20 million under the cap

[OLDSRIP]

Hi all,

Question, we hear about the 20 million under the cap all the time.

Is this common in the league or are the Bills one of the few who do this?

is this even a fact? I don't study that kind of thing and wonder if it is a solid criticism.

thanks

[Ed]

I think the Bills are at about 18.5 mil under and I believe the Browns, Jags, and Dolphins all have more than that, so it's not uncommon. The Bills can still use that cap space by rolling it into next season. Maybe they plan to be aggressive in free agency next year, which is why they didn't want to spend it all this season. With a rookie head coach and rookie qb, it probably makes sense to not spend big this year. If it becomes an annual thing though, and they never spend to the cap, then I would say it's a problem.

[Skooby]

I think the Bills are at about 18.5 mil under and I believe the Browns, Jags, and Dolphins all have more than that, so it's not uncommon. The Bills can still use that cap space by rolling it into next season. Maybe they plan to be aggressive in free agency next year, which is why they didn't want to spend it all this season. With a rookie head coach and rookie qb, it probably makes sense to not spend big this year. If it becomes an annual thing though, and they never spend to the cap, then I would say it's a problem. Do you know how much cap room they had last year or the year before that ?

[better days]

I think the Bills are at about 18.5 mil under and I believe the Browns, Jags, and Dolphins all have more than that, so it's not uncommon. The Bills can still use that cap space by rolling it into next season. Maybe they plan to be aggressive in free agency next year, which is why they didn't want to spend it all this season. With a rookie head coach and rookie qb, it probably makes sense to not spend big this year. If it becomes an annual thing though, and they never spend to the cap, then I would say it's a problem.

I would believe the Fins are close to the cap with all the FA's they have signed & will be over the cap next year unless they make some hard cuts.

[BLeonard]

This site updates 4 times a day, showing the Salary Cap for all 32 teams: https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

Currently, the Bills are $18,934,360 under the cap. Only Cleveland and Jacksonville currently have more cap room.

-Bill

[GingerP]

I would believe the Fins are close to the cap with all the FA's they have signed & will be over the cap next year unless they make some hard cuts.

Miami has $18,675,009 in cap room.

Buffalo has $18,934,360 in cap room.

[BLeonard]

I would believe the Fins are close to the cap with all the FA's they have signed & will be over the cap next year unless they make some hard cuts.

Nope... Dolphins have $18,675,009 under the cap, even with all their signings... Less than $300k less than the Bills have left.

Proof positive that you can sign quality players without blowing up your cap number.

-Bill

[better days]

Miami has $18,675,009 in cap room.

Buffalo has $18,934,360 in cap room.

The Fins must have a lot of money tied up in bonuses.

That will catch up to them sooner than later like it did to the Jets.

[better days]

Nope... Dolphins have $18,675,009 under the cap, even with all their signings... Less than $300k less than the Bills have left.

Proof positive that you can sign quality players without blowing up your cap number.

-Bill

The Fins bought those players on a credit card rather than using cash.

But the credit card bill will be a doozy when it comes.

[Skooby]

The Fins bought those players on a credit card rather than using cash.

But the credit card bill will be a doozy when it comes.
Real money, the Fins have major bills owed that will come due soon. They're also looking to build a new stadium down there, so there focusing on building a winner that no one can live without.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bills profits last year was $12.6 million. It's obvious, without raising ticket prices, the Bills can't afford to spend to the cap. Owners are not in it to lose money.

[justasportsfan]

After having had a year to see what he inherited, I believe we'll be active in FA this coming offseason.

[better days]

The Bills profits last year was $12.6 million. It's obvious, without raising ticket prices, the Bills can't afford to spend to the cap. Owners are not in it to lose money.

With the new CBA all teams have to spend close to the cap. We will see if the Bills use the money saved this year on players next year.

[BLeonard]

The Fins bought those players on a credit card rather than using cash.

But the credit card bill will be a doozy when it comes.

...Unless they're smart and cut or restructure the players before they hit the later "big money" years, like 31 of the 32 teams usually do...

My question is: What's the use in rolling over cap room when it's never spent anyway?

Last year, IIRC, the Bills rolled over around $9 mil in cap room... Now, they have $18 mil plus...

But, "couldn't afford" to resign Levitre... Hell, couldn't even sign Rinehart.

But, yeah, let's pretend that the Bills' issues with not having talent and/or depth just fall out of the sky every year.

