EJ's progression

[GvilleBills]

I've been very hard on EJ, and I will continue to be when necessary. I have serious doubts that his accuracy and pocket guts can be corrected to a franchise QB level. My hope, as a Bills fan, is that he will.
Today was a step in the right direction. His accuracy, while improved, was still questionable. No doubt the wind was a factor on the loftier throws, and he was helped by some nice shin catches.
Thing is, EJ deserves credit for being more decisive today. His confidence rose, and he became more assertive.
He made mistakes, but today was a step in the right direction.
Nice way to head into the bye.

[jdaltroy5]

"They were actually really poorly thrown balls.

The wind was knocking his errant passes right into the hands of his receivers."

-Tackling Dummy

[black N yellow]

I'm not saying EJ is Peyton Manning, or ever will be...but Peyton tossed 28 interceptions in his rookie season.

[BillsFever21]

It's encouraging but it's only one game. It was nice to finally see him have some balls out there today though. He may have had no choice with Johnson and Woods out though. All we had left was Graham and Goodwin who are mainly just speed guys running the go route. They're not going to move the chains, etc. It's either try and hit them deep or get nothing at all.

[DesertFox24]

Tom Brady still makes mistakes in games. Look I agree he should never be complacent and always working to be perfect.

[Night Train]

Bills meet some struggling opponents after the bye and I'm interested to see how Manuel plays.

IMO - He's very raw and needs to roll out more to create some clean passing lanes.

[Crisis]

It's encouraging but it's only one game. It was nice to finally see him have some balls out there today though. He may have had no choice with Johnson and Woods out though. All we had left was Graham and Goodwin who are mainly just speed guys running the go route. They're not going to move the chains, etc. It's either try and hit them deep or get nothing at all.

I think Goodwin has shown he's capable of playing underneath some as well. His greatest strength is as a burner but he's not purely one dimensional.

TJ Graham is as one dimensional as it gets.

[stuckincincy]

I've been very hard on EJ, and I will continue to be when necessary. I have serious doubts that his accuracy and pocket guts can be corrected to a franchise QB level. My hope, as a Bills fan, is that he will.
Today was a step in the right direction. His accuracy, while improved, was still questionable. No doubt the wind was a factor on the loftier throws, and he was helped by some nice shin catches.
Thing is, EJ deserves credit for being more decisive today. His confidence rose, and he became more assertive.
He made mistakes, but today was a step in the right direction.
Nice way to head into the bye.

Nice game for the youngster. I didn't see the game, but looking at the stats, this hurry-up stuff has been toned down.

[Novacane]

It's encouraging but it's only one game. It was nice to finally see him have some balls out there today though. He may have had no choice with Johnson and Woods out though. All we had left was Graham and Goodwin who are mainly just speed guys running the go route. They're not going to move the chains, etc. It's either try and hit them deep or get nothing at all.



I think Goodwin proved today he can do both.

[GvilleBills]

Holy triple post Batman.

[BillsImpossible]

So was Lee Evans...speaking of one dimensional.

[BillsFever21]

We definitely have some weak opponents coming up but we only play one more game in Buffalo. This is a totally different team when it comes to playing at home and playing on the road.

Tampa Bay is also playing much better the past couple weeks and they still only have one more loss like we do. Considering the game is in Tampa Bay that far from makes it a gimmie game. No game is with Buffalo but it makes it even less of a sure thing since we play them on the road.

[GvilleBills]

Nice game for the youngster. I didn't see the game, but looking at the stats, this hurry-up stuff has been toned down.
It seems to be a better offense when they slow it down a bit. IMO, the OL is built to get physical, just haven't fully dominated. It's fun when they get in a rhythm.

[GvilleBills]

I actually weigh today a little heavier for EJ. His first chance at revenge, and he came out swinging. Cool points.

[cookie G]

It was a big game for him, not merely because he came back from a bad showing last week, but because he played well against a team that stymied him the last time out.

The Jets could have easily gotten into his head, but he showed a short memory and didn't let his last outing against them affect him.

