Rookie mistakes

[WagonCircler]

God knows, we have seen plenty of non-starter starters playing for the Bills since #12 hung 'em up. And typically, we've seen plenty of rookie mistakes.

Those include holding onto the ball for too long (the most common, I think), throwing into double coverage or being fooled by schemes designed to confuse novices. Fumbling, etc.

But the inaccuracy we've seen in EJ is far scarier than any of those, and it may be incurable. He was abysmal again in that department last night, and his second most glaring flaw was again on full display--his complete lack of touch on short passes. He throws Nolan Ryan fastballs to receivers on 5 yard slant routes.

Other than the last drive against Carolina and a few nice throws, he has been awful, and not in ways that rookie QBs are normally awful.

These problems are mental and fundamental, and I'm really beginning to think they're not fixable.

[mayotm]

I can't decide which I enjoy more. The overreactions the day after a win or the overreactions the day after a loss.

[Pinkerton Security]

God knows, we have seen plenty of non-starter starters playing for the Bills since #12 hung 'em up. And typically, we've seen plenty of rookie mistakes.

Those include holding onto the ball for too long (the most common, I think), throwing into double coverage or being fooled by schemes designed to confuse novices. Fumbling, etc.

But the inaccuracy we've seen in EJ is far scarier than any of those, and it may be incurable. He was abysmal again in that department last night, and his second most glaring flaw was again on full display--his complete lack of touch on short passes. He throws Nolan Ryan fastballs to receivers on 5 yard slant routes.

Other than the last drive against Carolina and a few nice throws, he has been awful, and not in ways that rookie QBs are normally awful.

These problems are mental and fundamental, and I'm really beginning to think they're not fixable.

Disagree, he threw some pretty accurate balls in the first half last night. Granted he was inconsistent but he showed flashes. Still a ways to go.

[WagonCircler]

I can't decide which I enjoy more. The overreactions the day after a win or the overreactions the day after a loss.

My observations are based on wins and losses.

And the "accurate balls" he did throw are everyday, run of the mill throws that are nothing to be proud of.

Pimping those throws is like the guy in the Chris Rock routine who brags about taking care of his kids. "You're supposed to take care of your kids, ya' dumb muthaf...."

[mayotm]

My observations are based on wins and losses.

And the "accurate balls" he did throw are everyday, run of the mill throws that are nothing to be proud of.

Pimping those throws is like the guy in the Chris Rock routine who brags about taking care of his kids. "You're supposed to take care of your kids, ya' dumb muthaf...."I stand by my original statement.

[Mr. Pink]

Manuel has two huge issues that affect his passing...

His footwork and touch...both are horrible.

Unfortunately with the injury he can't work on either of them for a while.

[Crisis]

EJ's footwork is a mess. Put some pressure on him and he rushes his throws without setting his feet, most of his problems come from that.

[Night Train]

EJ's footwork is a mess. Put some pressure on him and he rushes his throws without setting his feet, most of his problems come from that.

Agreed but I do see upside. Still, he is raw as hell and needs a coach to tell him this is the NFL and you run out of bounds.

[WagonCircler]

Anyone remember Jim Kelly's first game? He looked like a 10 year veteran. Granted, he played in the USFL, but that's not the NFL.

His mechanics were impeccable.

This is not the time to be learning how to set your feet and throw. This is the time to be learning how to read and beat Defenses and to make subtle adjustments to throws depending on the situation.

[imbondz]

it's his footwork. you can almost tell when he's going to throw a good ball by how is feet are set. when they're jacked up, usually his throws are too.

[imbondz]

Anyone remember Jim Kelly's first game? He looked like a 10 year veteran. Granted, he played in the USFL, but that's not the NFL.

His mechanics were impeccable.

This is not the time to be learning how to set your feet and throw. This is the time to be learning how to read and beat Defenses and to make subtle adjustments to throws depending on the situation.

you cannot compare Jim Kelly's first NFL start w/ a rookie. not even close to the same thing. Kelly had a ton of confidence coming into the league because of his USFL days.

[lightningbolt444]

Anyone remember Jim Kelly's first game? He looked like a 10 year veteran. Granted, he played in the USFL, but that's not the NFL.

His mechanics were impeccable.

This is not the time to be learning how to set your feet and throw. This is the time to be learning how to read and beat Defenses and to make subtle adjustments to throws depending on the situation.

Bills fans need to stop living in the past. No need to compare EVERY player now to someone from the early 90's. Also news flash they were not good enough then to win it all either sure they got to four and that is a great accomplishment but they still do not have a ring.