-Bill

[BLeonard]

The Bills profits last year was $12.6 million. It's obvious, without raising ticket prices, the Bills can't afford to spend to the cap. Owners are not in it to lose money.

Two different pools of money.

One pool is the TV revenue. That's what goes to pay the players. Each team gets more than enough to cover the entire salary cap every year.

The profits come from ticket sales, parking and all that jazz.

Any money from the TV contracts that is not spent on players is pocketed, but not considered profit.

The Detroit Lions lost around $3 million last year, yet they're currently only $2,225,317 under the cap.

-Bill

[Ed]

Do you know how much cap room they had last year or the year before that ?
In 2011 the Bills were about $21 million under the cap. They rolled that money over to 2012 and spent big on Mario Williams and Mark Anderson. They also gave extensions to Stevie Johnson and Fred Jackson. I think they were still about $6 million under for 2012.

[TacklingDummy]

One pool is the TV revenue. That's what goes to pay the players. Each team gets more than enough to cover the entire salary cap every year.



For the 2010 season NFL teams received $118 million per team from TV revenue.
There was no cap in 2010 but in 2009 the cap was $123 million and in 2011 it was $120 million.

[Skooby]

In 2011 the Bills were about $21 million under the cap. They rolled that money over to 2012 and spent big on Mario Williams and Mark Anderson. They also gave extensions to Stevie Johnson and Fred Jackson. I think they were still about $6 million under for 2012.

I knew 2011 was high but they carried monies over from 2012 to 2013, it was much more than $6 Million as well (off the top of my head).

[Jan Reimers]

If we're saving it for a rainy day, someone should tell Ralph, Russ and our other big thinkers that it's been raining like Hell on us Bills' fans for 14 years now.

[BLeonard]

For the 2010 season NFL teams received $118 million per team from TV revenue.
There was no cap in 2010 but in 2009 the cap was $123 million and in 2011 it was $120 million.

I'd like to see where you got those numbers. Also, keep in mind, they occurred near the end of the CBA and TV Deal.

However, in 2011, when they signed new TV contracts, each team surely got more than a couple extra million out of it.

Hell, the Sunday Ticket Deal alone went from $700 mil to $1 Billion, a $300 mil increase. That's $9,375,000 per team alone right there.

It was a big part of the players' argument in the lockout... Many teams weren't spending anywhere near the cap and instead, were pocketing the TV revenue money. That's why the Player's Association wanted a salary floor implemented.

This article from 2011 explains it pretty well: http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story/_/id/6883286/tmq-says-money-motivates-losing-cheap-paying-wins



Cash flow is no problem for any of the teams with ample salary-cap space. The $125 million each NFL club will receive this season from the league's many national television contracts will cover player expenses, while ticket sales and local marketing cover overhead, and then some, even for small-market clubs. That leaves mucho grande greenbacks. Yet many NFL teams are not spending anywhere near as much as they could.

Player expense might not equate to wins, of course. But there's something more basic happening. In the NFL structure, a cheap team that loses might have more profits than an expensive team that wins. Victory is nice, to be sure, but losing cheap can be remunerative. As all NFL teams save the Packers are privately held, and of those all save the Raiders are family businesses, money that is not spent on players goes into the pockets of the owner and his relatives.


-Bill

[Meathead]

personally im fine with carrying a big cap surplus. this team is very young and not ready for prime time so why not bank some if you can. got a couple of quality players coming up for contracts too. the team is progressing nicely and could be challenging the division as soon as next season, id rather try to stock the cubboards then

[Meathead]

the only player i wished theyd kept is rinehard cuz that left guard spot is a mess. but guys like cialis and poz arent worth it. they also needed to stay firm with byrd and not be held up for absolute top money when the offer you made of top third-ish is more than fair

[BLeonard]

Another thing not taken into account... The Toronto Series.

Even if you want to think that the Bills, along with every other team in the league, don't get enough money on the TV contracts to cover player salaries, where is the money from the Toronto deal going?

Because I'd be willing to bet that that isn't reported as profit by sites like Forbes, either.

Hell, I haven't even seen a total that the Bills are getting for renewing the Series...

-Bill

[TacklingDummy]

I'd like to see where you got those numbers. Also, keep in mind, they occurred near the end of the CBA and TV Deal.



Goggle.

