Are the Bills inflating defensive statistics, tackles in particular?

[EDS]

Was looking at the Bills box scores and for every home game the Bills have the number of total tackles (not including assisted tackles) is always much higher than the total number of plays for the opposing teams offense. At away games, however, the number of total tackles fairly closely tracks the total number of plays.

Kiko has an impressive number of total tackles, and leads the league in assisted tackles based on the statistics on ESPN. Just wondering if there is some inflation going on by the Bills to get Kiko rookie of the year honors.

[SpikedLemonade]

I hope they are.

[jdaltroy5]

I find tackles to be a pretty useless stat anyway.

[TacklingDummy]

I find tackles to be a pretty useless stat anyway.
tackles for loss is the most inportant tackle stat.

Dareus currently ranks 100th overall, 20th for DTs. He's awesome.

[jdaltroy5]

tackles for loss is the most inportant tackle stat.

Dareus currently ranks 100th overall, 20th for DTs. He's awesome.Get over your hate for Dareus.

He's actually been pretty good this year.

[EDS]

tackles for loss is the most inportant tackle stat.

Dareus currently ranks 100th overall, 20th for DTs. He's awesome.

Dareus has been pretty good this year. That being said, he was the 3rd overall pick in an absolutely stacked first round so I always view his production through that lens. Defensive Line talent alone in that first round included Dareus, Watt, Wilkerson, Jordan and Quinn.

[GingerP]

Dareus has been pretty good this year. That being said, he was the 3rd overall pick in an absolutely stacked first round so I always view his production through that lens. Defensive Line talent alone in that first round included Dareus, Watt, Wilkerson, Jordan and Quinn.

That is kind of how I feel about him. Pretty good player, but was hoping for more from the #3 overall. Doesn't help that the next 4 picks after him were A.J. Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones & Aldon Smith. All those guys have been studs, and I didn't even mention J.J. Watt being picked 10th. He is not a bust, but it seems like they could have done more with the pick.

[jdaltroy5]

That is kind of how I feel about him. Pretty good player, but was hoping for more from the #3 overall. Doesn't help that the next 4 picks after him were A.J. Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones & Aldon Smith. All those guys have been studs, and I didn't even mention J.J. Watt being picked 10th. He is not a bust, but it seems like they could have done more with the pick.If we had picked Aldon Smith, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones or JJ Watt with the 3rd overall pick, there would've been a riot in Buffalo.

Dareus was absolutely the right pick at the time. Most people didn't even expect him to be on the board by #3.

[trapezeus]

maybe TD and coastal can get together and dismantle our defense by getting rid of the two guys who help generate the pressure that we do.

[GingerP]

If we had picked Aldon Smith, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones or JJ Watt with the 3rd overall pick, there would've been a riot in Buffalo.

Dareus was absolutely the right pick at the time. Most people didn't even expect him to be on the board by #3.

People may not have been happy with the pick initially, but I think they would get over it once seeing those guys play. I'm not criticizing the pick itself, it was sound at the time, but in hindsight they could have done better. I like Darius, but it is hard to not to watch him play and think it could could something better.

[jdaltroy5]

People may not have been happy with the pick initially, but I think they would get over it once seeing those guys play. I'm not criticizing the pick itself, it was sound at the time, but in hindsight they could have done better. I like Darius, but it is hard to not to watch him play and think it could could something better.Sure, I don't disagree.

Unfortunately the team didn't have a crystal ball though. Everyone in the NFL world thought it was a good pick at the time.

And who knows how any of those players would've played here. Dareus could be an All-Pro in San Fran or Houston and any of those guys could've flopped here.

[TacklingDummy]

If we had picked Aldon Smith, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones or JJ Watt with the 3rd overall pick, there would've been a riot in Buffalo.

Dareus was absolutely the right pick at the time. Most people didn't even expect him to be on the board by #3.

Wrong, the Bills had Pro Bowl Defensive Tackle Kyle Williams already on the roster.

The absolute right pick was AJ Green possibly even Patrick Peterson.

[jdaltroy5]

Wrong, the Bills had Pro Bowl Defensive Tackle Kyle Williams already on the roster.

