Jairus Byrd "open-minded" to re-signing with Bills

[justasportsfan]

Yes. Another Byrd Thread,



“Of course, absolutely, open minded, absolutely. Definitely,” said Byrd. “I’m not going to close my mind on anything. I’m open to whatever might come. I’m leaving that to my agent and those guys. I’m out of it. I’m just going to play the best football I can for the team and try to win games and then that stuff will get handled eventually.”



“I’ve always said all along I want to be where I’m wanted and if it’s here then great,” Byrd said. “I am definitely excited just to win games. I’ve been here for four years so my heart is definitely here and wanting to win here and finish what you start.”

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Jairus-Byrd-open-minded-to-re-signing-with-Bills/61c86b5b-62a3-4318-8a77-fec0ca20fef4


By open minded I think he means he'd open to getting paid no.1 or open to being paid more than no.1 ?

[Skooby]

I'd be open minded to making $9 M a year as well.

[Pinkerton Security]

"I’m leaving that to my agent and those guys. I’m out of it."

This to me says "whoever pays me the most money is going to win".

[Forward_Lateral]

He's shown that he's worth the money, regardless of how big of a baby he was at the start of the season. The D has been totally different with him in there, nobody can argue with that.

[GvilleBills]

Pay the man, we are on the cusp of a dominant defense. We won't get there creating holes.
The best cap flexibility is while your QB is in the rookie contract, get it done now.

[better days]

Of course he wants to be paid. But hopefully he will accept a reasonable offer.

I do think he will want to stay in Buffalo if he gets paid.

[DraftBoy]

Of course he wants to be paid. But hopefully he will accept a reasonable offer.

I do think he will want to stay in Buffalo if he gets paid.

A reasonable offer is #1 money.

[trapezeus]

"i need the bills offer to help leverage a better deal elsewhere"

[Ed]

Is he open to being tagged again?

[JoeMama]

"I’m leaving that to my agent and those guys. I’m out of it."

This to me says "whoever pays me the most money is going to win".

I'd go to the highest bidder too.

An NFL career is a tenuous, finite thing. You gotta get paid while you can.

[Pinkerton Security]

I'd go to the highest bidder too.

An NFL career is a tenuous, finite thing. You gotta get paid while you can.

I guess. Im just bitter because of the way he handled the whole situation. He's going to get paid no matter what, so why be such a b**** about it and sit out?

[better days]

A reasonable offer is #1 money.

Probably so, but there is a lot of leeway in that figure.

WGR has a poll should the Bills pay Byrd #1 money to keep him?

I voted yes along with about 70% of the people voting.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Just pay the man.

[imbondz]

He pissed me off during training camp. But I forgive him. Pay the man!

[stuckincincy]

Just pay the man.

Raise ticket prices?

[alnilla]

Raise ticket prices?


More then likely getting raised anyway next year so who cares if it makes us better

[better days]

More then likely getting raised anyway next year so who cares if it makes us better

No price increase will amount to more than a hill of beans compared to the increase that comes with a new stadium.

[stuckincincy]

No price increase will amount to more than a hill of beans compared to the increase that comes with a new stadium.

A new stadium should be built with private $, with PSL and steep tix/concession/parking rises. No more sticking it to folks who don't give a rat's fanny about the NFL, please.

[Buffalogic]

He's a great safety and doesn't get in trouble off the field. No brainer pay him.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Raise ticket prices?

Player salaries are covered by the Bills' share of the TV contract.


A new stadium should be built with private $, with PSL and steep tix/concession/parking rises. No more sticking it to folks who don't give a rat's fanny about the NFL, please.

I agree, but that's why I don't think it will be in Buffalo sadly.

[better days]

A new stadium should be built with private $, with PSL and steep tix/concession/parking rises. No more sticking it to folks who don't give a rat's fanny about the NFL, please.

What is your problem? Did the Bengals stick it to you?

[stuckincincy]

What is your problem? Did the Bengals stick it to you?

Of course they did. Same as any other town that builds a free place of business for a show biz outfit. I wish the B'gals would dry up and blow away. Your problem is thinking that other people should have their wallets fleeced so you or I can have football yucks.

[BertSquirtgum]

They better use the tag again if they can't get him to sign before free agency. They have no one else to use it on. Why lose him for nothing? If they tag him, they can trade him.

[ublinkwescore]

Quick, someone make a meme with Lloyd Christmas from dumb and dumber and caption as ”so you're saying there is a CHANCE!!!”

[jamze132]

The Bills are far enough under the cap that signing Byrd to anchor our defense for the next 5-6 years isn't going to seriously hurt us. I would also front-load that contract so on his 4-6 years, he isn't getting paid $15M per.

[YardRat]

If he finishes the year strong, I'd be willing to reverse my current stance and get on board to pay him top money.

I'll steal from Illuminati's thread on Spiller...these next five games will determine how much he is worth re-signing. At worst, it's top 5 $ anyway. This is his opportunity to prove he's elite.

[Historian]

I think the Bills need to start keeping their high draft picks and playmakers.

This seems to be a much better team, and the defense seemeds poised to compete for a title.

Keep the D in tact, and work on the offense.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If he finishes the year strong, I'd be willing to reverse my current stance and get on board to pay him top money.

I'll steal from Illuminati's thread on Spiller...these next five games will determine how much he is worth re-signing. At worst, it's top 5 $ anyway. This is his opportunity to prove he's elite.

IMO he's proved it already, moreso than Spiller.

What would you want to see from him?

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

i'm also 'open minded' to 9 mil per year...

just saying

[coastal]

"Pay that man his money" ~ Teddy KGB

[Ed]

I'm still assuming (unfortunately) that Byrd is going to be gone after this season. If they couldn't work out a deal last year after months of negotiating, what's going to be different this year? If anything, I think his agent is only going to ask for even more money since he feels Byrd was underpaid for this season. This is just Byrd saying the right things even if he has every intention of leaving. All I'm hearing from Byrd is that he'll play for whoever wants him the most, meaning whoever pays him the most. Which is fair enough, but I just don't see that being the Bills. There's no way he gives the Bills any kind of discount after being tagged. The Bills already have the highest paid defensive player in the league. I don't see them having the highest paid safety as well. I hope he returns and I'll be pleasantly surprised if he does, but I'm definitely not expecting it.

[better days]

Of course they did. Same as any other town that builds a free place of business for a show biz outfit. I wish the B'gals would dry up and blow away. Your problem is thinking that other people should have their wallets fleeced so you or I can have football yucks.

So how much did it cost you personally for the new Bengals stadium?

Just curious as to what Bills fans can expect.

[better days]

Brandon was on WGR today. He said the Bills made Byrd a VERY AGGRESSIVE offer last year.

He said the Bills still want to sign Byrd long term.

[Bill Cody]

Part of his comments were left out earlier, I have added them back in:

“Of course, absolutely, open minded, absolutely. Definitely,” said Byrd. “I’m not going to close my mind on anything. I’m open to whatever might come. And if they don't offer me #1 money right from the jump or disrespect me by tagging me again then you can bet your ass I'm going to whine like a little ***** and start complaining about my feet hurting again cause that's just who I am".

[YardRat]

IMO he's proved it already, moreso than Spiller.

What would you want to see from him?

Definitely moreso than Spiller, by far...CJ isn't even close to Top 5.

Stats don't mean much to me, so I hope that's not an answer you're looking for. I want to see him consistently make big plays, preferably at big times, that actually help swing a game. Doesn't have to be INT's, but big stops in run support, passes defended on third down, not making incorrect reads from one-or-two deep zones that hang corners out to dry, better range from sideline to sideline against passes, some big hits, etc.

I know some are impressed by a multi-interception game, but in all honesty 'garbage' picks (end of half, up 17-0, and late third qtr up by 20) doesn't scream 'elite'.

Let's see him make a big pick or force fumble or third down stop when the score is close, or the Bills are losing by less than one score.

[Crisis]

Byrd has a body of work of 4+ years of elite play and you want to base his contract off his next 5 games?

Just pay the man already.

[Mr. Cynical]

"I’m leaving that to my agent and those guys. I’m out of it."

This to me says "whoever pays me the most money is going to win".

Yep. And while that's the business and I get it, when you combine that with all the "me-attitude" and really, lack of commitment to the team, I still say we tag and trade him. He's not irreplaceable and for $9M a year we can put it to better use imo. Flush the bad 'tudes. Don't want em, don't need em.

[pmoon6]

The post game conversation between Ed Reed and Jairus Byrd.

Byrd: How's it goin' old man?

Reed: Good, young buck, how's the contract thing goin'

Byrd: Not the way I expected, but I'll get to San Diego soon enough.

Reed: Well don't do what I did, get your dollars NOW. You don't want to draggin' your ass around the league at my age, a couple million here and a couple million there.

Byrd: Yeah, you do look old and worn out, but how can they just not pay ya for just bein'.... ED REED.

Reed: That's not the way the NFL works, Son....Good luck and say "Hi" to your Dad. I played against him as a rookie.

[YardRat]

Byrd has a body of work of 4+ years of elite play and you want to base his contract off his next 5 games?

Just pay the man already.

I wouldn't consider his first four years 'elite'.

This is an entirely new defense, and how he produced in the past is kind of irrelevant. He has the opportunity to prove he can be elite, in this defense. If he wants to be paid like a game-changer, he needs to play like one...in this defense.

I'll forgive him being a whiny little ***** if he can. The first third of the season, of course, is a non-factor because he didn't see the field. I'll give him the second third of the season to get into game shape, in this defense. The last third of the season is when we see if he truly is elite, or not.

Has the defense really been any different in the last few games than it was when Leonhard was back there?

[pmoon6]

There is a reason there are only 8 true safeties in the pro football HOF. They, more than any defensive player, benefit from the rest of the unit. If you look at all the great ones, they all had good to great front sevens. Donnie Shell, Ronnie Lott, Paul Krause, Ed Reed, Charlie Waters, Willie Wood, Troy Palomalu. They also usually had at least one very good corner. That's why I don't think a safety deserves 9 million a year.

However, players salaries have been escalating for a long time and we have the money. Byrd has a nose for the ball and we should try to keep him. Unfortunately, with his agent being a putz and his early season shenanigans he may have hurt himself with regards to negotiations. Byrd can say all he wants about wanting to play in Buffalo, that's just PR. Every potential free agent says that. It's just showing you they have loyalty to the organization that drafted them when, in reality, the agenda is clear. Maximize your market value and play where you want to play.

Fans can piss and moan about the organization if a player leaves, but you really don't know what kind of effort they put in to keep him or if he actually does still want to play in a particular city. The players hold almost all the cards.

[better days]

There is a reason there are only 8 true safeties in the pro football HOF. They, more than any defensive player, benefit from the rest of the unit. If you look at all the great ones, they all had good to great front sevens. Donnie Shell, Ronnie Lott, Paul Krause, Ed Reed, Charlie Waters, Willie Wood, Troy Palomalu. They also usually had at least one very good corner. That's why I don't think a safety deserves 9 million a year.

However, players salaries have been escalating for a long time and we have the money. Byrd has a nose for the ball and we should try to keep him. Unfortunately, with his agent being a putz and his early season shenanigans he may have hurt himself with regards to negotiations. Byrd can say all he wants about wanting to play in Buffalo, that's just PR. Every potential free agent says that. It's just showing you they have loyalty to the organization that drafted them when, in reality, the agenda is clear. Maximize your market value and play where you want to play.

Fans can piss and moan about the organization if a player leaves, but you really don't know what kind of effort they put in to keep him or if he actually does still want to play in a particular city. The players hold almost all the cards.

I think Byrd would like to stay in Buffalo, but his first priority is to get paid. I think the question is just how much does he want to be overpaid?

IMO the Bills have two options if Byrd refuses to sign with them. Tag him & keep him another year or trade him before the draft.

[YardRat]

Byrd's words are pretty similar to Levitre's last season. Show me the money.

[Jan Reimers]

The Bills' failure to pay - and thus keep - their good players is one of many reasons we are suffering through our 14th straight playoff-deprived season. It's certainly not the only reason, but it is a big contributor.

[pmoon6]

I also think another factor comes into play. A player or agent using the "We want this or we're leaving" tactic, without even a modicum of willingness to compromise constitutes an ultimatum. Employers don't react well to that tactic. Even if you're a valuable asset, most of the time they say "**** you, then". They don't like it when you try to push them around, especially owners that are worth billions of dollars. To them you are just a piss ant, some of the help. If you use a more conservative tactic and are willing to negotiate, you get a lot farther. It seems there are big egos on both sides and if Byrd isn't willing to give a little, he will end up elsewhere in 2014.

[YardRat]

The Bills' failure to pay - and thus keep - their good players is one of many reasons we are suffering through our 14th straight playoff-deprived season. It's certainly not the only reason, but it is a big contributor.

Who exactly have they let walk that was actually worth the money to keep in the last 14 seasons? Winfield, and Pat Williams, are the only two that I can really think of. Maybe Greer.

[better days]

The Bills' failure to pay - and thus keep - their good players is one of many reasons we are suffering through our 14th straight playoff-deprived season. It's certainly not the only reason, but it is a big contributor.

BAD Coaching & BAD QB play are the reasons the Bills have been so bad so long.

[pmoon6]

The Bills' failure to pay - and thus keep - their good players is one of many reasons we are suffering through our 14th straight playoff-deprived season. It's certainly not the only reason, but it is a big contributor.Hmmm. I guess the organization should cave to every players demands. 8 million a year for Nate Clements, sure. 9 million for Levitre, OK. 9 or 10 million for Byrd, why not?

The bottom line is that the organization is laying out the money, so it's they who decide what a player is worth.

The Patriots have let plenty of players walk and every year we hear how they are going downhill. 8-3 and the second seed in the playoffs as of today.

You put the onus on the Bills' when it's not that simple. Any contract requires both parties to be in agreement and we aren't privy to the negotiations.

So, you don't really know what prevented an agreement from being reached.

[YardRat]

BAD Coaching & BAD QB play are the reasons the Bills have been so bad so long.

I would add bad GM's to that list.