That's a huge plus, IMO, considering he'll be facing them twice a year.

[Fixxxer]

It was a big game for him, not merely because he came back from a bad showing last week, but because he played well against a team that stymied him the last time out.

The Jets could have easily gotten into his head, but he showed a short memory and didn't let his last outing against them affect him.

That's a huge plus, IMO, considering he'll be facing them twice a year.

That's a great point, they slapped him silly in the first round, nice to see him rebounding and the defense returning favors to Geno.

[BillsFever21]

Maybe the coaches finally realized there's a reason why there is only one QB in the NFL that runs the no huddle and hurry-up offense the entire game? Not to mention when you have a rookie QB and you don't have the talent to run it.

[JCBills]

Nobody has really brought up how he had to carry the team today. The run game wasn't there, I think this was their worst game running the ball. The Jets D is also one of the best in the biz. He showed a lot today.

[TacklingDummy]

"They were actually really poorly thrown balls.

The wind was knocking his errant passes right into the hands of his receivers."

-Tackling Dummy
Lol

[coastal]

We had a convincing division win... and EJ was a big part of that.

thats a positive step.

[WagonCircler]

Nobody has really brought up how he had to carry the team today. The run game wasn't there, I think this was their worst game running the ball. The Jets D is also one of the best in the biz. He showed a lot today.

Eaaaaasy there, Killer.

The Defense carried the team today.

[JCBills]

Eaaaaasy there, Killer.

The Defense carried the team today.

I'm obviously talking in context of the offensive side of the ball. Of course the D was phenomenal.

[GvilleBills]

Goodwin, Graham, and Hogan did their part to help EJ.
It was a nice effort all around.

- - - Updated - - -

Goodwin, Graham, and Hogan did their part to help EJ.
It was a nice effort all around.

[JCBills]

Goodwin, Graham, and Hogan did their part to help EJ.
It was a nice effort all around.

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Goodwin, Graham, and Hogan did their part to help EJ.
It was a nice effort all around.

Chandler had that huge play too, thought I wish he dove for what would have been another big play on the slight overthrow by EJ.

[WagonCircler]

I'm obviously talking in context of the offensive side of the ball. Of course the D was phenomenal.

The Defense even carried the Offense. Amazing drive starts and field position all day long.

Tuel could have won this game.

[GvilleBills]

Optimistic, but one thing of note:
Trent Edwards best game of his career came AFTER the hit that effectively ended him as a legit starter in the league.
Great momentum into the bye. Lets get healthy Bills!!

[jdaltroy5]

The Defense even carried the Offense. Amazing drive starts and field position all day long.

Tuel could have won this game.Tuel might've been able to win the game, but there's no way he would've been able to hang 30 points up on them.

There's also a very good chance that he would've thrown a pick 6 that could've swung the game before it was out of hand. He's already thrown 2 of them in 5 quarters.

EJ played a good game. It's ok to admit that.

[pmoon6]

Tuel might've been able to win the game, but there's no way he would've been able to hang 30 points up on them.

There's also a very good chance that he would've thrown a pick 6 that could've swung the game before it was out of hand. He's already thrown 2 of them in 5 quarters.

EJ played a good game. It's ok to admit that.With all the negative stuff about Jeff Tuel, it's interesting that in his first start he led the offense to 470 yards against the Chiefs. The Peyton Manning led Broncos gained 427.

Aside from an ill advised pass, the undrafted rookie 4th string QB did better than anyone could have expected.

I just don't get the hate.

[jdaltroy5]

With all the negative stuff about Jeff Tuel, it's interesting that in his first start he led the offense to 470 yards against the Chiefs. The Peyton Manning led Broncos gained 427.

Aside from an ill advised pass, the undrafted rookie 4th string QB did better than anyone could have expected.

I just don't get the hate.I don't hate him at all. He is what he is. An UDFA rookie with very limited experience.

I just don't believe he's better or as good as EJ the way that some people do.

