This team blows

[OpIv37]

1 goal in two games.

Ennis still channels Afinogenov and tries to skate through 3 guys, and it's starting to rub off on Flynn and Porter. Ehroff looks a little confused out there. The PP is beyond pathetic. And Vanek is already in a slump- he generated a lot of chances, but as usual couldn't finish, and was visibly frustrated.

The only two good things so far: Miller and the perfect PK.

We are right back in the same situation as last year: the only way we win is if Vanek gets 3 points AND Miller stands on his head.

And I knw the excuse will come: Detroit's a great team, Anderson played really well... But gues what? Those two teams are in our div so we are going to keep having to play them, and they aren't the only good teams/good goalies on the schedule.

At least Darcy saved me $159 on Center Ice cuz this team isn't worth my money.

[JATMtheJATM]

its a rebuild year. what exactly were you expecting?

[Crisis]

Of course we're back in the same situation as last year... it's the same team with the addition of what 3 or 4 teenagers?

[Crisis]

what IS disappointing is that the vets (other than miller) are the ones letting the youngsters down. girgs/grigs/risto have all looked great to above average and i love larsson despite him not getting much icetime for some reason.

ehroff had one or two bad shifts on the powerplay but he ate 27 minutes tonight and was generally solid since he had to step in to hank's minutes as well

coho was invisible and ennis was awful

[Crisis]

can we talk about how amazing girgensons is? future captain easily.

[JATMtheJATM]

girgs, i keep thinking of him as a rod brind amour player. shut down forward who works hard and has some good offensive upside. they also work their asses off off the ice as well.

[SabreEleven]

Darcy did warn you there was going be suffering.

[OpIv37]

its a rebuild year. what exactly were you expecting?

First, if it's a rebuild, why are Vanek and Miller still here? It wreaks of the same half-assed rebuild they attempted when Briere and Drury left.

Second, regarding expectations:

I expected more than one goal in two games.

Vanek has had 7 or 8 good scoring chances- I don't expect him to bury every one cuz that's not how hockey works, but I do expect more than zero.

I don't expect the struggling PP to suddenly be perfect, but I do expect better than 0-3 on 5 on 3's and I do expect them to NOT give up breakaways that result in penalty shots while a man up.

I don't expect 5 goals a game, but I do expect the team to be able to establish the zone and put pressure on.

I expect guys like Ennis to be smart enough to not try to skate through 3 guys, esp on the PP.

I expect Hogson to be more than invisible, which is what he's been so far.

How's that?

[Homegrown]

its a rebuild year. what exactly were you expecting?
a new GM, that was what I expected ....not retaining the same one who creates this pile of ****

[JATMtheJATM]

remember 03-04? year 2 of that rebuild? they got shut out through the first 2 games. the first half was slow. the second half it all started coming together. i expect something like that this year. vanek and miller will likely be gone by the deadline, but you cant just trade them to make a trade. its a young team. this is to be expected.

[OpIv37]

Vanek and miller better be locked up or gone at the trade deadline because what this team really can't afford to do is lose two stars for nothing yet again.

The only justification I can see for keeping them is to see if any of these guys come through and the team becomes capable of making a run. If that happens, then maybe miller and/or Vanek will want to stay and we can make a run this year and lock them up. If this is a bubble team or a basement team (which is what they are as of right now) both better get moved.

[JATMtheJATM]

Vanek and miller better be locked up or gone at the trade deadline because what this team really can't afford to do is lose two stars for nothing yet again.

The only justification I can see for keeping them is to see if any of these guys come through and the team becomes capable of making a run. If that happens, then maybe miller and/or Vanek will want to stay and we can make a run this year and lock them up. If this is a bubble team or a basement team (which is what they are as of right now) both better get moved.

i think youll see them moved, especially if miller keeps up his good play (he cant keep up his play to this extent, but if hes good, teams will want him)

[Typ0]

I watched the first two games the team is very disappointing. Yes, the youth looks good but only because they are on such a bad team. Miller is going to play lights out because he wants the hell out of here why would he want to be on this minor league team?

[JATMtheJATM]

patience. its a rebuild.

[OpIv37]

patience. its a rebuild.

Bull****.

Like I already said, I don't expect them to be perfect but I do expect more than 1 goal every 4.5 periods. I do expect them to occasionally get multiple goals in the same game. I do expect them to at least establish the zone on the PP and not give up scoring chances on the PP.

It's one thing to be rebuilding. It's another thing to be completely incompetent.

[JATMtheJATM]

Bull****.

Like I already said, I don't expect them to be perfect but I do expect more than 1 goal every 4.5 periods. I do expect them to occasionally get multiple goals in the same game. I do expect them to at least establish the zone on the PP and not give up scoring chances on the PP.

It's one thing to be rebuilding. It's another thing to be completely incompetent.

and they will. 3 games does not make a season. its a bad team, and theyve struggled. theyll score goals, theyll pick up the powerplay, theyll be fine.

patience, grasshopper. this team has a ton of young talent. itll pick up. hopefully foligno gets healthy and he helps.

but i promise, this team is heading in the right direction, personnel wise. its gonna be a long first half of the season. start looking at next years draft class and our prospects not yet signed. itll help and show an eye toward the season.

[trapezeus]

it's not that its just a slow start, they are not even in the same league as the teams that will be in the playoffs. that's the problem.these guys are essentially what darcy loves, a team aspiring to get to the first round and then hope there is a magical run to be better.

[PTI]

I don't believe in patience for rebuilds, there is a salary cap and a draft that are in place for a reason, to help bad teams have periodic rises. They cannot actually be this bad.

[JATMtheJATM]

most players are 4 to 5 years away from being NHL regulars when they are drafted. miller was 7 years. the sabres have alot of talent waiting in the wings. theyll get more this draft. but if you think players who are drafted and can step in and produce are a dime a dozen, then i dont know what to say. they are going to be bad this year. and probably most of next year. but with that dismal play comes developing players and more high draft picks.

its not pretty, but people wanted to blow the team up and start from scratch. well, here we are.