[Jan Reimers]

Who exactly have they let walk that was actually worth the money to keep in the last 14 seasons? Winfield, and Pat Williams, are the only two that I can really think of. Maybe Greer.
"Worth the money" is a very subjective phrase. I think most would agree that London Fletcher would have been worth keeping, and more recently, I would argue for Levitre and Posluszny, but many would disagree. I would have to do some research, but it seems that there are several more that I felt were worth the money. Not all stars, but good, serviceable players who we should have kept to avoid creating more holes.

[Jan Reimers]

BAD Coaching & BAD QB play are the reasons the Bills have been so bad so long.

I don't disagree, but I would add BAD drafts, BAD FA pickups, overpaying our mediocre players, and not paying to keep our good players.

[pmoon6]

I don't disagree, but I would add BAD drafts, BAD FA pickups, overpaying our mediocre players, and not paying to keep our good players.You forgot replacing the coaching staff every three years.

[GvilleBills]

The Bills' failure to pay - and thus keep - their good players is one of many reasons we are suffering through our 14th straight playoff-deprived season. It's certainly not the only reason, but it is a big contributor.

Exactly. When building a team, creating unnecessary holes is counterproductive. As league salaries inflate 9mil for the glue of a secondary is very reasonable.
Bottom line is the NFL is about windows. Ours ( and most teams nowadays) is before the giant QB contract eats up 1/6 of the cap.
PAY THE MAN, the defense is on the cusp of dominance. Front load the sum*****, staying in our fiscal window. I, for one, do not want to spend the next decade *****ing about "what ifs".

[GvilleBills]

I also think another factor comes into play. A player or agent using the "We want this or we're leaving" tactic, without even a modicum of willingness to compromise constitutes an ultimatum. Employers don't react well to that tactic. Even if you're a valuable asset, most of the time they say "**** you, then". They don't like it when you try to push them around, especially owners that are worth billions of dollars. To them you are just a piss ant, some of the help. If you use a more conservative tactic and are willing to negotiate, you get a lot farther. It seems there are big egos on both sides and if Byrd isn't willing to give a little, he will end up elsewhere in 2014.
Then you tag/trade him. If he walks for nothing, our front office looks like morons. Nate Clements anyone?? "We promise not to tag you again", **** you Marv. Way to posterize incompetence.

[pmoon6]

Exactly. When building a team, creating unnecessary holes is counterproductive. As league salaries inflate 9mil for the glue of a secondary is very reasonable.
Bottom line is the NFL is about windows. Ours ( and most teams nowadays) is before the giant QB contract eats up 1/6 of the cap.
PAY THE MAN, the defense is on the cusp of dominance. Front load the sum*****, staying in our fiscal window. I, for one, do not want to spend the next decade *****ing about "what ifs".HaHaha. The glue for the secondary? We were leading the league in picks before Byrd came back. Jim Leonhard has the same amount of interceptions with one less start.

[YardRat]

"Worth the money" is a very subjective phrase. I think most would agree that London Fletcher would have been worth keeping, and more recently, I would argue for Levitre and Posluszny, but many would disagree. I would have to do some research, but it seems that there are several more that I felt were worth the money. Not all stars, but good, serviceable players who we should have kept to avoid creating more holes.

Most people on these boards wanted Fletcher gone...he had the same rep the POS had, only made plays from behind or after a 4-7 yard gain. Obviously IMO, but Levitre sure as hell isn't worth what he was asking for, and I'm kind of liking Alonzo over the POS right now. I didn't want to keep him anyway. 'Good, serviceable players' should be paid 'good, serviceable' contracts....not top dollar.

[GvilleBills]

Hmmm. I guess the organization should cave to every players demands. 8 million a year for Nate Clements, sure. 9 million for Levitre, OK. 9 or 10 million for Byrd, why not?

The bottom line is that the organization is laying out the money, so it's they who decide what a player is worth.

The Patriots have let plenty of players walk and every year we hear how they are going downhill. 8-3 and the second seed in the playoffs as of today.

You put the onus on the Bills' when it's not that simple. Any contract requires both parties to be in agreement and we aren't privy to the negotiations.

So, you don't really know what prevented an agreement from being reached.

Actually Moonie, we do. His name is Eugene Parker.

[pmoon6]

Then you tag/trade him. If he walks for nothing, our front office looks like morons. Nate Clements anyone?? "We promise not to tag you again", **** you Marv. Way to posterize incompetence.I'm sure that's what will happen.

[better days]

Exactly. When building a team, creating unnecessary holes is counterproductive. As league salaries inflate 9mil for the glue of a secondary is very reasonable.
Bottom line is the NFL is about windows. Ours ( and most teams nowadays) is before the giant QB contract eats up 1/6 of the cap.
PAY THE MAN, the defense is on the cusp of dominance. Front load the sum*****, staying in our fiscal window. I, for one, do not want to spend the next decade *****ing about "what ifs".

If Byrd wants $9 Million per year, I agree PAY HIM.

But what if he wants $12 Million per year to sign with the Bills?

We have no idea what amount of money is being asked for by Byrd or what the Bills have offered.

[GvilleBills]

HaHaha. The glue for the secondary? We were leading the league in picks before Byrd came back. Jim Leonhard has the same amount of interceptions with one less start.

Oh yeah, the glue. Jimmy is a nice guy and all, but he can't hold Byrd's jock. He hasn't been heard from bc he's, at best, the fourth S.

[pmoon6]

Actually Moonie, we do. His name is Eugene Parker.That's a good point, but I was talking in general.

[GvilleBills]

If Byrd wants $9 Million per year, I agree PAY HIM.

But what if he wants $12 Million per year to sign with the Bills?

We have no idea what amount of money is being asked for by Byrd or what the Bills have offered.
12 million and he can enjoy the tag and trade. There's reasonable and ridiculous.

[GvilleBills]

That's a good point, but I was talking in general.

I feel ya dude. I'm just lamenting the lack of a grassy nole near Parkers crib. I hate that *****.

[GvilleBills]

Who exactly have they let walk that was actually worth the money to keep in the last 14 seasons? Winfield, and Pat Williams, are the only two that I can really think of. Maybe Greer.
That would be my 3 as well.

[better days]

12 million and he can enjoy the tag and trade. There's reasonable and ridiculous.

Exactly. And we have no idea if Parker is asking for reasonable money or ridiculous money.

But after hearing Russ say the Bills made a VERY AGGRESSIVE offer to Byrd last year, I think Parker may be looking for ridiculous money.

[GvilleBills]

Exactly. And we have no idea if Parker is asking for reasonable money or ridiculous money.

But after hearing Russ say the Bills made a VERY AGGRESSIVE offer to Byrd last year, I think Parker may be looking for ridiculous money.
I hadn't seen the Brandon quote til this morning, but thats the feeling I got as well.

[pmoon6]

Oh yeah, the glue. Jimmy is a nice guy and all, but he can't hold Byrd's jock. He hasn't been heard from bc he's, at best, the fourth S.Sorry, I think the Bills' defense functions just fine with or without Byrd. If Byrd wants to be paid like the best safety in the league, why is conspicuously absent in run support? I don't see him making a lot of big sticks.

Byrd is younger and faster, but starting Byrd doesn't mean Leonhard "can't hold his jock". That sounds a lot like fanboy stuff.

Bottom line, the defense has been pretty much equal with either Leonhard or Byrd.

[YardRat]

Sorry, I think the Bills' defense functions just fine with or without Byrd. If Byrd wants to be paid like the best safety in the league, why is conspicuously absent in run support? I don't see him making a lot of big sticks.

Byrd is younger and faster, but starting Byrd doesn't mean Leonhard "can't hold his jock". That sounds a lot like fanboy stuff.

Bottom line, the defense has been pretty much equal with either Leonhard or Byrd.

Which is exactly why Byrd needs to establish himself as a game-changer over the last third of the season. Why pay somebody 9mil per season when you can pay somebody else a third or a quarter of that with zero, or at least very little, drop-off from the perspective of the team's performance?

[Jan Reimers]

I guess the biggest overall issues for me in this whole debate are: 1.) when we are our usual $20 Million or so under the cap, we still refuse to pay our good players; 2.) we always have enough to overpay the Kelsays and Fitzpatricks on our roster; and 3.) we are willing to give a huge contract to a career underachiever like Mario Williams, but not to one of our existing standouts like Byrd and Levitre.

Seems foolish and inconsistent to me.

[cookie G]

Sorry, I think the Bills' defense functions just fine with or without Byrd. If Byrd wants to be paid like the best safety in the league, why is conspicuously absent in run support? I don't see him making a lot of big sticks.

Byrd is younger and faster, but starting Byrd doesn't mean Leonhard "can't hold his jock". That sounds a lot like fanboy stuff.

Bottom line, the defense has been pretty much equal with either Leonhard or Byrd.

I feel the same way... except I'll just say that if I'm paying 9-10 million a year on a guy, it isn't him. There are plenty of other guys in the NFL that I can give that money. Not to a guy who gets paid 7 million then sits out half the year in a snit.

There were the "Byrd is back" threads after the Jets game...and I didn't post in them for fear of enraging the faithful...

...but did you see the Ints? One one INT, he had to take two steps while the ball was in the air...on the other...he didn't move at all. On the 2nd Int, he literally took 3 steps the entire play before the ball hit him in the hands.

I'm glad he caught the ball and made the INT...but somehow that's now worth 10 million? Not to me...I mean, that's like watching a DB or LB go unblocked on a blitz and sack the QB...and then say "Damn, he's a sackmaster!"

I'll take the 10 million and go after Jimmy Graham..or buy a good RT and an interior lineman.

Hell, if I'm the GM...I'll take 2 million and write a check to Kyle Williams for the hell of it and just say "Thank you"

Dude played 2 separate seasons with bone spurs scraping away at his Achilles. Never said boo until after the season was over.

[GvilleBills]

Sorry, I think the Bills' defense functions just fine with or without Byrd. If Byrd wants to be paid like the best safety in the league, why is conspicuously absent in run support? I don't see him making a lot of big sticks.

Byrd is younger and faster, but starting Byrd doesn't mean Leonhard "can't hold his jock". That sounds a lot like fanboy stuff.

Bottom line, the defense has been pretty much equal with either Leonhard or Byrd.
Just feels like the D is better overall since he came back. Could be maturation in the new system, but they feel like they aren't far off from dominant.
Jimmy deserves better than my comment, consider it rescinded. But I stand by the D being better with Byrd, now and certainly long term.
Now the run defense? There's the rub... I consider Byrd to be a very good run defender (Cookie, j know we disagree on this ;) ). The absence of that part of his game this year hopefully is scheme related. Otherwise, he's playing scared like a *****. Worried about the contract. I'd prefer to believe the former as of now.

[better days]

I guess the biggest overall issues for me in this whole debate are: 1.) when we are our usual $20 Million or so under the cap, we still refuse to pay our good players; 2.) we always have enough to overpay the Kelsays and Fitzpatricks on our roster; and 3.) we are willing to give a huge contract to a career underachiever like Mario Williams, but not to one of our existing standouts like Byrd and Levitre.

Seems foolish and inconsistent to me.

Well, I don't think Mario is an underachiever. He plays up to his ability when surrounded by other good players, but when he is the only good player or in a terrible system like last year where other teams can game plan against him, he is much less effective.

I would be happy to see the Bills make Byrd the highest paid safety, but not by a huge amount.

If the highest paid safety is now making $9 Mill, I would not mind paying Byrd $9.5 Million, but I think Parker may be asking for $11 or $12 Million.

[better days]

I feel the same way... except I'll just say that if I'm paying 9-10 million a year on a guy, it isn't him. There are plenty of other guys in the NFL that I can give that money. Not to a guy who gets paid 7 million then sits out half the year in a snit.

There were the "Byrd is back" threads after the Jets game...and I didn't post in them for fear of enraging the faithful...

...but did you see the Ints? One one INT, he had to take two steps while the ball was in the air...on the other...he didn't move at all. On the 2nd Int, he literally took 3 steps the entire play before the ball hit him in the hands.

I'm glad he caught the ball and made the INT...but somehow that's now worth 10 million? Not to me...I mean, that's like watching a DB or LB go unblocked on a blitz and sack the QB...and then say "Damn, he's a sackmaster!"

I'll take the 10 million and go after Jimmy Graham..or buy a good RT and an interior lineman.

Hell, if I'm the GM...I'll take 2 million and write a check to Kyle Williams for the hell of it and just say "Thank you"

Dude played 2 separate seasons with bone spurs scraping away at his Achilles. Never said boo until after the season was over.

The only problem I have is with the INT's. Byrd put himself in position to make those INT's, that is the reason he did not have to move.

He had already ANTICIPATED where the QB would go with the ball.

[The Jokeman]

Quick, someone make a meme with Lloyd Christmas from dumb and dumber and caption as ”so you're saying there is a CHANCE!!!”

Google is your friend,
http://img.pandawhale.com/50246-so-youre-telling-me-theres-a-c-RHL9.jpeg

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I feel the same way... except I'll just say that if I'm paying 9-10 million a year on a guy, it isn't him. There are plenty of other guys in the NFL that I can give that money. Not to a guy who gets paid 7 million then sits out half the year in a snit.

There were the "Byrd is back" threads after the Jets game...and I didn't post in them for fear of enraging the faithful...

...but did you see the Ints? One one INT, he had to take two steps while the ball was in the air...on the other...he didn't move at all. On the 2nd Int, he literally took 3 steps the entire play before the ball hit him in the hands.

I'm glad he caught the ball and made the INT...but somehow that's now worth 10 million? Not to me...I mean, that's like watching a DB or LB go unblocked on a blitz and sack the QB...and then say "Damn, he's a sackmaster!"

I'll take the 10 million and go after Jimmy Graham..or buy a good RT and an interior lineman.

Hell, if I'm the GM...I'll take 2 million and write a check to Kyle Williams for the hell of it and just say "Thank you"

Dude played 2 separate seasons with bone spurs scraping away at his Achilles. Never said boo until after the season was over.

Hey, I'd love to take a run at Jimmy Graham too, but what do you think the odds are he actually hits the market? He's New Orleans' second best player.

Letting Byrd walk to chase some other big ticket free agent assumes that there will be some free agent worth that money, and that they would come to Buffalo.

