thad lewis

[djjimkelly]

couldnt have had a better drive hes the backup. and no more but what a composed drive

[TacklingDummy]

One thing came out of this game, Thad should be the starter even when EJ gets healthy.

[Novacane]

One thing came out of this game, Thad should be the starter even when EJ gets healthy.


If he continues to play like today I agree. Lets see more than 1 game

[Mr. Pink]

Who was the person who said Thad > EJ?

Who was the person saying people would be impressed with Thad after today?

I'll take my bow now. Thanks!

[Typ0]

It's frustrating that Tuel played last week. Very frustrating.

[IAG]

This is EJ's team.

[Crisis]

I like Thad. Think he can be the long-term backup that we thought Tuel was.

[TacklingDummy]

This is EJ's team.

No it's not.
He hasn't earned anything.

[BillsImpossible]

He had a good game today. Can't blame Lewis for the OT loss. Looks like he's going to win us a couple of games in the next few weeks based on today's performance. I was impressed. Sucks they lost, but still impressed with this very young team and a backup QB who had no business coming so close today against a very good defense.

Lewis played as good, if not better than EJ Manuel today.

[RedEyE]

Thad Lewis is not better than EJ Manuel. I saw the same inconsistencies today in the pass game as I have all season. Recievers are not making the necessary reads to aide the QB. The QB is having to wait entirely too long for the play to develop. The play calling was better today but the end result was the same. Still some questionable calls from the Bills booth. Poor ball protection. Receivers dropping catchable passes...these things and more have plagued the offense all year.

I don't want to take away from what Lewis did today though. His legs are fast and he was making some decent reads. He looked very poised for a guy that just came off a PS. What's crazy is I think he might ge further along in development than Manuel but I do not think he can be much better than what you saw today. Manuel's ceiling is much higher and with some more development he will earn the respect of fans and players.

[IAG]

No it's not.
He hasn't earned anything.

Then you will never have a franchise starter. You are not patient enough to let a young kid go through his learning process.

[JohnnyGold]

it seems like people WANT there to be a qb controversy.

with the way the NFL works these days with what the corners aren't allowed to do in coverage, and what the defenders arent allowed to do to the quarterback, pretty much ANY qb in the NFL can come in and put 21 points on the board, like lewis did today.

the question is, how much can they do IN ADDITION to that.

manuel's floor has been established, and it's what we've seen so far this season: a game manager, a couple of td's, and no back breaking turnovers to ruin the game for us (unlike fitzy).

the thing we don't know is his ceiling--but i am comfortable in saying that the touch manuel has on the intermediate routes and his ability to throw into coverage puts him way ahead of lewis in terms of overall ability. i think the long ball will come as manuel adjusts to the timing of his wideouts, the speed of an nfl rush in his face, and just an overall pocket presence that allows him to wait for that seperation on deep routes.

it was a good game by lewis today, yes, but im excited for manuel to get back, and i think there could be something special in place for next year.

as much as it pains me to say it, (being ever the optimist): today's loss more than likely makes a wildcard an impossibility. time to let the kids play out the string and learn on the job.

[JoeMama]

Who was the person who said Thad > EJ?

Who was the person saying people would be impressed with Thad after today?

I'll take my bow now. Thanks!

I was too busy watching our team lose to notice.

Looked like the same old **** to me.

[Mr. Pink]

Holy cow...you need to give Manuel time to adjust and learn the NFL and the speed and the blah blah blah...

This was Lewis' second NFL start.

He has seen less game action that Manuel has.

But we know his ceiling already and we've only seen Manuel's floor????

Today's start by Lewis was as good, if not better, than Manuel's best start of the year. The difference is Lewis actually has some accuracy on his deep ball as evidenced by the throws to Graham and Goodwin.

[jdaltroy5]

I think the biggest difference was that Thad had nothing to lose and was trying to play his way onto an NFL roster.

Manuel has higher expectations and was playing a lot more cautious because he was afraid of messing up.

I like that Thad has a similar skillset to Manuel, but I would still give the reins back to Manuel as soon as he's healthy.

[RedEyE]

Holy cow...you need to give Manuel time to adjust and learn the NFL and the speed and the blah blah blah...

This was Lewis' second NFL start.

He has seen less game action that Manuel has.

But we know his ceiling already and we've only seen Manuel's floor????

Today's start by Lewis was as good, if not better, than Manuel's best start of the year. The difference is Lewis actually has some accuracy on his deep ball as evidenced by the throws to Graham and Goodwin.
Yes, of course. And the rest of the NFL was chomping at the bit to reel in Thad Lewis. Give me a ****ing break. You should have said no to that second six pack.

[YardRat]

Not a bad game by the kid...definitely earned a spot on the regular roster, and maybe the #2 spot.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

manuel's floor has been established, and it's what we've seen so far this season: a game manager, a couple of td's, and no back breaking turnovers to ruin the game for us (unlike fitzy)

You sure about that?

Lewis played his balls off today. I don't think he should remain the starter when Manuel comes back, but if he keeps this up then he should make EJ nervous.

[Mr. Pink]

Yes, of course. And the rest of the NFL was chomping at the bit to reel in Thad Lewis. Give me a ****ing break. You should have said no to that second six pack.

And so many teams were chomping at the bit to get EJ Manuel right?

Give me a ****ing break.

[RedEyE]

And so many teams were chomping at the bit to get EJ Manuel right?

Give me a ****ing break.
What round was Lewis drafted and in which year? I guess the rest of the NFL was wrong on the talent evaluation but you've got them all snowed, don't ya?

[RedEyE]

This guy is what he is, serviceable. Again, great game but there was nothing about that game that injects Lewis to QB 1 when Manuel is healthy.

[Mr. Pink]

What round was Lewis drafted and in which year? I guess the rest of the NFL was wrong on the talent evaluation but you've got them all snowed, don't ya?

We overdrafted Manuel in a weak QB class so that automatically makes him better? Really?

So since Manuel is now a 1st round pick because we made him so he has potential and Lewis is just what he is apparently.

Lewis cannot possibly have any potential to improve on what we saw today, which was a hell of a lot better than what we've seen out of Manuel so far, because he wasn't drafted.

Got it! :up:

[RedEyE]

We overdrafted thuel in a weak QB class so that automatically makes him better? Really?

So since Manuel is now a 1st round pick because we made him so he has potential and Lewis is just what he is apparently.

Lewis cannot possibly have any potential to improve on what we saw today, which was a hell of a lot better than what we've seen out of Manuel so far, because he wasn't drafted.

Got it! :up:

How many games has EJ played? So you're either clairvoyant or Bill Polian....

[Mace]

Thad Lewis looked competent and did not disgrace himself, showing flashes of proficient. Credit to the coaching staff, Hackett had him in the booth with him while calling the games and Lewis was on the practice squad. I'm hoping the recovering Manuel is in the booth with Hackett as he's calling the games.

Way too early to start making QB controversies. There's next week first.

[JCBills]

Now now children.

[superbills]

Well, according to Shefter, we're bringing Matt Flynn in for a workout, so EJ may be out longer than we think...

[DBrown77]

Thad throws a way more accurate deep ball then EJ. He got the ball out quicker too...

[BuffaloWingEater]

Holy cow...you need to give Manuel time to adjust and learn the NFL and the speed and the blah blah blah...

This was Lewis' second NFL start.

He has seen less game action that Manuel has.

But we know his ceiling already and we've only seen Manuel's floor????

Today's start by Lewis was as good, if not better, than Manuel's best start of the year. The difference is Lewis actually has some accuracy on his deep ball as evidenced by the throws to Graham and Goodwin.

He also scans the field well and doesnt check down as often

[BuffaloWingEater]

It is one game, but if thad keeps this up there will be a competition. I am fine with. Whatever is best for the buffalo bills. And no, this is not manuels team; it isvthe best qbs team

[TacklingDummy]

It is one game, but if thad keeps this up there will be a competition. I am fine with. Whatever is best for the buffalo bills. And no, this is not manuels team; it isvthe best qbs team
If Thad keeps it up there is no competition.

[BuffaloWingEater]

I just dont understand its ejs team mantra. He has played better than ok, but everybodys job is an open competition.

[Edward Robinson]

Thad Lewis looked competent and did not disgrace himself, showing flashes of proficient. Credit to the coaching staff, Hackett had him in the booth with him while calling the games and Lewis was on the practice squad. I'm hoping the recovering Manuel is in the booth with Hackett as he's calling the games.

Way too early to start making QB controversies. There's next week first.

Manuel was/will be in the booth during his injury

[kishoph]

Holy cow...you need to give Manuel time to adjust and learn the NFL and the speed and the blah blah blah...

This was Lewis' second NFL start.

He has seen less game action that Manuel has.

But we know his ceiling already and we've only seen Manuel's floor????

Today's start by Lewis was as good, if not better, than Manuel's best start of the year. The difference is Lewis actually has some accuracy on his deep ball as evidenced by the throws to Graham and Goodwin.


This is also Lewis's 4th year in the NFL, he's had 3 years of practicing with NFL players in NFL systems, compared to Manuel's 4-5 months. As far as accuracy on his deep throws, Lewis had some nice throws yesterday, but read any scouting report on Lewis and it says that he has inconsistent accuracy on the deep ball, so don't think that Lewis is going to be hitting every deep ball he throws. This is also a problem that Manuel has, but Lewis has had a lot more time to work on it.

[DBrown77]

Lewis has a mild foot sprain so hopefully he can play against the Phins this week.

[justasportsfan]

Who was the person saying people would be impressed with Thad after today?

ME

:D

[justasportsfan]

it seems like people WANT there to be a qb controversy.

with the way the NFL works these days with what the corners aren't allowed to do in coverage, and what the defenders arent allowed to do to the quarterback, pretty much ANY qb in the NFL can come in and put 21 points on the board, like lewis did today.

the question is, how much can they do IN ADDITION to that.

manuel's floor has been established, and it's what we've seen so far this season: a game manager, a couple of td's, and no back breaking turnovers to ruin the game for us (unlike fitzy).

the thing we don't know is his ceiling--but i am comfortable in saying that the touch manuel has on the intermediate routes and his ability to throw into coverage puts him way ahead of lewis in terms of overall ability. i think the long ball will come as manuel adjusts to the timing of his wideouts, the speed of an nfl rush in his face, and just an overall pocket presence that allows him to wait for that seperation on deep routes.

it was a good game by lewis today, yes, but im excited for manuel to get back, and i think there could be something special in place for next year.

as much as it pains me to say it, (being ever the optimist): today's loss more than likely makes a wildcard an impossibility. time to let the kids play out the string and learn on the job.


