Where do we go from here? Realistically what the Bills will do...

[X-Era]

So, the question is what do the Bills do going forward? Where are the issues?

Some of you want to can EJ after a bad game but you need to wake up and be realistic. The Bills are not going to spend all that time vetting the guy, drafting him, developing him, and trusting in him and then can him after one bad game when he just came back from being out for 4 weeks. But it does point to another issue in my mind... Depth.

To me it's about where are we at, what do we need, and then what are we likely to do. Some of you will issue the token sky is falling responses and that the Bills will suck forever. But this thread is more about taking an honest look at it and thinking rationally.

The rest of the season: Go into evaluation mode after the next loss. Develop young players on the field but expect sloppy play and losses. Start EJ throughout the rest of the year.
The right move: The aforementioned.
The Bills move: Probably the same.

Front office:
Whaley hasn't made any signature moves to make us way better when we needed it. He did however end up with a steal in trading Shepp who was garbage for Hughes. This years draft has out performed expectations. If Whaley can improve his ability to upgrade positions and most importantly the depth and shift from asking late round rookies and UDFA's to be primary backups we will be fine here.
The right move: Get on Whaley to spend more money and upgrade the backups with more proven options.
The Bills move: Stay the course.

Coaches:
Marrone's going to get one more year at least. It may be too early to fully assess Marrone. He's made bad choices with his red flags, hasn't motivated the team to close out games, hasn't gotten the mentality over the hump. But, he has put a team on the field that does not look lost for the most part even though they have an all new everything. They look physically ready and have not looked gassed in any game. He's had many young guys overachieve at times but not consistently. Pettine has done a fantastic job and the defense has the potential to be very good. If Marrone is fired we ought to look long and hard at Pettine as a possible head coach. He may not last long until he gets a head coaching gig in the league anyway. Hackett's offense has never really materialized. It's not been the fast paced, productive O that moves up and down the field and score on anyone that it supposedly would be. The run game has been very effective but we thought it should be with two very good backs.
The right move: Stick with Marrone and Pettine. Ditch Hackett and get a solid O coordinator with more experience to run an offense that better suits the talent.
The Bills move: Stay the course.

QB:
The truth is we, right now, on this team have no solid vet #2 QB. We have no legit backup at QB at all actually. What should have happened is EJ gets injured but our vet #2 QB comes in and wins the KC game at least and possibly more one and were going into this game at 5 and 4. And half way through this game when it was clear EJ was just not on his game, we could have benched him for our solid backup and possibly still won this game. Could we do that? No. That quality depth wasn't there. Lewis is our #3 and Tuel belongs out of the NFL. A guy like Kolb was the right answer but we don't have that guy. I really think Kolb will retired and the Bills will be looking for a solid vet backup this off-season.
The right move: Sign a legit solid #2 backup QB in the off-season who can win games in QB game management mode if EJ gets hurt or if he's having a bad game. It's too early to draft a whole new early round QB. Not enough games to properly evaluate Manuel.
The Bills move: The same as the right move. Really depends on Kolb but it'll either be Kolb or we will go after a solid vet as our #2.

WR:
Here we are again with no quality depth. I realize we want a young team since we have a huge hurdle to get over with an all new everything. But, Stevie is a primary receiver and Woods goes out and then we have what? Nothing. Graham and Goodwin have done little to nothing to show they can be an every down WR in this league. Both can run a fly route, catch the ball, and out run defenders. That's great. But that's one or maybe two plays a game. The vast majority of snaps will be in traffic and much shorter. Neither has shown they can be solid in that area. Woods definitely has. And so what we need is either a proven vet with size and speed or a rookie that's bigger over faster. A guy who can get off the physical corners and can get open in shorter routes. We don't have to have a guy who strictly a possession receiver. It can be a quick guy. But it should be someone with better size. Another Robert Woods would be ideal.
The right move: Sign or draft a guy with better size but plenty fast like Marqise Lee or Sammy Watkins.
The Bills move: Likely nothing. They'll stick with their choices in Graham and Goodwin

RB:
Spiller must be injured still. We're going with Freddy a lot and this wasn't his best game. He missed some holes and ran tentative at times. Freddy belongs here and Spiller will get back to being Spiller. I'd like to see a young option with fresh legs and some size and speed.
The right move: Maybe nothing, possibly a later round speed and size RB
The Bills move: Maybe the same

TE:
Chandler made a few plays but just is not a high quality receiving threat. Gragg made a bad drop and may not be the answer either. Having a receiving TE who can out run LB's and blow over S's is a nice thing to have. This could take the pressure of a young QB and give him a legit short area option.
The right move: Sign or draft a legit receiving TE in an early round.
The Bills move: Probably to draft on in a mid-round. The Bills like to get impact positions earlier and could ignore it in favor of other positions.

