Why CJ Spiller isn't good this year. From BBMB.

[BertSquirtgum]

Constantly running east to west instead of north to south. Terrible.

http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?475635-Why-CJ-Spiller-is-in-Marrones-Dog-House-(as-told-by-Joe-B-)

http://i.imgur.com/ENMywZI.jpg?1

[Dying_-2-_Live]

first people whine and say he is running up the gut too much. NOW he is taking flak for bouncing it outside like everyone has wanted to see.

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't remember anybody whining about that. I remember Spiller doing this same thing as a rookie. Last year, Gailey had it straightened out pretty well and he was hitting the proper holes. Not the case this year. He needs to be more patient like Fred. I have no idea why Fred isn't rubbing off on Spiller at all.

[Pinkerton Security]

There are certainly holes there and he is missing some, but our o-line isnt consistently opening any and arent doing as good of a job blocking period this year. Fred has taken advantage of the holes that ARE there by simply putting his head down and fighting for tough yards, where CJ has been trying to make the big play.

[DraftBoy]

Different blocking scheme could also be part of the issue. Marrone runs a lot of zone based blocking which is completely different from Gailey. That's not to excuse Spiller's struggles because they are apparent but he's adjusting to an entirely new blocking schematic this year.

[The King]

Good Thread Hurkey.

[Mr. Pink]

8 in the box on the first picture, 7 in the box on the second.

Why do you think he's bouncing outside?

There's nowhere to run up the middle.

And the funny part about Joe B's exhibits. A. CJ goes to that hole, the safety comes straight down on him and the run goes for maybe a yard. B. That hole has a linebacker in it. C. Maybe he's lucky and falls forward for a yard. D. Who cares?

[BertSquirtgum]

8 in the box on the first picture, 7 in the box on the second.

Why do you think he's bouncing outside?

There's nowhere to run up the middle.

And the funny part about Joe B's exhibits. A. CJ goes to that hole, the safety comes straight down on him and the run goes for maybe a yard. B. That hole has a linebacker in it. C. Maybe he's lucky and falls forward for a yard. D. Who cares?

Maybe coach marrone cares that cj is putting his team in bad situations by not hitting holes in a designed run. Also, everything you said was wrong.

[BertSquirtgum]

Could be the reason we are seeing less and less of spiller as the year goes on.

[Mr. Pink]

Could be the reason we are seeing less and less of spiller as the year goes on.

Hell Exhibit C the only way CJ gets anywhere besides down is if Erik Pears holds on the play. He's beat.

[kingJofNYC]

If you want to get Spiller downhill get your QB out of the gun. With Thad we went under center a lot more, we even went under center more with Tuel than we ever do with EJ. I think EJ went under center half a dozen times against Pitt.

Gailey had plenty of gun, but his gun run game was a mix or power and zone concepts, and he also mixed in Pistol runs. Pistol is great for getting your RB downhill while maintaining some of the benefits of a gun pass game. Hard to go north south when you're lining up directly next to the QB.

CJs never had elite vision, but I think he's better when you force him to go downhill. By lining him up the way they are he's more tempted to go east west.

[Homegrown]

CJ is like a NASCAR driver ... he goes left a lot

[OpIv37]

first people whine and say he is running up the gut too much. NOW he is taking flak for bouncing it outside like everyone has wanted to see.

:rolleyes:

The frustration is that he doesn't know when to run up the gut and when to use his speed to bounce it outside. It's not one or the other- it's him not knowing the difference. It's understandable for a rookie but not for a guy who's been around as long as Spiller.

[SquishDaFish]

What pissed me off this week was the constant changing of the backs every other down or 2. Let the damn RB either Jackson or Spiller stay in for a whole drive or most of it anyway. No way can they get into any kind of groove

[BertSquirtgum]

8 in the box on the first picture, 7 in the box on the second.

Why do you think he's bouncing outside?

There's nowhere to run up the middle.

