting top players from the better college conferences. Before Nix we seemed to draft from the Big 10 too much.

[feldspar]

This year's draft was Whaley.


You don't know that.

GMs NEVER operate in a vacuum, either. It's ALWAYS a concerted effort by lots of people. Nix gets as much credit (or blame) here as he did any other year he was the GM. He WAS the GM of the Buffalo Bills during this year's draft. If the Bills didn't like him, they wouldn't be keeping him around as a consultant right now.

[better days]

Troup was far from his only miss.

I know officially Nix was in charge this year, but do you REALLY think the Bills would make Whaley GM and hamstring him with a 4th Nix draft? We may not have known as fans but the team had to know that Nix was on his way out before this draft. I have no way to prove it, but logically this has to be Whaley's draft with input from Nix.

MORE BS from you. You refuse to give Nix any credit for the draft picks before he was the named GM, but now you want to give credit to Whaley before he is the named GM.

Just TOTAL BS because you don't like Nix.

[justasportsfan]

No matter what The ***** says, Nix hit it the last two years. Gilmore and Glenn are studs. This year we have three impact players from our first three picks, Manuel looks like the right pick, Woods is a rookie that is playing like a veteran, Alonzo is looking like he might be the DROY. If you can't give Nix credit for his hits then don't rag on him for his misses. Dude will never be happy, NEVER.

we won so some people will find something else to complain about.

[OpIv37]

MORE BS from you. You refuse to give Nix any credit for the draft picks before he was the named GM, but now you want to give credit to Whaley before he is the named GM.

Just TOTAL BS because you don't like Nix.
I don't like Nix because he was terrible. I already went through his drafts pick by pick and showed you how bad they are.

And if this organization really let Nix draft knowing Whaley would take over, they're dumber than I thought because they set Whaley up to fail.

[OpIv37]

OK. Nix hired Chan who hired Wanny. MISTAKE there. On the other hand as I have said before, when Chan was hired, the pool was very small for HC's willing to come to Buffalo.

BUT going forward, this team has TALENT like it has not had in YEARS. And that is thanks to Nix.

I can't wait for this team to shut you up along with the other pessimists that love to rain on EVERYTHING.
Lmao... I can't wait for that to happen either. But someone always says this and it never does.

And btw I'm not raining on anything. Results are results. Blaming me is shooting the messenger.

Unbelievable. You get on my case but defend Nix. Guess what? Nothing I do or say will ever have any effect whatsoever on how the team does. Nix got us a 16-32 record and hamstrung us with Fitz's dead cap. Your frustrations are greatly misplaced.

[justasportsfan]

And if this organization really let Nix draft knowing Whaley would take over, they're dumber than I thought because they set Whaley up to fail.

Not if Whaleys input was in on it.

[better days]

I don't like Nix because he was terrible. I already went through his drafts pick by pick and showed you how bad they are.

And if this organization really let Nix draft knowing Whaley would take over, they're dumber than I thought because they set Whaley up to fail.


I went through the Bills draft picks & showed you how GOOD they are.

How did it set Whaley up to fail with a GREAT Draft?

[trapezeus]

who's saying that? No. one.

it's a tongue in cheek original post.

I still think the best you can say buddy is over the 3 years is batting .600 and at worst, .300. The two kickers, taking tank and a lineman that never saw it through TC, the easley project was a 3 year project to have a ST.

I think the bills are different from jauron, but jauron got skill players in rounds 3-7 and got them to play up a little. Chan never did and those picks were just wasted on a team that couldn't afford it.

if this is really a year where 4-5 guys pan out and the next one can be as good and we got a QB, the rebuild should be very quick from there.

[feldspar]

I don't like Nix because he was terrible. I already went through his drafts pick by pick and showed you how bad they are.

And if this organization really let Nix draft knowing Whaley would take over, they're dumber than I thought because they set Whaley up to fail.

Have you read Doug Whaley's job description since he was brought to the Bills?

Do you honestly believe that Nix made Whaley Assistant GM, and then gave the guy ZERO responsibility? Are you trying to suggest that Whaley is not responsible IN ANY WAY for the 3 drafts prior to this one? If you believe that, then you should also give Nix ALL the credit in this year's draft as well. The scouts have responsibilities too. Nix said all along that his group generally comes to agreements, and work in conjunction with one another. In other words, the group was on the same page.

Who are you to sit there and suggest that Whaley wasn't on board with the Troup pick, for example? Nix never just picked whoever the hell he wanted in the face of strong opposition in the War Room...that didn't really happen, by all accounts. The process was always described as a group effort, and that's not uncommon.

In fact, if Whaley performs well as GM, you'll have Nix to thank for that in a lot of ways.

[better days]

Lmao... I can't wait for that to happen either. But someone always says this and it never does.

And btw I'm not raining on anything. Results are results. Blaming me is shooting the messenger.

Unbelievable. You get on my case but defend Nix. Guess what? Nothing I do or say will ever have any effect whatsoever on how the team does. Nix got us a 16-32 record and hamstrung us with Fitz's dead cap. Your frustrations are greatly misplaced.

Your constant *****ing about BS that is not true does not affect how the team does, but it does affect & infect this board.

[justasportsfan]

I don't like Nix because he was terrible. I already went through his drafts pick by pick and showed you how bad they are.

And if this organization really let Nix draft knowing Whaley would take over, they're dumber than I thought because they set Whaley up to fail.


Have you read Doug Whaley's job description since he was brought to the Bills?

Do you honestly believe that Nix made Whaley Assistant GM, and then gave the guy ZERO responsibility? Are you trying to suggest that Whaley is not responsible IN ANY WAY for the 3 drafts prior to this one? If you believe that, then you should also give Nix ALL the credit in this year's draft as well. The scouts have responsibilities too. Nix said all along that his group generally comes to agreements, and work in conjunction with one another. In other words, the group was on the same page.

Who are you to sit there and suggest that Whaley wasn't on board with the Troup pick, for example? Nix never just picked whoever the hell he wanted in the face of strong opposition in the War Room...that didn't really happen, by all accounts. The process was always described as a group effort, and that's not uncommon.

In fact, if Whaley performs well as GM, you'll have Nix to thank for that in a lot of ways.

OP has his own sources even though Whaley was Nixs top college evaluator.

[OpIv37]

I went through the Bills draft picks & showed you how GOOD they are.

How did it set Whaley up to fail with a GREAT Draft?

Lmao- criticize a draft pick from 2 years ago and you say he needs more time. Yet, two games in (one of which we lost) you're already calling this a great draft?

Maybe the blind fly landed on **** this time (maybe not- time will tell). But Nix's draft history suggests that he'd set Gailey up to fail.

And if you consider that "good" drafting, you're nuts. In 3 drafts, he found only one true star in Spiller (maybe Gilmore- jury's still out). And we have no depth because a huge portion of his mid-late round picks are so bad they're not even on the team so far. The only reason you think Nix is good at drafting is because he doesn't have a Maybin-esque first round whiff.

[OpIv37]

Have you read Doug Whaley's job description since he was brought to the Bills?

Do you honestly believe that Nix made Whaley Assistant GM, and then gave the guy ZERO responsibility? Are you trying to suggest that Whaley is not responsible IN ANY WAY for the 3 drafts prior to this one? If you believe that, then you should also give Nix ALL the credit in this year's draft as well. The scouts have responsibilities too. Nix said all along that his group generally comes to agreements, and work in conjunction with one another. In other words, the group was on the same page.
I
Who are you to sit there and suggest that Whaley wasn't on board with the Troup pick, for example? Nix never just picked whoever the hell he wanted in the face of strong opposition in the War Room...that didn't really happen, by all accounts. The process was always described as a group effort, and that's not uncommon.

In fact, if Whaley performs well as GM, you'll have Nix to thank for that in a lot of ways.

Well I'd like to think that if Whaley had blood on his hands from the last 3 drafts, the Bills would be smart enough to NOT promote him. But, this is the Bills we are talking about.....

[GreedoII]

We were rebuilding when he was hired and 3 yrs later rebuilding again. That is failure but he tip toes out of here looking like a hero "drafting" EJ. I will never give this clown anything but a kick in the arse on his way out.

[feldspar]

Well I'd like to think that if Whaley had blood on his hands from the last 3 drafts, the Bills would be smart enough to NOT promote him. But, this is the Bills we are talking about.....

What are you talking about? There is no "if," unless you think that Whaley is not be held accountable for anything and had zero responsibility. That idea is simply ridiculous.

What do you expect from a draft, anyway? A decent draft has your team coming away with a couple of few quality starters, and a role player or two if you are lucky. It takes a while to know what you really got most times. I'd say that Nix left the team with better talent than the Bills had when he arrived.

Half the battle is coaching and QB

[justasportsfan]

I don't like Nix because he was terrible. I already went through his drafts pick by pick and showed you how bad they are.

And if this organization really let Nix draft knowing Whaley would take over, they're dumber than I thought because they set Whaley up to fail.


Well I'd like to think that if Whaley had blood on his hands from the last 3 drafts, the Bills would be smart enough to NOT promote him. But, this is the Bills we are talking about.....

Only time will tell if the bills were stupid to draft ,Ej, hire ,Marrone ,etc. We can blame the bills and Whaley

- - - Updated - - -


I don't like Nix because he was terrible. I already went through his drafts pick by pick and showed you how bad they are.

And if this organization really let Nix draft knowing Whaley would take over, they're dumber than I thought because they set Whaley up to fail.


Well I'd like to think that if Whaley had blood on his hands from the last 3 drafts, the Bills would be smart enough to NOT promote him. But, this is the Bills we are talking about.....