OL:
The O line did a decent job and has played well most of the games. There is a contingent of fans that will never be satisfied with what we have but also won't have specific solutions when pressed as to what they think we should do. What we do know is that Legursky isn't good enough to be our solid starter long term. Pears plays questionable at times.
The right move: Get a legit starting LG and a solid vet to push Pears if Hairston is never coming back. Add in a few rookies to push for depth spots.
The Bills move: Could be the same but they are more likely to go with a mid rounder to push Legursky instead of an early rounder and then not add quality vet depth.

DL:
Not much is needed here. Branch is a solid vet backup and Carrington will be back eventually. The question will be whether Carrington is re-signed. If he is we're probably fine.
The right move: Re-sign Carrington
The Bills move: The same

LB:
Alonso is a stud and Lawson has been solid. Hughes has been a very nice add for his rushing abilities. To think that we got him by trading away Shepp who was garbage was a major steal in my opinion. All that said, we need play-makers who can at the very least play in waves. Adding a very good play-maker to play along Alonso would be very helpful. We still have to deal with the underneath routes from receiving TE's like Gronk. We need a guy who's gifted at rushing the passer and is also fast enough and fluid enough to stay with TE's.
The right move: Sign a high profile play-maker at OLB or draft one in an early round.
The Bills move: Draft a OLB early or in a mid-round.

DB:
The backfield is finally back together and back from injury. But again it begs the question as to why we ever though Rogers or Brooks could be good enough to play at #2 CB. It's been inadequate depth. Also, Gilmore looks rusty and hasn't gotten back to his old self yet. We all know he will. McKelvin can play solid but can also be beat. Byrd looks like he's finally back. Aaron Williams looks like a very good S. The question is really what will the Bills do about Byrd. I think time may heal the wound here and that Byrd will reach an agreement with the Bills.
The right move: Re-sign Byrd. Add a veteran backup who can play even as high as #2 CB or draft one in an earlier round.
The Bills move: Re-sign Byrd. Ignore CB until a mid-round. End up playing UFA's when injury happens.

Overall, the team is decent and on the right track. There's no way to know yet whether EJ is good enough we will just have to hit the pass button on his fate until we see way more even though it's such a critical position. I think we'll see sloppy play at times and more frustrating games. We'll be a frustrating team because we'll get close but not finish probably several more times. It's a statement about who we are... building but not quite there yet. A good team with a good group but lacking just enough to keep us out of real contention. If EJ develops into a above average starter, we add a few play-makers, and we bolster our depth with quality who can play solid if we get injuries, we can be a playoff team. We're not that far off but we have to change the way we typically do business.

[EDS]

I think the Bills should bring in a veteran QB to back-up EJ next year. I am actually thinking of someone well past their prime, but who was a cerebral player who was a great locker room guy and good leader. I don't expect this aging veteran to challenge EJ for the starting job and fully realize it would be a disaster if he actually had to play. That said, it just needs to be someone who can be a good sounding board for EJ. EJ needs a more grizziled presence in his ear since Hackett is so young and inexperienced.

[justasportsfan]

My thoughts right now is to draft another qb to compete with EJ.

The success of ANY team starts and ends with a qb.

[jdaltroy5]

BPA at pretty much any position in every round.

[ServoBillieves]

*Ahem*.

QB: Start EJ, see how he does. If he goes Gabbert on us, then draft one ASAP in 2014 or start Thad. A decent backup would be nice, and cut Tuel.
HB: Cerberus stays intact. Make sure Fred doesn't retire.
WR: A big plus to this season if they can all stay healthy. As of now, we've seen Stevie, Robert, and Marquise injured and hurt games. Try Hogan, keep Easley at least for special teams, and maybe draft a late round tall redzone threat.
TE: Painful. Chandler looked good coming in, still is halfway decent, but can't be relied on. Critical drops even though he makes big plays. Lee is dump-worthy, and Gragg scored yesterday but that's it.
OL: I think it was finally said what smart fans and coaches can see. If Hairston is healthy and 100% we have a great RT. Glenn is good, Urbik is good, Wood has been getting devoured though... so might be a look. Legurskey has been injured, so let's see how he pans out.

DL: Best part of this team. I think everyone forgets how dominating Al Carrington was before his injury. The haters on Dareus can take a look at a Williams/Williams/Carrington D-line and not think that's going to manifest a sack or 8?
LB: I'm done with the Legend of Kiko crap. The guy wants to play football and does. Don't dilute his above average play with distraction. He is an unreal athlete with a great head on his shoulders and a great football player. He will be gone at the end of his contract. Meanwhile, Bradham has been the weak spot where Jerry and Manny have had stout seasons. Hell, even Mr. Moats has been heads up on some short yardage stops.
CB: If Jauron hadn't drafted this many ... oh wait... No we just have crappy DB's. Gilmore has been atrocious and Rogers was a joke. On the other side of the coin, McKelvin seems serviceable, Robey has been a GREAT addition, and Brooks is a ghost but has no foot to stand on.
S: Williams has been great this year. He deserves his 2nd round status with how he's made up for his awfulness before. Byrd is a pussy, but Leonhard stepped in and made plays. It's nice to have a solid veteran back there. Searcy is a question mark, so are the rooks beneath them, but I'm very happy with Aaron Williams progress.

