Bills have NFL's quickest offense

[MidnightVoice]

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/1384/bills-have-nfls-quickest-offense

Through two games, the Buffalo Bills actually have the NFL's fastest offense, at least by one metric.

Dividing time of possession by number of plays, the Bills get one play off every 21.8 seconds of possession, first in the NFL. Meanwhile, the Eagles rank third (23.3 seconds per play)..........

Bills -- 21.8 seconds per play
Broncos -- 23.2 seconds
Eagles -- 23.3 seconds
Ravens -- 24.4 seconds
Patriots -- 25.0 seconds
Packers -- 25.3 seconds

[Skooby]

You would think that with a little more experience than 2 games we could continually continue to improve on that, easily shaving several seconds off within a few months of games.

[THRILLHO]

Sure, its easy to keep that average down when you have the lead with five minutes to go and refuse to run the clock.

[OpIv37]

so far, all that has meant is a huge TOP advantage for our opponents. Ripping off tons of offensive plays means nothing if they don't result in points.

[Ed]

I think a better or more accurate way to measure this would be to take the average amount of time left on the play clock when the ball is snapped.

[mayotm]

so far, all that has meant is a huge TOP advantage for our opponents. Ripping off tons of offensive plays means nothing if they don't result in points.
Wow. Very impressive observation.

[OpIv37]

Wow. Very impressive observation.

not meant to be impressive. Just pointing out the reality that this stat is not a good thing.

[mayotm]

not meant to be impressive. Just pointing out the reality that this stat is not a good thing.
No, thank you. It took you pointing it out for us idiots to understand.

[OpIv37]

No, thank you. It took you pointing it out for us idiots to understand.

Thread title says "Bills have NFL's quickest offense." That doesn't sound like people understand it's a bad thing.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

translation: Nobody goes three and out as quick as the Buffalo Bills

[mayotm]

Thread title says "Bills have NFL's quickest offense." That doesn't sound like people understand it's a bad thing.Again, thank you. I don't want to speak for the rest of the board, but I certainly rely on you to explain the most basic things.

[mayotm]

translation: Nobody goes three and out as quick as the Buffalo BillsThe Bills have had 4 three and outs in 26 possessions. That is 6th best in the league.

[justasportsfan]

Again, thank you. I don't want to speak for the rest of the board, but I certainly rely on you to explain the most basic things.

op's not the quickest one to pick up what you were saying. He's lighting quick to find something negative to ***** about.

[Novacane]

Thread title says "Bills have NFL's quickest offense." That doesn't sound like people understand it's a bad thing.


That's your opinion. That's their offense like it or not. We are going to lose TOP every week unless we get 3 and outs on defense most of the time. Even if the offense is clicking better than it has the first two weeks. It's only a bad thing if they don't score enough. It's the amount of plays that matters not time of possession. If we are equal or close to our opponent in plays run who cares if they had the ball 10 more minutes. It was time spent standing in a huddle.

[JoeMama]

An interesting stat, but it sounds better than it really is.

Mostly because everyone's flipping their **** over how many plays Chip Kelly's offense rolls out per game.

As long as the Bills are scoring and winning, these stats aren't the kind of thing I'm too concerned about one way or another.

[OpIv37]

Again, thank you. I don't want to speak for the rest of the board, but I certainly rely on you to explain the most basic things.

Once again, if these things were as basic as you claim, people would not be commenting on them as if they weren't. This is nothing but starting an argument with me because I said something you didn't want to hear.

[OpIv37]

That's your opinion. That's their offense like it or not. We are going to lose TOP every week unless we get 3 and outs on defense most of the time. Even if the offense is clicking better than it has the first two weeks. It's only a bad thing if they don't score enough. It's the amount of plays that matters not time of possession. If we are equal or close to our opponent in plays run who cares if they had the ball 10 more minutes. It was time spent standing in a huddle.

The defense cares, and fans will care when the tired D starts giving up run yardage in 15 yard chunks in the 4th quarter,

[Meathead]

The Bills have had 4 three and outs in 26 possessions. That is 6th best in the league.

ty. source?

[Meathead]

i hear all this talk about chip kelly revolutionizing nfl offenses. i know nothing about him or the pheagles offense, exactly what about it makes it so revolutionary

[jimmifli]

Thread title says "Bills have NFL's quickest offense." That doesn't sound like people understand it's a bad thing.
It's not a bad thing.

[BuffaloRedleg]

not meant to be impressive. Just pointing out the reality that this stat is not a good thing.

It's not about good or bad because it is intentional. It is a style of play. It is not an indicator of poor performance. You may disagree with that style of play, but it is not an indicator of anything good or bad.

For example, the Broncos are 2nd. You have two completely different teams that aren't even in the same league skill wise. You are stretching to reach a conclusion that you wanted to reach that is in no way indicated by the information provided.

Your observation is invalid.

[OpIv37]

It's not about good or bad because it is intentional. It is a style of play. It is not an indicator of poor performance. You may disagree with that style of play, but it is not an indicator of anything good or bad.

For example, the Broncos are 2nd. You have two completely different teams that aren't even in the same league skill wise. You are stretching to reach a conclusion that you wanted to reach that is in no way indicated by the information provided.

Your observation is invalid.

I never said it was an indicator of poor performance. I said it wasn't a good thing, meaning that it has let to poor results: too few points, too little TOP, left the D on the field too long.

Being the "quickest offense" is not a goal in and of itself. There are no trophies or awards for it. The way we have implemented the "quickest" offense has not led to results. So, it is not a good thing.

[justasportsfan]

The defense cares, and fans will care when the tired D starts giving up run yardage in 15 yard chunks in the 4th quarter,

we fans care like when we got down the field fast to win the game vs. Carolina. I know you didn't like to hear the words 'the bills win' but the quick offense did it .