Only time will tell if the bills were stupid to draft ,Ej, hire ,Marrone ,etc. We can blame the bills and Whaley

[better days]

Lmao- criticize a draft pick from 2 years ago and you say he needs more time. Yet, two games in (one of which we lost) you're already calling this a great draft?

Maybe the blind fly landed on **** this time (maybe not- time will tell). But Nix's draft history suggests that he'd set Gailey up to fail.

And if you consider that "good" drafting, you're nuts. In 3 drafts, he found only one true star in Spiller (maybe Gilmore- jury's still out). And we have no depth because a huge portion of his mid-late round picks are so bad they're not even on the team so far. The only reason you think Nix is good at drafting is because he doesn't have a Maybin-esque first round whiff.

AGAIN TOTAL BS on your part. EVERYONE in the NATIONAL Media AGREES the Bills are a TALENTED team.

He has found a SUPERSTAR in Spiller. He found STARS in Manuel, Gilmore, Glenn, Woods, Wood, Goodwin, Alonso.

He has also found through the draft & FA others that are GOOD Starters & Role players.

You DON"T KNOW what you are talking about & before this season is over, EVERYONE on this board will be laughing at you & your STUPID hate on Nix.

[BuffaloRedleg]

AGAIN TOTAL BS on your part. EVERYONE in the NATIONAL Media AGREES the Bills are a TALENTED team.

He has found a SUPERSTAR in Spiller. He found STARS in Manuel, Gilmore, Glenn, Woods, Wood, Goodwin, Alonso.

He has also found through the draft & FA others that are GOOD Starters & Role players.

You DON"T KNOW what you are talking about & before this season is over, EVERYONE on this board will be laughing at you & your STUPID hate on Nix.

Well, at the end of the day none of that matters unless we start winning.

The Chiefs had like 6 pro bowlers last year or something and we know how that went for them.

The assembly of talent is not the end and no GM should get credit based on that. They get paid to assemble talent that wins. We shall see over the next few years if his drafts payed off, but it is WAY too early right now to anoint this team anything other than a work in progress.

[OpIv37]

What are you talking about? There is no "if," unless you think that Whaley is not be held accountable for anything and had zero responsibility. That idea is simply ridiculous.

What do you expect from a draft, anyway? A decent draft has your team coming away with a couple of few quality starters, and a role player or two if you are lucky. It takes a while to know what you really got most times. I'd say that Nix left the team with better talent than the Bills had when he arrived.

Half the battle is coaching and QB
I expect finding more than one star in 3 drafts.

I expect mid-late round picks to be decent back ups instead of being off the team in a year or two, if they make it at all.

I expect the quality of the drafts to get us more than 6 wins when you have 3 full drafts to get it done.

[OpIv37]

AGAIN TOTAL BS on your part. EVERYONE in the NATIONAL Media AGREES the Bills are a TALENTED team.

He has found a SUPERSTAR in Spiller. He found STARS in Manuel, Gilmore, Glenn, Woods, Wood, Goodwin, Alonso.

He has also found through the draft & FA others that are GOOD Starters & Role players.

You DON"T KNOW what you are talking about & before this season is over, EVERYONE on this board will be laughing at you & your STUPID hate on Nix.
Lmao- the national media? They don't pay enough attention to us to know which way is up. Hell, you usually complain that they don't know what they're talking about because they rip on us.

Oh, and most of the power rankings still have us below 25, and going to the season tons of media guys had us at 30. so I don't know where you're getting this complete bull**** that the media thinks this is a talented team.

Lmao at saying ANYONE from this draft is a star after two games. No objectivity. Tons of players have had two good games then faded into oblivion.

Nix gave us a load of ****. Six wins. 16-32 in 3 years. Bad drafts, bad FA's with the possible exception of Mario and even worse coaches.

My "hate" isn't for Nix. My hate is for losing, and we have a LOT of it because of Nix. But, you think this is a good team, and the only way to do that is to delude yourself about the quality of Nix's contributions. "fans" like you who defend utter mediocrity like Nix deserve the losing.

[better days]

Lmao- the national media? They don't pay enough attention to us to know which way is up. Hell, you usually complain that they don't know what they're talking about because they rip on us.

Oh, and most of the power rankings still have us below 25, and going to the season tons of media guys had us at 30. so I don't know where you're getting this complete bull**** that the media thinks this is a talented team.

Lmao at saying ANYONE from this draft is a star after two games. No objectivity. Tons of players have had two good games then faded into oblivion.

Nix gave us a load of ****. Six wins. 16-32 in 3 years. Bad drafts, bad FA's with the possible exception of Mario and even worse coaches.

My "hate" isn't for Nix. My hate is for losing, and we have a LOT of it because of Nix. But, you think this is a good team, and the only way to do that is to delude yourself about the quality of Nix's contributions. "fans" like you who defend utter mediocrity like Nix deserve the losing.

Show me where I have complained about the national Media & their lack of attention.

I am smart enough to know that until the Bills WIN like they did in the Kelly years, NOBODY will GIVE attention to the Bills.

That does not mean they don't pay attention to the Bills. They just don't give the Bills any air time because it does not equal ratings.

Until the Bills are so good they can't be ignored, the only attention they will get on the National level is when they play a BIG market team.

Some TALENTED players like Ickey Woods have been injured & faded into oblivion, BUT I will bet you all my ZONE BUCS, that unless an injury is involved, EJ Manuel & Robert Woods will be talked about as GOOD players at the end of the year.

[feldspar]

I expect finding more than one star in 3 drafts.

LOL at this. I expect you are talking about CJ Spiller, who nobody would have called a star until last year...his third year, which happened to be Nix's first draft. You've already ruled out Glimore being "star?" Hell, even Cordy Glenn could wind up being a star, he's been playing pretty well as a youngster so far. Dareus could wind up being a star at an important yet unsexy position. Aaron Williams may pan out big-time at Safety, which is where he should have been playing all along.


I expect mid-late round picks to be decent back ups instead of being off the team in a year or two, if they make it at all.

Do you even follow the results of other teams' draft picks in these categories? I don't think that the Bills have lost more than most teams here. There is a thing called player development. You see what Searcy did in week 1? Have you been paying attention to Alex Carrington? Is the book written about guys like Bradham or Ron Brooks, who has missed games due to injury? Is Chris Hairston not decent depth?

There are more.


I expect the quality of the drafts to get us more than 6 wins when you have 3 full drafts to get it done.

If you know anything, you know that players often take time to develop. And if you suggest that such-and-such automatically sucks (without giving him proper time to come through) because the Bills have a history of mediocrity, then you are just being lazy in your thinking.

And you are simply a horsepud if you think that you can just discredit Nix in every way from this year's draft class. This is his draft class as well. Shall we anoint or discard these guys already too?

...and we are just talking about the draft here. There is a lot more player movement to being a GM than that.

If we got the QB and coaching down here, that will go a long way.

[X-Era]

I expect finding more than one star in 3 drafts.

I expect mid-late round picks to be decent back ups instead of being off the team in a year or two, if they make it at all.

I expect the quality of the drafts to get us more than 6 wins when you have 3 full drafts to get it done.
I think we should be calibrated to the rest of the league. NE has a horrible history. Many good teams cut their mid-round picks.

Agree on the last point though. To be fair, Galey was fired. Nix brought in Marrone.

[GreedoII]

Drafting TJ Graham in the in the 3rd or 2nd(don't recall) makes me hate him. Another example of overvaluing his QB to get it to him and he;s still useless now...


Lmao- the national media? They don't pay enough attention to us to know which way is up. Hell, you usually complain that they don't know what they're talking about because they rip on us.

Oh, and most of the power rankings still have us below 25, and going to the season tons of media guys had us at 30. so I don't know where you're getting this complete bull**** that the media thinks this is a talented team.

Lmao at saying ANYONE from this draft is a star after two games. No objectivity. Tons of players have had two good games then faded into oblivion.

Nix gave us a load of ****. Six wins. 16-32 in 3 years. Bad drafts, bad FA's with the possible exception of Mario and even worse coaches.

My "hate" isn't for Nix. My hate is for losing, and we have a LOT of it because of Nix. But, you think this is a good team, and the only way to do that is to delude yourself about the quality of Nix's contributions. "fans" like you who defend utter mediocrity like Nix deserve the losing.

[better days]

Well, at the end of the day none of that matters unless we start winning.

The Chiefs had like 6 pro bowlers last year or something and we know how that went for them.

The assembly of talent is not the end and no GM should get credit based on that. They get paid to assemble talent that wins. We shall see over the next few years if his drafts payed off, but it is WAY too early right now to anoint this team anything other than a work in progress.

Well, I have been saying Coaching MATTERS. Yes Nix hired Chan, but as I said, he had a SMALL pool of candidates to pick from because nobody wanted the Bills job due to lack of talent on the team.

When Marrone was hired, the pool of candidates was much larger because the talent is now much better on the team.

Of course the GM gets credit for the talent he brings to the team, but I agree ultimately the team has to win & the HC is a big part of that.

That is the reason I have been saying if Marrone is not a good enough Coach to win a mediocre 6 games this year, he should be fired.

But again as I have said, I do expect him to win 6 games minimum. 1 down, 5 to go.

Nix has left this team MUCH BETTER than it was when he was hired.

[OpIv37]

I think we should be calibrated to the rest of the league. NE has a horrible history. Many good teams cut their mid-round picks.

Agree on the last point though. To be fair, Galey was fired. Nix brought in Marrone.

To be fair, we've been picking 15-20 picks higher than NE for the last 13 years, including the 3 drafts Nix did. So, that isn't a good standard because the talent pool is richer for our picks than theirs.

