Earl Thomas, Jairus Byrd top list of NFL's best safeties

[Raptor]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000289608/article/earl-thomas-jairus-byrd-top-list-of-nfls-best-safeties


But of course Bills fans have spent the past year or so trying to convince themselves that Byrd isn't an elite safety so he shouldn't be paid as one .... Get educated folks, Byrd is elite and should/will be paid as such

[better days]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000289608/article/earl-thomas-jairus-byrd-top-list-of-nfls-best-safeties


But of course Bills fans have spent the past year or so trying to convince themselves that Byrd isn't an elite safety so he shouldn't be paid as one .... Get educated folks, Byrd is elite and should/will be paid as such

He already is being paid as an elite safety.

[Raptor]

He already is being paid as an elite safety.

Hahahahahahaha is the the new absurd justification now? Long term deal kid

[Meathead]

and would have been paid an elite long term salary had he accepted the bills generous but not highest of all time offer

[better days]

Hahahahahahaha is the the new absurd justification now? Long term deal kid

The point is he already is thought of as an elite Safety.

The fact the Bills & Bryd's agent could not come to a long term agreement does not mean he is not thought of as an elite safety.

If the Bills can not come to a long term agreement with Byrd in the off season, they better get a draft pick in trade worthy of an elite safety.

[YardRat]

Yeah, well, the author has Whitner rated just below the top 5, and I don't think we need to dig too deep into the archives to find a general consensus amongst Bills fans on him.

[Raptor]

and would have been paid an elite long term salary had he accepted the bills generous but not highest of all time offer

Why accept less than your worth? That's a suckers move....he knows he gets more on the open market. The Bills fail to realize that and step up

[Raptor]

The point is he already is thought of as an elite Safety.

The fact the Bills & Bryd's agent could not come to a long term agreement does not mean he is not thought of as an elite safety.

If the Bills can not come to a long term agreement with Byrd in the off season, they better get a draft pick in trade worthy of an elite safety.


Really, do a history search... That is not how he's thought of among Bills fans during the summer and September

[better days]

Why accept less than your worth? That's a suckers move....he knows he gets more on the open market. The Bills fail to realize that and step up

HUGE gamble to not take the security a long term contract offers.

Byrd still could suffer a career ending injury this year.

On the other hand, he already has millions in the bank.

[better days]

Really, do a history search... That is not how he's thought of among Bills fans during the summer and September

What was he thought of then?

The vast majority of people on this board wanted him resigned.

[YardRat]

TJ Ward is a FA after this season. Thomas and McCourty are still on rookie contracts. Berry is making 7mil this seaon, 8.5 next season, and 5.1 in '15. Whitner averages just under 4mil. Weddle averages 8mil.

Byrd might be worth around Berry/Weddle dollars, but certainly not more.

Going to be interresting to see what kind of offers Ward gets, if he isn't tagged.

[Raptor]

What was he thought of then?

The vast majority of people on this board wanted him resigned.


yea yea at a below market price because he wasn't elite according to them

[Raptor]

HUGE gamble to not take the security a long term contract offers.

Byrd still could suffer a career ending injury this year.

On the other hand, he already has millions in the bank.

betting on himself and not taking less than he's worth, smart move on his part

[better days]

yea yea at a below market price because he wasn't elite according to them

NOBODY knows what Byrd asked for or what the Bills offered.

Russ said the other day the Bills made a VERY AGGRESSIVE offer to Byrd.

NOBODY knows if the Bills offered Byrd less than his worth or if Byrd asked for MORE than he is worth.

[better days]

And as I said, If the Bills & Byrd can not come to an agreement on a new contract in the off season, I expect a HIGH draft pick in return for Byrd...............an ELITE safety.

[Skooby]

How we finish will determine Byrd's status, he's really unreplacebale & probably will rule his position for many years to come based on similar play. If we make the playoffs, Byrd will be retained as a top paid player & Mario Williams will probably offer to restructure for additional years at some unreal sum to be paid later, basically stretching our budget & forcing our efforts to maximize ticket prices at a higher level. That higher ticket price will literally help our team be that much viable to stay in Buffalo.

It's not a terrible scenario or realistic, just win baby.

[Dr. Lecter]

NOBODY knows what Byrd asked for or what the Bills offered.

Russ said the other day the Bills made a VERY AGGRESSIVE offer to Byrd.

NOBODY knows if the Bills offered Byrd less than his worth or if Byrd asked for MORE than he is worth.
Based on the Bills history on how they evaluate guys I can make an educated guess...