And the funny part about Joe B's exhibits. A. CJ goes to that hole, the safety comes straight down on him and the run goes for maybe a yard. B. That hole has a linebacker in it. C. Maybe he's lucky and falls forward for a yard. D. Who cares?

A: 15 yards between him and the safety. How many would he get before the safety got there? 5-8 yards, imo.
B: You can see lee smith heading towards that linebacker. An easy 3-4 yards, imo.
C: With CJs speed there is a hole to his right but he most likely would have been tackle as there is two Pittsburgh players to the Bills' one. Going to the left here, looked like the right idea.

[Mr. Pink]

A: 15 yards between him and the safety. How many would he get before the safety got there? 5-8 yards, imo.
B: You can see lee smith heading towards that linebacker. An easy 3-4 yards, imo.
C: With CJs speed there is a hole to his right but he most likely would have been tackle as there is two Pittsburgh players to the Bills' one. Going to the left here, looked like the right idea.

A. That safety, Ryan Clark about 10 yards from the point of attack is also in the middle of a side step, they'd both meet after a gain of 3 yards if the point of attack holds up. Looking at that, obviously can't see the corner on that side, it looks like breaking that run off to the outside is the best chance of more than a minimal gain. All Chandler needs to do is turn his player inside as CJ goes past.

B. Not only is there a linebacker in that hole there's a safety already at least jogging toward it as CJ is in the middle of a side step. Not to mention the fact Pears doesn't look like he's in any position to make a block, say he does, he's only blocking the linebacker or the safety...the other is making the tackle for another minimal gain. Someone needs to chip on the defender in the middle as he has inside position to stop a run up the middle before it goes anywhere.

C. Pears is flat out beat and the only way he stops his defender is if he grabs him if CJ bounces that back to the right. It looks like CJ is trying to run to the small hole inside of Cordy Glenn. Unfortunately Eric Wood is beat on that side. No matter where CJ ran on that play it would have failed. Spiller going left actually saves 9 yards as Pears would have likely ended up being flagged if Spiller ran that way.

And on all of these plays look at the fact that every play has at least one guy who's completely unaccounted for.

[BertSquirtgum]

I disagree with your assumptions on A and B

[Mahdi]

A and B definitely should be run up the middle by CJ. One on one with CJ in the hole with Ryan Clark is as good as it gets for a RB like CJ.

I think though that the coaches are screwing up both RBs by shuffling them in and out constantly. Both are good as receivers and both can run the ball so just leave one guy in their for an entire series.

[colin]

i really think our OC is playing checkers out there.

[X-Era]

Joe B. is an idiot.

CJ Spiller is at his best when he's running in space. He always has been. He always will be. He did a better job running between the Tackles last year. But, he's best in space.

CJ gets big yards when he gets room to move. That's the best way to use him.

And as far as vision goes CJ does want to look outside rather than inside because that's where he's at his best. Just the way that is. Every RB in the league will choose the wrong holes or smaller holes sometimes. Every single one. To hen pick a few plays and question vision is nothing more than media BS.

Joe's a fool. Never liked that guy. Ever notice that he can't make a single sentence without the long AAAAHHHHHHHHH at the start?

[better days]

I posted in a different thread, the loss of Levitre is underestimated by many.

With poor play from the LG & the RT, the Bills are WEAK on both sides of the OL.

[JoeMama]

Constantly running east to west instead of north to south. Terrible.

http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?475635-Why-CJ-Spiller-is-in-Marrones-Dog-House-(as-told-by-Joe-B-)

http://i.imgur.com/ENMywZI.jpg?1

This is baffling.

From the tail end of 2011 thru the entirety of 2012, his decision making was great, his ability to run it inside improved greatly, and his ability to catch was money. Yeah, bouncing it outside was his forte, but he looked very much the part of a complete RB.

Why he's suddenly failing to produce and suffering these mental lapses, I just don't understand. He's much better than this.