[OpIv37]

LOL at this. I expect you are talking about CJ Spiller, who nobody would have called a star until last year...his third year, which happened to be Nix's first draft. You've already ruled out Glimore being "star?" Hell, even Cordy Glenn could wind up being a star, he's been playing pretty well as a youngster so far. Dareus could wind up being a star at an important yet unsexy position. Aaron Williams may pan out big-time at Safety, which is where he should have been playing all along.



Do you even follow the results of other teams' draft picks in these categories? I don't think that the Bills have lost more than most teams here. There is a thing called player development. You see what Searcy did in week 1? Have you been paying attention to Alex Carrington? Is the book written about guys like Bradham or Ron Brooks, who has missed games due to injury? Is Chris Hairston not decent depth?

There are more.



If you know anything, you know that players often take time to develop. And if you suggest that such-and-such automatically sucks (without giving him proper time to come through) because the Bills have a history of mediocrity, then you are just being lazy in your thinking.

And you are simply a horsepud if you think that you can just discredit Nix in every way from this year's draft class. This is his draft class as well. Shall we anoint or discard these guys already too?

...and we are just talking about the draft here. There is a lot more player movement to being a GM than that.

If we got the QB and coaching down here, that will go a long way.

I don't have the time or patience to address this point by point from my phone so let me just say this for now:

Plenty of teams have turned it around in 3 years or less, but we have to wait 3 years for players to develop? Meanwhile, Levitre and possibly Byrd walk. Translation: new holes open up before the old holes are sufficiently filled, and the perpetual rebuilding cycle continues.

And for the record, I said in another post that Gilmore could be a star but the jury's still out. I was just too lazy to write it out again in the post you quoted.

[better days]

To be fair, we've been picking 15-20 picks higher than NE for the last 13 years, including the 3 drafts Nix did. So, that isn't a good standard because the talent pool is richer for our picks than theirs.

Well, due to GOOD trades, like the trade of Cassel, & the trades for picks in next years drafts, the Pats* have been in GOOD position to draft MANY times over those years.

That is the fact. They were in position, but did not do a good job of drafting.

[OpIv37]

Well, due to GOOD trades, like the trade of Cassel, & the trades for picks in next years drafts, the Pats* have been in GOOD position to draft MANY times over those years.

That is the fact. They were in position, but did not do a good job of drafting.

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Let's say NE is bad at drafting and Nix was good at it. Well, they were in the AFC championship game last year and we had six wins. They're 2-0 with two div wins and we're 1-1 with a loss to them.

They don't give trophies for drafting better than NE. They give trophies for winning, and whatever your hero Nix did, 3+ years later it still hasn't led to wins.

[better days]

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Let's say NE is bad at drafting and Nix was good at it. Well, they were in the AFC championship game last year and we had six wins. They're 2-0 with two div wins and we're 1-1 with a loss to them.

They don't give trophies for drafting better than NE. They give trophies for winning, and whatever your hero Nix did, 3+ years later it still hasn't led to wins.

The time is coming Op when the Bills will be winning & I have a feeling that time is soon at hand.

And the time is coming to an end for Tommy boy & the Pats*

It is going to be GREAT to see the Bills on the rise as the Pats* go into decline.

[justasportsfan]

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Let's say NE is bad at drafting and Nix was good at it. Well, they were in the AFC championship game last year and we had six wins. They're 2-0 with two div wins and we're 1-1 with a loss to them.


its because of coaching that NE has won a lot, not because they draft well. Their best talent who responsible for those wins is someone the drafted in the 6th . On the flipside, Nix's drafts were held back by his bad decision for picking Chan.

[feldspar]

I don't have the time or patience to address this point by point from my phone so let me just say this for now:

Plenty of teams have turned it around in 3 years or less, but we have to wait 3 years for players to develop? Meanwhile, Levitre and possibly Byrd walk. Translation: new holes open up before the old holes are sufficiently filled, and the perpetual rebuilding cycle continues.

And for the record, I said in another post that Gilmore could be a star but the jury's still out. I was just too lazy to write it out again in the post you quoted.

The jury is still out on any number of guys that the Bills drafted. That's kinda the whole point.

The teams that turn it around quickly invariably picked the right coach and/or quarterback...usually both. Those are the most important things, and it's clear that Nix did not do that with Gailey and Fitzpatrick. Hopefully, he got it right with Marrone and Manuel before he left. Look at how much better this defense is under Pettine so far.

Guys like Urbik, Pears, and Chandler may not be "stars," but they were decent FA pickups. You don't build a team of stars anymore anyway, not in the free agency era. The Bills are potentially loaded on the defensive side of the ball. The o-line is pretty solid save for Colin Brown, but he'll lose his job very soon when Legursky returns. The skill positions are looking very promising...lost of young guys in there (if not rookies).

We are hedging on coaching and QB, though. Make no mistake...really tough to win consistently in this league without those things. And those things are hard to come by. Everybody is after those things, so the planets have to align for you to get them. They aren't exactly falling from the sky, growing on trees, or whatever the ***.

[jdaltroy5]

Well, I have been saying Coaching MATTERS. Yes Nix hired Chan, but as I said, he had a SMALL pool of candidates to pick from because nobody wanted the Bills job due to lack of talent on the team.

When Marrone was hired, the pool of candidates was much larger because the talent is now much better on the team.This is just unequivocal nonsense. There were Super Bowl Champion Head Coaches that said that they would be glad to coach the Bills but they were never contacted. The only reason that Nix had a small pool of candidates to pick from was because he narrowed it down himself. He said that he wanted an offensive guy that had NFL head coaching experience. There aren't exactly a lot of those candidates just laying around unemployed.

There are maybe 5 openings per year for a head coaching gig and almost all of them are going to be for a team that doesn't have a lot of talent. Hint: that's why they are looking for a new head coach.


Nix has left this team MUCH BETTER than it was when he was hired.I wouldn't say MUCH better. They have the potential to be better, but this team still has a lot of weaknesses.

Some areas were strengthened at the cost of other positions.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Nix's decision to completely re-vamp the defense three times in 4 offseasons is what defines his tenure IMO. Constantly cycling players in and out because they didn't fit "the system." Meanwhile he was passing on major offensive talents like Green, Jones, Wilson, Kaepernick, Gronk, Decker. etc to fill the holes. His 2013 draft has looked good so far, but I still think this team is a year away from anything serious.

[DesertFox24]

This is the make or break year for Nix's second draft.

The first draft has yielded Spiller and Carrington who are starters. Easley is a good special teams guy and Arthur Moats has played well both on teams and had a good game last week (see Joe Bs all 22 breakdown). Drafting Troup over other good players is the only real blimish from this draft, but I believe that was a need pick instead of best player as they were trying to implement a 34 from a small 43 team.

2011 yielded Dareus, Aaron Williams are starters and are playing quite well (again see all 22). What you guys have to realize is that Marcel is now our nose tackle and is not going to be a stat monster, we need to compare him to Vince Wilfork that is the guy we need Dareus to become and as you all know he is not a stat guy either. Williams seems to have found a home at Safety and has had two solid games. Searcy, Hairston, Rogers are depth players and for the DBs not that great. Hairston was supposed to push Pears for starting RT, so have to see about him next year.

2012 yielded Gilmore and Glenn who are both very good players and could become top 5s at their position. Graham does get open on his go routes but we have not hit on them yet and I still think he will develop into a solid WR. He will always unfairly be compared to Russel Wilson, but before we say Nix missed lets see Russell play well for more than a half of a season. I think the read option is going to go away soon as QBs are going to start getting hurt. Bradham and Brooks we have no idea yet.

2013 yielded EJ, Woods, and Alonso so 3 starters.

So in total Nix got us 9 starters that we all agree are starters and a couple of key reservers who are starting due to injury.

Also the only reason the Pats are good is because of Brady in todays NFL a person like me who has never coached football could probably coach the Pats to the playoffs. Brady is one of the top 3 QBs ever and that is why they win, when he retires Bill will retire as well because he will know they will suck much like Levy when Kelly retired.

[jdaltroy5]

This is the make or break year for Nix's second draft.

The first draft has yielded Spiller and Carrington who are starters. Easley is a good special teams guy and Arthur Moats has played well both on teams and had a good game last week (see Joe Bs all 22 breakdown). Drafting Troup over other good players is the only real blimish from this draft, but I believe that was a need pick instead of best player as they were trying to implement a 34 from a small 43 team.

2011 yielded Dareus, Aaron Williams are starters and are playing quite well (again see all 22). What you guys have to realize is that Marcel is now our nose tackle and is not going to be a stat monster, we need to compare him to Vince Wilfork that is the guy we need Dareus to become and as you all know he is not a stat guy either. Williams seems to have found a home at Safety and has had two solid games. Searcy, Hairston, Rogers are depth players and for the DBs not that great. Hairston was supposed to push Pears for starting RT, so have to see about him next year.

2012 yielded Gilmore and Glenn who are both very good players and could become top 5s at their position. Graham does get open on his go routes but we have not hit on them yet and I still think he will develop into a solid WR. He will always unfairly be compared to Russel Wilson, but before we say Nix missed lets see Russell play well for more than a half of a season. I think the read option is going to go away soon as QBs are going to start getting hurt. Bradham and Brooks we have no idea yet.

2013 yielded EJ, Woods, and Alonso so 3 starters.

So in total Nix got us 9 starters that we all agree are starters and a couple of key reservers who are starting due to injury.

Also the only reason the Pats are good is because of Brady in todays NFL a person like me who has never coached football could probably coach the Pats to the playoffs. Brady is one of the top 3 QBs ever and that is why they win, when he retires Bill will retire as well because he will know they will suck much like Levy when Kelly retired.That was a good breakdown, however, my only qualm is that I wouldn't rate a GM on how many "starters" he drafts. If the team is crappy and they keep changing the scheme every year, of course the draft is going to yield a lot of starters.