I don't want a qb controversy. I want a franchise qb and EJ hasn't shown he is one yet. I'm not ready to call him a bust but he hasn't shown he's got the moxy to throw the ball. We play a practice squad qb who has had a little more than a week to practice with the 1st unit and all of a sudden we have a vertical passing game.

I don't know if EJ tends to lock in to his favorite wr's and then dump off if they are coered but Thad spreads the ball. EJ has all the tools (and more than Thad ) but Thad looks better in the pocket.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Let's wait and see what defenses adjust to Thad as his films go around the league a few times. This is his 2nd game at NFL level. There is a reason he bounced around. Not saying he's never going to improve or Marrone and Co. is a better match for him. Let's see what transpires in a few weeks.

All in all, I maintain this year is a trying and learning experience for all - GM, coaches, new and young players, schemes, and us fans. And suggestions of playoff is just absurd in my opinion. On offense, we are really hitting all areas: QB, backup QBs; RB and backup RBs (is CJ really an avery down back?); WR and the young ones; Chandler can play, not just for Gailey and Fritz, but anyone else as TE? O-Line, do we have a LG?

[better days]

And so many teams were chomping at the bit to get EJ Manuel right?

Give me a ****ing break.

If the Bills did not draft EJ, there is no question some other team would have.

[TacklingDummy]

If the Bills did not draft EJ, there is no question some other team would have.

Way to go out on a limb there.
I agree someone else would have drafted him, maybe in the 2nd or 3rd round.

[GingerP]

Before breaking your arm patting yourself on the back, why not wait to see if Lewis can perform to the same level in road games against Miami & New Orleans the next couple weeks. One good game does not a career make, just ask Matt Flynn or Rob Johnson.

[RedEyE]

I'm not concerned. Two stifled games by Thad and these guys that are jumping off the EJ bandwagon will be right back on. Its how they work. Its this new generation of 'I gotta have it right here right now'....

At season start, knowing EJ was the man, there wasn't a ****ing turd out there that had the Bills going to the playoffs and that includes every turd on this board. Then everyone seemed to be OK with letting the rookie progress. So what happened? Well, EJ showed signs of life against NE and Carolina and these guys got their hope and expectations all twisted up. They expect MORE MORE MORE.. Excel!! You need to be the next Jim Kelly!!

Then pinned up against the other rookie Geno Smith, EJ has more of a rookie like game. ALERT ALERT ABANDON SHIP!!

...oh wait, hold on. He's having a decent game against the Ravens. Never mind hold the phone!

...oh wait, EJ didn't ****ing run out of bounds on the Browns 10 yard line!! ALLL IS WRONG IN THE ****ING WORLD!!!! ALERT ALERT !!!

These guys bailing on a rookie after a 1/4 of a season. What a ****ing joke!

And they will be bailing on Thad Lewis too as soon as he has a rough game or two. Love this Madden mentality! ****ing joke of a fanbase.

[better days]

I'm not concerned. Two stifled games by Thad and these guys that are jumping off the EJ bandwagon will be right back on. Its how they work. Its this new generation of 'I gotta have it right here right now'....

At season start, knowing EJ was the man, there wasn't a ****ing turd out there that had the Bills going to the playoffs and that includes every turd on this board. Then everyone seemed to be OK with letting the rookie progress. So what happened? Well, EJ showed signs of life against NE and Carolina and these guys got their hope and expectations all twisted up. They expect MORE MORE MORE.. Excel!! You need to be the next Jim Kelly!!

Then pinned up against the other rookie Geno Smith, EJ has more of a rookie like game. ALERT ALERT ABANDON SHIP!!

...oh wait, hold on. He's having a decent game against the Ravens. Never mind hold the phone!

...oh wait, EJ didn't ****ing run out of bounds on the Browns 10 yard line!! ALLL IS WRONG IN THE ****ING WORLD!!!! ALERT ALERT !!!

These guys bailing on a rookie after a 1/4 of a season. What a ****ing joke!

And they will be bailing on Thad Lewis too as soon as he has a rough game or two. Love this Madden mentality! ****ing joke of a fanbase.

Agreed, except it is not the entire fan base, just a few, most likely younger members of it.

And I understand their impatience they have known only losing by this team.

[feldspar]

You sure about that?

Lewis played his balls off today. I don't think he should remain the starter when Manuel comes back, but if he keeps this up then he should make EJ nervous.

No doubt. Lewis showed a whole world of gumption in the clutch, too.

[Bill Cody]

This shocks me....the people saying Thad > EJ are people that....have had an anti EJ agenda since draft day...funny how that works

[justasportsfan]

This shocks me....the people saying Thad > EJ are people that....have had an anti EJ agenda since draft day...funny how that works

I liked Ej out of the qb's drafted but I am just making an observation based on the games. The D, OL and the run game for the most part played well for EJ in the 2 games we won. The OL and DL didn't show up yesterday in the 1st 3 qtrs. for Thad.

[Mr. Pink]

This shocks me....the people saying Thad > EJ are people that....have had an anti EJ agenda since draft day...funny how that works

Funny isn't it? You know that the best QB on this roster was on the PS until EJ went down. Funny how the guys in charge can't evaluate talent and kept Jeff ***** Tuel as the backup which literally cost a game. Very funny.

And you're right, I'm done with Manuel. The same way I was done with Losman after a few starts. The same way I was done with Fitz after a few starts. He flat out isn't good enough to win.

Now let's get this straight...Lewis isn't good enough to win either but he gives the best chance at winning right now and I want the best players on the field at all times.

We gambled on drafting a QB in the weakest QB draft class in recent memory because we neglected the position for years. We gambled and we lost. Flat out. Next April we better be drafting someone else.

[Bill Cody]

Funny isn't it? You know that the best QB on this roster was on the PS until EJ went down. Funny how the guys in charge can't evaluate talent and kept Jeff ***** Tuel as the backup which literally cost a game. Very funny.

And you're right, I'm done with Manuel. The same way I was done with Losman after a few starts. The same way I was done with Fitz after a few starts. He flat out isn't good enough to win.

Now let's get this straight...Lewis isn't good enough to win either but he gives the best chance at winning right now and I want the best players on the field at all times.

We gambled on drafting a QB in the weakest QB draft class in recent memory because we neglected the position for years. We gambled and we lost. Flat out. Next April we better be drafting someone else.

You're clueless. Sorry.

[justasportsfan]

Funny isn't it? You know that the best QB on this roster was on the PS until EJ went down. Funny how the guys in charge can't evaluate talent and kept Jeff ***** Tuel as the backup which literally cost a game. Very funny.

And you're right, I'm done with Manuel. The same way I was done with Losman after a few starts. The same way I was done with Fitz after a few starts. He flat out isn't good enough to win.

Now let's get this straight...Lewis isn't good enough to win either but he gives the best chance at winning right now and I want the best players on the field at all times.

We gambled on drafting a QB in the weakest QB draft class in recent memory because we neglected the position for years. We gambled and we lost. Flat out. Next April we better be drafting someone else.

So you were done with Rogers, Brees, Alex Smith, Warner too?

[Mr. Pink]

You're clueless. Sorry.

Okay. Solid rebuttal.

Shockingly somehow Manuel is the worst starting QB we've had in over a decade. I don't even know how that's fully possible with some of the crap we've trotted out there but it happened. Each QB we've had has done at least one thing well, be that deep balls, be that dumpoffs, be that checking down constantly...

Manuel does nothing well. He has the qualities of 3 QB whipping boys we've had all rolled into one neat crap package. He has the ball security skills of Losman, the decision making skills of Trent Edwards and the body of Rob Johnson.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

...oh wait, hold on. He's having a decent game against the Ravens. Never mind hold the phone!

Hell no he didn't.

I don't know why people keep whitewashing this. He was awful against Baltimore. AWFUL.

[Mr. Pink]

So you were done with Rogers, Brees, Alex Smith, Warner too?

Rogers and Warner don't even belong on your question list.

Rogers set on the bench for years waiting for Favre to finally decide he was done in Green Bay. Warner when given a chance to play at the NFL level actually performed.

Alex Smith I actually always liked at QB and believe I was one of the people saying we should bring him in here.

I'll give you Brees, after his arm issues I wouldn't have taken a chance on him and I woulda been wrong. Kudos to the Saints for taking a chance on him. Thankfully the Dolphins took my stance.

[TacklingDummy]

Manuel does nothing well. He has the qualities of 3 QB whipping boys we've had all rolled into one neat crap package. He has the ball security skills of Losman, the decision making skills of Trent Edwards and the body of Rob Johnson.

His long balls remind me of Doug Flutie's towering rainbows. Except for Flutie's were on target and EJ's are no where near being caught.

[RedEyE]

I would love for one of you guys to prove your theory that Manuel isn't going to be a good QB. Go ahead. Submit your evidence. I'll wait.

[Mr. Pink]

I would love for one of you guys to prove your theory that Manuel isn't going to be a good QB. Go ahead. Submit your evidence. I'll wait.

It's called watching enough garbage QBs over the years to realize when a guy is flat out a scrub.

It's called watching another guy come in and play even better in the same offense when he was on the practice squad 2 weeks ago.

Apparently we just didn't give Fitz, Losman, Rob Johnson, Edwards enough time to fully develop though in your expert opinion. I mean after all they might have figured it out eventually, right?

[Saratoga Slim]

The same people that are anointing Thad Lewis now were probably doing the same thing regarding Manuel after his comeback drive versus the Panthers. Lewis basically played well yesterday on the first drive and the last couple drives. In between was a lot of inaccuracy, hesitation in decision making, and tipped balls. But my point here is that I don't feel altogether worse about having Thad Lewis in there than Manuel. They both have a long way to go before being declared franchise QBs. EJ has the bigger arm and 'feels' like he has bigger upside. But his accuracy is extremely troubling, and I'm not sure how much accuracy can be fixed. The high point here is I think the coaching staff is doing a great job getting these works-in-progress to score some points.

[Mike]

I would love for one of you guys to prove your theory that Manuel isn't going to be a good QB. Go ahead. Submit your evidence. I'll wait.

Sometimes I wish the homers were a bit more educated, a bit more critical in their thinking.