[BillsFever21]

The only problem I have is with the INT's. Byrd put himself in position to make those INT's, that is the reason he did not have to move.

He had already ANTICIPATED where the QB would go with the ball.

That was pretty nice of the QB just to throw the ball to Byrd so he could have the INT. They must really like him since he has averaged one every 3 games in his career not to mention all the FF's along with with it. It's not like on most INT's the player is running 40 yards to the ball and jumping 5 feet in the air to intercept it.

Many INT's are not tough ones and it's because guys like Byrd has good anticipation. Several INT's can be a coincidence but not an average of 1 every 3 games in your career. The original poster failed to mention that and is acting like if it's not a superhuman play then the QB just decided to give you the ball or was colorblind.

[YardRat]

Byrd's INT's were more about scheme and formation than they were about ability.

Searcy's INT was 10 times more impressive than both of Byrd's put together, and that has nothing to do with it resulting in six points.

Top paid players are dominant, period. Byrd has been good, at times very good...but not dominant. As I said before, he has the opportunity to prove he can be dominant and is worth being the highest paid player at his position over the next five games.

[jdaltroy5]

This is hilarious.

At first people wanted to give him the season to see if he was worth the money.

After 3 picks in 6 games, they want to judge him on his NEXT 5 games to see if he's worth it.

He has 31 TOs in 68 games in 4 different schemes with 4 different coaches.

Just pay the man already.

[Crisis]

This is hilarious.

At first people wanted to give him the season to see if he was worth the money.

After 3 picks in 6 games, they want to judge him on his NEXT 5 games to see if he's worth it.

He has 31 TOs in 68 games in 4 different schemes with 4 different coaches.

Just pay the man already.

It's really incredible. People lose all their credibility when they say things like Kerry Rhodes is better than him right now.

[BillsFever21]

This is hilarious.

At first people wanted to give him the season to see if he was worth the money.

After 3 picks in 6 games, they want to judge him on his NEXT 5 games to see if he's worth it.

He has 31 TOs in 68 games in 4 different schemes with 4 different coaches.

Just pay the man already.

And if he had 2 more INT's and/or FF's over the next couple games then they will say we need to see what he does the last few games.

In reality for the majority of people performing the way he has in his 4.5 seasons in for different defenses and three different head coaches along with an interim HC would be enough proof. Nope it all hinges on the next 5 games.

If Byrd played for a different team and Buffalo was trying to sign him then the same people would be saying it would be a great signing for the Bills. Since he bucked the authority of Russ Brandon and Ralph Wilson and actually wanted paid that means he needs to keep proving it even after 5 years and 4 different defensive systems. If that's not the definition of being a versatile playmaker then I don't know what would be. It's not like he's been doing under one system and one great HC/DC for 5 years.

Unfortunately he will be gone after this season. We had our chance to sign him but the Bills low balled him. They tried offering around 7 million which is the average of the top 5 base salaries in the NFL and not the average of the actual contract and guaranteed money. The actual yearly salaries are always smaller because they're not factoring in the bonuses on top of it.

My guess is they didn't even offer him as much as Dashon Goldson received when Byrd has been much better and is also two years younger. Goldson received an average of 8.25 million per season. Byrd wanting up to a million dollars more on average wasn't out of the question. That's what the going rate is for safeties. You can't compare contracts that were signed several years ago. If they did only offer him an average of 7 million dollars a year then I don't blame him for declining and taking his chances. He will get that money somewhere and unfortunately it won't be in Buffalo because of it. But hey we can cheer about being 18 million under the cap like it's a good thing. Then every offseason we can talk about all the players we won't sign with the money.

[BillsFever21]

It's really incredible. People lose all their credibility when they say things like Kerry Rhodes is better than him right now.

And that same Kerry Rhodes was given a 5 year-33 million dollar contract with the Jets in 2008. For some reason some people must feel the inflation of average player salaries have only went up by a million a year since then. Hell some people have said that Byrd's market value is only 6 million today.

At an average of 7 million a year like many reported the Bills offered Byrd that would only put him tied for the 7th highest paid safety in the NFL and barely in the top 10 by a few hundred thousand. The Bills wanted to pay him contracts that were given out to safeties from several years ago when their contract was up.

[YardRat]

It's really incredible. People lose all their credibility when they say things like Kerry Rhodes is better than him right now.

I had a brain fart and was going via memory instead doing a google for top safeties, salaries etc...but I deserve some abuse for including him.

[YardRat]

This is hilarious.

At first people wanted to give him the season to see if he was worth the money.

After 3 picks in 6 games, they want to judge him on his NEXT 5 games to see if he's worth it.

He has 31 TOs in 68 games in 4 different schemes with 4 different coaches.

Just pay the man already.

It's equally hilarious that people want to break bank after a two 'gimme'-pick game. Of course, he could get torched deep a few times in the next couple of games because he doesn't have the speed to give help over the top someone would normally expect from an 'elite' safety (as he has already this season a few times), and those that have been on the 'Ralph is cheap, just pay the man' bandwagon would still be riding that ride.

[BillsFever21]

If he finishes the year strong, I'd be willing to reverse my current stance and get on board to pay him top money.

I'll steal from Illuminati's thread on Spiller...these next five games will determine how much he is worth re-signing. At worst, it's top 5 $ anyway. This is his opportunity to prove he's elite.

Byrd has almost 5 years of top safety play under 4 different defenses and it all hinges on whether he tears it up the last 5 weeks of the season? :rofl:

That sounds like a Buddy Nix move with Ryan Fitzpatrick but just the opposite way. "Well he has been a journeymen his entire career but he played good for the first month of the season. Lets give him 10 million a year and 20 million guaranteed"

In my eyes it's the complete package and not just several games. He's preformed in 4 different defenses in 5 years. If that isn't "proof" enough for you then nothing he does the next 5 games will be. Especially when you discredit any turnovers because he didn't need to be a gymnast on a certain play to pick it off.

[BillsFever21]

It's equally hilarious that people want to break bank after a two 'gimme'-pick game. Of course, he could get torched deep a few times in the next couple of games because he doesn't have the speed to give help over the top someone would normally expect from an 'elite' safety (as he has already this season a few times), and those that have been on the 'Ralph is cheap, just pay the man' bandwagon would still be riding that ride.

It's not because of a two(gimmie) pick game like you wish to use. It must be the 5 years of gimmie picks and forced fumbles he's created. Not to mention key INT's like in the Arizona game that sealed the victory last season. That's pretty nice of all them QB's to give him all of them charity gimmie interceptions over the past 4.5 years.

[YardRat]

Where are you getting this four different defenses in five years? Wannstadt really did little different than Edwards, and neither one of those was a far reach from Fewell's Cover2. At best, three, but in reality it's closer to two.

[jdaltroy5]

It's equally hilarious that people want to break bank after a two 'gimme'-pick game. Of course, he could get torched deep a few times in the next couple of games because he doesn't have the speed to give help over the top someone would normally expect from an 'elite' safety (as he has already this season a few times), and those that have been on the 'Ralph is cheap, just pay the man' bandwagon would still be riding that ride.Except I don't want to break the bank after a two pick game. This is something that he has consistently been able to do over 5 years.

And why do you care if we "break the bank"?

Most of out best players have several years remaining on their rookie contracts.

We are a worse team without him. That's all we should care about.

And BTW, he seems to always be in position to catch those "gimme interceptions."

The fact that he has elite instincts might have something to do with it.

[jdaltroy5]

Where are you getting this four different defenses in five years? Wannstadt really did little different than Edwards, and neither one of those was a far reach from Fewell's Cover2. At best, three, but in reality it's closer to two.
I'm sure they have different verbiage, assignments, wrinkles, etc...

[jimmifli]

I had a brain fart and was going via memory instead doing a google for top safeties, salaries etc...
You've taken a strong position and shown that you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't deserve abuse. You just deserve to have your arguments ignored.

[Dr. Lecter]

I feel the same way... except I'll just say that if I'm paying 9-10 million a year on a guy, it isn't him. There are plenty of other guys in the NFL that I can give that money. Not to a guy who gets paid 7 million then sits out half the year in a snit.

There were the "Byrd is back" threads after the Jets game...and I didn't post in them for fear of enraging the faithful...

...but did you see the Ints? One one INT, he had to take two steps while the ball was in the air...on the other...he didn't move at all. On the 2nd Int, he literally took 3 steps the entire play before the ball hit him in the hands.

I'm glad he caught the ball and made the INT...but somehow that's now worth 10 million? Not to me...I mean, that's like watching a DB or LB go unblocked on a blitz and sack the QB...and then say "Damn, he's a sackmaster!"

I'll take the 10 million and go after Jimmy Graham..or buy a good RT and an interior lineman.

Hell, if I'm the GM...I'll take 2 million and write a check to Kyle Williams for the hell of it and just say "Thank you"

Dude played 2 separate seasons with bone spurs scraping away at his Achilles. Never said boo until after the season was over.

I think you are over simplifying his sitting out. If you look at the players who have signed franchise deals and then had serious injuries, I sure as hell do not blame him one bit.

It really boils down to this - the Bills drafted and developed a top 5 player at his position. For once they need to keep that guy and pay him accordingly. Fair or not, the way the system works is that when a top 5 player is a UFA he becomes the highest paid guy. Until the next season, when another guy is in the same position and becomes #1. This franchise has to change their perception in the league. And paying an actual defensive playmaker like Byrd is a pretty good start. And this is more than this year. Last year alone, he might be the main reason they beat Arizona and Miami. He seems to make a lot of these plays. At some point is more than just getting lucky.

As for taking the money and going elsewhere - they still have that money. What they should have done is signed Byrd this year with a front loaded deal to eat up this year's cap space. It made no sense not to, especially once Levitre walked.

And I love Kyle Williams too. But to say he said nothing about the injury is not accurate as he rarely practiced during the week and played 5 games in 2011. By no means do I think he was dogging it, but those bone spurs cut the 2011 season very short for him.

The Bills look like a team that could be on the upswing. The best way to continue that is to sign your best players. Byrd is one of those best players and is probably the only player on the roster that is top 5 at his position.

For the betterment of the team and their ability to sign other players they need to get him wrapped up.

[Bill Cody]

With our luck we DO pay him and he turns out to be the malignant turd he appeared to be before he decided he needed to get back on the field and earn his next contract. Potential conversation next year:

Reporter: So how's the hangnail feeling Jairus?

Byrd: "I'm taking it one day at time, getting my manicures, eating lots of jello.

Reporter: So any idea when you'll be back?

Byrd: "Well I'd like to help them out but you know I need to be sure I'm 110% healthy before I come back. Could you excuse me, its time for my massage."

[YardRat]

Except I don't want to break the bank after a two pick game. This is something that he has consistently been able to do over 5 years.

And why do you care if we "break the bank"?

Most of out best players have several years remaining on their rookie contracts.

We are a worse team without him. That's all we should care about.

And BTW, he seems to always be in position to catch those "gimme interceptions."

The fact that he has elite instincts might have something to do with it.

Are we? Is the defense playing any better, or worse, than they were the first few games of the season when he was getting into shape?

[YardRat]

You've taken a strong position and shown that you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't deserve abuse. You just deserve to have your arguments ignored.

Go ahead and lay out how the Bill's defense has been better the last six games compared to the first five. Go ahead and explain Byrd's impact on that difference.

I'm listening.

While you are at it, go ahead and list the specific examples of Byrd being a better 'play-maker' than Leonhard, Williams, Searcy etc.

[jdaltroy5]

Are we? Is the defense playing any better, or worse, than they were the first few games of the season when he was getting into shape?I would say we are playing better. In the last three games, our defense has only given up 15 PPG.

[GvilleBills]

Pay him. He played with the fascia last year, he's playing with it now. It won't be an issue IMO, but I understand not having him the benefit of the doubt.
The Bills tagged him, within the constructs of the CBA. He held out, also within the wider rules. Were boundaries pushed and feelings hurt? Absolutely. Is Parker the biggest pile of **** agent from our angle? Totally, but he looks pretty sharp from his clients view.
Top 5 guys get #1 money every year, it's the cycle of FA inflation. Byrd is a homegrown stud, top 3 at his position.
This signing is huge not only for continuity on a gelling Defense, but for perceptions across the league. The difference between serious contention and a "recharged" franchise vs. filling holes and "same 'ol Bills."

This teams window is open now, hoping we don't miss it again.

[Bill Cody]

You've taken a strong position and shown that you don't know what you're talking about.

You don't deserve abuse. You just deserve to have your arguments ignored.

lol Yardrat is a very good poster. He made a mistake. You haven't made one before? If we ignored every poster who made a mistake the entire board would be on ignore. You just want to dismiss him because he disagrees with you. Let me grade that effort: :1:

[cookie G]

I think you are over simplifying his sitting out. If you look at the players who have signed franchise deals and then had serious injuries, I sure as hell do not blame him one bit.

"oh come on cut the rah rah **** Taylor! Year after this I go free agent. Plus me and my agent got a couple of plans for life after baseball. So I am not about to risk major injury or displace this property for a collection of stiffs!"

~Roger Dorn, Major League

When did Roger Dorn become the absolutely-must-sign-pay-him-whatever-he-wants type of player?

You can suffer a major injury in your franchise year.
You can also suffer one in your contract year, like Jeremy Maclin did.
You can suffer one after you sign a multi year deal.
You can suffer one in your rookie year and lose any opportunity for a payday, or to show your talent.


That is a risk inherent in the game.

I don't know how that justifies sitting out half a season and saying "I might get hurt out there".



It really boils down to this - the Bills drafted and developed a top 5 player at his position. For once they need to keep that guy and pay him accordingly. Fair or not, the way the system works is that when a top 5 player is a UFA he becomes the highest paid guy. Until the next season, when another guy is in the same position and becomes #1.

This franchise has to change their perception in the league. And paying an actual defensive playmaker like Byrd is a pretty good start. And this is more than this year. Last year alone, he might be the main reason they beat Arizona and Miami. He seems to make a lot of these plays. At some point is more than just getting lucky.

As much as people like to quote the man's stats...all those awesome interceptions...you know how many he has averaged over the past four seasons?

3

That's it...3. That is incredibly average for a guy whose forte is supposed to be ballhawking, and who plays the one position where all you really do is ballhawk. And that is over a 4 year period, not just one.