[JoeMama]

Anyone remember Jim Kelly's first game? He looked like a 10 year veteran. Granted, he played in the USFL, but that's not the NFL.

His mechanics were impeccable.

This is not the time to be learning how to set your feet and throw. This is the time to be learning how to read and beat Defenses and to make subtle adjustments to throws depending on the situation.

Looking back, we were spoiled rotten to have a guy like Jim Kelly at the helm for 10+ years.

By the mid 90s, I just took good QB play for granted. It was just a given.

What's it been since his retirement? 17 years? Our laundry list of false saviors over that span is so depressing.

[Mace]

I'm not going Suzy Sunshine here but I think it's way too early to figure nothing is fixable. New rookie QB on a new team with a new staff, new coaches, new schemes is having undisciplined moments, mechanics issues, chemistry issues, injury depleted, after 4 games.....besides the random luck of injuries most of those things are way fixable and subject to familiarity.

Manuel was projected as a raw talent, and he's well, a raw talent in new systems. I figured at this point we'd still be middling through some frustrating Kolb in new systems.

Maybe I'm way wrong, it's not uncommon, but I think they are sort of looking like a team that might settle into a formidable proficiency.

I said the same about the early Gailey years, but they did too. They looked happy and hungry.....but lacked the fierce Pettine brought along on the other side of the ball. The defense looks like it is learning "fierce".

Don't get too upset though, last 5 games will tell you more about next year than the first 4, and you have to admit the first 4 have not been so miserable for having their moments.

[WagonCircler]

Bills fans need to stop living in the past. No need to compare EVERY player now to someone from the early 90's. .

So...we should use Trent ****** Edwards as a yardstick?

The fact is, the Kelly era was the last time the Bills weren't absolutely pathetic. And the players then were absolutely good enough to win it all. They were just coached by a professor and his cronies.

[WagonCircler]

you cannot compare Jim Kelly's first NFL start w/ a rookie. not even close to the same thing. Kelly had a ton of confidence coming into the league because of his USFL days.

Jim Kelly had a ton of confidence in the third grade. It's just who he is.

And if we have to wait for a first round QB to acquire confidence, then we have the wrong guy. Furthermore, my comment wasn't about confidence, it was about EJs piss poor mechanics as compared to Kelly's perfect mechanics.

[Don't Panic]

So...we should use Trent ****** Edwards as a yardstick?

Because that's the only option? Come on dude... it's obvious you've already made up your mind that there is no hope for the guy, but the truth is he won 2 out of 4 games so far and that's against decent competition. The way I look at it, if we can fix the footwork issue and even get a little more accurate, he'll be more than good enough to lead us where we want to go. This thing has to play itself out, though. I simply cannot understand anyone coming to a conclusion at this point in time.

[WagonCircler]

Because that's the only option? Come on dude... it's obvious you've already made up your mind that there is no hope for the guy, but the truth is he won 2 out of 4 games so far and that's against decent competition. The way I look at it, if we can fix the footwork issue and even get a little more accurate, he'll be more than good enough to lead us where we want to go. This thing has to play itself out, though. I simply cannot understand anyone coming to a conclusion at this point in time.

No, I detested Trent Edwards and openly rooted for him to fail. The sooner that guy was out of here, the better.

I'm totally rooting for EJ, but I've seen 3 of his 4 games in person, and he's been terrible 85% of the time, passable 10% of the time and not bad 5% of the time.

And "he" didn't win those two games. That was the Defense.

He needs to get a hell of a lot more that "a little more accurate." He's been atrocious in that department.

I'm not closing the book on him, but he's really starting to make me think he's not the guy. Horribly inaccurate, not careful with the ball, and he just made a really bad decision that may cost him up to 10 games.

I'm underwhelmed, so far.

[Jry44]

Anyone remember Jim Kelly's first game? He looked like a 10 year veteran. Granted, he played in the USFL, but that's not the NFL.

His mechanics were impeccable.

This is not the time to be learning how to set your feet and throw. This is the time to be learning how to read and beat Defenses and to make subtle adjustments to throws depending on the situation.

Peyton Manning threw 3 interceptions in his first game. Since we're comparing rookies to hall of famers first games...EJ must already be on the fast track by this logic. Let's be realistic. Give the kid some time to develop before we start casting him off!

Peyton Manning also threw 2 more interceptions than td's in his rookie year.My point? You're ALWAYS going to experience growing pains with any rookie QB. To expect all of them them to come out and have flawless mechanics is completely unrealistic.