So, to address you question, first let me point out that it's erroneous. Theories Do Not Get Proven! In fact, it's impossible to prove anything which is why the sciences focus on 'prediction' and the legal system uses evidence to 'prove beyond a reasonable doubt'.

To your point, regarding Manual the body of evidence shows that he has the following major issues:
1) accuracy: misses WR all over the field: long, short, middle. Even when he connects, often the pass could have been thrown to a better spot.
2) touch: not there
3) mechanics: throws off his back foot
4) reading defenses: checks down, takes too many sacks, Doesn't spread ball around
5) creativity: can't throw a WR open, doest manipulate defenders, missing that creativity and improv
6) It factor: hasn't wowed me once. Heck even Josh Freeman had a number if wow plays as a rookie. Doesn't have 'it'

On the plus side he is a good leader, and has poise, but those qualifies are only valuable to a good QB. My grandma has poise and leadership but trust me, you don't want her QBing the Bills.

[better days]

Hell no he didn't.

I don't know why people keep whitewashing this. He was awful against Baltimore. AWFUL.

If he were all that awful against the Ravens, the Bills would have LOST the game.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What I saw Sunday in Lewis was a guy who had nothing to lose and played like it. He's a practice squad player who is hoping to play well enough to earn a long term backup deal with the outside shot at starting. Basically, to be the next Matt Flynn/Billy Volek/Ryan Fitzpatrick/Brian Hoyer. When a QB is in that zone, it can be fun to watch but it's highly combustible. He could go out there next Sunday and throw for 3 TDs or 3 turnovers, and I expect would be the same way until he gets that contract.

EJ, on the other hand, is the presumptive franchise QB. He's under way more pressure to develop and it looked like it. I thought he was playing tense, so he would constantly mess up his mechanics.

Tuel looked like a field mouse in an eagle's nest so he's out of the conversation for the time being.

[Turf]

Lewis did and incredibly effective job without Johnson in the game. EJ hasn't come close with that level of support. Let's see what he does in two more weeks.

[better days]

Sometimes I wish the homers were a bit more educated, a bit more critical in their thinking.

So, to address you question, first let me point out that it's erroneous. Theories Do Not Get Proven! In fact, it's impossible to prove anything which is why the sciences focus on 'prediction' and the legal system uses evidence to 'prove beyond a reasonable doubt'.

To your point, regarding Manual the body of evidence shows that he has the following major issues:
1) accuracy: misses WR all over the field: long, short, middle. Even when he connects, often the pass could have been thrown to a better spot.
2) touch: not there
3) mechanics: throws off his back foot
4) reading defenses: checks down, takes too many sacks, Doesn't spread ball around
5) creativity: can't throw a WR open, doest manipulate defenders, missing that creativity and improv
6) It factor: hasn't wowed me once. Heck even Josh Freeman had a number if wow plays as a rookie. Doesn't have 'it'

On the plus side he is a good leader, and has poise, but those qualifies are only valuable to a good QB. My grandma has poise and leadership but trust me, you don't want her QBing the Bills.

Show us the PROOF of your evidence. In court you have to SHOW the evidence, not make idle claims of evidence that don't exist.

And while some of your points may exist on occasion, you have no evidence they can't be fixed with some coaching & experience.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If he were all that awful against the Ravens, the Bills would have LOST the game.

They very nearly did, despite a turnover frenzy from the defense. The guy accounted for 168 yards and THREE turnovers, including a fumble inside our own 30 that would have given the Ravens an easy chance to tie the game.

For god's sakes, how bad does a Bills QB have to play before you'll recognize a crap performance?

[JCBills]

I didn't realize so many pro scouts and FO workers come to the zone.

[Mr. Pink]

Show us the PROOF of your evidence. In court you have to SHOW the evidence, not make idle claims of evidence that don't exist.

And while some of your points may exist on occasion, you have no evidence they can't be fixed with some coaching & experience.

:rofl:

The same crap above was said about Losman, Edwards, etc...

How'd that work out? Maybe we can waste another 2 seasons with this guy before we finally figure out we need to go another direction.

- - - Updated - - -


I didn't realize so many pro scouts and FO workers come to the zone.

The sad part is many posters on this site could have done a better job running this team the past decade than the guys who are actually getting paid to do it have done.

[RedEyE]

It's called watching enough garbage QBs over the years to realize when a guy is flat out a scrub.

It's called watching another guy come in and play even better in the same offense when he was on the practice squad 2 weeks ago.

Apparently we just didn't give Fitz, Losman, Rob Johnson, Edwards enough time to fully develop though in your expert opinion. I mean after all they might have figured it out eventually, right?

Nice:
Fitz wasn't drafted by Buffalo. He was given 4 years prior to arriving in Buffalo and an additional 4 while in Buffalo.
JP Losman, Drafted by Buffalo and given repeated chances over a total of 4 years
Rob Johnson was drafted by Jacksonville. Given two years there, then an additional 4 in Buffalo.
Trent Edwards was drafted by the Bills and given officially 3 years to improve.

So how much time has passed that you've already given up on Manuel? That's right, 4 games. You've gathered so much information in a total of 4 games that you are 100% certain that Manuel will never be a pro QB.


I find that a bit premature.

[Mr. Pink]

Nice:
Fitz wasn't drafted by Buffalo. He was given 4 years prior to arriving in Buffalo and an additional 4 while in Buffalo.
JP Losman, Drafted by Buffalo and given repeated chances over a total of 4 years
Rob Johnson was drafted by Jacksonville. Given two years there, then an additional 4 in Buffalo.
Trent Edwards was drafted by the Bills and given officially 3 years to improve.

So how much time has passed that you've already given up on Manuel? That's right, 4 games. You've gathered so much information in a total of 4 games that you are 100% certain that Manuel will never be a pro QB.


I find that a bit premature.

I find wasting any more time on this bum to be asinine. We've done enough wasting time on bums behind center since Kelly. Admit the mistake, move on. The sooner you move on, the better.

[RedEyE]

Sometimes I wish the homers were a bit more educated, a bit more critical in their thinking.

So, to address you question, first let me point out that it's erroneous. Theories Do Not Get Proven! In fact, it's impossible to prove anything which is why the sciences focus on 'prediction' and the legal system uses evidence to 'prove beyond a reasonable doubt'.

To your point, regarding Manual the body of evidence shows that he has the following major issues:
1) accuracy: misses WR all over the field: long, short, middle. Even when he connects, often the pass could have been thrown to a better spot.
2) touch: not there
3) mechanics: throws off his back foot
4) reading defenses: checks down, takes too many sacks, Doesn't spread ball around
5) creativity: can't throw a WR open, doest manipulate defenders, missing that creativity and improv
6) It factor: hasn't wowed me once. Heck even Josh Freeman had a number if wow plays as a rookie. Doesn't have 'it'

On the plus side he is a good leader, and has poise, but those qualifies are only valuable to a good QB. My grandma has poise and leadership but trust me, you don't want her QBing the Bills.

He hasn't "wowed" you once? Not once.

So when he took the Bills offense down the field against Carolina and scored the winning TD with no timeouts and less than 2 minutes to play, I guess you just sat back on your couch with your thumb still inserted in your ass?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Nice:
Fitz wasn't drafted by Buffalo. He was given 4 years prior to arriving in Buffalo and an additional 4 while in Buffalo.
JP Losman, Drafted by Buffalo and given repeated chances over a total of 4 years
Rob Johnson was drafted by Jacksonville. Given two years there, then an additional 4 in Buffalo.
Trent Edwards was drafted by the Bills and given officially 3 years to improve.

So how much time has passed that you've already given up on Manuel? That's right, 4 games. You've gathered so much information in a total of 4 games that you are 100% certain that Manuel will never be a pro QB.


I find that a bit premature.

Should we list off the QBs we passed on while we waited for these guys to figure it out? I'm not ready to give up on Manuel, but you've got to acknowledge the opportunity cost here.

[RedEyE]

Should we list off the QBs we passed on while we waited for these guys to figure it out? I'm not ready to give up on Manuel, but you've got to acknowledge the opportunity cost here.

I'm not acknowledging it because the idea of it this early in the season, in the evaluation process, is absolutely absurd!

[better days]

Should we list off the QBs we passed on while we waited for these guys to figure it out? I'm not ready to give up on Manuel, but you've got to acknowledge the opportunity cost here.

What would be the point. And if the Bills had drafted some of those QB's they would have been DESTROYED & not turned into the good QB's they did because of the Coaching & lack of talent on the team.

Nix built the team up first so when a QB was drafted that would not happen.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm not acknowledging it because the idea of it this early in the season, in the evaluation process is absurd!

Ok well Manuel may or may not play another down this season so if we're drafting top 5 and Boyd, Bridgewater, Murray are available do you pass on them just because you need more evaluation?

[RedEyE]

Ok well Manuel may or may not play another down this season so if we're drafting top 5 and Boyd, Bridgewater, Murray are available do you pass on them just because you need more evaluation?

While were mincing words, and in your case twisting them, why draft anyone? If the guy doesn't come out slinging from the gates, 300+ yds, 3 TDs a game, he's a bum and not meant for this team.

No, I'll leave the speculation to you since your crystal ball has far more insight than any GM or scout.

[Mr. Pink]

While were mincing words, and in your case twisting them, why draft anyone? If the guy doesn't come out slinging from the gates, 300+ yds, 3 TDs a game, he's a bum and not meant for this team.

No, I'll leave the speculation to you since your crystal ball has far more insight than any GM or scout.

Maybe the GM and scouting department should have listened to some of our insight for a while now and then bums like Losman, Manuel, Dareus, Whitner would have never been here to begin with.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just some random ******* stranger on a message board!

[stuckincincy]

Ok well Manuel may or may not play another down this season so if we're drafting top 5 and Boyd, Bridgewater, Murray are available do you pass on them just because you need more evaluation?

Certainly not. The NFL is rapidly becoming big-league Arena Football. Folks chuckled at Crazy Dan when he drafted Griffin and Cousins.

[RedEyE]

But hey, what do I know? I'm just some random ******* stranger on a message board!

Finally you're starting to make some sense.

[Mr. Pink]

Finally you're starting to make some sense.

Of course my opinion is meaningless because it doesn't agree with the people in charge who've made a mockery of professional football in Buffalo for the past 14 years. But your opinion is all seeing, all knowing because you think they're doing the right thing and we need to evaluate!

