Bad Call on the 1: Run it 3 times

[Mahdi]

Several have brought up the point in other threads but I think this is important. Marrone should have played situational football at that point and worst case take the 3 points if Jackson doesn't get in with 3 carries.

Rookie QB with accuracy issues and is very inconsistent in decision making. You are in very tight on the 1 against a ball hawking defense. JUST RUN IT. If you don't get in you go up 13-3 and let your defense continue playing well. That call was bad and flipped the game on its head.

Whether or not Stevie was open or not is irrelevant, WRs are open all the time, you have to have a QB that can stay calm and make the play. Can Tuel make that throw? Yes, does he have the poise and accuracy to sit in the pocket and see everything clearly while he has 11 defenders within 10 yards of him, No.

[starrymessenger]

Several have brought up the point in other threads but I think this is important. Marrone should have played situational football at that point and worst case take the 3 points if Jackson doesn't get in with 3 carries.

Rookie QB with accuracy issues and is very inconsistent in decision making. You are in very tight on the 1 against a ball hawking defense. JUST RUN IT. If you don't get in you go up 13-3 and let your defense continue playing well. That call was bad and flipped the game on its head.

Whether or not Stevie was open or not is irrelevant, WRs are open all the time, you have to have a QB that can stay calm and make the play. Can Tuel make that throw? Yes, does he have the poise and accuracy to sit in the pocket and see everything clearly while he has 11 defenders within 10 yards of him, No.
True. Every word.

[TrEd FTW]

Nope. Stevie was wide open. Tuel makes the throw and it's a TD.

[Crisis]

If you can't trust your QB to throw on the opponent's goal line then he shouldn't be starting.

[starrymessenger]

Nope. Stevie was wide open. Tuel makes the throw and it's a TD.
Point is calling that play is a bad risk. Asking too much of Tuel. Too many things can go wrong - and did. Take the three points if you fail to score after a more conservative play call.

[YardRat]

I can't argue with the 3run philosophy because I've always been a slam-it-home and show some force proponent at that end of the field. Not necessarily the call I would have made, but it was a good call poorly read and executed by one guy.

[ParanoidAndroid]

This is pure speculation and the truth is that the play should have been an easy one for Tuel. Just running again and taking a field goal is playing to not lose and no way do I want to see that uninspired brand of Jauron football ever again. If the coaches didn't think Tuel was capable of making that throw, they would not have called it. To that point, save a couple of overthrows to Chandler and underthrows on a couple of deeper balls, Tuel was okay. No. I like that Hackett and Marrone continued to be aggressive. They are setting the tone for the game being played and for the future of the team.

[Owen DeBoard]

Nope. Stevie was wide open. Tuel makes the throw and it's a TD.
The way Tuel was overthrowing WRs and WRs dropping passes we dont know if Stevie makes that play even though he was wide open. Run the ball and if you dont get in you get 3 points and up by two scores. Shouldve been a no brainer.

[Mr. Pink]

People fail to see that the reason Stevie Johnson was so wide open is maybe because Tuel locked on Graham the entire time and Smith read it.

A good QB does that and still sees Stevie wide open however.

[starrymessenger]

This is pure speculation and the truth is that the play should have been an easy one for Tuel. Just running again and taking a field goal is playing to not lose and no way do I want to see that uninspired brand of Jauron football ever again. If the coaches didn't think Tuel was capable of making that throw, they would not have called it. To that point, save a couple of overthrows to Chandler and underthrows on a couple of deeper balls, Tuel was okay. No. I like that Hackett and Marrone continued to be aggressive. They are setting the tone for the game being played and for the future of the team.
I too like Hackett's willingness to take chances. You have to be a risk taker. The trick is to take only good risks, not bad ones. Given who was under centre that was a bad risk.

[Homegrown]

People fail to see that the reason Stevie Johnson was so wide open is maybe because Tuel locked on Graham the entire time and Smith read it.

A good QB does that and still sees Stevie wide open however.

can't argue with of that ...hence the reason why Tuel was an undrafted FA ...

[ParanoidAndroid]

The way Tuel was overthrowing WRs and WRs dropping passes we dont know if Stevie makes that play even though he was wide open. Run the ball and if you dont get in you get 3 points and up by two scores. Shouldve been a no brainer.

It's a no brainer in retrospect. If Tuel makes the right read, and tosses it to Stevie, this conversation doesn't happen.