[JATMtheJATM]

it's not that its just a slow start, they are not even in the same league as the teams that will be in the playoffs. that's the problem.these guys are essentially what darcy loves, a team aspiring to get to the first round and then hope there is a magical run to be better.

and darcy is absolutely part of the problem in many ways. but remember, hes also built good teams from nothing for the sabres. hes a good GM in many ways. just way too patient and over values his players at times. double edged sword.

[sukie]

In the world of "What have you done for me lately" , When was the last good team built by Darcy?

[JATMtheJATM]

In the world of "What have you done for me lately" , When was the last good team built by Darcy?

09-10.

[OpIv37]

most players are 4 to 5 years away from being NHL regulars when they are drafted. miller was 7 years. the sabres have alot of talent waiting in the wings. theyll get more this draft. but if you think players who are drafted and can step in and produce are a dime a dozen, then i dont know what to say. they are going to be bad this year. and probably most of next year. but with that dismal play comes developing players and more high draft picks.

its not pretty, but people wanted to blow the team up and start from scratch. well, here we are.

Um, we didn't blow the team up. Leino, Stafford, Ennis, Vanek and miller are all still here, and those first three are definitely part of the problem.

And second, "rebuilding" is letting Darcy off the hook. I could live with rebuilding if we had a good run, but we haven't made the playoffs in two straight seasons (soon to be 3) and haven't made it out of the first round in 6 years. Yiou have to build before you can rebuild and Darcy never did that..

[JATMtheJATM]

Um, we didn't blow the team up. Leino, Stafford, Ennis, Vanek and miller are all still here, and those first three are definitely part of the problem.

And second, "rebuilding" is letting Darcy off the hook. I could live with rebuilding if we had a good run, but we haven't made the playoffs in two straight seasons (soon to be 3) and haven't made it out of the first round in 6 years. Yiou have to build before you can rebuild and Darcy never did that..

ennis is what? 23? hes not part of the old core. hes actually an older part of the rebuild, though it wasnt a rebuild at the time he was drafted. this isnt NHL 14 where you can trade anyone at any time. no one wants stafford and his contract. hes not going anywhere. leino hasnt been a problem, he just hasnt been healthy. the sabres have all but blown up the roster with vanek and miller next to go.

[sukie]

09-10.


And since then when the handcuffs were removed and the checkbook was given over? Maybe they need Raffi Torres back.

What makes this a rebuild year? What is being rebuilt? Drafting guys is a rebuild? Or is rebuild a snazzy way to say "we will suck"?

[JATMtheJATM]

And since then when the handcuffs were removed and the checkbook was given over? Maybe they need Raffi Torres back.

What makes this a rebuild year? What is being rebuilt? Drafting guys is a rebuild? Or is rebuild a snazzy way to say "we will suck"?

you are kidding, right? what makes this a rebuild? all the trades for draft picks and prospects and other young players?

[sukie]

Haven't we been rebuilding since the 100 pts in 09-10 yielded crap ever since? You say draf picks are a rebuild... I see it as a successful draft if you get bonafied good players out of it. Everyone drafts and many trade for draft picks... So what.

[OpIv37]

Leino has been a problem- he's been useless when healthy and was benched last year.

Ennis is a huge part of the problem. This is his fourth year in the league and he still hasn't figured out that he can't stick-handle through three NHL players.

As far as trades, well, first, they'd be easier to trade if Darcy didn't give them such ****ty contracts, and second, either Stafford or Leino should have been a compliance buyout.

[JATMtheJATM]

Leino has been a problem- he's been useless when healthy and was benched last year.

Ennis is a huge part of the problem. This is his fourth year in the league and he still hasn't figured out that he can't stick-handle through three NHL players.

As far as trades, well, first, they'd be easier to trade if Darcy didn't give them such ****ty contracts, and second, either Stafford or Leino should have been a compliance buyout.

leino wasnt benched last year, he had .75 PPG in his injury shortened season.

as far stafford being a buy out, i dont disagree.

[JATMtheJATM]

Haven't we been rebuilding since the 100 pts in 09-10 yielded crap ever since? You say draf picks are a rebuild... I see it as a successful draft if you get bonafied good players out of it. Everyone drafts and many trade for draft picks... So what.

i understand you like being difficult for the sake of being difficult, but honestly, you know the difference.

chicago went through a rebuild. pittsburg went through a rebuild. the islanders went through a rebuild. the sabres are moving older players for picks and prospects. its a rebuild.

- - - Updated - - -


Haven't we been rebuilding since the 100 pts in 09-10 yielded crap ever since? You say draf picks are a rebuild... I see it as a successful draft if you get bonafied good players out of it. Everyone drafts and many trade for draft picks... So what.

i understand you like being difficult for the sake of being difficult, but honestly, you know the difference.

chicago went through a rebuild. pittsburg went through a rebuild. the islanders went through a rebuild. the sabres are moving older players for picks and prospects. its a rebuild.

[sukie]

I also understand that the WNY hockey fan base sits in the we are only a couple of pieces away mind set for 2-3 years too long.

[sukie]

i understand you like being difficult for the sake of being difficult, but honestly, you know the difference.

chicago went through a rebuild. pittsburg went through a rebuild. the islanders went through a rebuild. the sabres are moving older players for picks and prospects. its a rebuild.

- - - Updated - - -
.


When exactly was Pittsburgh's rebuild? or Chicago's? Is Columbus' rebuild new or ongoing or do they perpetually blow? How about Florida? Still bebuilding or jusst tweeking?

[PTI]

I really thought Ennis would be at least as productive as a younger Derek Roy was. He has regressed a bit. I think he needs to be on Vanek's line.

[JATMtheJATM]

When exactly was Pittsburgh's rebuild? or Chicago's? Is Columbus' rebuild new or ongoing or do they perpetually blow? How about Florida? Still bebuilding or jusst tweeking?

when was pittsburgs? 01-02 to 05-06
chicagos? 05-06 to 07-08
columbus should be done rebuilding, they have a good team there.
florida is in the middle of theres.

the difference between florida and columbus over those others is florida and columbus have missed on some of their picks, and those they did get right, the players didnt want to stay.