[Raptor]

NOBODY knows what Byrd asked for or what the Bills offered.

Russ said the other day the Bills made a VERY AGGRESSIVE offer to Byrd.

NOBODY knows if the Bills offered Byrd less than his worth or if Byrd asked for MORE than he is worth.

incorrect go to www.Google.com

- - - Updated - - -


And as I said, If the Bills & Byrd can not come to an agreement on a new contract in the off season, I expect a HIGH draft pick in return for Byrd...............an ELITE safety.


So you accept getting worse? ...noted

[Raptor]

How we finish will determine Byrd's status, he's really unreplacebale & probably will rule his position for many years to come based on similar play. If we make the playoffs, Byrd will be retained as a top paid player & Mario Williams will probably offer to restructure for additional years at some unreal sum to be paid later, basically stretching our budget & forcing our efforts to maximize ticket prices at a higher level. That higher ticket price will literally help our team be that much viable to stay in Buffalo.

It's not a terrible scenario or realistic, just win baby.


with 20+ million in cap space no one needs to restructure anything

[YardRat]

Based on the Bills history on how they evaluate guys I can make an educated guess...

So what exactly is Prez and CEO Brandon, GM Whaley, and HC Marrone/DC Pettine Bills history on evaluating guys?

[Raptor]

If the Bills had been able to lock him up they would have been already been able to get through the most expensive years with no big deals coming up....by dragging this out they have cost themselves that....very poor management of this situation

[YardRat]

If the Bills had been able to lock him up they would have been already been able to get through the most expensive years with no big deals coming up....by dragging this out they have cost themselves that....very poor management of this situation

Why are you so sure the 'dragging out' is on the team's part, and not the player/agent's?

[better days]

Based on the Bills history on how they evaluate guys I can make an educated guess...

Based on Byrd's agent Eugene Parker, I can make an educated guess as well.

[better days]

incorrect go to www.Google.com (http://www.Google.com)

- - - Updated - - -




So you accept getting worse? ...noted

I am CORRECT, no need for me to Google. I heard Brandon first hand on WGR.

And I have not accepted the Bills won't resign Byrd, but if they don't, The first rnd draft pick for an elite safety should only make them better.

[pmoon6]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000289608/article/earl-thomas-jairus-byrd-top-list-of-nfls-best-safeties


But of course Bills fans have spent the past year or so trying to convince themselves that Byrd isn't an elite safety so he shouldn't be paid as one .... Get educated folks, Byrd is elite and should/will be paid as suchYeah, I'm glad you were "educated" by a sportswriter's opinion. Maybe next you can tell us that the Bills' are one of the 5 worst teams in the league because Pete Prisco says so.

Maybe your next academic achievement is to actually graduate from clown school.

I'm used to the majority of Bills' Fans being jaded, but I'm constantly amazed at the levels of stupidity. Just when I think I've seen the bottom, someone drops it a notch to a new one.

[Jan Reimers]

Some of you guys act as if you're Ralph Wilson's personal penny-pincher, or that you're jealous, God forbid, of another professional athlete getting a fat contract. Byrd is an elite safety. If he leaves, we will have yet another HUGE hole to fill. IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY. So why not (in many of your estimations) overpay the guy? What good does it do - when we are perpetually under the cap - to let our guys walk?

[Mr. Pink]

NOBODY knows what Byrd asked for or what the Bills offered.

Russ said the other day the Bills made a VERY AGGRESSIVE offer to Byrd.

NOBODY knows if the Bills offered Byrd less than his worth or if Byrd asked for MORE than he is worth.

It was reported what the Bills offered and what Byrd/Parker wanted.

The Bills offered 7.5 per, Byrd/Parker wanted highest paid safety money, 9-9.5 per.

Byrd's worth on the open market last season was 9.5 per.

[Novacane]

I don't think the argument is he's not one of the best safeties. The argument is a safety worth 9.5 mill. I don't think so. I'd rather put that money in a different position. If they are just going to keep the money in Ralphs pocket I'd like to see him resigned.

[K-Gun]

The Bills will tag Byrd again. Neither the Bills nor Bryd want to go through the **** they went through this past year. They will work out a long term deal acceptable to both sides before the draft. Book it.

[better days]

It was reported what the Bills offered and what Byrd/Parker wanted.

The Bills offered 7.5 per, Byrd/Parker wanted highest paid safety money, 9-9.5 per.

Byrd's worth on the open market last season was 9.5 per.

Both Brandon & Parker said they were not going to negotiate through the press.

