Wow, MNF, Kuechly hugging Gronkowski on the last play

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Didn't he got flagged in similar situation at buffalo? From my seat, that play can go either way. But if the Brady pass is anywhere near Gronkowski or Gronkowski showing attempt to come back for the ball, there should be no doubt of a penalty. The Panthers got away with one.

16707

[RedEyE]

I had the same thought concerning the Bills game. That flag is the difference between a win and a loss.

But the Patriots have certainly had their fair share of calls to go their way. Belicheat and Kraft must be waiting to open the checkbook until just before the playoffs.

[Meathead]

about fifteen more of those and theyll be even

[pmoon6]

Didn't he got flagged in similar situation at buffalo? From my seat, that play can go either way. But if the Brady pass is anywhere near Gronkowski or Gronkowski showing attempt to come back for the ball, there should be no doubt of a penalty. The Panthers got away with one.That was a joke. The backer grabbed Gronkowski and took him out of the play. The back judge threw a flag and the referee decided to pick it up. Must have been in contact with the league via earpiece so now their Network can pimp Cam Newton. Brady has been over done. Maybe some defender can put Peyton Manning out so they can have a televised bedside vigil on his moment to moment status. Ratings!!!!!!

Not that I mind really, other than I want games to be called fairly. The Patriots have been beneficiaries of so many calls starting with the "Tuck Rule" that turnabout is fair play.

[IAG]

I am surprised they just did not "give it to him". See 1998 and Shawn Jefferson.

[pmoon6]

I am surprised they just did not "give it to him". See 1998 and Shawn Jefferson.One reason to have Ron Winter executed. Along with every other Bills' game he's done.

[TacklingDummy]

Last time Kuechly was called for pass interference it negated an interception and caused the Bills to win.

The one last night should have been called too.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The subtle difference that I can recall was Stevie was on his way to where the ball was thrown to while being grabbed by Kuechly and here, on video's slow mo, you can clearly see Gronk's momentum was taking him towards the back of end zone and Brady's ball was under thrown (Gronk would have to catch the ball very close to turf), giving the ref an excuse of the ball was going to be intercepted regardless what Kuechly was doing.

[GvilleBills]

I am surprised they just did not "give it to him". See 1998 and Shawn Jefferson.
My first thought too. I slept better knowing the Patsies got **** on for once.

[EricStratton]

The ball was deemed uncatchable and because it was thrown short and Gronk didn't do a good enough job trying to come back for it it stuck.

[pmoon6]

The ball was deemed uncatchable and because it was thrown short and Gronk didn't do a good enough job trying to come back for it it stuck.You can still make a case for defensive holding even if it was uncatchable which gives the Patriots the ball and a new set of downs.

[sukie]

yeah... holding at least. I am outraged and vow to not watch another second of NFL football.

(Can a DVR fast forward through the Superbowl and ONLY show commercials?)

[pmoon6]

yeah... holding at least. I am outraged and vow to not watch another second of NFL football.

(Can a DVR fast forward through the Superbowl and ONLY show commercials?)Too funny.

[pmoon6]

You can still make a case for defensive holding even if it was uncatchable which gives the Patriots the ball and a new set of downs.Sorry, the Patriots would have only got one more play since the game was over.

I just read the official explanation that would have made Richard Nixon proud.

[DraftBoy]

Should of been Defensive Holding for sure. Pats have to take this lump.

[The King]

Then there was the no call for holding when the Pats played the Saints.

Brady is the problem with the Patriots though, he's becoming way too one dimensional.

[pmoon6]

Then there was the no call for holding when the Pats played the Saints.

Brady is the problem with the Patriots though, he's becoming way too one dimensional.I wish we had that "problem".

[DraftBoy]

Then there was the no call for holding when the Pats played the Saints.

Brady is the problem with the Patriots though, he's becoming way too one dimensional.

He has certainly lost something this year, whether he can do what the greats like Montana, and Favre have done and somehow find it next year will be part of what defines his legacy.

[better days]

It would have been interference if Gronk had ANY chance to make a play on that ball.

BUT Gronk was at the back end of the end zone while the ball Brady threw was just inside it.

It was an UNCATCHABLE ball so NO INTERFERENCE should have been called.

The Brady we all know from past years would have completed that pass to Gronk without question.

Brady is OLD & not the player he once was.

And it was too funny to watch & hear Brady curse out the Ref as they walked off the field.

[trapezeus]

"There was no explanation given to me," Belichick said when asked if he'd received one. "The officials ran off the field. The last time I started asking an official about a call [vs. Baltimore in 2012], that was the wrong thing to do so [he was fined $50,000], so I have no idea.

oh, so running off the field without any handshakes or explanations is now deemed poor sportsmanship by Mr. Sportsmanship himself.

i hope the pats remaining games get screwed like this until 2028. Let's see how all the "pats fans" stick around now. see how they travel. wankers.

[The King]

He has certainly lost something this year, whether he can do what the greats like Montana, and Favre have done and somehow find it next year will be part of what defines his legacy.

1. I think his legacy is set.
2. Welker made him look much better than he was.

His throws to Amendola are so low he can only catch it and fall to the ground. Then he checks to Vereen a bunch but he can't get and YAC. It's the same Brady but the results are different because he doesn't have the athleticism on the other side. And Brady won't deviate from what he's always done.

I can't wait to play them Week 17.

[trapezeus]

also, i'd love to see the NFL fine brady for abusing the ref. literally every other player in the league would face a fine for saying, "that was a ****ing horrible call" to his face the way brady did.

[pmoon6]

It would have been interference if Gronk had ANY chance to make a play on that ball.

BUT Gronk was at the back end of the end zone while the ball Brady threw was just inside it.

It was an UNCATCHABLE ball so NO INTERFERENCE should have been called.

The Brady we all know from past years would have completed that pass to Gronk without question.

Brady is OLD & not the player he once was.

And it was too funny to watch & hear Brady curse out the Ref as they walked off the field.Kookly grabbed him and made sure he was out of the play. Maybe not PI, but certainly holding. It also is suspect that a flag was thrown and then picked up, so at least one official thought it was a penalty.

Like I said, I'll cry no tears for the Patriots, but this goes to the integrity of the game.

[EricStratton]

One mention Chris Carter made this morning was as soon as the flag was thrown the ref called the side judge over to ask if the ball could be caught. When the side judge said the ball was to short to catch they picked up the flag properly.

In the Bills case early in the year the ball could have been caught..

[pmoon6]

"There was no explanation given to me," Belichick said when asked if he'd received one. "The officials ran off the field. The last time I started asking an official about a call [vs. Baltimore in 2012], that was the wrong thing to do so [he was fined $50,000], so I have no idea.

oh, so running off the field without any handshakes or explanations is now deemed poor sportsmanship by Mr. Sportsmanship himself.

i hope the pats remaining games get screwed like this until 2028. Let's see how all the "pats fans" stick around now. see how they travel. wankers.They had no fans prior to 1995.