[sukie]

Florida and Columbus didn't benefit from a Sidney Crosby or a Patrick Kane draft either which was the end of both Pittsburgh's and Chicago's "rebuild".

So teams that get to select 1 or maybe 2 in the draft end thier rebuild. Teams that don't stay perpetually rebuilding. I suspect, could be wrong, that there is more to being a GM than selecting draft picks and trading away players for draft picks. Now if you can combine mega #s of draft picks into a #1 or #2 selection...

[JATMtheJATM]

Florida and Columbus didn't benefit from a Sidney Crosby or a Patrick Kane draft either which was the end of both Pittsburgh's and Chicago's "rebuild".

So teams that get to select 1 or maybe 2 in the draft end thier rebuild. Teams that don't stay perpetually rebuilding. I suspect, could be wrong, that there is more to being a GM than selecting draft picks and trading away players for draft picks. Now if you can combine mega #s of draft picks into a #1 or #2 selection...

you dont need a crosby and kane isnt really a generational superstar. a player like him comes along almost every draft.

the sabres had 2 first rounders last year and 3 2nd rounders. in a deep draft, and many nhl scouts and experts feel they had the best draft in the NHL.

its possible the sabres miss on those picks. but if the sabres get a top 5 draft this season, and more first from potential miller or vanek trades, its more pieces of the puzzle.

[sukie]

Vanek Miller trades... THAT would be a ballsy GM move. Until now it seems Darcy is like the fat kid that takes a bite of a bologna sandwich and explaims... "Uh This sucks!" then adds "Anyone want it?" handing the rancid tasting sandwich to the other kids (GMs) Hoping for a "bite".

[JATMtheJATM]

Vanek Miller trades... THAT would be a ballsy GM move. Until now it seems Darcy is like the fat kid that takes a bite of a bologna sandwich and explaims... "Uh This sucks!" then adds "Anyone want it?" handing the rancid tasting sandwich to the other kids (GMs) Hoping for a "bite".

either he trades them, or they walk.

[gebobs]

Darcy did warn you there was going be suffering.
That's like warning people in New Orleans a week after Katrina that it's going to be wet.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Guys this team blows. No reason to argue with each other.

[JATMtheJATM]

indeed it does. however, i believe people need be patient. young team undergoing a massive rebuild. its going to take a while and its going to be painful sometimes. the offense will perk up, but dont expect 4 goals a game. 2.5 seems optimistic.

[trapezeus]

what i don't get is why in Buffalo supremely sucking for periods no other city would endure do we keep the architects of the crappiness. Brandon with the Bills and Darcy with the Sabres. There is more than enough of a body of work to show that they haven't gotten it done. So much so, no other team is going tohire them. but in buffalo, we've not only kept them...we've extended them. and we've given them more responsibility.

We are in the dark ages with our sports. it's one thing to need some time in the rebuild, but the quality of hockey displayed thus far is barely NHL quality. it just looks like an amalgamation of players who haven't ever played together. they need to get some chemistry and learn a break out stat.

[JATMtheJATM]

im patient, but they gotta get more then 3 shots in a period.

[coastal]

This is the bottom.

[JATMtheJATM]

the positive being the sabres have a lot of young pieces.

i think the sabres are going to be AWFUL the first half of the season. second half they will perk up and be more competitive. the kids will grow.

plus, the sabres will have a DAMN high pick next year. so many positives on the horizon.

[JATMtheJATM]

1-1. hodgson with a PP goal.

[JATMtheJATM]

not bad through 2.

[OpIv37]

First period was awful. 2nd period was the best hockey they've played all season outside of about 5 seconds leading to that goal.

I can't believe the pp scored twice in a period. Still, 2-16 is nothing to be impressed with.

[Skooby]

Pig Vomit, we need more.... http://www.geeksofdoom.com/GoD/img/2011/02/2011-02-06-mcbain.jpg (http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2011/02/06/watch-now-mcbain-clips-from-the-simpsons-form-short-movie)

[gebobs]

0-82

Bring it!

On the last day possible, yesterday, cancelled Center Ice. I watched the first two games but couldn't even be bothered with the third.

This is the worst team to ever wear the colors. Vanek is this team's Ruuttu. None of the talent coming up is very impressive. Girgensons, perhaps the most hopeful, will be an adequate second-liner. Grigorenko sucks. Armia will be out of the league within two years.

Ennis blows. Foligno blows. Hodgson blows. Myers blows.

For crap sake, that piece of excrement Jamie McBain has one quarter of our goals through four games.

Where's the rebuild? I don't think any contending team would want any of this lot.

[OpIv37]

0-82

Bring it!

Technically 0-81-1

[JATMtheJATM]

Armia will be out of the league in two years? What?

[gebobs]

Armia will be out of the league in two years? What?
I'm venting.

But it seems to me that Armia might be a reach. In true Sabres fashion, he'll probably pan out as another Brad May. The Sabres have built from the ground up through the draft, but none of them impress me much.

Looking at the Sabres draft history over the years is truly depressing. The first few years were incredible. Perreault, Martin, Ramsay, Schoenfeld. All high picks, for sure, Ramsey being the latest at 19. But they were all 100% spot on.

And then it got kinda dicey starting in '73 with ol' Morris Titanic. In '77 they got Ric Seiling...decent career but not quite as decent as the guy drafted right behind him, Mike Bossy. In the second round, the Islanders upped the ante taking John Tonelli right after we took Ron Areshenkof. I know, who the eff is Ron Areshenkof?

Jiri Dudacek, Mikael Andersson, Norm Lacombe, Paul Cyr, Shawn Anderson, Joel Savage, David Cooper, Denis Tsygurov, Wayne Primeau, Erik Rasmussen, Mika Noronen, Barrett Heisten, Artem Kryukov, Jiri Novotny, Marek Zagrapan, Dennis Persson...there's a short list of first round futility. Heck, they took Andrew Peters 34th overall.

