EJ vs. Cam Newtown... BB.com

[X-Era]

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2013/11/11/a-look-at-another-franchise-qbs-1st-6-starts/

Cam Newton’s 1st six starts

<tbody>
Record
Att
Cmp
Pct
Yds
Yd/A
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lg
Sk
Lst
Rate
1st
1st%
25+
YAC

</tbody>

<tbody>
1-5
229
134
58.5
1847
8.07
7
3.1
9
3.9
77t
10
60
78.3
78
34.1
16
779

</tbody>
EJ Manuel’s 1st six starts

<tbody>
Record
Att
Cmp
Pct
Yds
Yd/A
TD
TD%
Int
Int%
Lg
Sk
Lst
Rate
1st
1st%
25+
YAC

</tbody>

<tbody>
2-4
189
107
56.6
1140
6.03
6
3.2
4
2.1
45
16
97
76.2
48
25.4
8
537

</tbody>

Slamming EJ at this point is ridiculous. Sorry. And personally I don't care about comparing him to other QB's.

He's had 6 damn starts people, 6.

Wait until after the years over before you run him out of town.

Heres his numbers on the year so far:


<tbody>
2013 REGULAR SEASON GAME LOG
PASSING
RUSHING


DATE
OPP
RESULT
CMP
ATT
YDS
CMP%
AVG
LNG
TD
INT
QBR
RAT
ATT
YDS
AVG
LNG
TD


Sun 9/8


vs
NE (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/ne/new-england-patriots)


L 21-23 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330908002)
18
27
150
66.7
5.56
19
2
0
70.8
105.5
3
23
7.7
19
0


Sun 9/15


vs
CAR (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/car/carolina-panthers)


W 24-23 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330915002)
27
39
296
69.2
7.59
45
1
1
51.6
89.3
4
13
3.3
9
0


Sun 9/22


@
NYJ (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets)


L 20-27 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330922020)
19
42
243
45.2
5.79
33
1
0
30.3
71.8
6
40
6.7
19
0


Sun 9/29


vs
BAL (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/bal/baltimore-ravens)


W 23-20 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=330929002)
10
22
167
45.5
7.59
42
1
2
9.8
48.9
11
1
0.1
5
0


Thu 10/3


@
CLE (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/cle/cleveland-browns)


L 24-37 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331003005)
11
20
129
55.0
6.45
24
0
0
69.4
74.8
1
14
14.0
14
0


Sun 11/10


@
PIT (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers)


L 10-23 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=331110023)
22
39
155
56.4
3.97
23
1
1
32.8
63.5
2
17
8.5
9
0


REGULAR SEASON STATS
107
189
1,140
56.6
6.03
45
6
4
40.7
76.2
27
108
4.0
19
0

</tbody>

[Pinkerton Security]

The stat that scares me the most is his YPA. Its terrible, like Trent-esque.

[X-Era]

The stat that scares me the most is his YPA. Its terrible, like Trent-esque.
It's been good in most games just a few that it's bad. Like this last one:


<tbody>
Rk
Year
G#
Date
Age
Tm


Opp
Result
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
Int
Rate
Y/A
AY/A
Att
Yds
Y/A
TD


1
2013
1
2013-09-08 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309080buf.htm)
23-173
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


NWE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2013.htm)
L 21-23
*
18
27
66.67%
150
2
0
105.5
5.56
7.04
3
23
7.67
0


2
2013
2
2013-09-15 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309150buf.htm)
23-180
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


CAR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2013.htm)
W 24-23
*
27
39
69.23%
296
1
1
89.3
7.59
6.95
4
13
3.25
0


3
2013
3
2013-09-22 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309220nyj.htm)
23-187
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
NYJ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2013.htm)
L 20-27
*
19
42
45.24%
243
1
0
71.8
5.79
6.26
6
40
6.67
0


4
2013
4
2013-09-29 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309290buf.htm)
23-194
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


BAL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2013.htm)
W 23-20
*
10
22
45.45%
167
1
2
48.9
7.59
4.41
11
1
0.09
0


5
2013
5
2013-10-03 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201310030cle.htm)
23-198
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
CLE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2013.htm)
L 24-37
*
11
20
55.00%
129
0
0
74.8
6.45
6.45
1
14
14.00
0


6
2013
10
2013-11-10 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201311100pit.htm)
23-236
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
PIT (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2013.htm)
L 10-23
*
22
39
56.41%
155
1
1
63.5
3.97
3.33
2
17
8.50
0








6 Games












107
189
56.61%
1140
6
4
76.2
6.03
5.71
27
108
4.00
0

</tbody>

[Pinkerton Security]