[John Doe]

Nothing is going to keep Lewis from playing next week.

What a dream for this kid to go home to Miami and play in front of friends and family against the home-town team.

[IAG]

Nothing is going to keep Lewis from playing next week.

What a dream for this kid to go home to Miami and play in front of friends and family against the home-town team.

He is going to ball and get the win. I think he starts a controversy because of his play. I think it is Manual's team, but I hope that Lewis play so well that there is tough decision to make.

[Meathead]

if he doesnt fumble thats a terrific game for any qb in the league. extremely impressive considering the circumstances

i hope it wasnt just a flash in the pan but that one performance so far suggests the bills found the proverbial diamond in the lindy ruff. he almost could not have done better in his second career start and first for the bills

honestly i cant wait to see him play again. to me he looks like the black russell wilson except that russell is also black so hes another wilson who happens to be also black. the important point here is he was good enough to start every week at that level so lets pray it continues

[gebobs]

if he doesnt fumble thats a terrific game for any qb in the league. extremely impressive considering the circumstances

i hope it wasnt just a flash in the pan but that one performance so far suggests the bills found the proverbial diamond in the lindy ruff. he almost could not have done better in his second career start and first for the bills

honestly i cant wait to see him play again. to me he looks like the black russell wilson except that russell is also black so hes another wilson who happens to be also black. the important point here is he was good enough to start every week at that level so lets pray it continues

I used to look forward to your posts. No more. They're like the Zone version of Django Unchained. Start out interesting then its niger, niger, niger and any point you made earlier is lost in a cloud of trollery.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Gonna say it, this is still EJ's team. Yes, I know I know we want to win now. However, this team is at best a 6-10 squad this year. We, however, know we have a good backup in Lewis. However, starting him longterm will be nothing more than the second coming of Fitz. Give EJ till next year. That being said, Lewis played a hell of second half yesterday.

[Bill Cody]

But hey, what do I know? I'm just some random ******* stranger on a message board!

Exactly

[starrymessenger]

Show us the PROOF of your evidence. In court you have to SHOW the evidence, not make idle claims of evidence that don't exist.

And while some of your points may exist on occasion, you have no evidence they can't be fixed with some coaching & experience.
Well it's all pretty much what we've all seen with the evidence of our eyes - it's like the ocular eye witness type proof. Pretty much the best evidence you can have I would hav thought.
As for whether all of this is correctable with coaching, that's what this FO and coaching staff have been banking on all along. If they are right great. If they are wrong EJ will just be another guy who had all the tools but was unable to use them. There have been many many guys just like that.

[justasportsfan]

Well it's all pretty much what we've all seen with the evidence of our eyes - it's like the ocular eye witness type proof. Pretty much the best evidence you can have I would hav thought.
As for whether all of this is correctable with coaching, that's what this FO and coaching staff have been banking on all along. If they are right great. If they are wrong EJ will just be another guy who had all the tools but was unable to use them. There have been many many guys just like that.

I worry that his ceiling may end up being Jason Campbell.

[gebobs]

Well it's all pretty much what we've all seen with the evidence of our eyes - it's like the ocular eye witness type proof. Pretty much the best evidence you can have I would hav thought.
Actually, it's probably the worst.

[starrymessenger]

Actually, it's probably the worst.

Yes eye witness evidence has on occasion been proven unreliable - sometimes the circumstances are not ideal for this type of proof, people make mistakes or the witness is suspect or has an agenda. But when millions of people are clearly seeing the same thing, and you have the benefit of reviewing the live action in different ways, it's actually pretty reliable and pretty much what everyone bases their opinion on. Of course two people seeing the same thing can still interpret what they see differently. Personally I have no issue with Mike's list and I doubt that any reasonable observer could disagree with it.

[Meathead]

I used to look forward to your posts. No more. They're like the Zone version of Django Unchained. Start out interesting then its niger, niger, niger and any point you made earlier is lost in a cloud of trollery.

this response should be automatically triggering in your head by now, but of course the real point to ponder is whats going on in someones (in this case your) head that makes it bother them so much

honestly, thanks for pointing it out. being honest about your dysfunction helps everyone. your goal now is to graduate beyond it

[Meathead]

(overly aggressive total denial in 3, 2, ...)

[Meathead]

since we are going to end up here in a few posts anyway, just let me be proactive ...

i make redneck references at a ratio of probably 2 to 1 that i do black references. exactly why do you choose this one over the other?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

FFS Meathead, will you drop the racial crusader act? It's the most tiresome thing on this board.

[stuckincincy]

FFS Meathead, will you drop the racial crusader act? It's the most tiresome thing on this board.

It's fine with me. Reality bites.

[gebobs]

this response should be automatically triggering in your head by now, but of course the real point to ponder is whats going on in someones (in this case your) head that makes it bother them so much

honestly, thanks for pointing it out. being honest about your dysfunction helps everyone. your goal now is to graduate beyond it
Look. I get it. You're trying to teach us all a lesson. Thanks, but you and shiva can keep that stuff to yourselves.

The reason it bothers me so much has nothing to do with what I feel about race relations and everything to do with it being so so played. It's almost as bad as spikes lame BUTT pun, etc.

Was that too aggressive for you?

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I worry that his ceiling may end up being Jason Campbell.

lets hope not

[TacklingDummy]

I worry that his ceiling may end up being Jason Campbell.

I think his ceiling is as high as Akili Smith.

[Mr. Pink]

I think his ceiling is as high as Akili Smith.

I said he reminds me of Akili Smith a couple weeks ago and was attacked. LOL

[TheBrownBear]

I think his ceiling is as high as Akili Smith.

Wow. I watched Akili Smith quite a bit in college and that's actually a pretty accurate comparison. That's very much who Manuel reminds me of.

[WagonCircler]

It ends up being a black/white discussion, but it's not the point. The exception that proves the rule will be Manziel. He has both skill sets (pocket passer & running QB), but he may be such an idiot that he turns into Ryan Leaf. He also might end up being hurt and ineffective like RGIII who is a very similar player.

The argument comes down to this: Braniac/Accurate passers who are like fighter pilots in their awareness of what's going on around them vs. extremely quick, fast basketball type athletes who are not traditional (see accurate) passers.

The only person I can really think of who is a pure combination of both was Steve Young.

That type of hybrid player is the rarest of the rare. Elway was close, in that he could run, but not like the running QBs currently in the read option.

Warren Moon was a prolific passer, but not really a runner in the read option mold either.

So, since a player who embodies both sides of the argument equally is basically a unicorn, the argument becomes Peyton Manning vs. Michael Vick.

I think it's fair to say that these two players exemplify the pocket passer vs the running QB perfectly.

I'll let the rest of the argument speak for itself.

[Mr. Pink]

It ends up being a black/white discussion, but it's not the point. The exception that proves the rule will be Manziel. He has both skill sets (pocket passer & running QB), but he may be such an idiot that he turns into Ryan Leaf. He also might end up being hurt and ineffective like RGIII who is a very similar player.

The argument comes down to this: Braniac/Accurate passers who are like fighter pilots in their awareness of what's going on around them vs. extremely quick, fast basketball type athletes who are not traditional (see accurate) passers.

The only person I can really think of who is a pure combination of both was Steve Young.

That type of hybrid player is the rarest of the rare. Elway was close, in that he could run, but not like the running QBs currently in the read option.

Warren Moon was a prolific passer, but not really a runner in the read option mold either.

So, since a player who embodies both sides of the argument equally is basically a unicorn, the argument becomes Peyton Manning vs. Michael Vick.

I think it's fair to say that these two players exemplify the pocket passer vs the running QB perfectly.

I'll let the rest of the argument speak for itself.

Why do you go out and pick a future HOF QB for your argument on your side?

Why not go with Fran Tarkenton vs Joe Montana?

Steve Young vs Peyton Manning?

John Elway vs Tom Brady?

Randall Cunningham vs Drew Brees?

Oh wait, because if you go with any of those examples your pocket passer vs running QB argument is weakened.

[WagonCircler]

Why do you go out and pick a future HOF QB for your argument on your side?

Why not go with Fran Tarkenton vs Joe Montana?

Steve Young vs Peyton Manning?

John Elway vs Tom Brady?

Randall Cunningham vs Drew Brees?

Oh wait, because if you go with any of those examples your pocket passer vs running QB argument is weakened.

Wait...WHAT?

The fact is, NOT ONE of those guys was the type of running QB that we're seeing all over the league right now, not even Cunningham once he wised up.

Your examples are all Quarterbacks who could run. None of the were "Running QBs" like Vick or Scam Newton.

And you know why I didn't use a Hall of Fame example of THAT type of QB? Because there are none.

By the way, fill in anybody vs Peyton, and Peyton wins.

[TacklingDummy]

EJ is more of a Marcus Vick then a Michael Vick.

[better days]

EJ is more of a Marcus Vick then a Michael Vick.

NO comparison between EJ & Marcus Vick. Marcus is an IDIOT & not much of a leader.

EJ is not only SMART, but is a LEADER as well. EJ is not as bad as you make him out to be. 5 TD's in 5 games with 3 INT's & a 56.7 CMP%

[TigerJ]

My position on the Bills' QB situation.

1. It's too early to rule Manuel out as the starter, once he's healthy again.

2. Thad Lewis is clearly an asset, whether he stays on as starter or moves to a backup role once Manuel is healthy.

3. The play of Thad Lewis takes the pressure off the Bills regarding starting Manuel before he's fully recovered. There is no reason to do that.

4. It's too early to rule out Jeff Tuel as having a future in Buffalo.

5. Matt Flynn is an insurance policthat Buffalo likely will never have to cash in.

6. The Bills will be more comfortable with their QB situation going into the season in 2014 than they have been in years.

[gebobs]

My position on the Bills' QB situation.

1. It's too early to rule Manuel out as the starter, once he's healthy again.

2. Thad Lewis is clearly an asset, whether he stays on as starter or moves to a backup role once Manuel is healthy.

3. The play of Thad Lewis takes the pressure off the Bills regarding starting Manuel before he's fully recovered. There is no reason to do that.

4. It's too early to rule out Jeff Tuel as having a future in Buffalo.

5. Matt Flynn is an insurance policthat Buffalo likely will never have to cash in.

6. The Bills will be more comfortable with their QB situation going into the season in 2014 than they have been in years.
1. Is anyone saying that? Once he's healthy, we go with him I say. Big investment there. He needs to polish up his game.
2. Backup.
3. Sure.
4. I wouldn't bat an eye about getting rid of him. The Sabres have a better chance of winning a World Series than Tuel has of developing into anything.
5. No? Is Lewis ok to play?