I was coming back from Buffalo a few years ago and had a Bills' cap in my open carry on. It was a puddle jumper to Cleveland to connect with a flight into Denver. The stewardess, sorry "flight attendant", commented that I should follow a "real" football team...The New England Patriots. I said I'd rather stick sharp needles in my eyes. She looked astonished, so I asked her how long had she been a fan? She said after they won the Super Bowl. Typical.

[better days]

Kookly grabbed him and made sure he was out of the play. Maybe not PI, but certainly holding. It also is suspect that a flag was thrown and then picked up, so at least one official thought it was a penalty.

Like I said, I'll cry no tears for the Patriots, but this goes to the integrity of the game.

The last game the Pats* played, about 5 or 6 flags were thrown in the Pats* favor that the Ref picked up & did not call a penalty.

NOT PI because the ball was UNCATCHABLE. If Gronk was untouched, he would not have had a prayer in hell of making that catch.

And if you want to talk about integrity of the game, that has been ruined YEARS ago with all the HOLDING the Pats* get away with just as they did in this game.

[MikeInRoch]

It should have been defensive holding. No doubt about it.

[better days]

It should have been defensive holding. No doubt about it.

Maybe so. But as others have said, it is about time the Pats* had something not go their way.

They have been getting BS calls in their favor since before the BS tuck rule.

[Jry44]

Didn't he got flagged in similar situation at buffalo? From my seat, that play can go either way. But if the Brady pass is anywhere near Gronkowski or Gronkowski showing attempt to come back for the ball, there should be no doubt of a penalty. The Panthers got away with one.

16707

Good! The ***** Patriots befefit from more calls than any other team in the league, and it's not even close. It's about time they get a taste of the officials nuts!

[pmoon6]

The last game the Pats* played, about 5 or 6 flags were thrown in the Pats* favor that the Ref picked up & did not call a penalty.

NOT PI because the ball was UNCATCHABLE. If Gronk was untouched, he would not have had a prayer in hell of making that catch.

And if you want to talk about integrity of the game, that has been ruined YEARS ago with all the HOLDING the Pats* get away with just as they did in this game.Legalized holding goes on for every elite QB because the NFL needs to protect it's stars, but it is subtle and goes unnoticed by most fans. This was on national TV, was a blatant hold and probably decided the game. That will get noticed.

As far as Chris Carter or any other mouthpiece goes, they HAVE to side with the officials. The NFL is powerful and after all, this is "their" game as so many former players turned commentators say. Anything negative concerning officiating is frowned upon by the league and therefore the network. They won't tell you what they really think or they lose their job, so they tow the company line.

So now, we will see the spin put on to convince the uninitiated that it was the correct call.

[k-oneputt]

Poor Denver. They will get skull f-ed every which way next Sunday night at New England by the refs.

[The King]

"There was no explanation given to me," Belichick said when asked if he'd received one. "The officials ran off the field. The last time I started asking an official about a call [vs. Baltimore in 2012], that was the wrong thing to do so [he was fined $50,000], so I have no idea.

oh, so running off the field without any handshakes or explanations is now deemed poor sportsmanship by Mr. Sportsmanship himself.

i hope the pats remaining games get screwed like this until 2028. Let's see how all the "pats fans" stick around now. see how they travel. wankers. His Presser is hilarious.

[better days]

Legalized holding goes on for every elite QB because the NFL needs to protect it's stars, but it is subtle and goes unnoticed by most fans. This was on national TV, was a blatant hold and probably decided the game. That will get noticed.

As far as Chris Carter or any other mouthpiece goes, they HAVE to side with the officials. The NFL is powerful and after all, this is "their" game as so many former players turned commentators say. Anything negative concerning officiating is frowned upon by the league and therefore the network. They won't tell you what they really think or they lose their job, so they tow the company line.

So now, we will see the spin put on to convince the uninitiated that it was the correct call.

Like I said, The Pats* OL got away with a number of holds that should have been called if you want to talk about integrity of the game.

Maybe holding should have been called, but NOT interference. And again, the Pats* have had more than their share of BS calls & non calls go their way.

[Night Train]

The tuck rule eliminated all caring whether the Pats get screwed on a call in any future game.

They received the ultimate gift call and must pay over the next 100 lifetimes.

[pmoon6]

Like I said, The Pats* OL got away with a number of holds that should have been called if you want to talk about integrity of the game.

Maybe holding should have been called, but NOT interference. And again, the Pats* have had more than their share of BS calls & non calls go their way.I think I mentioned all those points.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "integrity" since it sees to have drawn your ire. Personally, I think the integrity of the game went out a long time ago when the NFL became so big that it changed from only football to multi billion dollar "entertainment".

Let's just say it was a bad none call that even the casual fan can identify.

[trapezeus]

Kookly grabbed him and made sure he was out of the play. Maybe not PI, but certainly holding. It also is suspect that a flag was thrown and then picked up, so at least one official thought it was a penalty.

Like I said, I'll cry no tears for the Patriots, but this goes to the integrity of the game.

the integrity of the game was killed when they burned the tapes and offered no explanation. i am convinced the NFL just runs the league to ensure the most fickle of the fan bases win, so that they start buying gear.

they know they can f the s out of bills fans, jets fans and they still buy the tickets, still buy the gear. plus the giants are the good team to make NYC feel good about itself.

it's all about story lines these days and what will grab the league more money.

[pmoon6]

the integrity of the game was killed when they burned the tapes and offered no explanation. i am convinced the NFL just runs the league to ensure the most fickle of the fan bases win, so that they start buying gear.

they know they can f the s out of bills fans, jets fans and they still buy the tickets, still buy the gear. plus the giants are the good team to make NYC feel good about itself.

it's all about story lines these days and what will grab the league more money.Well said.

[better days]

I think I mentioned all those points.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "integrity" since it sees to have drawn your ire. Personally, I think the integrity of the game went out a long time ago when the NFL became so big that it changed from only football to multi billion dollar "entertainment".

Let's just say it was a bad none call that even the casual fan can identify.

Yeah, let's just say it was a bad non call.......................the FIRST bad non call to go against the Pats* in the Brady era rather than in the Pats* favor.

[JoeMama]

Didn't he got flagged in similar situation at buffalo? From my seat, that play can go either way. But if the Brady pass is anywhere near Gronkowski or Gronkowski showing attempt to come back for the ball, there should be no doubt of a penalty. The Panthers got away with one.

16707

Welcome to reality, New England!

After 13+ years of being sheltered and pampered by the refs to the point of absurdity, they deserve an unfair loss to remind them what it's like to be just another team.

Everybody gets screwed from time to time. That's how human error works.

Can't think of a more deserving team to finally get screwed.