LS: Who cares
K: Get Hopkins back
P: Time to move on from Moorman after that debacle.

Injury free, this team would've been much different this year, but here we are yet again with a detailed injury report of essential cogs in the system being out.

Injuries damn this team to hell. So let's just get some depth.

[WagonCircler]

Some of you want to can EJ after a bad game but you need to wake up and be realistic..

One bad game? The reality, since we're speaking realistically, is that EJ has not, other than one well timed drive, had any good games. His inaccuracy and carelessness with the football have been his only consistent traits.

His problems are not rookie adjustment problems. They're hard wired problems that, if they haven't been address by now, are not fixable. This is not the time for on the job mechanics training. This is the time to be mastering the art of reading Defenses and adjusting to the speed of the pro game.

I say we keep drafting QBs at #1 until we get it right. Should EJ compete for the starting job next year? Sure. Against a newly drafted QB.

[Pinkerton Security]

One bad game? The reality, since we're speaking realistically, is that EJ has not, other than one well timed drive, had any good games. His inaccuracy and carelessness with the football have been his only consistent traits.

His problems are not rookie adjustment problems. They're hard wired problems that, if they haven't been address by now, are not fixable. This is not the time for on the job mechanics training. This is the time to be mastering the art of reading Defenses and adjusting to the speed of the pro game.

I say we keep drafting QBs at #1 until we get it right. Should EJ compete for the starting job next year? Sure. Against a newly drafted QB.

EJ sucked yesterday, but the bold statement above (no pun intended) is simply untrue. Decision making can be fixed; his accuracy has been suspect at best but he seems to be erring way too far on the side of caution with throws.

[Uncle Jesse]

It's going to take people and the Bills front office this year, and probably all of next season to realize Manuel isn't a franchise QB. Then we'll draft one in the 2015 draft, and start this process all over again. You could see it coming a mile away.

[jdaltroy5]

It's going to take people and the Bills front office this year, and probably all of next season to realize Manuel isn't a franchise QB. Then we'll draft one in the 2015 draft, and start this process all over again. You could see it coming a mile away.
Which is fine.

What's the alternative? Draft a good player at another position, hope the team gets 6 or 7 wins and draft the 4th best QB next year?

If EJ sucks next year, we'll be able to grab a top QB in the 2015 class.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It's going to take people and the Bills front office this year, and probably all of next season to realize Manuel isn't a franchise QB. Then we'll draft one in the 2015 draft, and start this process all over again. You could see it coming a mile away.

Hey, at least we started this process. At the beginning of the Gailey era the choices were "Rehabilitate Fitzpatrick or Edwards?"

We neglected the QB position for almost a decade and I'm glad we finally are attempting to address it. That said, you can't stop now.

[WagonCircler]

EJ sucked yesterday, but the bold statement above (no pun intended) is simply untrue. Decision making can be fixed; his accuracy has been suspect at best but he seems to be erring way too far on the side of caution with throws.

I don't know what games you're watching, but EJ has consistently missed BADLY in every situation, regardless of pressure or tight coverage, and from what I keep reading, he had the same problem throughout his college career.

Over the past couple of years, we've seen rookies come in, start right away, and play very well. EJ hasn't even played well enough to merit a starting job.

I don't think he has it in him to fix his accuracy problems, but either way, bring in a QB and let EJ prove he can throw the ball accurately. If he can right himself, great. He wins the competition. If he can't, then at least there's a plan B.

I've seen enough passes being caught by cameramen and bouncing at the feet of open receivers.

EJ sucks worse than Thad or Tuel.

[justasportsfan]

Coaches:

The right move: Stick with Marrone and Pettine. Ditch Hackett and get a solid O coordinator with more experience to run an offense that better suits the talent.
The Bills move: Stay the course.
[B][I]

Now that we've had 3 qb's run HAckett's offense, I'm starting to think Hackett isn't the problem. Thad and Tuel has been able to move the ball with limited snaps with the 1st string offense compared to EJ .

Thad runs Hackett's read option better too.

Hiring a proven OC won't do anything when the qb is gunshy. If your QB is only willing to throw to open receivers and not willing to let your receivers make plays, I don't care who your OC is. Receivers aren't always going to be open.

[Captain Obvious]

The one problem i have with your analysis X Era is what do you consider to a early Round pick? Im assuming a 1st and 2nd Round pick and maybe a 3rd round pick? Becasue in your analysis you only predict the Bills to address OLB with a early Round pick.. The rest of your predictions are the bills addressing a position with a midround pick (CB,OL,TE)

[Uncle Jesse]

What's the alternative?

If EJ sucks next year, we'll be able to grab a top QB in the 2015 class.

Draft one every year until you hit. The options are much better this year. Trade up or down. Nothing else will matter until you get the QB.