[better days]

It's encouraging but it's only one game. It was nice to finally see him have some balls out there today though. He may have had no choice with Johnson and Woods out though. All we had left was Graham and Goodwin who are mainly just speed guys running the go route. They're not going to move the chains, etc. It's either try and hit them deep or get nothing at all.

Not really true.

Hogan & Chandler moved the chains all game.

[pmoon6]

I don't hate him at all. He is what he is. An UDFA rookie with very limited experience.

I just don't believe he's better or as good as EJ the way that some people do.Neither do I, but consider this.

Jim Kelly and Frank Reich are relatively the same age. Reich was a big part of Kelly's pregame preparation. He also could win you some games when Jim got hurt.

Maybe Jeff Tuel can function in the same capacity.

It's also interesting that Tuel got so much **** from so called Bills' Fans. He's the underdog and a player our fanbase used to embrace. Like Lou Piccone, Steve Tasker and early in his career, Andre Reed.

I remember this one guy who worked at a hospital I serviced in the '80's. He said "It's a shame Jim Kelly doesn't have anybody to throw to". I said Andre Reed. He said "Andre Who?" I told him, you watch, this guy is going to be good. The rest is history.

[jdaltroy5]

Neither do I, but consider this.

Jim Kelly and Frank Reich are relatively the same age. Reich was a big part of Kelly's pregame preparation. He also could win you some games when Jim got hurt.

Maybe Jeff Tuel can function in the same capacity.I hope he can. I'm not even in the "cut Tuel" crowd. I didn't even really harp on him for that pick 6 vs. the Chiefs. It was supposed to be a quick slant and the DB that picked it off wasn't even supposed to be there.

What I have an issue with is people thinking that the defense did all the heavy lifting and anyone could've won that game under centre yesterday.

The defense played very well, no doubt, but so did EJ. He didn't just dink and dunk it and protect the lead. He went for the throat and threw it deep.

I'm excited about his progress and I hope he can maintain that level of consistency for the rest of the season.

[justasportsfan]

I've been very hard on EJ, and I will continue to be when necessary. I have serious doubts that his accuracy and pocket guts can be corrected to a franchise QB level. My hope, as a Bills fan, is that he will.
Today was a step in the right direction. His accuracy, while improved, was still questionable. No doubt the wind was a factor on the loftier throws, and he was helped by some nice shin catches.
Thing is, EJ deserves credit for being more decisive today. His confidence rose, and he became more assertive.
He made mistakes, but today was a step in the right direction.
Nice way to head into the bye.


Up until yesterday EJ didn't look like a confident QB when it was time to release the ball. He had happy feet like Losman did in the pocket and when it came time to throw he was inaccurate because he panics. Zipping the ball trying to throw 5 yards is also a sign of panic.

[pmoon6]

I hope he can. I'm not even in the "cut Tuel" crowd. I didn't even really harp on him for that pick 6 vs. the Chiefs. It was supposed to be a quick slant and the DB that picked it off wasn't even supposed to be there.

What I have an issue with is people thinking that the defense did all the heavy lifting and anyone could've won that game under centre yesterday.

The defense played very well, no doubt, but so did EJ. He didn't just dink and dunk it and protect the lead. He went for the throat and threw it deep.

I'm excited about his progress and I hope he can maintain that level of consistency for the rest of the season.OK and I agree. I said before the game that Hackett had to be more aggressive with his play calling because we weren't going to run on the Jets. It looks like he learned from the Stealers game, although E.J may have checked down due to coverage in Pittsburgh. We can't really know and it may have just been Manuel being rusty.

So, the rookie overcame a poor performance and bounced back.

Ya gotta love that.

[better days]

Up until yesterday EJ didn't look like a confident QB when it was time to release the ball. He had happy feet like Losman did in the pocket and when it came time to throw he was inaccurate because he panics. Zipping the ball trying to throw 5 yards is also a sign of panic.

Agreed. That is how EJ played against the Steelers.

We need him to keep playing like he did against the Jets.

[WagonCircler]

Tuel might've been able to win the game, but there's no way he would've been able to hang 30 points up on them.