[trapezeus]

Well said.

just to pile on, in the last 5 years, all of a sudden seattle is a power house team with the "best and loudest fans". They had an ****** dome and no one showed up in the 80's and 90's. then microsoft, starbucks and music hits seattle and wait for it.....best fans in the world. They had that greenbay hail mary play. oh, check that out, greenbay is the only public team and smallest of all team markets. dedicated fan base that shows up through thick or thin.....seattle gets a gift. hmmmmm.

this all started to happen in the late 90's when it became more about absolute profit than running a sports league where the chips fall as they may. because when that happens you get small market teams playing in superbowls. when you watch it a little more carefully, you can squeeze more blood from the stone. 2 superbowls with NY and Boston? come on.

And a NE team that wins at home more than any other team over the last 13 years. good luck, denver. I hope you find a population growth figure or new industry to justify being coddled.

[Meathead]

The stewardess, sorry "flight attendant"

i believe the correct term is 'air whore'

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Is everyone forgetting the Jets game from earlier this very season? Or the Baltimore game with the replacement refs last year? Or the 2011 super bowl safety?

New England gets its share of bad calls these days.

[better days]

i believe the correct term is 'air whore'

Hey, watch it. My niece is a flight attendant.

[TacklingDummy]

One mention Chris Carter made this morning was as soon as the flag was thrown the ref called the side judge over to ask if the ball could be caught. When the side judge said the ball was to short to catch they picked up the flag properly.

In the Bills case early in the year the ball could have been caught..
If Johnson was 10 feet tall. Plus it's Johnson, he would have dropped it even if it was catchable.

[better days]

Is everyone forgetting the Jets game from earlier this very season? Or the Baltimore game with the replacement refs last year? Or the 2011 super bowl safety?

New England gets its share of bad calls these days.

Well, NE got the benefit of a non call in that game when OT Marcus Cannon leg whipped Panthers DE Charles Johnson INJURING him.

And NO the Pats* DO NOT get their SHARE of bad calls. It is more like 100 to 1 in their favor.

[Meathead]

The tuck rule eliminated all caring whether the Pats get screwed on a call in any future game.


personally i have no problem with the tuck rule call. i hate the rule and im glad its gone now, but it was in the books back then and it got called properly in that instance imo. sure the cheaters benefitted enormously from it but it wasnt really a gift since it was a real (stupid) rule at the time

something like the 'just give it to them' game is the other end of the spectrum. i dont believe the ref really said just give it to them, i think thats just one of those football lore stories. but they sure as hell blew the calls big time. not only did the the receiver not stay in bounds on the critical fourth down 'conversion', he also didnt make the first down marker, game should have been over. and then just to put an infamous stamp on their incompetence they called pi on the hail mary when in reality they almost never make that call unless you literally tackle the guy while the ball is in the air, which wasnt even close to happening on that play. easily the worst series of calls in nfl history imo

[pmoon6]

Hey, watch it. My niece is a flight attendant.Sorry and no disrespect, but when you join the "Mile High Club" in the rear restroom, it's hard to think of them with anymore than a wink and a nod.

But, I'm sure she is an exception.

[Meathead]

Hey, watch it. My niece is a flight attendant.

is she hot?

[TacklingDummy]

If New England would have scored, the game would have went over (47.5).

The Panthers covered the -2.5 spot.

[mikemac2001]

THe D holding on Olsen the drive before should have been PI

Brady throws the ball str8 to the ground running back was running the other way was still in pocket (no grounding)

The Pi on the sidelines on Car CB very similar looking to olsens holding call but was PI instead to give pats more yards

some iffy calls in the last 5 mins of the game idc either way bills won't catch pats but maybe we can ruin a bye in the last week of the season

[better days]

is she hot?

YES, & a natural blonde. BUT she is NOT a whore.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, NE got the benefit of a non call in that game when OT Marcus Cannon leg whipped Panthers DE Charles Johnson INJURING him.

And NO the Pats* DO NOT get their SHARE of bad calls. It is more like 100 to 1 in their favor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[pmoon6]

personally i have no problem with the tuck rule call. i hate the rule and im glad its gone now, but it was in the books back then and it got called properly in that instance imo. sure the cheaters benefitted enormously from it but it wasnt really a gift since it was a real (stupid) rule at the time

something like the 'just give it to them' game is the other end of the spectrum. i dont believe the ref really said just give it to them, i think thats just one of those football lore stories. but they sure as hell blew the calls big time. not only did the the receiver not stay in bounds on the critical fourth down 'conversion', he also didnt make the first down marker, game should have been over. and then just to put an infamous stamp on their incompetence they called pi on the hail mary when in reality they almost never make that call unless you literally tackle the guy while the ball is in the air, which wasnt even close to happening on that play. easily the worst series of calls in nfl history imoAndre Reed was mic'ed. You could hear it plain as day. Why do you think Wade removed the team from the field for the extra point?

I'm sure the evidence has disappeared since then and the NFL has done their job.

Convincing the rubes that it never happened and that it's just a legend.

[Meathead]

calm down man its just a joke

and i can think of no better compliment than for you to send me a picture that i can tape to my pillow while im humping it

[pmoon6]

calm down man its just a joke

and i can think of no better compliment than for you to send me a picture that i can tape to my pillow while im humping itWouldn't that actually require a dick?

[better days]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Why don't you go back to your Pats* board?

[Meathead]

Andre Reed was mic'ed. You could hear it plain as day. Why do you think Wade removed the team from the field for the extra point?


i remember that and its been a while since i heard it but i do recall at the time i wasnt convinced. a) i wasnt ever sure thats what was being said, and 3) even if it was theres no way to know if it was the ref or someone else perhaps saying it just to be sarcastic or something. i just cant ever see a ref saying something like that, its completely counter to everything their job stands for

wade didnt let the team come out for the xp to protest the three errors in a row that literally took a valid win away from the bills and gave it to the cheaters who were not the cheaters back then

- - - Updated - - -


Wouldn't that actually require a dick?

my vagina loves to hump pillows

[pmoon6]

Why don't you go back to your Pats* board?No, no, no. The correct response is "Don't you have some ambulance to chase?"

[imbondz]

LOL. Loved the ending last night.

[pmoon6]

i remember that and its been a while since i heard it but i do recall at the time i wasnt convinced. a) i wasnt ever sure thats what was being said, and 3) even if it was theres no way to know if it was the ref or someone else perhaps saying it just to be sarcastic or something. i just cant ever see a ref saying something like that, its completely counter to everything their job stands forEvidently you've missed the new outrage on the NFL news. Allegedly an official was verbally abusive to a player.

It seems Jonathan Martin has opened the floodgates for the poor, abused players to air their grievances in the media. But, they say any publicity is good.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Why don't you go back to your Pats* board?

Well, I can tell when someone's run out of ideas.

Look, I hate the Pats as much as anybody but the Tuck Rule game was twelve years ago. They caught a lot of breaks back then, some undeserved. But they've had a lot of calls go against them since - in addition to the three I mentioned, note the lack of a holding flag on the Tyree helmet catch.

[Novacane]

Long way before things even out. Fluck the Pats!

[better days]

Well, I can tell when someone's run out of ideas.