I'm not real confident about Sabres draft picks or how they develop them. They do fine in the AHL, even excel there at times. But they never translate to NHL elite. Vanek, Campbell, Pomminville and Miller are up around there maybe. Roy, Mckee had their moments. After that, what do they have to show for the drafts since '90. Not a whole lot.

[PTI]

0-82

Bring it!

On the last day possible, yesterday, cancelled Center Ice. I watched the first two games but couldn't even be bothered with the third.

This is the worst team to ever wear the colors. Vanek is this team's Ruuttu. None of the talent coming up is very impressive. Girgensons, perhaps the most hopeful, will be an adequate second-liner. Grigorenko sucks. Armia will be out of the league within two years.

Ennis blows. Foligno blows. Hodgson blows. Myers blows.

For crap sake, that piece of excrement Jamie McBain has one quarter of our goals through four games.

Where's the rebuild? I don't think any contending team would want any of this lot.

Was yesterday the last day to cancel?

RATS! I would if today was the day.

[sukie]

0-82

Bring it!

On the last day possible, yesterday, cancelled Center Ice. I watched the first two games but couldn't even be bothered with the third.

This is the worst team to ever wear the colors. Vanek is this team's Ruuttu. None of the talent coming up is very impressive. Girgensons, perhaps the most hopeful, will be an adequate second-liner. Grigorenko sucks. Armia will be out of the league within two years.

Ennis blows. Foligno blows. Hodgson blows. Myers blows.

For crap sake, that piece of excrement Jamie McBain has one quarter of our goals through four games.

Where's the rebuild? I don't think any contending team would want any of this lot.

Thanks for depressing me with the post on 1st round picks ... Yikes!

Anyway. All this talk of rebuild... Bullcrap

Any build needs a foundation. What is that foundation? Vanek and Miller won't be here for a build to be completed... Who is that foundation?

If you cannot answer in a nanosecond and still believe this is a rebuild... Think again. Seriously.

[OpIv37]

I called to cancel on Sun and Directv told me the 8th- yesterday- was the last day to cancel.

FYI Center Ice is free until the 19th, if any of you can still hack the punishment. If were lucky we might get to see one whole win before the preview ends.

[PTI]

Guess I will be watching until my eyes bleed a little then. Something to do while I fold clothes I guess.

[OpIv37]

Guess I will be watching until my eyes bleed a little then. Something to do while I fold clothes I guess.
Can you set up a live stream? Watching someone I don't know fold clothes is more exciting than watching this team.

[Skooby]

I called to cancel on Sun and Directv told me the 8th- yesterday- was the last day to cancel.

FYI Center Ice is free until the 19th, if any of you can still hack the punishment. If were lucky we might get to see one whole win before the preview ends. Most Sabres fans eyes will be burned out if they watch past the 19th.

[JATMtheJATM]

Thanks for depressing me with the post on 1st round picks ... Yikes!

Anyway. All this talk of rebuild... Bullcrap

Any build needs a foundation. What is that foundation? Vanek and Miller won't be here for a build to be completed... Who is that foundation?

If you cannot answer in a nanosecond and still believe this is a rebuild... Think again. Seriously.

i dont really think you know what you are talking about, or have a clue how a team rebuilding works.

this team has plenty of foundational pieces. risto, girgs, grigs, hodgson, pysyk. and plenty of pieces to add to the core of the rebuild. armia, zadarov, larsson, and lots of prospects that could become very good hockey players when developed.

this is exactly what the rebuild is. and its exactly how successful teams rebuilt.

ive never seen such a confused group of hockey fans. fans who wanted the team blown up and rebuilt because it wasnt good enough, and when that finally happens, and the sabres get young talent waiting to be developed, now they cry that this isnt working?

what the hell do you want? we wanted an overhaul of the roster. we wanted a rebuild. we are getting it, and people are crying about the level of play that a bunch of young kids are playing at? where is the logic in that?

- - - Updated - - -


Thanks for depressing me with the post on 1st round picks ... Yikes!

Anyway. All this talk of rebuild... Bullcrap

Any build needs a foundation. What is that foundation? Vanek and Miller won't be here for a build to be completed... Who is that foundation?

If you cannot answer in a nanosecond and still believe this is a rebuild... Think again. Seriously.

i dont really think you know what you are talking about, or have a clue how a team rebuilding works.

this team has plenty of foundational pieces. risto, girgs, grigs, hodgson, pysyk. and plenty of pieces to add to the core of the rebuild. armia, zadarov, larsson, and lots of prospects that could become very good hockey players when developed.

this is exactly what the rebuild is. and its exactly how successful teams rebuilt.

ive never seen such a confused group of hockey fans. fans who wanted the team blown up and rebuilt because it wasnt good enough, and when that finally happens, and the sabres get young talent waiting to be developed, now they cry that this isnt working?

what the hell do you want? we wanted an overhaul of the roster. we wanted a rebuild. we are getting it, and people are crying about the level of play that a bunch of young kids are playing at? where is the logic in that?

[OpIv37]

We've been over this.

How is it "blown up" when Vanek, Miller, Stafford, Ennis and Leino are still here? How is it "blown up" when we bring back Tallinder?

How is the same guy who hasn't been able to get it right for 16 years supposed to rebuild right this time?

And finally, even if we are rebuilding, that shouldn't mean "completely incompetent."

Forge about scoring goals- this team can't even complete a pass. Guys are heading up ice not even looking for the luck when it's passed to them. They never seem to even be aware of where their teammates are. Really basic, basic stuff. They don't even look like they belong on the ice with other NHL teams. Rebuilding teams struggle, but what we are seeing isn't simply struggling. It's utter incompetence.

[JATMtheJATM]

We've been over this.

How is it "blown up" when Vanek, Miller, Stafford, Ennis and Leino are still here? How is it "blown up" when we bring back Tallinder?