It's been good in most games just a few that it's bad. Like this last one:


<tbody>
Rk
Year
G#
Date
Age
Tm


Opp
Result
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
Int
Rate
Y/A
AY/A
Att
Yds
Y/A
TD


1
2013
1
2013-09-08 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309080buf.htm)
23-173
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


NWE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2013.htm)
L 21-23
*
18
27
66.67%
150
2
0
105.5
5.56
7.04
3
23
7.67
0


2
2013
2
2013-09-15 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309150buf.htm)
23-180
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


CAR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2013.htm)
W 24-23
*
27
39
69.23%
296
1
1
89.3
7.59
6.95
4
13
3.25
0


3
2013
3
2013-09-22 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309220nyj.htm)
23-187
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
NYJ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2013.htm)
L 20-27
*
19
42
45.24%
243
1
0
71.8
5.79
6.26
6
40
6.67
0


4
2013
4
2013-09-29 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309290buf.htm)
23-194
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


BAL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2013.htm)
W 23-20
*
10
22
45.45%
167
1
2
48.9
7.59
4.41
11
1
0.09
0


5
2013
5
2013-10-03 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201310030cle.htm)
23-198
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
CLE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2013.htm)
L 24-37
*
11
20
55.00%
129
0
0
74.8
6.45
6.45
1
14
14.00
0


6
2013
10
2013-11-10 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201311100pit.htm)
23-236
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
PIT (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2013.htm)
L 10-23
*
22
39
56.41%
155
1
1
63.5
3.97
3.33
2
17
8.50
0








6 Games












107
189
56.61%
1140
6
4
76.2
6.03
5.71
27
108
4.00
0

</tbody>


True. This was by far his worst game. Im excited to see how he bounces back this week, especially because he also looked pretty pedestrian against the Jets last time. Doesnt hurt that I'll be at this game too!!

[EDS]

It's been good in most games just a few that it's bad. Like this last one:


<tbody>
Rk
Year
G#
Date
Age
Tm


Opp
Result
GS
Cmp
Att
Cmp%
Yds
TD
Int
Rate
Y/A
AY/A
Att
Yds
Y/A
TD


1
2013
1
2013-09-08 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309080buf.htm)
23-173
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


NWE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2013.htm)
L 21-23
*
18
27
66.67%
150
2
0
105.5
5.56
7.04
3
23
7.67
0


2
2013
2
2013-09-15 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309150buf.htm)
23-180
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


CAR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2013.htm)
W 24-23
*
27
39
69.23%
296
1
1
89.3
7.59
6.95
4
13
3.25
0


3
2013
3
2013-09-22 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309220nyj.htm)
23-187
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
NYJ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2013.htm)
L 20-27
*
19
42
45.24%
243
1
0
71.8
5.79
6.26
6
40
6.67
0


4
2013
4
2013-09-29 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201309290buf.htm)
23-194
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)


BAL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav/2013.htm)
W 23-20
*
10
22
45.45%
167
1
2
48.9
7.59
4.41
11
1
0.09
0


5
2013
5
2013-10-03 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201310030cle.htm)
23-198
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
CLE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2013.htm)
L 24-37
*
11
20
55.00%
129
0
0
74.8
6.45
6.45
1
14
14.00
0


6
2013
10
2013-11-10 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201311100pit.htm)
23-236
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2013.htm)
@
PIT (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2013.htm)
L 10-23
*
22
39
56.41%
155
1
1
63.5
3.97
3.33
2
17
8.50
0








6 Games












107
189
56.61%
1140
6
4
76.2
6.03
5.71
27
108
4.00
0

</tbody>

Rather, it was good in two games and bad in all the others. Bills won both the "good" games though!

[X-Era]

I think what he needs to do is get his completion percentage back above 60% like in the 1st 2 games.

What I want Hackett to do is give him some more intermediate route options. Too much check downs. Roll him out some and put him under center more with deeper drops.

[X-Era]

Rather, it was good in two games and bad in all the others. Bills won both the "good" games though!I agree it's a factor in winning for sure.

Like I said, get him into more intermediate options.

[Mr. Pink]

His best performance was week 1 and he's steadily got worse each week with part of a decent performance against Cleveland.

[GingerP]

Newton looks like he was a lot better. Newton made more mistakes, but he was called upon to throw a lot more (7 more attempts per game) and was able to generate a lot more yardage. He had a full 2 yards more per completion, which is why he threw for 1,847 yards to Manuel's 1,140. He blows his doors off.