[justasportsfan]

I will repeat what Marrone said "we are in the business of production". If Thad produces and EJ doesn't .... I don't care where you were drafted.

[better days]

I will repeat what Marrone said "we are in the business of production". If Thad produces and EJ doesn't .... I don't care where you were drafted.

If Thad blows the doors off, absolutely he should start, I just don't see that happening.

I think our best hope is Thad is Frank Reich 2.0

[justasportsfan]

If Thad blows the doors off, absolutely he should start, I just don't see that happening.

I think our best hope is Thad is Frank Reich 2.0

I'm all for that if EJ is Kelly 2.0

[Meathead]

The reason it bothers me so much has nothing to do with what I feel about race relations and everything to do with it being so so played. It's almost as bad as spikes lame BUTT pun, etc.


you perceive it as being played out. if thats the case, they why dont you criticize me for redneck jokes? go ahead and do a random count. i make redneck jokes ALL THE FREAKING TIME. not ONCE never ever never has anyone said 'mh im so tired of your redneck jokes'

the fact that you percieve a few harmless black jokes to be too many but even more redneck jokes to be no problem at all IS THE ACTUAL ROOT OF THE PROBLEM

you and a ton of americans have special rules for how we talk about black folks. and in this case 'special' means 'really reeally bad'. just bc the majority dont see anything wrong with it doesnt mean it isnt tremendously harmful to our culture, which it is. at one point ppl didnt see anything wrong with blacks and women not voting, but now we all know those things were tremendously bad for our culture and would never think about going back to that

we are at the same kind of place with this special treatment for black ppl problem. trayvon martin was a perfect example. another perfect example is right here, how you see nothing wrong with redneck jokes, but somehow you get easily fatigued at a much lower rate of benign black jokes

who exactly has the unhealthy bias here? i say very definitively that ppl who object to one form of humor and not another simply based on the target race not only are the ones with the problem, they actively propagate that problem with their blind objections to only one side of it

like ive said many times, i will NEVER stop until the culture at large recognized this massive dysfunction. doesnt matter how many sheeple gang up to give you thanks for setting that jerk meathead straight. 'most people' doesnt mean 'morally justified'. in this game, logic and reason is the only thing that wins in the long run, and my logic and reason is impeccable

ive been doing this for several decades and although progress has been excruciatingly slow, it is being made. this is how i do my part. and youre welcome

[Mr. Pink]

If Thad blows the doors off, absolutely he should start, I just don't see that happening.

I think our best hope is Thad is Frank Reich 2.0

As much as I think EJ is garbage and that Thad is better, if we're out of playoff contention come the time EJ is healthy, EJ should be put back into the starting role. There's an investment on EJ which there isn't on Thad. Plus I don't think either guy is gonna get you to where you eventually need to be so I'd rather EJ go back out there and keep showing he's not the guy so maybe, MAYBE, we don't pass over a guy like Murray, Boyd or Bridgewater in April.

[WagonCircler]

you perceive it as being played out. if thats the case, they why dont you criticize me for redneck jokes? go ahead and do a random count. i make redneck jokes ALL THE FREAKING TIME. not ONCE never ever never has anyone said 'mh im so tired of your redneck jokes'

Good Lord. You don't make ANY jokes. Jokes are, by definition, FUNNY.

You play at making jokes in order to forward whatever bizarre agenda you're trying to communicate in order to make yourself feel better about whatever the hell it is you need to make yourself feel better about.

For the rest of us, it's way worse than played out and tired. It's creepy as hell.

How about doing your part and shutting the ******* up? Maybe talk the powers that be into starting a race forum where you can engage in all the weird ass verbal masturbation you want without making the rest of us nauseous.

[WagonCircler]

NO comparison between EJ & Marcus Vick. Marcus is an IDIOT & not much of a leader.

EJ is not only SMART, but is a LEADER as well. EJ is not as bad as you make him out to be. 5 TD's in 5 games with 3 INT's & a 56.7 CMP%

EJ is about as good as it gets in all of those categories. You really couldn't ask for more in the leader/smart/good guy department.

I just wish he could hit the broad side of a barn more than 3 times a game and that he'd take better care of the football.

[better days]

As much as I think EJ is garbage and that Thad is better, if we're out of playoff contention come the time EJ is healthy, EJ should be put back into the starting role. There's an investment on EJ which there isn't on Thad. Plus I don't think either guy is gonna get you to where you eventually need to be so I'd rather EJ go back out there and keep showing he's not the guy so maybe, MAYBE, we don't pass over a guy like Murray, Boyd or Bridgewater in April.

well, except so far, EJ has shown he is the guy. If he keeps playing as he has, he will get every chance next year to be the starter, but if Whaley & the scouts think they can get a better QB than EJ in the draft, I am all for it & let them compete.

[BillsFever21]

NO comparison between EJ & Marcus Vick. Marcus is an IDIOT & not much of a leader.

EJ is not only SMART, but is a LEADER as well. EJ is not as bad as you make him out to be. 5 TD's in 5 games with 3 INT's & a 56.7 CMP%

I'm not a Manuel hater but to act like 5 TD's, 3 INT's, 2 fumbles and a completion percentage of 56.7% is good is a little too much. If being on pace for 3,152 passing yards with 16 TD's, 16 turnovers and a completion percentage of 56.7% is considered good then you really set the bar low. Not to mention having two separate knee injuries in a 7 week span. Even Fitzpatrick had better numbers then that and also stayed healthy.

[better days]

I'm not a Manuel hater but to act like 5 TD's, 3 INT's, 2 fumbles and a completion percentage of 56.7% is good is a little too much. If being on pace for 3,152 passing yards with 16 TD's, 16 turnovers and a completion percentage of 56.7% is considered good then you really set the bar low. Not to mention having two separate knee injuries in a 7 week span. Even Fitzpatrick had better numbers then that and also stayed healthy.

I didn't realize Fitz was a ROOKIE. I think those are decent numbers for a Rookie & they are Far better than Trent Edwards ever had.

[TacklingDummy]

EJ will come back, get injured again. Classic Rob Johnsonish.

[RedEyE]

This thread flows like Michael J Fox on roller skates.

[stuckincincy]

This thread flows like Michael J Fox on roller skates.

In campaign (off meds) mode or non-campaign (on meds) mode?

[gebobs]

they are Far better than Trent Edwards ever had.Speaking of setting the bar low.

[better days]

Speaking of setting the bar low.

Well, Trent had MANY fans that did just that. I'm not saying EJ does not need to improve as he gets experience, I'm saying he is doing fine for a ROOKIE.

[feldspar]

you perceive it as being played out. if thats the case, they why dont you criticize me for redneck jokes? go ahead and do a random count. i make redneck jokes ALL THE FREAKING TIME. not ONCE never ever never has anyone said 'mh im so tired of your redneck jokes'

the fact that you percieve a few harmless black jokes to be too many but even more redneck jokes to be no problem at all IS THE ACTUAL ROOT OF THE PROBLEM

you and a ton of americans have special rules for how we talk about black folks. and in this case 'special' means 'really reeally bad'. just bc the majority dont see anything wrong with it doesnt mean it isnt tremendously harmful to our culture, which it is. at one point ppl didnt see anything wrong with blacks and women not voting, but now we all know those things were tremendously bad for our culture and would never think about going back to that

we are at the same kind of place with this special treatment for black ppl problem. trayvon martin was a perfect example. another perfect example is right here, how you see nothing wrong with redneck jokes, but somehow you get easily fatigued at a much lower rate of benign black jokes

who exactly has the unhealthy bias here? i say very definitively that ppl who object to one form of humor and not another simply based on the target race not only are the ones with the problem, they actively propagate that problem with their blind objections to only one side of it

like ive said many times, i will NEVER stop until the culture at large recognized this massive dysfunction. doesnt matter how many sheeple gang up to give you thanks for setting that jerk meathead straight. 'most people' doesnt mean 'morally justified'. in this game, logic and reason is the only thing that wins in the long run, and my logic and reason is impeccable

ive been doing this for several decades and although progress has been excruciatingly slow, it is being made. this is how i do my part. and youre welcome

The particular problem most people have with you here has nothing to do with humor, race, or anything you think it does. The problem is YOU, and that nobody is interested in hearing you preach from your soapbox. Anybody that has spent time here or the "other board" knows that you are just gushing to bait people into giving you an excuse to rant back into your rhetoric once again...this post that I'm quoting is glaring proof. It's THAT that people find annoying about YOU, and that's what you fail to understand. It's clear what your ulterior motives are with these "jokes." You LOVE it when people complain about them. Absolutely love it. Admit it. Of course, nobody else really cares to hear about it on this board.

If you have a special affinity for black people for some reason, then so what? Go somewhere else with this old crap.

Certified blacksocologist...

[Bill Cody]

I'm not a Manuel hater but to act like 5 TD's, 3 INT's, 2 fumbles and a completion percentage of 56.7% is good is a little too much. If being on pace for 3,152 passing yards with 16 TD's, 16 turnovers and a completion percentage of 56.7% is considered good then you really set the bar low. Not to mention having two separate knee injuries in a 7 week span. Even Fitzpatrick had better numbers then that and also stayed healthy.

Are you a Peyton Manning hater? Look up his completion percentage and INT's his 1st season, then get back to me about how low the bar is.

Rookie QB in his 1st 4 games and you people already have him all figured out? Um...no.

[stuckincincy]

The particular problem most people have with you here has nothing to do with humor, race, or anything you think it does. The problem is YOU, and that nobody is interested in hearing you preach from your soapbox. Anybody that has spent time here or the "other board" knows that you are just gushing to bait people into giving you an excuse to rant back into your rhetoric once again...this post that I'm quoting is glaring proof. It's THAT that people find annoying about YOU, and that's what you fail to understand. It's clear what your ulterior motives are with these "jokes." You LOVE it when people complain about them. Absolutely love it. Admit it. Of course, nobody else really cares to hear about it on this board.

If you have a special affinity for black people for some reason, then so what? Go somewhere else with this old crap.

Certified blacksocologist...

This is a rude post.