And for a guy whose run D is average to below average ..

I've already acknowledged that he's a good to very good center fielder. But that doesn't make you a $10 million a year guy.

As far as the "at his position" statement....

You know what's easier to replace than an interior OL?

An above average FS.

A Pomulalu in his prime..
An Ed Reed in his prime...

A different story. Except he's neither of them. People who think he is need to put down their laptops during a game and stop worrying about their fantasy teams and actually watch.

But the average to above average FS's are out there. Many are tall corners who couldn't cut it as a corner.



As for taking the money and going elsewhere - they still have that money. What they should have done is signed Byrd this year with a front loaded deal to eat up this year's cap space. It made no sense not to, especially once Levitre walked.

And this is my main point... quit acting like he's the only FA out there.

Quit acting like $10 million can only be spent on Byrd. You can get plenty of quality if you look.

People use to talk about "home town" discounts when it came to re-signing free agents. Now, we talk about "home town" 40% premiums to pay for our home grown FA's.

After the Bills lost Levitre...I said, OK...if you don't want to pay him..replace him. Well they didn't.

I totally agree that you can't just bank the money you saved, not in the NFL.. and you certainly can't keep sitting $20 million under the cap, but by the same token...there isn't just option A and option B.



And I love Kyle Williams too. But to say he said nothing about the injury is not accurate as he rarely practiced during the week and played 5 games in 2011. By no means do I think he was dogging it, but those bone spurs cut the 2011 season very short for him.

The Bills look like a team that could be on the upswing. The best way to continue that is to sign your best players. Byrd is one of those best players and is probably the only player on the roster that is top 5 at his position.

For the betterment of the team and their ability to sign other players they need to get him wrapped up.

He's no Kyle Williams as a player or as a person. I'll build my team around the Kyle Williams'.

I agree, the team is on an upswing. That's why I'm not spending the money on a diva.

I'll find someone who can play and wants to play for $10 million.

[Meathead]

coat yardrat in honey and tie him to an army ant colony i say

bills still have some leverage with the second tag but i dont think it will get to that. then again i didnt think it would get to that last time, but i think it was byrd that was dumb that round. im hoping he learned his lesson and will ease off that highest paid ever demand, and im guessing he will. bills will bump their side a little and theyll find a deal

[jdaltroy5]

As much as people like to quote the man's stats...all those awesome interceptions...you know how many he has averaged over the past four seasons?

3

That's it...3. That is incredibly average for a guy whose forte is supposed to be ballhawking, and who plays the one position where all you really do is ballhawk. And that is over a 4 year period, not just one.That's ridiculous. You can't just remove his best statistical season to try to prove a point.

If that's the case, if you remove his WORST season and average out this season to 16 games, he is averaging 6.25 INTs per year. Not to mention his 10FFs as well.

There was also a PFF article about his statistics and QBR when thrown in his direction. According to PFF, his 2012 season was the third best season of ANY safety in the last 5 years. His 2011 season was ranked 15th. The QBR when thrown in his direction, total yards, TDs given up, passes deflected, etc... are all among the best in the league.

He's not just about turnovers.


And for a guy whose run D is average to below average ..Disagree. It was below average in his first year and has steadily gotten better since then.


I've already acknowledged that he's a good to very good center fielder. But that doesn't make you a $10 million a year guy. Why not? TOs are crucial in the NFL. This guy can generate as well or better than almost anyone in the league. That's worth 10 mil a year.


You know what's easier to replace than an interior OL?

An above average FS.With what? A high draft pick? Why not save the draft pick and fill another area of need?


A Pomulalu in his prime..
An Ed Reed in his prime...

A different story. Except he's neither of them. People who think he is need to put down their laptops during a game and stop worrying about their fantasy teams and actually watch. And in today's NFL, if those players were in their prime and up for FA, they would be getting 12mil a year.

But if you look at just the stats, Byrd is very comparable to them and those guys played with much better players around them.


But the average to above average FS's are out there. Many are tall corners who couldn't cut it as a corner. You know, I never thought you'd be that guy. "Sure, that guy is pretty good, but position X isn't important and we can just replace him with Johnny Noname and no one will notice the slight drop off."


And this is my main point... quit acting like he's the only FA out there.

Quit acting like $10 million can only be spent on Byrd. You can get plenty of quality if you look.

People use to talk about "home town" discounts when it came to re-signing free agents. Now, we talk about "home town" 40% premiums to pay for our home grown FA's.

After the Bills lost Levitre...I said, OK...if you don't want to pay him..replace him. Well they didn't.

I totally agree that you can't just bank the money you saved, not in the NFL.. and you certainly can't keep sitting $20 million under the cap, but by the same token...there isn't just option A and option B.
The thing is, we've all seen this team over the last decade. If they DON'T spend it on Byrd, they WILL pocket the money. That's already a foregone conclusion in my mind.

And if they do go out and replace him, they are going to have to overpay a talented player to come here. He is most likely either going to be unproven or getting up there in age.

Byrd is proven and right smack dab in the middle of his prime.

So we can overpay a guy and hope he fits in with the system, city, teammates, etc... or we can overpay a guy that we already know will fit in.

Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

[YardRat]

coat yardrat in honey and tie him to an army ant colony i say

Doh, jeez...not again.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW...very well said, cookie.

[pmoon6]

How much is Gilmore making? McKelvin? More than half of what Byrd is making and corner is a much harder position to play. Every other safety on the roster is making 1/10th of what Byrd is making this year. And he wants more?

Bottom line is Byrd and his agent are over valuing his talents, probably because they think the Bills will cave. I don't blame them if they don't, considering players that contribute just as much or more are being paid far less. What message does that send to the other players?

[jdaltroy5]

How much is Gilmore making? McKelvin? More than half of what Byrd is making and corner is a much harder position to play. Every other safety on the roster is making 1/10th of what Byrd is making this year. And he wants more? You're comparing apples to oranges.

Gilmore is on a rookie contract. If he becomes an elite CB, he will be making MORE than Byrd will be. McKelvin has varied from second to fourth string CB and is making 4.25 million. Corner IS a harder position and that's why elite corners make more than elite safeties. Darrelle Revis makes 13mil a year. The top five CBs all make more than the top paid safety (base salary).


Bottom line is Byrd and his agent are over valuing his talents, probably because they think the Bills will cave. I don't blame them if they don't, considering players that contribute just as much or more are being paid far less. What message does that send to the other players?They aren't overvaluing his talents. That's just the way FA works. Mario Williams isn't the best pass rusher in the league, but he is being paid like he is because his contract was up. Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan aren't the best QBs, but they are the highest paid, because, guess what? Their contract was up.

And in all honesty, who do you think has consistently been as good on the Bills over the last 5 years? Kyle Williams maybe?

The message that it sends to the players is if they show and perform at an elite level, they will get paid.

What message does it send to the players (and fans) if they DON'T pay him?

[pmoon6]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Gilmore is on a rookie contract. If he becomes an elite CB, he will be making MORE than Byrd will be. McKelvin has varied from second to fourth string CB and is making 4.25 million. Corner IS a harder position and that's why elite corners make more than elite safeties. Darrelle Revis makes 13mil a year. The top five CBs all make more than the top paid safety (base salary).

They aren't overvaluing his talents. That's just the way FA works. Mario Williams isn't the best pass rusher in the league, but he is being paid like he is because his contract was up. Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan aren't the best QBs, but they are the highest paid, because, guess what? Their contract was up.

And in all honesty, who do you think has consistently been as good on the Bills over the last 5 years? Kyle Williams maybe?

The message that it sends to the players is if they show and perform at an elite level, they will get paid.

What message does it send to the players (and fans) if they DON'T pay him?Who cares what message it sends to the fans, you aren't privy to the negotiations anyway, so you really don't know what went on. You only know what the media tells you or what is put out by the parties. Besides, 90% of football fans are braindead morons anyway.

You're an idiot if you think Byrd is playing at an elite level, certainly not worth being the top paid safety in the league.

In any business, job evaluation is subjective. One guy thinks he's doing a better than his colleague, but it's up to management to make that determination. If you give the colleague a big raise, then the other guy gets disgruntled. It creates a difficult work environment.

If Byrd does go, it just gives many Bills Fans another reason to ***** about the Front Office, so it's a win/win. He stays, we be keepin' our good players.

You also missed the part about what our other safeties were making and in previous posts where it was mentioned Jim Leonhard played just as well as Byrd. Is Leonhard worth 9/10ths of Byrd's current salary? And Byrd wants 2 million dollars more per year than that? So, not apples and oranges.

[jdaltroy5]

Who cares what message it sends to the fansI care and so should you. We all should. We're the ones paying these guys. If the fans don't feel like the team is committed to building a winner, they'll find different ways to spend their money.


you aren't privy to the negotiations anyway, so you really don't know what went on. You only know what the media tells you or what is put out by the parties. Sure, none of us REALLY know what went on behind closed doors. For all we know, they offered him 3 mil a year. We're discussing with the information that we have.


You're an idiot if you think Byrd is playing at an elite level, certainly not worth being the top paid safety in the league.I'm sorry, why am I an idiot? All of the stats (both advanced and basic) point to him being an elite safety. All the pundits rank him as elite. He's made the pro bowl twice in his first four years. What are you basing your opinion of him on? Let me guess, you just know more than everyone and I only watch fantasy stats and don't understand the game. Ok there junc.


In any business, job evaluation is subjective. One guy thinks he's doing a better than his colleague, but it's up to management to make that determination. If you give the colleague a big raise, then the other guy gets disgruntled. It creates a difficult work environment.And if a colleague gets disgruntled because I earned a big payday, then he should work his butt off to try to get a big payday for himself. Do you want to work with people that are only going to ***** and moan about other people's success or do you want to work with someone who is willing to put forth maximum effort to do his job?


If Byrd does go, it just gives many Bills Fans another reason to ***** about the Front Office, so it's a win/win. He stays, we be keepin' our good players.And if he goes Bills fans will have a reason to ***** about the front office.


You also missed the part about what our other safeties were making and in previous posts where it was mentioned Jim Leonhard played just as well as Byrd. Is Leonhard worth 9/10ths of Byrd's current salary? And Byrd wants 2 million dollars more per year than that? So, not apples and oranges.I didn't miss anything. I didn't address it because it was ridiculous.

Even if Leonhard DID play as well as Byrd has (which he hasn't) then he would have to do it consistently over a long period of time if he wanted a contract like Byrd's.

[cookie G]

That's ridiculous. You can't just remove his best statistical season to try to prove a point.

If that's the case, if you remove his WORST season and average out this season to 16 games, he is averaging 6.25 INTs per year. Not to mention his 10FFs as well.

There was also a PFF article about his statistics and QBR when thrown in his direction. According to PFF, his 2012 season was the third best season of ANY safety in the last 5 years. His 2011 season was ranked 15th. The QBR when thrown in his direction, total yards, TDs given up, passes deflected, etc... are all among the best in the league.

He's not just about turnovers.

No, it isn't ridiculous..

For instance, a WR comes in the league and sets it on fire...has 1500 receiving yards his first year.

After that, he averages 500 for his next 3 seasons.
After that, in his contract year, ends up with 700-800 yards.

He then says... I want to be the highest paid WR in the league.

Under your logic, you pay him.




Disagree. It was below average in his first year and has steadily gotten better since then.

tackles like a girl, avoids contact whenever he can and it isn't a coincidence that the Bills have been among the bottom 3 teams in giving up 20+ yard runs since he's been here.

He's almost embarassing to watch at times.

C'mon Dorn, put your body into it, don't give me that Ole crap!



Why not? TOs are crucial in the NFL. This guy can generate as well or better than almost anyone in the league. That's worth 10 mil a year.

He did in 2009..but since then...

its 2013...his contract will be 2014 and beyond.




With what? A high draft pick? Why not save the draft pick and fill another area of need?

Free agency...Jim Leonhard has already equaled your guy's 4 year average for INT's.



And in today's NFL, if those players were in their prime and up for FA, they would be getting 12mil a year.

But if you look at just the stats, Byrd is very comparable to them and those guys played with much better players around them.

You know, I never thought you'd be that guy. "Sure, that guy is pretty good, but position X isn't important and we can just replace him with Johnny Noname and no one will notice the slight drop off."

He's not "those players". Paying him $10 million a year won't make him "those players".

I'm "that guy" because I don't cream my pants when Geno Smith throws a ball right into his hands and scream about what an awesome play it was.

Every opposing QB in the league accounted for Polumalu on every play, run or pass.
Ed Reed was good enough that the Ravens could get by on lesser CB's for years, even after McAlister's play declined.
Bob Sanders, when healthy, transformed the Colt's run D.

That's not Byrd. Sorry. I know people have it built up in their heads that he is..but he isnt.

I'm all for spending money...said that before...and I'll say it again.

There are plenty of areas to upgrade for $10 million.

But if we sign Byrd for $10-11 million
and if we pass up a dominant TE;
or a playmaking WR;
or an upgrade to the OL

I'm going to blame some of the people in this room, and that.. I will not forgive.



The thing is, we've all seen this team over the last decade. If they DON'T spend it on Byrd, they WILL pocket the money. That's already a foregone conclusion in my mind.

And if they do go out and replace him, they are going to have to overpay a talented player to come here. He is most likely either going to be unproven or getting up there in age.

Byrd is proven and right smack dab in the middle of his prime.

So we can overpay a guy and hope he fits in with the system, city, teammates, etc... or we can overpay a guy that we already know will fit in.

Seems like a pretty simple solution to me.

And how does overpaying for him stop this "culture change".

That's the Chris Kelsay logic. Well, if we're not going to spend it anyway, we might as well overpay some guy on our team..

That makes no sense to me.

[pmoon6]

I care and so should you. We all should. We're the ones paying these guys. If the fans don't feel like the team is committed to building a winner, they'll find different ways to spend their money.

Sure, none of us REALLY know what went on behind closed doors. For all we know, they offered him 3 mil a year. We're discussing with the information that we have.

I'm sorry, why am I an idiot? All of the stats (both advanced and basic) point to him being an elite safety. All the pundits rank him as elite. He's made the pro bowl twice in his first four years. What are you basing your opinion of him on? Let me guess, you just know more than everyone and I only watch fantasy stats and don't understand the game. Ok there junc.