[OpIv37]

we fans care like when we got down the field fast to win the game vs. Carolina. I know you didn't like to hear the words 'the bills win' but the quick offense did it .

except that, if the offense wasn't so concerned with quickness in the first place, we may have never been in position where we needed to win at the very end.

[BillsFever21]

I guess the only teams that have ever came back with a 2 minute drive to win a game must have been a fast paced team that doesn't huddle.

[JoeMama]

i hear all this talk about chip kelly revolutionizing nfl offenses. i know nothing about him or the pheagles offense, exactly what about it makes it so revolutionary

Is this a joke about the awesome movie, Meet the Feebles?

[Dr. Lecter]

except that, if the offense wasn't so concerned with quickness in the first place, we may have never been in position where we needed to win at the very end.
Or they might have been in a worse situation.

[OpIv37]

Or they might have been in a worse situation.

maybe, but either way, justa's premise that we wouldn't have been able to come back at the end if it wasn't for playing the quick pace for two whole games is still absurd.

[Dr. Lecter]

I like watching you and justa go at it.

It is like watching Santorum and Kucinich debate. Two people that are so far to the extremes that most people just shake their heard

[IlluminatusUIUC]

You would think that with a little more experience than 2 games we could continually continue to improve on that, easily shaving several seconds off within a few months of games.

There is a practical limit here. It takes time for the players to get the playcall signaled, line up, set for the appropriate amount of time, and go.


I think a better or more accurate way to measure this would be to take the average amount of time left on the play clock when the ball is snapped.

The playclock doesn't always start the second the previous play ends. The clock operator can take a second or two to reset.

[better days]

so far, all that has meant is a huge TOP advantage for our opponents. Ripping off tons of offensive plays means nothing if they don't result in points.

Just as having a huge TOP advantage means NOTHING if that team doesn't score points in that extra time.

Points are the ONLY thing that matters.

And Marrone said they have done studies & the more plays you run, the better chance you have to score points.

[OpIv37]

Just as having a huge TOP advantage means NOTHING if that team doesn't score points in that extra time.

Points are the ONLY thing that matters.

And Marrone said they have done studies & the more plays you run, the better chance you have to score points.

Except that giving the other team more TOP means they get the chance to run more plays, which also increases THEIR chances of scoring.

Once again, your lack of objectivity clouds your thinking.

[better days]

Except that giving the other team more TOP means they get the chance to run more plays, which also increases THEIR chances of scoring.

Once again, your lack of objectivity clouds your thinking.

Well, if they run a FAST paced offense, then that will cut down on their TOP as well. If they waste time in a huddle, they are not scoring points from the huddle.

Just because a team has more TOP does not mean that they ran more plays or scored more points.

[kishoph]

The Bills have had 4 three and outs in 26 possessions. That is 6th best in the league.

Don't go bringing facts into the discussion.

[Dr. Lecter]

Except that giving the other team more TOP means they get the chance to run more plays, which also increases THEIR chances of scoring.

Once again, your lack of objectivity clouds your thinking.

More time of possession is not the same thing as running more plays.

[Forward_Lateral]

Time of possession is possibly the most over rated stat in football.

[coastal]

I can already think if one part of one game where we shouldn't have been focussing on being quick.

[justasportsfan]

except that, if the offense wasn't so concerned with quickness in the first place, we may have never been in position where we needed to win at the very end.

you don't know that. You're assuming. I'll take fact over assumption any day.

[justasportsfan]

Except that giving the other team more TOP means they get the chance to run more plays, which also increases THEIR chances of scoring.

Once again, your lack of objectivity clouds your thinking.

the panthers have a great front 7. They limited the seahawks. Maybe, jusy maybe the fast paced O didn't allow them to dominate us. See , I can make assumptions too.

[Dr. Lecter]

More time of possession is not the same thing as running more plays.

Last week the TOP was 33:41 to 26:19.

Number of plays was 76-73.

So, with over 7 more minutes of TOP Carolina ran 3 more plays.

[pmoon6]

Once again, if these things were as basic as you claim, people would not be commenting on them as if they weren't. This is nothing but starting an argument with me because I said something you didn't want to hear.You fail to point out the advantages of the up tempo. Keeping the defense confused with no time to adjust or substitute. Increasing the number of plays which you can score on. Maybe getting the defense to jump offsides. There has to be a reason why a lot of teams are using it.

Of course, you're job of keeping Bills' Fans grounded will never be at risk. It's great that you can separate yourself from the mundane "rah rah" types. I'm surprised the NFL Network hasn't offered you a job with your incisive analysis and objective opinion. Or maybe you can take a coordinators job.

BTW, the best Bills' teams in history used an up tempo offense. It was called the K-Gun. You were probably too young to remember.

[better days]

You fail to point out the advantages of the up tempo. Keeping the defense confused with no time to adjust or substitute. Increasing the number of plays which you can score on. Maybe getting the defense to jump offsides. There has to be a reason why a lot of teams are using it.

Of course, you're job of keeping Bills' Fans grounded will never be at risk. It's great that you can separate yourself from the mundane "rah rah" types. I'm surprised the NFL Network hasn't offered you a job with your incisive analysis and objective opinion. Or maybe you can take a coordinators job.

If Jerry Sullivan moves on, Op would fill his shoes nicely.

[pmoon6]

If Jerry Sullivan moves on, Op would fill his shoes nicely.Hopefully, Opie can manage not to drool and sound like a moron during interviews.

But, I won't hold my breath.

[OpIv37]

Last week the TOP was 33:41 to 26:19.

Number of plays was 76-73.

So, with over 7 more minutes of TOP Carolina ran 3 more plays.

Not the point.

The point is that if we had the ball more, they would have run fewer plays- maybe 60 or 65. It doesn't matter if we ran 120 or 50- the point is that the more time they have the ball, the more plays they run and the more chances they have to score.