At some point I have to imagine this slump will end. He's got too much talent to squander it.

[lightningbolt444]

This is baffling.

From the tail end of 2011 thru the entirety of 2012, his decision making was great, his ability to run it inside improved greatly, and his ability to catch was money. Yeah, bouncing it outside was his forte, but he looked very much the part of a complete RB.

Why he's suddenly failing to produce and suffering these mental lapses, I just don't understand. He's much better than this.

At some point I have to imagine this slump will end. He's got too much talent to squander it.

My guess is he is being told to trust his instincts and not to think just run. His instinct is to bounce it outside which is not always the right one. Where the previous regime had him thinking about trying to hit the hole instead of just following your instinct.

[Fletch]

Why is it that everyone assumes that this is Spiller's anomalous season instead of last season being his anomalous season?

He sucked in 2010 and 2011, this year he's been average at best, mediocre otherwise. Given that his "big play ability" is supposed to shine, how come he only has 1 TD on well over a hundred touches?

Maybe he just isn't that good and got a little lucky with "one of those seasons" last year.

He wasn't that great a rusher at Clemson, he made his name on returns mostly. He cracked 1,000 rushing yards there only once and that courtesy of the conference championship game, if Clemson hadn't been in that game he wouldn't have gone over 1,000 that season either.

Everyone's wondering why a duck doesn't bark like a dog.

[YardRat]

Joe B. is an idiot.

CJ Spiller is at his best when he's running in space. He always has been. He always will be. He did a better job running between the Tackles last year. But, he's best in space.

CJ gets big yards when he gets room to move. That's the best way to use him.

And as far as vision goes CJ does want to look outside rather than inside because that's where he's at his best. Just the way that is. Every RB in the league will choose the wrong holes or smaller holes sometimes. Every single one. To hen pick a few plays and question vision is nothing more than media BS.

Joe's a fool. Never liked that guy. Ever notice that he can't make a single sentence without the long AAAAHHHHHHHHH at the start?

CJ needs to understand there is space beyond the line of scrimmage, when he bursts past the defensive line and gets to the second level. Space isn't only defined as outside, beyond the tackles, and with the speed of today's defenders it's much easier for them to stretch out a play and then turn it back inside to a couple of tacklers.

[YardRat]

I posted in a different thread, the loss of Levitre is underestimated by many.

With poor play from the LG & the RT, the Bills are WEAK on both sides of the OL.

Buffalo is still #7 in the league for rushing yards per game, and averaging 4.3 yards per carry. Not much different than last year, and much better than Levitre's first three years in the league. Not a huge downgrade (if any) considering the foolish money he was looking for.

[ServoBillieves]

You can't be serious with this thread. The pictures themselves show that no matter what, he was boned. If he could've gotten 1-3 yards more on the play, who gives a **** when your quarterback can't convert? And Levitre is gone people, get over it and move on to current Bills who are ****ing things up.

[BertSquirtgum]

You can't be serious with this thread. The pictures themselves show that no matter what, he was boned. If he could've gotten 1-3 yards more on the play, who gives a **** when your quarterback can't convert? And Levitre is gone people, get over it and move on to current Bills who are ****ing things up.

This post is a ******.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

A. That safety, Ryan Clark about 10 yards from the point of attack is also in the middle of a side step, they'd both meet after a gain of 3 yards if the point of attack holds up. Looking at that, obviously can't see the corner on that side, it looks like breaking that run off to the outside is the best chance of more than a minimal gain. All Chandler needs to do is turn his player inside as CJ goes past.
Ryan Clark is the free safety, as a coach you dream about getting your 1st round pick halfback 1v1 against the free safety in space.