How is the same guy who hasn't been able to get it right for 16 years supposed to rebuild right this time?

And finally, even if we are rebuilding, that shouldn't mean "completely incompetent."

Forge about scoring goals- this team can't even complete a pass. Guys are heading up ice not even looking for the luck when it's passed to them. They never seem to even be aware of where their teammates are. Really basic, basic stuff. They don't even look like they belong on the ice with other NHL teams. Rebuilding teams struggle, but what we are seeing isn't simply struggling. It's utter incompetence.

weve also been over this. miller and vanek are still here because regier hasnt been offered value back for them. stafford and leino are untradable. why buy them out? why bring in tallinder? because they needed stability in the back end with a vet presence, and he came remarkably cheap. you cant field a team of kids and expect it to work out. some leadership needs to stay. like the penguins getting leclaire for crosby.

and if you think the sabres are utter incompetence, i have to ask if you watched the penguins a decade ago. or the blackhawks. rebuilding teams look like this. and it worked for those teams. but for a while, this is what they looked like. and in the case of the pens, for 3 years before it all turned around (4 including the lockout)

i get it. this team is bad. but this is how its supposed to be. this was the plan from the start. a bad team, and probably a bad team again next year.

and why do we want ennis gone again? hes young, cheap, and produces decently. i dunno why the sabres should trade him, unless its part of a bigger package.

[JATMtheJATM]

i do, however, believe regier should be gone, and i do disagree with the sabres handling of prospects. they seem to bring them too fast, and it stunts their growth. grigs should be in the QMJHL but hes centering the 4th line? no.

[gebobs]

Look at the bright side. They will be well positioned to add to that core of young talent. Darcy will of course select tiny William Nylander who will be the next Derek Roy. OK...he's not that small, but he's built like a featherweight.

[JATMtheJATM]

Look at the bright side. They will be well positioned to add to that core of young talent. Darcy will of course select tiny William Nylander who will be the next Derek Roy. OK...he's not that small, but he's built like a featherweight.

the sabres should be able to draft top end talent this draft. elite talent. hopefully, its a franchise player to go along with risto as a potential franchise D.

as for myers, im beginning to think even i cant support this crap anymore.

[JATMtheJATM]

Look at the bright side. They will be well positioned to add to that core of young talent. Darcy will of course select tiny William Nylander who will be the next Derek Roy. OK...he's not that small, but he's built like a featherweight.

but i have to ask, what dont you like about armia? i think he could be an excellent second line scorer. perhaps top line. hockeys future feel we have a very bright future as well.

[gebobs]

but i have to ask, what dont you like about armia? i think he could be an excellent second line scorer. perhaps top line. hockeys future feel we have a very bright future as well.
I would take their opinion over mine for sure. Mine is just a result of my general pessimism of our draft picks especially under Regier.

Frankly, I haven't seen Armia play at all. He did pretty good there. I think Assat Pori won the championship last year. I've been anxiously waiting on him since he was drafted as he finished up in SM-Liiga. He finally gets here and gets injured. It's frustrating.

[PTI]

but i have to ask, what dont you like about armia? i think he could be an excellent second line scorer. perhaps top line. hockeys future feel we have a very bright future as well.

Sounds like a true Buffalo Sabres player, excellent second line scorer playing first as a mediocre scorer!

[JATMtheJATM]

I would take their opinion over mine for sure. Mine is just a result of my general pessimism of our draft picks especially under Regier.

Frankly, I haven't seen Armia play at all. He did pretty good there. I think Assat Pori won the championship last year. I've been anxiously waiting on him since he was drafted as he finished up in SM-Liiga. He finally gets here and gets injured. It's frustrating.

i must correct you though. regier has had the highest percentage of draft picks make the NHL. the problem is they usually dont turn out to be stars. he misses on first round picks, but finds useful players in later rounds.

[Crisis]

i must correct you though. regier has had the highest percentage of draft picks make the NHL. the problem is they usually dont turn out to be stars. he misses on first round picks, but finds useful players in later rounds.

to be fair we've never drafted high enough for the "cant miss superstars." we've had one top 5 pick in how many years? (vanek)

[JATMtheJATM]

thats true. but the sabres have missed on alot.

[gebobs]

i must correct you though. regier has had the highest percentage of draft picks make the NHL. the problem is they usually dont turn out to be stars. he misses on first round picks, but finds useful players in later rounds.
Interesting. What's your source on that?

[JATMtheJATM]

Interesting. What's your source on that?

couldnt tell you, i saw it last year on the range, i believe. there was a thread about it. i remember that. im banned from there now.

[trapezeus]

they are the bottom.

corrected.

[DetDannyWilliams]

Darcy Regier on Hockey Hotline this morning he says that we rebuilding the way the St. Louis Blues did their rebuilding they started their rebuilding in 2004 and it took them until last season to make it back to the Stanley Cup Playoffs. http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/STLBlues/tabid/142/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/8989/Going-Out-With-a-Bang-The-Story-of-the-Blues-Rebuild.aspx

[gebobs]

couldnt tell you, i saw it last year on the range, i believe. there was a thread about it. i remember that. im banned from there now.
Quick and dirty, I looked at Regier (1997-2009) and Lamoriello (1987-2009). Lamoriello averages 4.8 draftees per year that play at least one game in the NHL compared to 4.0 for Regier - 20% more. And those draftees, on average have scored 124 points in the NHL compared to 99 for Buffalo draftees.

Lou has 9 draftees that have scored better than 500 points. Regier has none, though Roy, Pommers and Vanek are close.

[JATMtheJATM]

Quick and dirty, I looked at Regier (1997-2009) and Lamoriello (1987-2009). Lamoriello averages 4.8 draftees per year that play at least one game in the NHL compared to 4.0 for Regier - 20% more. And those draftees, on average have scored 124 points in the NHL compared to 99 for Buffalo draftees.

