EJ Manuel after 4 games

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I felt he finally played like a rookie this past game, Some nice short passes. Some hit and miss (INT) on the long balls, Lesson on forced tight throws (to Stevie which turned to INT - these throws must be on time in sync in traffic), and some juggled handoffs.

EJ missed some time in pre-season. The first 2 games almost like feeling out from our coaches and opposing teams. Those two games showed that he has a natural composure/leadership, but really not much more. Then the Jets are the first team really had time and tape to game plan for him and exposed him somewhat. I feel from this point on, you may see typical rookie QB stuff from EJ. Hopefully later in the season, he shows improvement and adjustments to what they throw at him especially for repeat defensive looks that gives him trouble the first time.

[Novacane]

The throw to SJ hit him right in the hands.

[RedEyE]

He certainly gets some wiggle room this year and will need to grow into the position. For a rookie he has an incredible amount of poise and there are some flashes of greatness for sure.

Adjustments and time.

[YardRat]

The kid, at times, looks like he belongs in this league. I like the way he carries himself on the field.

[X-Era]

I felt he finally played like a rookie this past game, Some nice short passes. Some hit and miss (INT) on the long balls, Lesson on forced tight throws (to Stevie which turned to INT - these throws must be on time in sync in traffic), and some juggled handoffs.

EJ missed some time in pre-season. The first 2 games almost like feeling out from our coaches and opposing teams. Those two games showed that he has a natural composure/leadership, but really not much more. Then the Jets are the first team really had time and tape to game plan for him and exposed him somewhat. I feel from this point on, you may see typical rookie QB stuff from EJ. Hopefully later in the season, he shows improvement and adjustments to what they throw at him especially for repeat defensive looks that gives him trouble the first time.Agree and disagree.

I agree that we will likely see some rookie play for a while.

Where I disagree is that we've only seen rookie play.



The game winning drive against the Panthers was not a rookie drive. Hell Fitz would have lost that game.
The fade throw to Stevie for the TD over double defenders was not a rookie throw.
The long TD throw to Woods in this past game was not a rookie throw.
The lack of INT's and at least 1 TD throw through 4 games was not rookie.
The poise and high completion percentage in half the games was not rookie. The other half was.


Like I said in the other post, He's better than Fitz already and we were looking for an upgrade at least.

There is no reason to think he won't continue to minimize the errors. He may or may not ever become a franchise QB. But he has played much more like a solid NFL QB than a rookie in my opinion.

[Skooby]

The throw to SJ hit him right in the hands.

EJ threw it too fast into his chest.

[K-Gun]

What I'm seeing from EJ that looks like "rookie" play is on the mental side of the game. It seems like at times he gets flustered under pressure and forgets his footwork. Also, it looks to me that things are moving fast for him, and at times its caused hesitation combined with this frantic energy. At some point the game is going to slow down for him. By biggest concern w/ the accuracy & footwork issues comes from the mental side of the game. He's had enough big passes in a perfect positon to see the upside. But for him its going to be about correcting not just the footwork, but to develop the mental consistency to throw those strikes when the wr is open. That INT under throw to Woods is the perfect example.

[RedEyE]

You hate to harp on a guy about the speed in which he releases the ball. I mean Brett Favre has broken receiver fingers on 5 yard zone hooks. The window of opportunity is slight. I say the receivers need to do a better job of catching the ball despite the velocity.

[Forward_Lateral]

Like I said in my thread, he played much, much better than his stat line showed today.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Like I said in my thread, he played much, much better than his stat line showed today.

He actually played very, very badly. If Manuel had been even average yesterday we would have blown them off the field.

[TacklingDummy]

His best throws were the incompletions to Woods and Chandler.
All the Bills games this year have been close because of inconsistent QB play.

[Forward_Lateral]

He actually played very, very badly. If Manuel had been even average yesterday we would have blown them off the field.


If Lee Smith doesn't fall down, this isn't even a conversation. I'm not even going to mention Woods' over turned TD, or Chandler's over turned catch.

