Toughness. Marrone has brought toughness, at the very least.

[Forward_Lateral]

Fred Jackson is running his ass off on one good leg. Stevie Johnson limping around, not coming out, making catches on one leg. Thad Lewis got PASTED on the first play of the game, and I am willing to bet every Bills fan watching the game said a collective "Oh crap, here comes Tuel". He came right back in, and had, if nothing else, a gutsy performance. Yes, he sucked at times, and turned the ball over 3 times, 2 of which were inside his own 30.

Either way, I like how tough this team is. Players seem to want to play their butts off for Marrone, and for each other. I hope it continues, it's been a while since the Bills had a physically tough team, IMO.

[imbondz]

I agree. this game was closer than the score, if that is possible. most people will see the score and think we got killed, but we played tough, against a very good team

[Famous Amos]

Here's my take: I think the Bills saw it early on how behind the eight ball they were going to be with the refs calling an awful game, playing away from home, going up against Brees. Out of principle alone, Marrone challenged that second play, I think it was a field position call because of how often the Bills were getting shafted by the refs. There was definitely an issue with pride that I think effected the Bills carried themselves today. I have zero problems with how Buffalo played. These guys had their backs against the wall, no body wanted to be the first guy to leave the game with injury. Everyone was ants to play for their teammates. Its incredibly encouraging. Stevie was running on one bad leg and still made plays. Early on when they were still running, Fred ran hard. Thad continued to pick himself up after getting wrecked every other play.these guys have a lot of pride and didn't want the refs or the NFL to take anything away from them.

[RedEyE]

I think they are a hard playing team with a ton of heart. If they had some passing consistency to better sustain drives sand rest the D more, then who knows where they would be today in terms of record.


I know EJ is young and hurt and Lewis is young and striving to give his best effort but you look at a guy like Drew Brees and just imagine him playing for this Bills team. They would be an increadible force and dominant once again in the division, if not the conference.

[jdaltroy5]

Here's my take: I think the Bills saw it early on how behind the eight ball they were going to be with the refs calling an awful game, playing away from home, going up against Brees. Out of principle alone, Marrone challenged that second play, I think it was a field position call because of how often the Bills were getting shafted by the refs. There was definitely an issue with pride that I think effected the Bills carried themselves today. I have zero problems with how Buffalo played. These guys had their backs against the wall, no body wanted to be the first guy to leave the game with injury. Everyone was ants to play for their teammates. Its incredibly encouraging. Stevie was running on one bad leg and still made plays. Early on when they were still running, Fred ran hard. Thad continued to pick himself up after getting wrecked every other play.these guys have a lot of pride and didn't want the refs or the NFL to take anything away from them.You keep saying the refs were making awful calls, but I just didn't see it.

The only bad call they made was holding on Chandler.

Other than that, I think they actually called a good game.

[BillsFever21]

You keep saying the refs were making awful calls, but I just didn't see it.

The only bad call they made was holding on Chandler.

Other than that, I think they actually called a good game.

It's just the weekly "the refs are out to screw us" threads/posts that we see after every loss.

[RedEyE]

There were some missed calls on both sides of the ball. Out of the entire game I didn't like the defensive holding call, and I was none too pleased with the botched TD that Freddy got, the first time. Outside of that the refs suck in every game.

[Famous Amos]

You keep saying the refs were making awful calls, but I just didn't see it.

The only bad call they made was holding on Chandler.

Other than that, I think they actually called a good game.

There was a horse collar that should have been called on a Goodwin catch. Several missed holding calls. I guess its the offensive holding non calls that bother me the most. I know that's not unique to just Buffalo, but just because offensive holding isn't called for other teams doesn't mean we shouldn't be upset about them either. Its not fair that the Saints are allowed to cheat against our defense.

[jdaltroy5]

There was a horse collar that should have been called on a Goodwin catch. Several missed holding calls. I guess its the offensive holding non calls that bother me the most. I know that's not unique to just Buffalo, but just because offensive holding isn't called for other teams doesn't mean we shouldn't be upset about them either. Its not fair that the Saints are allowed to cheat against our defense.
They gave them 4 holding penalties today. I actually think they did a much better job than usual on that because they always ignore that.

And if the Goodwin one is the same one I'm thinking of, where the safety made some half hearted attempt at a tackle, that wasn't a horse collar. The guy's hands have to be inside Goodwin's shoulder pads, which they weren't.

[Famous Amos]

They gave them 4 holding penalties today. I actually think they did a much better job than usual on that because they always ignore that.