The absolute right pick was AJ Green possibly even Patrick Peterson.Yeah, we had Kyle Williams and only Kyle Williams.

We also had:
Carrington
Heard
Spencer Johnson
McCargo
Stroud
Troup

Our DL was extremely weak. Green would've been a good pick and I'm sure most people would've been happy with that, but just about everyone out there had Dareus rated as a top 3 prospect.

[YardRat]

I'm pretty happy with the Dareus pick.

[stuckincincy]

Was looking at the Bills box scores and for every home game the Bills have the number of total tackles (not including assisted tackles) is always much higher than the total number of plays for the opposing teams offense. At away games, however, the number of total tackles fairly closely tracks the total number of plays.

Kiko has an impressive number of total tackles, and leads the league in assisted tackles based on the statistics on ESPN. Just wondering if there is some inflation going on by the Bills to get Kiko rookie of the year honors.

I'm sure they are pumping up the numbers. They release what they think are - higher. I remember in the n'paper here a few games ago, the CIN club giving Vontaze Burfict something like 16 total tackles, and the reporter said nah, more like 11.

SF is notorious for loading up Patrick Willis' numbers.

[kishoph]

tackles for loss is the most inportant tackle stat.

Dareus currently ranks 100th overall, 20th for DTs. He's awesome.


LOL


You really don't have a clue do you ? Do you realize that there are different types of DT's, there are DT's whose job it is, is to penetrate the line and try to make plays in the backfield. Those are the 300lb. DT's that have the most TFL. Then you have DT's whose job it is, is to clog up the line and let the LB's make plays, those are the 330 lb. DT's like Dareus. I could go on about 3-4's and 4-3's, but I suggest you start off taking baby steps, maybe with something like the book below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/kishoph/FFD.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/kishoph/media/FFD.jpg.html)

I don't mean to be rude in anyway, but when you go on and on about Dareus sucking, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. and sometimes a rude awakening is needed.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Wrong, the Bills had Pro Bowl Defensive Tackle Kyle Williams already on the roster.

The absolute right pick was AJ Green possibly even Patrick Peterson.

No, the only major mistake we made in the 2011 draft was not drafting Andy Dalton or Colin Kaepernick with the second pick. Hindsight is 20/20 but well the Bengals and 49ers have been competitive and we've been . . . well . . . the same old bills.

[Mahdi]

LOL


You really don't have a clue do you ? Do you realize that there are different types of DT's, there are DT's whose job it is, is to penetrate the line and try to make plays in the backfield. Those are the 300lb. DT's that have the most TFL. Then you have DT's whose job it is, is to clog up the line and let the LB's make plays, those are the 330 lb. DT's like Dareus. I could go on about 3-4's and 4-3's, but I suggest you start off taking baby steps, maybe with something like the book below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/kishoph/FFD.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/kishoph/media/FFD.jpg.html)

I don't mean to be rude in anyway, but when you go on and on about Dareus sucking, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. and sometimes a rude awakening is needed.

I agree, however if Dareus is the clogging type then he needs to be better. Our run D is ranked near the bottom again. Although I blame KW for a lot of that as well. He is a great DT but not a consistent run defender. But going back to Dareus, a #3 overall pick should shut down the middle consistently.

I said this in the offseason, this team needed to go after a big NT as their #1 priority in FA. They once again neglected it and force KW and Dareus to play more snaps than they should. We need a Paul Soliai, Marcus Harrison type player.

[jamze132]

We need fat bastards!

Remember when we had Washington and Adams? No one ran on us.

[TacklingDummy]

LOL


You really don't have a clue do you ? Do you realize that there are different types of DT's, there are DT's whose job it is, is to penetrate the line and try to make plays in the backfield. Those are the 300lb. DT's that have the most TFL. Then you have DT's whose job it is, is to clog up the line and let the LB's make plays, those are the 330 lb. DT's like Dareus. I could go on about 3-4's and 4-3's, but I suggest you start off taking baby steps, maybe with something like the book below.



He's doing such a great job at that that the Bills are 24th in rushing defense. Maybe it has something to do with him being consistently pushed 3-4 yards back from the line of scrimmage. He's awesome.