B. Not only is there a linebacker in that hole there's a safety already at least jogging toward it as CJ is in the middle of a side step. Not to mention the fact Pears doesn't look like he's in any position to make a block, say he does, he's only blocking the linebacker or the safety...the other is making the tackle for another minimal gain. Someone needs to chip on the defender in the middle as he has inside position to stop a run up the middle before it goes anywhere.
Right, this isn't a situation where he's going to break off a big one but this is where he needs to get the cheap yards and go back to the huddle.

C. Pears is flat out beat and the only way he stops his defender is if he grabs him if CJ bounces that back to the right. It looks like CJ is trying to run to the small hole inside of Cordy Glenn. Unfortunately Eric Wood is beat on that side. No matter where CJ ran on that play it would have failed. Spiller going left actually saves 9 yards as Pears would have likely ended up being flagged if Spiller ran that way
Pears isn't "flat out beat," he let his man go because it's a designed read option. Look at Manuel's eyes. Manuel gives the ball (correctly) and CJ cannot cut all the way against the grain there. He can, however, cut into one of the holes on the line to gain some yards.

You can't be serious with this thread. The pictures themselves show that no matter what, he was boned. If he could've gotten 1-3 yards more on the play, who gives a **** when your quarterback can't convert? And Levitre is gone people, get over it and move on to current Bills who are ****ing things up.
It's a lot easier to convert a 3rd and 5 than it is to convert a 3rd and 12.

[TacklingDummy]

He's useless today against the Jets,

[BertSquirtgum]

He's useless much of the time. No vision = useless as a running back.

[TacklingDummy]

13 carries, 6 yards.

When Jackson no longer has it, the Bills need to think about drafting another RB.
CJ is just not an every down back in this league.

[Novacane]

Really disappointed in CJ this year. Sure glad he was drafted by another Bills fan the pick before me in fantasy. I planned to take him first and had to settle for Drew Brees.

[TacklingDummy]

Really disappointed in CJ this year. Sure glad he was drafted by another Bills fan the pick before me in fantasy. I planned to take him first and had to settle for Drew Brees.

You bought into Marrones giving the ball to CJ until he pukes statement.

[BertSquirtgum]

Hackett was the one that said that but either way. CJ is no good this year.

[kingJofNYC]

CJ never had great vision, but our run schemes are much different this year.

We rarely use him in the passing game as well. Last season he averaged 10 yards a catch, had a boat load of yards through the air. He's pressing too, trying to hit the big one, coaches telling him to run up inside, causing him to hesitate and spin his wheels. Not writing him off just yet. Gailey knew how to use his backs in space, Hackett's not very good in that dept. Someone should get him some tape of the Saints using Sproles.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

CJ never had great vision, but our run schemes are much different this year.

We rarely use him in the passing game as well. Last season he averaged 10 yards a catch, had a boat load of yards through the air. He's pressing too, trying to hit the big one, coaches telling him to run up inside, causing him to hesitate and spin his wheels. Not writing him off just yet. Gailey knew how to use his backs in space, Hackett's not very good in that dept. Someone should get him some tape of the Saints using Sproles.

Yeah if only our head coach had previously used an scatback with receiving ability in his offenses.

http://www.awfulannouncing.com/images/stories/bushsomersault.jpg

Oh.

[kingJofNYC]

HC isn't calling the plays though. Remember when Gailey split our backs wide and had them isolated against linebackers in space, remember when Fred would roast the slow ass Pat LBs...Hackett doesn't do that

Bush is a better player now than he was with the Saints. Amazing how quickly you guys turn on players....

[IlluminatusUIUC]

HC isn't calling the plays though. Remember when Gailey split our backs wide and had them isolated against linebackers in space, remember when Fred would roast the slow ass Pat LBs...Hackett doesn't do that

Then Marrone needs to take a stronger hand. Offense is his side of the ball, after all.


Bush is a better player now than he was with the Saints. Amazing how quickly you guys turn on players....

He's a better halfback, but better player is debatable. With the Saints, he was an excellent receiver and returnman, something that Spiller was with Gailey but has lost under Marrone.