Look, I hate the Pats as much as anybody but the Tuck Rule game was twelve years ago. They caught a lot of breaks back then, some undeserved. But they've had a lot of calls go against them since - in addition to the three I mentioned, note the lack of a holding flag on the Tyree helmet catch.

ONLY a Pats* fan would say that they had their share of calls against them.!!!!!!!!!

[IlluminatusUIUC]

ONLY a Pats* fan would say that they had their share of calls against them.!!!!!!!!!

I just gave you four! Two that impacted Super Bowls. Here's two more: Bernard Pollard smashing Brady's knee was a clear violation of the Kimo von Oelhoffen rule, and it wasn't flagged. That might be the only thing that kept them out of the 2008-09 Super Bowl. Join Pmoon6 in claiming the game is rigged, if you must.

[WagonCircler]

The ball was deemed uncatchable and because it was thrown short and Gronk didn't do a good enough job trying to come back for it it stuck.

Even if that's granted as a given, that's a holding call all day. But that ball wasn't "uncatchable" enough to merit a non-call.

There's no way that's a non-penalty.

[Meathead]

chuck the featers

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Even if that's granted as a given, that's a holding call all day. But that ball wasn't "uncatchable" enough to merit a non-call.

There's no way that's a non-penalty.

You can't call defensive holding when the ball is in the air.

[pmoon6]

You can't call defensive holding when the ball is in the air.What? It's called all the time.

[don137]

Even if that's granted as a given, that's a holding call all day. But that ball wasn't "uncatchable" enough to merit a non-call.

There's no way that's a non-penalty.

PRt of the reason the refs deemed it non-catchable was because Gronk did not make an attempt to catch it.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What? It's called all the time.

It's called based on holding before the QB throws the ball. Once he throws it, you can't call DH.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2013/11/19/5121100/rules-breaking-down-the-final-play

DEFENSIVE HOLDING
Defensive Holding. It is defensive holding if a player grasps an eligible offensive player (or his jersey) with his hands, or extends an arm or arms to cut off or encircle him.

Fits the fill, right? In every way, shape, and form?
Rule 8, Section 4, Article 7, however rains on the parade:
End of Restrictions.

If the quarterback or the receiver of the snap demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball (i.e., hands off or pitches the ball to another player, throws a forward or backward pass, loses possession of the ball by a muff that touches the ground or a fumble, or if he is tackled) the restrictions on the defensive team prohibiting illegal contact, an illegal cut block, or defensive holding against an offensive receiver will end.

Kuekly clearly didn't engage Gronk until the ball was in the air, so that's out.

[pmoon6]

I just gave you four! Two that impacted Super Bowls. Here's two more: Bernard Pollard smashing Brady's knee was a clear violation of the Kimo von Oelhoffen rule, and it wasn't flagged. That might be the only thing that kept them out of the 2008-09 Super Bowl. Join Pmoon6 in claiming the game is rigged, if you must.Yeah, I guess KC receiving a penalty on almost every incompleted Manning pass and then when the Denver LT grabs the head of the KC pass rusher so he doesn't give Peyton a boo boo is on the level.

You're fooling yourself.

I guess as long as your team wins it's OK. I, on the other hand, would chose not to win that way.

[pmoon6]

It's called based on holding before the QB throws the ball. Once he throws it, you can't call DH.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2013/11/19/5121100/rules-breaking-down-the-final-play


Kuekly clearly didn't engage Gronk until the ball was in the air, so that's out.Makes me wonder then how the officials called it in three separate games last Sunday...and the ball was in the air.

Must not know the rule book as well as you.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Yeah, I guess KC receiving a penalty on almost every incompleted Manning pass and then when the Denver LT grabs the head of the KC pass rusher so he doesn't give Peyton a boo boo is on the level.

You're fooling yourself.

Remember, you're the one who supposedly takes losses like a man and lectures all the young punk kids about whining.

But it's never KC's fault for losing, its the refs fault. I mean, they flagged Denver 4 more times for 30 more yards and gave KC more 1st downs from penalties.


I guess as long as your team wins it's OK. I, on the other hand, would chose not to win that way.

"My team" didn't win, my team wasn't playing last night or Sunday night for that matter.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Makes me wonder then how the officials called it in three separate games last Sunday...and the ball was in the air.

Must not know the rule book as well as you.

I just quoted from the rulebook, guy. It's right there in black and white. Show me an example of the guy initiating the "hold" after the ball was thrown.

[pmoon6]

Remember, you're the one who supposedly takes losses like a man and lectures all the young punk kids about whining.

But it's never KC's fault for losing, its the refs fault. I mean, they flagged Denver 4 more times for 30 more yards and gave KC more 1st downs from penalties.



"My team" didn't win, my team wasn't playing last night or Sunday night for that matter.HahaHa. Yeah I'm whining. Too bad I'm just calling a spade a spade. Whine has nothing to do with it. I didn't give a rat's ass who won in Denver, but you can't help seeing what you see.

Then again, if you want to make this personal, we can.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

HahaHa. Yeah I'm whining.

Yes, you are. Should I quote your bit about the integrity of the game from earlier in this very thread?


I didn't give a rat's ass who won in Denver, but you can't help seeing what you see.

Even if what you see didn't, you know, actually happen. You complain about the refs every time Manning wins a primetime game, remember the Baltimore opener? We went through all of this then. Manning threw 7 TDs and beat Baltimore by 22 points and you still found a way to blame the refs.


Then again, if you want to make this personal, we can.

You seem to forget that you make it personal all the damn time. Play the victim card a little more, please.

[better days]

I just gave you four! Two that impacted Super Bowls. Here's two more: Bernard Pollard smashing Brady's knee was a clear violation of the Kimo von Oelhoffen rule, and it wasn't flagged. That might be the only thing that kept them out of the 2008-09 Super Bowl. Join Pmoon6 in claiming the game is rigged, if you must.

ONLY a Pats* fan would try to defend them as you have tried.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

ONLY a Pats* fan would try to defend them as you have tried.

Defend them from what? I'm just pointing out huge calls that have gone against them in extremely meaningful games. The Tuck Rule was 12 years ago. The Pats have since lost two titles on judgment calls against since.

[Meathead]

its just like you to love cheaters

[MikeInRoch]

2011 super bowl safety?

Was *completely* the correct call.


Bernard Pollard smashing Brady's knee was a clear violation of the Kimo von Oelhoffen rule, and it wasn't flagged. That might be the only thing that kept them out of the 2008-09 Super Bowl.

a) Wow, THAT is a stretch - just assuming the only way they don't make the Super Bowl is Brady's injury. There were other teams that year, ya know.

b) So if a flag had been thrown, then what? They would have made the Super Bowl? Getting that call or not was completely irrelevant.

[better days]

Defend them from what? I'm just pointing out huge calls that have gone against them in extremely meaningful games. The Tuck Rule was 12 years ago. The Pats have since lost two titles on judgment calls against since.

Just pointing out. LOL

So how many more posts do we have to read you defend the Pats* in?