[Mr. Pink]

Realistically?

Byrd will be tagged and traded or just let walk.

We'll stay the course at QB and get another top 10 pick.

We'll draft a safety in round 1 to replace Byrd.

[Meathead]

marrone is on record saying that hes very confident ej is going to be fine so hes definitely going to stick with him. they also had a very good audition from the thaddiator who showed enough to be given a serious chance if ej continues his regression. personally i think thats the right way to go as well, give ej time and continue to develop the other young guys behind him to see if they emerge

the coaching tree marrone comes from likes to carry three qbs when they can to continually keep one or two in development. they wont even start looking to replace ej in the draft until after another full season to see exactly what hes got. but they certainly could see what they could do about upgrading the other two qb spots. thadd seems safe, tuel better hope he gets another chance and nails it cuz his stock is way down

zero chance they draft a qb high unless something freaky happens

[Buffs lows]

Lose on Sunday. Manuel will be running for his life. It will be worse than the first Jets game by a long shot.

[EDS]

*Ahem*.

QB: Start EJ, see how he does. If he goes Gabbert on us, then draft one ASAP in 2014 or start Thad. A decent backup would be nice, and cut Tuel.
HB: Cerberus stays intact. Make sure Fred doesn't retire.
WR: A big plus to this season if they can all stay healthy. As of now, we've seen Stevie, Robert, and Marquise injured and hurt games. Try Hogan, keep Easley at least for special teams, and maybe draft a late round tall redzone threat.
TE: Painful. Chandler looked good coming in, still is halfway decent, but can't be relied on. Critical drops even though he makes big plays. Lee is dump-worthy, and Gragg scored yesterday but that's it.
OL: I think it was finally said what smart fans and coaches can see. If Hairston is healthy and 100% we have a great RT. Glenn is good, Urbik is good, Wood has been getting devoured though... so might be a look. Legurskey has been injured, so let's see how he pans out.

DL: Best part of this team. I think everyone forgets how dominating Al Carrington was before his injury. The haters on Dareus can take a look at a Williams/Williams/Carrington D-line and not think that's going to manifest a sack or 8?
LB: I'm done with the Legend of Kiko crap. The guy wants to play football and does. Don't dilute his above average play with distraction. He is an unreal athlete with a great head on his shoulders and a great football player. He will be gone at the end of his contract. Meanwhile, Bradham has been the weak spot where Jerry and Manny have had stout seasons. Hell, even Mr. Moats has been heads up on some short yardage stops.
CB: If Jauron hadn't drafted this many ... oh wait... No we just have crappy DB's. Gilmore has been atrocious and Rogers was a joke. On the other side of the coin, McKelvin seems serviceable, Robey has been a GREAT addition, and Brooks is a ghost but has no foot to stand on.
S: Williams has been great this year. He deserves his 2nd round status with how he's made up for his awfulness before. Byrd is a pussy, but Leonhard stepped in and made plays. It's nice to have a solid veteran back there. Searcy is a question mark, so are the rooks beneath them, but I'm very happy with Aaron Williams progress.

LS: Who cares
K: Get Hopkins back
P: Time to move on from Moorman after that debacle.

Injury free, this team would've been much different this year, but here we are yet again with a detailed injury report of essential cogs in the system being out.

Injuries damn this team to hell. So let's just get some depth.

Did you just call Hairston a "great" right tackle?

[jdaltroy5]

Draft one every year until you hit. The options are much better this year. Trade up or down. Nothing else will matter until you get the QB.But how do you define "hit"?

Does he have to be Andrew Luck or is Ryan Tannehill considered a hit as well? Most of the time, you don't even really know what you have after one year.

And as far as trading up, good luck with that. If there's a blue chip QB on the board, chances are that a team isn't just going to trade him away.

It sounds good in theory, but it's not practical.

[Mr. Pink]

But how do you define "hit"?

Does he have to be Andrew Luck or is Ryan Tannehill considered a hit as well? Most of the time, you don't even really know what you have after one year.

And as far as trading up, good luck with that. If there's a blue chip QB on the board, chances are that a team isn't just going to trade him away.

It sounds good in theory, but it's not practical.

You keep drafting them in round 1 til you get a guy who looks like he belongs in the league. I'd rather have Tannehill than a guy like Gabbert. The quicker you make the move away from a guy like Gabbert, the better off your franchise is.

Manuel is a guy like Gabbert.

Practical speaking it's not really something to bet on as moving away from Manuel after one year is the front office admitting they made a mistake...and ego gets in the way. So we'll be stuck with him for at least another year before replacing him.

[X-Era]

The one problem i have with your analysis X Era is what do you consider to a early Round pick? Im assuming a 1st and 2nd Round pick and maybe a 3rd round pick? Becasue in your analysis you only predict the Bills to address OLB with a early Round pick.. The rest of your predictions are the bills addressing a position with a midround pick (CB,OL,TE)
So that is true. I could see them go OLB and CB in the 1st 2 rounds. Or possibly a G in round 2. However, I could see an outside chance at a WR in the 1st.