And if a colleague gets disgruntled because I earned a big payday, then he should work his butt off to try to get a big payday for himself. Do you want to work with people that are only going to ***** and moan about other people's success or do you want to work with someone who is willing to put forth maximum effort to do his job?

And if he goes Bills fans will have a reason to ***** about the front office.

I didn't miss anything. I didn't address it because it was ridiculous.

Even if Leonhard DID play as well as Byrd has (which he hasn't) then he would have to do it consistently over a long period of time if he wanted a contract like Byrd's.Bwahahaha, Cookie already said it better than I could.

And don't put words like "Fantasy stats" and "you don't understand the game" in my mouth because I never said it, you did.

I guess you are still stinging from my likening you to NYJunc because you just pulled a "I know you are, but what am I" three weeks after the fact.

You will never convince me that Jairus Byrd should be the top paid safety in the league, If Parker and Byrd want to sit down and be reasonable and accept 7 million or so, fine. 10 is ridiculous as your assessment of Byrd's skills.

P.S. Pro Bowl doesn't mean ****. Popularity contest and since it's played the week before the Super Bowl, the best players don't even play.

[jdaltroy5]

No, it isn't ridiculous..

For instance, a WR comes in the league and sets it on fire...has 1500 receiving yards his first year.

After that, he averages 500 for his next 3 seasons.
After that, in his contract year, ends up with 700-800 yards.

He then says... I want to be the highest paid WR in the league.

Under your logic, you pay him.Then you average out the what he's done over entire time. You don't just completely remove one season because it doesn't suit your argument.



tackles like a girl, avoids contact whenever he can and it isn't a coincidence that the Bills have been among the bottom 3 teams in giving up 20+ yard runs since he's been here. He's almost embarassing to watch at times. I'm not going to pretend that he's laying guys out on every play. He's not. But I think his tackling is one of the things that he's really improved on since his rookie year. He generally doesn't miss a lot of tackles.



He did in 2009..but since then...

its 2013...his contract will be 2014 and beyond. He's created 22 turnovers in 54 games since then.





Free agency...Jim Leonhard has already equaled your guy's 4 year average for INT's. And that's the most INTs Leonhard has had in his career. He generally gets 1 or 2 per year. If Leonhard had that pace at the beginning of his career and was just entering his prime, I'd want him to get paid as well.




He's not "those players". Paying him $10 million a year won't make him "those players".I never said he was. That's why I said, if "those players" were in their prime and becoming FAs, they would be getting paid more than Byrd.


I'm "that guy" because I don't cream my pants when Geno Smith throws a ball right into his hands and scream about what an awesome play it was.I guess guys have been just throwing it into his hands for the last 5 years. Maybe it has something to do with his instincts?


Every opposing QB in the league accounted for Polumalu on every play, run or pass.
Ed Reed was good enough that the Ravens could get by on lesser CB's for years, even after McAlister's play declined.
Bob Sanders, when healthy, transformed the Colt's run D.And again, those guys would be getting more than Byrd if they entered FA. Not taking away from them, but do you think they might've benefited from having multiple pro bowl and future HOF players on their team? The only pro bowler that Byrd has played with over the last 5 years is Kyle Williams.



I'm all for spending money...said that before...and I'll say it again.

There are plenty of areas to upgrade for $10 million.

But if we sign Byrd for $10-11 million
and if we pass up a dominant TE;
or a playmaking WR;
or an upgrade to the OL

I'm going to blame some of the people in this room, and that.. I will not forgive.Fine, blame away. Unfortunately it will be impossible to prove that any player would've come here and what they would've signed for. It will still be fun though.




And how does overpaying for him stop this "culture change".

That's the Chris Kelsay logic. Well, if we're not going to spend it anyway, we might as well overpay some guy on our team..

That makes no sense to me.Except Chris is not; and has never been, a changer. I'm not advocating overspending on every player. I'm advocating on overspending for elite talent. We had to do it with Mario and I was ok with it. It's what you have to do when you're not a good team in a small market. If that overspending leads to an improved team and perpetual playoffs, then we won't have to overspend anymore.

If it doesn't then we're back where we started. No big loss.

[jdaltroy5]

Bwahahaha, Cookie already said it better than I could.

And don't put words like "Fantasy stats" and "you don't understand the game" in my mouth because I never said it, you did.Well you insinuate it. All the stats point to Byrd being elite. If you want to disregard all of that and say you can tell just by watching him, then that's exactly what junc would've said.


I guess you are still stinging from my likening you to NYJunc because you just pulled a "I know you are, but what am I" three weeks after the fact.Well it's a low blow. No one deserves to be compared to a Jets fan.


You will never convince me that Jairus Byrd should be the top paid safety in the league, If Parker and Byrd want to sit down and be reasonable and accept 7 million or so, fine. 10 is ridiculous as your assessment of Byrd's skills.Eric Weddle just got 8 mil a year, two years ago. And he had 6 TOs in his first 4 years before his contract.


P.S. Pro Bowl doesn't mean ****. Popularity contest and since it's played the week before the Super Bowl, the best players don't even play.And I'm sorry, but yes, the pro bowl does mean something. Sure, some guys make it there based on reputation, but for the most part, the most talented guys make the pro bowl.

If it's a popularity contest, why did the guy from small market Buffalo make it twice? Is he just randomly popular?

[pmoon6]

Well it's a low blow. No one deserves to be compared to a Jets fan.Sorry, but I figured a low blow wouldn't hurt you....considering Canadians have no testicles.

[jdaltroy5]

Sorry, but I figured a low blow wouldn't hurt you....considering Canadians have no testicles.
Then why do you have a bruise on your chin every time you leave Canada?

[jdaltroy5]

Ha, I just went to check out NFL.com and they have an article about the top safeties in the NFL.

Guess who is ranked "top shelf" behind only Earl Thomas?

I did not see Kerry Rhodes on the list.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000289608/article/earl-thomas-jairus-byrd-top-list-of-nfls-best-safeties

[YardRat]

Ha, I just went to check out NFL.com and they have an article about the top safeties in the NFL.

Guess who is ranked "top shelf" behind only Earl Thomas?

I did not see Kerry Rhodes on the list.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000289608/article/earl-thomas-jairus-byrd-top-list-of-nfls-best-safeties

He's undoubtedly the best safety not on the list...he should be paid #1 money :D

[feldspar]

Byrd will follow the money, and that much is obvious. He pretty much came out and said exactly that. He also washes his hands of any responsibility in the matter by saying it's between his agent and the Bills. Translation: I'm chasing the money. Not to make a judgment call, but that's exactly what is happening.

The Bills gotta tag him again, negotiate from that platform, and then either sign him relatively long-term or trade him. Byrd doesn't get to walk away scot-free on hobbled foot, nor are the Bills left without compensation. The outcome of that is not something I obsess over. I'd love to keep him. He's a good player.

[GvilleBills]

I'd love to keep him, pay him the top $. All goes in cycles.
If the Bills fail to resign him, contract parameters will become known soon enough. It'll be obvious whether he was low balled or just wanted out of town. He wants crazy $? Levitre/Poz type contracts...tag/trade my friend.

The only unforgivable sin: Byrd walks and Buffalo gets nothing. (A compensatory pick is a joke)

[Mr. Pink]

Byrd should have been paid elite safety money last season so it was done and taken care of.

[better days]

Byrd should have been paid elite safety money last season so it was done and taken care of.

He should have been, but he turned it down.

[Mr. Pink]

He should have been, but he turned it down.

He wasn't offered elite safety money.

[better days]

He wasn't offered elite safety money.

YES, he was.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Both Brandon & Parker said they were not going to negotiate through the press.

Any figures offered, are just some writers GUESS.


YES, he was.

lol

[better days]

lol

Care to elaborate?

It is NOT like the Bills don't give out BIG contracts.

People on this board complain about Mario's contract!

[cookie G]

Then you average out the what he's done over entire time. You don't just completely remove one season because it doesn't suit your argument.


I'm not going to pretend that he's laying guys out on every play. He's not. But I think his tackling is one of the things that he's really improved on since his rookie year. He generally doesn't miss a lot of tackles.


He's created 22 turnovers in 54 games since then.




And that's the most INTs Leonhard has had in his career. He generally gets 1 or 2 per year. If Leonhard had that pace at the beginning of his career and was just entering his prime, I'd want him to get paid as well.



I never said he was. That's why I said, if "those players" were in their prime and becoming FAs, they would be getting paid more than Byrd.

I guess guys have been just throwing it into his hands for the last 5 years. Maybe it has something to do with his instincts?

And again, those guys would be getting more than Byrd if they entered FA. Not taking away from them, but do you think they might've benefited from having multiple pro bowl and future HOF players on their team? The only pro bowler that Byrd has played with over the last 5 years is Kyle Williams.


Fine, blame away. Unfortunately it will be impossible to prove that any player would've come here and what they would've signed for. It will still be fun though.



Except Chris is not; and has never been, a changer. I'm not advocating overspending on every player. I'm advocating on overspending for elite talent. We had to do it with Mario and I was ok with it. It's what you have to do when you're not a good team in a small market. If that overspending leads to an improved team and perpetual playoffs, then we won't have to overspend anymore.

If it doesn't then we're back where we started. No big loss.

You waste your money your way, I'll waste my money my way.

But remember this...

if there is one constant in the Bills' playoff drought, it has been this team's unnatural, unhealthy obsession with the defensvie backfield, and the incredibly unbalanced allocation of assets to it. The oft repeated line throughout this drought is...it would be nice to get X player or fill X position..but we really HAD to have this shutdown corner/safety who could cover ground/turnover machine guy...

Heard it, seen it, been there, done that...and talk about the draft by Halloween every year.

So...I forego the 3 ints per year (maybe, maybe not, Leonhard already has that many). What I lose there, I make up in long TD runs, as the safety I'll be "stuck with" might not give up a few long TD runs due to fear of physical contact. Instead, I'll build in OTHER areas of the team. There is already a good start for once and building on it

Without the 10-12 million a year I'll be spending on 3 ints in the season, I'll buy a good RT and a decent guard. For that money I'll get quality for a change, and not have to talk about how some UDFA who is on his third team is REALLY better than people give him credit for. In other words, I'll buy quality. (OF course, if I can get Jimmy Graham for that price, I'll do it..eagerly...willingly and without much thought).

But buying a good RT and decent guard (or vice versa) serves two purposes...

first, it gives my young QB a little more time to find his receivers... not a bad idea, considering the new talent in the receiving corps. ;

second, it gives my RB with breakaway speed a chance to get into the open field. I've seen what he can do when he gets there...and giving him the best opportunity to get there is a must, not just a pleasant thought.

If I'm lucky enough to do a tag and trade for..say a 2nd round pick...so much the better. I can use that on a good TE, or god forbid...another safety.

But what I saw earlier in the year with Leonhard makes me realize that I'm not losing as much as people are putting on. When the pass game was getting beat, it wasn't him that was getting beat. If not Leonhard, I can probably find another decent one in the 2 million a year range.

In the end...my team will be better, quite possibly much better.

Yours will be no different.

I'm all in favor of a culture change.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Care to elaborate?

It is NOT like the Bills don't give out BIG contracts.

People on this board complain about Mario's contract!

When people claim he was lowballed, you spin it as some writers GUESS. Yet you are comfortable claiming that he was actually offered an elite salary based on the exact same things.

[YardRat]

Byrd should have been paid elite safety money last season so it was done and taken care of.

Elite = perennial Pro Bowler, which Byrd is not.
Elite = game-changer, which Byrd is not.
Elite = potential HOFer, which Byrd is not.
Elite = the best at your position, which Byrd is not.

He's a top 5 safety, worth top 5 money. Anything more than that is Byrd and his agent over-valuing his worth.

[Mr. Pink]

Elite = perennial Pro Bowler, which Byrd is not.
Elite = game-changer, which Byrd is not.
Elite = potential HOFer, which Byrd is not.
Elite = the best at your position, which Byrd is not.

He's a top 5 safety, worth top 5 money. Anything more than that is Byrd and his agent over-valuing his worth.

Elite money = being at or near the top of your position when in a contract year.

So while Byrd should have been the top paid safety in football this season, someone next year would likely surpass him. That's how contracts work. Instead, the organization either delayed that process for themselves or is going to find Byrd not on the roster next year.

I disagree that he's not a game changer. Individually last week he put up one of those type of performances, a sack and 2 INTs. Perennial probowler? 2 times in 4 seasons. Potential HOFer? Way too early to tell. He's definitely one of the top 3 safeties in the NFL right now.

[better days]

When people claim he was lowballed, you spin it as some writers GUESS. Yet you are comfortable claiming that he was actually offered an elite salary based on the exact same things.

No, when I claim he was offered an elite salary, I am basing it on what Brandon said.

Brandon said: "We made a very aggressive offer." I don't see how a very aggressive offer could be anything less than elite money. Less than that & it is NOT an aggressive offer at all.

[Jan Reimers]

I don't understand any of this 7 page debate. Having more cap room doesn't win games; showing the player or his agent that we are not going to capitulate to their demands doesn't win games; debating about exactly how much a player is worth or his elite/semi-elite status doesn't win games.

Good players win games. Byrd is one of the best players on our team, and one of the best safeties in this league. We are a much better team with him than with another gaping hole, which is exactly what we got for letting Levitre walk. This will be our 14th year without the playoffs. We need players, not constant cap room and hole-filling if we are to ever see a playoff game again.

Pay him, for Heaven's sake, and stop worrying whether it's a million or two higher than he "deserves" - whatever to Hell that is. We need to KEEP our good players, and be judicious about paying our or other teams' mediocrities.

[YardRat]

I don't understand any of this 7 page debate. Having more cap room doesn't win games; showing the player or his agent that we are not going to capitulate to their demands doesn't win games; debating about exactly how much a player is worth or his elite/semi-elite status doesn't win games.

Good players win games. Byrd is one of the best players on our team, and one of the best safeties in this league. We are a much better team with him than with another gaping hole, which is exactly what we got for letting Levitre walk. This will be our 14th year without the playoffs. We need players, not constant cap room and hole-filling if we are to ever see a playoff game again.