[OpIv37]

You fail to point out the advantages of the up tempo. Keeping the defense confused with no time to adjust or substitute. Increasing the number of plays which you can score on. Maybe getting the defense to jump offsides. There has to be a reason why a lot of teams are using it.

Of course, you're job of keeping Bills' Fans grounded will never be at risk. It's great that you can separate yourself from the mundane "rah rah" types. I'm surprised the NFL Network hasn't offered you a job with your incisive analysis and objective opinion. Or maybe you can take a coordinators job.

BTW, the best Bills' teams in history used an up tempo offense. It was called the K-Gun. You were probably too young to remember.
Whatever the advantages are, they're not paying off. We have a loss and a game where we needed a llast second miracle to beat a mediocre out of conference opponent at home.

And I'm well aware that the best team ever used an up tempo offense. This team has a fraction of the talent of that team.

[Dr. Lecter]

Whatever the advantages are, they're not paying off. We have a loss and a game where we needed a llast second miracle to beat a mediocre out of conference opponent at home.

And I'm well aware that the best team ever used an up tempo offense. This team has a fraction of the talent of that team.

I love how you characterize the two games.

The Bills beating Carolina in an exciting last minute finish was a miracle.

The Bills losing to the Patriots in an exciting last minute finish was just a loss.

You are trying to hard to be critical on this one.

re-read what you are saying.

You are doing the same damn thing you rip the homers for

[better days]

Whatever the advantages are, they're not paying off. We have a loss and a game where we needed a llast second miracle to beat a mediocre out of conference opponent at home.

And I'm well aware that the best team ever used an up tempo offense. This team has a fraction of the talent of that team.

The Pats* game was MUCH CLOSER than you & many others predicted.

You better get used to the Bills uptempo offense & learn to LOVE it, because it is going to be a part of the Bills for a long time.

[Novacane]

Not the point.

The point is that if we had the ball more, they would have run fewer plays- maybe 60 or 65. It doesn't matter if we ran 120 or 50- the point is that the more time they have the ball, the more plays they run and the more chances they have to score.


OMG. You just love to argue! If they huddled you'd find a reason that was wrong too.

[pmoon6]

Whatever the advantages are, they're not paying off. We have a loss and a game where we needed a llast second miracle to beat a mediocre out of conference opponent at home.

And I'm well aware that the best team ever used an up tempo offense. This team has a fraction of the talent of that team.You have to give them time. I fail to see how you can be overwhelmingly critical with such a young offense. They are learning on the job. It's not the Veteran team the Bills' had in '90 and they had some bumps if you remember. Two games out of the first five were won with great defensive and special teams play.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any offense. You choose to focus on the latter. It's probably why you are disliked. If I want in depth analysis, I'll watch NFL shows where actual players and coaches breakdown the film rather than listen to some message board cretin that likes to shake everyone's tree.

[pmoon6]

I love how you characterize the two games.

The Bills beating Carolina in an exciting last minute finish was a miracle.

The Bills losing to the Patriots in an exciting last minute finish was just a loss.

You are trying to hard to be critical on this one.

re-read what you are saying.

You are doing the same damn thing you rip the homers forThe bottom line is we have been competitive in both games with a rookie QB, revamped O-Line, rookie middle linebacker, half our starting defensive backfield out hurt and a rookie HC and Offensive coordinator.

They can only improve.

Unfortunately, when some people don't get instant gratification, they whine, pout and think something's wrong.

[Novacane]

You have to give them time. I fail to see how you can be overwhelmingly critical with such a young offense. They are learning on the job. It's not the Veteran team the Bills' had in '90 and they had some bumps if you remember. Two games out of the first five were won with great defensive and special teams play.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any offense. You choose to focus on the latter. It's probably why you are disliked. If I want in depth analysis, I'll watch NFL shows where actual players and coaches breakdown the film rather than listen to some message board cretin that likes to shake everyone's tree.



No. It's more like obsess on the latter.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The defense cares, and fans will care when the tired D starts giving up run yardage in 15 yard chunks in the 4th quarter,

What makes you more tired, running a mile in 4 minutes or running a mile in 8 minutes?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Not the point.

The point is that if we had the ball more, they would have run fewer plays- maybe 60 or 65. It doesn't matter if we ran 120 or 50- the point is that the more time they have the ball, the more plays they run and the more chances they have to score.

That is one downside of the up-tempo philosophy. Marrone, who happens to do this at the highest professional level, happens to think there are advantages that outweigh that. You post as if no one thinks things through except you.

[OpIv37]

The Pats* game was MUCH CLOSER than you & many others predicted.

You better get used to the Bills uptempo offense & learn to LOVE it, because it is going to be a part of the Bills for a long time.

I'll love it if it starts to produce results. So far, it hasn't, so there is nothing impressive about having the quickest offense in the NFL.

And for the last time, the goal is to win the game, not to simply exceed the expectations of disgruntled message board posters.

[OpIv37]

OMG. You just love to argue! If they huddled you'd find a reason that was wrong too.

Really? Better days cited that running more plays gives the Bills more opportunies to score, but he failed t see that giving the other team more TOP and more chances to score as well.

Lecter compared our plays to their plays, which isn't the point- it's them havimg more plays than they cold have.

But I'm being argumentative for pointing that out?

Oh, I forgot. This is BZ. Youth on our opponents team means inexperience, youth on our team means improvement. More plays for us means more opportunities to score, more plays for them is irrelevant. Our coach being familiar with our opponent is an advantage-nevermind that it means our opponent is familiar with our coach as well....

[Dr. Lecter]

More plays does not necessarily give teams more chances to score - more possessions do. But not straight more plays.

But that would also results in more possessions for the Bills, thereby giving them more chances to score.