They also conveniently leave off rushing yardage. Newton ran for over 200 yards and 6 TDs in his first 6 games as a pro. That compares to E.J.'s 100 yards and 0 TDs.

So, through 6 games Newton generated 13 TD's rushing and throwing, to Manuel's 6 in the same span. Yeah, he had more mistakes, but if you look at it Newton was up-and-down as a rookie. He had games where he absolutely carried his team (3 times throwing for over 300 yards and twice for over 400, accounting for multiple TD's in 5 of his first 6 games).

E.J. hasn't made a ton of mistakes, but he hasn't made a lot of plays either. He needs to be more of a play-maker, that is why he was drafted high. Newton may have struggled at times, but he has been a play-maker.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Manuel takes more sacks despite throwing much shorter passes (note the enormous disparity in yardage) and BB.com completely ignored that Newton had twice as many rushing yards and 6 TDs by that point.


Edit: Ginger beat me to it. Damned gingers.

[X-Era]

His best performance was week 1 and he's steadily got worse each week with part of a decent performance against Cleveland.
I can't disagree with this statement at this point.

I just feel like I like his pocket presence and that he doesn't get rattled. I think this game may be the wake up call he needs.

[X-Era]

Newton looks like he was a lot better. Newton made more mistakes, but he was called upon to throw a lot more (7 more attempts per game) and was able to generate a lot more yardage. He had a full 2 yards more per completion, which is why he threw for 1,847 yards to Manuel's 1,140. He blows his doors off.

They also conveniently leave off rushing yardage. Newton ran for over 200 yards and 6 TDs in his first 6 games as a pro. That compares to E.J.'s 100 yards and 0 TDs.

So, through 6 games Newton generated 13 TD's rushing and throwing, to Manuel's 6 in the same span. Yeah, he had more mistakes, but if you look at it Newton was up-and-down as a rookie. He had games where he absolutely carried his team (3 times throwing for over 300 yards and twice for over 400, accounting for multiple TD's in 5 of his first 6 games).

E.J. hasn't made a ton of mistakes, but he hasn't made a lot of plays either. He needs to be more of a play-maker, that is why he was drafted high. Newton may have struggled at times, but he has been a play-maker.I agree with this.

He needs to either not be so conservative or Hackett needs to open it up more.

[coastal]

I agree with this.

He needs to either not be so conservative or Hackett needs to open it up more.
Or maybe he needs not to suck?

[JCBills]

I've been saying this.

People seem to totally forget that players do in fact develop. A foreign concept to many, but we've seen it all over the league and on Buffalo's roster.

It is almost like they enjoy the unreasonable pissing and moaning, I know at least a few do.

[X-Era]

Or maybe he needs not to suck?
He does need to not suck. Think that's possible? That the jury is still out?

Or after 6 games in his rookie year should be just be **** canned?

Let's go with that. That way he can join Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman among many others who sucked in their first 6 games.

[TacklingDummy]

Outside of about 5 drives EJ hasn't done crap.
I'd give him next year in hopes he leads us to the basement.
With that 1st. pick I'd select Winston.
Franchise QB search over.

[GvilleBills]

I can't disagree with this statement at this point.

I just feel like I like his pocket presence and that he doesn't get rattled. I think this game may be the wake up call he needs.

Seems like he doesn't have a sense for what's going on around him evidenced by his fumbles.
Doesn't really seem to have a sense of what's going on in front of him either, for that matter.

[TacklingDummy]

The stat that scares me the most is his YPA. Its terrible, like Trent-esque.

Trent's first year his was 6.06.

[X-Era]

Outside of about 5 drives EJ hasn't done crap.
I'd give him next year in hopes he leads us to the basement.
With that 1st. pick I'd select Winston.
Franchise QB search over.Now hold up. Lol.

I'm not saying he's the answer yet TD. I'm only saying he should get more than 6 games.

BTW, didn't you say that about Barkley? :D:

[Mr. Pink]

He does need to not suck. Think that's possible? That the jury is still out?

Or after 6 games in his rookie year should be just be **** canned?

Let's go with that. That way he can join Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman among many others who sucked in their first 6 games.

Yes he should be **** canned.

This franchise has made the mistake of going with inadequate QBs too long in recent history. We stuck it out with Losman for what? Stuck it out with Edwards for what? Stuck it out with Fitz for what? Learn from those mistakes. Pull the plug and try again as soon as possible. Why waste another year on a guy who honestly if we got rid of him at the end of the year would likely be out of football in 3 years.