Really? Weren't there two drive starts inside the 20? And a TD by the Defense?

I already said that EJ played a good game, but to say that he "carried the entire team" (which is what I was responding to) is ridiculous.

[jdaltroy5]

Really? Weren't there two drive starts inside the 20? And a TD by the Defense?

I already said that EJ played a good game, but to say that he "carried the entire team" (which is what I was responding to) is ridiculous.I think the Byrd interception you're thinking about was brought back by the block in the back penalty on the return. I think it was brought back to around the 30 yard line.

And the reason I said "hang 30" is because I didn't even count the pick 6 that brought us to 37 points.

I think Tuel could've won the game, because our defense really set up the offense. But Manuel also had 20 points from drives that started in our own end of the field.

I don't think Tuel could've done that.

[better days]

Really? Weren't there two drive starts inside the 20? And a TD by the Defense?

I already said that EJ played a good game, but to say that he "carried the entire team" (which is what I was responding to) is ridiculous.

NOBODY said EJ carried the entire team.

It was obvious JCBills was talking about the OFFENSE when he said that.

[pmoon6]

It's very rare that a rookie can carry a team. It's even uncommon for a veteran to do it. That's why you field 22 players on offense and defense and not just one.

Still a team game no matter how many new rules the NFL choses to implement.

[better days]

It's very rare that a rookie can carry a team. It's even uncommon for a veteran to do it. That's why you field 22 players on offense and defense and not just one.

Still a team game no matter how many new rules the NFL choses to implement.

Well, the Bills have TWO rookies that look to be a BIG part of this team for years to come.

EJ on offense.

Kiko on defense.

[WagonCircler]

NOBODY said EJ carried the entire team.

It was obvious JCBills was talking about the OFFENSE when he said that.

Then he should have said that.

He didn't.

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Well, the Bills have TWO rookies that look to be a BIG part of this team for years to come.

EJ on offense.

Kiko on defense.

Don't forget Goodwin.

[GvilleBills]

OK and I agree. I said before the game that Hackett had to be more aggressive with his play calling because we weren't going to run on the Jets. It looks like he learned from the Stealers game, although E.J may have checked down due to coverage in Pittsburgh. We can't really know and it may have just been Manuel being rusty.

So, the rookie overcame a poor performance and bounced back.

Ya gotta love that.
That's the whole point of this thread. Just because people have doubts about EJ (legit concerns) doesn't make them less of a fan. What happened yesterday was awesome. He came out swinging on a team that embarrassed him before. He punched the boogeyman in the mouth. I loved that.
The OL kicked ass yesterday, EJ has to show he won't revert when under duress. Great momentum into the bye.

[WagonCircler]

That's the whole point of this thread. Just because people have doubts about EJ (legit concerns) doesn't make them less of a fan. What happened yesterday was awesome. He came out swinging on a team that embarrassed him before. He punched the boogeyman in the mouth. I loved that.
The OL kicked ass yesterday, EJ has to show he won't revert when under duress. Great momentum into the bye.

Perfect.

[jdaltroy5]

That's the whole point of this thread. Just because people have doubts about EJ (legit concerns) doesn't make them less of a fan. What happened yesterday was awesome. He came out swinging on a team that embarrassed him before. He punched the boogeyman in the mouth. I loved that.
The OL kicked ass yesterday, EJ has to show he won't revert when under duress. Great momentum into the bye.
There's a difference between "doubts" and "cut his ass, Jeff Tuel is better, we need to take a new QB with every pick in every round from now on."

[sukie]

what does "momentum into the bye" mean. Wouldn't the bye kill any momentum.

"Great game... Now sit down a week and do nothing!"

"Thanks coach."

"Oh and put you feet up and get comfy... Watch "The Good Wife" on Amazon... wouldn't want stress to kill your 2 weeks worth of stored up momentum."

[better days]

Then he should have said that.

He didn't.

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Don't forget Goodwin.

Not forgetting about Goodwin, but EJ is the Leader on Offense

And a little down the road Kiko will be the Leader on Defense.