Lou has 9 draftees that have scored better than 500 points. Regier has none, though Roy, Pommers and Vanek are close.

i think it was since regier became GM and it was in rounds 2 and after. lou was drafting in a smaller league when he came in, so the talent level was higher. not to say anything against lou, hes a GREAT gm and darcy is not.

[JATMtheJATM]

Darcy Regier on Hockey Hotline this morning he says that we rebuilding the way the St. Louis Blues did their rebuilding they started their rebuilding in 2004 and it took them until last season to make it back to the Stanley Cup Playoffs. http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/STLBlues/tabid/142/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/8989/Going-Out-With-a-Bang-The-Story-of-the-Blues-Rebuild.aspx

thought they made it in 09 and 12 too.

[gebobs]

i think it was since regier became GM and it was in rounds 2 and after. lou was drafting in a smaller league when he came in, so the talent level was higher. not to say anything against lou, hes a GREAT gm and darcy is not.
Fair point. If you look at their results over the same period, they look a lot more similar. They both have the same number to play in the league, but Darcy actually has had better results. He has 17 draftees with 100+ points compared to just 7 for Lou.

[SkateZilla]

Wake up.. this is a preview of the future... and it doesnt look good.


They cant score,
They cant clear the zone,
The goalies bail them out when they are in the zone for a close loss or undeserving point, when they arent it's a lopsided loss,

Same **** different Coach, It's been this way since the 90s.

Put a Mediocre team in front of a World Class Goalie, and Ride that Goalie.

If I were Vanek and Miller, I'd tell My Agent to not take any offers from Regier, Period.


The Entire Team is still in training camp mode.

[JATMtheJATM]

Fair point. If you look at their results over the same period, they look a lot more similar. They both have the same number to play in the league, but Darcy actually has had better results. He has 17 draftees with 100+ points compared to just 7 for Lou.

regier has good luck in the drafting department, and good luck in the trade department. problem with the latter is he is too conservative, and i really dont know if he has a plan when building a team. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.

i like the young talent we have. i just hope its someone other then regier assembling the team a few years down the line. or tomorrow. whatever.

[OpIv37]

If Reiger has good luck in drafting and good luck in trading, why has this team sucked for so long?

[JATMtheJATM]

If Reiger has good luck in drafting and good luck in trading, why has this team sucked for so long?

hey man, im just posting facts about drafting, and if you look at some of the talent he brought in via trade, thats evident too. the problem is he is too conservative and over values his own players. i think he becomes attached.

[PTI]

Gerbe has 3 freaking goals in 4 games, is playing on the PP some, and just got the game winner last night, ugh! He is getting a lot of shots on goal too. Not that he would have made a difference here, but go figure.

[black N yellow]

Gerbe has 3 freaking goals in 4 games, is playing on the PP some, and just got the game winner last night, ugh! He is getting a lot of shots on goal too. Not that he would have made a difference here, but go figure.


Yeah, holding on to guys like Stafford is more important around here. Apparently noone in Sabres management understands things like this.

[SkateZilla]

The Players are playing like the season is a throw away season.

No Hustle at all, floating left and right, no one skates back, no one skates / attacks the puck,

over 3/4 of the Goals we've scored were lucky bounces more than anything.

The Entire Team Except maybe Miller, believes that this is a "rebuild year" so they dont even have to try.

Even Vanek is floating, and just looking like he doesnt give a <bleep>.

I Give Miller until after the Olympic Break, afterwards he wont give a poo anymore either.

[Skooby]

The Players are playing like the season is a throw away season.

No Hustle at all, floating left and right, no one skates back, no one skates / attacks the puck,

over 3/4 of the Goals we've scored were lucky bounces more than anything.

The Entire Team Except maybe Miller, believes that this is a "rebuild year" so they dont even have to try.

Even Vanek is floating, and just looking like he doesnt give a <bleep>.

I Give Miller until after the Olympic Break, afterwards he wont give a poo anymore either.
Vanek always looks like he's floating.
</bleep>

[JATMtheJATM]

seeing reports of risto sent down to rochester.

[gebobs]

Just read on last night's recap...not only are the Sabres 0-8, but they haven't even held a lead this season. Not even for a second.

This is going to be painful.

[Skooby]

Just read on last night's recap...not only are the Sabres 0-8, but they haven't even held a lead this season. Not even for a second.

This is going to be painful.

Ouch.

[coastal]

We need the top pick in the draft for two consecutive years... and then we need two centers...

[gebobs]

We need the top pick in the draft for two consecutive years... and then we need two centers...
They warned us it would be painful. We may just get those top picks. That along with some picks for Vanek, Miller, and Stafford and we should have 3 consecutive strong drafts. It sucks starting over, but that's where we are.

[sukie]

when exactly were we warned... wasn't that a year ago? Throwing out planket statements to justify futility for and time spance is weaksauce.

[gebobs]

Um...what?

[sukie]

Weren't we told this would be painful a year ago or am I halucinating again?

Sorry "and" should have been "any" (time spance)

[coastal]

Goal should be to have two first round picks at least in each of the next two drafts..

we got two defensemen... Need to follow-up with two top pick centers now.

[OpIv37]

Goal should be to have two first round picks at least in each of the next two drafts..

we got two defensemen... Need to follow-up with two top pick centers now.
Unfortunately draft picks almost always take time to develop in the NHL. Even if we have 4 first round picks in the next two years, we are probably looking at 16-17 or 17-18 before they hit he ice and a couple of years after that before they are true stars.

[trapezeus]

correct me if i am wrong, but i think we all have a lot more patience if reiger was not attached to this.

and i can't wait for the Mid march run where we finish 6 points short of the playoffs, and everyone says, "wow, there is a lot of hope here." and they disregard our run was a result of playing backup goalies for most of the second half.

Hockey isn't football. there is no such thing as a 3 year rebuild. break down the worst parts with leino and stafford, mail out vanek and get some new talent so we have a legitimate line 1 today. and make the rookies play well on lines 2 and 3 as opposed to having to deal with other team's top lines.

[PTI]

Selena Gomez at the FIrst Niagara center tonight, Sabres want, you want some action?!?!?!?!?