Any figures offered, are just some writers GUESS.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't think the argument is he's not one of the best safeties. The argument is a safety worth 9.5 mill. I don't think so. I'd rather put that money in a different position. If they are just going to keep the money in Ralphs pocket I'd like to see him resigned.

Well what did they do this past season?

It just stayed in Ralph's pocket.

Pay the man and be done with it.

- - - Updated - - -


Both Brandon & Parker said they were not going to negotiate through the press.

Any figures offered, are just some writers GUESS.

Because figures are never leaked? And Parker publicly stated he want top safety money for Byrd.

[better days]

Well what did they do this past season?

It just stayed in Ralph's pocket.

Pay the man and be done with it.

- - - Updated - - -



Because figures are never leaked? And Parker publicly stated he want top safety money for Byrd.

It did not stay in Ralph's pocket. Byrd was paid top 5 Safety money this year.

When BOTH SIDES say that they are not going to negotiate through the press, I doubt anything gets leaked.

[Raptor]

Why are you so sure the 'dragging out' is on the team's part, and not the player/agent's?


Team history

- - - Updated - - -


I am CORRECT, no need for me to Google. I heard Brandon first hand on WGR.

And I have not accepted the Bills won't resign Byrd, but if they don't, The first rnd draft pick for an elite safety should only make them better.


again incorrect, google and you will see why

[Raptor]

Yeah, I'm glad you were "educated" by a sportswriter's opinion. Maybe next you can tell us that the Bills' are one of the 5 worst teams in the league because Pete Prisco says so.

Maybe your next academic achievement is to actually graduate from clown school.

I'm used to the majority of Bills' Fans being jaded, but I'm constantly amazed at the levels of stupidity. Just when I think I've seen the bottom, someone drops it a notch to a new one.

Completely worthless and empty post. Maybe we can get you up to date so you can intelligently engage in a football debate. It will be a long process and unfortunate for you very little photos involved but we will, fight through it with you

So Stick around kid I'll teach you a lot about this game

[Raptor]

It was reported what the Bills offered and what Byrd/Parker wanted.

The Bills offered 7.5 per, Byrd/Parker wanted highest paid safety money, 9-9.5 per.

Byrd's worth on the open market last season was 9.5 per.


look at this someone who actually decided to research instead of talking out their ass...few people in this thread, namely one, could learn a lot from you

[Raptor]

Both Brandon & Parker said they were not going to negotiate through the press.

Any figures offered, are just some writers GUESS.


bit more than a guess, these writers didn't get to where they are by being good guessers

[Raptor]

It did not stay in Ralph's pocket. Byrd was paid top 5 Safety money this year.

When BOTH SIDES say that they are not going to negotiate through the press, I doubt anything gets leaked.


Lolol based on what? This stuff always gets leaked, it's how guys like Mort, Scheftner, ect get paid

[YardRat]

It was reported what the Bills offered and what Byrd/Parker wanted.

The Bills offered 7.5 per, Byrd/Parker wanted highest paid safety money, 9-9.5 per.

Byrd's worth on the open market last season was 9.5 per.

Nobody knows what Byrd's worth on the open market was, because that was never established. Whitner was supposed to get paid bigger dollars than he actually got, also.

If you believe Byrd's worth is best-safety-in-the-league money, that's your opinion. Mine is, he's not.

[YardRat]

Team history

Well, I'll ask you the same question I asked another poster...What exactly is the team history of Prez-CEO Brandon, GM Whaley, and HC Marrone/DC Pettine?

[Mr. Pink]

Nobody knows what Byrd's worth on the open market was, because that was never established. Whitner was supposed to get paid bigger dollars than he actually got, also.

If you believe Byrd's worth is best-safety-in-the-league money, that's your opinion. Mine is, he's not.

Dashon Goldson set what Byrd would have received. There's no way that Byrd wouldn't have been paid more. Goldson got 8.25 per.

[YardRat]

Dashon Goldson set what Byrd would have received. There's no way that Byrd wouldn't have been paid more. Goldson got 8.25 per.

Pure conjecture on your part. It isn't automatic that Byrd is worth 1.25mil per year more than Gholdson.

[Mr. Pink]

Pure conjecture on your part. It isn't automatic that Byrd is worth 1.25mil per year more than Gholdson.

It's not conjecture that Byrd is worth more than Goldson. The amount of difference might be. Even still you can't put Byrd below 8.3 with 22.5 guaranteed. Those numbers are a notch above what Goldson received.

[GingerP]

It did not stay in Ralph's pocket. Byrd was paid top 5 Safety money this year.