Sorry X-Era, you'll be X-Era for another few years if the organization takes it's time moving forward from the EJ experiment.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm not saying the guy needs to be booted to the curb, but does he deserve another year as the unchallenged starter? People are hung up on the sunk cost of having him as a first round pick, but that's the wrong way to go about it. Even as a first rounder, his rookie capped salary is peanuts. Get another QB and have a legitimate training camp battle this year.

[Lucidvizion]

I think Cam Newton is a mediocre quarterback at best. This thread isn't really helping my current opinion of EJ...

[X-Era]

I'm not saying the guy needs to be booted to the curb, but does he deserve another year as the unchallenged starter? People are hung up on the sunk cost of having him as a first round pick, but that's the wrong way to go about it. Even as a first rounder, his rookie capped salary is peanuts. Get another QB and have a legitimate training camp battle this year.
I don't know. I think it's all about the quality of the evaluation. I mean do we know enough right now? Will we by the end of the season? If we can write the book on the guy and can accurately project his ceiling after this year and come to the conclusion that he isn't going to be an above average starter then sure. Move on. You won;t hear me saying we shouldn't get a franchise QB when it's obvious we need one.

I just can't say that yet. I can call him a bust or even project his ceiling after 6 games. I think you want to see continuous improvement. And to me that doesn't have to strictly be game to game because he will have a bad game here and there. But you should be able to see, at the end of the year, a progression over the body of the work. That leads you to project where he can go if he continues to get better.

Throwing another young rookie into the mix simply adds another unproven guy we can't trust and accurately project yet. There's no Luck in next years draft by the looks of it so far. I think it may be more likely to be a repeat of last years draft or at best a repeat of the 2011 draft... there may be one or two guys who end up being playoff QB's but like with the Bills, the rest of the team still needs to be good enough to be playoff caliber as well.

And I don't think we're there as a team yet.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

There's no Andrew Luck in this upcoming draft but we wouldn't be in a position to get him if he was.

And throwing another young QB in the mix means we have a legitimate training camp battle for once.

[TacklingDummy]

Now hold up. Lol.

I'm not saying he's the answer yet TD. I'm only saying he should get more than 6 games.

BTW, didn't you say that about Barkley? :D:

Based on his 2nd to last year.
I wanted to pass on all QB's once the draft came.

[BillsFever21]

If you're going to use a comparison don't use somebody who broke the rookie passing record when EJ is lucky to hit 200 yards a game.

I'm not giving up on him yet but it doesn't look good up to this point. You can't teach downfield accuracy or even on short throws and hitting guys in stride. He is a rookie but he has been playing football for years. You can't teach throwing the football accurate.

[imbondz]

Cam:

Rookie records

2nd most passing yards by a rookie in a game (432), September 18, 2011 vs. Green Bay Packers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers)
2nd most passing yards by a rookie in a season (4,051), 2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_season)
First rookie in NFL history to pass for more than 400 yards in back to back games, September 11, 2011 vs. Arizona Cardinals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Cardinals) and September 18, 2011 vs. Green Bay Packers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers)[62] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cam_Newton#cite_note-CamPassRecords-62)
First rookie in NFL history to throw for 10 touchdowns and run for 10 touchdowns in a season.
First rookie quarterback in NFL history to throw for 4,000 yards in a season.
Most total touchdowns by a rookie NFL player: 35 (21 pass, 14 rush).
2nd most rushing yards by a rookie quarterback: 706
Along with Andy Dalton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Dalton), the two make the first pair of rookie QB's to make the Pro Bowl.
Most total yards by a rookie quarterback: 4,784.




probably not the best comparison

[BuffaloRedleg]

Why are we comparing him to Cam Newton? I absolutely do not think he will ever win a Superbowl.

If a better quality prospect at the QB position is there when we draft, I don't see why we should hesitate to take him. To pretend that he ever was or is anything other than a developmental prospect with big upside is fallacy. We all knew that when he was drafted and now we pretend like it wasn't the case. He has not earned the benefit of the doubt and we absolutely do not owe it to him.

[JCBills]

Why are we comparing him to Cam Newton? I absolutely do not think he will ever win a Superbowl.

If a better quality prospect at the QB position is there when we draft, I don't see why we should hesitate to take him. To pretend that he ever was or is anything other than a developmental prospect with big upside is fallacy. We all knew that when he was drafted and now we pretend like it wasn't the case. He has not earned the benefit of the doubt and we absolutely do not owe it to him.

I don't think anyone is saying that. If anything, we are saying the opposite, that he DOES need time to develop on the field. Very few QBs don't.

[DynaPaul]

Looks like damage control from OBD. We're comparing him to Scam Newton? Seriously? That's not the QB I'd aspire him to be.