Look at just about any roster in the league. Anyone that has gone through a re-build is going to have a roster made up predominantly of players drafted in the last 4 years.

It's what that roster actually does that you can judge them on.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

This is the make or break year for Nix's second draft.

The first draft has yielded Spiller and Carrington who are starters. Easley is a good special teams guy and Arthur Moats has played well both on teams and had a good game last week (see Joe Bs all 22 breakdown). Drafting Troup over other good players is the only real blimish from this draft, but I believe that was a need pick instead of best player as they were trying to implement a 34 from a small 43 team.

2011 yielded Dareus, Aaron Williams are starters and are playing quite well (again see all 22). What you guys have to realize is that Marcel is now our nose tackle and is not going to be a stat monster, we need to compare him to Vince Wilfork that is the guy we need Dareus to become and as you all know he is not a stat guy either. Williams seems to have found a home at Safety and has had two solid games. Searcy, Hairston, Rogers are depth players and for the DBs not that great. Hairston was supposed to push Pears for starting RT, so have to see about him next year.

2012 yielded Gilmore and Glenn who are both very good players and could become top 5s at their position. Graham does get open on his go routes but we have not hit on them yet and I still think he will develop into a solid WR. He will always unfairly be compared to Russel Wilson, but before we say Nix missed lets see Russell play well for more than a half of a season. I think the read option is going to go away soon as QBs are going to start getting hurt. Bradham and Brooks we have no idea yet.

2013 yielded EJ, Woods, and Alonso so 3 starters.

So in total Nix got us 9 starters that we all agree are starters and a couple of key reservers who are starting due to injury.

Also the only reason the Pats are good is because of Brady in todays NFL a person like me who has never coached football could probably coach the Pats to the playoffs. Brady is one of the top 3 QBs ever and that is why they win, when he retires Bill will retire as well because he will know they will suck much like Levy when Kelly retired.

Moats and Aaron Williams are playing well but Russell Wilson is wait and see? The guy won a road playoff game already.

[PTI]

With free agency and salary cap, at a minimum, to stay the same and get better, you need a minimum of 5 key contributors to the lineup every single season, and if you have no QB, then you have nothing.

[X-Era]

To be fair, we've been picking 15-20 picks higher than NE for the last 13 years, including the 3 drafts Nix did. So, that isn't a good standard because the talent pool is richer for our picks than theirs.
The the first maybe second round. You were arguing middle or late rounds.

And they choose to move down every year, stock pile picks, only to cut most of the guys they do draft.

It's a stupid strategy that's slowly making their team worse and worse.

[Beebe's Kid]

The the first maybe second round. You were arguing middle or late rounds.

And they choose to move down every year, stock pile picks, only to cut most of the guys they do draft.

It's a stupid strategy that's slowly making their team worse and worse.

Yeah...it would suck to root for a team like New England. It would be frustrating having to worry about a meaningful game past October.

I really don't care about their draft strategy, but to act like it is just an abysmal failure while typing on a Buffalo Bills forum is kind of ironic.

[better days]

Yeah...it would suck to root for a team like New England. It would be frustrating having to worry about a meaningful game past October.

I really don't care about their draft strategy, but to act like it is just an abysmal failure while typing on a Buffalo Bills forum is kind of ironic.

Brady & Belicheat. Take those two away, & that is a mediocre team.

[BillsFever21]

Brady & Belicheat. Take those two away, & that is a mediocre team.

Way to go out on a limb there :rofl:

Take away Sean Payton and Drew Brees and the Saints are a mediocre team. Take away Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers and they're just a mediocre team. Take away Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning during their SB victories and you have a mediocre team. You can say that about any recent Super Bowl winner or almost any dynasty ever in the NFL. At least since the salary cap era started.

[X-Era]

Yeah...it would suck to root for a team like New England. It would be frustrating having to worry about a meaningful game past October.

I really don't care about their draft strategy, but to act like it is just an abysmal failure while typing on a Buffalo Bills forum is kind of ironic.Not when I was responding to a comparison between us around the draft.

They stink at drafting. They are successful because of Belichump and Marcia. Nix was in charge of the drafts in question and we did a better job over that time span.

[X-Era]

Way to go out on a limb there :rofl:

Take away Sean Payton and Drew Brees and the Saints are a mediocre team. Take away Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers and they're just a mediocre team. Take away Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning during their SB victories and you have a mediocre team. You can say that about any recent Super Bowl winner or almost any dynasty ever in the NFL. At least since the salary cap era started.I dont think so. The Ravens have been very good at drafting for years. And went to a SB with Dilfer. Harbaugh is a good HC but he isn't a HOF'er and Flacco has been above average but not stellar.

[better days]

That was a good breakdown, however, my only qualm is that I wouldn't rate a GM on how many "starters" he drafts. If the team is crappy and they keep changing the scheme every year, of course the draft is going to yield a lot of starters.

Look at just about any roster in the league. Anyone that has gone through a re-build is going to have a roster made up predominantly of players drafted in the last 4 years.

It's what that roster actually does that you can judge them on.

MOST of the starters on Buffalo could START on ANY team in the NFL.

[better days]

I dont think so. The Ravens have been very good at drafting for years. And went to a SB with Dilfer. Harbaugh is a good HC but he isn't a HOF'er and Flacco has been above average but not stellar.

The Ravens are one of the best if not the very best at drafting IMO.

[OpIv37]

MOST of the starters on Buffalo could START on ANY team in the NFL.

This is BS, especially on D. The only LB we have that's an NFL quality starter appears to be Kiko, and it's only been two games. McKelvin wouldn't start on a lot of NFL rosters and neither would Searcy. Jury's still out on Aaron Williams at S but he certainly wouldn't start at CB on most rosters.

On O, the only WR we have that would definitely start is Johnson- jury's still out on the rest. Chandler and Brown definitely wouldn't start for most teams. And there are at least 20 teams where EJ wouldn't start right now by virtue of being a rookie- time will tell if he'll be better than them or not in the long run.

[DesertFox24]

Moats and Aaron Williams are playing well but Russell Wilson is wait and see? The guy won a road playoff game already.


I said wait and see due to the read option which much like the wild cat took def coordinators time to figure out. I watchted the niners seahawks game and any time he tried the read option he got drilled and rightfully so.

That being said if you look at his passing stats they are not as good as last year.

Also a QB trumps any other position so clearly if he is good then it is an epic fail on our front office.

Williams hopefully wll turn out to be a good safety, and the fact that Moats as a 6th round pick is more than a special teams guy is actually pretty good.

[trapezeus]

OP, that's harsh. i think the WR corp is pretty solid. if the bills cut any of those guys, a team would certainly pick him up with the expectation that they could be long term contributors. so you might not see them in the next week, but once they are practiced, any team would want woods in their top rotation.

[jdaltroy5]

MOST of the starters on Buffalo could START on ANY team in the NFL.
I mean this with all due respect, but that is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on this message board.

[justasportsfan]

McKelvin wouldn't start on a lot of NFL rosters and neither would Searcy.

McKelvin would start at no.2 for other teams. If he continues to play the way he's playing lately, he could be a no.1 for other teams.

[OpIv37]

McKelvin would start at no.2 for other teams. If he continues to play the way he's playing lately, he could be a no.1 for other teams.

Disagree. McKelvin had two good games at corner after 3 years of suckage. If he continues to play at this level he'll be a number 2 for most teams and maybe a number one for a handful. If he reverts back to previous form, he's a nickel back for most teams.

[better days]

Way to go out on a limb there :rofl:

Take away Sean Payton and Drew Brees and the Saints are a mediocre team. Take away Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers and they're just a mediocre team. Take away Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning during their SB victories and you have a mediocre team. You can say that about any recent Super Bowl winner or almost any dynasty ever in the NFL. At least since the salary cap era started.

The point was & is the Pats* have had success ONLY because of those two, not because of their drafting which has been MEDIOCRE at best.

[OpIv37]

OP, that's harsh. i think the WR corp is pretty solid. if the bills cut any of those guys, a team would certainly pick him up with the expectation that they could be long term contributors. so you might not see them in the next week, but once they are practiced, any team would want woods in their top rotation.

That's a possibility but its not proven yet. Woods had one good game. Believe me- while I'm sure there are teams that would like him on their roster, no team in the NFL is envious of Buffalo's WR situation of having to throw a bunch of rookies and an unproven sophomore out there with Stevie.

[better days]

Disagree. McKelvin had two good games at corner after 3 years of suckage. If he continues to play at this level he'll be a number 2 for most teams and maybe a number one for a handful. If he reverts back to previous form, he's a nickel back for most teams.

Well, you can disagree, but you are WRONG Op.

McKelvin was SOLID last year, he did not suck & this year he has so far played GREAT.

[OpIv37]

Well, you can disagree, but you are WRONG Op.

McKelvin was SOLID last year, he did not suck & this year he has so far played GREAT.
And there you go shooting your credibility in the foot by proving you have no ability to be objective. McKelvin sucked last year but you can't see it.

[GreedoII]

Blind homerism at it;s best....




Well, you can disagree, but you are WRONG Op.

McKelvin was SOLID last year, he did not suck & this year he has so far played GREAT.

[OpIv37]

Blind homerism at it;s best....

He thinks everyone on the team is good, yet somehow we only won 6 games last year....

[justasportsfan]

Disagree. McKelvin had two good games at corner after 3 years of suckage. If he continues to play at this level he'll be a number 2 for most teams and maybe a number one for a handful. If he reverts back to previous form, he's a nickel back for most teams.