[Owen DeBoard]

It's a no brainer in retrospect. If Tuel makes the right read, and tosses it to Stevie, this conversation doesn't happen.
Yes but it didnt happen. Do you think it makes sense for an undrafted rookie to try and make a play when we didnt need him to especially the way the D was playing?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I too like Hackett's willingness to take chances. You have to be a risk taker. The trick is to take only good risks, not bad ones. Given who was under centre that was a bad risk.

Every risk, by definition has the potential to be good or bad. This is knowledge of the negative outcome and then deciding the risk was 100% bad. You wish they had run it because then it would not have happened. Every football play is a risk. If you want this team to play safe, then go back and watch Dick Jauron coach.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The lack of a linear sense of time, risk and potential outcome in here is staggering.

[Mace]

If you can't trust your QB to throw on the opponent's goal line then he shouldn't be starting.

He shouldn't have been starting and it should have at the least been 13-3. That was the conservative moment of obvious that soon. Then you let Pettine tee off on Smith. You give the ball to a back and if your line can't get in it tells you something about your line and you still get 3 to go up 13-3 and let your defense tee off.

If Tuel doesn't see Johnson waving his arms in his vision 15 feet away, he throws it away and you TAKE 3. That was Tuel's defining moment of obvious.

There was no point in that throw, none none none none if he couldn't see Johnson. There was no one there not wearing red.

[WagonCircler]

If you can't trust your QB to throw on the opponent's goal line then he shouldn't be starting.

You make it sound like they had a choice!

He's only starting because THREE QBS who were supposed to be starters and/or backups are unable to play, due to injury.

The only other guy on the roster has only been here for 2 weeks.

Run the ball. If you don't get in, you get 3 points, KC gets none.

That was the point of no return in this game.

[Turf]

Single back at the goal line doesn't work. You need a blocking fullback in the I. If you can't gain 1 yard on 4 runs with a blocking FB then you deserve to lose. We've lacked a bruising short yardage runner for years that can make that short gain, it kills us year after year. The number of games we could have won if we could convert 3rd and short.

[starrymessenger]

Every risk, by definition has the potential to be good or bad. This is knowledge of the negative outcome and then deciding the risk was 100% bad. You wish they had run it because then it would not have happened. Every football play is a risk. If you want this team to play safe, then go back and watch Dick Jauron coach.
i thought I said I liked Hackett's aggressive play calling. But there is aggressive and then there is foolish.
Obviously any and all risk has potential for a negative outcome. Good risks have a lesser propensity for negative outcomes, bad risks have more. IMO Hackett's decision went beyond reasonable risk tolerances in the circumstances.

[Mace]

i thought I said I liked Hackett's aggressive play calling. But there is aggressive and then there is foolish.
Obviously any and all risk has potential for a negative outcome. Good risks have a lesser propensity for negative outcomes, bad risks have more. IMO Hackett's decision went beyond reasonable risk tolerances in the circumstances.

At that point in the game no doubt about it.

[Mahdi]

If you can't trust your QB to throw on the opponent's goal line then he shouldn't be starting.

I think we all know that Tuel has not earned that kind of trust. Naive to put him in that spot.

[Mace]

I think we all know that Tuel has not earned that kind of trust. Naive to put him in that spot.

At that point in the game, you just freaking run and don't get cutesy, that's a 10 point swing, plus 3 minus 7 if you aren't sure you have a QB who could miss a wide open guy waving his arms 15 feet in front of you, and I don't see any reason to think they couldn't be sure Tuel was RocketArm Shortyardage. Maybe Xerox guy in analytics finds a trend.

[feldspar]

Everyone's an expert in hindsight.

Stevie was WIDE open in a serious way. Tuel is accurate with the short passes. I have no problem with the call itself.

By the way, the same guy that took it the distance the other way is the same guy that screwed up and left Stevie all alone at the back of the endzone.

I would really like to know what the hell Tuel was thinking when he threw that ball, though.

A play-call I DID have a problem with was when the Bills had the ball on 4th-and-4 at the Chief's 35-yardline with a minute-and-a-half to go. Down by 10, you kick the fieldgoal in that situation, and then try for the onside kick. But we went for it instead, and that was the game.

[Mace]

Everyone's an expert in hindsight.

Stevie was WIDE open in a serious way. Tuel is accurate with the short passes. I have no problem with the call itself.