[justasportsfan]

maybe, but either way, justa's premise that we wouldn't have been able to come back at the end if it wasn't for playing the quick pace for two whole games is still absurd.

what? FActs are on my side. We won. I am right, you are wrong based on facts.

[JoeMama]

The funny thing about this season is normally I'd never want a rookie QB to start, but I was super relieved when EJ Manuel was cleared to start.

What's crazy is how cool and collected he's been under pressure.

My family are FSU fans so I saw almost every snap he took in college. Back then the knocks on him were things like holding the ball to long, taking stupid sacks, not having any touch on short passes, having middling arm strength, tucking and running too quickly, etc etc.

He's been the exact opposite so far. He doesn't seem rattled by anything. His release is quick. His arm strength is awesome, he looks effortless when he throws.

I love what I've seen. I wasn't thrilled with EJ at #16 due to the perception of "value" but I promised to keep an open mind and not be a myopic hater.

So far he's done me justice.

[justasportsfan]

Whatever the advantages are, they're not paying off. We have a loss and a game where we needed a llast second miracle to beat a mediocre out of conference opponent at home.

Negatives of a quick offense is less TOP. I agree BUT it prevents the D from readjusting , making subs, and tires them out too. In TYPICAL OP fashion, only harping on the negative.

How is it not paying off when we lost to the patriots but we lost in the last second of a ball game that YOU called out was supposed to be a BLOW OUT? YOU WERE WRONG!

We WON against the Panthers in the last second but a game we normally would lose in the past.

This is a young team thats still learning with a rookie qb .

[better days]

Not the point.

The point is that if we had the ball more, they would have run fewer plays- maybe 60 or 65. It doesn't matter if we ran 120 or 50- the point is that the more time they have the ball, the more plays they run and the more chances they have to score.

If the Bills do a better job of converting 3rd downs, they will have the ball for a longer time.

That is the answer to the problem, not to slow it down.

[jdaltroy5]

Not the point.

The point is that if we had the ball more, they would have run fewer plays- maybe 60 or 65. It doesn't matter if we ran 120 or 50- the point is that the more time they have the ball, the more plays they run and the more chances they have to score.
Sure, they would've run less plays as well, but you have to look at it as a ratio.

If we slow it down, the ratio is more favorable to them.

As an example, if we run a play every 20 seconds and they run a play every 30 seconds, we will run an extra play every minute.

If we slow it down, sure we're taking away plays from them, but we're GIVING up more plays than we're taking away since we're running them faster than they are.

[OpIv37]

More plays does not necessarily give teams more chances to score - more possessions do. But not straight more plays.

But that would also results in more possessions for the Bills, thereby giving them more chances to score.

But that was my whole point- both sides get more chances to score.

Better days said more plays were a good thing because it give us more chances to score, but he failed to acknowledge that it gives our opponents more time with the ball, hence more plays and more chances to score.

If more is better for us, it has to be better for our opponent too. He doesn't seem to get that. That's all I'm saying.

[stuckincincy]

I'm a long-time reader of those gamebook.pdf documents that nfl.com posts a day or so after a contest. Those with a hefty TOP differential tend to be the winners, in my viewings.

BTW - another factor that matters is the average drive start field position.

One could argue endlessly on TOP vs possessions etc.

Regarding the CAR game: It wasn't a grand display by either club. The CAR HC's strategy stunk - 9 straight runs to get to the BUF 21. 1:42 in the 4th and 1 he orders and gets a FG making it a 6 point lead. Run the ball! - get it, it's game over. And kudos to BUF for getting the ball down field sans time outs.

No wonder the CAR press excoriated him.

[BidsJr]

But that was my whole point- both sides get more chances to score.

Better days said more plays were a good thing because it give us more chances to score, but he failed to acknowledge that it gives our opponents more time with the ball, hence more plays and more chances to score.

If more is better for us, it has to be better for our opponent too. He doesn't seem to get that. That's all I'm saying.


Even with giving the opponent more plays per game this year, our D ranking is light years ahead of where it has been. So that means compared to the last few years, we are giving our O more chances, while our D (statistically) is doing even better than it had been. So it is an excellent trade off. We just need to capitalize better on our extra plays and we will be in business.

[BidsJr]

I'm a long-time reader of those gamebook.pdf documents that nfl.com posts a day or so after a contest. Those with a hefty TOP differential tend to be the winners, in my viewings.

BTW - another factor that matters is the average drive start field position.

One could argue endlessly on TOP vs possessions etc.

Regarding the CAR game: It wasn't a grand display by either club. The CAR HC's strategy stunk - 9 straight runs to get to the BUF 21. 1:42 in the 4th and 1 he orders and gets a FG making it a 6 point lead. Run the ball! - get it, it's game over. And kudos to BUF for getting the ball down field sans time outs.

No wonder the CAR press excoriated him.

As one who is a "long-time reader of those gamebook.pdf documents that nfl.com posts a day or so after a contest", should also understand that the TOP only flipped in favor of Carolina because of the last drive that milked 5 mins off the clock. Same with the Patriot game. If we had the advantage with 7 mins to play in those games and made first downs we would be in the + in TOP. For us at the moment it has more to do with the circumstances of the game rather than the design of the O.

[better days]

But that was my whole point- both sides get more chances to score.

Better days said more plays were a good thing because it give us more chances to score, but he failed to acknowledge that it gives our opponents more time with the ball, hence more plays and more chances to score.

If more is better for us, it has to be better for our opponent too. He doesn't seem to get that. That's all I'm saying.

What you fail to grasp is that extra time does the other team no good if they waste it in a huddle.

And if they don't huddle up, then they are running up tempo same as the Bills.

You have already been shown, 7 extra minutes resulted in only 3 extra plays.