Huh? You disagree and then you agreed ?

[OpIv37]

Huh? You disagree and then you agreed ?

Yeah I guess that wasn't very clear- what I was trying to say is that I disagree based on his whole body of work.

I agree with you if he keeps playing the way he did the last two games, but that's a big IF. People here are too willing to forget his previous 3 years because of 2 games.

[justasportsfan]

Yeah I guess that wasn't very clear- what I was trying to say is that I disagree based on his whole body of work.

I agree with you if he keeps playing the way he did the last two games, but that's a big IF. People here are too willing to forget his previous 3 years because of 2 games.

it didn't help that he played for 2 bad coaches. Jauron and Edwards/Wanny.

[jdaltroy5]

it didn't help that he played for 2 bad coaches. Jauron and Edwards/Wanny.
That's irrelevant in this discussion though. When saying that he would start for most teams, you can only judge him based on the body of work that you actually have.

In the last 5 years, McKelvin has only ever played CB1 for us when there's been an injury. Most of the time, when that happened, he was picked on.

He has mostly floated around CB2 and nickel corner in his time here. I don't know why anyone thinks he could be a starter an ANY team in the NFL.

[justasportsfan]

That's irrelevant in this discussion though. When saying that he would start for most teams, you can only judge him based on the body of work that you actually have.

In the last 5 years, McKelvin has only ever played CB1 for us when there's been an injury. Most of the time, when that happened, he was picked on.

He has mostly floated around CB2 and nickel corner in his time here. I don't know why anyone thinks he could be a starter an ANY team in the NFL.

While playing under Wanny last year, do you think that Mario would be a no.1 DE for another team ? Some people would even say that Lynch was not a no.1 when he played for the bills. Coaches put you in positions to fail or succeed which affect your entire body of work.

[jdaltroy5]

based on last year, do you think that Mario would be a no.1 DE for another team ? Some people would even say that Lynch was not a no.1 when he played for the bills. Coaches put you in positions to fail or succeed which affect your entire body of work.
I don't doubt that at all and that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying based on his body of work, McKelvin probably wouldn't start for most teams.

Based on their body of work, most Bills wouldn't start on a good team. That could be another discussion by the end of the season, but at this point, it holds true IMO.

To say that MOST Bills would start on ANY team in the NFL is just crazy. We have a handful of guys that could start on MOST teams.

[justasportsfan]

I don't doubt that at all and that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying based on his body of work, McKelvin probably wouldn't start for most teams.

Based on their body of work, most Bills wouldn't start on a good team. That could be another discussion by the end of the season, but at this point, it holds true IMO.

To say that MOST Bills would start on ANY team in the NFL is just crazy. We have a handful of guys that could start on MOST teams.

To a certain point I would agree but you also have to look at the circumstances players were in .
If anyone said that Alex Smith is a starting qb based on his body of work in his 1st 5 years with the 9'ers, we'd all disagree. It took a coach to turn his career around.

I wasn't talking about MOST bills. I particularly pointed out McKElvin and if you take into account his performance half of last year up to now, he'd still be a no.2 on other teams which is still a starter.

[better days]

And there you go shooting your credibility in the foot by proving you have no ability to be objective. McKelvin sucked last year but you can't see it.

You are the one who lost credibility. McKelvin was solid last year, & others have agreed with me about that in this thread.

[better days]

That's irrelevant in this discussion though. When saying that he would start for most teams, you can only judge him based on the body of work that you actually have.

In the last 5 years, McKelvin has only ever played CB1 for us when there's been an injury. Most of the time, when that happened, he was picked on.

He has mostly floated around CB2 and nickel corner in his time here. I don't know why anyone thinks he could be a starter an ANY team in the NFL.

I'm not sayiing McKelvin would be the #1 CB. The way he has played this year, I think he would be #1 on a number of teams & he would be a starting QB on all but a very few teams.

[Mr. Pink]

it didn't help that he played for 2 bad coaches. Jauron and Edwards/Wanny.

Joe Haden looked pretty good with Jauron as his DC.

just sayin'

[justasportsfan]

Joe Haden looked pretty good with Jauron as his DC.

just sayin'

thats because someone else was the head coach and told Dick to stop playing scared. just saying.

[jdaltroy5]

I'm not sayiing McKelvin would be the #1 CB. The way he has played this year, I think he would be #1 on a number of teams & he would be a starting QB on all but a very few teams.
Well I definitely don't think he would be the starting QB on any team.

Depends on how you define a starter. Usually a slot CB isn't part of a base package (although I think that's changing), so to say he would be a starter means that he would be a top two corner on any team. He wasn't even a top two corner on our team last year. He was going to have to compete with a 4th round rookie to play in the slot last year until Brooks got injured.

McKelvin has played well this year, I'm not taking that away from him. But we also have 5 years worth of game tape to judge him on too.

[trapezeus]

You are the one who lost credibility. McKelvin was solid last year, & others have agreed with me about that in this thread.

so his 20 tackles, 3 pass defends and 1 INT was "SOLID"?

i think more people would say that he was useless as the dime back last year. until some team gets into the redzone, let's see how he deals with the old fade in the back corner that he routinley gives up.

he's had two good years returning kicks. aside from that, he's only now starting to shine.

which is fine by me, but let's not pretend that he did anything particularly helpful other than be a warm body on the defense.

[OpIv37]

You are the one who lost credibility. McKelvin was solid last year, & others have agreed with me about that in this thread.

Don't care who agrees with you. Being right is not based on majority opinion. Trap posted the stat line and I watched him play. I saw him suck and the numbers back it up.

The thing is that you seem to have a selective memory. If McKelvin makes 3 good plays then screws up 40 times in a season, you're only going to remember the good plays. You're not going to remember a missed tackle or a would-be INT that bounced off his hand or Tom Brady whizzing TD passes by his head after he got beat deep.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

You are the one who lost credibility. McKelvin was solid last year, & others have agreed with me about that in this thread.

He was excellent as a return man, but this has somehow metastasized in your mind to him playing well in coverage. He absolutely did not.

[jdaltroy5]

To a certain point I would agree but you also have to look at the circumstances players were in .
If anyone said that Alex Smith is a starting qb based on his body of work in his 1st 5 years with the 9'ers, we'd all disagree. It took a coach to turn his career around.

I wasn't talking about MOST bills. I particularly pointed out McKElvin and if you take into account his performance half of last year up to now, he'd still be a no.2 on other teams which is still a starter.
And Alex Smith would still only be a starter on a handful teams.

In regards to McKelvin, it's hard to say. I don't know every team's CB situation. I know that he was fighting to start at the nickel spot last year. Hell, Crezdon Butler was pushing him for the CB2 spot this year. I could see him starting on SOME teams, but the original premise was that MOST Bills would start on ANY team.

I think Byrd and M. Williams (as a DE2) would be able to start on ANY team. Maybe Gilmore as a CB2 and Johnson as a WR2 as well.

[better days]

Well I definitely don't think he would be the starting QB on any team.

Depends on how you define a starter. Usually a slot CB isn't part of a base package (although I think that's changing), so to say he would be a starter means that he would be a top two corner on any team. He wasn't even a top two corner on our team last year. He was going to have to compete with a 4th round rookie to play in the slot last year until Brooks got injured.

McKelvin has played well this year, I'm not taking that away from him. But we also have 5 years worth of game tape to judge him on too.

Yeah, I meant starting CB. When McKelvin got his shot last year, he was solid. So much so that the Bills decided to resign him & make him the #2 CB this year. He has not disappointed.

The past is the past. Players CAN IMPROVE, which McKelvin has done.

[jdaltroy5]

Yeah, I meant starting CB. When McKelvin got his shot last year, he was solid. So much so that the Bills decided to resign him & make him the #2 CB this year. He has not disappointed.I think they re-signed him for a variety of reasons. They only had one starting calibre CB on the roster. They HAD to re-sign him so they weren't hamstrung going into the draft. I think they also value his return skills which bumped up his contract a bit.


The past is the past. Players CAN IMPROVE, which McKelvin has done.Absolutely, they can improve. And when they show that they have improved for a long period of time, I will give them credit for that.

Keep in mind, the first two weeks he was playing against very raw players and in week 2, Cam Newton was airmailing it to the first row on most throws.

Again, not taking away from what McKelvin has done. He has played well in these situations, but I want to see him do it over an extended period of time before I proclaim him to be a good player.

[trapezeus]

the bills signing him is hardly a stake on the level of his skill. See: Kelsay, Chris.

he's a good kick return guy. he's played two games thus far. the refs have been very lenient on him. He has been mugging guys left and right with clumps of jersey and getting away with it. if it doesn't improve, there is going to be a game or two where he is a penalty machine.

[HAMMER]

the bills signing him is hardly a stake on the level of his skill. See: Kelsay, Chris.

he's a good kick return guy. he's played two games thus far. the refs have been very lenient on him. He has been mugging guys left and right with clumps of jersey and getting away with it. if it doesn't improve, there is going to be a game or two where he is a penalty machine.

So both sets of officials in both games have been wrong and you are right? OK Champ. McKelvin is lighting it up, I have been extremely impressed with his play. Some people just can't be happy and root for their team w/o overANALyzing everything.

[pmoon6]

the bills signing him is hardly a stake on the level of his skill. See: Kelsay, Chris.

he's a good kick return guy. he's played two games thus far. the refs have been very lenient on him. He has been mugging guys left and right with clumps of jersey and getting away with it. if it doesn't improve, there is going to be a game or two where he is a penalty machine.Typical of Bills' Fans nowadays. Even when the play well, they still aren't good....or they suck.

Too funny.

