Colin Brown finally released

[DBrown77]

Per Rotoworld and Adam Caplan. So Legursky starts and who backs him up?

[Pinkerton Security]

Glad they see how terrible he is. Wouldnt it be nice to have Levitre or Rhinehart?

[more cowbell]

thank god that experiment is over. good riddance.

[justasportsfan]

So Legursky starts and who backs him up?

Matt Flynn.

[OpIv37]

Glad they see how terrible he is. Wouldnt it be nice to have Levitre or Rhinehart?

This is the kind of crap that really bothers me. We are $18.6 million below the cap and we let both these guys walk.

Some people make the argument that Levitre got too much, regardless of cap space. I don't buy that, but even if I did, what's the justification for not re-signing Rhinehardt? Everyone said he'd be easy to replace, but he hasn't been replaced by anyone equal or better and we are 6 games into the season.

This is exactly why people like me say Ralph is cheap.

[Jaybird]

What is frustarting is you cant let a player walk like Levitre without a plan. We went into the season with a band aid that didnt work. We now have a hole to fill in the offseason.

[OpIv37]

What is frustarting is you cant let a player walk like Levitre without a plan. We went into the season with a band aid that didnt work. We now have a hole to fill in the offseason.

And the perpetual rebuilding cycle renews itself once again!

When we let guys like this walk, we are at best treading water and at worst moving backward.

[Pinkerton Security]

And the perpetual rebuilding cycle renews itself once again!

When we let guys like this walk, we are at best treading water and at worst moving backward.

I agree totally. I was pissed when we let Levitre go, but then assumed we were going with Rhinehart. Then he left, and I got even more mad. That move made me think they thought they could "get by" (aka save some money) by going with Brown instead of either of these dudes who had proven that they were solid, but then Brown turned out to be a turd. Sucks - you cant let proven players go without a plan in place.

[Goobylal]

Glad they see how terrible he is. Wouldnt it be nice to have Levitre or Rhinehart?
Not at $7.8M/year (Levitre) and Rinehart has missed the Chargers' last 3 games.

[tampabay25690]

This is the kind of crap that really bothers me. We are $18.6 million below the cap and we let both these guys walk.

Some people make the argument that Levitre got too much, regardless of cap space. I don't buy that, but even if I did, what's the justification for not re-signing Rhinehardt? Everyone said he'd be easy to replace, but he hasn't been replaced by anyone equal or better and we are 6 games into the season.

This is exactly why people like me say Ralph is cheap.

Yea but the LG has not made this team lose games...
Would rather use that 7 mill per and use this offseason...
Levitre would not win us anymore games

[justasportsfan]

This is exactly why people like me say Ralph is cheap.

didn't Dockery and Levitre play the same position?

[DBrown77]

Mark Asper Baby! Problems solved...

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm pretty sure Rhinehart has been a healthy inactive 3 straight games for SD. Levitre isn't exactly earning his billions in Tennesee either.

[jdaltroy5]

Yea but the LG has not made this team lose games...
Would rather use that 7 mill per and use this offseason...
Levitre would not win us anymore games
You could say that about almost any position other than QB.

I do recall a lot of sacks due poor protection from Brown though (the Jets game in particular).

Although there wasn't necessarily one sack that directly led to our loss, the culmination of them and the ensuing lack of faith in the pass protection was probably a large factor in that loss.

[DBrown77]

Looks like they booted Jamie Blatnick off the practice squad today too. Another overhyped fan favorite.

[Pinkerton Security]

I'm pretty sure Rhinehart has been a healthy inactive 3 straight games for SD. Levitre isn't exactly earning his billions in Tennesee either.

so you'd rather go with a guy that we just cut? Or Doug Legursky? give me a break. Both would be serious upgrades to our OL.

[OpIv37]

Yea but the LG has not made this team lose games...
Would rather use that 7 mill per and use this offseason...
Levitre would not win us anymore games

That $7 million per isn't helping win where it is right now either: stuffed in Ralph's mattress. Saving cap only helps haas fans if that money is somehow reinvested in the team. As usual, it's not.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

This is the kind of crap that really bothers me. We are $18.6 million below the cap and we let both these guys walk.

Some people make the argument that Levitre got too much, regardless of cap space. I don't buy that, but even if I did, what's the justification for not re-signing Rhinehardt? Everyone said he'd be easy to replace, but he hasn't been replaced by anyone equal or better and we are 6 games into the season.

This is exactly why people like me say Ralph is cheap.

Typical over reaction. You have no idea what evaluation took place inside the One Bills drive or what took place during contacts between agents and Bills management. Yet you pin this right on Ralph Wilson.

You may say Wilson hires the wrong people or does not have a good judgement of football management types. The last thing I want is Wilson, at any point of time, over-rule his football people to force them give contract to Levitre or whatever. That's just as bad as he veto any contract they will give to Levitre etc. You live in Redskins country. I'm sure you have heard stories how Snyder operates. Throwing money blindly around is just as bad.