A snotty and ignorant one, too. You must have zero experience observing the horrible things that the party of the Jim Crow laws have worked for, for so many years upon black Americans. Faubus, Wallace, Long, Al Gore Sr., Lyndon Johnson, Maddux. I don't need to go on. Speaking of the Jim Crow laws - do you know about the Hayes - Tilden race, and the compromise that ended Reconstruction? I hope you do. Doubt it.

Any honest look at crime stats leaves one with a conclusion - blacks commit crimes far out of proportion. So why is that? Is it ethnic? Is it genetic?
A party - that old one - who, in order to get those votes, takes steps to pour out $ from the public taxpayer coffers, busses on election day, demonizes any opposition, and most importantly, took steps to remove a person's dignity. And so, monsters were and are created.

If you haven't walked his walk, apologize to meathead.

[feldspar]

This is a rude post.

A snotty and ignorant one, too. You must have zero experience observing the horrible things that the party of the Jim Crow laws have worked for, for so many years upon black Americans. Faubus, Wallace, Long, Al Gore Sr., Lyndon Johnson, Maddux. I don't need to go on. Speaking of the Jim Crow laws - do you know about the Hayes - Tilden race, and the compromise that ended Reconstruction? I hope you do. Doubt it.

Any honest look at crime stats leaves one with a conclusion - blacks commit crimes far out of proportion. So why is that? Is it ethnic? Is it genetic?
A party - that old one - who, in order to get those votes, takes steps to pour out $ from the public taxpayer coffers, busses on election day, demonizes any opposition, and most importantly, took steps to remove a person's dignity. And so, monsters were and are created.

If you haven't walked his walk, apologize to meathead.

That wasn't a rude post...I'll show you a rude post pretty soon, though. Apparently you didn't understand it either, because I was saying that this isn't the place for those types of discussions, and you went ahead and pursued it anyway, so go to those places if you want to talk about that. There are plenty of forums out there where such topics are relevant. Not on a Bills board.

And Meathead ain't black. If he was, I still wouldn't want to hear it IN A FOOTBALL FORUM.

[GvilleBills]

The problem isn't with the spirit of Meathead's agenda, it's where he chooses to set up his soapbox.

[stuckincincy]

That wasn't a rude post...I'll show you a rude post pretty soon, though. Apparently you didn't understand it either, because I was saying that this isn't the place for those types of discussions, and you went ahead and pursued it anyway, so go to those places if you want to talk about that. There are plenty of forums out there where such topics are relevant. Not on a Bills board.

And Meathead ain't black. If he was, I still wouldn't want to hear it IN A FOOTBALL FORUM.

AFIIK, you are the sole poster to snip at meathead in this thread, save the normal complement of ankle biters that generally chime in. You toss up the strawman - IN A FOOTBALL FORUM. At the end of your post. Thsat's the was it's done. That I support meatheads words, added to them, irks yo.u

Stating that "it's a football forum" crap, on a site that has existed for over ten years, and well known to accommodate a level of societal and political bent on its' main section is a bit iffy, Eh? Tolerance.

If you want to start a rude contest with me, so be it. My vocabulary is large and ancient. It's best that we bury this hatchet, though. Toss the gaunlets down today, pick them up another day.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The problem isn't with the spirit of Meathead's agenda, it's where he chooses to set up his soapbox.

No, the problem is his flagrant trolling.

[stuckincincy]

No, the problem is his flagrant trolling.

What trolling? Trolling for what? Don't recall him dissing BUF, quite the contrary.

[Meathead]

And Meathead ain't black. If he was, I still wouldn't want to hear it IN A FOOTBALL FORUM.

again, why have you not once nor anyone else every complained about redneck jokes?

its so obvious, nobody ever answers it, so it just sits out there like a big matzo ball of illogic and confusion

just give me a reason. for your point to have any validity you have to provide a logical explanation for that exact dichotomy

[Meathead]

bc in your mind you like so many other ppl say 'bc thats the way weve always done it'. this is a learned behavior on your part, you were programmed to be offended at humorous references for one color, but not another

the bias is right there for everyone to see. yet the selective attention continues

who exactly has the problem?

[Meathead]

and of course, this is EXACTLY the place for those types of discussions bc this is the EXACT place where your bias shows

what you want is for me to take this to someplace like prs or whatever we call it here. meanwhile, you will never object to my redneck references here, so you are forcing only one pattern of behavior elsewhere

just think about that. really think about it. and see how completely fkd up that really is

[GvilleBills]

Fwiw, I love a humorous reference. I've always felt that if you can laugh at yourself, you can laugh at anything.
Meat, your act of laying out joke (bait) and then jumping on the soapbox if someone stumbles into your trap is the issue.Been your MO for the 6 years I've read you. You load your posts with your agenda. There was a specific place for that at " the other forum". Since that's not the case here, so be it.

I still maintain that there's no problem with your spirit, it's your delivery.

[GvilleBills]

and of course, this is EXACTLY the place for those types of discussions bc this is the EXACT place where your bias shows

what you want is for me to take this to someplace like prs or whatever we call it here. meanwhile, you will never object to my redneck references here, so you are forcing only one pattern of behavior elsewhere

just think about that. really think about it. and see how completely fkd up that really is

From where I stand, I don't object to the joke-bait. All that does is bring on the sermon. Having seen this play out many times, it's " here he goes again".

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What trolling? Trolling for what? Don't recall him dissing BUF, quite the contrary.

Do you know what trolling is? It's baiting people on a forum to get a reaction, which is exactly what he does and brags about doing.


you perceive it as being played out. if thats the case, they why dont you criticize me for redneck jokes? go ahead and do a random count. i make redneck jokes ALL THE FREAKING TIME. not ONCE never ever never has anyone said 'mh im so tired of your redneck jokes'

the fact that you percieve a few harmless black jokes to be too many but even more redneck jokes to be no problem at all IS THE ACTUAL ROOT OF THE PROBLEM

you and a ton of americans have special rules for how we talk about black folks. and in this case 'special' means 'really reeally bad'. just bc the majority dont see anything wrong with it doesnt mean it isnt tremendously harmful to our culture, which it is. at one point ppl didnt see anything wrong with blacks and women not voting, but now we all know those things were tremendously bad for our culture and would never think about going back to that

we are at the same kind of place with this special treatment for black ppl problem. trayvon martin was a perfect example. another perfect example is right here, how you see nothing wrong with redneck jokes, but somehow you get easily fatigued at a much lower rate of benign black jokes

who exactly has the unhealthy bias here? i say very definitively that ppl who object to one form of humor and not another simply based on the target race not only are the ones with the problem, they actively propagate that problem with their blind objections to only one side of it

like ive said many times, i will NEVER stop until the culture at large recognized this massive dysfunction. doesnt matter how many sheeple gang up to give you thanks for setting that jerk meathead straight. 'most people' doesnt mean 'morally justified'. in this game, logic and reason is the only thing that wins in the long run, and my logic and reason is impeccable

ive been doing this for several decades and although progress has been excruciatingly slow, it is being made. this is how i do my part. and youre welcome
^^^^ This post is a textbook example.

[feldspar]

AFIIK, you are the sole poster to snip at meathead in this thread, save the normal complement of ankle biters that generally chime in. You toss up the strawman - IN A FOOTBALL FORUM. At the end of your post. Thsat's the was it's done. That I support meatheads words, added to them, irks yo.u

Stating that "it's a football forum" crap, on a site that has existed for over ten years, and well known to accommodate a level of societal and political bent on its' main section is a bit iffy, Eh? Tolerance.

If you want to start a rude contest with me, so be it. My vocabulary is large and ancient. It's best that we bury this hatchet, though. Toss the gaunlets down today, pick them up another day.

Apparently, you are not familiar with Meathead's handiwork over at the Buffalo Range. Just to let you know, the others that expressed general annoyance at his tactics were longtime regulars over there.

I'm talking about doing things like starting threads saying "these three players were busted for smoking marijuana. What do they have in common?" Of course, the thing they have in common was that they were all black. That was the premise of the thread, which was geared toward baiting people and trapping them into his "education" agenda.

It's trolling, and it's annoying, and that's all I have to say about that. I'm not all bent out of shape about it, and I don't care if you agree with him or not.

[GvilleBills]

I can't believe I fed into another of the thread hijackings.

[YardRat]

I heart Meathead.

[Meathead]

the others that expressed general annoyance at his tactics were longtime regulars over there.


so here we have the veiled 'most ppl' reference. it says in essence 'im not the only one who feels this way, lots of people feel this way, and that means we have the numbers to show that we are right in our views'. it is also a direct precursor to the effort to squelch the dissenter

this is the exactly the type of group behavior that has resulted in the most horrific ungodly acts man has repeatedly committed against his brothers. it is a disease of the mind that allows all the forms of oppression we have seen countless times in history to be manifest

how does any one individual stand up against this kind of mob mentality? you cant only just talk gently and logically bc you will never get the attention of the mob and its individual members. you have to do something to stoke them, to poke them in the ribs (or the eye) a little, to rouse their irrational emotions. thats the only way you can get them out of their dysfuctional pattern, even temporarily, in order to inject a new view that might possibly germinate and changet the course of the disease

you and others call it 'annoying'. great provacateurs call it 'civil disobedience'

i very intentionally try to annoy the reader with this stuff. the really cool thing is the stuff i use is completely benign. there isnt an ounce of real racism in anything i do. which makes it all the more astonishing that the reaction i receive is often so negative

you would think that would immediately tell you something, but the amazing this is that it doesnt. so i make some little benign black joke, it 'annoys' you, but you never stop to wonder 'hey why am i so annoyed? what exactly did mh say thats gets me so worked up?'

and again, you nor anyone else has answered the question at the center of this exercise: why are you only sensitive to the benign black references when you would let unlimited redneck references go by without even a thought that they might be inappropriate? one type of reference annoys you, the other has no effect

hmmmm

[better days]

so here we have the veiled 'most ppl' reference. it says in essence 'im not the only one who feels this way, lots of people feel this way, and that means we have the numbers to show that we are right in our views'. it is also a direct precursor to the effort to squelch the dissenter

this is the exactly the type of group behavior that has resulted in the most horrific ungodly acts man has repeatedly committed against his brothers. it is a disease of the mind that allows all the forms of oppression we have seen countless times in history to be manifest

how does any one individual stand up against this kind of mob mentality? you cant only just talk gently and logically bc you will never get the attention of the mob and its individual members. you have to do something to stoke them, to poke them in the ribs (or the eye) a little, to rouse their irrational emotions. thats the only way you can get them out of their dysfuctional pattern, even temporarily, in order to inject a new view that might possibly germinate and changet the course of the disease

you and others call it 'annoying'. great provacateurs call it 'civil disobedience'

i very intentionally try to annoy the reader with this stuff. the really cool thing is the stuff i use is completely benign. there isnt an ounce of real racism in anything i do. which makes it all the more astonishing that the reaction i receive is often so negative

you would think that would immediately tell you something, but the amazing this is that it doesnt. so i make some little benign black joke, it 'annoys' you, but you never stop to wonder 'hey why am i so annoyed? what exactly did mh say thats gets me so worked up?'

and again, you nor anyone else has answered the question at the center of this exercise: why are you only sensitive to the benign black references when you would let unlimited redneck references go by without even a thought that they might be inappropriate? one type of reference annoys you, the other has no effect

hmmmm

Well, the first paragraph sounds like Op wrote it.