And if the Goodwin one is the same one I'm thinking of, where the safety made some half hearted attempt at a tackle, that wasn't a horse collar. The guy's hands have to be inside Goodwin's shoulder pads, which they weren't.
No it was a catch on the right sidelines

[jdaltroy5]

No it was a catch on the right sidelinesCan't think of the one you're talking about.

Either way, I don't think the refs cost us this game by any means. They gave them 8 penalties to our 6. Some at crucial points too, like the RTP on third down (twice I think).

[BillsFever21]

How about the two false start penalties called on Brees? They had a 3rd and 1 which eventually backed them up 3rd and 11? I can't remember the last time I've seen them calls made. Them calls backed the Saints up where the eventually missed the FG. If not for them then they probably get the 1st down and most likely a touchdown.

If them calls were made on us then everyone would be screaming the refs were screwing us. We had a facemask penalty on Brees that also wasn't called. I don't hear the "refs screw the Bills" weekly posters mentioning them.

[Mr. Pink]

The refs suck both ways in every game. They make phantom calls, they miss obvious ones. Throughout a game, much less a season, the calls tend to even out.

Anyone who thinks a team with a future HOF QB needs the refs to help them win is delusional and/or high.

[PTI]

Bills do not come close to hitting as hard as other teams do. The Jets physically embarrassed the Bills. I know everyone loves Kiko, and I do too, but there is a play he could have laid out the Saints receiver with a clean shot and he held up short. You need to take shots. Especially at the QB. Bills penalties are usually stupid penalties, the other team's penalties are from being super aggressive. This team does not have a killer instinct at all. THey might not give up, and commentators comment on that, but think about if they did give up. Seriously, they would not have jobs then. They are supposed to compete, they get paid to compete. Bills get beat in almost every one on one situation.

You are dead wrong, this team is still physically challenged.

[BertSquirtgum]

I think it's dumb to keep players out of the field that are hurt. Stevie should not have still been on the field.

[BillsFever21]

I think it's dumb to keep players out of the field that are hurt. Stevie should not have still been on the field.

When it gets the point where they can't even barely walk like it did with Spiller and Stevie today then it's just moronic. All you're doing is putting them at further risk, prolonging the injury and keeping a healthy player off the field that may be able to contribute.

[SpikedLemonade]

It's just the weekly "the refs are out to screw us" threads/posts that we see after every loss.

I think the refs also stole the insurance industry out of the City of Buffalo in the 50's and the steel industry in the 70's.

Pollock logic.

[YardRat]

I like their toughness, and their fight.

[BillsFever21]

I think the refs also stole the insurance industry out of the City of Buffalo in the 50's and the steel industry in the 70's.

Pollock logic.

It's just the people who only look at our penalties and not the opposing teams penalties. Hell we can lose against the Jets who were called for 20 penalties for 168 yards and the same people will blame the refs for one of the penalties called on us or not called on them.

[Fixxxer]

I agree. this game was closer than the score, if that is possible. most people will see the score and think we got killed, but we played tough, against a very good team

I feel that way after the fact, they had the HOF QB and we didn't.

[cookie G]

Jauron's teams played hard and were noted for keeping (some) games close. Their problems were two fold 1) he purposely wanted a small D front 7, that would get pushed around by even average teams; and 2) His offensive vision was to hold onto the ball, but score about 10 points a game..and win 10-7. They were only going to be so good.

Gailey's teams played hard for a while...his first year they had a lot of close losses, and in their 5-2 start, had several come from behind wins, including NE; But his defense never did live up to its potential and his offensive talent was extremely limited.

This team has the potential to go further than either of them. There is actual talent at each level on D...(as opposed to just the secondary under Jauron), AND they are playing with effort (unlike Gailey's teams).

For once, there is bona fide talent on offense..(though they still need at least 2 linemen).

But for them to take the next step...they need to eliminate the stupid little things that have been killing them. 1 facemask and 2 holding calls (1 on Hughes on D and 1 on Chandler) created a swing of 21 points. They aren't good enough to overcome stuff like that.

The effort is there, but I think they need to shift their mentality to the Lombardi saying "we strive for perfection and hope to find excellence along the way".

Half hearted blocks, missing a hole, blown assignments on D..inopportune penalties...they need a big reduction in those type of plays to take the next step. Everyone needs to take the attitude that they aren't going to be the one that screws something up.

It applies to coaching too. Everyone knew Rob Ryan was going to apply the heat, but for nearly 2 quarters, there was no answer for it. What should have been countered with screen passes and quick slants to a hot receiver...weren't. The two challenges ...well...they were going to need the time outs.