I think both of them are going to be core players for this team.

[GvilleBills]

There's a difference between "doubts" and "cut his ass, Jeff Tuel is better, we need to take a new QB with every pick in every round from now on."
I agree. But it's silly how the anyone with questions about EJ is lumped into the latter crowd. I understand you're being hyperbolic, but you get my point.

[GvilleBills]

what does "momentum into the bye" mean. Wouldn't the bye kill any momentum.

"Great game... Now sit down a week and do nothing!"

"Thanks coach."

"Oh and put you feet up and get comfy... Watch "The Good Wife" on Amazon... wouldn't want stress to kill your 2 weeks worth of stored up momentum."

a positive, confident mindset taken into 2 weeks of productive practices. A build able foundation. And a shot at being healthier than at any point this season heading to Toronto.

[sukie]

i don't think there will be 2 weeks of productive practices... Doesn't the CBA mandate a certain amount of down time during the bye?

[GvilleBills]

i don't think there will be 2 weeks of productive practices... Doesn't the CBA mandate a certain amount of down time during the bye?
While the exact amount isn't something I'm sure of, I think it only amounts to a few days. 1.5 weeks of productive practice, uninterrupted by team specific game planning and the physical & travel toll of a game day. It's still great momentum in my book.

[jdaltroy5]

I agree. But it's silly how the anyone with questions about EJ is lumped into the latter crowd. I understand you're being hyperbolic, but you get my point.
Nothing wrong with questioning him. I seriously doubted him after the Steelers game. I still have my reservations.

But look at how many threads there were last week about how Manuel sucked and how we needed to take a new QB next year.

I'm not saying that's still not an option, but I don't see how anyone can come to a solid conclusion based on 5.5 games.

[GvilleBills]

Nothing wrong with questioning him. I seriously doubted him after the Steelers game. I still have my reservations.

But look at how many threads there were last week about how Manuel sucked and how we needed to take a new QB next year.

I'm not saying that's still not an option, but I don't see how anyone can come to a solid conclusion based on 5.5 games.
He played in a clean pocket yesterday, so my concerns are still alive. While my questions about accuracy, and more importantly guts, originated from his time at FSU...they carried into his career here. You and I discussed in depth, my concerns are directly fueled by if his issues are even correctable. I don't question his work ethic, or physical ability. I wonder how accurate he can become. My greatest concern is the chutzpah. You saw it yesterday on the Graham TD. Faced with pressure, he just hung it out there. Credit to TJ, but if the DB had a clue that's a pick or incomplete.
He sacked up for the most part yesterday in his first "revenge" game, and he deserves a great deal of credit in my book for that.

[Mr. Pink]

Still have major reservations on EJ based upon his entire body of work but yesterday was a step in the right direction.

If we can see more of yesterday's performance and less of Baltimore or Pittsburgh EJ we might have a guy that can be built around.

Seeing him throw deep yesterday makes me wonder what the hell Hackett was thinking in the rest of EJs starts as well.

[better days]

i don't think there will be 2 weeks of productive practices... Doesn't the CBA mandate a certain amount of down time during the bye?

Yeah. I think the Bills players will get about a week off. Chill & heal with the positive mindset that the team is coming together.

The Coaches however do not get that same time off. No doubt they will go through the film of the games played to evaluate players on the roster & to see what works & what doesn't.

Then make a game plan against the Dirty Birds.

[jdaltroy5]

He played in a clean pocket yesterday, so my concerns are still alive. While my questions about accuracy, and more importantly guts, originated from his time at FSU...they carried into his career here. You and I discussed in depth, my concerns are directly fueled by if his issues are even correctable. I don't question his work ethic, or physical ability. I wonder how accurate he can become. My greatest concern is the chutzpah. You saw it yesterday on the Graham TD. Faced with pressure, he just hung it out there. Credit to TJ, but if the DB had a clue that's a pick or incomplete.
He sacked up for the most part yesterday in his first "revenge" game, and he deserves a great deal of credit in my book for that.
I think he started to realize that his back was against the wall. He HAD to start throwing it deep or else he was going to see the bench.