If the Bills did not have a couple STUPID penalties, they would have had the ball for a longer period of time & the Panthers would have had less time & plays because they would have been forced to punt the ball to the Bills without those penalties.

[BidsJr]

What you fail to grasp is that extra time does the other team no good if they waste it in a huddle.

And if they don't huddle up, then they are running up tempo same as the Bills.

You have already been shown, 7 extra minutes resulted in only 3 extra plays.

If the Bills did not have a couple STUPID penalties, they would have had the ball for a longer period of time & the Panthers would have had less time & plays because they would have been forced to punt the ball to the Bills without those penalties.



To be fair we are -31 in plays run so far. Majority of that has to do with having both opponents in a 6 min drill to end both games. Regardless of that, our D is letting the other team capitalize much less with their extra play advantage than in years past.

[better days]

I'm a long-time reader of those gamebook.pdf documents that nfl.com posts a day or so after a contest. Those with a hefty TOP differential tend to be the winners, in my viewings.

BTW - another factor that matters is the average drive start field position.

One could argue endlessly on TOP vs possessions etc.

Regarding the CAR game: It wasn't a grand display by either club. The CAR HC's strategy stunk - 9 straight runs to get to the BUF 21. 1:42 in the 4th and 1 he orders and gets a FG making it a 6 point lead. Run the ball! - get it, it's game over. And kudos to BUF for getting the ball down field sans time outs.

No wonder the CAR press excoriated him.

And at the end of the first half, Carolina went down the field with about 2:00 minutes on the clock & scored a TD. STUPID of Rivera to play it "safe" like that.

I am so happy we have a HC willing to take risks. 2 point conversion questioned by the announcers at the time. 55 yd FG after a miss of a 45 yd field goal.

If Marrone does not make those risky moves, the Bills lose that game.

[better days]

To be fair we are -31 in plays run so far. Majority of that has to do with having both opponents in a 6 min drill to end both games. Regardless of that, our D is letting the other team capitalize much less with their extra play advantage than in years past.

Like I said, I think a big reason for that is STUPID penalties by the Bills that forced them to give up the ball or allowed the other team to keep it.

Cut down on the penalties & the Bills will have the ball longer.

[The Jokeman]

Thread title says "Bills have NFL's quickest offense." That doesn't sound like people understand it's a bad thing.

The sad fact is most think a quick offense is a good thing because of the "greatness" of the no huddle but in retrospect as great the no huddle was, when it was hitting on all cylinders and putting up points, for the offense it hurt the D because how much time they had to be on the field and as Super Bowl XXV should have taught us all that a quick offense that doesn't get the ball into the endzone is a bad thing. Heck last night's Eagles Chiefs game was another example.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I never said it was an indicator of poor performance. I said it wasn't a good thing, meaning that it has let to poor results: too few points, too little TOP, left the D on the field too long.

Being the "quickest offense" is not a goal in and of itself. There are no trophies or awards for it. The way we have implemented the "quickest" offense has not led to results. So, it is not a good thing.

But that again is completely incorrect. Please show me the correlation between the quickness of the offense and poor results? The Bills are 1/1 and the Broncos are 2/0.

Again, you are reaching a conclusion that I don't necessarily disagree with at the end of the day, but it is absolutely not a conclusion that can be reached by the data provided.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The reason we went to a no huddle is that it forces the defense into simple looks without the time to disguise anything. For a QB like EJ who has had trouble reading defenses, this is important. However, you cannot protect a QB forever so I'm hoping they show the ability to throttle it back this season and remain effective.

[better days]

The sad fact is most think a quick offense is a good thing because of the "greatness" of the no huddle but in retrospect as great the no huddle was, when it was hitting on all cylinders and putting up points, for the offense it hurt the D because how much time they had to be on the field and as Super Bowl XXV should have taught us all that a quick offense that doesn't get the ball into the endzone is a bad thing. Heck last night's Eagles Chiefs game was another example.

The Giants slowed down the Bills offense with BS INJURIES in that game.

And if Norwood makes a kick he makes 99 out of 100 times, the Bills win that games anyway.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The Giants slowed down the Bills offense with BS INJURIES in that game.

And if Norwood makes a kick he makes 99 out of 100 times, the Bills win that games anyway.

He was barely over 60% for his career in the 40-49 range. That kick wasn't even close to a gimme.

[The Jokeman]

The Giants slowed down the Bills offense with BS INJURIES in that game.

And if Norwood makes a kick he makes 99 out of 100 time, the Bills win that games anyway.

or if damned Jim Kelly makes one more play before calling the timeout before the kick we win that game. Asking Norwood who had questionable accuracy on grass to to kick that long of a field goal was just asking for it to be missed.

[Dr. Lecter]

or if damned Jim Kelly makes one more play before calling the timeout before the kick we win that game. Asking Norwood who had questionable accuracy on grass to to kick that long of a field goal was just asking for it to be missed.


Or if one Bills defender tackles Mark ****ing Ingram the Bills likely win.

Mark ****ing Ingram.

Dammit.

Now I am going to start crying again.

Bastards.

[MikeInRoch]

There may very well be a correlation between TOP and results - however, that doesn't necessarily imply causation. It may be that many teams tend to take more time when they are already winning. (Insert comment about week 1 late against New England here.)

[BuffaloRedleg]

There may very well be a correlation between TOP and results - however, that doesn't necessarily imply causation. It may be that many teams tend to take more time when they are already winning. (Insert comment about week 1 late against New England here.)

Listen man we all know that as ice cream sales increase drownings increase, so therefore ice cream causes drownings.

Let's not complicate things, many Bills fans start with their conclusion and walk it backwards from there. OpIvy seems to be one of those guys.

[justasportsfan]

we better win this weekend or OP will be out in full force *****ing about everything.

[BidsJr]

we better win this weekend or OP will be out in full force *****ing about everything.


Winning or losing has little to do with it.