He is not. In terms of APY, he is 9th in the NFL:

Troy Polamalu - $9,866,667
Eric Berry - $8,340,833
Dashon Goldson - $8,250,000
Eric Weddle - $8,000,000
Antrel Rolle - $7,420,000
Reshad Jones - $7,003,000
Kam Chancellor - $7,000,502
Michael Griffin - $7,000,000
Jairus Byrd - $6,916,000

His cap number is 6th at the position this year.

People assume the franchise tag is calculated as an average of the top 5 players at the position. That was under the old CBA, it changed with the new agreement. Under the old CBA, Byrd's franchise tender would have been $9.389M, which would be the average of Eric Berry, Troy Polamalu, Antrel Rolle, Dashon Goldson & Eric Weddle for this year.

Under the new CBA, the tag is based on the five-year average cap percentage for the tag at the position. It is not top-5 money.

[better days]

Still a pretty good payday for Byrd.

[pmoon6]

Completely worthless and empty post. Maybe we can get you up to date so you can intelligently engage in a football debate. It will be a long process and unfortunate for you very little photos involved but we will, fight through it with you

So Stick around kid I'll teach you a lot about this game:rofl: Yup, my original assessment of the OP is correct.

[JCBills]

I have said this before, but I feel like this has to be a continuous process. So here it goes again:

Since entering the NFL in 2009, Byrd is 3rd in INTs over that span with 18, behind Asante Samuel at 24 and Charles Woodson/Aqib Talb at 19. Among DBs, he sits 3rd in FFs with 10, behind Charles Tillman with 23 and Charles Woodson at 11. Among all players he is tied for 8th in the same category. 28 Turnovers created in 4 seasons says playmaker. He can cover, he can hit, he can come up in run support. To be sitting just behind guys like Tillman, Woodson, and Samuel when it comes to creating big plays at just 26 years old is very impressive. I'm having a hard time thinking of a safety with as good as Byrd at his age among current players.

Honestly, for younger players at the position, no safety has been a bigger playmaker than Byrd over the past few seasons. Earl Thomas is approaching that and has a slight edge in run fit capability, but Byrd is still exceptional against the run and is an absolute turnover creating machine. We FINALLY seem to have a good scheme and a load of talent on D. Locking up Byrd, even if he does become the highest paid safety, will do nothing but help this team. For years Bills fans called Ralph cheap, now we're afraid to retain an elite talent that came up with this team? Seriously? This team is so young and talented, don't go out of your way to create holes where they shouldn't have to exist.

[YardRat]

He is not. In terms of APY, he is 9th in the NFL:

Troy Polamalu - $9,866,667
Eric Berry - $8,340,833
Dashon Goldson - $8,250,000
Eric Weddle - $8,000,000
Antrel Rolle - $7,420,000
Reshad Jones - $7,003,000
Kam Chancellor - $7,000,502
Michael Griffin - $7,000,000
Jairus Byrd - $6,916,000

His cap number is 6th at the position this year.

People assume the franchise tag is calculated as an average of the top 5 players at the position. That was under the old CBA, it changed with the new agreement. Under the old CBA, Byrd's franchise tender would have been $9.389M, which would be the average of Eric Berry, Troy Polamalu, Antrel Rolle, Dashon Goldson & Eric Weddle for this year.

Under the new CBA, the tag is based on the five-year average cap percentage for the tag at the position. It is not top-5 money.

Unless I did the math wrong, the average of the five players you listed is closer to 8.376mil

[YardRat]

I have said this before, but I feel like this has to be a continuous process. So here it goes again:

Since entering the NFL in 2009, Byrd is 3rd in INTs over that span with 18, behind Asante Samuel at 24 and Charles Woodson/Aqib Talb at 19. Among DBs, he sits 3rd in FFs with 10, behind Charles Tillman with 23 and Charles Woodson at 11. Among all players he is tied for 8th in the same category. 28 Turnovers created in 4 seasons says playmaker. He can cover, he can hit, he can come up in run support. To be sitting just behind guys like Tillman, Woodson, and Samuel when it comes to creating big plays at just 26 years old is very impressive. I'm having a hard time thinking of a safety with as good as Byrd at his age among current players.

Honestly, for younger players at the position, no safety has been a bigger playmaker than Byrd over the past few seasons. Earl Thomas is approaching that and has a slight edge in run fit capability, but Byrd is still exceptional against the run and is an absolute turnover creating machine. We FINALLY seem to have a good scheme and a load of talent on D. Locking up Byrd, even if he does become the highest paid safety, will do nothing but help this team. For years Bills fans called Ralph cheap, now we're afraid to retain an elite talent that came up with this team? Seriously? This team is so young and talented, don't go out of your way to create holes where they shouldn't have to exist.