Why not just go back to your Pats* board, I'm sure they miss you.

[SquishDaFish]

I am surprised they just did not "give it to him". See 1998 and Shawn Jefferson.

Thats the one call I will always remember. And something I brought up to my ****ty Pats friends today. I remember that clear as day player catches the ball out of bounds and you hear the ref plain as day say it to the other ref "Just Give it to them" **** the Wastriots. Karma is a *****

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Didn't he got flagged in similar situation at buffalo? From my seat, that play can go either way. But if the Brady pass is anywhere near Gronkowski or Gronkowski showing attempt to come back for the ball, there should be no doubt of a penalty. The Panthers got away with one.

16707

Awww, you mean the Patriots* got jobbed by the refs? Well here's my take

1) That ref is gone by the end of the year
2) Why are we *****ing that the Refs didn't rule in favor of the pats?

- - - Updated - - -


Well, I can tell when someone's run out of ideas.

Look, I hate the Pats as much as anybody but the Tuck Rule game was twelve years ago. They caught a lot of breaks back then, some undeserved. But they've had a lot of calls go against them since - in addition to the three I mentioned, note the lack of a holding flag on the Tyree helmet catch.

and you have a problem with this because. . . ?

[better days]

Awww, you mean the Patriots* got jobbed by the refs? Well here's my take

1) That ref is gone by the end of the year
2) Why are we *****ing that the Refs didn't rule in favor of the pats?

- - - Updated - - -



and you have a problem with this because. . . ?

Because he is a Pats* fan. The ONLY explanation possible.

[pmoon6]

Yes, you are. Should I quote your bit about the integrity of the game from earlier in this very thread?



Even if what you see didn't, you know, actually happen. You complain about the refs every time Manning wins a primetime game, remember the Baltimore opener? We went through all of this then. Manning threw 7 TDs and beat Baltimore by 22 points and you still found a way to blame the refs.



You seem to forget that you make it personal all the damn time. Play the victim card a little more, please.HaHaHa, you da man.

[BertSquirtgum]

Well, I can tell when someone's run out of ideas.

Look, I hate the Pats as much as anybody but the Tuck Rule game was twelve years ago. They caught a lot of breaks back then, some undeserved. But they've had a lot of calls go against them since - in addition to the three I mentioned, note the lack of a holding flag on the Tyree helmet catch.

Do you dream about Tom Brady too?

[Fixxxer]

I see no contact between Kuechly and Gronk.......

[Mouldsie]

A poor call against a team that almost always gets a break and it couldn't have happened to a classier HC. I'll sleep ok

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Was *completely* the correct call.

It was and remains the only time I've ever seen intentional grounding called on a pass that landed between the hash marks.

That said, it was the correct call under the rules just as the tuck rule was. And it went against the Pats, so apparently it doesn't count while the Tuck Rule was a travesty of justice.


a) Wow, THAT is a stretch - just assuming the only way they don't make the Super Bowl is Brady's injury. There were other teams that year, ya know.

The Pats returned almost every player from a team that was 2 minutes from a perfect season, and the AFC was weak that year. The #1 seed was quarterbacked by Kerry Collins. The eventual champion Pittsburgh had the 20th ranked offense, and had been mudstomped by 3 touchdowns the previous season when they played Brady. That team was good enough to win 11 games and lose a playoff spot on tiebreakers with 15 starts by Matt Cassel. With Brady in his prime they would have favored in every single game.


b) So if a flag had been thrown, then what? They would have made the Super Bowl? Getting that call or not was completely irrelevant.

Better days likes to point out when the Patriots have cheated, such as Wilfork wrecking Losman's leg and the ever-present asterisk. So I pointed out when the Patriots suffered a reversal of that cheating and it cost them a legitimate title shot.

[better days]

It was and remains the only time I've ever seen intentional grounding called on a pass that landed between the hash marks.

That said, it was the correct call under the rules just as the tuck rule was. And it went against the Pats, so apparently it doesn't count while the Tuck Rule was a travesty of justice.



The Pats returned almost every player from a team that was 2 minutes from a perfect season, and the AFC was weak that year. The #1 seed was quarterbacked by Kerry Collins. The eventual champion Pittsburgh had the 20th ranked offense, and had been mudstomped by 3 touchdowns the previous season when they played Brady. That team was good enough to win 11 games and lose a playoff spot on tiebreakers with 15 starts by Matt Cassel. With Brady in his prime they would have favored in every single game.



Better days likes to point out when the Patriots have cheated, such as Wilfork wrecking Losman's leg and the ever-present asterisk. So I pointed out when the Patriots suffered a reversal of that cheating and it cost them a legitimate title shot.

WE don't need to hear any Pats* BS, Pats* FAN.

[don137]

http://captaincomeback.wordpress.com/2013/11/19/patriots-should-know-pass-interference-well/

Not the first time this happened involving Patriots. No Patriot fans complained when the shoe was on other foot

[IlluminatusUIUC]

WE don't need to hear any Pats* BS, Pats* FAN.

It's like talking to an 8 year old with you.

[Meathead]

why do you hate our freedom

[GingerP]

It's the same Brady but the results are different because he doesn't have the athleticism on the other side. And Brady won't deviate from what he's always done.

He has definitely had a down year so far, but he was great last night. The Pats had 28 first downs and 390 yards against the top-ranked defense in the NFL, and they did it in only 7 drives. The shortest drive they had was 8 plays. Playing on the road against one of the hottest teams in the NFL and they came close to winning the game (imagine if Ridley hadn't fumbled). That was great QB play, he was masterful. Now that he is getting guys like Gronk, Amendola and Vareen back he looks like his old self.

Of course, their defense is falling apart with them losing key players each week, so he will have to be great if they want to win.

[BertSquirtgum]

http://notsportscenter.com/mnfrefsfired/ (http://notsportscenter.com/mnfrefsfired/)

Pretty funny.

[better days]

It's like talking to an 8 year old with you.

Speaking of the Pats* CHEATING, let's not forget their latest endeavor in that area.

The Pats* were CAUGHT CHEATING on FG attempts this season after the Jets alerted the refs to it.

[DynaPaul]

The call should have been defensive holding but who cares? It's the Patriots and I can't see how any Bills fan on this board in their right mind would defend anything from that franchise. Not too mention that they had a lot of questionable calls go their way earlier in the game.

[k-oneputt]

If you want to make some cash take the Pats this Sunday. They will get every call this week.

[Goobylal]

They made the right call not calling anything. End of story.

[better days]

The call should have been defensive holding but who cares? It's the Patriots and I can't see how any Bills fan on this board in their right mind would defend anything from that franchise. Not too mention that they had a lot of questionable calls go their way earlier in the game.

Nope. Once the ball is in the air, defensive holding can't be called.

It is interference or nothing. And since the ball was uncatchable by Gronk, there was no interference.

If the ball had hit Kuechly, or come anywhere near Gronk it would have been interference. But since it was intercepted in the front end of the endzone while Gronk was in the back end, it was NOT interference.