[X-Era]

Did you just call Hairston a "great" right tackle?
He's unproven but I agree with him. I think he very well could be a great RT. He was good to very good in his starts. He's a solid prospect.

[EDS]

He's unproven but I agree with him. I think he very well could be a great RT. He was good to very good in his starts. He's a solid prospect.

Don't you see a rather HUGE and OBVIOUS distinction between "great" player and "solid" prospect?

House Ballard was a great right tackle. Hairston is one more injury away from a different career and being nothing more than a footnote in the history of the Buffalo Bills. He is going to have to put in a few solid seasons before anyone should label him a great player.

[Mr. Pink]

He's unproven but I agree with him. I think he very well could be a great RT. He was good to very good in his starts. He's a solid prospect.

You constantly over value players lately. Why is that?

Hairston is nothing more than backup caliber.

[jdaltroy5]

You keep drafting them in round 1 til you get a guy who looks like he belongs in the league. I'd rather have Tannehill than a guy like Gabbert. The quicker you make the move away from a guy like Gabbert, the better off your franchise is.

Manuel is a guy like Gabbert.

Practical speaking it's not really something to bet on as moving away from Manuel after one year is the front office admitting they made a mistake...and ego gets in the way. So we'll be stuck with him for at least another year before replacing him.
So would you have dropped Stafford after his rookie year? He was goddawful.

How about Drew Brees or Eli Manning?

[coastal]

One play is stuck in my mind from yesterday...

the "fade" to Stevie in the end zone at the beginning of the game.

he chucked it 10 yards out of bounds.

10 ****ing yards.

[X-Era]

You constantly over value players lately. Why is that?

Hairston is nothing more than backup caliber.
Because I disagree with you on Hairston. A few of us felt he looked like he could be a very good player when he played.

Who am I overvaluing?

[EDS]

One play is stuck in my mind from yesterday...

the "fade" to Stevie in the end zone at the beginning of the game.

he chucked it 10 yards out of bounds.

10 ****ing yards.

Maybe he just needs classes like Charlie Sheen's character in Major League?

[X-Era]

One play is stuck in my mind from yesterday...

the "fade" to Stevie in the end zone at the beginning of the game.

he chucked it 10 yards out of bounds.

10 ****ing yards.That was a real bad throw. Thankfully it wasn't a 4 yard throw to a defender for a pick 6...

Anyways, it just looked like a training camp throw to me. A throw you see in training camp. I chalk it up to rust.

But yes, it was real bad.

[X-Era]

Don't you see a rather HUGE and OBVIOUS distinction between "great" player and "solid" prospect?

House Ballard was a great right tackle. Hairston is one more injury away from a different career and being nothing more than a footnote in the history of the Buffalo Bills. He is going to have to put in a few solid seasons before anyone should label him a great player.I agree no one should label him a great player NOW. Please re-read.

[Mr. Pink]

So would you have dropped Stafford after his rookie year? He was goddawful.

How about Drew Brees or Eli Manning?

When EJ Manuel throws for 400 yards and 5 TDs in a game as a rookie let me know. Stafford did that.

Brees only played in one game as a rookie but completed 60% of his passes with 3200 yards in his first full year starting, year 2. He came in for relief of Doug Flutie and completely outperformed Flutie in that one game.

I don't like Eli as a QB and think he's a turnover machine.

[coastal]

That was a real bad throw. Thankfully it wasn't a 4 yard throw to a defender for a pick 6...

Anyways, it just looked like a training camp throw to me. A throw you see in training camp. I chalk it up to rust.

But yes, it was real bad.
I knew the game was over right then and there.

he's just not making any plays.

[jdaltroy5]

When EJ Manuel throws for 400 yards and 5 TDs in a game as a rookie let me know. Stafford did that.

Brees only played in one game as a rookie but completed 60% of his passes with 3200 yards in his first full year starting, year 2. He came in for relief of Doug Flutie and completely outperformed Flutie in that one game.

I don't like Eli as a QB and think he's a turnover machine.You kind of left out some convenient stats.

He also threw for 205 ypg, with 17 TD and 16 INT. In his third year, he had a 57% completion percentage, 191 ypg, 11 TDs and 15 INTs.

And Stafford threw for 5 TDs in one game, he also threw 5 picks in another game. His team only won 2 games all season.

By your logic, the Lions should've drafted Tebow or Clausen in 2010 instead of Suh.

[Mr. Pink]

You kind of left out some convenient stats.

He also threw for 205 ypg, with 17 TD and 16 INT. In his third year, he had a 57% completion percentage, 191 ypg, 11 TDs and 15 INTs.

And Stafford threw for 5 TDs in one game, he also threw 5 picks in another game. His team only won 2 games all season.

By your logic, the Lions should've drafted Tebow or Clausen in 2010 instead of Suh.