How many of those turnovers actually affected a game's outcome, or even shifted mometum? Byrd's turnover numbers are similar to Kelsay's garbage sacks.

Once again, pure numbers don't tell an entire story. If anybody thinks Byrd's two INT's against NYJ indicate 'play-maker', I can't help you. Many of his TO's are similar.

He simply isn't a player that teams have to account for when putting their offensive gameplan together when facing the Bills. That factor alone screams 'not elite'.

[GingerP]

Unless I did the math wrong, the average of the five players you listed is closer to 8.376mil

That list is APY (Average per year) of their contracts, not their cap numbers. Under the old CBA, he would have received an average of the top 5 cap numbers are the position:

Eric Berry - $10,211,700
Troy Polamalu - $10,137,500
Antrel Rolle - $9,250,000
Dashon Goldson - $8,735,294
Eric Weddle - $8,600,000

In terms of cash paid this year, Byrd is 10th at his position:

LaRon Landry - $11,000,000
William Moore - $10,500,000
Morgan Burnett - $9,573,000
Tyvon Branch - $9,500,000
Dashon Goldson - $8,735,294
Kam Chancellor - $7,825,000
Troy Polamalu - $7,500,000
Eric Berry - $7,309,000
Antrel Rolle - $7,250,000
Jairus Byrd - $6,916,000

If the Bills decide to tag Byrd again, his tender will be $8.3M, a 120% of this year's tender.

[JoeMama]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/053ca482887a2f733_zpsb6235042.gif (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/JoeMama025/media/053ca482887a2f733_zpsb6235042.gif.html) @ homer Bills fans acting as niggardly with Ralph Wilson's coin as some haggling old used-car salesman.

Ignore those fools.

Pay Jairus Byrd. He's awesome and well worth the investment.

[YardRat]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/053ca482887a2f733_zpsb6235042.gif (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/JoeMama025/media/053ca482887a2f733_zpsb6235042.gif.html) @ homer Bills fans acting as niggardly with Ralph Wilson's coin as some haggling old used-car salesman.

Ignore those fools.

Pay Jairus Byrd. He's awesome and well worth the investment.

Pay him what, exactly? Or just pay him, whatever he and Parker wants, regardless of the amount?

[JoeMama]

Pay him what, exactly? Or just pay him, whatever he and Parker wants, regardless of the amount?

I'd make him the highest paid safety in the league. He plays well enough as makes no difference to me. And he won't remain the highest paid player at the position within a year's time. By then we'll consider him a bargain again.

I'm not some miser, feverishly lording over every copper in Ralph's penny jar like you and better days. You act as if it's your money.

It's amazing that "fans" like you would rather run off every pro-bowler that comes to town like some old man scattering children from his front yard than see anyone get paid. It's a miserable thing to read day in, day out on these forums.

If this team heeds fans like you, we'll lose another 13 years in a row. Hopefully the front office has learned the lessons you clearly haven't.

[YardRat]

I'd make him the highest paid safety in the league. He plays well enough as makes no difference to me. And he won't remain the highest paid player at the position within a year's time. By then we'll consider him a bargain again.

I'm not some miser, feverishly lording over every copper in Ralph's penny jar like you and better days. You act as if it's your money.

It's amazing that "fans" like you would rather run off every pro-bowler that comes to town like some old man scattering children from his front yard than see anyone get paid. It's a miserable thing to read day in, day out on these forums.

If this team heeds fans like you, we'll lose another 13 years in a row. Hopefully the front office has learned the lessons you clearly haven't.

Yes, because 'fans like us' have actually stated that we want every pro bowler run out of town. It isn't our fault that 'fans like you' favor over-paying for over-valued talent. We've had plenty examples of that in the past, also.

If Byrd wants to be paid like the best safety in the league, he should play like one, stats be damned. It really is that simple.

Johnson took a realistic salary. So did Wood. So did McKelvin. That's all 'fans like us' are looking for, and we understand completely (a lesson that others obviously haven't learned) that over-paying disproportionately for 'talent' is just as damaging, if not moreso, than not paying to keep them around.

Continuously falling back on the 'Ralph is cheap' lame-o shot just makes you look like a dumbass, not me.

[JoeMama]

Yes, because 'fans like us' have actually stated that we want every pro bowler run out of town. It isn't our fault that 'fans like you' favor over-paying for over-valued talent. We've had plenty examples of that in the past, also.