[feldspar]

The subtle difference that I can recall was Stevie was on his way to where the ball was thrown to while being grabbed by Kuechly and here, on video's slow mo, you can clearly see Gronk's momentum was taking him towards the back of end zone and Brady's ball was under thrown (Gronk would have to catch the ball very close to turf), giving the ref an excuse of the ball was going to be intercepted regardless what Kuechly was doing.

I agree with this.

I don't think it was pass interference. That ball would have been intercepted no matter WHAT Kuechly did or did not do, in my opinion. To me, that part of it is pretty clear. That said, a defensive holding call probably should have been in order. Cry me a river, though. I enjoyed the end of that game immensely.

[trapezeus]

at the end of the day, a penalty probably should have been called. i've seen the pats get the flag for much less. but they didn't and they have 12-13 years of being the chosen team, even when there is ample evidence that something is still not right.

some of the greatest coaches of all time (parcells, landry, lombardi), they experienced down seasons when their teams were decimated. but not the pats. this year should be the most telling sign that something isn't right. they're receiving core is gutted, the ol is average, their run game is average. the defense is a shell of the talent it once had a long time ago and receiving injuries regularly. Yet they remain in the top 10 of teams.

that should be outrageous to everyone. so if they got one ****ty call, **** them. they still will be in the playoffs. they will still be in championship game talk.

all the people who defend the pats will be the ones who are the most surprised that anything could possibly be wrong when the story eventually breaks.

[MikeInRoch]

It was and remains the only time I've ever seen intentional grounding called on a pass that landed between the hash marks.

That said, it was the correct call under the rules just as the tuck rule was. And it went against the Pats, so apparently it doesn't count while the Tuck Rule was a travesty of justice.

That's also the first time I've seen a QB overthrow all his receivers by 30 yards deliberately. It's not just correct under the rules, it's completely within the spirit of the rules, and if a QB does it again, I'd be shocked to not see a flag.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That's also the first time I've seen a QB overthrow all his receivers by 30 yards deliberately. It's not just correct under the rules, it's completely within the spirit of the rules, and if a QB does it again, I'd be shocked to not see a flag.

When I've seen overthrows that passed over wideout's heads in the field of play, I generally see them getting the benefit of the doubt that a wideout ran the wrong route or that he just made a bad throw. Look at this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3n1axf8rMs

Nicks is at the Giants 40, the ball is intercepted at the Chiefs 40 - a 20 yard miss.

In the Super Bowl, Gronk was on the 25 the ball landed at the 45 - a 20 yard miss. (There was another wideout deeper but I can't read his number on the video)

While obviously the grounding wouldn't have mattered in the later game because of Demps' INT, but the refs never threw the flag in the first place.

[MikeInRoch]

That example doesn't help because of the interception, as you pointed out. They frequently (and, indeed, this happened in the SB) throw the flag well after the play. I don't think I've ever seen a grounding penalty get called after an interception.

Also, the QB in this play was not under duress. It's only grounding if the QB is about to get sacked. That was the case in the SB, not here.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That example doesn't help because of the interception, as you pointed out. They frequently (and, indeed, this happened in the SB) throw the flag well after the play. I don't think I've ever seen a grounding penalty get called after an interception.

Right, because the refs acknowledge that even though the call would be correct under the rule, they swallow the whistle. There are situations where the penalty would be superior to the turnover.

Which is the point I am driving at, a lot times refs will make judgment calls on plays that are technically violations. In recent years, plenty of those have come at the Pats' expense.


Also, the QB in this play was not under duress. It's only grounding if the QB is about to get sacked. That was the case in the SB, not here.

He was under pressure, they flushed him forward from his pocket and Bailey (#97) had shed his block and was coming at him.

If they wanted to call him for IG, they easily could have.

[better days]

Well, I can tell when someone's run out of ideas.

Look, I hate the Pats as much as anybody but the Tuck Rule game was twelve years ago. They caught a lot of breaks back then, some undeserved. But they've had a lot of calls go against them since - in addition to the three I mentioned, note the lack of a holding flag on the Tyree helmet catch.

Look, for somebody that hates the Pats* as much as ANYBODY, you have WASTED a lot of time & energy on this board TRYING to defend them.

I don't believe you hate the Pats* at all, in fact just the opposite, I believe you are in fact a Pats* FAN.

All your protestations are falling on deaf ears on this board & would on any board EXCEPT a Pats* board.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Look, for somebody that hates the Pats* as much as ANYBODY, you have WASTED a lot of time & energy on this board TRYING to defend them.

I don't believe you hate the Pats* at all, in fact just the opposite, I believe you are in fact a Pats* FAN.

All your protestations are falling on deaf ears on this board & would on any board EXCEPT a Pats* board.

I don't think you know what the word "defend" means.

[better days]

I don't think you know what the word "defend" means.

I don't think you know what the word defend means.

Although you have done a piss poor job of it, that is EXACTLY what you have TRIED to do.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I don't think you know what the word defend means.

Although you have done a piss poor job of it, that is EXACTLY what you have TRIED to do.

"I know you are but what am I?" The 8 year old routine continues.

Every single time the Pats have had a high profile call go against them in the last few years, the Bills boards start all this whining about the refs. I will agree they had a lot of calls go in their favor earlier in the last decade, but it's 2013 now. They've had calls go against them since. Many that were much more questionable and in much bigger situations than this one in Carolina.

I mean, pmoon is even using this call as evidence that the league is done with the Patriots and wants to prop up Cam Newton

[trapezeus]

i doubt that the nfl will kill a fickle boston fan base to pimp out one player. the calls will continue to aggregate in favor of the pats. it is the cash cow of the NFL. Revenues sky rocketed once they protected the pats. now all those new college kids in boston who want to fit in buy a jersey, go to the game and like their brethren tell everyone they were with the team since the very beginning.

other towns build a fanbase because the people actually like the game.

Boston doesn't get football and only have learned because they are winning. watch gillette empty out after 2 really poor, they had no chance by october seasons. Watch how none of them travel looking to start fights everywhere they go.

[better days]

"I know you are but what am I?" The 8 year old routine continues.

Every single time the Pats have had a high profile call go against them in the last few years, the Bills boards start all this whining about the refs. I will agree they had a lot of calls go in their favor earlier in the last decade, but it's 2013 now. They've had calls go against them since. Many that were much more questionable and in much bigger situations than this one in Carolina.

I mean, pmoon is even using this call as evidence that the league is done with the Patriots and wants to prop up Cam Newton

The answer to the bolded is you are without question a Pats* fan.

[better days]

I don't think you know what the word "defend" means.

I was just on a Jets board because I wanted to see what their thoughts were about the Bills-Jets game.

There was a thread on that board about the last play of the Pats* Panthers game.

There was one guy who defended the Pats* on that board. His posts were much like yours.

The only difference was, that he ADMITTED to being a Pats* fan.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I was just on a Jets board because I wanted to see what their thoughts were about the Bills-Jets game.