[gebobs]

Just read on last night's recap...not only are the Sabres 0-8, but they haven't even held a lead this season. Not even for a second.
Correction: they had 1-0 and 2-1 leads against Tampa.

I'm surprisingly disappointed.

[OpIv37]

You know, I started this thread from a place of frustration, basically hoping that my immediate need to lash out would make me look foolish once the team gelled a bit and became somewhat competent. Instead it's gotten so much worse. In 8 games we've only had 2 leads- both in the same game against hapless Tampa. The PP is god- awful, we have a mere 1 point in the standings, and the team is averaging one goal a game. Their highest offensive output has been two goals and that's only happened once.

They are actually so much worse than I thought.

[JATMtheJATM]

You know, I started this thread from a place of frustration, basically hoping that my immediate need to lash out would make me look foolish once the team gelled a bit and became somewhat competent. Instead it's gotten so much worse. In 8 games we've only had 2 leads- both in the same game against hapless Tampa. The PP is god- awful, we have a mere 1 point in the standings, and the team is averaging one goal a game. Their highest offensive output has been two goals and that's only happened once.

They are actually so much worse than I thought.

last night was the closest theyve played to a good game all year. and there were still periods of ineptitude in the offensive zone. but man, i predicted a horrible start. hopefully my prediction of coming together some in the second half comes true. keep plugging larsson in the lineup and let him grow. grigs is looking slightly better out there too.

[gebobs]

You know, I started this thread from a place of frustration, basically hoping that my immediate need to lash out would make me look foolish once the team gelled a bit and became somewhat competent. Instead it's gotten so much worse. In 8 games we've only had 2 leads- both in the same game against hapless Tampa. The PP is god- awful, we have a mere 1 point in the standings, and the team is averaging one goal a game. Their highest offensive output has been two goals and that's only happened once.

They are actually so much worse than I thought.
What do you expect? I'm frustrated too, but it's going to take a lot more than a few games for them to develop. Let's face it, this is an AHL team.

[JATMtheJATM]

i was saying boo-urns...

[OpIv37]

What do you expect? I'm frustrated too, but it's going to take a lot more than a few games for them to develop. Let's face it, this is an AHL team.

I didn't expect much but I expected better than this. Another 0 goal performance last night, 19 shots given up in the first period alone and they surrendered a shorty. They can't complete a pass because every opponent is always a step ahead of them. Porter and Flynn take too much time to set up their shots and get them blocked instead of just throwing it at the net. And McCormick handed them a goal on a mistake they teach you not to make on the first day of pee-wee hockey.

And I just don't see it from Pysyk. Kid was in completely over his head last week.

These guys would probably lose to an AHL team.

[Dude]

#suffering

[gebobs]

I didn't expect much but I expected better than this. Another 0 goal performance last night, 19 shots given up in the first period alone and they surrendered a shorty. They can't complete a pass because every opponent is always a step ahead of them. Porter and Flynn take too much time to set up their shots and get them blocked instead of just throwing it at the net. And McCormick handed them a goal on a mistake they teach you not to make on the first day of pee-wee hockey.

I don't think Porter or McCormick are in the Sabres long-term plans. I'm not sure about Flynn. As for Pysyk, he's a rookie. Give him time.

[DetDannyWilliams]

Ted Black on WGR550 10/17 http://audio.wgr550.com/a/82813223/10-17-ted-black-on-wgr.htm?q=Ted+Black he says the Sabres have a plan and they are staying the course of that plan

[JATMtheJATM]

I didn't expect much but I expected better than this. Another 0 goal performance last night, 19 shots given up in the first period alone and they surrendered a shorty. They can't complete a pass because every opponent is always a step ahead of them. Porter and Flynn take too much time to set up their shots and get them blocked instead of just throwing it at the net. And McCormick handed them a goal on a mistake they teach you not to make on the first day of pee-wee hockey.

And I just don't see it from Pysyk. Kid was in completely over his head last week.

These guys would probably lose to an AHL team.

i admit, i expected suffering (and with suffering comes light at the end of the tunnel: the 2014 entry draft) but i was hoping for more from this team too.

as for pysyk. he looks good more often then not. hes a rookie in his second year of pro. hes a smart player who should probably still be in rochester. he will be fine. gotta let him learn.

[SkateZilla]

of the plan is to lose games, then that plan is working..

[JATMtheJATM]

of the plan is to lose games, then that plan is working..

the plan is to play young players and allow them to develop. usually that goes hand in hand with losing.

[OpIv37]

i admit, i expected suffering (and with suffering comes light at the end of the tunnel: the 2014 entry draft) but i was hoping for more from this team too.

as for pysyk. he looks good more often then not. hes a rookie in his second year of pro. hes a smart player who should probably still be in rochester. he will be fine. gotta let him learn.
Here's the problem: whoever we get in the next draft is likely to be 2-3 years from entering the league and 4-5 years from peaking. Hello 2020.

It's the old Buffalo mantra of building for a future that never arrives.

I know, this team was such a mess that there is no way to turn it around instantly. It just gets so frustrating to wait and wait and wait, only to see the rebuild fail and have to start over without any success to show for it.

[JATMtheJATM]

Here's the problem: whoever we get in the next draft is likely to be 2-3 years from entering the league and 4-5 years from peaking. Hello 2020.

It's the old Buffalo mantra of building for a future that never arrives.

I know, this team was such a mess that there is no way to turn it around instantly. It just gets so frustrating to wait and wait and wait, only to see the rebuild fail and have to start over without any success to show for it.

if the sabres get the first or second overall pick, they will likely be an impact player out of the gate to some degree.

[PTI]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/5697/

This turd, Hertl was taken 17th in 2012 draft by the Sharks!!!!!!! Ugh. We passed twice.

[JATMtheJATM]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/5697/

This turd, Hertl was taken 17th in 2012 draft by the Sharks!!!!!!! Ugh. We passed twice.

hindsight, my friend. hindsight.