If Byrd wants to be paid like the best safety in the league, he should play like one, stats be damned. It really is that simple.

Johnson took a realistic salary. So did Wood. So did McKelvin. That's all 'fans like us' are looking for, and we understand completely (a lesson that others obviously haven't learned) that over-paying disproportionately for 'talent' is just as damaging, if not moreso, than not paying to keep them around.

We have no cap troubles. Player salaries trouble me not at all. And if we don't pay Byrd for his services, somebody else will.

And your opinion on Byrd is forfeit. You've painted yourself into such an irrational corner against the guy, you can't even admit he's elite.

Which is pure buffoonery.


Continuously falling back on the 'Ralph is cheap' lame-o shot just makes you look like a dumbass, not me.

I'm not calling Ralph cheap. I'm calling you cheap.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How many of those turnovers actually affected a game's outcome, or even shifted mometum? Byrd's turnover numbers are similar to Kelsay's garbage sacks.

I'm laughing at the idea of a garbage-time turnover. Except for picking off a hail mary at halftime, a turnover is stopping an offense cold. Even when one team is leading big, it's either stopping a rally and preserving the lead or giving your own team an opportunity to make one.


Once again, pure numbers don't tell an entire story. If anybody thinks Byrd's two INT's against NYJ indicate 'play-maker', I can't help you. Many of his TO's are similar.

And if anyone thinks a guy who records 21 picks and 10 forced fumbles in 68 games is just getting lucky then I can't help you either.


He simply isn't a player that teams have to account for when putting their offensive gameplan together when facing the Bills. That factor alone screams 'not elite'.

This is, or course, completely speculative BS. Any offensive coordinator who doesn't account for an All-Pro safety needs to be fired on the spot.

[YardRat]

We have no cap troubles. Player salaries trouble me not at all. And if we don't pay Byrd for his services, somebody else will.

Ah, the John Butler school of salary finance. That worked so well for us the time, too.


And your opinion on Byrd is forfeit. You've painted yourself into such an irrational corner against the guy, you can't even admit he's elite.

It isn't irrational, it's factual. I'll admit he's 'elite' when he plays like he is. Be a game-changer. Be a difference-maker. He really hasn't been, up to this point.


I'm not calling Ralph cheap. I'm calling you cheap.

Well, that just makes you look like a bigger dumbass.

[JoeMama]

Ah, the John Butler school of salary finance. That worked so well for us the time, too.

If we inch toward cap troubles in the near future, I'll be more concerned. But you're saying we can't afford Byrd now. And that's stupid.


It isn't irrational, it's factual. I'll admit he's 'elite' when he plays like he is. Be a game-changer. Be a difference-maker. He really hasn't been, up to this point.

Anyone with two eyes can see Byrd is elite. You're getting killed in this thread about his level of play. Equivocating how good play is actually bad. It's small and petty.


Well, that just makes you look like a bigger dumbass.

The opinions of fools don't bother me.

[Mr. Pink]

Ah, the John Butler school of salary finance. That worked so well for us the time, too.



It isn't irrational, it's factual. I'll admit he's 'elite' when he plays like he is. Be a game-changer. Be a difference-maker. He really hasn't been, up to this point.


The team hasn't been relevant since Butler was here so yeah, it did work at that time. Donahoe came in, got the team out of cap jail and was starting to turn it around til he hitched his wagon to a bum at QB. Teams at the cusp of playoffs or a title spend money to try and get there. Butler was spending like he was because the team wasn't far away from being a legitimate Superbowl team and might have been if it wasn't for the MCM.

Forcing a turnover basically at a clip of one every other game is meaningless to you? What constitutes elite to you then? Are you arguing that they could put anyone back at FS and they'd do the same? Considering Byrd is second to Earl Thomas, I'd suggest that that is not the case.

I'm almost at the point where I wanna see the Bills let him enter the open market just so some people will open their eyes to what kind of money a player of Byrd's caliber will command. However, his importance to this team and defense is worth more than just sticking it to people's irrational hatred of the guy.

[YardRat]

If we inch toward cap troubles in the near future, I'll be more concerned. But you're saying we can't afford Byrd now. And that's stupid.

Please point out a single post I made regarding the team not being able to afford Byrd. One. You can join the long list of others that have tried, and failed, at feeble attempts such as this. Read what I type, Joe, not what you want to see.


Anyone with two eyes can see Byrd is elite. You're getting killed in this thread about his level of play. Equivocating how good play is actually bad. It's small and petty.