For the 2010 season, the NFL received $3.785 billion from contracts with CBS, ESPN, FOX, NBC, and DirecTV's Sunday Ticket. Since the NFL splits national television revenues equally between the 32 teams, this averages out to $118 million per team.

This number will go up for the 2011 season as the Sunday Ticket contract expires, at $700 million per season, and a new 4 year contract kicks in at $1 billion per season.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_television_revenue_does_each_NFL_team_get

[imbondz]

hmmm. The Jags, Browns and Bills have the most cap space.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Nope... Dolphins have $18,675,009 under the cap, even with all their signings... Less than $300k less than the Bills have left.

Proof positive that you can sign quality players without blowing up your cap number.

-Bill

That's not really true. The Fins have artificially low cap hits this year for Wallace and Ellerbe which will jump next year and eat the rollover. They will lose some of their rentals like Grimes and Keller, but they clearly didn't think those guys were foundational players.

[GingerP]

That's not really true. The Fins have artificially low cap hits this year for Wallace and Ellerbe which will jump next year and eat the rollover. They will lose some of their rentals like Grimes and Keller, but they clearly didn't think those guys were foundational players.

Even with the large hits for Wallace ($17.25M) and Ellerbe ($7.425M) they have plenty of wiggle-room. They have about $105M on the cap for next season, granted for just 38 players. They can easily do a restructuring of those contracts and clear up a lot of room if needed, as both have large salaries ($15M for Wallace, $6M for Ellerbe) and much less amortized bonus money. In fact, I would argue both contracts were structured to be converted into bonus and amortized if they needed the room.

The Dolphins may have spent a lot of money last offseason, but they had a lot of room for that spending after years of restraint. They aren't in difficult cap shape in the same way the Steelers or Cowboys are. There are really only a couple teams that have heaviliy leveraged their cap, and Miami isn't one.

[SpikedLemonade]

hmmm. The Jags, Browns and Bills have the most cap space.

Those teams are not really competing but simply putting a product on the field at the lowest cost they can not to attract negative attention.

I hope the eventual new owner is willing to be more aggressive than our dead man walking.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Even with the large hits for Wallace ($17.25M) and Ellerbe ($7.425M) they have plenty of wiggle-room. They have about $105M on the cap for next season, granted for just 38 players. They can easily do a restructuring of those contracts and clear up a lot of room if needed, as both have large salaries ($15M for Wallace, $6M for Ellerbe) and much less amortized bonus money. In fact, I would argue both contracts were structured to be converted into bonus and amortized if they needed the room.

The Dolphins may have spent a lot of money last offseason, but they had a lot of room for that spending after years of restraint. They aren't in difficult cap shape in the same way the Steelers or Cowboys are. There are really only a couple teams that have heaviliy leveraged their cap, and Miami isn't one.

That's what I'm talking about. Miami pushed back bigger cap hits on their marquee free agents in order to backfill with some one year deals. Those guys are going away next year most likely, but they were not intended as Miami's foundation going forward like they clearly think of Ellerbe and Wallace. They are going to trim the roster in the coming years, but it won't be 26 year olds like we always seem to be losing.

[better days]

Even with the large hits for Wallace ($17.25M) and Ellerbe ($7.425M) they have plenty of wiggle-room. They have about $105M on the cap for next season, granted for just 38 players. They can easily do a restructuring of those contracts and clear up a lot of room if needed, as both have large salaries ($15M for Wallace, $6M for Ellerbe) and much less amortized bonus money. In fact, I would argue both contracts were structured to be converted into bonus and amortized if they needed the room.

The Dolphins may have spent a lot of money last offseason, but they had a lot of room for that spending after years of restraint. They aren't in difficult cap shape in the same way the Steelers or Cowboys are. There are really only a couple teams that have heaviliy leveraged their cap, and Miami isn't one.

NOBODY knows how Miami will deal with the cap next year, but they will have to deal with it somehow & I think they will lose at least a couple good players in the process.

[Ed]

NOBODY knows how Miami will deal with the cap next year, but they will have to deal with it somehow & I think they will lose at least a couple good players in the process.
I think they'll deal with it just fine. They're going to be around $30+ million under. They're not going to have to get rid of anyone. They may not be as aggressive, but they'll be fine for a couple years. If Tannehill proves to be a franchise qb over the next 2.5 years and gets a mega qb deal, then they may have to make some tough decisions, but that goes for every team.