[RedEyE]

I really wouldn't mind seeing a QB coach added to the coaching roster. I can't imagine the young Hackett has the time to game plan and provide EJ with the proper insight to better himself. Hackett himself is new to this level of play. Bring in a QB coach that has the time to help EJ.

[TacklingDummy]

If Lee Smith doesn't fall down, this isn't even a conversation. I'm not even going to mention Woods' over turned TD, or Chandler's over turned catch.

On the other hand if Stevie Johnson doesn't out wrestle the CB against him for EJ's fumble, the Bills probably end up losing this game.

[Forward_Lateral]

On the other hand if Stevie Johnson doesn't out wrestle the CB against him for EJ's fumble, the Bills probably end up losing this game.

He didn't out wrestle anybody, lol. He crawled onto the ball. If Cordy Glenn doesn't eat a bucket of chicken before the game, he picks up EJ's first fumble instead of pretending it was vegetables.

[Night Train]

I'm a fan...but for the love of God, will someone on the O coaching staff show him how to set his feet before throwing.

Too many arm throws which kills his accuracy and shorts those long balls. If he can clean that up..

[TacklingDummy]

He didn't out wrestle anybody, lol. He crawled onto the ball.

Watch the beginning of the play when the fumble first happens.

[Forward_Lateral]

Watch the beginning of the play when the fumble first happens.

At least SJ did something to help them win yesterday. It made up for the ball that hit him in the hands and got picked off.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If Lee Smith doesn't fall down, this isn't even a conversation. I'm not even going to mention Woods' over turned TD, or Chandler's over turned catch.

Well I'm going to mention him sliding a yard short of the first down in the red zone when he easily could have picked it up, underthrowing Woods that turned into a INT, overthrowing Johnson when he was the most open he's ever been in his career, and getting strip-sacked twice inside our own 30.

I mean, that's 18 points he left on the field and nearly gave the game back. He went 10/22 on a day when our run game was utterly gashing the Ravens.

[TacklingDummy]

At least SJ did something to help them win yesterday. It made up for the ball that hit him in the hands and got picked off.

He did 2 positive things yesterday, he recovered the game saving fumble and he made that diving reception that he caught somehow.

[ublinkwescore]

they need to coach him to that if there is no one deeper than his targeted wr, it is better to over throw his guy than under throw it. make your wr dig for it a little bit...he places that 4th quarter int just 3 yards deeper than it was, we have 7 more points and the game is over.

- - - Updated - - -

they need to coach him to that if there is no one deeper than his targeted wr, it is better to over throw his guy than under throw it. make your wr dig for it a little bit...he places that 4th quarter int just 3 yards deeper than it was, we have 7 more points and the game is over.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

they need to coach him to that if there is no one deeper than his targeted wr, it is better to over throw his guy than under throw it. make your wr dig for it a little bit...he places that 4th quarter int just 3 yards deeper than it was, we have 7 more points and the game is over.

- - - Updated - - -

they need to coach him to that if there is no one deeper than his targeted wr, it is better to over throw his guy than under throw it. make your wr dig for it a little bit...he places that 4th quarter int just 3 yards deeper than it was, we have 7 more points and the game is over.

I'm actually not concerned about that INT at all. He played with Wood 4 games only and both are rookies. EJ's problem for long balls the first 3 games had been over throws, not giving his guy a chance. So he's adjusting and made an under throw - it's going to happen. In the picture, it's right in the projected path of growth. He has the right read and has the arm. Connections will come.

[justasportsfan]

He looks like a rookie at times and he looks like a decent qb at times. I didn't mind his INT to Woods . He had the balls to throw it deep this time and I'm all for that instead of dinking the ball . He put too much air in it that he underthrew Woods like Fitz but again I like the effort. Instead of dinking it and having to punt it, the INT pinned the ravens deep which is okay with me.

I hope he gets better and I think he will but sometimes he frustates the crap out of me because I expect more from him than I did with our past qb's.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I hope he gets better and I think he will but sometimes he frustates the crap out of me because I expect more from him than I did with our past qb's.

Really? for a rookie in his first 4 games? I expected less and I was happy to see what I saw.