By the way, the same guy that took it the distance the other way is the same guy that screwed up and left Stevie all alone at the back of the endzone.

I would really like to know what the hell Tuel was thinking when he threw that ball, though.

A play-call I DID have a problem with was when the Bills had the ball on 4th-and-4 at the Chief's 35-yardline with a minute-and-a-half to go. Down by 10, you kick the fieldgoal in that situation, and then try for the onside kick. But we went for it instead, and that was the game.

You could see they were already beaten and that was as close as it would get, imho. I figured a 23-20 loss at that point. The game ended on the pick 6.

[feldspar]

You could see they were already beaten and that was as close as it would get, imho. I figured a 23-20 loss at that point. The game ended on the pick 6.

Thank God you are not on the team, Mace.

The game was only tied when the pick six happened. The Chiefs were being outplayed big-time, too. The Chiefs WERE outplayed by quite a bit in this game. The Bills just found new and exciting ways to lose.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings. You need a TD and a FG anyway, so may as well try the fieldgoal. Carpenter is good with the long ones. If you make that, then you are only down one score. Try the onside kick...if you get it, you have the ball near midfield with enough time to try to score a TD. It's simple math. I may be a longshot, but I've seen it happen a million times. I'm just talking about the play-call here.

[Crisis]

Why are people acting like throwing it on the goal line is some sort of huge risk? How many times are there actually interceptions down there? If you're scared to have Tuel throwing the ball in that situation then he SHOULDN'T be on the roster in the first place, let alone starting over Flynn.

If Freddie fumbled on the goal line people would be *****ing about playing not to lose.

Bottom line is the play call resulted in a guy wide open in the end zone, I don't know what more you can ask for from the guy calling plays. It took one of the most idiotic decisions I've ever seen a professional quarterback make to turn that into a disaster. Hackett put Tuel in a position to succeed, he just didn't execute. I'm not even a Hackett fan, either.

[ServoBillieves]

Is Frank Summers hurt? It truly confuses me why they would do the shotgun draw to Fred, the up the middle, and not just shove it in. I had no hindsight with this. When you're at the one you pound it in to the endzone. Give it to one of your 3 experienced backs rather than put it in your UDFA 3rd string QBs hands. Hackett made an absolute full on ****** call. We aren't talking about this game at all and celebrating in a Rep thread ifthey just try one more run. ****, go for it on 4th after a 3rd failed run. Dont care what happened in the Bengals game. Now, with the playcall that came in, If you have to run it, then Tuel finds Stevie or throws it away. Otherwise, all Hackett on that.

[kishoph]

People fail to see that the reason Stevie Johnson was so wide open is maybe because Tuel locked on Graham the entire time and Smith read it.

A good QB does that and still sees Stevie wide open however.


Sure that could happen, but not on this play, the reason Stevie was so wide open is because he put such a move on Smith that he had him trying to jam air. Smith had to fight to regain his balance after he whiffed on Stevie. Still Tuel had no business throwing the ball there.

[CarolinaBill99]

Several have brought up the point in other threads but I think this is important. Marrone should have played situational football at that point and worst case take the 3 points if Jackson doesn't get in with 3 carries.

Rookie QB with accuracy issues and is very inconsistent in decision making. You are in very tight on the 1 against a ball hawking defense. JUST RUN IT. If you don't get in you go up 13-3 and let your defense continue playing well. That call was bad and flipped the game on its head.

Whether or not Stevie was open or not is irrelevant, WRs are open all the time, you have to have a QB that can stay calm and make the play. Can Tuel make that throw? Yes, does he have the poise and accuracy to sit in the pocket and see everything clearly while he has 11 defenders within 10 yards of him, No.

Agreed. You have to know the limitations of your players and keep momentum on your side by being conservative.

[GingerP]

That play was the game. They had a chance to take a 10 or 14 point game, and KC is not a team built to come from behind. Instead, it is tied. That was the whole game right there on one play.

[Victor7]

I've given Hackett some **** before for the play calling but that play yesterday wasn't it. If Tuel makes the right read we score, most likely win the game and this is a non issue. The KC lucky **** even said that it was pure luck. "Christmas come early" I believe is how he described it in an interview I read.

It was Tuel and Tuel alone. In any case give the OL more **** for not being able to give Fred room to run one freaking yard on the other 2 downs.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Several have brought up the point in other threads but I think this is important. Marrone should have played situational football at that point and worst case take the 3 points if Jackson doesn't get in with 3 carries.