Pay him, for Heaven's sake, and stop worrying whether it's a million or two higher than he "deserves" - whatever to Hell that is. We need to KEEP our good players, and be judicious about paying our or other teams' mediocrities.

Right there is the issue...there is no evidence to support the 'we are better with him, and worse without him' argument to validate paying him top dollar. None.

I'd be more than happy to let Byrd walk, go with the safeties we have right now plus a mid-round project or vet FA, and spend Byrd's money on two players at positions that need upgrading.

Gross loss = negligible, gross gain could be huge, net gain = a better team, overall.

I don't understand why people can't grasp it's not what you spend, it's how you spend it, and maximizing your return. Unless Byrd starts consistently playing like a difference-maker, than his return hasn't proven to be worth the investment he's looking for.

[psubills62]

I find this pretty amusing. I said a long time ago that these things tend to blow over. I still don't think Byrd will sign here, but people sure did overreact back when the stalemate was happening.

In my opinion, Byrd is worth top money. He creates turnovers, and those are one of the most important things in football for a defense.

However, at the same time, I understand locking up certain players/positions for lesser money. A lot of successful teams actually let players go in free agency (Packers, Patriots, etc.), and lock up the ones who don't demand top of the line deals. Mainly because those teams are good enough at drafting to replace those players. We aren't there yet, but that is clearly the direction we need to go.

We'll have to see what happens. Hope he ends up re-signing.

[jdaltroy5]

Right there is the issue...there is no evidence to support the 'we are better with him, and worse without him' argument to validate paying him top dollar. None.

I'd be more than happy to let Byrd walk, go with the safeties we have right now plus a mid-round project or vet FA, and spend Byrd's money on two players at positions that need upgrading.

Gross loss = negligible, gross gain could be huge, net gain = a better team, overall.

I don't understand why people can't grasp it's not what you spend, it's how you spend it, and maximizing your return. Unless Byrd starts consistently playing like a difference-maker, than his return hasn't proven to be worth the investment he's looking for.Your qualifications for "game changing" are ridiculous. You want the guy to make turnovers every game that directly lead to our wins.

He's good for a turnover every other game. What more do you want? Do you want him to return it for the game winner too?

Name one defensive player in the history of the NFL that lives up to your qualifications.

[YardRat]

A pretty inauspicious first half for Byrd today. A couple of nice tackles on White after a catch. To be fair, it appeared he spent most of the half in cover 1, and it's harder to make plays in a safety valve position, especially when the front seven was getting to Ryan quick enough to prevent any deep attempts. One could argue, however, that even from deep center an 'elite' safety would have at least been able to make an attempt at the ball carrier on both TD runs.

[jdaltroy5]

You waste your money your way, I'll waste my money my way.

But remember this...

if there is one constant in the Bills' playoff drought, it has been this team's unnatural, unhealthy obsession with the defensvie backfield, and the incredibly unbalanced allocation of assets to it. The oft repeated line throughout this drought is...it would be nice to get X player or fill X position..but we really HAD to have this shutdown corner/safety who could cover ground/turnover machine guy...

Heard it, seen it, been there, done that...and talk about the draft by Halloween every year.

So...I forego the 3 ints per year (maybe, maybe not, Leonhard already has that many). What I lose there, I make up in long TD runs, as the safety I'll be "stuck with" might not give up a few long TD runs due to fear of physical contact. Instead, I'll build in OTHER areas of the team. There is already a good start for once and building on it

Without the 10-12 million a year I'll be spending on 3 ints in the season, I'll buy a good RT and a decent guard. For that money I'll get quality for a change, and not have to talk about how some UDFA who is on his third team is REALLY better than people give him credit for. In other words, I'll buy quality. (OF course, if I can get Jimmy Graham for that price, I'll do it..eagerly...willingly and without much thought).

But buying a good RT and decent guard (or vice versa) serves two purposes...

first, it gives my young QB a little more time to find his receivers... not a bad idea, considering the new talent in the receiving corps. ;

second, it gives my RB with breakaway speed a chance to get into the open field. I've seen what he can do when he gets there...and giving him the best opportunity to get there is a must, not just a pleasant thought.

If I'm lucky enough to do a tag and trade for..say a 2nd round pick...so much the better. I can use that on a good TE, or god forbid...another safety.

But what I saw earlier in the year with Leonhard makes me realize that I'm not losing as much as people are putting on. When the pass game was getting beat, it wasn't him that was getting beat. If not Leonhard, I can probably find another decent one in the 2 million a year range.

In the end...my team will be better, quite possibly much better.

Yours will be no different.

I'm all in favor of a culture change.The difference is that in the past, we have loaded up the backfield at the expense of other parts of the defense.

Now that we have a good DL, we have the opportunity to make the defense even better by keeping good players and adding to it through the draft.

Our other option is to take that money and go overpay for another elite player in FA. That's even if they want to come here.

So we can spend that money on an elite player that is willing to play here OR we can spend that money on an elite hypothetical player that may or may not come here.

One in the hand vs. two in the bush is worth the risk sometimes.

One in the hand vs. one in the bush doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[YardRat]

Your qualifications for "game changing" are ridiculous. You want the guy to make turnovers every game that directly lead to our wins.

He's good for a turnover every other game. What more do you want? Do you want him to return it for the game winner too?

Name one defensive player in the history of the NFL that lives up to your qualifications.

Turnovers aren't the entire portfolio of an 'elite' player. Being in position to knock balls away, or even prevent the ball from being thrown at all. Run support. Not dragging ass behind two runners on TD jaunts when your responsibility is last man standing. Big plays at big times, even if those plays aren't int's or ff's. Little things like that, that separate 'elite' from 'really good' or 'average'.

[jdaltroy5]

Turnovers aren't the entire portfolio of an 'elite' player. Being in position to knock balls away, or even prevent the ball from being thrown at all. Run support. Not dragging ass behind two runners on TD jaunts when your responsibility is last man standing. Big plays at big times, even if those plays aren't int's or ff's. Little things like that, that separate 'elite' from 'really good' or 'average'.
Excellent. So you do realize what Byrd's advanced stats are right?

His QBR when throwing in his direction, passes defended, total yards given up etc...?

[YardRat]

Yeah, I'm thinking an elite safety doesn't just bounce off of Douglas when he's 'laying the wood' on the TD that was called back either.

[jdaltroy5]

Yeah, I'm thinking an elite safety doesn't just bounce off of Douglas when he's 'laying the wood' on the TD that was called back either.Yes, based on that one play, he definitely isn't elite.

[Crisis]

based off all the times I've seen Ed Reed get hurdled I guess he's not elite either

[Novacane]

Byrd is a ball hawk no doubt. He's just not very physical which keeps him from being elite IMO

[Jan Reimers]

Oh Hell, let's let him walk like we did Levitre. We are going nowhere anyway. We can't win or make the playoffs, so maybe we can lead the league in cap space, or pissed off fans, or ex-players whom we have made happy by sending to organizations that are actually dedicated to winning.

[YardRat]

Part of being 'dedicated to winning' is not breaking bank on one or two players that are asking for contracts above their level of performance on the field.

Byrd did more to harm his 'elite' status yesterday than he did to help it...no positive plays to speak of, except for a couple of tackles after the catch over the middle of the field, which any safety should be able to pull off.

He got roasted on both TD runs. An elite safety would have read and recognized and put himself in position to at least attempt a tackle, or have the closing speed to make up for not reacting quicker. He got bounced by Douglas, and moved to double the wrong receiver on TG's TD.

To be fair, not a lot a FS can do from a cover1 position, and I think Pettine showed a lot of confidence in Byrd by posting him there for most of the game, but he had a few opportunities to make plays (not necessarily turnovers) and he didn't.

[jdaltroy5]

Part of being 'dedicated to winning' is not breaking bank on one or two players that are asking for contracts above their level of performance on the field.

Byrd did more to harm his 'elite' status yesterday than he did to help it...no positive plays to speak of, except for a couple of tackles after the catch over the middle of the field, which any safety should be able to pull off.

He got roasted on both TD runs. An elite safety would have read and recognized and put himself in position to at least attempt a tackle, or have the closing speed to make up for not reacting quicker. He got bounced by Douglas, and moved to double the wrong receiver on TG's TD.

To be fair, not a lot a FS can do from a cover1 position, and I think Pettine showed a lot of confidence in Byrd by posting him there for most of the game, but he had a few opportunities to make plays (not necessarily turnovers) and he didn't.Jesus, now you're blaming a deep cover safety for allowing a TD run to the OTHER side of the field?

I'll agree that the one TD run was a poor tackle on his part though. It looked like he really tried to nail the guy so he could force a fumble or something. He should've just wrapped him up (or hit him like a girl as some of you call it) like he always does.

[YardRat]

Jesus, now you're blaming a deep cover safety for allowing a TD run to the OTHER side of the field?

I'll agree that the one TD run was a poor tackle on his part though. It looked like he really tried to nail the guy so he could force a fumble or something. He should've just wrapped him up (or hit him like a girl as some of you call it) like he always does.

He was in cover1...there is no other side of the field, unless he mis-read the play and started in the wrong direction.

[jdaltroy5]

He was in cover1...there is no other side of the field, unless he mis-read the play and started in the wrong direction.I meant "other" in the sense that it wasn't like he ran right at Byrd.

I'd like to see the all-22 on that one to see where he started from.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I meant "other" in the sense that it wasn't like he ran right at Byrd.

I'd like to see the all-22 on that one to see where he started from.

Are you guys referring to this?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000291400/RB-Smith-38-yd-run-TD

Byrd is on the opposite side almost to the numbers. When the play starts, the wideout (Douglas?) fakes as if he's going to go out on a pass route and Byrd bites on it, dropping further to that side and taking him out of the play.

[kingJofNYC]

Lots of cognitive dissonance up in here.

Byrd is gone, you don't have to play mental gymnastics to discredit his value in order to justify his eventual departure. "We don't need him anyway, he costs too much and does nothing! We can tie up the money in other players....."

He's been a stand up guy, just wants to earn more money, not going to hate on him for it or discredit what he's done. Enjoy watching Searcy, A.Williams next year, I'm sure you'll have a ball!

[Meathead]

told ya byrd sucked

[jdaltroy5]

Are you guys referring to this?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000291400/RB-Smith-38-yd-run-TD

Byrd is on the opposite side almost to the numbers. When the play starts, the wideout (Douglas?) fakes as if he's going to go out on a pass route and Byrd bites on it, dropping further to that side and taking him out of the play.
Yes that's the play. Byrd actually is on the other side of the field. Kiko filled the far gap and Aaron Williams just followed him right into it rather than filling the closer gap.

Byrd actually did come from the OTHER side of the field.

Some of these guys will just look for any reason to discredit him.

[gr8slayer]

I'd love to re-sign the guy, but I wouldn't overpay. I have a feeling that another team will offer him more than the Bills will be willing to anyway.

[pmoon6]

What's all this discredit bull****? Most are saying that Byrd isn't the best safety in the league, therefore his demand to be paid as such has no merit..

Too bad most of the guys using the word discredit are the same crybabies that constantly whine about the front office because they haven't had the chance to rub their pathetic peckers on the TV screen for a number of years.

Boo ****ing hoo, *****es.

[YardRat]

Not a good first half for Byrd.

Got suckered by a fake reverse, and caught out of position yet again on a long TD run.
An interception, but once again thrown right at him. Too bad we can't play rookie QB's every week so Byrd can pile up the gimme's. Instincts my ass, he didn't even have to move from the place the play design stuck him.
A costly roughing the passer penalty on third down.

Hopefully the 'elite' version shows up pretty soon.

[BillsFever21]

Of course YardRat needs to find another reason to discredit an INT for Byrd. It's just another lucky one like all of the other 20+ INT's in his career. Only Asante Samuel has more INT's then Byrd since he entered the league. It's very nice of all of these QB's over the past 5 years giving Byrd INT's to pad his stats.

[jdaltroy5]

Not a good first half for Byrd.

Got suckered by a fake reverse, and caught out of position yet again on a long TD run.
An interception, but once again thrown right at him. Too bad we can't play rookie QB's every week so Byrd can pile up the gimme's. Instincts my ass, he didn't even have to move from the place the play design stuck him.
A costly roughing the passer penalty on third down.

Hopefully the 'elite' version shows up pretty soon.I love how you always use the excuse that it's thrown right at him.

It's funny that it's always thrown right at him and no one else.

[YardRat]

Of course YardRat needs to find another reason to discredit an INT for Byrd. It's just another lucky one like all of the other 20+ INT's in his career. Only Asante Samuel has more INT's then Byrd since he entered the league. It's very nice of all of these QB's over the past 5 years giving Byrd INT's to pad his stats.


I love how you always use the excuse that it's thrown right at him.

It's funny that it's always thrown right at him and no one else.

Look at the replays...he doesn't even have to move from his original position, barely. Are you disputing that?

[EDS]

What's all this discredit bull****? Most are saying that Byrd isn't the best safety in the league, therefore his demand to be paid as such has no merit..

Too bad most of the guys using the word discredit are the same crybabies that constantly whine about the front office because they haven't had the chance to rub their pathetic peckers on the TV screen for a number of years.

Boo ****ing hoo, *****es.

Isn't the whole argument about Jarius not being the absolute BEST safety and thus not worthy of the top contract at the position a straw man agument? Isn't who the top paid safety at a given point more about which top 5-10 safety has the newest contract?

[YardRat]

Isn't the whole argument about Jarius not being the absolute BEST safety and thus not worthy of the top contract at the position a straw man agument? Isn't who the top paid safety at a given point more about which top 5-10 safety has the newest contract?

No, that's a bull**** argument from the standpoint of labor.

[YardRat]

"Well, five years from now top safeties are going to be getting paid 15mil per season, so that's what I should get now". Bull****.

[EDS]

No, that's a bull**** argument from the standpoint of labor.

So you do not believe the average value of the contracts is increasing? It seems hard to argue that point, but I would like to hear your views.

[BillsFever21]

No, that's a bull**** argument from the standpoint of labor.