[jdaltroy5]

Typical of Bills' Fans nowadays. Even when the play well, they still aren't good....or they suck.

Too funny.
No, it's typical of a fanboy.

"OMG he played well in 2 games!!!!! All-Pro!!!! Anyone that doesn't think so is a hater!!!!"

He's been mediocre at best for 5 years. There's no reason that he can't turn it around, but I want to see him play well over an extended period of time against good competition before I proclaim that he's a good player.

[better days]

I think they re-signed him for a variety of reasons. They only had one starting calibre CB on the roster. They HAD to re-sign him so they weren't hamstrung going into the draft. I think they also value his return skills which bumped up his contract a bit.

Absolutely, they can improve. And when they show that they have improved for a long period of time, I will give them credit for that.

Keep in mind, the first two weeks he was playing against very raw players and in week 2, Cam Newton was airmailing it to the first row on most throws.

Again, not taking away from what McKelvin has done. He has played well in these situations, but I want to see him do it over an extended period of time before I proclaim him to be a good player.

When McKelvin was resigned BOTH the Bills & he said he was signed to be the #2 CB. The Bills did not have to resign him. They could have drafted a CB to be the #2 CB or signed a different FA to be the #2 CB.

The Bills resigned him because they were HAPPY with his play last year PERIOD.

[justasportsfan]

And Alex Smith would still only be a starter on a handful teams.

In regards to McKelvin, it's hard to say. I don't know every team's CB situation. I know that he was fighting to start at the nickel spot last year. Hell, Crezdon Butler was pushing him for the CB2 spot this year. I could see him starting on SOME teams, but the original premise was that MOST Bills would start on ANY team.

I think Byrd and M. Williams (as a DE2) would be able to start on ANY team. Maybe Gilmore as a CB2 and Johnson as a WR2 as well.
I see the problem. When I replied to OP I said other teams not ANY team.

[jdaltroy5]

When McKelvin was resigned BOTH the Bills & he said he was signed to be the #2 CB. The Bills did not have to resign him. They could have drafted a CB to be the #2 CB or signed a different FA to be the #2 CB.

The Bills resigned him because they were HAPPY with his play last year PERIOD.I like the fact that they re-signed him. If they didn't re-sign him, they would've had a huge glaring hole at CB.

Still doesn't change the fact that he most likely wouldn't be a starter on most teams. He has only been a starter for one full year in Buffalo (2010) and he had to fight it out with a career journeyman to be a starter this year.

He has played well this year, but you can't just dismiss his 5 years of mediocrity.

[jdaltroy5]

I see the problem. When I replied to OP I said other teams not ANY team.
Sure, I could see him being a starter for other teams.

Being a starter for MOST teams is kind of iffy and being a starter for ANY team is just ridiculous.

[HAMMER]

I like the fact that they re-signed him. If they didn't re-sign him, they would've had a huge glaring hole at CB.

Still doesn't change the fact that he most likely wouldn't be a starter on most teams. He has only been a starter for one full year in Buffalo (2010) and he had to fight it out with a career journeyman to be a starter this year.

He has played well this year, but you can't just dismiss his 5 years of mediocrity.

Move on man, players improve, sometimes it has a lot to do with coaching, sometimes maturation, either way he has been excellent this year. Enjoy it!

[trapezeus]

So both sets of officials in both games have been wrong and you are right? OK Champ. McKelvin is lighting it up, I have been extremely impressed with his play. Some people just can't be happy and root for their team w/o overANALyzing everything.

So when the play is shown on replay and the announces even say, "he got away with one" and it happens a couple times, i'm being arrogant?

why are the fanboys so insistent that hte bills are superbowl ready after 1 win. it was fun, it was exciting. they all have to get better. while the Betteday fans all thinks everything is fine and dandy, i'm assuming the coaches and players don't feel that way.

there are a lot of things that need to get better. and included in that is mckelvin. He certainly has stepped it up from previous years, but we are two games in and played two mediocre offenses.

we've also been burned by fast starts in the past. lets just hope slow and steady wins the race.

[OpIv37]

When McKelvin was resigned BOTH the Bills & he said he was signed to be the #2 CB. The Bills did not have to resign him. They could have drafted a CB to be the #2 CB or signed a different FA to be the #2 CB.

The Bills resigned him because they were HAPPY with his play last year PERIOD.


I like the fact that they re-signed him. If they didn't re-sign him, they would've had a huge glaring hole at CB.



This.

The Bills really had no choice. They had to use their draft picks to fix the glaring holes at QB, LB and WR- you can only fill so many holes in one draft.

[OpIv37]

Typical of Bills' Fans nowadays. Even when the play well, they still aren't good....or they suck.

Too funny.

2 games.

He played well for 2 games.

He sucked for what? 3 or 4 years before that? Even when he was doing well returning kicks, he had a tendency to make mistakes- fumbling (remember the loss to NE?), fielding punts that he should let bounce through the endzone, trying to catch punts on the fly, etc.

Now suddenly we're supposed to sing the guy's praises for two good games? We've all admitted that he's played well so far this year. That doesn't make him a good player. Only Bills fans who have accepted mediocrity think a player who followed 4 years of suckage with two good games is good.

[BillsFever21]

And there you go shooting your credibility in the foot by proving you have no ability to be objective. McKelvin sucked last year but you can't see it.

Several games down the stretch where he wasn't the worse player on the field qualifies him as having a good season and a possible #1 starter on most teams in the league. Only in homerism land would you hear that comment. He would be lucky to be a #2 on at least half of the teams in the NFL and good luck finding anybody but a bottom feeder where he would be a #1 outside of injuries. There is a reason why he rarely even cracked our starting lineup the past couple of years with nothing but junk in the secondary.

If most of our starters could start on any other team in the NFL then we wouldn't be a 6 win team for the past few years. Sure you can find some crappy teams like the Jaguars or Browns or any of the other 30 teams that may be very weak at a certain position that many of our guys would be starters on but if you're talking about any playoff level teams then maybe a handful of our starters would be starting on their team. In some of these people's eyes even our backups could be starters on many teams and the only reason they're not currently starting is because the players are already stacked in front of them.

[BillsFever21]

So when the play is shown on replay and the announces even say, "he got away with one" and it happens a couple times, i'm being arrogant?

why are the fanboys so insistent that hte bills are superbowl ready after 1 win. it was fun, it was exciting. they all have to get better. while the Betteday fans all thinks everything is fine and dandy, i'm assuming the coaches and players don't feel that way.

there are a lot of things that need to get better. and included in that is mckelvin. He certainly has stepped it up from previous years, but we are two games in and played two mediocre offenses.

we've also been burned by fast starts in the past. lets just hope slow and steady wins the race.

It's like this every season after we win our first game. Last year when we were 2-1 that was proof in their eyes that this was a playoff team and that we had stars all over the field. When we were 5-2 the year before that we were contending for a championship that season and Fitzpatrick was a top 10 QB because he was leading the league in TD's the first month of the year.

I have hope going forward for this team but the homers will never change. Every starter is a pro bowl level talent and whenever we win our first game then that's proof that this is a great team. If that's the case then there are 24+ great teams in the NFL right now.

[jdaltroy5]

Move on man, players improve, sometimes it has a lot to do with coaching, sometimes maturation, either way he has been excellent this year. Enjoy it!

I am enjoying it. I hope he keeps it up.

[better days]

I think they re-signed him for a variety of reasons. They only had one starting calibre CB on the roster. They HAD to re-sign him so they weren't hamstrung going into the draft. I think they also value his return skills which bumped up his contract a bit.

Absolutely, they can improve. And when they show that they have improved for a long period of time, I will give them credit for that.

Keep in mind, the first two weeks he was playing against very raw players and in week 2, Cam Newton was airmailing it to the first row on most throws.

Again, not taking away from what McKelvin has done. He has played well in these situations, but I want to see him do it over an extended period of time before I proclaim him to be a good player.

Like I said before, the Bills DID NOT have to resign McKelvin. If he SUCKED as Op said he did, WHY WOULD THEY? They could have signed another FA CB or drafted one if McKelvin sucked.

I watched the game again today. Early 2nd Qtr, Steve Smith has the ball in his hands near the sideline, Mckelvin knocked it out. Multiple Pro Bowl & future first ballot HOF CB Rhonde Barber said " Iplayed against Steve Smith twice a year for a few years, I NEVER made THAT play. Later in the 2nd Qtr, Leodis knocked down another pass intended for Smith...............who we know is not a scrub.

Watch the game again.

[better days]

2 games.

He played well for 2 games.

He sucked for what? 3 or 4 years before that? Even when he was doing well returning kicks, he had a tendency to make mistakes- fumbling (remember the loss to NE?), fielding punts that he should let bounce through the endzone, trying to catch punts on the fly, etc.

Now suddenly we're supposed to sing the guy's praises for two good games? We've all admitted that he's played well so far this year. That doesn't make him a good player. Only Bills fans who have accepted mediocrity think a player who followed 4 years of suckage with two good games is good.

If McKelvin SUCKED last year, WHY WOULD the Bills resign him?

You don't know what you are talking about.

[BillsFever21]

If McKelvin SUCKED last year, WHY WOULD the Bills resign him?

You don't know what you are talking about.

They kept Chris Kelsay around for a decade with two different contract extensions. I guess that means he was a great player.

[jdaltroy5]

Like I said before, the Bills DID NOT have to resign McKelvin. If he SUCKED as Op said he did, WHY WOULD THEY? They could have signed another FA CB or drafted one if McKelvin sucked.Really? That's your point? Why would the Bills re-sign him if he wasn't good? Might want to re-think that one.