[justasportsfan]

I wanted Levitre paid but I am now finding it hard to pay him more than what we paid Wood. I expect the LG position to be addressed either in FA or draft

[X-Era]

This is the kind of crap that really bothers me. We are $18.6 million below the cap and we let both these guys walk.

Some people make the argument that Levitre got too much, regardless of cap space. I don't buy that, but even if I did, what's the justification for not re-signing Rhinehardt? Everyone said he'd be easy to replace, but he hasn't been replaced by anyone equal or better and we are 6 games into the season.

This is exactly why people like me say Ralph is cheap.No clue why you release a guy with experience. Stupid move.

Vet backups.

We've needed them years.

[Albany,n.y.]

I'm pretty sure Rhinehart has been a healthy inactive 3 straight games for SD. Levitre isn't exactly earning his billions in Tennesee either.

He's out with a toe injury. Last night he was referred to as the starter when they talked about his replacement on ESPN.

[X-Era]

Yea but the LG has not made this team lose games...
Would rather use that 7 mill per and use this offseason...
Levitre would not win us anymore gamesShhhhhhh... Many, many fans here believe it would have.

[justasportsfan]

No clue why you release a guy with experience. Stupid move.

Vet backups.

We've needed them years.

would you pay Levitre more $ than Wood? If we paid Levitre what he got, how much more would we have had to pay Wood?

The Bills retained Wood and Urbik on separate four-year deals that total $40.4 million in base salary and $12.5 million in signing bonuses. Levitre, of course, signed a six-year, $46.8 million deal with a $10.5 million signing bonus with Tennessee this past March.

[Meathead]

wow. from wk 1 starter to outright fired just for level of play. you dont see that often

[BillsFever21]

Damn first Young and now Colin Brown. They were two of the 5 guys that were supposed to easily replace Levitre and were fine players. Now it's time for the Legursky experiment. He can't be any worse you wouldn't think. Where has NTD been these days?

Now we get to use a 2-4 round draft pick on a guard in the draft next year. Either that and/or sign one in free agency for a few million a year less then Levitre received. Instead of using that draft pick to help build on the team we get to use it to TRY and replace Levitre. With the lack of any depth at all at guard we will need to draft a guard and sign one in free agency.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'm pretty sure Rhinehart has been a healthy inactive 3 straight games for SD. Levitre isn't exactly earning his billions in Tennesee either.

No he is injured

[cookie G]

Typical over reaction. You have no idea what evaluation took place inside the One Bills drive or what took place during contacts between agents and Bills management. Yet you pin this right on Ralph Wilson.

You may say Wilson hires the wrong people or does not have a good judgement of football management types. The last thing I want is Wilson, at any point of time, over-rule his football people to force them give contract to Levitre or whatever. That's just as bad as he veto any contract they will give to Levitre etc. You live in Redskins country. I'm sure you have heard stories how Snyder operates. Throwing money blindly around is just as bad.

I quite doubt it is Ralph either. But...you had one pseudo GM who didn't think the OL, as a unit was much of a priority, followed by a GM who believed OL were best obtained by dumpster scrapings.

There is a reason this team has only one OL on the roster drafted in the past 4 years;
There is a reason it was the lowest paid unit in the NFL last year, and most likely is this year;

It wasn't a high priority with them.

If I'd venture a guess, when Wood was re-signed, it was due to Whaley putting his foot down, with a strong show of support from Marrone. It was someone finally saying.."enough is enough".

I look back on the Buddy Nix era, and the talent (or lack thereof ) he brought to the offense, and think, you might have to go back to the early 70's to find such incompetence.

[OpIv37]

Typical over reaction. You have no idea what evaluation took place inside the One Bills drive or what took place during contacts between agents and Bills management. Yet you pin this right on Ralph Wilson.

You may say Wilson hires the wrong people or does not have a good judgement of football management types. The last thing I want is Wilson, at any point of time, over-rule his football people to force them give contract to Levitre or whatever. That's just as bad as he veto any contract they will give to Levitre etc. You live in Redskins country. I'm sure you have heard stories how Snyder operates. Throwing money blindly around is just as bad.

Whatever evaluation took place was clearly done poorly. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have had to cut our left guard when we already lack OL depth.

And the reason I put it on Ralph is because the team has pulled this crap for years, regardless of who the GM was. The only common thread is Ralph.

And, once again you create a false dichotomy. Brown and throwing money around aren't the only two options. Since when does resigning your proven starter and only decent back-up constitute "throwing money around"?

And finally, as a fan I don't know how you can continue to defend this blatant incompetence. We let two guys walk at the same position then had to cut the guy who was supposed to fill in because he sucks so bad. All while sitting at $18.6 million below the cap. This is mind-numbing foolishness, and expecting better doesn't mean we want to throw money around. This situation should have been handled better, period.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Where has NTD been these days?

His all Mountain Dew diet must not be going well.

[paladin warrior]

:bravo: Yaaaaaa :bf1: Finally .:cheers::clap: Release Colin Brown :dance:. He is a worst OL

[paladin warrior]

Next year NFL 2014 draft .. Bills need OL and OG

[BillsImpossible]

I think this means Thomas Welch is now the backup guard.

[OpIv37]

His all Mountain Dew diet must not be going well.

Because he's drinking it. The Mt Dew diet only works if you get an iv bag and mainline that ****. Can't let the stomach acid neutralize the high fructose corn syrup and caffeine before it gets directly into the bloodstream.

[feldspar]

Although there wasn't necessarily one sack that directly led to our loss, the culmination of them and the ensuing lack of faith in the pass protection was probably a large factor in that loss.

I disagree. I can think of at least one sack that directly led to our loss. It was against the Jets. On the Bills last meaningful drive, where they were trying to tie the game, Colin Brown got beat immediately in horrible fashion and allowed a sack on 2nd-and-6. This put us in a horrible 3rd-and-long situation.

I don't know what you would call a sack that "directly led to a loss" anyway. It's not too often that you say "that sack cost us the game." Brown came pretty close to that, and he only played like 5 games. The guy has been a liability every time he suited up. That's why he was released. Everybody that has followed the team knows this. It's a given.

People are trying to put Levitre on a pedestal here, but Colin Brown was probably not who the Bills planned on putting in at Left Guard. It was Doug Legursky, who played fine this last Sunday. He would have been the starter all along had he not gotten hurt, in my opinion.

[cookie G]

People are trying to put Levitre on a pedestal here, but Colin Brown was probably not who the Bills planned on putting in at Left Guard. It was Doug Legursky, who played fine this last Sunday. He would have been the starter all along had he not gotten hurt, in my opinion.

This is what Buddy said in Mid April:

“Not at all. Not at all,” said Nix, according to the Bills website. ”I know people have said we’re taking one of those top two guards. Our roster in house is better than I think we get credit for especially offensive line. We’re pretty deep there. We’ve got six guards and we think a couple of them can play.”

Legursky was signed on June 5.

No, he wasn't the plan.

And the good ole boy was either lying, or really overestimated his garbage picking abilities.

And none of them has shown anything close to Levitre's ability, especially in pass pro, no matter what crapola they'd like to spin.

For the sake of the offense, let's hope Whaley puts a little more investment into it than that schmuck did.

[X-Era]

would you pay Levitre more $ than Wood? If we paid Levitre what he got, how much more would we have had to pay Wood?

The Bills retained Wood and Urbik on separate four-year deals that total $40.4 million in base salary and $12.5 million in signing bonuses. Levitre, of course, signed a six-year, $46.8 million deal with a $10.5 million signing bonus with Tennessee this past March.
I never argued to pay Levitre that much money. What I'm arguing against is cutting a guy who has real life experience and with no real backup who also has experience.

This team needs experienced backups. Guys that can step in and perform. I have no idea who were starting if Legursky goes down now.

[X-Era]

Now we get to use a 2-4 round draft pick on a guard in the draft next year. Either that and/or sign one in free agency for a few million a year less then Levitre received. Instead of using that draft pick to help build on the team we get to use it to TRY and replace Levitre. With the lack of any depth at all at guard we will need to draft a guard and sign one in free agency.I'm fine with that. Draft and sign a legit G. Neither Brown nor Asper are that. Legursky is questionable.

Let's not forget that there were experienced G's on the market during FA. We chose to let Levitre go and then did nothing at the position. We also then let Rhinehart leave too.

[Albany,n.y.]

wow. from wk 1 starter to outright fired just for level of play. you dont see that often

Only in Buffalo...Trent Edwards 2010.

[Don't Panic]

I'm pretty sure Rhinehart has been a healthy inactive 3 straight games for SD. Levitre isn't exactly earning his billions in Tennesee either.

don't confuse the pessimists with the facts. It ruins their (lack of a) buzz.

[X-Era]

This is what Buddy said in Mid April:

“Not at all. Not at all,” said Nix, according to the Bills website. ”I know people have said we’re taking one of those top two guards. Our roster in house is better than I think we get credit for especially offensive line. We’re pretty deep there. We’ve got six guards and we think a couple of them can play.”

Legursky was signed on June 5.

No, he wasn't the plan.

And the good ole boy was either lying, or really overestimated his garbage picking abilities.

And none of them has shown anything close to Levitre's ability, especially in pass pro, no matter what crapola they'd like to spin.

For the sake of the offense, let's hope Whaley puts a little more investment into it than that schmuck did.
Or, there is another possibility... That the Bills don't think the G position is as important as you do. They are willing to start mediocre G's because, in their view, it doesn't drastically change the outcome of the games...

And that ideology from the Bills brass would make sense for why they didn't want to pay top dollar for Levitre.

What I can't agree with is not providing better, more experienced backups but rather sitting on a big chunk of cap room.

[Pinkerton Security]

don't confuse the pessimists with the facts. It ruins their (lack of a) buzz.

haha except the "facts" are wrong...he's been injured the past 4 weeks.

[cookie G]

Or, there is another possibility... That the Bills don't think the G position is as important as you do. They are willing to start mediocre G's because, in their view, it doesn't drastically change the outcome of the games...

And that ideology from the Bills brass would make sense for why they didn't want to pay top dollar for Levitre.

What I can't agree with is not providing better, more experienced backups but rather sitting on a big chunk of cap room.

Oh, I don't think it is a possibility, I'm thinking it is a near certainity.

Failing to re-sign Levitre is somewhat of an indication of how they feel about the position.

Replacing your best offensive lineman with... no one...speaks volumes about how they feel about the OL.

As far as "how many games has he lost us"...that's tough to gauge.

I do know that without him..and without a Qb that gets rid of the ball in 1.8 seconds, they've given up 20 sacks already in only 6 games.

I do know that people are now saying "what's wrong with CJ Spiller?"

It isn't Spiller.

Now...how many runs would he have broken if it were Levitre or someone else instead of the dumpster pick up?

How many long passes would have been completed if the QB wasn't getting sacked, or pressured?

Thinking that only those who throw, run or catch are the only important positions on the offense, or don't have an effect on its performace is...nuts. Good teams certainly don't view it that way.

It might have been excusable if Buddy had actually been improving the offense in other areas during his tenure..

When he took over, he had 1 WR, 2 decent OL and no QB.

Three years later he had 1 WR (inherited) 2 decent OL and no QB.

That's not a good track record.

[feldspar]

This is what Buddy said in Mid April:

“Not at all. Not at all,” said Nix, according to the Bills website. ”I know people have said we’re taking one of those top two guards. Our roster in house is better than I think we get credit for especially offensive line. We’re pretty deep there. We’ve got six guards and we think a couple of them can play.”

Legursky was signed on June 5.

No, he wasn't the plan.

And the good ole boy was either lying, or really overestimated his garbage picking abilities.

And none of them has shown anything close to Levitre's ability, especially in pass pro, no matter what crapola they'd like to spin.

For the sake of the offense, let's hope Whaley puts a little more investment into it than that schmuck did.

Of course Legursky was the plan.

The plan was to bring somebody else in, and it happened to be Legursky. God forbid that the GM talks up the players on the roster...that's what they do. Part of the job description, really. And if they didn't want to pay Levitre huge money, that's not necessarily Buddy Nix's decision to make at all.

[cookie G]

Of course Legursky was the plan.

The plan was to bring somebody else in, and it happened to be Legursky. God forbid that the GM talks up the players on the roster...that's what they do. Part of the job description, really. And if they didn't want to pay Levitre huge money, that's not necessarily Buddy Nix's decision to make at all.

Ok...our plan is this...

we have this guy...who we won't sign for a month and a half...and he's our plan...he's been our plan all along...

Am I understanding that right?

The stuff people believe...

Whatever.

[YardRat]

Oh, I don't think it is a possibility, I'm thinking it is a near certainity.

Failing to re-sign Levitre is somewhat of an indication of how they feel about the position.

Replacing your best offensive lineman with... no one...speaks volumes about how they feel about the OL.

As far as "how many games has he lost us"...that's tough to gauge.

I do know that without him..and without a Qb that gets rid of the ball in 1.8 seconds, they've given up 20 sacks already in only 6 games.

I do know that people are now saying "what's wrong with CJ Spiller?"

It isn't Spiller.

Now...how many runs would he have broken if it were Levitre or someone else instead of the dumpster pick up?

How many long passes would have been completed if the QB wasn't getting sacked, or pressured?

Thinking that only those who throw, run or catch are the only important positions on the offense, or don't have an effect on its performace is...nuts. Good teams certainly don't view it that way.

It might have been excusable if Buddy had actually been improving the offense in other areas during his tenure..

When he took over, he had 1 WR, 2 decent OL and no QB.

Three years later he had 1 WR (inherited) 2 decent OL and no QB.

That's not a good track record.

Please.

Have you completely erased the memories of the incompetence of the offense over the four year period Levitre was here? The constant *****ing about not having holes for the backs to hit, the QB not having enough time to throw intermediate or deep routes? The inability to sustain drives?

It wasn't any different with Andy at LG, and if anybody believes otherwise they might to revisit some threads from past seasons. Hell, he can get out in space and finesse block, but he was mauled at the line just as much as anybody. No power at the point of attack. It showed. Glaringly. Consistently.

We already knew the oline could suck with Levitre in the line-up, why pony-up big dollars to keep the same guys sucking on the team for a few years more? Let another sap pay top dollar for an over-hyped guard, I'll take the same production from a younger, cheaper guy that hasn't hit his ceiling yet and hope he gets better.

[feldspar]

Ok...our plan is this...

we have this guy...who we won't sign for a month and a half...and he's our plan...he's been our plan all along...

Am I understanding that right?

The stuff people believe...

Whatever.

No, you are not understanding that right.

what did I say?

I said that the plan was to bring in somebody else. The Bills brought in somebody else, no?

The plan was in flux. The plan was NEVER to start Colin Brown. That ended up happening due to injury.

Yeah, right...the stuff people will believe. Filling a roster spot in early June is not an outrageous concept.

[BertSquirtgum]

This is the kind of crap that really bothers me. We are $18.6 million below the cap and we let both these guys walk.

Some people make the argument that Levitre got too much, regardless of cap space. I don't buy that, but even if I did, what's the justification for not re-signing Rhinehardt? Everyone said he'd be easy to replace, but he hasn't been replaced by anyone equal or better and we are 6 games into the season.

This is exactly why people like me say Ralph is cheap.

All of your posts are the kind of crap that really bothers me.

[cookie G]

Please.

Have you completely erased the memories of the incompetence of the offense over the four year period Levitre was here? The constant *****ing about not having holes for the backs to hit, the QB not having enough time to throw intermediate or deep routes? The inability to sustain drives?

It wasn't any different with Andy at LG, and if anybody believes otherwise they might to revisit some threads from past seasons. Hell, he can get out in space and finesse block, but he was mauled at the line just as much as anybody. No power at the point of attack. It showed. Glaringly. Consistently.

We already knew the oline could suck with Levitre in the line-up, why pony-up big dollars to keep the same guys sucking on the team for a few years more? Let another sap pay top dollar for an over-hyped guard, I'll take the same production from a younger, cheaper guy that hasn't hit his ceiling yet and hope he gets better.

lol...the same production from a younger, cheaper guy that hasn't hit his ceiling....

and who would this be?

They just cut the best of the younger, cheaper guys that hadn't hit their ceiling...because he was the worst guard in the NFL.

Remember Buddy saying that in April? That guy was on the roster...how they had 6 of them on the roster?

Wonder what happened to all of those younger, cheaper guys that hadn't hit their ceiling.

But yeah, I remember talking about this last year...who was it that we needed to save money for?

Oh yeah...the injury faking diva who thinks $7 millin isn't enough of a salary to tweet from his living room on Sunday afternoon.

Nice call.

[cookie G]

No, you are not understanding that right.

what did I say?

I said that the plan was to bring in somebody else. The Bills brought in somebody else, no?

The plan was in flux. The plan was NEVER to start Colin Brown. That ended up happening due to injury.

Yeah, right...the stuff people will believe. Filling a roster spot in early June is not an outrageous concept.

I understand it perfectly...they are making this up as they go along. And people think that's a plan. Of course they are bringing in somebody...unless they were planning on playing with 4 lineman.

Buffalobills.com...The Buffalo Bills announced today that they intend to play without a left guard for the season..feeling the position has become obsolete in the modern game.

The Chorus: You know, that makes a lot of sense..with the read option becoming popular and the increasing use of the spread offense, the position really isn't needed any more.

[feldspar]

I understand it perfectly...they are making this up as they go along. And people think that's a plan. Of course they are bringing in somebody...unless they were planning on playing with 4 lineman.

Buffalobills.com...The Buffalo Bills announced today that they intend to play without a left guard for the season..feeling the position has become obsolete in the modern game.

The Chorus: You know, that makes a lot of sense..with the read option becoming popular and the increasing use of the spread offense, the position really isn't needed any more.

What makes you think that other teams don't make it up as they go along? You think that?

[OpIv37]

All of your posts are the kind of crap that really bothers me.

Lmao. You need to learn some self awareness. It's not my posts that bothers you. It's the fact that they make you acknowledge realities that you are trying to avoid.

[feldspar]

Lmao.

I like how half your posts start out with this gem.

[OpIv37]

Or, there is another possibility... That the Bills don't think the G position is as important as you do. They are willing to start mediocre G's because, in their view, it doesn't drastically change the outcome of the games...

And that ideology from the Bills brass would make sense for why they didn't want to pay top dollar for Levitre.

What I can't agree with is not providing better, more experienced backups but rather sitting on a big chunk of cap room.

Do you really think that the Bills don't value the G position with a rookie QB and two good running backs?

They know teams are going to stack the box. They know they need to protect the young QB. It's counter-intuitive to not value the G position.

[X-Era]

Do you really think that the Bills don't value the G position with a rookie QB and two good running backs?

They know teams are going to stack the box. They know they need to protect the young QB. It's counter-intuitive to not value the G position.
Not necessarily.

Cookie claims were getting the ball out in 1.8 seconds. I bet that's almost never the case when we've been sacked.

We've started two rookies and a guy with 1 game under his belt. It's no wonder we've given up sacks.

Locker has been sacked 9 times in 4 games with Tenn and they have Levitre. Manuel was sacked 13 times in 5 games... 8 came in the Jets game (Colin Brown). In the other games he never had more than 2 in a game. Same for Locker.

When we look at the OL many want to make it linear and claim the OL is why we have sacks. Even worse, blame a single linemen for it. It's a combination of lot's of things, coverage down field, missed assignments by OL, QB holding the ball too long, lack of a running game... etc...

And even without a fully productive CJ we still are the 3rd ranked rushing team in the league.

Now, like I said, we knew the LG spot was a weakness after losing Levitre and instead of adding an experienced and solid vet to the mix we decided to promote a backup and sign another backup.

And now we've elevated one backup with experience and then cut the other backup with experience which means we have a backup starting and no depth.

The LG spot needs an upgrade but there was no reason to cut Brown at this point.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Marrone & company needs to see how Colin Brown works in NFL, just like Gailey needed to see how Edwards ran his offense before making a firm decision. I have absolutely no problem with that. New coaching staff needs time to evaluation talent on hand; that's acceptable in my book.

I'm not that old but old enough to see the difference between my kids' generation and mine. people wants things instant. Why don't you win now? why don't you answer your text now?! Whatever. I still believe you do things properly by giving them needed time. getting the right people, in this case, is critical. Whaley, Marrone are the two critical pieces of this organization. If they get them right, we will be in fine position. But I don't expect they have to be miracle workers, like Whaley and Marrone should knew back in April that Brown is definitely a flop. Even the best in this business are wrong on players 50% of the time.

[better days]

Not necessarily.

Cookie claims were getting the ball out in 1.8 seconds. I bet that's almost never the case when we've been sacked.

We've started two rookies and a guy with 1 game under his belt. It's no wonder we've given up sacks.

Locker has been sacked 9 times in 4 games with Tenn and they have Levitre. Manuel was sacked 13 times in 5 games... 8 came in the Jets game (Colin Brown). In the other games he never had more than 2 in a game. Same for Locker.

When we look at the OL many want to make it linear and claim the OL is why we have sacks. Even worse, blame a single linemen for it. It's a combination of lot's of things, coverage down field, missed assignments by OL, QB holding the ball too long, lack of a running game... etc...

And even without a fully productive CJ we still are the 3rd ranked rushing team in the league.

Now, like I said, we knew the LG spot was a weakness after losing Levitre and instead of adding an experienced and solid vet to the mix we decided to promote a backup and sign another backup.

And now we've elevated one backup with experience and then cut the other backup with experience which means we have a backup starting and no depth.

The LG spot needs an upgrade but there was no reason to cut Brown at this point.

Well, the Bills promoted Mark Asper to take Browns spot on the roster. Who knows maybe he will be a better back up to Legursky than Brown.

He certainly can be no worse than Brown.

[justasportsfan]

The bills are ranked better than the titans in total O, rush and pass inspite of Brown vs. Levitre which is why I can understand that the guard position isn't a high impact position and an argument can be made that Levitre was overpaid.

Not saying we shouldn't have addressed the position, but Levitre hit the lotto. Like I said, Marrone's first year as coach and I expect it to be addressed in the offseason.

[better days]

The bills are ranked better than the titans in total O, rush and pass inspite of Brown vs. Levitre which is why I can understand that the guard position isn't a high impact position and an argument can be made that Levitre was overpaid.

Not saying we shouldn't have addressed the position, but Levitre hit the lotto. Like I said, Marrone's first year as coach and I expect it to be addressed in the offseason.

Nobody can argue about Levitre hitting the Loto or that he is overpaid, but if he were still on the Bills the offense would be that much better for it.

[justasportsfan]

Nobody can argue about Levitre hitting the Loto or that he is overpaid, but if he were still on the Bills the offense would be that much better for it.

I'm not arguing that. I wanted Levitre here, but there was no way the bills were paying him more or equal to what he got and so he's gone.

[Mr. Pink]

Cutting Brown makes no logical sense. Demoting him, sure.

But we lacked depth as it was when he was on the roster.

So now what?

[colin]

what happened is the bills took a risk, and it bit them. they let andy walk, and they had some depth at G (some who got hurt, and are only now healthy), and signed kolb. they had all the cap room because they thought they would be able to extend byrd with a chunk of change upfront, which makes sense. instead byrd had to keep the tag, our LG got hurt, and kolb's brain is mush. if we extended byrd (and he was able to play all year), kolb didn't go down (might be his career), and our LG situation was healthier, even with the other injuries (stevie, spiller, fred jackson, gilmore, carrington) we'd be 4-2 or 5-1. i'm angry about our record, but if you re roll the year 10 times over we average better than .500 IMO.

[X-Era]

Well, the Bills promoted Mark Asper to take Browns spot on the roster. Who knows maybe he will be a better back up to Legursky than Brown.

He certainly can be no worse than Brown.Yes he can be worse and we have no real data to say he's better... Hence the term "experience". I want backups who are much more proven.

[EDS]

what happened is the bills took a risk, and it bit them. they let andy walk, and they had some depth at G (some who got hurt, and are only now healthy), and signed kolb. they had all the cap room because they thought they would be able to extend byrd with a chunk of change upfront, which makes sense. instead byrd had to keep the tag, our LG got hurt, and kolb's brain is mush. if we extended byrd (and he was able to play all year), kolb didn't go down (might be his career), and our LG situation was healthier, even with the other injuries (stevie, spiller, fred jackson, gilmore, carrington) we'd be 4-2 or 5-1. i'm angry about our record, but if you re roll the year 10 times over we average better than .500 IMO.

What? What is this left guard depth you speak of, Legursky? He is a nice back-up sure, but not an ideal starter for certain. I would also point out that injuries are a part of the game and it is impossible to assume the Bills would automatically have had a better record without them? Do we beat the Pats with everyone healthy? Maybe, maybe not. What if Gronkowski is healthy fro Brady to throw to? Does that mean they win by more? Denver hasn't had Von Miller all season and is still undefeated. San Fran is 4-2 despite having no Crabtree all season, and having guys like P. Willis and A. Smith miss time.

I guess let's see how the Pats do with no Gronk, no Wilfork, no Mayo and possibly no Amendola and Talib.

[Mr. Pink]

what happened is the bills took a risk, and it bit them. they let andy walk, and they had some depth at G (some who got hurt, and are only now healthy), and signed kolb. they had all the cap room because they thought they would be able to extend byrd with a chunk of change upfront, which makes sense. instead byrd had to keep the tag, our LG got hurt, and kolb's brain is mush. if we extended byrd (and he was able to play all year), kolb didn't go down (might be his career), and our LG situation was healthier, even with the other injuries (stevie, spiller, fred jackson, gilmore, carrington) we'd be 4-2 or 5-1. i'm angry about our record, but if you re roll the year 10 times over we average better than .500 IMO.

:rofl:

You could re-roll and come up with 0-6 just as easily as 4-2

[BillsFever21]

Just about every team outside of the Jaguars can say they could easily have a couple more wins right now if not for X, Y and Z. The stats are something like 53% of all games are decided by less then 10 points. Even in many games that were decided by more then 10 points it was a close game for the most part until the other team put them away.

Even the worse teams in the league play close games that they could've won if they made a couple more plays, etc. Every team also suffers some injuries or has players banged up. We're far from one of the worse teams in the league but we're far from a good team. It's just some sanity in the endless amount of people who say every season that we could've easily been 10-6 instead of 6-10. Every team can say that.

I think if Ralph will actually pay to keep our good young core players around that will be the start of having some sustained success. That along with adding several more good players in key positions in the draft and filling in some holes in free agency. If we can find a competent QB or if EJ turns into one then it will speed up the process that much faster. If we had a top 10 QB then the results would be instantly.

The main thing is actually ponying up the dough to keep the good younger players we currently have. Without building that core and the continuity that comes along with it then you will always be treading water like we've been doing for years now. If you want to build a winning team that can have sustained success and a chance to compete then you must.

Any team with some good coaching and talent can sneak into the playoffs for a year or two. Unless you're willing to keep that core together and build upon it then you will never see success over the long term with a chance to compete deep in the playoffs. Either that or you can choose to stay 10-20 million under the cap every year and celebrate that fact.

[The Popcorn]

This is the kind of crap that really bothers me. We are $18.6 million below the cap and we let both these guys walk.

Some people make the argument that Levitre got too much, regardless of cap space. I don't buy that, but even if I did, what's the justification for not re-signing Rhinehardt? Everyone said he'd be easy to replace, but he hasn't been replaced by anyone equal or better and we are 6 games into the season.

This is exactly why people like me say Ralph is cheap.


I'll take your word on the cap number and signing Rinehart wouldn't have left the Bills in a financial pinch either. Legursky would make for a decent reserve lineman. He's nothing more than a spot starter.

[better days]

Yes he can be worse and we have no real data to say he's better... Hence the term "experience". I want backups who are much more proven.

I went through this with Op about Donald Jones. He maintained Jones was better than Woods because Jones had EXPERIENCE.

Well, I don't care how much experience a player has, if he sucks, he sucks PERIOD. Asper may suck as well, but I will trust Marrone's judgement on that.

He determined Asper was better than Brown or he would not have made those moves. Oh & by the way, I think Marrone knows a little about the OL.