[feldspar]

this is the exactly the type of group behavior that has resulted in the most horrific ungodly acts man has repeatedly committed against his brothers. it is a disease of the mind that allows all the forms of oppression we have seen countless times in history to be manifest

Ha, ha. STFU drama queen.



i very intentionally try to annoy the reader with this stuff.

That's the annoying part in a nutshell, Meathead. Thank you for admitting it. You have succeeded in your divine quest to annoy me, only it's for reasons that you have not intended. You fancy yourself a "great provocateur," when all you are doing is trolling a football message board. This is not disputable, as you just described the very definition of trolling...."I very intentionally try to annoy the reader with this stuff." Now google what a troll is. Then look in the mirror.


the really cool thing is the stuff i use is completely benign. there isnt an ounce of real racism in anything i do. which makes it all the more astonishing that the reaction i receive is often so negative

Yeah, it's really incomprehensible that you should encounter a negative reaction when you are trolling. Really hard to understand.


you would think that would immediately tell you something, but the amazing this is that it doesnt. so i make some little benign black joke, it 'annoys' you, but you never stop to wonder 'hey why am i so annoyed? what exactly did mh say thats gets me so worked up?'

I'm annoyed because you are trolling. You can't understand that? YOU should stop to think why people are annoyed when you deliberately try to annoy them. It ain't about race at all. It ain't the "jokes," it's the obvious pathetic ulterior motives behind them...they are all set-ups to annoy people so you can pounce yet again. That's called trolling. Race-related humor does not offend me as long as it's not malicious...it's not about that at all.


and again, you nor anyone else has answered the question at the center of this exercise: why are you only sensitive to the benign black references when you would let unlimited redneck references go by without even a thought that they might be inappropriate? one type of reference annoys you, the other has no effect

hmmmm

Yeah, that's very thought-provoking Meathead...and also moronic. The answer to your "central question" is that I am annoyed by your redneck jokes too. You often don't tell jokes to be funny per-se (and they usually aren't even funny), but to set people up to trigger your race-related rant. You are actually disappointed when people don't take the bait and have admitted as much before.

It's not the content or the message, it's the trolling tactics and the cry for attention. It's the hijacking of threads. It's the trolling...do you understand that, FINALLY? Of course, you'll come back saying something else about race, entirely missing the whole point yet again...

[JCBills]

As much as I think EJ is garbage and that Thad is better, if we're out of playoff contention come the time EJ is healthy, EJ should be put back into the starting role. There's an investment on EJ which there isn't on Thad. Plus I don't think either guy is gonna get you to where you eventually need to be so I'd rather EJ go back out there and keep showing he's not the guy so maybe, MAYBE, we don't pass over a guy like Murray, Boyd or Bridgewater in April.

Unless Boyd and Murray are able to pull a Russell Wilson / Drew Brees type move off, they won't translate to the pro game. I'm not speaking in defining terms, but the odds are against them being productive. Bridgewater looks to be a different beast, but of course we won't know who they are until they hit the field in the NFL and have an adequate sample size. I think people have been somewhat blinded recently by rookie QBs coming in and lighting it up. Luck and RG3 come to mind instantly when you look at some of the recent young success. Kaepernick saw serious action his second year and killed it. The thing is though, that isn't the norm. QBs often need time to adjust to the pro game, and I'm not trying to make this an excuse. Some of the best ever took time to develop before establishing themselves. EJ has impressed me so far to an extent. He hasn't taken over a game yet, which is still a rare feat for most young QBs. Also consider the fact that his supporting cast is also in their 1st year with this scheme, and this is the 3rd youngest team in the NFL. Peyton Manning was on record INT pace in the early stages of his rookie career and didn't look like he was going to pan out. Aaron Rodgers was a backup for 3 seasons before becoming one of the best QBs in football and winning a superbowl. I know we haven't had a QB since the 90s, but we can't crucify our investment in what looks to be a talented QB just because the soup patch kids want to piss and moan. I have a hard time poo-pooing their efforts with what I've seen so far. Any reasonable fan knows things take time. No construct can be built without a reliable foundation.

[gebobs]

you perceive it as being played out. if thats the case, they why dont you criticize me for redneck jokes?
Frankly, I haven't seen them. All I see is niger niger niger from you.

You think I'm overly sensitive to criticisms of black people or whatever. Go blow it out your arse, Sigmund. I don't need your psychoanalysis and you sure as fark aren't qualified to give it.

We need lees people acting like shiva. Not more. Coastal does it too.

[gebobs]

AFIIK, you are the sole poster to snip at meathead in this thread
Let me clear that up. I think I'm the one that started it. And I stand by it.

[GvilleBills]

All this does is feed into his MASSIVE ego. That's the point, under the benevolent guise of the "great provacateur".
Self serving at its finest. And nothing will change.

[Meathead]

Meat, your act of laying out joke (bait) and then jumping on the soapbox if someone stumbles into your trap is the issue.Been your MO for the 6 years I've read you. You load your posts with your agenda.

very definitely done exactly that way on purpose

the most awesome thing about my technique is that its self-correcting. if you dont have a dysfunctional problem with race you will just read right on past those references, just like everybody does to my redneck references. if you are dysfunctional on the issue of race you will suddenly find that one element of my commentary unable to pass up and you will be compelled to attack me

its their own thought system that gets exposed by their own behavior

hell, i make just as many jokes about red haired white males as i do about blacks, and nobody EVER has been offended by those either

[Meathead]

That's the annoying part in a nutshell, Meathead. Thank you for admitting it. You have succeeded in your divine quest to annoy me, only it's for reasons that you have not intended. You fancy yourself a "great provocateur," when all you are doing is trolling a football message board. This is not disputable, as you just described the very definition of trolling...."I very intentionally try to annoy the reader with this stuff."

yes, but again the magic of my approach is that if you dont already have a problem in your own head you wont even notice my references to blacks

youre not annoyed at all by redneck jokes

you dont even notice all the red haired white male jokes i make

but comment on a black qb being black and its OMG HES SO ANNOYING

why are you so selective in what annoys you? bc its YOU that has the problem here

god this is so freakin easy and basic but it just keeps whizzing right by you

[Meathead]

Frankly, I haven't seen them. All I see is niger niger niger from you.


man this is so super revealing

not only hasnt seen any of the multitude of redneck jokes i make, but reads a benign joke about black qbs and all he hears is niger niger niger

i mean, i couldnt make up a better example of total race issue dysfunction than that. congrats dude, you are the living perfect example of what im fighting against

[GvilleBills]

very definitely done exactly that way on purpose

the most awesome thing about my technique is that its self-correcting. if you dont have a dysfunctional problem with race you will just read right on past those references, just like everybody does to my redneck references. if you are dysfunctional on the issue of race you will suddenly find that one element of my commentary unable to pass up and you will be compelled to attack me

its their own thought system that gets exposed by their own behavior

hell, i make just as many jokes about red haired white males as i do about blacks, and nobody EVER has been offended by those either
You are a joke dude. I've said time after time, it's your BS delivery. You only reveal your own narcissism with every post.
But keep going, you crusader you. Ive wasted enough time with you.

[feldspar]

yes, but again the magic of my approach is that if you dont already have a problem in your own head you wont even notice my references to blacks

youre not annoyed at all by redneck jokes

you dont even notice all the red haired white male jokes i make

but comment on a black qb being black and its OMG HES SO ANNOYING

why are you so selective in what annoys you? bc its YOU that has the problem here

god this is so freakin easy and basic but it just keeps whizzing right by you

Just as I suspected, you didn't understand a word I said to you. I thought I was pretty clear. Go back and read it again, because I won't repeat it.

What you are doing is transparent to people that have been around Bills boards. And I'll tell you what...it's boring, and I'm not interested. It's annoying because your goal is to provoke stupid discussions like the one we are having now. That was my point. I don't even read your posts anymore. I just chimed in when gebobs said something in this thread.

I'm not annoyed by redneck jokes, but I'm AM annoyed by black jokes? Where did you come up with that? Name an instance. You WANT it to be true because that's what you WANT to see. It's part of the whole set-up. You desperately WANT that to be true, so you project these things onto me and you can be justified to partake in a discussion like THIS one again. I guess it makes you feel important or something. Here's the part where you hope that I'll describe my true feelings about black, rednecks, and such so you can preach from your soapbox...sorry to disappoint you there.The cat is out of the bag about what you are up to, and it annoys people. Trolling annoys people. YOU annoy me.

You talk about the "magic to your approach" and the "awesome thing about your technique." LOL.

My "problem" is not with race, but with TROLLS. Get it?

YOU ARE A TROLL

Plain and simple.

[gebobs]

man this is so super revealing

not only hasnt seen any of the multitude of redneck jokes i make, but reads a benign joke about black qbs and all he hears is niger niger niger

i mean, i couldnt make up a better example of total race issue dysfunction than that. congrats dude, you are the living perfect example of what im fighting against

This may come as a surprise to you, but I'm not on here 24/7 like a lot of you guys. I don't keep up with my own threads much less yours. The only thing revealed here is your self-absorption.

Every post you make here erodes my opinion of you further. This was intended as constructive criticism for a contributor that I respect, but that's becoming less tenable. Obviously, you are immune to criticism and it's only going to harden your position.

[starrymessenger]

What does any of this have to do with Thad Lewis?
oh yeah, I get it, he's black (I actually forgot).
i guess.