[kishoph]

Newton looks like he was a lot better. Newton made more mistakes, but he was called upon to throw a lot more (7 more attempts per game) and was able to generate a lot more yardage. He had a full 2 yards more per completion, which is why he threw for 1,847 yards to Manuel's 1,140. He blows his doors off.



Passing yards can be over rated, Luck threw for over 350 yds. yesterday, his team scored 8 points, mostly because of Luck's 3 ints. and 1 fumble. Newton's 9 ints. to EJ's 4 ints. is a more telling factor to me than him throwing for a few hundred more yards.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Passing yards can be over rated, Luck threw for over 350 yds. yesterday, his team scored 8 points, mostly because of Luck's 3 ints. and 1 fumble. Newton's 9 ints. to EJ's 4 ints. is a more telling factor to me than him throwing for a few hundred more yards.

That's over a hundred extra yards a game you're handwaving away.

[Mr. Pink]

Passing yards can be over rated, Luck threw for over 350 yds. yesterday, his team scored 8 points, mostly because of Luck's 3 ints. and 1 fumble. Newton's 9 ints. to EJ's 4 ints. is a more telling factor to me than him throwing for a few hundred more yards.

:rofl:

You'd rather have a guy that's afraid to do anything over a guy who at least tries to make plays?

[Buffalogic]

We have to draft another qb next year. Ej is afraid to throw the ball because he knows his accuracy sucks. I'd rather have a qb that is not a pussy. Yes you would get more interceptions but we would also get touchdowns. With Ej you get nothing but a terrified guy for three downs and a punter. The play calling sucks but I like the attitude marrone brings. We need to draft a real qb next year and hire a real offensive coordinator and we can turn it around real quick. If not, it's another three years down the drain.

[JohnnyGold]

I'm not saying the guy needs to be booted to the curb, but does he deserve another year as the unchallenged starter? People are hung up on the sunk cost of having him as a first round pick, but that's the wrong way to go about it. Even as a first rounder, his rookie capped salary is peanuts. Get another QB and have a legitimate training camp battle this year.


I would say that the wrong way to go about it is to feel this down on a rookie qb after his 6th start.

Look at Big Ben's (2x super bowl champion) stats from yesterday. Clearly it was a bad day to throw the football, and it's not like our running backs came up big. Asking a rookie qb to go into a tough stadium, on a bad field, after missing a month to an injury, and throw in bad weather, when he has no running game? Ehhh, looks like the results he got were what he should have gotten.

IDK if EJ is the answer at QB for the Bills--but I do know that yesterday's game will be 1/48th of the answer when I'm ready to make my decision, as opposed to 100% of my sample.

[Mr. Pink]

I would say that the wrong way to go about it is to feel this down on a rookie qb after his 6th start.

Look at Big Ben's (2x super bowl champion) stats from yesterday. Clearly it was a bad day to throw the football, and it's not like our running backs came up big. Asking a rookie qb to go into a tough stadium, on a bad field, after missing a month to an injury, and throw in bad weather, when he has no running game? Ehhh, looks like the results he got were what he should have gotten.

IDK if EJ is the answer at QB for the Bills--but I do know that yesterday's game will be 1/48th of the answer when I'm ready to make my decision, as opposed to 100% of my sample.

18 of 30 for 204 1 TD and 1 INT vs 22 of 39 for 155 1 TD and 1 INT. Take out the garbage time drive and EJs numbers are...6 for 27 for 81 0 TD 1 INT.

The reason there was no running game is because Pittsburgh had 8 in the box the entire game. Why did that do that you ask? Good question! Because EJ neglected to ever throw the ball down field.

[TacklingDummy]

18 of 30 for 204 1 TD and 1 INT vs 22 of 39 for 155 1 TD and 1 INT. Take out the garbage time drive and EJs numbers are...6 for 27 for 81 0 TD 1 INT.

He was getting into rhythm.

The drive should have ended on the fumble and the game should have ended on the false start for a touchdown that wasn't called.

[justasportsfan]

I
What I want Hackett to do is give him some more intermediate route options.

How do you know they weren't there and he decided to check down ? The intermediate routes seem to be there with Thad and Tuel

[Mr. Pink]

How do you know they weren't there and he decided to check down ? The intermediate routes seem to be there with Thad and Tuel

Apparently they must neuter the playbook when EJ is in according to some of the things I've heard/read. :rofl:

Thad and Tuel both throw down field, throw intermediate routes, actually *gasp* complete those passes. EJ just doesn't attempt them.