I watched the game again today. Early 2nd Qtr, Steve Smith has the ball in his hands near the sideline, Mckelvin knocked it out. Multiple Pro Bowl & future first ballot HOF CB Rhonde Barber said " Iplayed against Steve Smith twice a year for a few years, I NEVER made THAT play. Later in the 2nd Qtr, Leodis knocked down another pass intended for Smith...............who we know is not a scrub.

Watch the game again.I don't need to watch the game again. I've already said that he played well. If he can continue to make plays like that, then I will consider him a good player. The problem is that he'll make plays like that, and then he'll make boneheaded plays and get burned.

Just for perspective, CBS sports ranked him as the 98th top FA this offseason.

[OpIv37]

If McKelvin SUCKED last year, WHY WOULD the Bills resign him?

You don't know what you are talking about.

Lmao- yeah the Bills have never signed or re-signed a player who sucks before. That's why we win the Super Bowl every year.

His play on the field determines whether or not he sucks, not whether the Bills signed him. Now you're just making up bull****.

[pmoon6]

No, it's typical of a fanboy.

"OMG he played well in 2 games!!!!! All-Pro!!!! Anyone that doesn't think so is a hater!!!!"

He's been mediocre at best for 5 years. There's no reason that he can't turn it around, but I want to see him play well over an extended period of time against good competition before I proclaim that he's a good player.I didn't say that, but keep making things up in your head. Most of you guys can't even give credit where credit is due.

Why do you think I call you a bunch of pubescent girls getting your first period.

[better days]

They kept Chris Kelsay around for a decade with two different contract extensions. I guess that means he was a great player.

Kelsey was not great, but even though people said he did, he did not suck either.

[better days]

Lmao- yeah the Bills have never signed or re-signed a player who sucks before. That's why we win the Super Bowl every year.

His play on the field determines whether or not he sucks, not whether the Bills signed him. Now you're just making up bull****.

I am making nothing up. Watch the Panthers game again & you will see the Bills had Leodis matched up on Steve Smith ALL game long with NO help.

Rhonde Barber even commented on that saying MOST teams double cover Steve Smith.

[OpIv37]

I am making nothing up. Watch the Panthers game again & you will see the Bills had Leodis matched up on Steve Smith ALL game long with NO help.

Rhonde Barber even commented on that saying MOST teams double cover Steve Smith.

Holy ****. Everyone agrees that he played well in that one particular game. The problem is that his body of work overall has not been good, and the Bills re-signing him doesn't provd otherwise.

Whenever you lose on a point, you just change the topic and try to make it about something else.

[better days]

Really? That's your point? Why would the Bills re-sign him if he wasn't good? Might want to re-think that one.


I don't need to watch the game again. I've already said that he played well. If he can continue to make plays like that, then I will consider him a good player. The problem is that he'll make plays like that, and then he'll make boneheaded plays and get burned.

Just for perspective, CBS sports ranked him as the 98th top FA this offseason.

CBS FA ranking = CBS draft ranking. Where did they have EJ ranked again?

No doubt he might get burned a some plays over the season. SO WHAT?

99% of CB's get burned on occasion. In a few weeks when Gilmore comes back, WATCH OUT.

This Bills Defense will be SCARY GOOD.

From front to back, this defense right now looks BETTER than most people thought it would.

[better days]

Holy ****. Everyone agrees that he played well in that one particular game. The problem is that his body of work overall has not been good, and the Bills re-signing him doesn't provd otherwise.

Whenever you lose on a point, you just change the topic and try to make it about something else.

Leodis played WELL last year. That is as far back as it is NECESSARY to go. If he did not play well last year, the Bills would not have resigned him.

And this year so far, he is playing GREAT. I expect him to have a GOOD game against the Jets on Sunday.

[kishoph]

Leodis played WELL last year. That is as far back as it is NECESSARY to go. If he did not play well last year, the Bills would not have resigned him.

And this year so far, he is playing GREAT. I expect him to have a GOOD game against the Jets on Sunday.


I hope he has a good game on Sunday, else we'll hear how the Bills have the worst DB's in the league, to go along with the worst O-line, worst WR's and worst LB's.

[JoeMama]

I didn't say that, but keep making things up in your head. Most of you guys can't even give credit where credit is due.

Why do you think I call you a bunch of pubescent girls getting your first period.

Oh come on, you don't think 13 years of incompetence is worthy of criticism?

BTW I'm thrilled about the 1-1 start. Ain't nothing wrong with a last second victory.

[better days]

Oh come on, you don't think 13 years of incompetence is worthy of criticism?

BTW I'm thrilled about the 1-1 start. Ain't nothing wrong with a last second victory.

You can criticize the past 13 years of failure, but just realize this is a new time & new people are in charge who have nothing to do with the past.

[OpIv37]

Leodis played WELL last year. That is as far back as it is NECESSARY to go. If he did not play well last year, the Bills would not have resigned him.

And this year so far, he is playing GREAT. I expect him to have a GOOD game against the Jets on Sunday.

No, he didn't play well last year. I saw it with my own eyes and trap posted the stats to back it up.

You can say he played well last year and put it in caps as many times as you want and it still won't be true.

[better days]

No, he didn't play well last year. I saw it with my own eyes and trap posted the stats to back it up.

You can say he played well last year and put it in caps as many times as you want and it still won't be true.

I saw it with my two eyes. he played WELL last year. Just because you say he didn't does not mean he didn't.

He played well enough last year that the Bills wanted to resign him.....................FACT.

In any event, this is a new year, new system, the Bills resigned him & Leodis is playing GREAT.

[pmoon6]

Leodis McKelvin is a perfect example of a player that took a few years to come in to his own. He was able to stick around because of his special teams play. Even if he hadn't played well, so far, at corner, his value on ST is still there. That's why it makes me laugh when people outside the practices and games start calling for a player's head after two years.

[JoeMama]

Leodis McKelvin is a perfect example of a player that took a few years to come in to his own. He was able to stick around because of his special teams play. Even if he hadn't played well, so far, at corner, his value on ST is still there. That's why it makes me laugh when people outside the practices and games start calling for a player's head after two years.

My dad hates Leodis because of his fumble vs NE in 2009.

As great as he's played this year, my pops won't relent.

I'm like, come on dad, ease up on the guy. It's not like we had a chance in 2009 anyway.

Old grievances are hard to give up.

[pmoon6]

My dad hates Leodis because of his fumble vs NE in 2009.

As great as he's played this year, my pops won't relent.

I'm like, come on dad, ease up on the guy. It's not like we had a chance in 2009 anyway.

Old grievances are hard to give up.Funny, my wife and I rewatched the game yesterday. (I record them all). She commented on how well we were covering the receivers. I mentioned McKelvin and the first thing she said "Isn't that the guy that fumbles and got his house vandalized?" I guess some mistakes never go away.

[jdaltroy5]

I didn't say that, but keep making things up in your head. Most of you guys can't even give credit where credit is due.

Why do you think I call you a bunch of pubescent girls getting your first period.
I never said that you did say that.

But it's clear in this very thread that if a guy has two good games you can automatically dismiss the last 5 years. If you don't, then you're just a hater. I think everyone has said that he has played well so far this season.

Some people do act like a bunch of pubescent girls. But every time a player plays well, some other people act like a pubescent boy who just scored his first dry hansky in the parking lot of the bowling alley.

I want to see it over a period of time (the player playing well, not the kid getting a hansky) before I call him a good player.

[OpIv37]

I saw it with my two eyes. he played WELL last year. Just because you say he didn't does not mean he didn't.

He played well enough last year that the Bills wanted to resign him.....................FACT.

In any event, this is a new year, new system, the Bills resigned him & Leodis is playing GREAT.

Your ****ing arguing in circles again. We already showed that the Bills signed him out of necessity.

[JoeMama]

Funny, my wife and I rewatched the game yesterday. (I record them all). She commented on how well we were covering the receivers. I mentioned McKelvin and the first thing she said "Isn't that the guy that fumbles and got his house vandalized?" I guess some mistakes never go away.

Uh oh...

My old man and your wife would get along pretty well.

[pmoon6]

I never said that you did say that.

But it's clear in this very thread that if a guy has two good games you can automatically dismiss the last 5 years. If you don't, then you're just a hater. I think everyone has said that he has played well so far this season.

Some people do act like a bunch of pubescent girls. But every time a player plays well, some other people act like a pubescent boy who just scored his first dry hansky in the parking lot of the bowling alley.

I want to see it over a period of time (the player playing well, not the kid getting a hansky) before I call him a good player.Look, he has played well so isn't it fair to assume that it will continue? He was a good player just by virtue of his contributions on Special Teams. That should be enough. I remember this guy that made a name for himself only in that facet of the game. Can't think of his name....oh, but he has been in the running for election to the HOF....can't remember....maybe I'll look it up.

[jdaltroy5]

Look, he has played well so isn't it fair to assume that it will continue? He was a good player just by virtue of his contributions on Special Teams. That should be enough. I remember this guy that made a name for himself only in that facet of the game. Can't think of his name....oh, but he has been in the running for election to the HOF....can't remember....maybe I'll look it up.
Again, I've never knocked his special teams ability. I'm only talking about his CB play. I was GLAD they re-signed him.

I generally don't knock players that often unless they really deserve it. And that's usually in a fit of rage over a boneheaded play.

I've defended tons of players like Byrd, Williams, Kelsay, Schobel, Nelson, Poz, Edwards, Whitner, etc...

My approach is that I want to see something with my own two eyes over a sustained period of time before I make a decision.

[JoeMama]

Your ****ing arguing in circles again. We already showed that the Bills signed him out of necessity.

Don't expect much else from better days.

He'll tell you how bad Brady sucks on one hand and then tell you how great unproven Bills players are on the other.