Two eyes and no football brains, maybe. Two eyes enamored with statistics. I'm still waiting for a list of plays that qualify Byrd as an honest-to-goodness game-changer.


The opinions of fools don't bother me.

A fool and his money are soon parted, and we've seen far more examples of that in the past 14 seasons than we have of any that allowed 'pro bowlers' to walk.

Your stance on this issue regarding my opinion is simply built around two players in the last 12 months...Levitre and Byrd. Levitre certainly isn't worth the contract he received, but we'll just have to wait a few years for some to catch up and realize that. Neither is Byrd, if he's looking for #1 money. Unless, of course, over the last five games he proves he can be that difference maker in this defense that warrants a #1 contract.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Two eyes and no football brains, maybe. Two eyes enamored with statistics. I'm still waiting for a list of plays that qualify Byrd as an honest-to-goodness game-changer.

Against Arizona last year he picked off the ball in OT and ran it to the 6 for the game winning field goal. Against Miami, he had a pick at the 2 minutes warning in a game we won by 5. That's two wins last year alone, and it doesn't include the plays where he had bad luck - like forcing a fumble on Tennessee's game winning drive, only for the ball to get kicked out of bounds and possession to revert.

I mean, you can't even keep your definitions straight. Earlier you were saying he needs to play like he did in the Jets game to justify a new deal, now you're saying the Jets game doesn't make him a "play-maker."

You're moving the goalposts.

[YardRat]

Against Arizona last year he picked off the ball in OT and ran it to the 6 for the game winning field goal. Against Miami, he had a pick at the 2 minutes warning in a game we won by 5. That's two wins last year alone, and it doesn't include the plays where he had bad luck - like forcing a fumble on Tennessee's game winning drive, only for the ball to get kicked out of bounds and possession to revert.

Well, that's 2 out of 31. Kudos. I realize the following is slightly Wysian, but he's averaged 3 ints and 3 forced fumbles the last three seasons, and unless he picks up the pace the last third of this season he isn't going to even match that. That's hardly 'elite' if you simply want to use statistics as a reference.


I mean, you can't even keep your definitions straight. Earlier you were saying he needs to play like he did in the Jets game to justify a new deal, now you're saying the Jets game doesn't make him a "play-maker."

You're moving the goalposts.

Well, that would somewhat prove that the turnovers are more related to his ability (which many contend) than just dumb luck for one game, now wouldn't it?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, that's 2 out of 31. Kudos.

You wanted game-changing plays and I gave you some. I didn't bother to go through his entire career.


I realize the following is slightly Wysian, but he's averaged 3 ints and 3 forced fumbles the last three seasons, and unless he picks up the pace the last third of this season he isn't going to even match that. That's hardly 'elite' if you simply want to use statistics as a reference.

Well, yeah if you arbitrarily lop off his best season and then try to work off "averages" then you've skewed the averages.

If you actually include his best season, he has 21 in his first five seasons - 4 ints a season.

Troy Polamalu - 31 ints in 11 seasons - 3
Ed Reed - 61 ints in 12 seasons - 5
Guaranteed first ballot HOF Kerry Rhodes - 23 in 8 seasons - 3

So yes, 3 ints a year is elite, especially for a safety (by comparison, Revis has 21 in 7 years). At least by the standards of the guys you hold up as the guys he's supposed to be emulating. And complaining about him only forcing 10 fumbles in 5 seasons is asinine. Rhodes has 9, and Polamalu and Reed each have 11 for their entire careers.


Well, that would somewhat prove that the turnovers are more related to his ability (which many contend) than just dumb luck for one game, now wouldn't it?

You were the one holding up the Jets game as the example of how he should play before abruptly deciding it was just luck. I mean, a 3rd down sack and two INTs aren't game-changing? Does he need to play offense too?

[YardRat]

Here's something for you stat guys to chew on...interceptions and forced fumbles...

Byrd= 1 every 2.2 games
Ed Reed=1 every 2.35
Polamalu = 1 every 3.38
Ronnie Lott = 1 every 2.43
Ken Houston = 1 every 4.0
Paul Krause = 1 every 2.79
Larry Wilson = 1 every 3.25 games.

So Jairus Byrd is better than all of those listed...right?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Here's something for you stat guys to chew on...interceptions and forced fumbles...

Byrd= 1 every 2.2 games
Ed Reed=1 every 2.35
Polamalu = 1 every 3.38
Ronnie Lott = 1 every 2.43
Ken Houston = 1 every 4.0
Paul Krause = 1 every 2.79
Larry Wilson = 1 every 3.25 games.