No. It's called these guys put in games that showed they belonged in the NFL.

Manuel hasn't shown anything that says he belongs in the NFL.

That's the entire point.

Even Manuel's backups, both street free agents, have shown more at the NFL level than him.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

You kind of left out some convenient stats.

He also threw for 205 ypg, with 17 TD and 16 INT. In his third year, he had a 57% completion percentage, 191 ypg, 11 TDs and 15 INTs.

And Stafford threw for 5 TDs in one game, he also threw 5 picks in another game. His team only won 2 games all season.

By your logic, the Lions should've drafted Tebow or Clausen in 2010 instead of Suh.

No, Stafford had a pre-cap deal. They couldn't move away from him because they had 40+ million in guaranteed money invested in the guy. By contrast, Manuel's entire deal is worth less than $9 million (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buffalo-bills-sign-rookie-first-round-draft-pick-qb-ej-manuel-kevin-kolb-tarvaris-jackson-061413)

[Mr. Pink]

No, Stafford had a pre-cap deal. They couldn't move away from him because they had 40+ million in guaranteed money invested in the guy. By contrast, Manuel's entire deal is worth less than $9 million (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buffalo-bills-sign-rookie-first-round-draft-pick-qb-ej-manuel-kevin-kolb-tarvaris-jackson-061413)

There's this point also.

[JohnnyGold]

Even Manuel's backups, both street free agents, have shown more at the NFL level than him.

this is the most ridiculous thing i have read today.

tuel should be out of the league forever, he singlehandedly lost us that chiefs game.

lewis? he had a hot fourth quarter against the bengals (ej's vs. the panthers apparently doesn't count), couldn't do anything against the dolphins (thanks to robey and mario for extending our season another week), and got completely dominated by the saints.

EJ might never make it to the wall of fame, but to say the backups played better than ej?

I don't recall anyone saying on sunday morning that thad should start the game...

[Mr. Pink]

this is the most ridiculous thing i have read today.

tuel should be out of the league forever, he singlehandedly lost us that chiefs game.

lewis? he had a hot fourth quarter against the bengals (ej's vs. the panthers apparently doesn't count), couldn't do anything against the dolphins (thanks to robey and mario for extending our season another week), and got completely dominated by the saints.

EJ might never make it to the wall of fame, but to say the backups played better than ej?

I don't recall anyone saying on sunday morning that thad should start the game...

With Manuel starting that game we score 6 points that entire game. The TD pass to Goodwin doesn't happen as Manuel doesn't throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field let alone 40. Remember those plays against Cincy Thad made? Manuel doesn't make those either as again he doesn't throw the ball down field. We lose by 2 TDs, in regulation against them with EJ starting.

EJ had one drive against the Panthers, a drive aided by a pass interference call on an INT, I might add.

None of the three guys are good enough but either of the backups give us a better chance to win than EJ ever will.

[BillsFever21]

One play is stuck in my mind from yesterday...

the "fade" to Stevie in the end zone at the beginning of the game.

he chucked it 10 yards out of bounds.

10 ****ing yards.

It looked more like he was just making the throw because that's the play that was called. He didn't have any confidence in actually completing it so he just chucked it 10 yards out of bounds instead of taking the chance of throwing an interception. It wasn't even close and even Megatron couldn't have came down with that one. That's the only rationalization I can get out of it.

I'm not giving up on him yet but if we have a QB who is scared to attempt throws then what good is he? His rookie season reminds me of Trent Edwards all over again. I'm not expecting him to light it up but you even the most average QB's in the league making big plays. He hasn't even been able to make any of them let alone on a consistent basis. Hell the 3rd stringer who came in off the bench for Green Bay at least made some plays.

[The Jokeman]

Now that we've had 3 qb's run HAckett's offense, I'm starting to think Hackett isn't the problem. Thad and Tuel has been able to move the ball with limited snaps with the 1st string offense compared to EJ .

Thad runs Hackett's read option better too.

Hiring a proven OC won't do anything when the qb is gunshy. If your QB is only willing to throw to open receivers and not willing to let your receivers make plays, I don't care who your OC is. Receivers aren't always going to be open.

I said the biggest mistake that Marrone made this offseason wasn't so much naming Hackett OC but doing so without also naming a QB coach. I'd love for us to find one this offseason. As well as a legit starting TE and a veteran WR to serve as a #2/#3 as outside of Stevie I have no faith in anyone else we put out there to get open consistently. There are a few guys in UFA I'd pursue at WR namely James Jones, Hakeem Nicks, Jeremy Maclin and if stretching Kenny Britt. TE there are a few guys who might be worth looking at like Dennis Pitta, Brandon Pettigrew and possibly Fred Davis. I've also mentioned trading down and getting Eric Ebron at TE. To me the "needs" for 2014 are keeping Byrd (as am sick of us making a hole when don't need to), TE1, WR2, LG, OLB. I'd also might look for a CB.