Brady is a first class QB and easily the best in a generation.

- - - Updated - - -


Again, I've never knocked his special teams ability. I'm only talking about his CB play. I was GLAD they re-signed him.

I generally don't knock players that often unless they really deserve it. And that's usually in a fit of rage over a boneheaded play.

I've defended tons of players like Byrd, Williams, Kelsay, Schobel, Nelson, Poz, Edwards, Whitner, etc...

My approach is that I want to see something with my own two eyes over a sustained period of time before I make a decision.

What's cool about Leodis is that his play is finally matching his pricetag.

He's been a monster so far. And I have no idea where it came from. He's been very inconsistent over the years.

[better days]

Don't expect much else from better days.

He'll tell you how bad Brady sucks on one hand and then tell you how great unproven Bills players are on the other.

Brady is a first class QB and easily the best in a generation.

- - - Updated - - -



What's cool about Leodis is that his play is finally matching his pricetag.

He's been a monster so far. And I have no idea where it came from. He's been very inconsistent over the years.

If you think Brady is better than Peyton Manning you are CRAZY. He could not even beat his brother.

[JoeMama]

If you think Brady is better than Peyton Manning you are CRAZY. He could not even beat his brother.

They're both top flight QBs.

But Brady has three superbowls to Manning's one.

Brady is the greatest quarterback of my lifetime, I'm sure about that.

[Mr. Pink]

They're both top flight QBs.

But Brady has three superbowls to Manning's one.

Brady is the greatest quarterback of my lifetime, I'm sure about that.

I still put Elway as the greatest QB of my lifetime, but Brady is a close second.

[JoeMama]

I still put Elway as the greatest QB of my lifetime, but Brady is a close second.

The way Elway closed his career is something for the storybooks.

Winning two superbowls after everyone said he was a choke artist for 10+ years was awesome.

I love Elway.

[jimmifli]

What's cool about Leodis is that his play is finally matching his pricetag.

He's been a monster so far. And I have no idea where it came from. He's been very inconsistent over the years.

For a while I felt like I was the only one that thought he was any good. I think he got a lot of undeserved hate for his play at CB because of his play on special teams against NE. Also because he was rarely beat, he was in position to make a play but didn't. That stands out a lot more than a WR getting a step on him and making a catch.

What surprises me most about his play this year is that he's playing so well in man coverage. The last time he looked like he could be a star he was playing zone, and able to watch the QB. He still does that well but his man skills have really improved. If he keeps up this level of play, he'll be the number 1 after Gilmour gets back.

[better days]

They're both top flight QBs.

But Brady has three superbowls to Manning's one.

Brady is the greatest quarterback of my lifetime, I'm sure about that.

Brady has won the same amount of Super Bowls as the Bills have without CHEATING.............................ZERO.

Manning is the MUCH BETTER QB.

[TedMock]

All the Leodis talk has me looking back at him over the last couple of years and I have to wonder if Donnie Henderson is the true underrated addition to the team.

McKelvin gave up some bad passes over the years, but not for the same reasons others do. He's rarely out of place, he's crafty in his clutching, his coverage skills have been excellent. He's never burned by anybody and his atleticism is great. His ball tracking skills had been awful though. Perfect coverage more often than not, but also consistently unable to locate the ball. It was a weird phenomenon with him.

He appeared better in zone because he was facing the ball, but his man coverage skills were actually very good. He just couldn't find the ball in air.

For some reason he has been making great plays using actual ball tracking skills in the first two weeks of this season. This may very well come to an abrupt end, but for the time being I have to assume that coaching has clicked for some reason, so far, this year. It seems like Donnie Henderson has been able teach where others failed for whatever reason. Hopefully it continues.

[feldspar]

McKelvin gave up some bad passes over the years, but not for the same reasons others do. He's rarely out of place, he's crafty in his clutching, his coverage skills have been excellent. He's never burned by anybody and his atleticism is great. His ball tracking skills had been awful though. Perfect coverage more often than not, but also consistently unable to locate the ball. It was a weird phenomenon with him.

He appeared better in zone because he was facing the ball, but his man coverage skills were actually very good. He just couldn't find the ball in air.



This...yes.

I was going to post something to this exact effect, but I didn't really feel like putting forth the effort.

[X-Era]

All the Leodis talk has me looking back at him over the last couple of years and I have to wonder if Donnie Henderson is the true underrated addition to the team.

McKelvin gave up some bad passes over the years, but not for the same reasons others do. He's rarely out of place, he's crafty in his clutching, his coverage skills have been excellent. He's never burned by anybody and his atleticism is great. His ball tracking skills had been awful though. Perfect coverage more often than not, but also consistently unable to locate the ball. It was a weird phenomenon with him.

He appeared better in zone because he was facing the ball, but his man coverage skills were actually very good. He just couldn't find the ball in air.

For some reason he has been making great plays using actual ball tracking skills in the first two weeks of this season. This may very well come to an abrupt end, but for the time being I have to assume that coaching has clicked for some reason, so far, this year. It seems like Donnie Henderson has been able teach where others failed for whatever reason. Hopefully it continues.So far he's looked like a very good #2 CB that we got for 4 years, 17 mill. That's a good deal for a very good #2 CB. He has a cap hit of 3.05 mill this year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/leodis-mckelvin/

[better days]

So far he's looked like a very good #2 CB that we got for 4 years, 17 mill. That's a good deal for a very good #2 CB. He has a cap hit of 3.05 mill this year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/leodis-mckelvin/

And when is the last time the Bills have had a #2 CB that has played as well as Leodis has the past two games?

Marrone said it...................players CAN IMPROVE.

[X-Era]

And when is the last time the Bills have had a #2 CB that has played as well as Leodis has the past two games?

Marrone said it...................players CAN IMPROVE.Idk, Florence, Greer, Winfield/Clements (take your pick on who was #2)... NOT Watson.

[X-Era]

2011 re-do...

We took Dareus at 3... not Newton, not Von Miller, not Aldon Smith...

Newton has looked pedestrian so far, Von Miller and Aldon Smith both have off the field problems. Patrick Peterson has been good, AJ Green has been great but we had Stevie.

Did Nix screw up with the Dareus pick somehow?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

2011 re-do...

We took Dareus at 3... not Newton, not Von Miller, not Aldon Smith...

Newton has looked pedestrian so far, Von Miller and Aldon Smith both have off the field problems. Patrick Peterson has been good, AJ Green has been great but we had Stevie.

Did Nix screw up with the Dareus pick somehow?

We never had a chance at Miller or Newton so I don't hold those against Nix. But the rest of that first round was staggering. AJ Green, JJ Watt, and Aldon Smith are all top 5 at their positions. Peterson and Jones are not far away from that. I generally don't complain when the Bills take a lineman in the first, since we have had such a long run of ignoring it, but it does suck to watch all that talent that we passed on while Dareus develops.

It's the later rounds that really stunk though. Williams over Dalton and Kaepernick and Sheard, Sheppard over Justin Houston, etc

[swiper]

Except he gave us EJ, Woods, and Kiko from just this draft.

Not to mention Gilmore, Dareus, and Spiller.

Uh. Huh?

[swiper]

EJ detractors growing in number by the day.

Robert Woods supplanted by Hogan?

Kiko hurt.

Dareus with the drug bust.

It's Spiller up the middle for 1 and a half!

Did Gilmore just get burned again?

[Mahdi]

EJ detractors growing in number by the day.

Robert Woods supplanted by Hogan?

Kiko hurt.

Dareus with the drug bust.

It's Spiller up the middle for 1 and a half!

Did Gilmore just get burned again?

Really the only mistake I see there is EJ.

Woods is listed as the #2 WR ahead of Mike Williams and Hogan.

You can't predict Dareus getting in trouble and he's also a PB DT.

Kiko is injured but up there with Kuechly as the top LBer in the league.

Spiller was good last year but struggled with EJ being so ineffective.

Gilmore was injured last year but I see him getting back to TOP CB form as he was in his rookie season.

[pmoon6]

Interesting that some of the "realists" take practice games and draw conclusions on players. Woods looked good last year and had a few good catches in preseason. Gilmore got burned a couple times, but show me a corner that doesn't with the chicken**** NFL rules that have turned it into an Arena-like league. Damn, a football player got injured, whoda thunk it. I would call all the running plays going inside a function of the vanilla offense of preseason. Maybe the offense should open it up and give teams a chance to prepare for it. Belichick eats that up and designs his defense accordingly.

The only thing Swiper is right about is the seeming stagnation of E.J Manuel. He still is trying to guide a lot of his passes, is tentative and still is inaccurate. He hasn't improved so far. Maybe the "sink or swim" approach is not what Manuel needed, maybe time on the bench will help him....maybe not. That would be on the coaches for not letting a raw rookie develop. Maybe he doesn't have "it", but that's what you get when you take a QB based on "potential".

At any rate, Swiper is like most realists here. Overly critical, negative and lacking understanding of what true sports, players and the team concept are all about.

[swiper]

Swiper loves Robert Woods, Dareus, Alonso and even Gilmore. moonpie misses the point. Which is understandable for the old man. Robert Woods, in fact, probably is the most under-rated player on this team. He should be used as often as possible. What were the coaches doing by putting Hogan in front of him?

[pmoon6]

Swiper loves Robert Woods, Dareus, Alonso and even Gilmore. moonpie misses the point. Which is understandable for the old man. Robert Woods, in fact, probably is the most under-rated player on this team. He should be used as often as possible. What were the coaches doing by putting Hogan in front of him?Intentionally missing the point to give you **** is one of my hobbies.

Thanks for the morning chuckle.

[swiper]

You are good at it.