[coastal]

dead man rolling.fixed it for u...

[better days]

That's what I'm talking about. Miami pushed back bigger cap hits on their marquee free agents in order to backfill with some one year deals. Those guys are going away next year most likely, but they were not intended as Miami's foundation going forward like they clearly think of Ellerbe and Wallace. They are going to trim the roster in the coming years, but it won't be 26 year olds like we always seem to be losing.

Those guys may be going away next year but they will leave behind dead money in the form of bonuses paid them which the Fins will still be on the hook for even if that player is no longer on the team, Like the Bills with Fitz.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Those guys may be going away next year but they will leave behind dead money in the form of bonuses paid them which the Fins will still be on the hook for even if that player is no longer on the team, Like the Bills with Fitz.

No, they are on one year deals. There is no dead money when a contract expires naturally.

[jdaltroy5]

personally im fine with carrying a big cap surplus. this team is very young and not ready for prime time so why not bank some if you can. got a couple of quality players coming up for contracts too. the team is progressing nicely and could be challenging the division as soon as next season, id rather try to stock the cubboards then
So what happens when those quality players come up for contracts? Do we just let them walk if we're not ready for prime time again?

Do you know how you get ready for prime time?

You sign your good young players when their contracts are up.

You don't let them walk and let your cap space rollover.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

So what happens when those quality players come up for contracts? Do we just let them walk if we're not ready for prime time again?

Do you know how you get ready for prime time?

You sign your good young players when their contracts are up.

You don't let them walk and let your cap space rollover.

Right. We're a young team because we so frequently let our vets walk, and now we shouldn't re-sign players because we're a young team.

[jdaltroy5]

Right. We're a young team because we so frequently let our vets walk, and now we shouldn't re-sign players because we're a young team.
Kind of the definition of spinning your tires.

[The Jokeman]

After having had a year to see what he inherited, I believe we'll be active in FA this coming offseason.

Great the UFA WR and TE crop looks promising but then again I thought this offseason we'd land a quality guy or two and failed to. Also depending what we do on Byrd that could be another hole to fill and think we need to solidify an above average nickel CB. I'd also like to bring in an OLB that can start and maybe rush the QB. Maybe we can fill one of those spots with our top draft spot more specifically the D holes.

[BillsFever21]

So what happens when those quality players come up for contracts? Do we just let them walk if we're not ready for prime time again?

Do you know how you get ready for prime time?

You sign your good young players when their contracts are up.

You don't let them walk and let your cap space rollover.

And in a couple years when them guys become free agents and want top dollar(at even higher salaries then this season since they go up every year) we can't sign them because we have other players coming up for contracts in another year or two.

First we needed to save cap room so we could keep guys like Byrd and Levitre. Then we needed to let Levitre walk so we could sign Byrd. In the end we didn't sign any of them. We signed Wood to a contract extension so that makes it all good. All we need to do is sign one out of every 3 of our good players and we will be set. :rolleyes:

[Bangarang]

We're going to have $7million in dead money next season thanks to Fitz.

[BillsFever21]

We're going to have $7million in dead money next season thanks to Fitz.

It's not Fitzpatrick's fault that Buddy and the Bills were stupid enough to give him 20+ million in guaranteed money after a good month of the season. Anybody would've taken that money. No sense in being mad at Fitzy about it.

[better days]

No, they are on one year deals. There is no dead money when a contract expires naturally.

Yeah, you are right about the one year deals, but the Fins have a lot of money tied up next year & it is questionable if those players on one year deals can be resigned.

The Fins are going to lose some good players next year in any case.

[jdaltroy5]

We're going to have $7million in dead money next season thanks to Fitz.
Actually, I believe they could've absorbed most (if not all) of that dead space this year, but they decided to split it up over two years for some reason.

[better days]

Actually, I believe they could've absorbed most (if not all) of that dead space this year, but they decided to split it up over two years for some reason.

In any case it was best to cut Fitz when they did or the Bills would have owed him even more money.

[GingerP]

We're going to have $7million in dead money next season thanks to Fitz.

The Bills have $11,520,735 in dead money next year:

Ryan Fitzpatrick $7,000,000
Mark Anderson $3,000,000
Rian Lindell $1,375,000
Zebrie Sanders $99,250
Chris White $30,150
Da'Rick Rogers $6,667
Keith Pough $5,334
Ryan Turnley $3,334
Shawn Powell $1,000