[justasportsfan]

Really? for a rookie in his first 4 games? I expected less and I was happy to see what I saw.

Bills reached for JP, Trent was drafted in the 3rd, and Fitz is a back up so yes yes I expect more from him . He was drafted to be the franchise qb and all the talk about his intangibles and leadership qualities, I expect more.

[better days]

He actually played very, very badly. If Manuel had been even average yesterday we would have blown them off the field.

EJ played well enough to WIN against the World Champion Ravens. Flacco with his 5 INTs is the QB that played VERY VERY BADLY in that game.

[justasportsfan]

The Bills' D played well enough to WIN against the World Champion Ravens. Flacco with his 5 INTs is the QB that played VERY VERY BADLY in that game.

Fixed :D

[PTI]

Chandler throw was impressive.

[MikeInRoch]

Bills reached for JP, Trent was drafted in the 3rd, and Fitz is a back up so yes yes I expect more from him . He was drafted to be the franchise qb and all the talk about his intangibles and leadership qualities, I expect more.

If you expect more in his first four NFL games, then you have completely unrealistic expectations.

[better days]

Fixed :D

The Defense played GREAT BUT they did not score any points with the turnovers they created.

If EJ & the Bills offense did not take advantage of those turnovers & score points, the Bills lose that game.

EJ did not play GREAT............................but he played WELL ENOUGH to get the WIN.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

EJ played well enough to WIN against the World Champion Ravens. Flacco with his 5 INTs is the QB that played VERY VERY BADLY in that game.

Flacco did play badly, I'm not disputing that. He wasn't helped by his gameplan, but 5 picks is five picks.

That said, Manuel threw for a 45% completion rate, less than 150 net yards, had two picks and two fumbles of his own. One which nearly gave the Ravens the ball inside our 30 with less than 3 minutes left. His TD throw to Woods was amazing but he was terrible most of the day - on a day when his defense and run game were beasting. That's a horrendous game.

[better days]

Flacco did play badly, I'm not disputing that. He wasn't helped by his gameplan, but 5 picks is five picks.

That said, Manuel threw for a 45% completion rate, less than 150 net yards, had two picks and two fumbles of his own. One which nearly gave the Ravens the ball inside our 30 with less than 3 minutes left. His TD throw to Woods was amazing but he was terrible most of the day - on a day when his defense and run game were beasting. That's a horrendous game.

I agree it was not a good game for EJ, but like I said he played well enough to win & he was the better QB in that game as bad as he was because Flacco had the worst game I ever saw him play.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I agree it was not a good game for EJ, but like I said he played well enough to win & he was the better QB in that game as bad as he was because Flacco had the worst game I ever saw him play.

"Played well enough to win" is damning with faint praise. Like I said, with the way the D and Jackson were humming even an average QB performance blows this game out of reach. Yet we needed Aaron Williams to run down Torrey Smith from behind, Johnson scooping a fumble, and Alonso picking off Flacco to win by 3 points.

[justasportsfan]

The Defense played GREAT BUT they did not score any points with the turnovers they created.

If EJ & the Bills offense did not take advantage of those turnovers & score points, the Bills lose that game.

EJ did not play GREAT............................but he played WELL ENOUGH to get the WIN.

EJ didn't win the game but he didn't lose it either. The running game gets more props IMO than EJ

[jdaltroy5]

I think he's played about as well as I expect a mid round rookie to play. He played cautiously for the first three games, preferring to stay with the safe, short balls. When he did have a guy open deep, he would make sure that ONLY his guy would have a shot at it. Unfortunately, most of those balls landed in the stands.

This game, it looked like he was being a bit more aggressive and trying to actually give his receivers a shot rather than just being cautious and airmailing it. I didn't mind the interception, as long as it doesn't affect him and make him go back to airmailing it.

Overall, I'm not blown away by his performances, but I'm happy with his progress.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I'm not 1 for cheery picking... But there were only a few "uncatchable" balls thrown by EJ yesterday. He very well could have had 2 More TD'S (Woods and the stumbling TE)... And at least 2 or 3 additional completions that hit the hands of receivers (including Chandlers reviewed attempt).