[justasportsfan]

Winning or losing has little to do with it.

but winning would piss him off.

[better days]

To be fair we are -31 in plays run so far. Majority of that has to do with having both opponents in a 6 min drill to end both games. Regardless of that, our D is letting the other team capitalize much less with their extra play advantage than in years past.

And the first game against the Pats* really skews those numbers. The Pats* ran the most number of plays in the NFL last year.................................running an uptempo offense.

[BidsJr]

but winning would piss him off.

And give her something to complain about. You made my point (:

[stuckincincy]

As one who is a "long-time reader of those gamebook.pdf documents that nfl.com posts a day or so after a contest", should also understand that the TOP only flipped in favor of Carolina because of the last drive that milked 5 mins off the clock. Same with the Patriot game. If we had the advantage with 7 mins to play in those games and made first downs we would be in the + in TOP. For us at the moment it has more to do with the circumstances of the game rather than the design of the O.

We can bounce these endless stats like a circus juggler. Of course circumstances mean a lot.

It has been my observation - over the long run - that if you have a fat TOP differential, you tend to be the winner. Son, I'm aware that a game has 4 quarters. The military uses the term "situation awareness."

I'm not blind to the rule changes, that the NFL is an entertainment business, that ref calls can be iffy or the subject of conspiracy theories (with justification, IMO). And that is part of the fun of watching.


No doubt folks are tired of me saying that football is a 4 act play that's been running for over a century, and that there is nothing - nothing - that hasn't been seen before.

But as we parse and bit*h back and forth about numbers - the CAR HC and his staff nicely laid the table for BUF for the win. The positive thing here is that BUF picked up the utensils and ate the meal.


Do invoke CBSSport's and nfl.com's game center/gamebook sites during a game. You get a good feel for how the trends, the play calling progresses.

[BuffaloRedleg]

We can bounce these endless stats like a circus juggler. Of course circumstances mean a lot.

It has been my observation - over the long run - that if you have a fat TOP differential, you tend to be the winner. Son, I'm aware that a game has 4 quarters. The military uses the term "situation awareness."

I'm not blind to the rule changes, that the NFL is an entertainment business, that ref calls can be iffy or the subject of conspiracy theories (with justification, IMO). And that is part of the fun of watching.


No doubt folks are tired of me saying that football is a 4 act play that's been running for over a century, and that there is nothing - nothing - that hasn't been seen before.

But as we parse and bit*h back and forth about numbers - the CAR HC and his staff nicely laid the table for BUF for the win. The positive thing here is that BUF picked up the utensils and ate the meal.


Do invoke CBSSport's and nfl.com's game center/gamebook sites during a game. You get a good feel for how the trends, the play calling progresses.

I'll never understand why many Bills fans try so hard to give all the credit to the other team when we win and credit to our team when we lose.

Bills lose a close one to the Pats--- Bills blew it we should have won we are terrible!
Bills win a close one against Carolina--- Carolina blew it we should have lost because we are terrible!

Most of us are so paralyzed by years of losing that it becomes a zero sum game.

[stuckincincy]

I'll never understand why many Bills fans try so hard to give all the credit to the other team when we win and credit to our team when we lose.

Bills lose a close one to the Pats--- Bills blew it we should have won we are terrible!
Bills win a close one against Carolina--- Carolina blew it we should have lost because we are terrible!

Most of us are so paralyzed by years of losing that it becomes a zero sum game.

Nicely - sadly - put. :candle:

[braddavery]

Except that giving the other team more TOP means they get the chance to run more plays, which also increases THEIR chances of scoring.

Once again, your lack of objectivity clouds your thinking.

Are you implying that Marrone's studies concluding that 'The more plays you run, the better chance you have to score points.' are wrong?

[OpIv37]

I'll never understand why many Bills fans try so hard to give all the credit to the other team when we win and credit to our team when we lose.

Bills lose a close one to the Pats--- Bills blew it we should have won we are terrible!
Bills win a close one against Carolina--- Carolina blew it we should have lost because we are terrible!

Most of us are so paralyzed by years of losing that it becomes a zero sum game.

The Pats game was a game we could have won against a division rival, but we choked. One or two less mistakes and we win that game. We only managed 14 offensive points as one TD came off the turnover.

The Carolina game was exciting in the moment but when you look at the bigger picture, it took last minute heroics to beat a mediocre out of conference game. Two late turnovers, again too many penalties.

Once again, it's about the bigger picture. NE and Miami already have a game and a tiebreaker on us, and while I don't expect this team to make the playoffs, we have to consider these things as long as it's still a mathematical possibility. How many teams on the schedule do you REALLY think we are going to beat playing like we did against the Panthers? It won't be many.

I'll never understand why so many Bills fans have accepted mediocrity. They think Nix drafted well because he was less horrid than his predecessors. They get excited about almost not losing to the Patriots. They get excited abou players who had two good games after sucking for several years. And they think being the quickest offense in the NFL somehow means something.

[braddavery]

It has been my observation - over the long run - that if you have a fat TOP differential, you tend to be the winner.

Sure, but are you taking into account whether those winning teams with higher TOP are playing teams who run no-huddle offenses, or are you simply observing the information as a whole and not taking the no-huddle into account?

[Novacane]

we better win this weekend or OP will be out in full force *****ing about everything.



You know better than that. He'll be out *****ing even if they win.

[mayotm]

The Pats game was a game we could have won against a division rival, but we choked. One or two less mistakes and we win that game. We only managed 14 offensive points as one TD came off the turnover.

The Carolina game was exciting in the moment but when you look at the bigger picture, it took last minute heroics to beat a mediocre out of conference game. Two late turnovers, again too many penalties.