Maybe that throw started to give him some confidence in his receivers and his own arm.

He seemed to really open it up after that.

[JCBills]

Then he should have said that.

He didn't.

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Don't forget Goodwin.

I made it pretty obvious and then clarified, but oook.

[GvilleBills]

I think he started to realize that his back was against the wall. He HAD to start throwing it deep or else he was going to see the bench.

Maybe that throw started to give him some confidence in his receivers and his own arm.

He seemed to really open it up after that.

And in the post game talking about just going out and letting it rip...it looks good on the young man.

I'll say this much, not a lot of teams want a piece of the Bills team that showed up yesterday.

[GvilleBills]

I made it pretty obvious and then clarified, but oook.

I'm going to need to see it one more time...in super slo-mo...
;)

[pmoon6]

what does "momentum into the bye" mean. Wouldn't the bye kill any momentum.

"Great game... Now sit down a week and do nothing!"

"Thanks coach."

"Oh and put you feet up and get comfy... Watch "The Good Wife" on Amazon... wouldn't want stress to kill your 2 weeks worth of stored up momentum."It's a time to help heal any nagging injuries and have a short rest in the middle of the maelstrom that is the NFL season.

[kishoph]

Well, the Bills have TWO rookies that look to be a BIG part of this team for years to come.

EJ on offense.

Kiko on defense.





Don't forget Goodwin.

You also have Woods and I think Nickell Robey will be around for a while and contribute.

[pmoon6]

i don't think there will be 2 weeks of productive practices... Doesn't the CBA mandate a certain amount of down time during the bye?Yes, but that doesn't stop them from driving iron, training and looking at film. It also give the coaches a chance to delve deeper into game film and a few days of mental rest.

The season is a grind for everyone concerned and a short respite is a good thing.

[GvilleBills]

Yes, but that doesn't stop them from driving iron, training and looking at film. It also give the coaches a chance to delve deeper into game film and a few days of mental rest.

The season is a grind for everyone concerned and a short respite is a good thing.
Moonie, it would appear we are of like minds here...
:D

[pmoon6]

Moonie, it would appear we are of like minds here...
:DDon't say that! There is already a private board petition to have me deemed legally insane, locked up and banished.

Post a retraction lest you suffer the same fate!!!

[GvilleBills]

Don't say that! There is already a private board petition to have me deemed legally insane, locked up and banished.

Post a retraction lest you suffer the same fate!!!
Already guilty by association, I must take my medicine.

[TigerJ]

I'm not saying EJ is Peyton Manning, or ever will be...but Peyton tossed 28 interceptions in his rookie season.I am a supporter of EJ Manuel, and think he's going to progress and be a solid QB for the Bills. He might even become elite, but I think this is something of an apples to oranges comparison. Manning came into the league with a reputation as a prolific and fearless passer. When he hit the NFL, he kept on doing the same stuff he had done at Tennessee, but NFL defenses are a lot more sophisticated. What worked in college didn't always work so well in the pros.

Manuel was a productive QB at Florida State, but he was not into setting NCAA records. His reputation was mostly as a very coachable player who was team guy. He didn't get super sophisticated coaching at FSU, but did well with what he had. Since coming to Buffalo he's pretty much been a coach's dream. He studies well, he does everything the coaches ask. He doesn't push the envelope, going beyond what the coaches ask of him on the field. Coupled with that, you have a head coach and offensive coordinator that philosophically seem to believe in bringing their QB along slowly and controlling risks. The bottom line is that Manuel doesn't throw a lot of interceptions because he is content to play within a system which at the moment is pretty risk averse. Not every rookie is going to work within that same kind of system. What I saw Sunday is that maybe Manuel is getting more comfortable and confident, and at the same time, maybe Hackett is opening up the playbook.

As a fan, it has been pull out my hair frustrating at times. It has looked a lot like the Bills are playing not to lose a lot of times this season. But maybe it's just the way Marrone and Hackett are mentoring their franchise QB.