Rookie QB with accuracy issues and is very inconsistent in decision making. You are in very tight on the 1 against a ball hawking defense. JUST RUN IT. If you don't get in you go up 13-3 and let your defense continue playing well. That call was bad and flipped the game on its head.

Whether or not Stevie was open or not is irrelevant, WRs are open all the time, you have to have a QB that can stay calm and make the play. Can Tuel make that throw? Yes, does he have the poise and accuracy to sit in the pocket and see everything clearly while he has 11 defenders within 10 yards of him, No.

Gotta love revisionist history. We run it 3 times and get stuffed this thread has a completely different title.... What as a NFL team we can't throw the ball? It was a great call, as SJ was wide open, but horrible execution.

[imbondz]

It was a perfect call, 99% of the team executed perfectly except Tuel. It looked like a girl threw it. SJ was ******edly wide open.

[Mr. Pink]

Gotta love revisionist history. We run it 3 times and get stuffed this thread has a completely different title.... What as a NFL team we can't throw the ball? It was a great call, as SJ was wide open, but horrible execution.

Nah. This thread doesn't exist if we run 3 times and get stuffed.

Because the game ends up being 13-3 instead of 10-10.

And the Bills likely go on to victory.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Several have brought up the point in other threads but I think this is important. Marrone should have played situational football at that point and worst case take the 3 points if Jackson doesn't get in with 3 carries.

Rookie QB with accuracy issues and is very inconsistent in decision making. You are in very tight on the 1 against a ball hawking defense. JUST RUN IT. If you don't get in you go up 13-3 and let your defense continue playing well. That call was bad and flipped the game on its head.

Whether or not Stevie was open or not is irrelevant, WRs are open all the time, you have to have a QB that can stay calm and make the play. Can Tuel make that throw? Yes, does he have the poise and accuracy to sit in the pocket and see everything clearly while he has 11 defenders within 10 yards of him, No. If I recall correctly, and I could be wrong, the D was expecting pass all the way, all Tuel had to do was carefully wrap up the ball and try to bang it in. That being said, I was thinking 3 runs and go up ten is a good call. Especially how stingy our D was.

[Buffalogic]

I've been blasting Hackett all year for bad play calling, but this is not an example of it. Stevie was wide open. The play worked. A monkey should have been able to make that read and pass. Hell a backup RB in Tampa was able to make it work...

Give it a rest.

[JoeMama]

This team is so frustrating.

They're obviously playing better football than they have in the recent past. Outside of New Orleans, they've kept every game close.

But they can't shake the little black cloud that compels them to lose winnable games in painfully awkward ways.

[Mace]

Thank God you are not on the team, Mace.

The game was only tied when the pick six happened. The Chiefs were being outplayed big-time, too. The Chiefs WERE outplayed by quite a bit in this game. The Bills just found new and exciting ways to lose.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings. You need a TD and a FG anyway, so may as well try the fieldgoal. Carpenter is good with the long ones. If you make that, then you are only down one score. Try the onside kick...if you get it, you have the ball near midfield with enough time to try to score a TD. It's simple math. I may be a longshot, but I've seen it happen a million times. I'm just talking about the play-call here.

To beat a dead, buried horse, probably you are right. I don't really agree with what you think might have happened, but this was my wish game, I saw it so winnable, and still don't grasp why we didn't. I can't objectively even look at this game anymore, it wounded me so profoundly after 42 years (omg) of woundings. If I was on the team I would have either spontaneously combusted or tried to fight my way up to the booth to choke Hackett (who is obviously not yet so terrible), though I wouldn't have assaulted Marrone because he's the big boss and it must have been someone elses fault.

But I can't even look at this game reasonably and will from this point on pretend it never happened so it does not keep unhinging me. Whenever I have a reasonably reasonable thought about it, that game was still so over and done on the pick 6, that it was over and done on the pick 6.

The Fat Lady began a singing, turn out the lights the party was over, and the pathos is just too much for me.

[Skooby]

The game ended when they announced Tuel was the starter, giving him any level of tight play with his inexperience is a doomsday scenario. If you're throwing down the field, he could be ok but it's gets real sticky with all the players bunched up & that's where experience takes over. It's tough to risk a TD lead with an assured FG to go up 10 at home & considering how the game was going at that time, it's way too risky.