[Homegrown]

BPA at pretty much any position in every round.
pretty much

[Mouldsie]

EJ should have never been the pick. Great kid but cant play QB. Edwards-esque. I'd go QB all day if there is one I like available.

Winston is the best QB in the NCAA but that cant happen and we wont get Bridgewater so you could talk me into Mariota or Derek Carr. Not big on Manziel as he plays wildly out of control at times (off the field and on) but he is a gamer. Taj Boyd is better than Manuel but this year he has not performed to expectations.

All of them are better prospects than we have currently on the roster though

[Mad Max]

EJ should have never been the pick. Great kid but cant play QB. Edwards-esque. I'd go QB all day if there is one I like available.

Winston is the best QB in the NCAA but that cant happen and we wont get Bridgewater so you could talk me into Mariota or Derek Carr. Not big on Manziel as he plays wildly out of control at times (off the field and on) but he is a gamer. Taj Boyd is better than Manuel but this year he has not performed to expectations.

All of them are better prospects than we have currently on the roster though Correct. EJ was a panic draft move by these knuckleheads. We were desperate for an upgrade at the position after realizing that a career backup with a noodle arm wasn't the answer, so we outsmarted everyone and scooped up EJ before someone stole him from us in round 3. Derek Carr in the 2nd round of 2014 draft would be a smart move (I think he's the top QB in the draft). That way the FO doesn't lose face by admitting their (probable) error by getting another first round QB, but still gets a guy that has true Franchise potential. We'd be able to scoop a defensive beast in the first at any number of positions. We double our chances of acquiring a Franchise QB (if you are of the mind that EJ has that potential) and at worst have a serviceable backup or decent trade chip.

[WagonCircler]

Not big on Manziel as he plays wildly out of control at times (off the field and on) but he is a gamer.

I'm really coming around on Manziel. I think he's a punk, but I'm hoping he grows out of it.

The thing I really like about him though is how accurately he throws on the run. He throws like a shortstop. He can throw it from any arm angle, still get some stank on it, and hit guys between the numbers. And he's equally proficient at passing from the pocket.

He also has unbelievable escapability, but unlike so many "running QBs" he's still a pass-first guy.

I wish he wasn't such a douchebag, but if he wasn't, he'd be drafted first overall. Maybe the douche factor gives the Bills a shot at him, and maybe he grows up.

But none of this will happen. The Bills will draft another Defensive Back and we, the fans, will have to put up with another year of miserable EJ scuds.

[WagonCircler]

Correct. EJ was a panic draft move by these knuckleheads..

I don't think it was a panic move.

I think the knuckleheads were trying to make themselves look like the smartest guys in the room by picking "outside the box."

Ironically, outside the box is where EJ always throws the ball.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I'm really coming around on Manziel. I think he's a punk, but I'm hoping he grows out of it.

The thing I really like about him though is how accurately he throws on the run. He throws like a shortstop. He can throw it from any arm angle, still get some stank on it, and hit guys between the numbers. And he's equally proficient at passing from the pocket.

He also has unbelievable escapability, but unlike so many "running QBs" he's still a pass-first guy.

I wish he wasn't such a douchebag, but if he wasn't, he'd be drafted first overall. Maybe the douche factor gives the Bills a shot at him, and maybe he grows up.

But none of this will happen. The Bills will draft another Defensive Back and we, the fans, will have to put up with another year of miserable EJ scuds.

I think one of the top 3 QBs will be available when we draft. I actually am almost sure of it. If the Bills pass on Manziel (who I think is the 3rd best QB prospect) oh boy I'm going to rampage.

[jdaltroy5]

No. It's called these guys put in games that showed they belonged in the NFL.

Manuel hasn't shown anything that says he belongs in the NFL.

That's the entire point.

Even Manuel's backups, both street free agents, have shown more at the NFL level than him.No they haven't. Tuel has looked absolutely goddawful. Thad has been good in spurts, but overall Manuel has been better.

I'm not trying to defend Manuel, he should be light years ahead of 2 undrafted guys with limited experience.

You guys seem to only remember the Steelers game though.

[jdaltroy5]

No, Stafford had a pre-cap deal. They couldn't move away from him because they had 40+ million in guaranteed money invested in the guy. By contrast, Manuel's entire deal is worth less than $9 million (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buffalo-bills-sign-rookie-first-round-draft-pick-qb-ej-manuel-kevin-kolb-tarvaris-jackson-061413)
Ok, sure, but the premise remains the same.

If it had happened two years later, they would've given up on Matthew Stafford and taken Tim Tebow.

I'm ok with taking a QB if you think the new guy is going to be very good, but I'm absolutely against passing on an elite player to take some mid level QB prospect in the first round.

[Mr. Pink]

No they haven't. Tuel has looked absolutely goddawful. Thad has been good in spurts, but overall Manuel has been better.

I'm not trying to defend Manuel, he should be light years ahead of 2 undrafted guys with limited experience.

You guys seem to only remember the Steelers game though.