Not trying to make excuses for the kid... Just showing how close he actually is. He continues to meet my expectations for a rookie with franchise potential.

All that said... He needs to keep 2 hands on the ball when scrambling.

[Forward_Lateral]

He didn't look Losmanesque this week like he did last week. He had a Losmanesque stat line, but he didn't play anywhere close to that. Last week, I could've sworn it was JP back there throwing deep bombs 10 yards out of bounds.

[jdaltroy5]

I'm not 1 for cheery picking... But there were only a few "uncatchable" balls thrown by EJ yesterday. He very well could have had 2 More TD'S (Woods and the stumbling TE)... And at least 2 or 3 additional completions that hit the hands of receivers (including Chandlers reviewed attempt).

Not trying to make excuses for the kid... Just showing how close he actually is. He continues to meet my expectations for a rookie with franchise potential.

All that said... He needs to keep 2 hands on the ball when scrambling.Speaking of cherry picking... I don't think he could've had 2 more TDs as I believe those plays happened consecutively.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bills won yesterday in spite of Manuel's horrendous play. Sorry but that's not something I want in my franchise QB.

Sure he had a couple nice throws, it's hard for someone to suck for the whole game.

[TacklingDummy]

I expect my rookie QB to hit wide open receivers, catch able dump offs, and ball security. Football 101.
That's not too much to expect.

[Thief]

He did 2 positive things yesterday, he recovered the game saving fumble and he made that diving reception that he caught somehow.
That catch didn't count. Like, literally, it didn't count.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I think you might be correct... I'll need to look into that.

[Yasgur's Farm]

100% correct.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I expect my rookie QB to hit wide open receivers, catch able dump offs, and ball security. Football 101.
That's not too much to expect.You're overplaying your hand regarding "wide open receivers"... You know as well as me that he had a guy in his face and had to let it fly.

As for ball security... As I stated, he needs to learn to keep both hands on the ball while dropping back or scrambling. I'm OK with the INT's because...
1) I want him to continue to throw deep and learn.
2) The other was off SJ13's hands regardless of anything else.

[jdaltroy5]

Sure he had a couple nice throws, it's hard for someone to suck for the whole game.
No it's not.

Where have you been for the last 15 years?

[Mr. Pink]

Yesterday was easily Manuel's best start as a Bill.

He actually hit some NFL caliber throws, went downfield and hit some receivers, positioned a pass to Woods in the endzone perfectly - was just an even better defensive play by Jimmy Smith.

He still missed on some throws and he needs to work on getting set before launching the ball but yesterday was a step in the right direction.

[Yasgur's Farm]

That catch didn't count. Like, literally, it didn't count.I like facts!

[Mr. Cynical]

I really wouldn't mind seeing a QB coach added to the coaching roster. I can't imagine the young Hackett has the time to game plan and provide EJ with the proper insight to better himself. Hackett himself is new to this level of play. Bring in a QB coach that has the time to help EJ.

Love this idea. And I can think of one guy I'd like to see doing it, although it'd never happen. His last name rhymes with Jelly. ;)

[kishoph]

If Lee Smith doesn't fall down, this isn't even a conversation. I'm not even going to mention Woods' over turned TD, or Chandler's over turned catch.


Those passes plus the int. that went off of Stevie's hands, all in the 2nd half, account for 3 incompletions and an int. on his stat line, where 2 of them would of been TD's and one would of been a 24 yard pick up. Nowhere have I seen anyone mention the ball that traveled 49 yards through the air and landed right in Robert Woods bread basket for a TD, only how bad he looked. In his first 4 games as a rookie, we've seen him make plays, that we haven't seen from a Bills QB in years.
It gets sickening that the majority of stuff you read on this board is negative nit picking from people that refer to themselves as "Fans." I literally laugh every time I hear someone say that the Bills have the best fans, maybe the most fickle, unappreciative and band wagon jumping fans, but the best, not from the garbage I read on these boards.

[jimmifli]

I'm a fan...but for the love of God, will someone on the O coaching staff show him how to set his feet before throwing.