There was a thread on that board about the last play of the Pats* Panthers game.

There was one guy who defended the Pats* on that board. His posts were much like yours.

The only difference was, that he ADMITTED to being a Pats* fan.

Hmmm, very interesting, where the hell is Andrey Vyshinsky when you need him?

[MikeInRoch]

Right, because the refs acknowledge that even though the call would be correct under the rule, they swallow the whistle. There are situations where the penalty would be superior to the turnover.

Doesn't that pretty much make your comparison BS, tho?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Doesn't that pretty much make your comparison BS, tho?

Uh, no, its the heart of the comparison. The same play called two different ways, but the Pats got the short end of it.

[pmoon6]

I mean, pmoon is even using this call as evidence that the league is done with the Patriots and wants to prop up Cam NewtonHmmmm. Well, if an innocuous message board isn't the place for ridiculous theories and half baked ideas then maybe the staff needs to ban 3/4's of it's posters.

Of course, you being the shining example of intelligence and reasoned repartee, we all submit to your opinion. I'm still waiting for your football book to come out because there are so many things I still don't understand about the game and I'm in too much of a rush to plod through all your posts here. Do hurry, I don't have that much time left.

[pmoon6]

Right, because the refs acknowledge that even though the call would be correct under the rule, they swallow the whistle.It's too bad a lot more referees don't swallow their whistle. May make room for the possibility of hiring people that are competent at their job.

[better days]

Panthers DE Charles Johnson is expected to miss at least the Fins game after suffering an MCL injury from being ILLEGALLY leg whipped by Pats* OT Marcus Cannon.

There was NO PENALTY flag thrown on the play in question.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Hmmmm. Well, if an innocuous message board isn't the place for ridiculous theories and half baked ideas then maybe the staff needs to ban 3/4's of it's posters.

Of course, you being the shining example of intelligence and reasoned repartee, we all submit to your opinion. I'm still waiting for your football book to come out because there are so many things I still don't understand about the game and I'm in too much of a rush to plod through all your posts here. Do hurry, I don't have that much time left.

It goes to show that the worm has turned enough that you were speculating that the league has stopped favoring the Pats.

I am really curious to see how this thread would have gone if the Pats had gotten the game-losing INT overturned on a penalty in the endzone, and then won.

[pmoon6]

It goes to show that the worm has turned enough that you were speculating that the league has stopped favoring the Pats.

I am really curious to see how this thread would have gone if the Pats had gotten the game-losing INT overturned on a penalty in the endzone, and then won.It would have been bedlam. Your monitor would have been oozing tears, blood and spittle. If you had smellovision, you would have been able to get the stench of **** and urine. Everyone's bodily functions would have went haywire.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It would have been bedlam. Your monitor would have been oozing tears, blood and spittle. If you had smellovision, you would have been able to get the stench of **** and urine. Everyone's bodily functions would have went haywire.

Not gonna lie. That was my reaction to the Pittsburgh game.

[pmoon6]

Not gonna lie. That was my reaction to the Pittsburgh game.Well, you do live in California now. The piss and **** stained jeans were probably considered cool and "out there".:D

[better days]

It goes to show that the worm has turned enough that you were speculating that the league has stopped favoring the Pats.

I am really curious to see how this thread would have gone if the Pats had gotten the game-losing INT overturned on a penalty in the endzone, and then won.

The non call was CORRECT there was NO WAY Gronk was going to get by Kuechly to catch a ball that was 8 yds in front of him with another Panther there to make the int as well.

That ball was uncatchable by Gronk.

And the Pats* were given a gift of a non call of the leg whip on Charles Johnson.

That is the non call that was WRONG.

[MikeInRoch]

Uh, no, its the heart of the comparison. The same play called two different ways, but the Pats got the short end of it.

You aren't making any sense. You claim that in the second play they likely would have swallowed the whistle *because* the turnover was a better result anyway. If you wanted to make a valid comparison, they should have thrown the flag on the second play as well.

Additionally, it's not "the same play", as I pointed out earlier. The QB was not in imminent danger in the second.

[feldspar]

I've just about had it with all these people crying into their sleeves about this "non-call." If you think that was a penalty, then I should inform you that the EXACT same thing happened IN FAVOR of the Patriots THIS YEAR. It evens out for the Patriots in the worst-case scenario, really.

Check it out what happened week 6 against the Saints. As time was expiring, Nate Solder BLATANTLY holds Junior Galette. This should have been a 10-yard penalty, putting the Patriots on the Saints 27-yardline, down by 4 points with about 5 seconds left on the clock. Instead, the Patriots score a TD on the play and win. The hold is not open to interpretation. It WAS a hold, and it wasn't called.

Check out the lower left-hand corner of this .gif:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/assets/3384441/SaintsPatriotsHolding_medium.gif

Again, the Patriots should have had the ball on the Saints 27-yardline, needing a TD with one last desperation play. That's not a high-percentage proposition, to say the least.

But in the Panthers game, there is no way in hell Gronk was catching that ball no matter what Luke Kuechly did or didn't do, in my opinion. Even if that's called a hold or interference, that doesn't guarantee the Patriots will score on the final play and win.

If Kuechly gets called, he's actually doing the Patriots a favor for that last-ditch opportunity. They very well may have lost the game anyway. Meanwhile, the no-call in the Saints game actually put points on the board for the Patriots that made the difference in the game. In other words, the Saints no-call was WORSE. So nobody has a right ***** and moan about the controvery against the Panthers.

[Novacane]

Wow. I hadn't seen that. What a blatant hold. So even if the wrong call was made against Carolina things even out. The refs gave them the saints game and took away the Carolina game.

[Novacane]

Saints should be the ones *****ing. If those two calls were made they'd be 3 games ahead of the Panthers instead of 1.

[MikeInRoch]

Well the garbage "blow to the neck" call that essentially gave them the win against the 49ers helped make up for it.

[stuckincincy]

Well the garbage "blow to the neck" call that essentially gave them the win against the 49ers helped make up for it.

Yep. But IMO, DEN and NO have already been selected for the SB.

[better days]

Yep. But IMO, DEN and NO have already been selected for the SB.

Denver looks likely in the AFC, but I think Seattle goes for the NFC.

[Mr. Pink]

It was just as much pass interference as what Kuechly did to Stevie Johnson.

[MikeInRoch]

New England doesn't get calls? They ran a blatant pick in the second half for a huge play. No call. The Broncos do the same thing in OT? It's a penalty.

[coastal]

New England doesn't get calls? They ran a blatant pick in the second half for a huge play. No call. The Broncos do the same thing in OT? It's a penalty.
There was a handful of calls that were made in the second half that were just absolutely head scratchers.

[k-oneputt]

There was a handful of calls that were made in the second half that were just absolutely head scratchers. And this surprises you ?