Once again, it's about the bigger picture. NE and Miami already have a game and a tiebreaker on us, and while I don't expect this team to make the playoffs, we have to consider these things as long as it's still a mathematical possibility. How many teams on the schedule do you REALLY think we are going to beat playing like we did against the Panthers? It won't be many.

I'll never understand why so many Bills fans have accepted mediocrity. They think Nix drafted well because he was less horrid than his predecessors. They get excited about almost not losing to the Patriots. They get excited abou players who had two good games after sucking for several years. And they think being the quickest offense in the NFL somehow means something.Taking a moment to enjoy an exciting win is not "accepting mediocrity". It's simply enjoying the moment. I suggest you give it a try. You might be a much happier person.

[sukie]

Is that quickest to jump offsides at a crucial moment?

[BuffaloRedleg]

The Pats game was a game we could have won against a division rival, but we choked. One or two less mistakes and we win that game. We only managed 14 offensive points as one TD came off the turnover.

The Carolina game was exciting in the moment but when you look at the bigger picture, it took last minute heroics to beat a mediocre out of conference game. Two late turnovers, again too many penalties.

Once again, it's about the bigger picture. NE and Miami already have a game and a tiebreaker on us, and while I don't expect this team to make the playoffs, we have to consider these things as long as it's still a mathematical possibility. How many teams on the schedule do you REALLY think we are going to beat playing like we did against the Panthers? It won't be many.

I'll never understand why so many Bills fans have accepted mediocrity. They think Nix drafted well because he was less horrid than his predecessors. They get excited about almost not losing to the Patriots. They get excited abou players who had two good games after sucking for several years. And they think being the quickest offense in the NFL somehow means something.

That's all fine and dandy but we have to give credit when credit is due. Certainly there were moral victories in competing with the Pats just as there are demoralizing things about the Panthers victory. Some people only see the positives while others only see the negatives.

I'm assuming you are in the negative group.

[OpIv37]

Taking a moment to enjoy an exciting win is not "accepting mediocrity". It's simply enjoying the moment. I suggest you give it a try. You might be a much happier person.

I took a moment. If you read my post, I even said it was exciting in the moment.

But the moment's over. Next game is in two days

[OpIv37]

That's all fine and dandy but we have to give credit when credit is due. Certainly there were moral victories in competing with the Pats just as there are demoralizing things about the Panthers victory. Some people only see the positives while others only see the negatives.

I'm assuming you are in the negative group.
I'm in the reality group, and when a team performs as poorly as the Bills, there is a lot more negative than positive, and it's the negative driving the outcomes. It sucks, but it is what it is.

[justasportsfan]

The Pats game was a game we could have won against a division rival, but we choked. One or two less mistakes and we win that game. We only managed 14 offensive points as one TD came off the turnover.

The Carolina game was exciting in the moment but when you look at the bigger picture, it took last minute heroics to beat a mediocre out of conference game. Two late turnovers, again too many penalties.

Once again, it's about the bigger picture. NE and Miami already have a game and a tiebreaker on us, and while I don't expect this team to make the playoffs, we have to consider these things as long as it's still a mathematical possibility. How many teams on the schedule do you REALLY think we are going to beat playing like we did against the Panthers? It won't be many.

I'll never understand why so many Bills fans have accepted mediocrity. They think Nix drafted well because he was less horrid than his predecessors. They get excited about almost not losing to the Patriots. They get excited abou players who had two good games after sucking for several years. And they think being the quickest offense in the NFL somehow means something.

the big picture is that with a new team with rookies all over the place, we came close to beating a team that has owned us and blown us in 10 years and won a game that we usually lose .

It's a work in progress but comapred to other Era's, it's a decent start.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I'm in the reality group, and when a team performs as poorly as the Bills, there is a lot more negative than positive, and it's the negative driving the outcomes. It sucks, but it is what it is.

But to refuse to acknowledge the positives is sort of close minded.

At the end of the day we are 1/1, doing better than I thought we would. Playing much better than I thought they would. My bar was set pretty low, but it is what it is.

That being said, it's not like the franchise or Ralph have earned the benefit of the doubt. I just choose to give it to them for my own sanity.

[stuckincincy]

Sure, but are you taking into account whether those winning teams with higher TOP are playing teams who run no-huddle offenses, or are you simply observing the information as a whole and not taking the no-huddle into account?


Beats me - that's the charm of football. I leave it to the thousands and thousands of sites out there. :kid:

I do see the years of TOP stuff. Take it for what you will.

BTW - good post. Clear, point well expressed, no overt or subtle rancor. No hidden agenda.

Are you sure you want to be posting on a Bills site? :D:

[Dr. Lecter]

I'm in the reality group, and when a team performs as poorly as the Bills, there is a lot more negative than positive, and it's the negative driving the outcomes. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Except this year, so far, the negatives really do not outrank the positives

[BuffaloRedleg]

Except this year, so far, the negatives really do not outrank the positives

I have met many negative Bills fans, my father included, and I really can't blame them too much. Like I said, the team has not earned the benefit of the doubt over the years and the many years of frustration can weigh on a person's psyche.

I try to look at each coaching regime as a separate entity and judge each one on their own merits. Others see it as "same old Bills" which on a more sophisticated level is obviously a silly assertion that people make out of frustration. It's one thing to get frustrated with a coach or a GM or an owner (which might be valid even to this day), but to just throw out "oh it's the Bills and everything they do is always wrong" like a lot of people do is just lazy.

Like you said there have been more positives than negatives, and there is no reason to not be pleasantly surprised so far with the team and their new QB. That doesn't mean it can't change, and these negatives so far may manifest themselves in even worse ways later, but with the sample size so far I don't understand how someone can be overwhelmingly negative on the team unless they are totally just broken as a fan. I really feel bad for them, but I certainly understand.