Too many arm throws which kills his accuracy and shorts those long balls. If he can clean that up..
Every coach he's had since high school has tried to correct it.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Those passes plus the int. that went off of Stevie's hands, all in the 2nd half, account for 3 incompletions and an int. on his stat line, where 2 of them would of been TD's and one would of been a 24 yard pick up. Nowhere have I seen anyone mention the ball that traveled 49 yards through the air and landed right in Robert Woods bread basket for a TD, only how bad he looked. In his first 4 games as a rookie, we've seen him make plays, that we haven't seen from a Bills QB in years.
It gets sickening that the majority of stuff you read on this board is negative nit picking from people that refer to themselves as "Fans." I literally laugh every time I hear someone say that the Bills have the best fans, maybe the most fickle, unappreciative and band wagon jumping fans, but the best, not from the garbage I read on these boards.

We had a pick that ricocheted off Dickson's hands too. It happens. I'd give him a pass if these were bracketed by better plays, but he was erratic all day. I'm saying it again - if not for Johnson recovering EJ's fumble and bailing him out, we are looking at a QB that accounted for four turnovers and gave Baltimore the ball on our own 22 with >3:30 left.

[kishoph]

We had a pick that ricocheted off Dickson's hands too. It happens. I'd give him a pass if these were bracketed by better plays, but he was erratic all day. I'm saying it again - if not for Johnson recovering EJ's fumble and bailing him out, we are looking at a QB that accounted for four turnovers and gave Baltimore the ball on our own 22 with >3:30 left.

There's no doubt that he didn't have a great game, but hardly ever do you see anyone give him credit for what he does do out there, he's a rookie in his 4th game that didn't even have a full preseason, yet people are expecting him to be Payton Manning. Take a look at Russell Wilson's or Andrew Luck's stats from their first 4 games last year, they're almost comparable, (except for Luck's yards). As I said it just gets sickening seeing these so called fans do nothing but try to knock down everything every Bills player does.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

There's no doubt that he didn't have a great game, but hardly ever do you see anyone give him credit for what he does do out there, he's a rookie in his 4th game that didn't even have a full preseason, yet people are expecting him to be Payton Manning. Take a look at Russell Wilson's or Andrew Luck's stats from their first 4 games last year, they're almost comparable, (except for Luck's yards). As I said it just gets sickening seeing these so called fans do nothing but try to knock down everything every Bills player does.

I'm not expecting him to be Manning, I'm expecting him to protect the football. Mind you, this wasn't a time where he was asked to win a shootout or come from behind. The run game and defense were completely on fire, and he nearly cost us that entire effort.

I'm not burying him, but for god's sakes call it what it was. A horrible day from a rookie QB.

[BillsFever21]

He started off on fire but the last couple quarters or so he played very poorly. Three total turnovers and almost another 4th one almost killed the game. Once again our offense couldn't put the game away after we built up a decent lead.

We were horrendous in the 2nd half and we kept letting them hang around. Luckily our defense came up with a couple late stops to hold them to FG's and Alonso made a nice play to intercept the final pass of the game. With all the interceptions we should've easily had this game put away if we did anything on offense in the 2nd half.

And what was with the final series of the game? I've never seen a team make it so difficult to run out the clock with under a minute go and the lead. Manuel got drilled each time.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

He started off on fire but the last couple quarters or so he played very poorly. Three total turnovers and almost another 4th one almost killed the game. Once again our offense couldn't put the game away after we built up a decent lead.

We were horrendous in the 2nd half and we kept letting them hang around. Luckily our defense came up with a couple late stops to hold them to FG's and Alonso made a nice play to intercept the final pass of the game. With all the interceptions we should've easily had this game put away if we did anything on offense in the 2nd half.

And what was with the final series of the game? I've never seen a team make it so difficult to run out the clock with under a minute go and the lead. Manuel got drilled each time.

They would have left Baltimore like 10 seconds if they just knelt straight up. They were trying to milk it so the 4th down would be the last play.

[BillsFever21]

They would have left Baltimore like 10 seconds if they just knelt straight up. They were trying to milk it so the 4th down would be the last play.