Actually, EJ's performance against the Ravens was just as bad.

He's looked okay in one start this year and just gets worse.

And how hasn't Tuel or Thad shown more? Simply throwing the ball down field is showing more than EJ.

I'm not giving Tuel or Thad glowing endorsements by any stretch, EJ is just that bad.

[Luisito23]

marrone is on record saying that hes very confident ej is going to be fine

Yeah, but what maniac is confident Marronne will be fine?

They'll be gone soon though.

[jdaltroy5]

Actually, EJ's performance against the Ravens was just as bad. Not really. He had a lot of turnovers that game, but the O was moving the ball.


He's looked okay in one start this year and just gets worse.Bull****. His only really bad game was last week. He's been ok in the other games and pretty good against Carolina and New England.


And how hasn't Tuel or Thad shown more? Simply throwing the ball down field is showing more than EJ.Did you actually watch the games? Tuel has made one throw all season. The rest of them have been crap. Thad has been decent at times, but is too careless with the football. Just because they throw it down the field, doesn't mean that they are better.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Why are we planning funeral services for what was for all intentional purposes a write off year? I for one would have liked to have gone with the hot hand and kept in Lewis who was at least looking decent. Frankly I would have kept him in at least until after the bye and then put EJ back in, but I do like that Marrone is sticking with EJ. I think we should merely play out this season, see who looks good, see who stinks and then plan accordingly. That being said, Tuel should be long gone by now.

[Mouldsie]

I'm really coming around on Manziel. I think he's a punk, but I'm hoping he grows out of it.

The thing I really like about him though is how accurately he throws on the run. He throws like a shortstop. He can throw it from any arm angle, still get some stank on it, and hit guys between the numbers. And he's equally proficient at passing from the pocket.

He also has unbelievable escapability, but unlike so many "running QBs" he's still a pass-first guy.

Iwish he wasn't such a douchebag, but if he wasn't, he'd be drafted first overall. Maybe the douche factor gives the Bills a shot at him, and maybe he grows up.

But none of this will happen. The Bills will draft another Defensive Back and we, the fans, will have to put up with another year of miserable EJ scuds.

Could be JP 2.0 or JK 2.0 haha

I think that line is a potential for hope.

[Mr. Pink]

Not really. He had a lot of turnovers that game, but the O was moving the ball.

Bull****. His only really bad game was last week. He's been ok in the other games and pretty good against Carolina and New England.

Did you actually watch the games? Tuel has made one throw all season. The rest of them have been crap. Thad has been decent at times, but is too careless with the football. Just because they throw it down the field, doesn't mean that they are better.

The team runs better when EJ isn't in? Why? Because the other two QBs throw the ball down field and make it that the opposing defense doesn't have 8 in the box all game long. The Steelers for the majority of the game had 8 in the box and at times had 9 until Polamulu dropped back.

EJ can't hit short throws with regularity, can't hit intermediate routes and just doesn't bother throwing long...defenses don't have to play honest when he's in there because they already know it's gonna be a run or a dump off for nothing.

So yes, simply making plays of any kind is better than EJ.

If you can throw the ball 10 yards down field with accuracy, you'd be better than EJ.

[Mouldsie]

Actually, EJ's performance against the Ravens was just as bad.

He's looked okay in one start this year and just gets worse.

And how hasn't Tuel or Thad shown more? Simply throwing the ball down field is showing more than EJ.

I'm not giving Tuel or Thad glowing endorsements by any stretch, EJ is just that bad.
Thad has been the best QB IMO

[chris66]

Thad has been the best QB IMO

As an outsider that has seen all the Bills games this year. I agree. that KC game would have looked more like the steelers game if EJ had stared

[Raptor]

Realistically?

Byrd will be tagged and traded or just let walk.

We'll stay the course at QB and get another top 10 pick.

We'll draft a safety in round 1 to replace Byrd.

Exactly, I wonder what number Clinton-Dix will wear?

[jdaltroy5]

The team runs better when EJ isn't in? Why? Because the other two QBs throw the ball down field and make it that the opposing defense doesn't have 8 in the box all game long. The Steelers for the majority of the game had 8 in the box and at times had 9 until Polamulu dropped back.Actually, the team doesn't run better when EJ isn't in. It's pretty easy to formulate an argument if you decide to just make things up. We were 2-2 when he went down. We've been 1-5 since then (although one of those losses obviously falls on EJ). We were averaging 22 ppg before he got hurt and 19 ppg after.


EJ can't hit short throws with regularity, can't hit intermediate routes and just doesn't bother throwing long...defenses don't have to play honest when he's in there because they already know it's gonna be a run or a dump off for nothing.

So yes, simply making plays of any kind is better than EJ.

If you can throw the ball 10 yards down field with accuracy, you'd be better than EJ.I agree that he definitely needs to improve his accuracy and start taking more shots downfield. And I agree that he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn in that Pittsburgh game. But overall, if he's as bad as you're describing him, he'd have a 15% completion percentage.