So Jairus Byrd is better than all of those listed...right?

Byrd forces turnovers at a higher rate than them, and you can't dispute that. Does that make him better? I'll leave that to the BS arguments about what turnovers are sufficently "game-changing"

I mean, the fact that his career to date stacks up against hall of famers at the same point doesn't faze you even a little bit?

[YardRat]

Byrd forces turnovers at a higher rate than them, and you can't dispute that. Does that make him better? I'll leave that to the BS arguments about what turnovers are sufficently "game-changing"

I mean, the fact that his career to date stacks up against hall of famers at the same point doesn't faze you even a little bit?

Using only statistics as a measuring stick? Hell no.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Using only statistics as a measuring stick? Hell no.

I'm not saying you should evaluate him by his statistics alone, but when his statistics put him in company with the best at his position at all time, you can't turn around at say goofy things like "he's averaged 3 ints and 3 forced fumbles the last three seasons, and unless he picks up the pace the last third of this season he isn't going to even match that. That's hardly 'elite' if you simply want to use statistics as a reference."

If instead you'd rather base your opinion on 'Fatso & the Coach' sportstalk radio cliches, that's your prerogative. But the numbers are not on your side.

[YardRat]

I'm not saying you should evaluate him by his statistics alone, but when his statistics put him in company with the best at his position at all time, you can't turn around at say goofy things like "he's averaged 3 ints and 3 forced fumbles the last three seasons, and unless he picks up the pace the last third of this season he isn't going to even match that. That's hardly 'elite' if you simply want to use statistics as a reference."

If instead you'd rather base your opinion on 'Fatso & the Coach' sportstalk radio cliches, that's your prerogative. But the numbers are not on your side.

They are if the first season is the exception, not the norm, and inflate the numbers.

Just because I don't want the team to fork over highest paid dollars at this point doesn't mean I don't like the guy, or think he's worthless. FWIW, I hope the defense plays lights out the rest of the season, and Byrd proves to be an integral part of those performances, and proves he's worth that type of contract. He hasn't yet, to me, as he has to others, especially considering up until now there really isn't that much of a difference between how the defense has fared with him in there, or inactive and getting in game shape.

If he isn't a difference-maker, there's no need to pay him like one when that money could be spent on improving other parts of the team.

[GingerP]

Here's something for you stat guys to chew on...interceptions and forced fumbles...

Byrd= 1 every 2.2 games
Ed Reed=1 every 2.35
Polamalu = 1 every 3.38
Ronnie Lott = 1 every 2.43
Ken Houston = 1 every 4.0
Paul Krause = 1 every 2.79
Larry Wilson = 1 every 3.25 games.

So Jairus Byrd is better than all of those listed...right?

I don't know about "better than", but considering that list if made up of HOF players or players with a shot to be in the HOF some day I would say that list shows Byrd is keeping pretty good company.

[YardRat]

So...what did Byrd do today to showcase his 'elite' status?

[JoeMama]

So...what did Byrd do today to showcase his 'elite' status?

Excuse me, but did he fumble away two easy game winning drives, you petty little whiner?

This is a complaint worthy of your opinion, blaming everyone for a loss except the guys who did their jobs.

Small wonder Jairus Byrd sucks in your eyes, he can't save the Bills from themselves.

[kingJofNYC]

So...what did Byrd do today to showcase his 'elite' status?

Don't worry about it, your crusade will come to an end in a few more months when he's no longer on the roster.

Guys like Pat Williams London Fletcher Antoine Windield Marshawn Lynch are never good enough. We'll be adding Byrd to the list next year.

[YardRat]

Excuse me, but did he fumble away two easy game winning drives, you petty little whiner?

This is a complaint worthy of your opinion, blaming everyone for a loss except the guys who did their jobs.

Small wonder Jairus Byrd sucks in your eyes, he can't save the Bills from themselves.

It's not my fault Byrd didn't play up to 'elite' standards.

[YardRat]

Don't worry about it, your crusade will come to an end in a few more months when he's no longer on the roster.

Guys like Pat Williams London Fletcher Antoine Windield Marshawn Lynch are never good enough. We'll be adding Byrd to the list next year.

I've already said Williams and Winfield were two guys that should've been kept. That was a few regime's ago, though. Most people wanted Fletcher gone anyway...look up the old threads. I'm OK with FJ and CJ over Lynch atm, and there is no way we could keep all three. You forgot Levitre, and I would have liked to kept Greer and maybe Rhinehart, but nobody knows if they wanted to be here anyway.