If that's the case then Jerry Rice should still be the highest paid WR of all time. Lawrence Taylor should still been the highest paid LB of all time. Barry Sanders should still be one of the highest paid RB's of all time.

With that argument then Kevin Kolb must be better then Jim Kelly. He made more money then Kelly ever did.

[BillsFever21]

Look at the replays...he doesn't even have to move from his original position, barely. Are you disputing that?


How many INT's do players have to move very much? It's not like the guys are running from one sideline to the other to jump 6 feet in the air and intercept the ball. Some guys put themselves in position and can catch it. Others can't and/or they drop the ball. Byrd isn't one of them.

[YardRat]

So you do not believe the average value of the contracts is increasing? It seems hard to argue that point, but I would like to hear your views.

Of course it is, but any management that negotiates terms of a contract based on future market values and not current deserves to get fleeced.


If that's the case then Jerry Rice should still be the highest paid WR of all time. Lawrence Taylor should still been the highest paid LB of all time. Barry Sanders should still be one of the highest paid RB's of all time.

With that argument then Kevin Kolb must be better then Jim Kelly. He made more money then Kelly ever did.

I don't think you understand.

[BillsFever21]

"Well, five years from now top safeties are going to be getting paid 15mil per season, so that's what I should get now". Bull****.

No he's just asking to be paid as one of the top safeties TODAY and not what they will be paid 5 years from now. Goldson received top 3 money and Byrd has been better then him and also two years younger. In a couple years after guys like Earl Thomas, etc are up for free agency they will be the highest paid. Same as any other position.

You talk like no player should never get as much or more as the best player in the game. If that was the case then very few players would ever be getting paid more.

[coastal]

What's all this discredit bull****? Most are saying that Byrd isn't the best safety in the league, therefore his demand to be paid as such has no merit..

Too bad most of the guys using the word discredit are the same crybabies that constantly whine about the front office because they haven't had the chance to rub their pathetic peckers on the TV screen for a number of years.

Boo ****ing hoo, *****es.
You're bat **** crazy... but I lol'd.

[YardRat]

How many INT's do players have to move very much? It's not like the guys are running from one sideline to the other to jump 6 feet in the air and intercept the ball. Some guys put themselves in position and can catch it. Others can't and/or they drop the ball. Byrd isn't one of them.

Watch the replay of Polamalu's int against the Dolphins today, and compare it to Byrd's. Troy starts out in the box, drifts back into the middle, reads the play and jumps the route. Byrd basically stands in the same place the formation put him, and Glennon throws the ball right at him. That's the difference between 'elite' and pretty good.

[jdaltroy5]

Look at the replays...he doesn't even have to move from his original position, barely. Are you disputing that?
Who cares if he barely moved? He was reading the QB the entire time and didn't have to move.

Would it have satisfied you if he ran around for a bit before he intercepted it?

[YardRat]

No he's just asking to be paid as one of the top safeties TODAY and not what they will be paid 5 years from now. Goldson received top 3 money and Byrd has been better then him and also two years younger. In a couple years after guys like Earl Thomas, etc are up for free agency they will be the highest paid. Same as any other position.

You talk like no player should never get as much or more as the best player in the game. If that was the case then very few players would ever be getting paid more.

Based on reports, he was offered a contract worth what one of the best safeties would make. Whether or not Goldson or Byrd is the better safety is pretty debatable. I'm not talking about all players...I'm talking about this specific player. Byrd isn't the best safety in the game today. IMO, he isn't going to be the best safety in the game 2, 3 or 5 years down the road. Sign a contract for current market value, or hit the road. Even if Byrd did sign a top 5 contract, and in two seasons actually did become the best safety in the league, he can hold out and demand to renegotiate the top contract at that time.

[jdaltroy5]

Watch the replay of Polamalu's int against the Dolphins today, and compare it to Byrd's. Troy starts out in the box, drifts back into the middle, reads the play and jumps the route. Byrd basically stands in the same place the formation put him, and Glennon throws the ball right at him. That's the difference between 'elite' and pretty good.
That's ridiculous. Byrd was covering his man and reading the QB. Even if the ball wasn't thrown right at him, he would've jumped the route and picked it off.

Do you think Byrd is just lucky and gets the ball thrown right at him more than any other safety in the league in the last 5 years?

[YardRat]

Who cares if he barely moved? He was reading the QB the entire time and didn't have to move.

Would it have satisfied you if he ran around for a bit before he intercepted it?

Any safety could have made that play. That's the point. If Byrd wants to be paid elite money, he has to show he's capable of making elite plays...not average ones. We can pay an average safety to make average plays.

[jdaltroy5]

Any safety could have made that play. That's the point. If Byrd wants to be paid elite money, he has to show he's capable of making elite plays...not average ones. We can pay an average safety to make average plays.So, what, should he have done a backflip or something before he caught it?

Who cares if the interceptions are ultra athletic or if they're thrown right at him? He has proven that he can consistently cause turnovers better than any safety in the league.

[YardRat]

That's ridiculous. Byrd was covering his man and reading the QB. Even if the ball wasn't thrown right at him, he would've jumped the route and picked it off.

Do you think Byrd is just lucky and gets the ball thrown right at him more than any other safety in the league in the last 5 years?

Part one is pure speculation on your part, especially considering he didn't have to jump anything because the WR pulled up short and Glennon threw it right at Byrd.

Part two, look at his picks this season. One against a rookie TB QB, thrown right at him. Two against a NYJ rookie QB, thrown right at him. The pick against the Steeler's was, admittedly, an elite play.
75% 'gimme' ratio is pretty high.

[jdaltroy5]

Part one is pure speculation on your part, especially considering he didn't have to jump anything because the WR pulled up short and Glennon threw it right at Byrd.

Part two, look at his picks this season. One against a rookie TB QB, thrown right at him. Two against a NYJ rookie QB, thrown right at him. The pick against the Steeler's was, admittedly, an elite play.
75% 'gimme' ratio is pretty high.Do you think that maybe he makes those "gimme plays" because he has elite instincts and knows where the QB is going to throw it?

And again, what difference does it make if they are elite plays or not? He has proven that he can consistently cause turnovers. A spectacular interception counts the same as one that is thrown right at him.

[BillsFever21]

Part one is pure speculation on your part, especially considering he didn't have to jump anything because the WR pulled up short and Glennon threw it right at Byrd.

Part two, look at his picks this season. One against a rookie TB QB, thrown right at him. Two against a NYJ rookie QB, thrown right at him. The pick against the Steeler's was, admittedly, an elite play.
75% 'gimme' ratio is pretty high.

Yeah them other 20 INT's from the past 4 years doesn't count either. :rofl:

[GingerP]

Any safety could have made that play. That's the point. If Byrd wants to be paid elite money, he has to show he's capable of making elite plays...not average ones. We can pay an average safety to make average plays.

I wonder how many "average" safeties have 22 interceptions, 33 passes defensed, 3 sacks, 10 forced fumbles and 2 TDs since 2009. I wonder how many of those plays you think Byrd just lucked into.

[BillsFever21]

I wonder how many "average" safeties have 22 interceptions, 33 passes defensed, 3 sacks, 10 forced fumbles and 2 TDs since 2009. I wonder how many of those plays you think Byrd just lucked into.

He lucked into 68 of them plays. Any safety would've made them.

[cookie G]

I love how you always use the excuse that it's thrown right at him.

It's funny that it's always thrown right at him and no one else.

Well, he did take 4 steps on this one.

For his last 3 Ints, he's taken a total of 6 steps total.

Again...its nice that he made these...but what's so special about it? That's Yardie's point.

I mean, a centerfielder in baseball gets a pop up hit to him, he takes a step to his right and catches it.. Does that put him in the Golden Glove contention?

If Byrd had been a WR in these past three INTS...it would have been considered an easy pitch and catch play...if any of them were dropped, people would have been calling for him to be cut.

I just don't know how these qualify him for greatness, I really don't. I concede that Billsfever had a better vantage point than me, because he was watching the game on the radio...but I saw what I saw.

Gilmore actually had a good INT today. He covered his guy deep (for once), turned his body in the air to get in position and made the INT with the WR draped on him (from what it looked to me at least).

I'm sorry, Mark freaking Kelso had more INT's in his first 4 years than Byrd. I liked Mark Kelso, I thought he was a good player, but no one in their right mind would have built their franchise around him. No one would have considered making him the 2nd highest paid player on the team. And frankly...he was better in run support.

There's other talent out there if someone is willing to find it.. rather than prolonging this stupid obsession with DB's...which has gotten this team no where in 14 years.

They need 2 OL badly..
They could really use a TE
They may need another QB, or at least a back up QB..

[jdaltroy5]

Well, he did take 4 steps on this one.

For his last 3 Ints, he's taken a total of 6 steps total.

Again...its nice that he made these...but what's so special about it? That's Yardie's point.

I mean, a centerfielder in baseball gets a pop up hit to him, he takes a step to his right and catches it.. Does that put him in the Golden Glove contention?

If Byrd had been a WR in these past three INTS...it would have been considered an easy pitch and catch play...if any of them were dropped, people would have been calling for him to be cut.

I just don't know how these qualify him for greatness, I really don't. I concede that Billsfever had a better vantage point than me, because he was watching the game on the radio...but I saw what I saw.

Gilmore actually had a good INT today. He covered his guy deep (for once), turned his body in the air to get in position and made the INT with the WR draped on him (from what it looked to me at least).

I'm sorry, Mark freaking Kelso had more INT's in his first 4 years than Byrd. I liked Mark Kelso, I thought he was a good player, but no one in their right mind would have built their franchise around him. No one would have considered making him the 2nd highest paid player on the team. And frankly...he was better in run support.

There's other talent out there if someone is willing to find it.. rather than prolonging this stupid obsession with DB's...which has gotten this team no where in 14 years.

They need 2 OL badly..
They could really use a TE
They may need another QB, or at least a back up QB..You guys are willing to say anything to discredit him.

"Well if you take away his best season, don't count his forced fumbles, and only count his spectacular INTs, he only has 1 INT per year! Do you want to pay a guy 9 mil a year for 1 pick a year?! Huh, do ya?!"

I could not care less if he is standing there with his hands on his hips and the running back hands the ball into his gut. The fact of the matter is that he can consistently cause turnovers. Better than just about anybody in the league for that matter.

They DO need 2 OL, TE, and QB. They could probably use another LB and WR as well. That's a lot of holes.

Why add FS to that list?

[BillsFever21]

Well, he did take 4 steps on this one.

I concede that Billsfever had a better vantage point than me, because he was watching the game on the radio...but I saw what I saw.



Yeah you did have a better vantage point for the game today since I took the offer of making extra money today and missed the game(thank god after what happened). I think we have all seen his vantage point for the past 4.5 seasons though. Players just don't consistently "luck" into interceptions and FF's for 4.5 years. There's a reason why no other safety in the NFL has as many INT's and forced turnovers as him since he joined the league.

[kingJofNYC]

YardRat, how come you weren't against resigning Eric Wood?

He's made zero Pro Bowls, missed more games than Byrd ever has, and isn't a top 5 player at his position yet he's being paid top 5 money. Thoughts? Especially since Eric Wood has been trash this season.

[Mr. Pink]

For those who are against resigning Byrd, arguably the best player on the entire team, you've gotten what you deserve the past 14 years. Because it's status quo around OBD to let the talent go and try replacing them.

[BillsFever21]

For those who are against resigning Byrd, arguably the best player on the entire team, you've gotten what you deserve the past 14 years. Because it's status quo around OBD to let the talent go and try replacing them.

Because they would rather stare at all of our salary cap room every season and dream of the money we can spend on top players we won't sign. They would rather have two mediocre players that don't make a huge difference making 4 million each a year rather then pay one great player 8 million. That's how the Bills have been doing it for years. That must mean they enjoy the way we've built our team for the past 14 years.

[Mr. Pink]

Because they would rather stare at all of our salary cap room every season and dream of the money we can spend on top players we won't sign. They would rather have two mediocre players that don't make a huge difference making 4 million each a year rather then pay one great player 8 million. That's how the Bills have been doing it for years. That must mean they enjoy the way we've built our team for the past 14 years.

It's sickening the mentality. Run London Fletcher out of town so we can waste a high pick on POS meanwhile we coulda kept him around til now replacing him with Kiko and using that pick on someone else. Run McGahee out of town so we can replace him with Lynch then run him out of town to draft Spiller...even though Fred Jackson could have been starting eliminating drafting Lynch or Spiller. Run Clements out of town so we can draft McKelvin then Gilmore when McKelvin didn't work out as planned. Let Parrish go to draft Graham who is even more useless not that Parrish was any good but still. Run Fitz out so we can reach in a bad QB class for Manuel. Run Pat Williams out of town so we can eventually replace him with Dareus and yeah that worked well. Run Whitner out of town - which I don't disagree with and replace him with well no one. Draft JP so Bledsoe can be run out of town. And on and on and on. This organization creates holes faster than it replaces them and does nothing to really upgrade anyone while doing it, it's a bunch of lateral moves which is why this is perennially a 5-6 win football team.

Is it any wonder this franchise has been crap for 14 years?

[BillsFever21]

It's sickening the mentality. Run London Fletcher out of town so we can waste a high pick on POS meanwhile we coulda kept him around til now replacing him with Kiko and using that pick on someone else. Run McGahee out of town so we can replace him with Lynch then run him out of town to draft Spiller...even though Fred Jackson could have been starting eliminating drafting Lynch or Spiller. Run Clements out of town so we can draft McKelvin then Gilmore when McKelvin didn't work out as planned. Let Parrish go to draft Graham who is even more useless not that Parrish was any good but still. Run Fitz out so we can reach in a bad QB class for Manuel. Run Pat Williams out of town so we can eventually replace him with Dareus and yeah that worked well. Run Whitner out of town - which I don't disagree with and replace him with well no one. Draft JP so Bledsoe can be run out of town. And on and on and on. This organization creates holes faster than it replaces them and does nothing to really upgrade anyone while doing it, it's a bunch of lateral moves which is why this is perennially a 5-6 win football team.

Is it any wonder this franchise has been crap for 14 years?