[Mahdi]

He's doing such a great job at that that the Bills are 24th in rushing defense. Maybe it has something to do with him being consistently pushed 3-4 yards back from the line of scrimmage. He's awesome.

TBH I don't think its Dareus fault that he isn't living up to the #3 overall pick status. If Dareus was playing as a 3 technique with a two gap player beside him he would be doing a lot more damage. He has shown that he can get into the backfield regularly, he just doesn't have the right player next to him. KW is too similar to Dareus and while that makes us tough to deal with throughout a game, especially in pass pro, it also makes us easy to run on.

Put Dareus next to Pat Williams and he would be better than Kevin Williams IMO.

[Mace]

Was looking at the Bills box scores and for every home game the Bills have the number of total tackles (not including assisted tackles) is always much higher than the total number of plays for the opposing teams offense. At away games, however, the number of total tackles fairly closely tracks the total number of plays.

Kiko has an impressive number of total tackles, and leads the league in assisted tackles based on the statistics on ESPN. Just wondering if there is some inflation going on by the Bills to get Kiko rookie of the year honors.

Not to get crazy and put the thread back on topic, but the Elias Sports Bureau tracks the stats that are reported, not the clubs. I'm not going to pretend to know why the numbers don't match but it's probably a great question to ask for a call in show or Chris Brown from the teams site.

Just don't ramble like most people do when you ask it or it gets entirely lost and you'll get a commentary on Kiko Alonso.

[EDS]

Not to get crazy and put the thread back on topic, but the Elias Sports Bureau tracks the stats that are reported, not the clubs. I'm not going to pretend to know why the numbers don't match but it's probably a great question to ask for a call in show or Chris Brown from the teams site.

Just don't ramble like most people do when you ask it or it gets entirely lost and you'll get a commentary on Kiko Alonso.

Does Elias track the stats based on their review of game/game tape or based on stats received from the clubs?

[Mace]

Does Elias track the stats based on their review of game/game tape or based on stats received from the clubs?

Best I can find is that Elias has a statistician per team watching the game, and the work is later reviewed by Elias via external network tape (the NFL occasionally changes stats) where the club tape is internal by proprietary (club) camerapeople.

It doesn't really mean your Elias guy isn't a homer and his boss isn't just disinterested though.

I guess I think it's probably a really good question.

[kingJofNYC]

He's doing such a great job at that that the Bills are 24th in rushing defense. Maybe it has something to do with him being consistently pushed 3-4 yards back from the line of scrimmage. He's awesome.

Pro Football Focus has him as the best NT in football for the month of November.

He's been good this year. Not AJ Green, not his fault. ***** about Manuel being the worst starting QB in the league per PFF.

[DraftBoy]

tackles for loss is the most inportant tackle stat.

Dareus currently ranks 100th overall, 20th for DTs. He's awesome.

And if his job was to shoot into the backfield and make TFL you'd have a point, but since its not you don't.

[Pinkerton Security]

Firstly - the Bills arent the only people tracking people's stats - if they were inflating numbers as much as is being suggested, someone would notice. Its not like the NFL just assumes all team's own stats are 100% correct.

Secondly - how did this turn into a discussion about how Dareus isnt good? He is playing well this season and anyone who says otherwise is an unreachable douche - oh wait, thats already known.

[Raptor]

Wrong, the Bills had Pro Bowl Defensive Tackle Kyle Williams already on the roster.

The absolute right pick was AJ Green possibly even Patrick Peterson.


do people realize that Patrick Peterson is by far one of the most overrated players in the NFL?

[GingerP]

do people realize that Patrick Peterson is by far one of the most overrated players in the NFL?

Based on what? He is a consensus top-10 CB, a very good ST player and even dabbles on offense. He is one of the most athletically gifted players in the league and a premier defender. He is only in his 3rd season and has already made the Pro Bowl twice and All-Pro once.

I wonder how much you watch him. He is going into the last year of his contract, and when he signs his extension will be one of the highest-paid defenders in the league. Do you think he would make that kind of money if team's thought he was overrated?