[SkateZilla]

ONE SJ Rookie almost has more goals than our entire team.


I'm expecting a 8-0 Butt Whipping Saturday.

Losing this much is only gonna aggravate them..

[Ginger Vitis]

Here's the problem: whoever we get in the next draft is likely to be 2-3 years from entering the league



That assumption is not accurate and it's a 90s way of thinking.. 5 of the top 6 players taken in the 2013 draft are playing in the NHL right now.. Nathan Mackinnon and Sean Monahan are averaging a point a game. Sasha Barkov has 5 points in 8 games. Defensemen Seth Jones has 3 points in 7 games and is even +- Any player the Sabres take with a top 3 pick will be playing with Buffalo next year they will not be waiting 2-3 years for a top 3 player.. Especially if it is Sam Reinhart who is in his 3rd year of junior and is definitely ready to play in the NHL next year

[JATMtheJATM]

zadarov is playing tonight why?

[SkateZilla]

Bills still have more wins, more scores, and more heart than anyone on this team, and that's SAD.

[gebobs]

The NBCSN crew had it in for Hodgson last night. Despite whiffing on Vanek's pass and luckily getting the puck to go off his skate and in, they were merciless in showing how damned lazy he was.

[OpIv37]

The NBCSN crew had it in for Hodgson last night. Despite whiffing on Vanek's pass and luckily getting the puck to go off his skate and in, they were merciless in showing how damned lazy he was.

And that's the whole problem. Hogson has talent and could be a star. He NEEDS to be a star if this rebuild is going to work. But the laziness and apathy of the guys like Stafford and Ehrhoff are rubbing off on him. He knows there's no point in trying because the team isn't going to win and his contract status is safe. It's the dangerous Pominville/Roy/Stafford mentality that this team has had for far too long.

[OpIv37]

Bills still have more wins, more scores, and more heart than anyone on this team, and that's SAD.
Remember how we used to joke about how our hockey team could outscore our football team? Never though I'd miss those days, but at least back then we had one team in the running....

[sukie]

I still contend this isn't a rebuild. It's the final collapse leading up to rebuild commencement. If Darcy remains then it will still be leading up to it until he is gone.

[JATMtheJATM]

I still contend this isn't a rebuild. It's the final collapse leading up to rebuild commencement. If Darcy remains then it will still be leading up to it until he is gone.

you could contend that all you want, but you would be wrong. just because a few vets havnt been traded yet because the right deal hasnt come along doesnt mean it isnt in full gear. you can tell its a rebuild from the trading of all the other vets for picks and prospects, and the use of young players, and of course, having a coach in place known for his development in young players. this is a rebuild. and its going to stay ugly for a while.

[gebobs]

you could contend that all you want, but you would be wrong. just because a few vets havnt been traded yet because the right deal hasnt come along doesnt mean it isnt in full gear. you can tell its a rebuild from the trading of all the other vets for picks and prospects, and the use of young players, and of course, having a coach in place known for his development in young players. this is a rebuild. and its going to stay ugly for a while.

Yeah...five of the top 50 picks last year and I think eight or nine guys that have seen ice this year are rookie or sophomore. In 2014, they will have another four in the top 50, and more after they shop Vanek and Miller. This isn't retooling. It's a rebuild like they have never done before.

[sukie]

Yeah...five of the top 50 picks last year and I think eight or nine guys that have seen ice this year are rookie or sophomore. In 2014, they will have another four in the top 50, and more after they shop Vanek and Miller. This isn't retooling. It's a rebuild like they have never done before.

Hopefully the building will be done by someone new. The contractor we have had recently does shoddy work. Lotsa particle board.

[gebobs]

Hopefully the building will be done by someone new. The contractor we have had recently does shoddy work. Lotsa particle board.

Ready to toss Grigorenko to the side eh?

[sukie]

Ready to toss Grigorenko to the side eh?

No just the guy that selected him. Sometimes blind squirells... you know the rest.

[JATMtheJATM]

Hopefully the building will be done by someone new. The contractor we have had recently does shoddy work. Lotsa particle board.

i wont disagree with you there.

[JATMtheJATM]

Yeah...five of the top 50 picks last year and I think eight or nine guys that have seen ice this year are rookie or sophomore. In 2014, they will have another four in the top 50, and more after they shop Vanek and Miller. This isn't retooling. It's a rebuild like they have never done before.

and there is a good chance the sabres will have a top pick skating next year too. unless they pick it up (and i expect them to, in the second half once some of the kids start to grow. but boy, things are bad right now)

[gebobs]

No just the guy that selected him. Sometimes blind squirells... you know the rest.
OTOH, guys like Leino aren't just a problem for the Sabres. FA busts happen all the time. It's just the Sabres hadn't had much experience in that respect.

[JATMtheJATM]

OTOH, guys like Leino aren't just a problem for the Sabres. FA busts happen all the time. It's just the Sabres hadn't had much experience in that respect.

i wouldnt call leino a bust. well, i guess you could, considering his first year as a sabres was awful, and his second, while he was good when he played, he missed 80% of the season. and this year hes played 1 game. so a bust is fair, but i think the sabres should give him more time.

[trapezeus]

i wouldnt call leino a bust. well, i guess you could, considering his first year as a sabres was awful, and his second, while he was good when he played, he missed 80% of the season. and this year hes played 1 game. so a bust is fair, but i think the sabres should give him more time.

should we givehim the "full darcy" and let him try for 17 years to be the worst guy to every play the game and then still wonder if its time to pull the plug.

[JATMtheJATM]

should we givehim the "full darcy" and let him try for 17 years to be the worst guy to every play the game and then still wonder if its time to pull the plug.

no, but let him play the rest of this season and see if he helps at all. the thing about leino is he is a two way player. so even if hes a 35 point per year guy on average (just throwing this out there) he can still be a major asset to the team in his own end, as well as depth wise.

after this year, with 3 years at 4.5 mil each, its still unlikely a team will take him (maybe the islanders or panthers who have space) but id at least offer him up.