[GingerP]

1. I think his legacy is set.
2. Welker made him look much better than he was.

His throws to Amendola are so low he can only catch it and fall to the ground. Then he checks to Vereen a bunch but he can't get and YAC. It's the same Brady but the results are different because he doesn't have the athleticism on the other side. And Brady won't deviate from what he's always done.

I can't wait to play them Week 17.

Brady is like a zombie, you just can't kill the guy. I wouldn't be wishing to play him, he is starting to heat up. Over his last 3 games he is 86-for-123 (70%), 1,072 yards (8.7 YPA), 8 TD, 1 Int, 144.8 QB Rating... and 2 of those 3 games were against really good teams. Dude is scary good.

[better days]

The Pats* won that game because of the officials. And Brady did not look good at all. His passes no longer have any zip. Wobbly dead ducks in the air.

Brady will no doubt hang on another year or two, but he is on a downside of his career, about to bottom out.

[pmoon6]

Brady is like a zombie, you just can't kill the guy. I wouldn't be wishing to play him, he is starting to heat up. Over his last 3 games he is 86-for-123 (70%), 1,072 yards (8.7 YPA), 8 TD, 1 Int, 144.8 QB Rating... and 2 of those 3 games were against really good teams. Dude is scary good.Oh, Brady can be killed. You just have to get past his five bodyguards that hold all day and the invisible forcefield that renders him immune from being hit. It wears stripes.

[GingerP]

The Pats* won that game because of the officials. And Brady did not look good at all. His passes no longer have any zip. Wobbly dead ducks in the air.

Brady will no doubt hang on another year or two, but he is on a downside of his career, about to bottom out.

You are completely delusional if you think he did not look good. I'm not even sure what to say, you've lost all touch with reality.

I agree he is on the downside, though, the guy is reaching his late 30's. He can't play forever. Right now, he is playing at a really high level, though. I don't care what team you follow, I can recognize a guy who can play, and he can still play.

[better days]

You are completely delusional if you think he did not look good. I'm not even sure what to say, you've lost all touch with reality.

I agree he is on the downside, though, the guy is reaching his late 30's. He can't play forever. Right now, he is playing at a really high level, though. I don't care what team you follow, I can recognize a guy who can play, and he can still play.

Did you watch the game? Or did you just look at stats on a computer?

Yes, he is still accurate on SHORT throws, but he can no longer throw downfield.

Brady does not throw a tight spiral any longer. His balls wobble like dead ducks in the air.

Against the Panthers he could not get the ball to the back of the end zone where Gronk was standing from just outside the red zone.

[pmoon6]

Did you watch the game? Or did you just look at stats on a computer?

Yes, he is still accurate on SHORT throws, but he can no longer throw downfield.

Brady does not throw a tight spiral any longer. His balls wobble like dead ducks in the air.

Against the Panthers he could not get the ball to the back of the end zone where Gronk was standing from just outside the red zone.I'm no Brady fan, but yesterday you have to consider the wind.

[GingerP]

Brady does not throw a tight spiral any longer. His balls wobble like dead ducks in the air.

Your posts have officially lost touch with any notion of reality. If you want to say his deep throws are suspect, you may have something, but he drives the short-to-intermediate throws as well as anyone in the NFL.

I'm not arguing with a crazy person, though. You are going to see what you want to see.

[better days]

I'm no Brady fan, but yesterday you have to consider the wind.

Yes you have to consider the wind.

Just like when the Bills played the Jets.

EJ threw bullets into the wind.

Brady throws paper airplanes.

[better days]

Your posts have officially lost touch with any notion of reality. If you want to say his deep throws are suspect, you may have something, but he drives the short-to-intermediate throws as well as anyone in the NFL.

I'm not arguing with a crazy person, though. You are going to see what you want to see.

Did you watch the game? Yes or NO? If you watched Brady yesterday, you would have to be BLIND to say he still throws a good ball.

He is still accurate on short to short/intermediate throws when given time, but even on those throws he does not throw a tight spiral.

[GingerP]

Did you watch the game? Yes or NO? If you watched Brady yesterday, you would have to be BLIND to say he still throws a good ball.

He is still accurate on short to short/intermediate throws when given time, but even on those throws he does not throw a tight spiral.

Yes, I watched the game. I saw a guy effectively driving the ball through a driving wind. He completed 68% of his passes into 30-40 MPH winds. Their 3 3rd quarter TD's were all into the wind. He throws as tight a spiral as anyone in the NFL. He drives his throws. His arm is still middle-of-the-NFL to better.

[better days]

Yes, I watched the game. I saw a guy effectively driving the ball through a driving wind. He completed 68% of his passes into 30-40 MPH winds. Their 3 3rd quarter TD's were all into the wind. He throws as tight a spiral as anyone in the NFL. He drives his throws. His arm is still middle-of-the-NFL to better.

And you are calling me crazy?

You are the CRAZY person.

And Brady would not have the stats he does without help from the officials not calling holding.

[GingerP]

And you are calling me crazy?

You are the CRAZY person.

And Brady would not have the stats he does without help from the officials not calling holding.

LOL. I wish I could imbed a coo-coo noise into this post. It is funny that Brady has beat the Bills so bad over the years that you have been driven over the edge.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The Pats* won that game because of the officials.

The Broncos had a 24 point half time lead, got a historic rushing performance from their former first round bust halfback, had the ball to start overtime, and lost anyway.

And you want to blame the refs. Unreal.

[better days]

The Broncos had a 24 point half time lead, got a historic rushing performance from their former first round bust halfback, had the ball to start overtime, and lost anyway.

And you want to blame the refs. Unreal.

And you being a Pats* fan think the Pats* should have all calls & non calls go in their favor.

But without question the Officials FAVORED the Pats* in yesterdays game & Chris Collingsworth even said so in the broadcast.

[Mr. Pink]

And you being a Pats* fan think the Pats* should have all calls & non calls go in their favor.

But without question the Officials FAVORED the Pats* in yesterdays game & Chris Collingsworth even said so in the broadcast.

Quentin Jammer committed 2 pass interference penalties in OT and neither were called.

Even if you want to claim the refs favored the Pats earlier in the game, it evens out over the course of a game.

[better days]

Quentin Jammer committed 2 pass interference penalties in OT and neither were called.

Even if you want to claim the refs favored the Pats earlier in the game, it evens out over the course of a game.

NO it does not. Pats* are called for penalties when nothing is on the line.

The calls go in their favor when EVERYTHING is on the line.

Like I said, Chris Collingsworth commented on the Pats* being favored by the Officials & it is RARE for a broadcast announcer to say anything that would make officials look anything but impartial so for Chris to say that, it shows how bad the officiating was.

[MikeInRoch]

If anyone else in the league acts like Brady did (running down the field to scream at an official), he gets 15 yards. But not the "holy one".

[gebobs]

If anyone else in the league acts like Brady did (running down the field to scream at an official), he gets 15 yards. But not the "holy one".

It worked. The refs knew if they dropped the flag on Gronk last night when he flagrantly committed offensive PI, Brady would throw a fit.

Keep those hankies in, boys. No one wants to see that.