[justasportsfan]

Looks like damage control from OBD. We're comparing him to Scam Newton? Seriously? That's not the QB I'd aspire him to be.

Definitely damage control but what they forgot to mention that although Can Newtons passing numbers may not be impressive, they obviously didn't mention that Cams ability to run and score tds with his legs will affect his passing numbers. Ej does not run half as well as Cam so those numbers mean nothing

[justasportsfan]

Apparently they must neuter the playbook when EJ is in according to some of the things I've heard/read. :rofl:

Thad and Tuel both throw down field, throw intermediate routes, actually *gasp* complete those passes. EJ just doesn't attempt them.

Tuel/Thad = Flu tie
Ej= Rob Johnson

[Mr. Pink]

Tuel/Thad = Flu tie
Ej= Rob Johnson

Don't insult RJ like that.

[justasportsfan]

Slamming EJ at this point is ridiculous. Sorry. And personally I don't care about comparing him to other QB's.


I can honestly say Tuel is the worst QB to start for us since Alex Van Pelt.



He's had 6 damn starts people, 6.


Wait until after the years over before you run him out of town.



Tuel had 1.5 games


Horrible. Horrible choice of talent. Horrible play. Horrible loss on an easily winnable game with an adequate backup QB.[/QUOTE







QB doesn't matter... Run and stop the run... We did both and still lost because we had an inadequate QB. Tired of that garbage answer to inadequate QB play.



Dear Marrone, your next man up concept loses games when you next man is a pile of garbage. You had no business throwing with Tuel and especially on a 4th and 3.
The loser is cut.



Sorry E-Era. Youre contradicting yourself


http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/221464-Tuel-and-moreover-Whaley-is-why-we-lost-this-game?highlight=tuel

[kishoph]

:rofl:

You'd rather have a guy that's afraid to do anything over a guy who at least tries to make plays?

When it comes to a rookie QB, I want one that's gonna take what the defense gives to him and and not force passes into receives that are blanketed, the Bills do not have the receivers that can go up and fight for the ball. There is nothing wrong with going down the field with short routes and crossing patterns, then if the defense is opened up you take a shot downfield.

[DynaPaul]

When it comes to a rookie QB, I want one that's gonna take what the defense gives to him and and not force passes into receives that are blanketed, the Bills do not have the receivers that can go up and fight for the ball. There is nothing wrong with going down the field with short routes and crossing patterns, then if the defense is opened up you take a shot downfield.

So you still have a Trent Edwards jersey huh?

[kishoph]

So you still have a Trent Edwards jersey huh?

Can you read where I said a rookie QB, that's all right stay on the Geno Smith bandwagon, because he throws the ball downfield.

[Mr. Pink]

When it comes to a rookie QB, I want one that's gonna take what the defense gives to him and and not force passes into receives that are blanketed, the Bills do not have the receivers that can go up and fight for the ball. There is nothing wrong with going down the field with short routes and crossing patterns, then if the defense is opened up you take a shot downfield.

Thad does it. Tuel does it. Manuel doesn't.

He threw once down field Sunday, into double coverage, intercepted. Probably because he stared Goodwin down the entire play.

[DynaPaul]

Can you read where I said a rookie QB, that's all right stay on the Geno Smith bandwagon, because he throws the ball downfield.

I did notice that and I'm not fan of Geno Smith. (I think he's the next Vince Young personally and not in a good way.) Sorry, but rookies have to take those shots downfield instead of dinking and dunking the safe outlet passes because, as we've seen, that doesn't win any games.

[Buffalogic]

When it comes to a rookie QB, I want one that's gonna take what the defense gives to him and and not force passes into receives that are blanketed, the Bills do not have the receivers that can go up and fight for the ball. There is nothing wrong with going down the field with short routes and crossing patterns, then if the defense is opened up you take a shot downfield.
Yeah, except Tuel and Thad had no problems hitting the deep home runs. They are out there, EJ is too terrified to take the shot. There's no such thing as forcing the ball when there is a guy open and ready to score a touchdown, so using that as an excuse is an apologists strategy.

[kishoph]

Thad does it. Tuel does it. Manuel doesn't.

He threw once down field Sunday, into double coverage, intercepted. Probably because he stared Goodwin down the entire play.

So because you don't like him you'll go ahead and make something up like "he stared Goodwin down the entire play", which couldn't be farther from the truth, he looked left, then straight ahead, then looked to the right and threw the ball. You also completely ignore the fact that if Goodwin was tackled on the play, that he easily had a play on the ball, at the very least to prevent an int. I could post pics from the Game replay endzone shot, but you only see what you want to see anyway.