[Bill Cody]

What does any of this have to do with Thad Lewis?
oh yeah, I get it, he's black (I actually forgot).
i guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxtixtZzU2c

[stuckincincy]

man this is so super revealing

not only hasnt seen any of the multitude of redneck jokes i make, but reads a benign joke about black qbs and all he hears is niger niger niger

i mean, i couldnt make up a better example of total race issue dysfunction than that. congrats dude, you are the living perfect example of what im fighting against

Yep.

Also, a typical thing is going on. Folks that ***** ***** ***** about another poster's opinion. Use foul language, nasty innuendo, too. Happy to spew at your (and my) right of free speech, and howl if someone calls them on that. If they are so irked, they could invoke the ignore function, and just let it lie - but they don't. Been taught from a toddler that they are special.

I get ageism barbs now and then. Like Ralph. But that's fair game for this crowd. In their propagandized minds, that's ok. Hold up a mirror to their hypocrisy, they will take it from your hand, smash it, and pick up the shards and go for your throat. The seminal influence in their lives is the software programs like Grand Theft Auto. IMO.

These folks who attack you will never understand that a political party created, and that maintains via tax revenues, a significant sub culture that generates physical and mental violence on a daily basis. Which pays handsome, reliable voting dividends. It reaches beyond, too. The occasional feature on the Jay Leno Show - "Jay Walks", boggles. I'm appalled that folks who are dressed well enough and don't show any evidence of malnutrition or mental debility don't know how many States there are, or can't name the current veep. Very sad.

I put posters on Ignore when they repeatedly fling personal attacks. I have responded, offering an amelioration, or suggesting that we got on the wrong foot, etc. Waste of time, mostly.

[BILLSROCK1212]

just want to say that I am kicking rear end with Thad Lewis in Madden

[trapezeus]

I didn't read the fighting in the thread. i am just thinking Thad has maybe two more weeks where the book on how to stop him isn't released. so i am kind of expecting that he'll have another solid outing. he's in his hometown, his friends and family are attending the game, and frankly for as good as miami has been, there are some intriguing holes that can be exploited.

also, a lot of people in the survivor pool are picking miami. it would be two birds and one stone if we knock out the dolphins.

[justasportsfan]

What does any of this have to do with Thad Lewis?
.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCrjLVSapII

[feldspar]

Yep.

Also, a typical thing is going on. Folks that ***** ***** ***** about another poster's opinion. Use foul language, nasty innuendo, too. Happy to spew at your (and my) right of free speech, and howl if someone calls them on that. If they are so irked, they could invoke the ignore function, and just let it lie - but they don't. Been taught from a toddler that they are special.

I get ageism barbs now and then. Like Ralph. But that's fair game for this crowd. In their propagandized minds, that's ok. Hold up a mirror to their hypocrisy, they will take it from your hand, smash it, and pick up the shards and go for your throat. The seminal influence in their lives is the software programs like Grand Theft Auto. IMO.

These folks who attack you will never understand that a political party created, and that maintains via tax revenues, a significant sub culture that generates physical and mental violence on a daily basis. Which pays handsome, reliable voting dividends. It reaches beyond, too. The occasional feature on the Jay Leno Show - "Jay Walks", boggles. I'm appalled that folks who are dressed well enough and don't show any evidence of malnutrition or mental debility don't know how many States there are, or can't name the current veep. Very sad.

I put posters on Ignore when they repeatedly fling personal attacks. I have responded, offering an amelioration, or suggesting that we got on the wrong foot, etc. Waste of time, mostly.

Oh, look. Meathead has a friend. How sweet.

Meathead's M.O. is to crouch in the bushes, waiting to sift out people that he'll be able to judge and "correct" about what he superficially assumes about them based on limited information. Very charming. Meathead is actually laying in wait to ATTACK somebody else...setting them up to do that, in fact. This is the documented truth. Then he's surprised with much chagrin when that scheme backfires by virtue of his trolling. THAT'S the issue and nothing else. This is a football forum, and not a half-assed therapy session.

You talk about hypocrisy while forgetting that freedom of speech applies to the other side, and THAT'S hypocritical. It's not about freedom of speech...it's about trolling. Baiting people about hotspot topics completely unrelated to the topic at hand, something that Meathead (who is aptly named) deliberately does by his own admission. Do it once or twice, then whatever...but constantly doing it to the point of obsession, and that's annoying.

He could choose to spout off about refrigerators constantly, and I wouldn't be any less annoyed. Reading his posts is like answering your door and finding a Jehovah's Witness standing there to enlighten everybody.

I suggest that he travels deep into the ghetto and jokes to random strangers at the bar about how blacks like fried chicken and watermelon, especially when they are high. If they don't like it, then he can logically explain to them how they are ignorant. That should go over well after the white guy shows them his blacksocologist credentials. Or go out to the sticks and good-humoredly mock the rednecks about their sloppy habits and inbred heritage. They won't punch him or anything. They just don't understand, either.

I think it's HIM that needs to be taught a lesson. I'm fine, thank you. The world isn't going to form a circle and sing Kumbaya.

[Jry44]

We overdrafted Manuel in a weak QB class so that automatically makes him better? Really?

So since Manuel is now a 1st round pick because we made him so he has potential and Lewis is just what he is apparently.

Lewis cannot possibly have any potential to improve on what we saw today, which was a hell of a lot better than what we've seen out of Manuel so far, because he wasn't drafted.

Got it! :up:


The sample size on both players is so small that you really don't know what you have in either yet. There are many QB's that have had better games than Lewis's first two games and have turned out to be nothing more than a journeyman back up in this league. To say that one guy is going to have a better career than the other guy at this point is asinine. Like it or not, but EJ being drafted in the first round to be the future of this franchise will keep his job unless he proves 2-3 years down the road that he's not a franchise QB. Let's see what Lewis does now that there is more than one game's worth of film for teams to study on him before we anoint him the starter over EJ....

I just don't get why Bills fans constantly have to feel like they have to side with one player over another when you have two good players at the same position. Last year it was Freddy vs CJ. Now this. Just be happy that we have a really good problem on our hands!

[Meathead]

I suggest that he travels deep into the ghetto and jokes to random strangers at the bar about how blacks like fried chicken and watermelon, especially when they are high. If they don't like it, then he can logically explain to them how they are ignorant. That should go over well after the white guy shows them his blacksocologist credentials. Or go out to the sticks and good-humoredly mock the rednecks about their sloppy habits and inbred heritage.

you should know by now, i do go into the ghetto all the time. and while i dont immediately start talking about fried chicken with totally random strangers, i do routinely have these discussions all the time with black folks. even with a total stranger, just give me a few minutes of conversation time and pretty soon i usually have them comfortable enough that i can say anything i want. im comfortable with ghetto blacks, they can feel it from me, and they respect it

honestly, i get more worried when i go back to my redneck hometown and start talking about that stuff. whites in general simply DO NOT want to talk about this stuff AT ALL. the ones that do usually are the die hard racists, and they absolutely hate it when i challenge them. most blacks will at least sit down and hear you out even if they disagree, the whites are the ones that generally fly off the handle (which is exactly what i prey on here)

but traditional racism isnt the problem anymore for most of white america. blacks on average are far more racist in that old way than whites. where whites are dysfunctional now is with what weve seen right here in this thread - the inability to talk about normal race issues without getting annoyed, plus the divergent interpretation of comments depending on the target race. both forms of racism are bad, but this 'new' racism is our biggest problem bc its so insidious

[Meathead]

Hold up a mirror to their hypocrisy, they will take it from your hand, smash it, and pick up the shards and go for your throat.

that is so perfect im going to steal it and put it into my prepared material

[IlluminatusUIUC]

but traditional racism isnt the problem anymore for most of white america. blacks on average are far more racist in that old way than whites. where whites are dysfunctional now is with what weve seen right here in this thread - the inability to talk about normal race issues without getting annoyed, plus the divergent interpretation of comments depending on the target race. both forms of racism are bad, but this 'new' racism is our biggest problem bc its so insidious

It's not an inability to talk about racial issues, it's about YOU trying to unwillingly cast all of us in Meathead's after school special. It's about this smarmy attitude you have that you have in claiming you are uniquely qualified to speak to these issues, or that you are on some quest to save us. It's about you flagrantly trying to bait people and derail threads.

It's YOU, guy. YOU.

[Jeff1220]

Can you guys just get a room already?

[feldspar]

you should know by now, i do go into the ghetto all the time. and while i dont immediately start talking about fried chicken with totally random strangers, i do routinely have these discussions all the time with black folks. even with a total stranger, just give me a few minutes of conversation time and pretty soon i usually have them comfortable enough that i can say anything i want. im comfortable with ghetto blacks, they can feel it from me, and they respect it

honestly, i get more worried when i go back to my redneck hometown and start talking about that stuff. whites in general simply DO NOT want to talk about this stuff AT ALL. the ones that do usually are the die hard racists, and they absolutely hate it when i challenge them. most blacks will at least sit down and hear you out even if they disagree, the whites are the ones that generally fly off the handle (which is exactly what i prey on here)

but traditional racism isnt the problem anymore for most of white america. blacks on average are far more racist in that old way than whites. where whites are dysfunctional now is with what weve seen right here in this thread - the inability to talk about normal race issues without getting annoyed, plus the divergent interpretation of comments depending on the target race. both forms of racism are bad, but this 'new' racism is our biggest problem bc its so insidious

Own your own issues, Meathead, and don't project them onto other people, especially while baiting random strangers. Control your own behavior. Don't troll the topic, because it's annoying.

Do you have white man's guilt or something? I think you might, considering that you come from a "redneck hometown." You are ashamed of your brethren or something? If so, going on a witch-hunt...what does THAT accomplish? Cuz I think you're on some half-assed witch-hunt. This is the nicest way I can put it...and this is being entirely on the level.

I think you need to lay down on the couch and work this through. But the main point is that I don't give a flying *** WHAT you do about it...it's irrelevant in this forum. This is not what people want to talk about here. Can you understand?

[WagonCircler]

I didn't read the fighting in the thread. i am just thinking Thad has maybe two more weeks where the book on how to stop him isn't released. so i am kind of expecting that he'll have another solid outing.

Oh my God-- a solid football observation! How DARE you *** up Meatface's self glossing thread hijacking!

[Mr. Pink]

Oh my God-- a solid football observation! How DARE you *** up Meatface's self glossing thread hijacking!

I've just given up on this thread. :rofl: