Major IF - what kind of team are we IF we beat the Saints? [Archive] - BillsZone.com

Pinkerton Security

10-24-2013, 09:22 AM

The King

10-24-2013, 09:27 AM

It wouldnt change my impression of the team at all. We're a young team with a lot of fight, moving in the right direction. That's it. Nothing more.

OpIv37

10-24-2013, 09:27 AM

sukie

10-24-2013, 09:36 AM

Pinkerton Security

10-24-2013, 09:37 AM

1-2 in the div, 2-4 in the conf.

A win would show an improving team and be a big morale boost, but an NFC win doesn't go nearly as far to dig us out of this hole.

The season is still training camp for next year and playoffs are highly, highly unlikely. A win is a strong sign that we are ahead of schedule on rebuilding, but it's too little, too late for 2013.

Fair enough. What I'm getting at are those who say we're nothing more than a 3 to 4 win team, max. I think we're better than that anyways and have since the beginning, but a win against the Saints would, in my mind, completely destroy any of those theories that we're still a crappy team in a downward spiral.

Pinkerton Security

10-24-2013, 09:38 AM

Thief

10-24-2013, 09:44 AM

SB CHAMPS or die attitude would kick into effect!

Pinkerton Security

10-24-2013, 09:50 AM

SB CHAMPS or die attitude would kick into effect!

Some may go into that mode. Im just trying to convey the idea that if we can pull off a win this weekend (and even if we dont) we have a fairly strong team who isnt quite there yet.

sukie

10-24-2013, 09:55 AM

This is garbage.

You really think that by winning in NO the Bills are a contender and legit?

IAG

10-24-2013, 10:04 AM

We win the division if we win vs. New Orleans

Pinkerton Security

10-24-2013, 10:06 AM

You really think that by winning in NO the Bills are a contender and legit?

I think it shows without question we're headed in the right direction. I know this whole reading thing is tough for some, my original post stated:

"If we find some way to beat the Saints, i think we are closer to being a legitimate team and playoff contender than many of the realists on here would like to admit."

sukie

10-24-2013, 10:07 AM

2 years is closer than 3... I agree. I would be more interested in the outcome of the Saints game at home. Beating a powerhouse defense would be more eye opening

Thurmal

10-24-2013, 10:08 AM

I would increase my hopes to 8-8 rather than 6-10. They would have to win this game, then the Chiefs and Steelers game as well before I began to entertain a possible playoff birth.

justasportsfan

10-24-2013, 10:51 AM

If we win we're a .500 team..........and I'm booking myself to the sb.

gebobs

10-24-2013, 10:54 AM

Let's be clear on something, the NFC South is mediocre. The Saints are the only team over 0.500 and we don't really know how good they are. Their five wins come against opponents with combined 12-20 record and only Chicago is over 0.500...and barely at that. The Saints lost a close one to the Pats in Foxboro that they should have won, but then this is not a dominant New England team.

Yeah, it'll be a huge upset if the Bills win, but but but I have a glimmer of hope.

trapezeus

10-24-2013, 11:08 AM

one thing that gets me excited is that whether we are among the bottom third or middle third, it seems like down at the bottom, more teams will be looking for QB's and skill players. We did that last year. so with the 2013 looking to have brought some decent spoils, the bills can focus on OL and LB, positions other teams don't need.

so a 7-9 season or middle of pack top 15 pick might not be as brutal in years pasts and will finally look like progress.

that's the best case scenario.

Mr. Pink

10-24-2013, 11:24 AM

Non conference game, if this team can go out and beat the 8-0 Chiefs - they ain't losing to Cleveland, then I will be optimistic about their chances the rest of the way. Every game is big but as OP pointed out they'd still be 2-4 in the conference. 2-4 in the conference isn't a start towards good things when it comes down to playoff tiebreakers in week 17. A loss to the Chiefs puts that at 2-5 so even if we beat the Saints, we'll be a 4-5 football team with a 2-5 conference record. Generally teams need to get to 9 wins to have a playoff chance. So we have to finish out 5-2 at minimum and neither of those losses can be to an AFC team, realistically.

9-7 with 7-5 in the conference is infinitely better than 9-7 and 5-7 in the conference. The former can get you into the playoffs, the latter likely will not as you'll lose out on tiebreaker.

Night Train

10-24-2013, 11:31 AM

The same team if we lose.

Rebuilding.

IlluminatusUIUC

10-24-2013, 11:33 AM

HOW we beat the Saints is what matters, not just if. If we win because of tip drill INTs, lucky penalties, Graham being sidelined, etc then I won't take anything from it. It would be no different then the win we pulled out of our butts vs New England in 2011.

If, however, we finally establish a consistent offense and defensive effort against a team that is doing extremely well in both areas, then I will start re-evaluating this team.

imbondz

10-24-2013, 12:25 PM

If we win 51-7 then I'll rethink my idea of where we're at. Anything less than that, we're a mediocre team re-building with hope.

The Jokeman

10-24-2013, 12:35 PM

We win the division if we win vs. New Orleans

We still have to beat the Patriots and Jets to win the division more so the first. To me a win against New Orleans demonstrates that we're making progress from bottom feeders to mediocre. As personally think we're another playmaker or two on offense to be legitimate contenders assuming we can keep guys like Byrd and Kyle Williams playing at above average levels. I'd also like to see us shore up a solid nickel CB and maybe another pass rusher on D.

stuckincincy

10-24-2013, 12:40 PM

It wouldnt change my impression of the team at all. We're a young team with a lot of fight, moving in the right direction. That's it. Nothing more.

Good post.

BuffaloRedleg

10-24-2013, 03:19 PM

BillsFever21

10-24-2013, 04:58 PM

It depended on what we did afterwards. It would make most people more optimistic about the team improving but in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't mean much if we lost the next couple after that game. Even the worse teams in the league can win an occasional game against a better team.

After be beat New England with a last minute score many thought we had proved to be a good team. We lost 8 of our last 9 games that season.

Generalissimus Gibby

10-24-2013, 06:06 PM

This mostly for the "realists" out there - and lets not get confused, I am not delusional and I dont expect us to win.

However, IF we beat the Saints this weekend, what does that mean for us? Do you expect us to have a shot at all?

HINT: Fluke win is not an acceptable answer. The Saints are legit. If we find some way to beat the Saints, i think we are closer to being a legitimate team and playoff contender than many of the realists on here would like to admit.

It means we are 4-4 and facing a MUST win against KC the next week. However, it also means that this year's squad may be different than previous squads and might actually be on the cusp of doing something special. I have seen Marrone make some calls that make me cringe this season, but on the whole he does seem to have this team playing harder than I've seen since maybe 2001. This year is not the year we go to the playoffs and you have to be on something to think this team is going to the playoffs this year. However, I think this team is going in the right direction. I expect this team to be playing well into the new year next season.

Mr. Pink

10-24-2013, 06:06 PM

People are confusing "what it says about the team" and "what it says about our playoff chances."

Certainly a non-conference win doesn't really help our playoff chances much. This is true.

But beating the Saints sends a message that this team is capable of playing at a high level and going toe to toe with most teams in the league.

They are mutually exclusive.

To a degree, you're right.

But if they go out and beat the Saints and then lose to the Chiefs, it's really all for naught.

Reverse it and it's a different story.

Generalissimus Gibby

10-24-2013, 06:08 PM

2 years is closer than 3... I agree. I would be more interested in the outcome of the Saints game at home. Beating a powerhouse defense would be more eye opening

We have that shot the week after. Fortunately, the Chiefs offense is very mediocre, but that defense of theirs is amazing. We beat or hang with the Saints and beat the Chiefs, then I think we should be disappointed with anything less than 6-10

swiper

10-24-2013, 06:26 PM

Downinfloflo

10-24-2013, 06:53 PM

An NFL football team.

TacklingDummy

10-24-2013, 07:20 PM

This mostly for the "realists" out there - and lets not get confused, I am not delusional and I dont expect us to win.

I'd say they were lucky.
This is Thad's team.
EJ can ride the pine and I'd look at trading him in the off season.

BuffaloRedleg

10-24-2013, 07:29 PM

To a degree, you're right.

But if they go out and beat the Saints and then lose to the Chiefs, it's really all for naught.

Reverse it and it's a different story.

That I can absolutely agree with. If I could chose, clearly the KC win would mean a lot more in a lot of different ways. Beating the Saints doesn't mean as much in as many ways, but it certainly says something about the state of this team.

Tiburon1724

10-24-2013, 07:29 PM

The very average Patriots beat the Saints so it's possible.

TigerJ

10-24-2013, 08:49 PM

It would mean we have a young team that is unusually tough and scrappy.

swiper

10-25-2013, 06:04 AM

The very average Patriots beat the Saints so it's possible.

It's highly unlikely that scenario happens again.

Pinkerton Security

10-25-2013, 07:14 AM

ROFL at the magical thinking going on in this thread. You think the Bills are as good as NO or KC? Really? WTF are you smoking, b/c I want some of that.

Some folks are about to fall way back down to earth.

This thread isnt about whether we're better than NO or KC. I know we're not better than either. However, again, if you actually read the original post and respond to it, it is asking what it says about our team going forward IF we can find a way to beat NO, or KC for that matter.

better days

10-25-2013, 07:22 AM

We have that shot the week after. Fortunately, the Chiefs offense is very mediocre, but that defense of theirs is amazing. We beat or hang with the Saints and beat the Chiefs, then I think we should be disappointed with anything less than 6-10

Even if the Bills lose both those games, I will be disappointed with anything less than 6 wins.

JoeMama

10-25-2013, 07:25 AM

The very average Patriots beat the Saints so it's possible.

I disagree.

The Pats D is playing pretty good football.

And Brady is playing very effectively for a guy with zero options in the passing game. Although Gronk is back, which should be a boon.

They'll pull away in the AFC East soon enough. There's nobody in our division worthy of contending with them, even if the Pats are weaker than they've ever been in 13 years.

They know how to win.

better days

10-25-2013, 08:21 AM

I disagree.

The Pats D is playing pretty good football.

And Brady is playing very effectively for a guy with zero options in the passing game. Although Gronk is back, which should be a boon.

They'll pull away in the AFC East soon enough. There's nobody in our division worthy of contending with them, even if the Pats are weaker than they've ever been in 13 years.

They know how to win.

The Pats* have now lost both Wilfork & Mayo for the rest of the season & Tommy Kelly is also out & Talib is banged up. Their defense is not playing as well as when the Bills played them.

Edward Robinson

10-25-2013, 06:24 PM

We still have to beat the Patriots and Jets to win the division more so the first. To me a win against New Orleans demonstrates that we're making progress from bottom feeders to mediocre. As personally think we're another playmaker or two on offense to be legitimate contenders assuming we can keep guys like Byrd and Kyle Williams playing at above average levels. I'd also like to see us shore up a solid nickel CB and maybe another pass rusher on D.

We are set at Nickle Back. N Robey has that on lock

Bunion

10-26-2013, 02:44 AM

The Saints are at +5 turnovers and they're the 4th or 5th least penalized team in the NFL. They've fumbled 4 times and lost 2. This is a team that doesn't screw up often, so if Pettine & Co. can make them, I think the coaching's for real.

The Saints don't give up big plays either. Doesn't really bother me as long as the Bills push their D-line around.

Hopefully we'll see fewer bull**** segments like this one. NFL PLaybook Bills vs. Saints, and they mention Tommy Terrific more than the Bills.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/0ap2000000269469/Playbook-Bills-vs-Saints

starrymessenger

10-26-2013, 11:01 AM

The Pats* have now lost both Wilfork & Mayo for the rest of the season & Tommy Kelly is also out & Talib is banged up. Their defense is not playing as well as when the Bills played them.
With the injuries on D, the Pats are at best a 50/50 proposition for winning the division IMO.

Luisito23

10-26-2013, 12:24 PM

Pats are winning the division...fantasy if they don't.

Mr. Pink

10-26-2013, 12:27 PM

With the injuries on D, the Pats are at best a 50/50 proposition for winning the division IMO.

There is basically a zero percent chance anyone besides the Pats wins the division.

They'll likely get smacked in the first round of the playoffs however.

starrymessenger

10-26-2013, 01:19 PM

There is basically a zero percent chance anyone besides the Pats wins the division.

They'll likely get smacked in the first round of the playoffs however.
Idk. If no Vince, no Talib, no Mayo, no Kelly. Ammendola has again proven again to be unreliable health wise, don't know that Gronk will be able to open things up for the rookie WRs, Brady showing greater inconsistency...
If the Finns beat them tomorrow their hold on the division will be pretty loose. Contrary to what we are used to seeing when the going gets tough in November and December I would not be surprised if they start to breakdown.

coastal

10-26-2013, 02:33 PM

Wake me up when they beat a Division rival to clinch the AFC East.

BertSquirtgum

10-26-2013, 07:21 PM

I would probably owe it to the Sanits having an off day. It would be a glitch that only weakens the draft for Buffalo.
I would love a win... no doubt but the reality is... If a win happens it is flukey.

I would owe it to the Bills being better prepared and being the better team on Sunday.

I really hope the Bills win just to show the rest of the NFL that they are a young team on rise. Which is what I believe to be true.

better days

10-27-2013, 07:48 AM

I would owe it to the Bills being better prepared and being the better team on Sunday.

I really hope the Bills win just to show the rest of the NFL that they are a young team on rise. Which is what I believe to be true.

I am really EXCITED about this game. If Thad can manage the game & not turn the ball over, I think the Bills will be in the game right up to the end.

If they get a couple bounces their way, I think the Bills can pull off the upset.

The Zone Ranger

10-27-2013, 08:44 AM

why is everybody so pessimistic? This team is playing its best football sense Wade Phillips was head coach. we have been in every game we played so far this year. I can't believe anybody would even consider trading EJ Manuel. I believe this team will make a major step forward in the division and in the conference. it's time to take the bags off our heads and be the Bills fans that support this team.

DraftBoy

10-27-2013, 09:09 AM

I'm with the its a good victory but doesn't change much crowd. This year is all about individual player evaluations not Wins and Losses for me.

better days

10-27-2013, 09:14 AM

I'm with the its a good victory but doesn't change much crowd. This year is all about individual player evaluations not Wins and Losses for me.

IMO, that should not be the case until wins become meaningless. At this point in time, every win has meaning, the Bills are still in the playoff race until further notice.

Novacane

10-27-2013, 02:05 PM

Can the crazy talk stop now?

BuffaloRedleg

10-27-2013, 02:21 PM

Can the crazy talk stop now?

The thread was IF. Not WILL.

Hopefully you will learn to read before you finish 8th grade.

Novacane

10-27-2013, 02:26 PM

The thread was IF. Not WILL.

Hopefully you will learn to read before you finish 8th grade.

I'm so proud of the Bills

BuffaloRedleg

10-27-2013, 02:29 PM

I'm so proud of the Bills

You must be really proud of yourself.

Novacane

10-27-2013, 02:45 PM

Hey bud lets drop it. If you're proud/happy with average that's cool. I'm not. Done here!

BuffaloRedleg

10-27-2013, 02:52 PM

Hey bud lets drop it. If you're proud/happy with average that's cool. I'm not. Done here!

Read the other thread. I'm just having fun with you. I guess I am okay with being average, because this is supposed to be fun and football is not the most important thing in the world. Cheers man.

IlluminatusUIUC

10-27-2013, 03:09 PM

Hey bud lets drop it. If you're proud/happy with average that's cool. I'm not. Done here!

I hate to post spoilers, but this is a six win team.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey bud lets drop it. If you're proud/happy with average that's cool. I'm not. Done here!

I hate to post spoilers, but this is a six win team.

Pinkerton Security

10-27-2013, 03:58 PM

Hey bud lets drop it. If you're proud/happy with average that's cool. I'm not. Done here!

hey ****face - I know you failed reading comprehension, but did you notice the MAJOR IF portion of the thread title? Were you sitting around waiting for the loss, so you could post this BS?

Novacane

10-27-2013, 04:01 PM

hey ****face - I know you failed reading comprehension, but did you notice the MAJOR IF portion of the thread title? Were you sitting around waiting for the loss, so you could post this BS?

Calm down spiller. I actually thought I was bumping the thread about Thad should be starter over EJ if we beat NO.

BillsFever21

10-27-2013, 04:05 PM

On the flipside of the original thread. What does this say about our team since we got our ass kicked? You can't have it both ways. A win means we're a contender but a blowout doesn't mean anything.

gebobs

10-30-2013, 07:09 AM

On the flipside of the original thread. What does this say about our team since we got our ass kicked? You can't have it both ways. A win means we're a contender but a blowout doesn't mean anything.

The Bills walk from that game with a bit of pride. The defense held early when the Saints were repeatedly given the ball on turnovers with good field position. Up to 5 minutes or so left in the half, they held the Saints to just 60 yards of offense. If not for giving up 4 turnovers and grabbing none themselves IIRC, the game would have been much closer. This despite the Bills playing an excitable, young quarterback who probably has no business starting an NFL game.

As far as blowout losses on the road go against a division leader and Super Bowl contender, I'll take it.