My only issue are the ones who seem to relish being right about the Bills failures and feel it is their duty to ruin everyone's time. With your home team it's not supposed to be about being right all the time, it's supposed to be fun. It's fun to be a part of a group and believe together and get pissed together. People obsessed with being the contrarian opinion about a sports team are just being petty and really must be awfully boring at parties.

[The Popcorn]

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/1384/bills-have-nfls-quickest-offense

Through two games, the Buffalo Bills actually have the NFL's fastest offense, at least by one metric.

Dividing time of possession by number of plays, the Bills get one play off every 21.8 seconds of possession, first in the NFL. Meanwhile, the Eagles rank third (23.3 seconds per play)..........

Bills -- 21.8 seconds per play
Broncos -- 23.2 seconds
Eagles -- 23.3 seconds
Ravens -- 24.4 seconds
Patriots -- 25.0 seconds
Packers -- 25.3 seconds

That's an average of 65.4 seconds for a 3 and out. The defense is in trouble if the offense isn't getting first downs.

[pmoon6]

or if damned Jim Kelly makes one more play before calling the timeout before the kick we win that game. Asking Norwood who had questionable accuracy on grass to to kick that long of a field goal was just asking for it to be missed.We could have run one more play with 8 seconds. Even if we get just 5 yards. Asking any kicker to boot it from 43 on grass is far from a sure thing.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

We could have run one more play with 8 seconds. Even if we get just 5 yards. Asking any kicker to boot it from 43 on grass is far from a sure thing.

And if they got tackled inbounds the game would end. No, I wouldn't have run another play.

[pmoon6]

And if they got tackled inbounds the game would end. No, I wouldn't have run another play.Sure, it's a toss up and we're looking at it in hindsight. Since we are speculating, why not run a quick out where it's either caught and the receiver runs out of bounds or it's incomplete. Might take 4 or 5 seconds.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Sure, it's a toss up and we're looking at it in hindsight. Since we are speculating, why not run a quick out where it's either caught and the receiver runs out of bounds or it's incomplete. Might take 4 or 5 seconds.

Because every single defender knows that's the only play you can run so they'll sit on it. You're trading, at best, five yards for the risk of losing the game on a pick or running out of time.

[pmoon6]

Because every single defender knows that's the only play you can run so they'll sit on it. You're trading, at best, five yards for the risk of losing the game on a pick or running out of time.Like I said, it's a tough call. But, isn't it just as risky to have Norwood try the FG at the limit of his range?

BTW, I was watching a show awhile back where it was pointed out that Reich got the laces pointed towards Scott. It looked like it when it was slowed down.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Like I said, it's a tough call. But, isn't it just as risky to have Norwood try the FG at the limit of his range?

Well he still has to make a long distance kick even if you get the 5 yards. Its not like they could run a play into the endzone.


BTW, I was watching a show awhile back where it was pointed out that Reich got the laces pointed towards Scott. It looked like it when it was slowed down.

LACES OUT, DAN!

[mayotm]

Beats me - that's the charm of football. I leave it to the thousands and thousands of sites out there. :kid:

I do see the years of TOP stuff. Take it for what you will.

BTW - good post. Clear, point well expressed, no overt or subtle rancor. No hidden agenda.

Are you sure you want to be posting on a Bills site? :D:What a complete load of crap. You're one of the most condescending people posting on this board, yet are surprised when you get negative reactions to your posts.

[stuckincincy]

What a complete load of crap. You're one of the most condescending people posting on this board, yet are surprised when you get negative reactions to your posts.

Good Lord - Salacious Crumb posts again... :maggie:

[mayotm]

Good Lord - Salacious Crumb posts again... :maggie:
Pathetic.

[Gilly]

Thread title says "Bills have NFL's quickest offense." That doesn't sound like people understand it's a bad thing.


You are wrong. It is a great thing. I hope we get even quicker...

[Mace]

I guess I just find it more interesting that Chip Kelly gets all the publicity for his lightning offense.

I have my gripes with a speed no huddle, I had them in the 90's too. I shut up really fast when we started shredding people over time as they gained experience in it. The strengths and weaknesses of a no huddle speed offense are defined by what it produces because of how it is executed. Right now it's all ojt, evaluating how everyone is performing in the process.

I'll get cranky if it doesn't work, will shut up fast if it does, and don't have the vaguest clue which way it will go.

I think they should have slowed it down against the Pats in the 4th, but also thought Marv Levy was the stupidest coaching choice they ever made and it annoyed me when they hired Marchibroda.

It's been 2 games of a new era. Maybe give them a couple more to see what happens since we're going to have to for a couple years anyway.

But Kelly is changing the NFL with his lightning offense that isn't as fast as other offenses that aren't as lightning. Maybe Marrone can give him a few tips on how to speed it up.

[justasportsfan]

Anyone watching how the panthers are dominating the giants O so far? Maybe the quick offense is a great thing

[OpIv37]

Except this year, so far, the negatives really do not outrank the positives

How so? Still losing the TOP battle, still losing division games, still too many penalties, still too many turnovers, still have vets who don't come through, we're still only 1-1 with the loss being a game we could have won with one or two less mistakes and the win coming on a last second miracle against a mediocre out of conference opponent.

I'll give you this: there is more reason for optimism in the future than there has been in a long time. As far as what's happened on the field so far, it's even at best. You can't say the team has more positives than negatives when we don't even have a winning record.

[BuffaloRedleg]

How so? Still losing the TOP battle, still losing division games, still too many penalties, still too many turnovers, still have vets who don't come through, we're still only 1-1 with the loss being a game we could have won with one or two less mistakes and the win coming on a last second miracle against a mediocre out of conference opponent.

I'll give you this: there is more reason for optimism in the future than there has been in a long time. As far as what's happened on the field so far, it's even at best. You can't say the team has more positives than negatives when we don't even have a winning record.

What would you say if we win today? I know it depends on how we win, but humor us.