[kishoph]

Yeah, except Tuel and Thad had no problems hitting the deep home runs. They are out there, EJ is too terrified to take the shot. There's no such thing as forcing the ball when there is a guy open and ready to score a touchdown, so using that as an excuse is an apologists strategy.


I pretty sure Game Rewind has a free 7 day trial, go find all the open receivers downfield that Manuel had to throw to on Sunday and point them out, or I can save you time and tell you there weren't any, Pittsburgh dropped their safeties in any passing situation, on the interception they had 5 people dropped deep on 3 receivers and that's the way it was mostly the whole game. Not once did I see any Bills receiver get past a the Steelers DB's. Saying they are out there when they aren't is just a haters strategy.

[starrymessenger]

If Cam is the "other" franchise QB, who is the franchise QB we are talking about? Drew Brees? Peyton
Manning? Andrew Luck? No...incredibly, according to Chris Brown it's EJ!
What has EJ Manuel done to earn the "franchise" moniker?
What wonderland are they living in over at OBD?
That other board has a hard core of posters who spend all of their time comparing rookie QBs stats - all for the purpose of proving that rookie QBs, including those who go on to be great players, can have less than impressive stat lines as rookies, or even second year players. Oh look Peyton threw 26 interceptions...oh look stupid Luck just cost his team the game...
But no one ever reasonably doubted Manning or Luck's ability to throw a football. That they could do that has always been obvious. Not so with EJ. Right now he looks like those guys have never looked - like he could not hit a scarecrow in a cornfield at ten paces if he had all day to do it.
Rookie QBs often have bad stat lines. What that means is that either they are learning from their mistakes or they are no damn good. Peyton was learning. Luck is learning. But while they learn you see ample evidence of their marvellous talent.
EJ? Not so much. At least not yet.
Let EJ play out this string of remaining games (assuming he does not continue to totally crap out such that they have no choice but to sit him). But if he shows no improvement by the end of the year draft a good prospect at the position as soon as the first opportunity presents itself. Another poster said the Steelers game was 1/48 of the data he needed to come to a view on EJ. So he would have to witness 47 more similar performances before concluding EJ is a bust?
I do however think things will work out in the end. Whaley looks to me like a proactive type GM. I don't think he will lack the courage to act if/when he truly believes EJ is no longer a good risk. Although he tows the party line, I'm not even sure you can say for sure that EJ was his pick. I doubt that the current FO and Marrone are here just to cynically buy three years of employment. I don't think they intend letting EJ slowly drag them to the bottom like an anchor around their necks. The sad case of Chan and Fitz should be a telling recent reminder and a warning.

[Mr. Pink]

I pretty sure Game Rewind has a free 7 day trial, go find all the open receivers downfield that Manuel had to throw to on Sunday and point them out, or I can save you time and tell you there weren't any, Pittsburgh dropped their safeties in any passing situation, on the interception they had 5 people dropped deep on 3 receivers and that's the way it was mostly the whole game. Not once did I see any Bills receiver get past a the Steelers DB's. Saying they are out there when they aren't is just a haters strategy.

On the interception Fred Jackson was wide open in the flat without a Pittsburgh defender within 10 yards of him.

[Mr. Pink]

So because you don't like him you'll go ahead and make something up like "he stared Goodwin down the entire play", which couldn't be farther from the truth, he looked left, then straight ahead, then looked to the right and threw the ball. You also completely ignore the fact that if Goodwin was tackled on the play, that he easily had a play on the ball, at the very least to prevent an int. I could post pics from the Game replay endzone shot, but you only see what you want to see anyway.

I love the excuses brigade.

It's funny the only thing anyone can say positive about EJ is excuses.

[GvilleBills]

EJ throws a football like a paper airplane. Can't be accurate that way.
He has no gumption, so paralyzed by the thought of a turnover...
...Unless he's in the pocket, where he lacks presence and ball security is forgotten.

He gets the rest of the year, but it's readily apparent how this will turn out.

[GvilleBills]

I love the excuses brigade.

It's funny the only thing anyone can say positive about EJ is excuses.
"He shouldn't even be starting!"
Sound like friggin' Dante from Clerks.

[kishoph]

On the interception Fred Jackson was wide open in the flat without a Pittsburgh defender within 10 yards of him.

Wait do you want him to throw the ball deep or hit his dump offs ? When he dumps it off you complain he doesn't throw the ball down field and when he throws it down field your gonna complain he didn't dump it off. :cry:

[kishoph]

I love the excuses brigade.

It's funny the only thing anyone can say positive about EJ is excuses.