There is a lot to be optimistic about, despite their record..but taking the next step is an unknown..at least to me.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Well, I'm not embarrassed of this team like I was last year. I've never hated a team as much as I did the Bills after that SF loss last year.

I have that going for me I guess!

[Bunion]

At a minimum, the O-Line and Special Teams coaches should know that they're coaching for their jobs, assuming they aren't dead men walking already. Hackett, too, needs to pick his game up. We know Robert Woods is a weapon, is it that teams are focusing on him rather than SJ, or is he used incorrectly?

We've got dead wood to cut back in terms of players and talent. Doug's gotta do both.

[Jaybird]

At a minimum, the O-Line and Special Teams coaches should know that they're coaching for their jobs, assuming they aren't dead men walking already. Hackett, too, needs to pick his game up. We know Robert Woods is a weapon, is it that teams are focusing on him rather than SJ, or is he used incorrectly?

We've got dead wood to cut back in terms of players and talent. Doug's gotta do both.

Thad doesn't look for Wood like EJ did... I think thats the issue, not the play calling

[imbondz]

I can't figure this team out. We have zero identity. Until we have one we'll see more of the same.

[Typ0]

I think they play hard and leave it all on the field. There are a lot of issues to work on...but I do see the team improving too. I kept thinking during the game today they are headed in the right direction and if this continues they are going to be a much better team next year.

[better days]

Well, I hope the Thad lovefest is over. Anyone that thinks Thad is better than EJ is an IDIOT.

I agree Marrone has the team headed in the right direction & can't wait for EJ to get healthy.

[Mr. Pink]

Well, I hope the Thad lovefest is over. Anyone that thinks Thad is better than EJ is an IDIOT.

I agree Marrone has the team headed in the right direction & can't wait for EJ to get healthy.

JP Losman was better than EJ. Being better than EJ isn't saying much.

[better days]

JP Losman was better than EJ. Being better than EJ isn't saying much.

Yeah, you really know how to evaluate QB's especially after only 4 games. That is a God given GIFT.

You do work for the Cleveland Browns right?

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, you really know how to evaluate QB's especially after only 4 games. That is a God given GIFT.

You do work for the Cleveland Browns right?

Well in however long it takes the Bills organization to figure out that EJ is bum, I'll be sure to tell you I told you so.

Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

The objective is to win. Everyone wants to win. With EJ you ain't winning jack.

[better days]

Well in however long it takes the Bills organization to figure out that EJ is bum, I'll be sure to tell you I told you so.

Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

The objective is to win. Everyone wants to win. With EJ you ain't winning jack.

EJ MAY turn out to be a bum, but after FOUR games, you do NOT KNOW that.

You are saying it now in case it turns out to be true, you can say I told you so.

Well, if he turns out to be better than a bum, I will say I told you so to you.

[psubills62]

@smartfootball: Agree RT @SigmundBloom (http://www.twitter.com/SigmundBloom) I want things to work out for the #Bills. No matter how undermanned or down they are, always play with so much fight

Just found it interesting.

[mayotm]

Well in however long it takes the Bills organization to figure out that EJ is bum, I'll be sure to tell you I told you so.

Hopefully they figure it out sooner rather than later.

The objective is to win. Everyone wants to win. With EJ you ain't winning jack.This is the beauty of making doom and gloom predictions about the team you cheer for. If Mr. Pink's prediction is correct, he gets to tell us "I told you so". If he's wrong, he gets to shrug it off and enjoy the fact that EJ isn't a bum because he's a fan and it's good for the team. It's win win.

[jdaltroy5]

This is the beauty of making doom and gloom predictions about the team you cheer for. If Mr. Pink's prediction is correct, he gets to tell us "I told you so". If he's wrong, he gets to shrug it off and enjoy the fact that EJ isn't a bum because he's a fan and it's good for the team. It's win win.
It's hedging your bets emotionally. I understand that.

It's the real jerks that cheer for the team to lose so that they can be right.

[Victor7]

You keep saying the refs were making awful calls, but I just didn't see it.

The only bad call they made was holding on Chandler.

Other than that, I think they actually called a good game.

I happen to think they screwed up on the Jackson non TD call. It was obvious he scored. But it made no difference at the end of the day. We scored on that drive anyway. Rest of the game was called ok in my book. McKauley is actually one of the few good refs the NFL has.

[better days]

I happen to think they screwed up on the Jackson non TD call. It was obvious he scored. But it made no difference at the end of the day. We scored on that drive anyway. Rest of the game was called ok in my book. McKauley is actually one of the few good refs the NFL has.