[X-Era]

I went through this with Op about Donald Jones. He maintained Jones was better than Woods because Jones had EXPERIENCE.

Well, I don't care how much experience a player has, if he sucks, he sucks PERIOD. Asper may suck as well, but I will trust Marrone's judgement on that.

He determined Asper was better than Brown or he would not have made those moves. Oh & by the way, I think Marrone knows a little about the OL.
Wait.

Isn't Marrone (actually the Bills brass) the same group that thought the following were good enough to be backups too?

Justin Rogers
Matt Leinhart
Jeff Tuel

The team undervalues backups. They save money by using undrafted and/or unproven players.

If we lose Legursky to injury we have no backup with experience on this team, with this system, and in real games.

And there's no way we can look at the rash of injuries we've suffered and feel safe and sound with that situation. It's just not prudent. You're simply willing to take the risk on unproven backups... I'm not. And sitting 18+ mill under the cap, I can't justify why we should be taking that risk.

Donald Jones was not a solid #2 WR. At the right price I would have been fine with him backing up Robert Woods. Woods was taken in the 2nd round and was widely thought of as NFL ready. I would have let them compete for the job in TC and then start Woods with Jones as a primary backup. Unless Jones couldn't beat out Goodwin/Graham for the backup spot... and then he should be cut. The cut should be done when someone else proves they are better. Not like Brown where he went from starter to the street and we brought some unproven guy who couldn't stick in instead.

I'm not saying the starters always need to be experienced. What I'm saying is that without decent experienced backups we are paper thin with depth and it can and probably will cost us games.

We shouldn't be even dealing with Brown's or Asper's in the first place. Our starter should be a solid FA signee or legit prospect and Legursky should be the backup.

[better days]

Wait.

Isn't Marrone (actually the Bills brass) the same group that thought the following were good enough to be backups too?

Justin Rogers
Matt Leinhart
Jeff Tuel

The team undervalues backups. They save money by using undrafted and/or unproven players.

If we lose Legursky to injury we have no backup with experience on this team, with this system, and in real games.

And there's no way we can look at the rash of injuries we've suffered and feel safe and sound with that situation. It's just not prudent. You're simply willing to take the risk on unproven backups... I'm not. And sitting 18+ mill under the cap, I can't justify why we should be taking that risk.

Donald Jones was not a solid #2 WR. At the right price I would have been fine with him backing up Robert Woods. Woods was taken in the 2nd round and was widely thought of as NFL ready. I would have let them compete for the job in TC and then start Woods with Jones as a primary backup. Unless Jones couldn't beat out Goodwin/Graham for the backup spot... and then he should be cut. The cut should be done when someone else proves they are better. Not like Brown where he went from starter to the street and we brought some unproven guy who couldn't stick in instead.

I'm not saying the starters always need to be experienced. What I'm saying is that without decent experienced backups we are paper thin with depth and it can and probably will cost us games.

We shouldn't be even dealing with Brown's or Asper's in the first place. Our starter should be a solid FA signee or legit prospect and Legursky should be the backup.

Well, if it were up to me our starter would be Levitre. What FA LG would you have had the Bills sign?

And how much would he have cost? IMO it would have been better to keep Levitre, a proven player in Buffalo than to sign another Derrick Dockery.

But it is what it is & I would rather an unproven Asper back up Legursky than Brown who has proven to SUCK.

[cookie G]

Well, I don't care how much experience a player has, if he sucks, he sucks PERIOD. Asper may suck as well, but I will trust Marrone's judgement on that.

He determined Asper was better than Brown or he would not have made those moves. Oh & by the way, I think Marrone knows a little about the OL.

Yeah, the problem with Brown isn't that he has experience, the problem is that he ever did have experience.

He's just not very good. And he was the best of Buddy's not very good cast of characters he vying for the OL this year.

It reminded me of Dick Vermeil holding open tryouts among the citizenry of Philadelphia in the 70's.

You too can be an NFL Olineman!

[jimmifli]

Yeah, the problem with Brown isn't that he has experience, the problem is that he ever did have experience.

He's just not very good. And he was the best of Buddy's not very good cast of characters he vying for the OL this year.

It reminded me of Dick Vermeil holding open tryouts among the citizenry of Philadelphia in the 70's.

You too can be an NFL Olineman!
Why draft lineman when you can just sign some guys that already got experience playing on other teams?

[better days]

Yeah, the problem with Brown isn't that he has experience, the problem is that he ever did have experience.

He's just not very good. And he was the best of Buddy's not very good cast of characters he vying for the OL this year.

It reminded me of Dick Vermeil holding open tryouts among the citizenry of Philadelphia in the 70's.

You too can be an NFL Olineman!

Nix told us a HUGE WHOPPER when he said the Bills had 5 or 6 players to compete for the LG position that were capable of starting.