At least excuses are more valid than just making crap up.

[Mr. Pink]

Wait do you want him to throw the ball deep or hit his dump offs ? When he dumps it off you complain he doesn't throw the ball down field and when he throws it down field your gonna complain he didn't dump it off. :cry:

You claimed that he didn't stare down Goodwin on that play. Yet he did. And I gave proof that he did.

But way to twist something I said into your bias.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

When it comes to a rookie QB, I want one that's gonna take what the defense gives to him and and not force passes into receives that are blanketed, the Bills do not have the receivers that can go up and fight for the ball. There is nothing wrong with going down the field with short routes and crossing patterns, then if the defense is opened up you take a shot downfield.

There's nothing inherently wrong in throwing short a lot, but you'd better be throwing laser accurate balls nearly every play. If you are throwing for three yards and still missing...

[Mr. Pink]

There's nothing inherently wrong in throwing short a lot, but you'd better be throwing laser accurate balls nearly every play. If you are throwing for three yards and still missing...

Yes there is.

It makes the defense load the box every play because they don't fear your passing game which then makes the running game look well like it did Sunday.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Yes there is.

It makes the defense load the box every play because they don't fear your passing game which then makes the running game look well like it did Sunday.

They don't fear our passing game because he can't hit short passes. If your QB actually is hitting those short passes at an extremely high rate, the defense has to account for the receivers or else they could break a tackle and turn a short play into a long one.

It's certainly a viable offense, but a damned difficult one to execute because it has little margin for error.

[Ingtar33]

It's been good in most games just a few that it's bad. Like this last one:

excuse me... but 8 ypa is considered good; not 7; 7.0 is decidedly mediocre. 8 is the high watermark winning qbs usually reach. I think i remember a stat a few years ago that stated if a QB threw for 8.5 ypa he won 90% of the time.

not a single game has EJ passed for 8 ypa.

(BTW: EJ's 6ypa is good for 30th in the league... for comparison, Ryan Fitzpatrick is averaging 7.12)

[X-Era]

excuse me... but 8 ypa is considered good; not 7; 7.0 is decidedly mediocre. 8 is the high watermark winning qbs usually reach. I think i remember a stat a few years ago that stated if a QB threw for 8.5 ypa he won 90% of the time.

not a single game has EJ passed for 8 ypa.

(BTW: EJ's 6ypa is good for 30th in the league... for comparison, Ryan Fitzpatrick is averaging 7.12)

Don't agree.

That means 6 QB's fit your requirement right now:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

Only 3 hit your 8.5 or better mark.

That mark is too high period. But especially for a rookie with 6 games under his belt.

Now, he's at 6 and I'd like to see him be at more like 7.

[JoeMama]

True. This was by far his worst game. Im excited to see how he bounces back this week, especially because he also looked pretty pedestrian against the Jets last time. Doesnt hurt that I'll be at this game too!!

Don't count on that.

Robert Woods has already been ruled out. Stevie's looking doubtful. Even if EJ decides to pull his head out of ass this week, who's going to haul in his passes on the rare occasion he can hit the broad side of a barn?

OT: the Jets D should be a hot pickup in fantasy leagues this week.

I'm not one to bet against the Bills but I'm half tempted to pick the Jets D and Chris Ivory as a one week start. If you're desperate for a QB, Smith carved up our sorry pass D last time around. Gilmore seems content to pretend he's Chris Watson the last couple weeks, making the match-up all the better.

[Ingtar33]

Don't agree.

That means 6 QB's fit your requirement right now:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating

Only 3 hit your 8.5 or better mark.

That mark is too high period. But especially for a rookie with 6 games under his belt.

Now, he's at 6 and I'd like to see him be at more like 7.

the 8.5 ypa stat is for individual games not a full season. any qb hitting that number over the course of a season is having a record setting year.

Generally speaking ypa is a good indicator of a winning qb... with the winning team's qb often having the higher ypa, a stat that rapidly approaching certainty the closer that ypa approaches 8.5

[gr8slayer]

Don't get the comparison, they are two QB's that couldn't be more different.

[chris66]

His best performance was week 1 and he's steadily got worse each week with part of a decent performance against Cleveland.

Makes sense. new system new qb no film. As teams are starting to get film on him his production has gone down. fitz's best games were always his first 4-5. once teams got film he steadily declined

[better days]

People are going to see Sunday why the Bills drafted EJ & not Geno.

Geno looked TERRIBLE in the Pinstripe Bowl & I expect him to look terrible Sunday in the Ralph.

EJ has the arm to cut through the winds at the Ralph, Geno does not.