Well, the Bills were called on a BS hold by Chandler on a play that would have put points on the board while the Saints were HOLDING Mario all game long without getting called for it.

Holding could have been called on the Saints on EVERY pass play.

[jdaltroy5]

I happen to think they screwed up on the Jackson non TD call. It was obvious he scored. But it made no difference at the end of the day. We scored on that drive anyway. Rest of the game was called ok in my book. McKauley is actually one of the few good refs the NFL has.That Jackson play was really tough to call. The ball was buried in a guy who was buried by a swarm of players.

The replay wasn't nearly conclusive enough to warrant an overturn either.

It looked like he got in, but it was way too hard to tell.

[Victor7]

Well, the Bills were called on a BS hold by Chandler on a play that would have put points on the board while the Saints were HOLDING Mario all game long without getting called for it.

Holding could have been called on the Saints on EVERY pass play.

I actually think Chandler did hold on that play. But holding is such a judgment call its hard to tell. Anyway I really don't think refs screwed us this time. There's def been times they have. Not yesterday IMO.

[Victor7]

That Jackson play was really tough to call. The ball was buried in a guy who was buried by a swarm of players.

The replay wasn't nearly conclusive enough to warrant an overturn either.

It looked like he got in, but it was way too hard to tell.

Well from the side replay you can see Fred's entire torso cross the plane. I mean where else is he going to be holding the ball ??? I realize it wasn't clear as day because you can't see the ball. But sometimes you just have to use common sense and not be a tool. Refs were tools on that play. But like I said, we scored a play later. It had no effect on the game.

[better days]

I actually think Chandler did hold on that play. But holding is such a judgment call its hard to tell. Anyway I really don't think refs screwed us this time. There's def been times they have. Not yesterday IMO.

Well, he hooked the guy for a short period of time. I doubt it made any difference in the play & I think it would have been a TD if Chandler did not touch the guy.

But as I said, Mario was held all game long & on TD passes as well. There was one in particular Brees had so much time, I think every Bill on the DL must have been held.

[jdaltroy5]

Well, the Bills were called on a BS hold by Chandler on a play that would have put points on the board while the Saints were HOLDING Mario all game long without getting called for it.

Holding could have been called on the Saints on EVERY pass play.They can call holding on pass plays for both teams though.

They actually gave them 4 holding penalties.

[jdaltroy5]

Well from the side replay you can see Fred's entire torso cross the plane. I mean where else is he going to be holding the ball ??? I realize it wasn't clear as day because you can't see the ball. But sometimes you just have to use common sense and not be a tool. Refs were tools on that play. But like I said, we scored a play later. It had no effect on the game.Yeah, but that was a high up angle that we got to see it from. If we had the same view from 6' in the air with a swarm of monster sized men in front of us, it wouldn't have been that easy.

Either way, that play didn't matter and we can agree that the refs weren't the reason that we lost that game.

[better days]

They can call holding on pass plays for both teams though.

They actually gave them 4 holding penalties.

Agreed. But it seems every time a holding penalty is calld against the Bills it is when they make an IMPORTANT play, like a TD or 3rd down conversion to keep a late game drive alive.

While holding calls against teams like the Saints or Pats* come when they did NOT pick up the 3rd down or other plays that don't really matter.

[Beebe's Kid]

Agreed. But it seems every time a holding penalty is calld against the Bills it is when they make an IMPORTANT play, like a TD or 3rd down conversion to keep a late game drive alive.

While holding calls against teams like the Saints or Pats* come when they did NOT pick up the 3rd down or other plays that don't really matter.

This is what we call homerism. This team ****ing sucks...they will not get the calls. When the Bills were good, they got the calls. They SUCK so the DON'T. It isn't too HARD to GRASP.

If this team is TOUGH...that is CUTE, but they still don't WIN, which is what is IMPORTANT. It also isn't the REFS fault that they BILLS can't EXECUTE their PLAYS.

[better days]

This is what we call homerism. This team ****ing sucks...they will not get the calls. When the Bills were good, they got the calls. They SUCK so the DON'T. It isn't too HARD to GRASP.

If this team is TOUGH...that is CUTE, but they still don't WIN, which is what is IMPORTANT. It also isn't the REFS fault that they BILLS can't EXECUTE their PLAYS.

Calling penalties at CRITICAL times has NOTHING to do with execution.

Some teams win because of penalties called in their FAVOR at critical times while other teams lose because of penalties called against them at critical times. FACT.