It kind of reminds me of an analogy that many people do with automobiles. Instead of buying a reliable car for 15k(cause they say they can't afford it) they will buy a clunker for $1,500 and put another $1,500+ into the car throughout the year. During that year it's broken down a combined month or two and sitting on blocks until they get the money to repair it.

A year later they will repeat the same thing and do it all over again. In the end they are spending almost or just as much money a year on clunkers after all the repairs as they would've making payments on a new(er) reliable car. Instead of having a reliable car during that time they are driving around a clunker that is sitting in their driveway on bricks most of each year. The Bills are driving around clunkers instead of putting a reliable product on the field every year.

[cookie G]

You guys are willing to say anything to discredit him.

"Well if you take away his best season, don't count his forced fumbles, and only count his spectacular INTs, he only has 1 INT per year! Do you want to pay a guy 9 mil a year for 1 pick a year?! Huh, do ya?!"

It isn't a matter of discrediting him, its a matter of not joining whack off party if he takes two steps and catches the ball.

I'm sorry...it is what it is.



I could not care less if he is standing there with his hands on his hips and the running back hands the ball into his gut. The fact of the matter is that he can consistently cause turnovers. Better than just about anybody in the league for that matter.

Again..no better than Kelso. Would you have made Kelso the 2nd highest paid player on the Bills?




They DO need 2 OL, TE, and QB. They could probably use another LB and WR as well. That's a lot of holes.

Why add FS to that list?

And the OL, TE and QB positions don't get filled because "we had to re-sign Byrd".

Sorry, that's the way it is. That's the way it has been.

And probably..the way it will be.

We won't make the playoffs, of course...but at least we get to feed our DB fetish.

[BillsFever21]

We haven't brought in any legit OL, TE's, QB's or many other position upgrades before Byrd needed signed. What difference does it make? But hey we will have another 10-15 million in unused cap space to cheer about.

We haven't been a lousy team for 14 years because we keep signing high priced players and letting other positions go because of it. We've been a lousy team for years because we don't sign good players and would rather use draft picks or cheap free agent alternatives instead.

Instead of building a team and filling/upgrading holes we just keep creating holes we didn't have. That's the way it has been and probably will continue to be like. It's worked so well why stop now?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm sorry, Mark freaking Kelso had more INT's in his first 4 years than Byrd. I liked Mark Kelso, I thought he was a good player, but no one in their right mind would have built their franchise around him. No one would have considered making him the 2nd highest paid player on the team. And frankly...he was better in run support.

Kelso played in a completely different era of football, where the rules were not as heavily slanted towards the pass offense. For example, in 1988 (Kelso's 7 INT year), teams threw an int on 4% of their passes - for roughly 20 a season. In 2012, that was down to 2.6% - roughly 15 a season. In 1988, there were 22 defenders with 5 or more picks. In 2012 that was down to 10 guys.

INTs are harder to come by in this day and age.

[BillsFever21]

Kelso played in a completely different era of football, where the rules were not as heavily slanted towards the pass offense. For example, in 1988 (Kelso's 7 INT year), teams threw an int on 4% of their passes - for roughly 20 a season. In 2012, that was down to 2.6% - roughly 15 a season. In 1988, there were 22 defenders with 5 or more picks. In 2012 that was down to 10 guys.

INTs are harder to come by in this day and age.

Do you mean the game has changed a lot since then? Does that mean Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't as good as Jim Kelly because his top yards and TD totals are about the same as Kelly in his BEST years? I'm glad somebody clarified that for me.

[cookie G]

Kelso played in a completely different era of football, where the rules were not as heavily slanted towards the pass offense. For example, in 1988 (Kelso's 7 INT year), teams threw an int on 4% of their passes - for roughly 20 a season. In 2012, that was down to 2.6% - roughly 15 a season. In 1988, there were 22 defenders with 5 or more picks. In 2012 that was down to 10 guys.

INTs are harder to come by in this day and age.


Uh huh...

And in 2009 there were 22 players with 5 or more interceptioins.

In 2010, there were 19.

Try again.

Probably best that people feel that way though..some on here would start comparing him to Ronnie Lott.

[cookie G]

We haven't brought in any legit OL, TE's, QB's or many other position upgrades before Byrd needed signed. What difference does it make? But hey we will have another 10-15 million in unused cap space to cheer about.

We haven't been a lousy team for 14 years because we keep signing high priced players and letting other positions go because of it. We've been a lousy team for years because we don't sign good players and would rather use draft picks or cheap free agent alternatives instead.

Instead of building a team and filling/upgrading holes we just keep creating holes we didn't have. That's the way it has been and probably will continue to be like. It's worked so well why stop now?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

"We're not going to spend it anyways..so we might as well spend it on Byrd".

And you'll be the first to say...we couldn't sign X WR or Y OL...because we had to sign BYRD!

We'll continue to lose...BUT WE HAVE BYRD!


Maybe...just maybe...if we quit overvaluing the defensive backfield and act like it is the only position worth investing in...we could actually fill areas on OTHER areas on the team...we could actually get somewhere.

God...a crazy concept, I know.

But then, this is a team that drafts a Whitner over a Ngata and a Mclovin over a Flacco...

[jdaltroy5]

It isn't a matter of discrediting him, its a matter of not joining whack off party if he takes two steps and catches the ball.

I'm sorry...it is what it is.



Again..no better than Kelso. Would you have made Kelso the 2nd highest paid player on the Bills?To be honest, I was not a Bills fan in the early 90s, so I don't really know if Kelso was good or not. I looked up his stats and he had 23 turnovers in his first 5 years (not including his rookie year where he didn't play much). Byrd has 32 in his first 5 years.

That's better than Kelso. By a long shot.



And the OL, TE and QB positions don't get filled because "we had to re-sign Byrd". BS. What are we going to go out and sign a franchise QB in FA? And we were still 18 mil under the cap this year with Byrd's contract and we didn't go out and sign anybody in a position of need.

And anybody we DO sign in FA is going to have to overpaid anyway.


Sorry, that's the way it is. That's the way it has been.

And probably..the way it will be.

We won't make the playoffs, of course...but at least we get to feed our DB fetish.Now you're just cutting off the nose to spite the face. I understand the frustration with constantly taking DBs and ignoring other more important positions, but that doesn't mean that we should just let our talented DBs walk to atone for the mistakes in the past.

If we let him walk, we WILL be taking another FS with a high pick in the near future. All it will do is perpetuate the cycle.

[TacklingDummy]

Kelso was mostly known for his helmet.

[pmoon6]

Kelso suffered from the same shortcoming as Byrd. He was weak in run support, but he covered the deep middle well. One of the reasons the '90's Bills could be run on was because after Clarence Kay cut Conlan's knee in '91 and he wasn't the same player along with Leonard Smith getting hurt, we didn't have a good run support guy in the secondary.

[pmoon6]

You're bat **** crazy... but I lol'd.Well, you've known that for a long time.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Uh huh...

And in 2009 there were 22 players with 5 or more interceptioins.

In 2010, there were 19.

Try again.

In 2011 it was 11. In 2013 at the moment it's 4 with 3 games remaining. Hell, Byrd is sitting at 4 with 3 games left, two of which are against Henne and Tannehill. The leader only has 6. Byrd has a legitimate shot at the interception title this year, and he'll only appear in 10 games.

You throw out numbers from 2010, but what's happened since then? The expansion of the defenseless receiver rules and the corresponding instruction to err on the side of calling them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_season#Rule_changes) and the expansion of automatic replay review to every turnover without needing a coach's challenge.


Probably best that people feel that way though..some on here would start comparing him to Ronnie Lott.

I don't dispute Lott was better, but he played in a different era. Guys running around smashing people like he did get fined and penalized today. If you can find a replay, look at Pollard getting a 15 yarder for hitting Decker shoulder to shoulder. An obvious reputation call - even Nantz said he was "head hunting" when he clearly hit him low.

[The Jokeman]

In 2011 it was 11. In 2013 at the moment it's 4 with 3 games remaining. Hell, Byrd is sitting at 4 with 3 games left, two of which are against Henne and Tannehill. The leader only has 6. Byrd has a legitimate shot at the interception title this year, and he'll only appear in 10 games.

You throw out numbers from 2010, but what's happened since then? The expansion of the defenseless receiver rules and the corresponding instruction to err on the side of calling them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NFL_season#Rule_changes) and the expansion of automatic replay review to every turnover without needing a coach's challenge.



I don't dispute Lott was better, but he played in a different era. Guys running around smashing people like he did get fined and penalized today. If you can find a replay, look at Pollard getting a 15 yarder for hitting Decker shoulder to shoulder. An obvious reputation call - even Nantz said he was "head hunting" when he clearly hit him low.

and the guy leading the league in INTs is a LB (one I was calling for the Bills to sign this offseason btw). Yet your giving Byrd for less credit, as he's only appeared in 8 games this season.

[YardRat]

Jesus H. ****ing Christ...

[cookie G]

Jesus H. ****ing Christ...

The missed tackle on the TD? :)

I'm sorry...he's one of the worst run supporting safeties in the league. Mostly because he's afraid of contact.

But luckily...he gets 3-5 Ints a year and it is soooo much harder to get an INT than it was in the good old days.

You know..when an opposing QB would just run up to Kelso and hand him the ball.

[YardRat]

Aaron Williams is having a pretty 'elite'-type game...maybe he should ask for #1 money too.

[pmoon6]

Aaron Williams is having a pretty 'elite'-type game...maybe he should ask for #1 money too.I was thinking the same thing when Williams went out. Jimmy Leonhard made some good plays as well.

[YardRat]

If anybody can single out just one play that Byrd has made over the last few weeks that qualifies as 'elite', I'd be interesting to hear about it or see it. Just one.

Over that same span, there are several that indicate the opposite.

[stuckincincy]

The missed tackle on the TD? :)

I'm sorry...he's one of the worst run supporting safeties in the league. Mostly because he's afraid of contact.

But luckily...he gets 3-5 Ints a year and it is soooo much harder to get an INT than it was in the good old days.

You know..when an opposing QB would just run up to Kelso and hand him the ball.


I can't see tossing all this $ at safeties. With today's rules, their performance or lack of is so dependent on scheme and situation. You can't cover TEs these days, so I like a S that hits and has an eye towards the run.

For coverage - I pay CBs.

[kingJofNYC]

not sure why you keep bumping this thread.

we will not resign him, we don't throw big money at players unless it's a PR move to give the fanbase something to grasp at in a futile attempt to sell tickets. he's going to be paid as a top safety when he leaves, he's better than eric weddle. mario williams isn't an elite DE, we made him the highest paid player, I didn't see your outrage then, how come?

you see what you want to see.

[pmoon6]

not sure why you keep bumping this thread.

we will not resign him, we don't throw big money at players unless it's a PR move to give the fanbase something to grasp at in a futile attempt to sell tickets. he's going to be paid as a top safety when he leaves, he's better than eric weddle. mario williams isn't an elite DE, we made him the highest paid player, I didn't see your outrage then, how come?

you see what you want to see.Bull ****ing ****. Byrd was responsible for the first touchdown and got taken out of the play on another. That's a top safety?

I don't mind if he gets 7 or 8 million. 10? No way.

[kingJofNYC]

Bull ****ing ****. Byrd was responsible for the first touchdown and got taken out of the play on another. That's a top safety?

I don't mind if he gets 7 or 8 million. 10? No way.

so he made a couple of bad plays, guess that wipes away his entire career.

this is funny coming from you as well, considering how you give countless players that are legit scrubs the benefit of the doubt. is this where i call you a bad fan for not supporting our team, much like you do when someone criticizes EJ?

[pmoon6]

so he made a couple of bad plays, guess that wipes away his entire career.

this is funny coming from you as well, considering how you give countless players that are legit scrubs the benefit of the doubt. is this where i call you a bad fan for not supporting our team, much like you do when someone criticizes EJ?Byrd isn't a rookie. He also wants to be paid like he's the best. The best doesn't make plays like that. You guys act like he's Ronnie Lott, Troy Palomalu, and Paul Krause rolled into one. He's not.

BTW, Mario Williams has been a force this year. I guess you're seeing what you want to see as well.

[cookie G]

I can't see tossing all this $ at safeties. With today's rules, their performance or lack of is so dependent on scheme and situation. You can't cover TEs these days, so I like a S that hits and has an eye towards the run.

For coverage - I pay CBs.

There are some I would have...a Pomulalu or Reed in their primes were worth the money...he's not one of them.

[cookie G]

so he made a couple of bad plays, guess that wipes away his entire career.

this is funny coming from you as well, considering how you give countless players that are legit scrubs the benefit of the doubt. is this where i call you a bad fan for not supporting our team, much like you do when someone criticizes EJ?

I do like how every time he misses a tackle...it is fluffed off as "just a bad play" ..

Since Byrd has been here...the Bills have been towards the tops in the league in allowing 20+ yard runs...averaging around 18 per year...

I mentioned Mark Kelso last week, Moonie pointed out that he was average at best in run support. When he played, the Bills gave up between 4 and 9 per season.

Is that all his fault? Nope..

Is he a big part of it? Oh yeah...the safety is there to keep the 10 yard run from being the 40 yard run. And I've seen him enough since 2009 to say...yeah...he sucks at preventing it..

So I turn around the question and say...how much are you willing to give up for your 3-5 Ints per year?

Does one big play every 3 to 5 games justify giving up a big play every 2?

All other things considered...maybe...

But ON TOP OF THAT do you justify not signing someone else in another position for that 3-5 Ints per year?

Forget the "The Bills don't sign good FA's" argument, because they don't sign many of their own guys through their rookie contracts or when the money gets too high.

Levitre
Clements
Lynch (traded)
Peters (traded)

About the only ones I can think of their high draft choices that were kept past their rookie contracts were Lee Evans and Wood. There is just as much likelihood of spending money on someone else as there is retaining someone...I really don't care which avenue...as long as you get your money's worth.

And frankly, I can get more than 3-5 Ints per year for $10 million.

[Mace]

For all that people get cranky about the aging Leonhard not being any good, doubling his 4 starts to match Byrds 8 makes him look better than Byrd and he's a journeyman by now in his career. Didn't even see him much the past few games and he has 1 less int than Byrd, and only 5 less tackles. Only 3 less passes defensed in starting half as many games.

Doesn't really say much for Byrd.