Obviously but it was still pretty bad when your QB is getting creamed each time he kneels down. I was just waiting for him to stay down with an injury.

[tomz]

Obviously but it was still pretty bad when your QB is getting creamed each time he kneels down. I was just waiting for him to stay down with an injury.

Exactly. Usually there are blockers surrounding the QB in the 'victory formation.' Upshaw and then Suggs just teed off around the edge. They were laughing about it too. Cheap stuff but made possible by a lack of discipline in the formation.

[BillsFever21]

Exactly. Usually there are blockers surrounding the QB in the 'victory formation.' Upshaw and then Suggs just teed off around the edge. They were laughing about it too. Cheap stuff but made possible by a lack of discipline in the formation.

It was kind of cheap by them but it was legal except for Suggs having a late hit on the last one. If the Bills weren't going to block and EJ still wasn't down yet then they still have the power to hit him. They could've gotten lucky and made him fumble which would've given them a chance to tie or win the game. It was definitely an odd sequence. You can tell the coaches and the players aren't used to it.

[Fixxxer]

I really wouldn't mind seeing a QB coach added to the coaching roster. I can't imagine the young Hackett has the time to game plan and provide EJ with the proper insight to better himself. Hackett himself is new to this level of play. Bring in a QB coach that has the time to help EJ.

Maybe he already has one, I think this is the guy that talks to him before series on the sidelines, I really don't know much about the guy.


COACHING EXPERIENCE
Jason Vrable will enter his first year in the NFL with the Buffalo Bills in 2013 as an offensive quality control coach. Prior to coming to Buffalo, Vrable spent the past two seasons at the University of Charleston (WV), as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach.

In 2012, University of Charleston finished 9-2 overall and ranked 25th in country (AFCA coaches poll), the first time in school history that UC football finished in Top 25. The UC offense led their conference in total offense (392.4 avg/g) and rushing offense (246.1 avg/g). The team set numerous school records including, rushing yards in game (454), rushing yards in season (2,910), points scored in half (48) and longest passing touchdown (99 yards). Vrable coached two-time All American Jordan Roberts who set the all-time Division II rushing record for yards in quarter (190) and yards in half (273) in his final game at UC in 2012.
http://www.buffalobills.com/team/coaches/vrable_jason/abdf066a-b129-4f7f-a798-873850e5443e

I liked what I see so far from him. He's obviously a work in progress and I hope we ditch the hurry-up offense as the base offense, just for the time being, at least. I have not problem if we use it as the two minute offense, but otherwise it puts too much pressure on him and the defense. Until he hones the fundamentals I would like to see an offense like we saw last Sunday, running the ball and taking advantage of PA.

I think his demeanor will be instrumental in his development and hopefully he will become the franchise QB we desperately need.

[RedEyE]

Maybe he already has one, I think this is the guy that talks to him before series on the sidelines, I really don't know much about the guy.


http://www.buffalobills.com/team/coaches/vrable_jason/abdf066a-b129-4f7f-a798-873850e5443e

I liked what I see so far from him. He's obviously a work in progress and I hope we ditch the hurry-up offense as the base offense, just for the time being, at least. I have not problem if we use it as the two minute offense, but otherwise it puts too much pressure on him and the defense. Until he hones the fundamentals I would like to see an offense like we saw last Sunday, running the ball and taking advantage of PA.

I think his demeanor will be instrumental in his development and hopefully he will become the franchise QB we desperately need.

I appreciate the research and comments but I don't think this guy adds too entirely much input to the way EJ is playing or needs to adjust. As I understand it a OQCC is typically a young guy learning the business and the position sometimes is based on an internship. They tend to study and stack film weeks in advance for the OC and the HC, sometimes running the scout team. He's basically a glorified admin looking to learn the business and trying to make a name for himself.

If you have seen him on the sideline talking with the QB, he could be relaying information to EJ from Hackett, but I really doubt he is providing any real coaching input.

[chris66]

Now that there is 4 games worth of tape. it will be interesting to see how EJ adjusts.That's ultimately going to decide how far he will go in this league.

Fitz always had good stats and games during the first month of the season